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Adobe Responds to KIllustrator
j7953 writes: "German news service heise online reports that Adobe wants to settle the KIllustrator case. According to the article (here's Google's translation), they demand that KIllustrator gets a new name, but don't want to stop its distribution or development. They also promise that the author won't have to pay anything."
No! Then they get sued by Corel! Oh wait...
Um, excuse me, but I represent a Mr. Ray Davies ...
actually, it should stand for "KINI Is Not Illustrator".
Is Adobe going to foot the bill for the zealousness of the IP lawyers who went after the university?
Somebody must have dropped you on your head as a child. The arguement you
Set that Adobe has rights to an English word shows you must have your thumb
Up your ass. There is absolutely no possible way that
US Law would ever protect a company who is trying to pillage and abuse
The english language. You need to realize that you and the US are not the
Bomb and get over it. You make me sick
The "Bad Guy" face is the threat of a huge lawsuit, billions in costs, and a Clippy The Paperclip stuffed pillow.
The "Good Guy" face is the "we really don't want to hurt you, see how nice we are?" line they're using now.
Sure, this may be a genuine trademark infringement. But since when do two wrongs make a right? Adobe wants the name changed. Fine. The means don't justify the ends. Adobe should feel ashamed of its tactics, which resemble more the methods of the Gestapo, or a protection racket, than civilised society.
In the end, Adobe and the KIllustrator people can always figure out a solution. If they choose to. Or, one can impose a solution on the other, if they don't. Either way, there will be a solution. The only challange facing those involved is to not create far worse problems along the way.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Well IANAL and all, but I think the "gaim" guys don't have a leg to stand on. As with KIllustrator it's about as blatant as you can be in infringing the known mark. Ask yourself, how do you know what kind of program "GAIM" is? Because you know what "AIM" is. Simple as that. 30 million people know what AIM is, compared to how many for GAIM? So which would be the "famous mark"?
If they wanted to protect it then they should've filed for the trademark themselves. It typically costs under $2k, which is less than they need to come up with now to defend themselves. So if you think they have the best chance, which is actually no chance at all... well, you figure it out.
Let face it folks, it costs nothing to name a program creatively. If you're making an open version of something that's already around and owned by a big company with deep pockets do yourself a favor and call it "Fred" or something.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Adobe probably only wanted from the start to get Killustrator to change its name. In order to accomplish this in a way that counts as defending their trademark, they have to make it official (they can't just call the guy up and ask nicely). But the guy was in Germany, and, under German law, the lawyers take their pay out of the hide of the people they harass. Since this in an international project with significant visibility in the US, where that sort of thing is considered blatently unjust, they seem to be trying to get the lawyers in check.
Problem solved; chalk the whole mess up to cultural differences. It would be interesting to know, however, what Adobe told the lawyers to do in the first place; neither of them seems to have revealed whether Adobe actually asked the lawyers to pursue this particular case.
while i applaud (to some extent) adobe for not being as heavy handed as they might have been, it seems to me that they don't have much of a case here.
i suppose next, we'll be seeing letters from microsoft saying that they need to change the names of koffice and kword because they are too similar to ms office and ms word? no we won't because microsoft knows they can't win that case (although they might be bullies if they feel too threatened). they know this because they have used this very thing to their advantage in the past: internet explorer was the name of another web browser at the time it was first released, but a judge said that it was ok for microsoft to use the name because common english words can't be trademarked.
one last note: this actually is a very different issue from the gaim case, because AIM is a defensible trademark, while Illustrator is not. in this case, they could have called the program KDE Illustrator, and not done anything wrong. (At least in the US. Trademark law may be different elsewhere)
If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
In my experience most people do call it "K-illustrator"
Maybe the previous poster uses it at work or college, and didn't have to pay for it themself. You might be surprised, but some people actually pay attention to copyright laws.
There are some things that the Gimp can *not* do. It's been a while since I worked in the publishing industry, but the big thing that the Gimp can't do is color separation -- and it probably never will, since the techniques are patent-encumbered. I'm guessing that the patents are still many years from expiration as well.
