It's an iPhone, so yes. Apple is pretty insistent on not giving the user access to anything Turing-complete, thus it merely has a computer inside, no different from that set of computers doing your car's injection or setting rotation speed of your washing machine.
Tell me when I can install Perl and PostgreSQL and interact with them. Resources-wise, anything bigger than an Arduino can do so (there's a large gap between microcontrollers and stuff meant for general-purpose operating systems, the latter starting at 256-512MB ram). So all that power means nothing if you can't actually use it.
Ok, so if an embedded system can't raise a Command-Prompt, then it isn't REALLY a Computer, right? Regardless of it running a fully multitasking Unix-based OS. Right.
Oh, and all one has to do is fire up an XCode Dev. system, and you can make YOUR iPhone/iPad do things that Apple never imagined. You may not be able to distribute your creations via the iOS App Store; but you can certainly run your software on your OWN iPhone/iPad, or publish the Source to an iOS F/OSS Repository (or your own website), or you can publish a precompiled.ipa file to an iOS.ipa Repository (or your own website). Heck, you can even charge money for it.
So, just because the Development IDE runs on another system (a Mac), doesn't mean that the iPhone/iPad isn't a general-purpose computer. It is STILL "programmable" in every sense of the word.
As for "Turing Completeness", that's a laugh! Even the ARM CPU in Apple's Ax SoCs satisfies the criteria for Turing Completeness!
Computers have been just appliances for a long time now. If you're a kid, you can get a colored case to bolt onto your appliance's chassis too. Look! our GE 3892 toaster is available in a plethora of colors!
Actually, the joke's on you.
Steve Jobs' vision was that computers would eventually become "appliances". That is, something so ubiquitous that you don't even think of it as a distinct class of device. He said words to the effect of "Computers will be everywhere; but you won't recognize them as such. They will simply be a part of everyday life; universal and invisible." His Dynabook-inspired vision of the Macintosh fit into that vision.
Keep in mind that Jobs said this around 1978, when the term "Embedded System" hadn't even been invented; so it was a bit more of a revolutionary idea than it seems now that those words have come true in spades. Now we just roll our eyes and say "Of course". Because it happened.
Here's an article that talks about that philosophy.
Most of Apple's revenue now comes from what we refer to as gadgets. Business news stories now start out sentences with "Gadget maker Apple has announced that... "
China will soon flood the US market with phones at cost to build their designed in China brand names.
$350 will be the new $1100. Memory, cpu, gpu, camera lens count, headphone jack, battery hours will all be great from China at a new low price.
Apps and software will go they way of 1980's IBM on the price of its hardware.
Apple will have to design its way past China and set its own new price on design.
Make a Performa phone?
Apple never has to play the race to the bottom game. And their customer-base is never interested when they try. Remember the iPhone 5c? Plastic body. Many colors. Budget iPhone. Somewhat lackluster sales, despite the lower price.
haha... you think that mobile device fabs are utterly replaceable
No, actually, I don't.
I fully (well, at least reasonably-well) understand that the capability of specific silicon fabs are inextricably linked to the design-process of today's high-density SoCs, CPUs and GPUs.
And while I agree that even the best design is "but a dream" without the manufacturing process, it is also just as true that the Contract Manufacturers and Fab-Houses would dry up and blow away if there wasn't a steady-stream of "Designs", too.
So, perhaps it is more like a symbiotic relationship than a mutually-exclusive or even mostly-independent one.
By the way, though: I am almost certain that, even when Apple DID have their own Manufacturing in the U.S. and Ireland, they STILL put "Designed in California" on their products.
It all depends on what the definition of "Makes" is.
Does AMD make CPUs and GPUs?
The point is, Apple outsources the manufacturing process, just like AMD does. But those Ax SoCs and those MacBooks, iMacs, iPhones iPads, Apple TVs, etc, simply wouldn't exist without Apple, no more than those ThreadRippers, Radeons and Vegas would exist without AMD.
The difference is, in this scenario, as in life, Foxconn and TSMC as well as whoever AMD uses as its fab are utterly replaceable Contractors; but Apple and AMD are not.
The original Wordstar for DOS was written by one guy, in three months, in assembler.
Later, they gave the spec for Wordstar to a bunch of project manager types. Average estimate was about 20 person-years.
I really should remember the dudes name, but don't. He is a big part of the old 100x programmer mythos. ('Chuck Norris' wrote Wordstar...)
