Well they probably hardly know or care about Konqueror.
They know about Konqueror. Some Microsoft emploeeyes are subscribed to WWW-STYLE mailing list, and I did several clarifications concerning Konqueror on that list.
What Microsoft really didn't know that they couldn't effectively block Konq from accessing MSN site.:-))
Konqueror: nope (not with default user agent, anyhow, but...)
Konqueror works pretty well with modified userAgent. I tested with MS IE 5.0/Win96 UA.
Screenshot is here
You may want also to try version with increased fonts.
You can also find my postings concerning Subject on kde-devel and www-style mailing lists.
I guess you are speaking about rendering speed, right?
Yes, Opera renders simple HTML faster than Konqueror. But it comes at the expense of quality. Opera's DOM/JavaScript is very poor. CSS support is incomplete and somewhat misleading.
Anyway, Opera is very good for *easy* sites, which were designed to run in Netscape 4.75 or even in Netscape 3. You can go to such sites and still get adecuate results.
In contrast, Konq was designed to run on much bigger number of sites, and has excellent CSS2 and adequate DOM support
I have nothing against KHTML, in fact I think it is a fine product.
But why on EARTH would you ditch something that is more mature, more sophisticated, already cross-platform..
Com'on, nobody was ditching Mozilla. But, in fact, it would be funny to see AOL and CompuServe going to KHTML instead of Mozilla/Gecko.
Anyway, I can't agree with you that Mozilla is "more mature, more sophisticated" than KHTML.
Mozilla is 3.5 years old, KHTML in fact about 1 year old. I am very much impressed that KDE developers could do in 1 year, and Mozilla - in 3.5 years. But note that development speed for KHTML is 3 times faster than Mozilla's one
(not only wrappers, or ports to small OSes), and something you are totally familiar with.
Have you ever heard of Konqueror/Embedded?
It's already in many embedded devices, including PDAs and Internet Kiosks.
So, Konq is pretty much portable. Do I need to remind you about Konq/Embedded ports to BeOS and AtheOS?
KHTML is way less stable than Mozilla, even though Mozilla isn't to 1.0 yet
Bullsh**t. KHTML is very stable. If you are not happy with some third-party JavaScript-based web sites, turn off JavaScript support. As I wrote in another posting, do not mix JS with DHTML. These are different things.
Konqueror has the best CSS2 support on the market, so far. Click on link above or here to see how W3C CSS page renders in Konq.
Compare than it to MS IE6 or other browsers.
All that and I didn't even get into the speed advantage...
Are you kidding? Konqueror starts in 3 sec. on my computer, while Mozilla needs 20-25 seconds to start!
Besides, Konq opens new window in less than 1 sec., while Mozilla needs 3 sec.(!) to open new window.
Minimize/Maximize actions are also pretty slow for Mozilla.
On some sites relatively standard javascript doesn't work and (even worse) sometimes the browser crashes because of it.
It seems to me you are mixing JavaScript and DHTML/property DOM implementations.
Konqueror has reference JavaScript/ECMAscript implementation. It works very well. DOM1 support is implemented. DOM2 support is there as well, but it is not 100% complete
If you have sites where Konqueror crashes - send bug report to KDE team. I monitor all Konq bugs, and many of them can be closed with current CVS.
2. Browsers: The GNOME project depends on Mozilla for its browser component. While Galeon makes the experience quite pleasant, page loads are still slow. In contrast, Konqueror is under heavy development, supporting both Mozilla and KHTML as its viewer component, the latter of which is its greatest strength. The W3C recommends [w3.org] Konqueror for having the most complete CSS2 implementation in the world.
Konqueror is super! Not only it is standard-compliant (CSS2, CSS1, DOM, HTML, XML) but it is amaaazing fast in rendering, startup of first window takes less tan 3sec. (and next one - less than 1 sec.), but it also can browse "MS IE-only" web sites (support document.all DOM)
Re:A great example of open-source at work.
on
Five Years of KDE
·
· Score: 1
Some people were posting on/. that KDE is running on top of Linux (UNIX, *BSD), so it's not an Operating System.