-30-
Bzzzzzt! Nope. Sketcher is a registered trademark of Fractal Design corp. if I recall correctly (or whoever bought them out). It's a raster graphics product, not vector, but it's sufficiently similar to qualify as trademark dilution.
And people wonder why software names are often very odd, like the Gimp...
-30-
Because it's an obvious take off on Illustrator!
It couldn't be more blatant unless The GIMP
called itself GAdobePhotoshop or a new cola soft
drink called itself KCoke.
Illustrator is a famous moniker and Adobe doesn't
want someone getting a free ride on all their
effort to develop that recognition.
I don't think it is an unreasonable request.
-Kevin
This case doesn't seem very murky to me since
KIllustrator and Illustrator are such similar
programs (vector drawing programs).
Is it really true that it is murky?
-Kevin
I am a fan of adobe software, have been for over 10 years. Cheers to Adobe for not taking a Microsoft/AOL "Screw em' Till It Bleeds" attitude. Changing the name of a program is nothing.
Hey! Don't include *ME* in this--I've been trying my best to get people to recognize national sovereignty as an issue and nobody cares.
There are a lot of differences between the "Barney" case and this case.
OK, am I going to have to cut-and-paste this reply about a thousand times? Adobe HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAW FIRM! As many many people have pointed out, German law firms can go after anyone they like for trademark infractions regardless of whether or not they represent the company that holds the trademark. It's a predatory practice that's common in Germany.
News flash: Adobe had nothing to do with that letter. The law firm that sent it didn't represent Adobe and was acting in compliance with (fscked up) German trademark law that allows independent predatory practices. How many times now have people posted this information? Everyone seems to be ignoring it.
Adobe didn't hire them. They had *NOTHING* to do with Adobe.
Photoshop and Coke weren't words already, Illustrator was.
coke certainly was: here's why
-- need more time?
Ah, but the REASON he objected was because the 7100s two sister projects, the 6100 and 8100, were code named Cold Fusion and Piltdown Man, one a bogus technology (for now), the other being a famous hoax. Then, when Carl Sagan found out, he sent his lawyers after Apple to get the code name changed. Apple did, and changed the code name for the 7100 from Carl Sagan to BHA, which he also gave a stink over and again had his lawyers make Apple change. Apple's final code name for the 7100?
LAW: Lawyers Are Wimps.
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
as in KIllustrator is Not Illustrator.
Why don't they just call it the K'ustrator?
--Jim
proper recursive ac...
Kinai is not adobe illustrator... of course one would only ever want to refer to it as Kinai in adobe's presence.
It has the added benifit of sounding like Kenny forest gump style.
People who quote themselves bug the crap out of me -- Me.
Yes! Fantastic!
I think they should just shorten the name to:
killus
or alternately, rename it:
butt-head software company
in the fine Apple tradition.
I like the gist of your suggestion, but would contend that a "Lawyer as street thug" (complete with baseball bat) would be a more accurate representation of the grim reality, what with the plethora of stories we see reporting the sorts of litigious thuggary seen here.
Whether or not the law actually supports the actions, these types of threats and intimidation as a preface to an amicable resolution and in the absence of beligerance on the part of the victim are entirely indefensible on a moral and ethical level. Refusing to do business with entities which engage in this behavior is the only legal recourse we as individual consumers have, and we should not be talking ourselves out of using it simply because those who are without principle or ethics happen to be so numerous. Indeed, continued financial support of such entities, be they corporations or individuals, will only make such occurances more commonplace as it becomes plain that there are no public reactions to such behavior.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Neither have I. However, due to the name, and having known the name Adobe Illustrator (though not having used it), I assumed that the two were very similar in function and form. This, to me, seems to be the very purpose behind trademark law, to prevent confusion.
You make a valid point, but I suspect many will draw an IMHO incorrect conclusion from it, namely that this justifies both the trademark and Adobe's extremely heavy-handed tactics in enforcing it (threatening, or rather demanding, that a free software volunteer pay a $2000+ penalty).