Wordperfect didn't so much stumble as halfass the GUI version. They were entrenched and their users were fast as fuck in the DOS version. Word took ALL the new casual word processor users.
Their are almost certainly still wordperfect for dos users running in dosbox, with amazing hacks installed to get printing to work.
Yes, and in my opinion, they are doing it for one purpose and one purpose only... profit!
I am not trying to ditch Apple here, I am trying to be fair and realistic.
This is what I think:
* They are moving fast towards ARM.
* They need to shun power users, since ARM will not be sufficiently powerfull for that user segment.
* They already have had a reputation for being something that only stupid or ignorant people use (dating back all the way to the one button mouse), so they might aswell boost that image.
* They want to use ARM in everything and by everything I mean laptops, phones, "smart speakers" and tablets
* They do not wish to continue making Macs, unless they can sell them as ARM netbooks, no more stationary workstations
* OSX, MacOS etc.. have changed platform before, "just like that" because they have been very cunning about seperation of layers and they use many genius tricks to do this very smoothly, something they should be proud of.. it is very impressive how they handle that
* When everything they sell is ARM, then they control everything, own CPU's, own OS's, own everything... brilliant for Apple, not so much for consumers (they go from a technical prison cell to a complete technical isolation), because it would most like mean less options for users... once again... for example.. an ARM Apple netbook will not run Windows 10, unless MS decides to go all in on Windows 10 ARM...
I don't know why I am indulging an AC; but here I go:
Considering Intel's complete lack of a game-plan, I think that anyone NOT considering alternative CPUs at this point is headed for deep disappointment.
You haven't seen what Apple can do with a 16-core ARM of their own design. I think that compute-power isn't going to be an issue. And for the price they are likely paying for that Intel detritus, they could likely afford to have a 1 sq. ft. piece of silicon, with 100 cores of their own design!
If Apple was interested in "Shedding Pro Customers", you wouldn't have seen an 18-core Xeon iMac Pro, eGPU support in macOS, a promise of a new Mac Pro (yes, I realize it's still vaporware), continuous improvements in Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro X, etc.
If they are so stupid in their ARM developments, how come they have the hands-down most powerful ARM-based SoCs in the mobile space? You do realize, of course, that they have more ARM hardware and software development experience than nearly anyone on the planet, right?
They ARE very cunning in their ability to painlessly switch platforms, on that we wholeheartedly agree.
MS is going all-out on their ARM port of Windows 10. In fact, I think they actually released it in May:
Oh, and since they already HAVE x86 Emulation (actually, JIT cross-compiling, which is exactly how Apple did their seamless 68k emulation on PPC) baked-in, it's now a no-brainer for Apple to build ARM-based laptops and desktops, and still provide Windows compatibility.
LOL the perfect apple user, not to bright; condescending and bit of an asshole. You and 13 year old girls are apples target market. Congratulations
*thud*, *thud*, *thud*... the sharp wit and piercing wisdom of your words impact and demolish my sense of self worth like bullets from a 44 magnum... Seriously though, Is that The best you can do?
Considering that one of his collections was titled Angry Candy, I'm sure he went to be angry and arrived in hell (or god-help-him, heaven) angry.
I've got everything he ever had published, except for one piece published in a 1988 Playboy (and I'll never forgive my ex for throwing that one away) and one issue of his short-lived comic.
Kaby Lake mobile "U" series processors launched January 2017.
Your reality has oddly long months, and appears to omit February, March, April, and May.
Now kindly FOAD.
Now kindly remind yourself that it is now the end of June 2018, and that 1.5 years is far closer to 2 years than one, however oddly long, month. Plan to see a 6 core Macbook Pro anytime soon? Thought not.
1 month or 5, it was STILL the most-current CPU when the MBPs and iMacs were shipped. So, what's your point, Mr. Pedantic?
As far as the 6 core MBPs go, probably October-November. Qualifying the new component and setting up CM logistics takes a little time. Plus you've gotta admit that Intel has been getting pretty spastic as to their "Roadmap" these days. That makes OEMs kind of nervous.
When the iPhone hit the market everybody went back to the drawing board and the next thing you know they're all, by some cosmic coincidence, selling phones that look like more or less exactly like the iPhone. But of course none of them copied what Apple was doing... perish the thought.
Don't get into ANY argument with LynwoodRooster or BronsCon on ANY Apple subject. They will simply supply circular logic in post after post until you give up in exasperation.