That's right - and Windows 1.0/2.1 was just "shell".
What makes KDE so different from Windows that underlying OS/paltform can be almost *everything* - from i586 Linux to Itanium to PowerPC.
> In 5 years, KDE has gone from nothing to KDE 2.2, which is an almost enterprise-quality desktop suite,
And note that platform-independence is quite important to enterprises. So KDE is really ahead of Windows for enterprisze use!:-)
Re:Mozilla is the BEST browser!
on
Mozilla 0.9.5
·
· Score: 1
> Mozilla's rendering engine is OK, though it has some problems if you don't have the right fonts installed (linux), but everything else about mozilla is bloated and useless on slower computers to say the least.
I disabled legacy (/etc/X11/fs/config) and use XftConfig. KDE and Konq can find all fonts (fully anti-aliased)
Do I need to tell you that after it Mozilla can't find my TTF and PFB fonts at all?
Yes, I know that AA support is not implemented in Mozilla.
But I don't want to edit "10 config files" just because Mozilla doesn't support AA.
> I use galeon, but think it's a shame that skipstone is so buggy, because it's undoubtedly the faster browser available for linux. Too bad it crashes once every 15 minutes...
:-)
BTW: Galeon is really nice.
Re:Not biased, just practical
on
Mozilla 0.9.5
·
· Score: 1
> I've had more stability problems with Konq than I have with Mozilla, but maybe I was using an old version.
So please upgrade first. I recommend KDE 2.2.2 which will be out soon.
Several important bugs were fixed during couple of last days (but hey, this is for sites Mozilla can't browse anyway!..)
> Another point: you argue that Konq will be the first browser a new linux user uses. What I want to know is which browser will be the last the use!;-)
There are so many happy Konq users, you would be surprised!
CSS support in Konq is Excellent!
on
Mozilla 0.9.5
·
· Score: 1
Re:How biased are you?
on
Mozilla 0.9.5
·
· Score: 1
> Gnome and KDE come with every machine, I dont know any distro which comes with just KDE, but i know a few which just come with Gnome.
Caldera comes only with KDE. Corel Linux (when it was shipping) was also coming only with KDE.
Yes, wether you like it or not, - KDE is on 90% of Linux desktops.
Plus add to this Solaris, BreeBSD, AIX.
AtheOS also has port of Konqueror.
> Konq is not powerful enough, its years behind Mozilla, and its on the level of say Opera.
Man, you are again wrong.
Mozilla is *at least one year behind* Konqueror.
BTW: Mozilla is not bad, not at all. It just progresses too slow.
Re:Its not faster than MOziilla, its not more stab
on
Mozilla 0.9.5
·
· Score: 1
Konqueror starts in 3 sec., and Mozilla - in 20-25 seconds.
And do you call this *fast*?
Konqueror *is* much more stable than Mozilla.
Konqueror *is* faster than Mozilla on startup.
Konqueror *is* faster than Mozilla in rendering speed.
Did I mentioned that Konq can browse more sites than Mozilla, plus it supports document.all (MS IE4) DOM model?
Vadim
I couldn't write better...
on
Mozilla 0.9.5
·
· Score: 1
Ah, I couldn't write better!..
Thanks a lot for nice posting:-)
Cheers,
Vadim
Re:Mozilla is the BEST browser!
on
Mozilla 0.9.5
·
· Score: 1
> Right now no Browser even compares in terms of > speed/power ratio.
> Sure its debateable that Opera is faster, But > Mozilla is more powerful, Its Debateable that > IE is more stable, but Mozilla is faster.
> Right now, in terms of speed and power Mozilla > is the BEST browser you can have.
Man, it seems you were never doing some browser testing. I do it a lot, and Mozilla (while better than MS IE in terms of CSS support) just can't match Konqueror.
Where are anti-aliased fonts in Mozilla?
(almost) one year after introduction in XFree86, AA is still not inMozilla!
Konqueror is better than Mozilla
on
Mozilla 0.9.5
·
· Score: 1
Konqueror is just better than Mozilla.