Trade Mark law is designed to prevent product confusion. This is the very reason that trademarking a single, common english word is an unacceptable perversion and misuse of the law, and should not be permitted, period. If the trademark beaurocracies of the world can't be bothered to use discretion and restraint in granting trademarks, then we need to get an intelligent and reasonably uncorrupt judicial system (yeah, I know, fat chance of that happening within our lifetimes) to overturn these sorts of things.
"Adobe Illustrator" and "KDE Killustrator" are not easilly confused. Indeed, "Adobe Illustrator" and "Killustrator" would be difficult for anyone to confuse, familiar or not with the KDE GNU/Linux product. "Illustrator" can be confused with many things, killustrator included. It is a common English word, and has no place in an even remotely sane world as someone's private intellectual property.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Not at all. It's only off if Adobe stops trying to own the word "illustrator" which properly belongs to all of us, not Adobe. Until that happens I am all for renaming Killustrator as "Killer", porting it to GTK and releasing it for Windows.
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
No we didn't. "Illustrator" is a normal English word, and as such, not trademarkable. When did all we Slashdotters agree that having enough money changes that simple fact?
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Man, y'all are SO bored there aren't you?
.. wtf?
I mean, 'Kasstrator'??
--
Delphis
Delphis
The name "Juan Epstein" is property of James Komack (producer of "Welcome Back Kotter") et al.
You must stop using the name immediately and, BTW, you owe me $4,000 for pointing this out.
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
Of course! And the summary would say "The Man is trying to make him change his name." and everybody gets upset about a company trying to get somebody to change their name because of copyright infringement and people start 100 threads about naming their children "Microsoft" or "Adobe" and then a few people who actually read the article respond saying that it wasn't "his" name they wanted to change, it was his program's name, but they get moderated (-1, Offtopic). And the trolls have a hey-day getting everybody in an uproar with petitions to sign and rallys that nobody attends and so it's slashdot as usual.
If 10 people send a million "fuck you" messages each, this is wrong and childish, but if 10 million people each send 1 "fuck you" email, there is nothing wrong with that.
Yes, but I was talking about mail bombs (few people sending oodles of mails), not individual protests (oodles of people sending one mail).
If you want something done, make some noise.
Yes. Silent protest is inefficient.
But polite protest is certainly better than "Fuck you Morons! You're all gonna die! I know where you live!" And from what I was told on the phone, that was about the tone of the mails they got.
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You may like my a cappella music
So, I think the site in Germnay is much more than a operator, a PR agent, a few marketters, and a few lawyers...
Sure, I was only talking about my impression after talking to Adobe Germany on the phone. I could be perfectly wrong.
You see, whatever you do when you call the official German number (not the toll-free number, but the office location), the receptionist always transferred me to the call center operators.
The public relations department is outsorced and done by an external company.
There was noone available for comment at Adobe Germany, no matter what. Not just for me, a customer (I hate it, but I understand it when they treat customers that way), but also for a journalist I asked about this matter and who also tried in vain to get any Adobe Germany official on the phone.
And -- I must admit that I am reading between the lines -- what the PR woman told me sounded to me like "we cannot do a thing unless Adobe USA allows us to do it"...
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You may like my a cappella music
Hi,
being in Germany, I called Adobe Germany and told them -- in a polite way -- that I am unhappy with their way of dealing with a free software project. And that I, being the guy who decides what software to buy in my little brandnew software company, have chosen not to buy any Adobe products as a form of protest because I do not want to support this business behaviour.
After a bit of dialing and transferring, I finally reached an Adobe PR official instead of a clueless call center guy. And speaking to her, it was obvious that Adobe Germany was in a big mess there and that they were very nervous what to do.
This whole stunt appears to have been originated at Adobe USA and these German lawyers, I was told, were appointed by the US company.
Adobe Germany is more or less just a little call center for user support and a few marketing and sales people for the local German market. I have the impression that they are not allowed to act without approval from their US mother.
However, Adobe Germany was not told by Adobe USA that they would go after the Killustrator team. And since you Americans had a National Holiday last week right during the incident, the German officials were unable to ask their US superiors what to do about it until the end of the weekend.