Then they will feel like they have "won", when all they have actually done is wear you out; because they both seem to have nothing better to do than debate on Slashdot All. Day. Long.
Actually, I'll blame other laptop makers. Build me something like Apple's MacBook only more upgradable and you can have my MacBook money. (For the same reason, Apple feels no pressure to upgrade its aging set.)
There is nothing "Aging" in a 2017 MacBook Pro, iMac, or iMac Pro. Those all use CPUs and GPUs that were released within 6 months or less of the models where they appear. Well, the GPUs in the 2017 MacBook Pro and iMac are maybe more like 9 months before the Macs they appear; but especially in the iMac Pro, both the CPU and GPU are REALLY fresh, and the CPUs in the MacBook Pro and iMac were only a couple of months old, too.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh, so now it's an "appliance"?
It's an iPhone, so yes. Apple is pretty insistent on not giving the user access to anything Turing-complete, thus it merely has a computer inside, no different from that set of computers doing your car's injection or setting rotation speed of your washing machine.
Tell me when I can install Perl and PostgreSQL and interact with them. Resources-wise, anything bigger than an Arduino can do so (there's a large gap between microcontrollers and stuff meant for general-purpose operating systems, the latter starting at 256-512MB ram). So all that power means nothing if you can't actually use it.
Ok, so if an embedded system can't raise a Command-Prompt, then it isn't REALLY a Computer, right? Regardless of it running a fully multitasking Unix-based OS. Right.
Oh, and all one has to do is fire up an XCode Dev. system, and you can make YOUR iPhone/iPad do things that Apple never imagined. You may not be able to distribute your creations via the iOS App Store; but you can certainly run your software on your OWN iPhone/iPad, or publish the Source to an iOS F/OSS Repository (or your own website), or you can publish a precompiled .ipa file to an iOS .ipa Repository (or your own website). Heck, you can even charge money for it.
So, just because the Development IDE runs on another system (a Mac), doesn't mean that the iPhone/iPad isn't a general-purpose computer. It is STILL "programmable" in every sense of the word.
As for "Turing Completeness", that's a laugh! Even the ARM CPU in Apple's Ax SoCs satisfies the criteria for Turing Completeness!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Computers have been just appliances for a long time now. If you're a kid, you can get a colored case to bolt onto your appliance's chassis too. Look! our GE 3892 toaster is available in a plethora of colors!
Actually, the joke's on you.
Steve Jobs' vision was that computers would eventually become "appliances". That is, something so ubiquitous that you don't even think of it as a distinct class of device. He said words to the effect of "Computers will be everywhere; but you won't recognize them as such. They will simply be a part of everyday life; universal and invisible." His Dynabook-inspired vision of the Macintosh fit into that vision.
Keep in mind that Jobs said this around 1978, when the term "Embedded System" hadn't even been invented; so it was a bit more of a revolutionary idea than it seems now that those words have come true in spades. Now we just roll our eyes and say "Of course". Because it happened.
Here's an article that talks about that philosophy.
http://www.businessinsider.com...
So, when you "accuse" Apple of making "Appliances", you are actually validating Jobs' vision of the future of computing...
Will users see a $1000 color change as still worth $1000 when $350 looks like quality?
No.
They will see the uptick in features and performance as being worth the coin.
Most of Apple's revenue now comes from what we refer to as gadgets. Business news stories now start out sentences with "Gadget maker Apple has announced that ... "
That is a complete non-sequitur.
And who is "we"?
If Samsung can do it, Apple can do it too. They're always neck-to-neck for their smartphone CPUs, just like Intel and AMD.
Actually, historically, they are at least a generation past Qualcomm.
China will soon flood the US market with phones at cost to build their designed in China brand names.
$350 will be the new $1100. Memory, cpu, gpu, camera lens count, headphone jack, battery hours will all be great from China at a new low price.
Apps and software will go they way of 1980's IBM on the price of its hardware.
Apple will have to design its way past China and set its own new price on design.
Make a Performa phone?
Apple never has to play the race to the bottom game. And their customer-base is never interested when they try. Remember the iPhone 5c? Plastic body. Many colors. Budget iPhone. Somewhat lackluster sales, despite the lower price.
So no iPhone Performa series...
Culture would includes fads and fashion.
But this is supposed to be a tech news site. Instead we're finding out if a appliance can color coordinate with our shoes.