It's faster, uses less memory, and I can browse sites with Konq where Mozilla fails.
So, I don't understand what all this buzz about.
Do you need good browser? Go to www.konqueror.org
There was proposal of name "veKtor" ok koffice mailing list.
I think Killustrator respects original name, and should not be named as K+"generic word".
Discussing new name for XML-Explorer, I proposed XLuMinator. I don't know what name XML-Explorer authors selected finally. If XLuMinator is still free, why not to use it?:-)
It can be also KLuminator and even KLaminator, both of them sound good for me (while start from "K").
That's exactly what I thought about when
Kai-Uwe Sattler posted his mail on koffice-devel.
It reminds me year 1995 when Microsoft was releasing Windows95 [aka:Chicago]. There were so many reviews in press saying that new Windows is bad and buggy that many people bought copy just to see why others blaim it. Despite a lot of negative PR for MS (in 1995), it was very successful launch. And, MS should thank all negative reviewers. I still recall rumors that MS was inspiring these reviews, but have no proove.
By the way, to people who haven't tried latest KOffice 1.1beta3 - it's great. I recommend you to pickup a copy for your favourite distro and give it a run. Kword rulez - I open [MS]Word2000 documents in it without any significant problems (well, not too complex docs, but...). National language support and Unicode support are also great. I think that KWord is the next Killer App in KDE (after Konqueror).
By the way, I think we don't need to wait another 5 years to see when Koffice matured. Look where KDE2 was one year from now - it was in early Beta (very close to *Alpha* state). Now KDE 2.1.1 is pretty stable, Konqi rocks, KDE 2.2 adding new features. KOffice matures very fast, in 6-9 months you will not recognize it!
Finally: Futurepower knows future.:-)
Thanks for a nice post!
Slashdot Mirror
Well they probably hardly know or care about Konqueror.
They know about Konqueror. Some Microsoft emploeeyes are subscribed to WWW-STYLE mailing list, and I did several clarifications concerning Konqueror on that list.
What Microsoft really didn't know that they couldn't effectively block Konq from accessing MSN site.
Konqueror: nope (not with default user agent, anyhow, but
Konqueror works pretty well with modified userAgent. I tested with MS IE 5.0/Win96 UA. Screenshot is here
You may want also to try version with increased fonts.
You can also find my postings concerning Subject on kde-devel and www-style mailing lists.
And Opera kicks Konquerer's ass.
I guess you are speaking about rendering speed, right?
Yes, Opera renders simple HTML faster than Konqueror. But it comes at the expense of quality. Opera's DOM/JavaScript is very poor. CSS support is incomplete and somewhat misleading.
Anyway, Opera is very good for *easy* sites, which were designed to run in Netscape 4.75 or even in Netscape 3. You can go to such sites and still get adecuate results.
In contrast, Konq was designed to run on much bigger number of sites, and has excellent CSS2 and adequate DOM support
More info at: www.konqueror.org
I have nothing against KHTML, in fact I think it is a fine product. But why on EARTH would you ditch something that is more mature, more sophisticated, already cross-platform..
Com'on, nobody was ditching Mozilla. But, in fact, it would be funny to see AOL and CompuServe going to KHTML instead of Mozilla/Gecko.
Anyway, I can't agree with you that Mozilla is "more mature, more sophisticated" than KHTML. Mozilla is 3.5 years old, KHTML in fact about 1 year old. I am very much impressed that KDE developers could do in 1 year, and Mozilla - in 3.5 years. But note that development speed for KHTML is 3 times faster than Mozilla's one
(not only wrappers, or ports to small OSes), and something you are totally familiar with.
Have you ever heard of Konqueror/Embedded?
It's already in many embedded devices, including PDAs and Internet Kiosks. So, Konq is pretty much portable. Do I need to remind you about Konq/Embedded ports to BeOS and AtheOS?
KHTML is way less stable than Mozilla, even though Mozilla isn't to 1.0 yet
Bullsh**t. KHTML is very stable. If you are not happy with some third-party JavaScript-based web sites, turn off JavaScript support. As I wrote in another posting, do not mix JS with DHTML. These are different things. Konqueror has the best CSS2 support on the market, so far. Click on link above or here to see how W3C CSS page renders in Konq. Compare than it to MS IE6 or other browsers.