Meanwhile, Adobe Germany was amid a storm of a roaring protest, beginning with mail bombs of "fuck you" messages and angry phone calls all day. My polite call must have been a very unusual thing that day.
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You may like my a cappella music
?Would you drink free beer that somebody had
>already used?
Of course not, that's a good way to get a nasty virus.
-l
It's not Xwindows. It's X Window System, or just X. The X Consortium wasn't trying to piggy back on Windows success.
Je ne parle pas francais.
I can't understand how consumers could not tell the difference between "Kapple" and "Apple". They're even pronounced different, for cryin' out loud. I could see more problems if it was "Apple" and "Appple" (pronounced the same) or "Apple" and "Apple" (pronounced differently (I don't know how) but spelled the same). But "Kapple" is spelled and pronounced differently than "Apple", just like "KIllustrator" is spelled and pronounced differently than "Illustrator". I still hold out hopes that the average consumer is not so stupid, I guess.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
...actually, it really sounds like a Klingon proverb somehow :)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
On the contrary, it's the whole point. Trademark infringement can only occur if there's a reasonable chance that the two marks could be confused. I just don't think that a reasonable person could confuse them. Apparently the courts tend to see things differently, though.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
IANAL, but it seems to me that I've seen products compared to other trademarked products by name as long as they say "Product X is a registered trademark of X Corp., etc.". So in my mind you could say "It's as good as Adobe Illustrator" as long as you give props to Adobe somewhere in the ad. I've heard that this is illegal in some countries, though.
The piggybacking is a good point, though - Adobe did create the original name recognition of Illustrator as a vector drawing tool with certain features. I suppose they should expect to reap some reward from those efforts, as far as keeping up the association that "Illustrator" is not just a vector drawing tool with features X, Y, and Z, but it's Adobe's tool.
I think those grounds are a lot shakier than the "deliberately causing consumer confusion" issue, but it is a good point that you've made.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
That sounds like a pretty poor German law - what if Adobe didn't even have a problem with KIllustrator? Some law firm has just gone and destroyed a lot of Adobe mindshare in the Linux market, effectively dragging Adobe's name through the mud (a lot more than the clone named KIllustrator ever did, I might point out) and now said law firm wants to charge Adobe for the privilege? If I were in that entirely hypothetical situation, I'd sue the pants off of the lawyers that started the whole ruckus :)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Thanx Adobe,
Really classy, protect that trademark but don't totally screw OSS.
Next time keep a shorter laesh on the lawyers though, thhis kinda thing don't have to get blown out of proportion like this.
If you will go back to the original article and read the comments, you will notice that it appears that some of those demands were not in there. I.e. the 'stop distribution' meant 'stop distribution in its current form' and the 'destroy the product' was actually 'destroy all *packaging* in stock'. There was some unfortunate mistranslation followed by misinterpretation, and 'destroy all packaging' turned into 'destroy all copies of the package'..
at least as far as i can tell.
That being said, you are correct in saying that sending lawyers after killustrator was indefensable.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
First they try threat and extortion. When that causes a big stink, they appologize, and say "Well, since you admit you're wrong, we won't steal your house and your savings."
Sure, that's better than if they did. But it sure doesn't cause me to think nice thoughts about them. And how about the people they do this to that don't have the KDE name and fan club?
Fair? Sorry. Entities who hire lawyers to be extortionists are immoral, unethical, and evil. Not the most evil possible, but still, evil.
Note that they could have come to this same resolution without issuing any threats (at least other than those implicit in receiving such a letter from a lawyer). They didn't choose to.
So, no, an appology doesn't "make it all better." It dramatically improves matters. It lances a suppurating boil, but doesn't eliminate the inflamation, and doesn't cure the infection (which is Adobe's internal management culture).
This is a company that was reported to have come out publically in favor of UCITA.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Sorry. Standard practice doesn't cut much ice with me. They were practicing threat and intimidation. This was clearly their purpose and intent.