Oh, so now it's an "appliance"?
I thought the standard Slashdot meme was that Smartphones are just little computers we carry around with us, right?
Spectacular!
Literally what you yourself wrote, and conveniently clipped out from your reply.
And with that, nothing that you say is worth addressing, because none of it can be taken as representing what you actually think. *plonk*
Oh, get me t o a doctor, fast! I don't know if I can survive the burn!
Grow up.
NO.
Hell No.
Like *Pay ME* to wear it. You know - like like.
Not unless I can fully control what it displays at any time...
Not surprising that it works in those other browsers since they are all pretty much Chrome clones.
But you will note that Safari isn't on the list; so WebKit must not be affected.
haha... you think that mobile device fabs are utterly replaceable
No, actually, I don't.
I fully (well, at least reasonably-well) understand that the capability of specific silicon fabs are inextricably linked to the design-process of today's high-density SoCs, CPUs and GPUs.
And while I agree that even the best design is "but a dream" without the manufacturing process, it is also just as true that the Contract Manufacturers and Fab-Houses would dry up and blow away if there wasn't a steady-stream of "Designs", too.
So, perhaps it is more like a symbiotic relationship than a mutually-exclusive or even mostly-independent one.
By the way, though: I am almost certain that, even when Apple DID have their own Manufacturing in the U.S. and Ireland, they STILL put "Designed in California" on their products.
Name one Apple factory. Quod erat demonstrandum.
It all depends on what the definition of "Makes" is.
Does AMD make CPUs and GPUs?
The point is, Apple outsources the manufacturing process, just like AMD does. But those Ax SoCs and those MacBooks, iMacs, iPhones iPads, Apple TVs, etc, simply wouldn't exist without Apple, no more than those ThreadRippers, Radeons and Vegas would exist without AMD.
The difference is, in this scenario, as in life, Foxconn and TSMC as well as whoever AMD uses as its fab are utterly replaceable Contractors; but Apple and AMD are not.
So, who is really the "maker"?
The original Wordstar for DOS was written by one guy, in three months, in assembler.
Later, they gave the spec for Wordstar to a bunch of project manager types. Average estimate was about 20 person-years.
I really should remember the dudes name, but don't. He is a big part of the old 100x programmer mythos. ('Chuck Norris' wrote Wordstar...)
Wordperfect didn't so much stumble as halfass the GUI version. They were entrenched and their users were fast as fuck in the DOS version. Word took ALL the new casual word processor users.
Their are almost certainly still wordperfect for dos users running in dosbox, with amazing hacks installed to get printing to work.
Rob Barnaby.
Apple doesn't make hardware - they outsource that.
Citation, please.
Yes, and in my opinion, they are doing it for one purpose and one purpose only... profit!
I am not trying to ditch Apple here, I am trying to be fair and realistic.
This is what I think:
* They are moving fast towards ARM.
* They need to shun power users, since ARM will not be sufficiently powerfull for that user segment.
* They already have had a reputation for being something that only stupid or ignorant people use (dating back all the way to the one button mouse), so they might aswell boost that image.
* They want to use ARM in everything and by everything I mean laptops, phones, "smart speakers" and tablets
* They do not wish to continue making Macs, unless they can sell them as ARM netbooks, no more stationary workstations
* OSX, MacOS etc.. have changed platform before, "just like that" because they have been very cunning about seperation of layers and they use many genius tricks to do this very smoothly, something they should be proud of.. it is very impressive how they handle that
* When everything they sell is ARM, then they control everything, own CPU's, own OS's, own everything... brilliant for Apple, not so much for consumers (they go from a technical prison cell to a complete technical isolation), because it would most like mean less options for users... once again... for example.. an ARM Apple netbook will not run Windows 10, unless MS decides to go all in on Windows 10 ARM...
I don't know why I am indulging an AC; but here I go:
Considering Intel's complete lack of a game-plan, I think that anyone NOT considering alternative CPUs at this point is headed for deep disappointment.
You haven't seen what Apple can do with a 16-core ARM of their own design. I think that compute-power isn't going to be an issue. And for the price they are likely paying for that Intel detritus, they could likely afford to have a 1 sq. ft. piece of silicon, with 100 cores of their own design!
If Apple was interested in "Shedding Pro Customers", you wouldn't have seen an 18-core Xeon iMac Pro, eGPU support in macOS, a promise of a new Mac Pro (yes, I realize it's still vaporware), continuous improvements in Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro X, etc.