All that and I didn't even get into the speed advantage...
Are you kidding? Konqueror starts in 3 sec. on my computer, while Mozilla needs 20-25 seconds to start!
Besides, Konq opens new window in less than 1 sec., while Mozilla needs 3 sec.(!) to open new window. Minimize/Maximize actions are also pretty slow for Mozilla.
On some sites relatively standard javascript doesn't work and (even worse) sometimes the browser crashes because of it.
It seems to me you are mixing JavaScript and DHTML/property DOM implementations. Konqueror has reference JavaScript/ECMAscript implementation. It works very well. DOM1 support is implemented. DOM2 support is there as well, but it is not 100% complete
If you have sites where Konqueror crashes - send bug report to KDE team. I monitor all Konq bugs, and many of them can be closed with current CVS.
4. I'll just let the pictures speak for themselves:
Check my KDE themes or pretty new KDE mini-Themes
You troll on KDE has no basis, really.
2. Browsers: The GNOME project depends on Mozilla for its browser component. While Galeon makes the experience quite pleasant, page loads are still slow. In contrast, Konqueror is under heavy development, supporting both Mozilla and KHTML as its viewer component, the latter of which is its greatest strength. The W3C recommends [w3.org] Konqueror for having the most complete CSS2 implementation in the world.
Konqueror is super! Not only it is standard-compliant (CSS2, CSS1, DOM, HTML, XML) but it is amaaazing fast in rendering, startup of first window takes less tan 3sec. (and next one - less than 1 sec.), but it also can browse "MS IE-only" web sites (support document.all DOM)
Some people were posting on /. that KDE is running on top of Linux (UNIX, *BSD), so it's not an Operating System.
That's right - and Windows 1.0/2.1 was just "shell".
What makes KDE so different from Windows that underlying OS/paltform can be almost *everything* - from i586 Linux to Itanium to PowerPC.
> In 5 years, KDE has gone from nothing to KDE 2.2, which is an almost enterprise-quality desktop suite,
And note that platform-independence is quite important to enterprises. So KDE is really ahead of Windows for enterprisze use! :-)
My congratulations to KDE developers team and all KDE users!
Just keep it going!
Best Regards,
Vadim Plessky
> Gecko renders more websites properly than khtml.
This is really bullshit.
KHTML/Konq is really standard-compliant browser/rendering engine.
CSS2, CSS1, DOM, JS support is excellent in Konq!
Because Gecko is still not completed, while KHTML has matured.
(and don't tell me about JavaScript or DHTML/DOM0 support, most people hate JS!)
Tell me about at least one browser (except KHTML/Konq) which supports CSS2 "outline" property?
Aha!..
With Best Regards to hard-core Mozilla funs,
Vadim Plessky
(who doesn't hesitate to post under his own name, because Konqueror is really better than Mozilla)
Peter-Paul Koch did extensive testing of DOM support in different browsers, including Mozilla.
It is available here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~ppk/js/version5.html
Do you want to check exactly what glitches Mozilla has? See link above!
P.S. other browsers are also far away from perfect.
or go with Telnet and open port 80 :-))
> Mozilla's rendering engine is OK, though it has some problems if you don't have the right fonts installed (linux), but everything else about mozilla is bloated and useless on slower computers to say the least.
I disabled legacy (/etc/X11/fs/config) and use XftConfig. KDE and Konq can find all fonts (fully anti-aliased)
Do I need to tell you that after it Mozilla can't find my TTF and PFB fonts at all?
Yes, I know that AA support is not implemented in Mozilla.
But I don't want to edit "10 config files" just because Mozilla doesn't support AA.
> I use galeon, but think it's a shame that skipstone is so buggy, because it's undoubtedly the faster browser available for linux. Too bad it crashes once every 15 minutes...
:-)
BTW: Galeon is really nice.
> I've had more stability problems with Konq than I have with Mozilla, but maybe I was using an old version.