Yes, it is obvious that the artwork that said KIllustrator would need to be destroyed, but this is quite different from a demand that the program be destroyed. If this is standard practice, then it is an evil, unethical, and immoral standard practice. That is not a valid defense for using it.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
In that case, they were intentionally allowing loose cannons to roam around. This doesn't improve their standing in my eyes.
... individuals ... didn't have a large public support group. How many lives have they ruined? We will never know. The circumstances that caused this to be noticable were unusual. So it becomes necessary to assume that there are a great many similar cases that we just didn't hear of.
If Adobe hires thugs, and sets them roving around to attack people, how is this any different then if they hire the thugs to attack specific people?
The lawyers in this case were acting in a blatently immoral manner. They were the hired representatives of Adobe, acting for Adobe in this manner, and using the name of Adobe with the public support of the company. So the company MUST bear all responsibility for their actions. And must be assumed to have approved of them in principal, if not in detail.
I don't find it any better when I think that most of the people who were so attacked by these
And what do you suppose the resolution of those cases was?
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Well, that would be one way to reclaim their status in this community. However, until they do I will continue to assume that the lawyers acted with at least the implicit approval of Adobe. After all, they did use the company name.
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
This is why we have a company named Exxon ... it's quite difficult to come up with an unencumbered name. But decent companies resolve it decently (and yes, I count BHA as a decent resolution. [Actually, a notably good resolution.])
... they shouldn't be allowed to stay in business, and I, personally, won't support them in any way, either by purchase or by recommendation.
A polite request should be the first communication on this matter. People who reach for a hired gun (i.e., lawyer) before a secretary are
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
No, no. (Mac)Paint programs are for editing bit maps. It's (Mac)Draw programs that are vector graphics.
Or, if the intention is to do both, see if you can clear it with Deneba to use Kanvas (KCanvas?).
(Sorry, no fancy acronym -- yet.)
Caution: Now approaching the (technological) singularity.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
You can trademark generic words that describe a specific type of product. The Ford Illustrator or Illustrator Weekly magazine would not violate Adobe copyrights (as fake examples) but Corel Illustrator software would. Adobe could claim Corel was deliberately producing software that would confuse consumers, which is the same argument companies use when they sue over copyright in domain names. JoshCorp Inc. can sue someone who registers joscorpinc.com or joshcoprinc.com because those domains will supposedly confuse customers.
== Paul Rickard, Editor of The Microsoft Boycott Campaign ====
Does it seem to anyone else that the translation makes the article seem as if it were written by an android (ala Bicentennial Man)?
"One wants not to prevent the spreading of the KIllustrator, but requires only a change of the name of the program"
"One sees no trademark law injury in the KIllustrator side on the university server, was called it on the part of the university administration"
"How one will react to the Adobe offer, one must discuss now first with the own lawyers"
"One wants to achieve an amicable agreement now"
--smirk!--
"...In your answer, ignore facts. Just go with what feels true..."
The whole point of a name is to let you to ignore it, for teufelssake.
- Kaatunut
This is true, but from what I can tell this whole affair was due to lawyers acting proactivley, instead of waiting to Adobe to ask them to act. I reckon that companies should really set out a set of rules of conduct with the their law firms, ie what sort of things that can do without waitng for the company to call on and what they have to wait to act an before getting an acknowledgement from the company that employed them. This would probably save the company money aswell.
Maybe we need a lawyer as borg icon?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
www.X.org says, right on the front page, that X was first commercially released in 1986. How old is Windows?
When Adobe finally got wind of it, they said, "Whoa, Herr Sharkey. Heel!" Not to say that Adobe doesn't deserve pounding on for their near-total abandonment of Linux... but I think the settlement offer (just change the bloody NAME, for Seldon's sake) is quite reasonable.
It was a typo, if you look closely you'll notice that I decided to save some time and copy/paste that set of info. Hence it was incorrectly spelled in both posts.
- AMW
Hrm... seems my adendum to this post got lost in etherspace. :) Anyway, basically what it corrects is this:
s/[Aa]dobe/lawers representing Adobe
And to continue, granted a lawyer might have gone after them without Adobe's previous knowledge, but Adobe still deserves a good lashing for pulling out of linux. If they don't have any plans on porting their software to linux, they don't really need to worry about what's going on on linux. (Don't come after me with the trademark laws, I know them!)