If they are so stupid in their ARM developments, how come they have the hands-down most powerful ARM-based SoCs in the mobile space? You do realize, of course, that they have more ARM hardware and software development experience than nearly anyone on the planet, right?
They ARE very cunning in their ability to painlessly switch platforms, on that we wholeheartedly agree.
MS is going all-out on their ARM port of Windows 10. In fact, I think they actually released it in May:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-...
Oh, and since they already HAVE x86 Emulation (actually, JIT cross-compiling, which is exactly how Apple did their seamless 68k emulation on PPC) baked-in, it's now a no-brainer for Apple to build ARM-based laptops and desktops, and still provide Windows compatibility.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-...
So, this really isn't as hare-brained an idea as it would first seem, given Apple's mastery of all things ARM.
LOL the perfect apple user, not to bright; condescending and bit of an asshole. You and 13 year old girls are apples target market. Congratulations
So sez the Anonymous Coward, who apparently hasn't learned even the difference between to, two and too, and that Apple's is possessive.
Congratulations.
OMG you are the biggest apple fanboi waste of time on here. You warning anyone away from anyone else is the biggest fucking joke ever.
Sez the Anonymous COWARD.
Some jokes just write themselves...
LOL the perfect apple user, not to bright; condescending and bit of an asshole. You and 13 year old girls are apples target market. Congratulations
*thud*, *thud*, *thud* ... the sharp wit and piercing wisdom of your words impact and demolish my sense of self worth like bullets from a 44 magnum ... Seriously though, Is that The best you can do?
Tee hee!
Considering that one of his collections was titled Angry Candy, I'm sure he went to be angry and arrived in hell (or god-help-him, heaven) angry.
I've got everything he ever had published, except for one piece published in a 1988 Playboy (and I'll never forgive my ex for throwing that one away) and one issue of his short-lived comic.
You mean this one? :
https://www.amazon.com/Playboy... ...and these?
https://www.dccomics.com/searc... ..or is it the 5-issue "City on the Edge of Forever" Series? :
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=n...
2017 MacBook Pro released June 2017.
Kaby Lake mobile "U" series processors launched January 2017.
Your reality has oddly long months, and appears to omit February, March, April, and May.
Now kindly remind yourself that it is now the end of June 2018, and that 1.5 years is far closer to 2 years than one, however oddly long, month. Plan to see a 6 core Macbook Pro anytime soon? Thought not.
1 month or 5, it was STILL the most-current CPU when the MBPs and iMacs were shipped. So, what's your point, Mr. Pedantic?
As far as the 6 core MBPs go, probably October-November. Qualifying the new component and setting up CM logistics takes a little time. Plus you've gotta admit that Intel has been getting pretty spastic as to their "Roadmap" these days. That makes OEMs kind of nervous.
Apples 2 year behind in processors. They don't matter.
Really?
The CPU in the iMac Pro was barely off the design bench when Apple announced its use in that model.
The CPUs in the 2017 MacBook Pro and iMac were about a month old when Apple announced their use in those models.
Now kindly FOAD.
When the iPhone hit the market everybody went back to the drawing board and the next thing you know they're all, by some cosmic coincidence, selling phones that look like more or less exactly like the iPhone. But of course none of them copied what Apple was doing ... perish the thought.
Don't get into ANY argument with LynwoodRooster or BronsCon on ANY Apple subject. They will simply supply circular logic in post after post until you give up in exasperation.
Then they will feel like they have "won", when all they have actually done is wear you out; because they both seem to have nothing better to do than debate on Slashdot All. Day. Long.
>> blame Apple
Actually, I'll blame other laptop makers. Build me something like Apple's MacBook only more upgradable and you can have my MacBook money. (For the same reason, Apple feels no pressure to upgrade its aging set.)
There is nothing "Aging" in a 2017 MacBook Pro, iMac, or iMac Pro. Those all use CPUs and GPUs that were released within 6 months or less of the models where they appear. Well, the GPUs in the 2017 MacBook Pro and iMac are maybe more like 9 months before the Macs they appear; but especially in the iMac Pro, both the CPU and GPU are REALLY fresh, and the CPUs in the MacBook Pro and iMac were only a couple of months old, too.
The other Mac models, not so much...
As I said: IANAA ;-)
Thanks for the edjumication!