;-)
So please upgrade first. I recommend KDE 2.2.2 which will be out soon.
Several important bugs were fixed during couple of last days (but hey, this is for sites Mozilla can't browse anyway!..)
> Another point: you argue that Konq will be the first browser a new linux user uses. What I want to know is which browser will be the last the use!
There are so many happy Konq users, you would be surprised!
More details:
Features of the HTML rendering component in KDE 2.2
CSS2 support
And what professional people think about Konqueror
> Gnome and KDE come with every machine, I dont know any distro which comes with just KDE, but i know a few which just come with Gnome.
Caldera comes only with KDE. Corel Linux (when it was shipping) was also coming only with KDE.
Yes, wether you like it or not, - KDE is on 90% of Linux desktops.
Plus add to this Solaris, BreeBSD, AIX.
AtheOS also has port of Konqueror.
> Konq is not powerful enough, its years behind Mozilla, and its on the level of say Opera.
Man, you are again wrong.
Mozilla is *at least one year behind* Konqueror.
BTW: Mozilla is not bad, not at all. It just progresses too slow.
Konqueror starts in 3 sec., and Mozilla - in 20-25 seconds.
And do you call this *fast*?
Konqueror *is* much more stable than Mozilla.
Konqueror *is* faster than Mozilla on startup.
Konqueror *is* faster than Mozilla in rendering speed.
Did I mentioned that Konq can browse more sites than Mozilla, plus it supports document.all (MS IE4) DOM model?
Vadim
Ah, I couldn't write better!.. :-)
Thanks a lot for nice posting
Cheers,
Vadim
> Right now no Browser even compares in terms of > speed/power ratio.
> Sure its debateable that Opera is faster, But > Mozilla is more powerful, Its Debateable that > IE is more stable, but Mozilla is faster.
> Right now, in terms of speed and power Mozilla > is the BEST browser you can have.
Man, it seems you were never doing some browser testing. I do it a lot, and Mozilla (while better than MS IE in terms of CSS support) just can't match Konqueror.
Where are anti-aliased fonts in Mozilla?
(almost) one year after introduction in XFree86, AA is still not inMozilla!
Konqueror is the best browser you can have now.
Konqueror is just better than Mozilla. It's faster, uses less memory, and I can browse sites with Konq where Mozilla fails. So, I don't understand what all this buzz about.
Do you need good browser? Go to www.konqueror.org
There was proposal of name "veKtor" ok koffice mailing list. :-)
I think Killustrator respects original name, and should not be named as K+"generic word". Discussing new name for XML-Explorer, I proposed XLuMinator. I don't know what name XML-Explorer authors selected finally. If XLuMinator is still free, why not to use it?
It can be also KLuminator and even KLaminator, both of them sound good for me (while start from "K").
"Kstrator" sounds like "kastrator". :-)
Funny and rather agressive.
Sorry, couldn't resist to post
That's exactly what I thought about when Kai-Uwe Sattler posted his mail on koffice-devel. It reminds me year 1995 when Microsoft was releasing Windows95 [aka:Chicago]. There were so many reviews in press saying that new Windows is bad and buggy that many people bought copy just to see why others blaim it. Despite a lot of negative PR for MS (in 1995), it was very successful launch. And, MS should thank all negative reviewers. I still recall rumors that MS was inspiring these reviews, but have no proove. :-)
By the way, to people who haven't tried latest KOffice 1.1beta3 - it's great. I recommend you to pickup a copy for your favourite distro and give it a run. Kword rulez - I open [MS]Word2000 documents in it without any significant problems (well, not too complex docs, but...). National language support and Unicode support are also great. I think that KWord is the next Killer App in KDE (after Konqueror).
By the way, I think we don't need to wait another 5 years to see when Koffice matured. Look where KDE2 was one year from now - it was in early Beta (very close to *Alpha* state). Now KDE 2.1.1 is pretty stable, Konqi rocks, KDE 2.2 adding new features. KOffice matures very fast, in 6-9 months you will not recognize it!
Finally: Futurepower knows future.
Thanks for a nice post!