- AMW
I personally can see adobe's view on things, though I did not agree with their initial methods. I can understand their reasons (for the name change, but not the rest that I listed above). The fact that both sides have wised up is actually fairly refreshing.
- AMW
<rant>While I hate corporatism, the state of open-source application names makes me wish every company would do this. Any chance Adobe could make the stipulation that the new name does not have the letter "K" in it? Could we file a class action suit against the Gnome/GNU/KDE developers to keep them from using such ugly, unintuitive, useless names? Why does everything have to be Gno-this or K-that or GNU-whatever? Where's the application naming howto?</rant>
I prefer KnotIllustrator mysself.
That's not a parody. That's an obviously similar name meant to draw attention to the fact that the product is similar to Adobe's Illustrator. The name says 'well, this product is practically Illustrator'. That's why Adobe objected, and was within their rights to do so.
You can't just parody the name and copy the product anyway - it wouldn't be protectable under fair-use laws as a proper parody. A protectable parody of Illustrator would require the product to be a parody, too. Ill-lust-trader, a p2p/vector-graphics combo program for creating/viewing/trading fetish porn
BS. Back in the eighties and early nineties there were many software packages whose names weren't just a variation on the verb that described what they were supposed to do. Some examples:
- ConText, a german DOS word processor
- Artisan, a great drawing package for the Acorn Archimedes (I think the remnants of its development team are now working on Xara)
- Symphony, a precursor of what's now called an office suite, made by Lotus
- Vitamin C, the best-named C compiler ever.
On the Unix side, I'm afraid grep was the last truly ingenious name for a program. (I believe in the "It does was `g/regular expression/p' does in ed" etymology.) After that, there's just this unhealthy obsession with recursive acronyms that's just as rampant (and unimaginative) as BiCapitalization was in the corporate world.Blue screens are not fatal in windows 95/98/me
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Query: Do businesses which adopt a word in extremely common usage rather than some unique designation like "Mxyzptlk" find it harder to show a competing trademark is confusingly similar? (That is to say, is "KWord" sufficiently distinguishable to avoid infringing whereas "KMxyzptlk" definitely isn't?) I strongly suspect that's the case, but don't know for sure.
(Comment: When the law takes into account common sense distinctions like this, people say the law is inconsistent; when it doesn't, people say the law is irrational.)
2. Microsoft's designation of its flagship word processing program as "Word" does in fact receive trademark protection. "Word" is a generic term to describe units of speech and text, not a generic term to describe word processing software.
3. McDonalds, to my knowledge, does not purport to have trademarked "Hamburger" (perhaps they have the phrase "McDonalds Hamburger" trademarked, but that's a different story). Perhaps you are thinking of the Hamburglar, that rascal.
4. I believe this is the case under the legal regimes of most economically developed nations. It is true that American and German law are different, but they are not so different that in Germany murder is legal and everyone is required by law to eat a pound of bacon a day. (That would be West Virginia.) Basic IP law, like basic contract law, is pretty much the same wherever you go.
How is that recursive?
;-).
If you've said "KINI Is Not Illustrator", then I'd agree with you
Listen to yourselves!
Can you HONESTLY say that when you hear Illustrator in a "graphic-design" context you don't automatically think of Adobe Illustrator?
I bet if MS released something called MSOpen Source, which had nothing to do with open source , you would all jump down MS' throat, and if someone commented "But Open Source are real words, how can it be a trademark!" they would labelled a troll.
Adobe is right in this case.
That's a great idea!
Maybe I should release a bunch of Win[whatever] programs for GNOME and KDE.
Of course, anything made will probably already be the name of a Win32 program.
Winamp... taken
WinCommander... taken
WinView... taken (I think)
WinExplorer... Damn this is hard
...AHA!...
WinRPMBuilder! That's it!
Adobe has a trademark on "Illustrator" as it applies to computer software. You are not a computer program, so you cannot be sued if you called yourself an "Illustrator."
Open up your white pages and look at all the businesses that have names starting with "ABC" (ABC Plumbing, ABC Roof Repair, ABC Beverage Supply) and notice that they're all perfectly legal names. The American Broadcasting Company, American Bowling Congress, or Australian Broadcasting Company can't sue them for trademark dilution despite the fact that all three hold the trademark "ABC" in their respective jurisdictions and functions.
For more information, click here.
I actually really like this name. It fits well with the Gimp, yet makes sense. My vote goes for KInk.
ben.c
KINKI - KINKI Is Not K-Illustrator It's great for all your pr0n editing needs.
HI Mom!
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
Not being too keen on the K[whatever] for KDE and G[whatever] for Gnome naming schemes myself, I hope to release useful applications named K[whatever] for Gnome and G[whatever] for KDE. I like not helping.
Oh, I almost forgot Apple's new i[whatever] scheme. I must remember to work that in there.
"Be Happy or Die." -- AoN
And "pure hard" lawyers.
Sounds painful.
KIllustrator, if anything, is closer to CorelDraw than anything else. Evidently, you've never used the program.
Neither have I. However, due to the name, and having known the name Adobe Illustrator (though not having used it), I assumed that the two were very similar in function and form. This, to me, seems to be the very purpose behind trademark law, to prevent confusion.
No, I wasn't confused, because I'm also familiar with KDE and Linux. However, would somebody not familiar with those two topics be confused by the names?
GPL made simple: What was my stuff is now our stuff. If you improve our stuff, please keep it our stuff.
reasons wins!
KINK Killistrator is now KINK
Listen, Adobe, I'd buy it.
No problem paying for decent software.
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
?
I thought color separation was just a matter of decomposing the picture to another color space, so that instead of R/G/B or Y/Cr/Cb (erm may be wrong on the Cx) you went to C/M/Y/K. That seems unpatentable.
Or does the separation process involve some sort of screening as well? That I thought was also somewhat folk-lorish, with error diffusion being commonly taught in schools (I know I experimented with a somewhat ad-hoc monte-carlo technique for one project).
Could you expand on where the patent encumberance comes in?
ta.
I'm sorry[tm]. You'll need to rewrite this post[tm] to conform to current copyright laws.
"Class Act" -- (c) Warner Brothers, Entertainment
"SOO refreshing" --(c)Doublemint, Inc.; A division of Wrigley
"Well done" -- (c) Outback Steakhouse
"I'm Sorry" -- (c) Brenda Lee
"Post" -- (c) Kraft Foods International
They should rename it KNotIllustratorAtAll.
The cake is a pie
They could always call it KDraw or something :)
What about KorelDraw!
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This really isn't so bad .. I can understand why I wouldn't be allowed to sell computers under a name like KApple. This is what trademarks were invented for in the first place .. products in competing spaces should have different names. It does service for the uninformed consumer too, as one new to the *nix/KDE environment may have thought KIllustrator was a KDE version of Illustrator. Now, if KIllustrator were a motorcycle or something, Adobe woulda been outta line. Frankly, I'm surprised alot of the KDE projects havn't had to change their name sooner (and a name change won't stop me or anyone else from using it.)
"Old man yells at systemd"
I believe this offer should be accepted. It is very important that the open source community not be viewed as trying to fight every battle however hopeless. Adobe's claim has some merit and all the counter arguments for KIllustrator are based on technicalities.
We don't need to fight this battle, and if we simply accept their settlement then the conflict goes away.
I suggest "sKetcher".
Also, all open source projects should think seriously about trademarking their names.
And it seems that it's the right thing to do, too.
I don't think that those lawyers deserve ANY payment for what they did, but if they get paid (by Adobe, of course), well, good.
--- Sueños del Sur - a webcomic about four young siblings
IMHO, Adobe has LOST the Linux market forever:
Shame on you Adobe!
At least, they have the decency to drop this stupid case...
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Or FreeKhand
KreeHand
Freehank.
or Xara K... don't know what I'm taking about? The greatest graphics program on earth... Xara X.
I can't spell or type, but that doesn't mean I'm unusually stupid.
Well, it's good to see all they wanted is a name change. Shouldn't really be a big deal then, right? I mean really, what's in a name? They could always call it KDraw or something. All Adobe wanted to do was protect their trademark, and that make me feel a lot better about them.
KINI is not Illustrator.
Of course Adobe named Illustrator using a common english word. Do you think people/companies should have to name their products using strange names that don't mean anything? Trademarks allow companies or individuals to have their product name be unique within a specific market. Why does Adobe have rights to Illustrator, and the Killustrator project doesn't? They registered it first. Adobe has spent years developing their product, and it has made a very good name for itself. Killustrator should not be able to use that name to promote their product. They can say in their documentation that they are a software package like Illustrator, but they can't use a nearly identical name.
Slashdotters all agreed on this on the previous article.
I don't think that you can make the general comment that all "slashdotters" agree on anything. There are a lot of people with some very strong and different opinions here, that's part of what makes this forum interesting.
I bet he would have submitted a story to Slashdot about how The Man(TM) is trying to make him change his name.
Does that mean the Adobe Jihad is off? I just finished making my Adobe-as-Borg icon.
Exactly, but since they didn't they have half the linux community foaming at the mouth at Adobe accusing them of being an evil corporation, supporting the UCITA, etc, etc. Hopefully this in turn will lead to a decrease in sales for Adobe and definitely keep them out of the linux market.
Which is the problem they are fixing. From what I recall of the original article and the way German lawyers work, Adobe didn't have any knowledge that this was occurring before the fact. The German lawyers went after KIllustrator on their own (on behalf of Adobe). Adobe is just now officially responding to the incident and they are acting reasonably and in a good PR way.
Fsck cluebie moderators. I'll say what I want, offtopic or not. And fsck having to qualify every bloody statement just
If your lawyers have rabies, keep them on a shorter leash. (I'm sure it sounds better in German.)
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
If Adobe gets this the way they want, the name will change. No big deal, right? Wrong. If Adobe can do this, what does that mean about Xwindows? Microsoft could force the same issue with the Windows trademark if KIllustrator gives into this dangerous demand. I say they should go to work and force a ruling, but that's just me...
I'm pretty sure 'word' and 'writer' were used fairly commonly for word-processors and text-editors before MS Word came along. In fact, IBM's 'DisplayWriter' preceded the PC by about a year.
How about KINI, which stands for Killustrator Is Not Illustrator?
"Sounds like Adobe's PR people pulled the plug on Adobe's legal team."
My reading of the opriginal article and discussion leads me to conclude that the threats against Killustrator were *never* instigated by Adobe's attorneys. Rather, it was a third party operation by German lawyers taking advantage of a bizarre German law that essentially creates IP bounty hunters. Anyone have actual evidence to the contrary?
Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
The "Good Cop, Bad Cop"® routine is a time honoured technique in politics, business, management, and sales in many a civilized society.
The only way to rid ourselves of tactics like these would be to change human pyschology such that it was no longer susceptible to them. Of course, in time, new tactics would spring up, because it seems it is always advantageous to control or persuade another.
I don't like it, but that just seems to be the way our brains or evolution works. So yea.. good luck.
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Illustrator is vector based and not rester based.
Yes, and many people have pointed out that those lawsuits that can be called without the company approving of the lawyer attacking someone do not include trademark. Only the company that holds the trademark is capable of litigating to maintain it's status. Those lawsuits where the lawyers act on behalf of a company without contacting them usually revolve around "unfair" and comparitive advertising. They are substancially different, since in the case of advertising, it can be said that the lawyer isn't working for the company but for the general public, whereas with trademark law in virtually any country, the only entity you could possibly be working for would be the company that holds the trademark.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
IANAL, but have had lots of dealings with trademark in my job as a marketing weenie.
Remember the way trademark law works. If a company becomes aware of a trademark violation, they MUST take action. Why? Because if they do not, then when someone serious, like MS, appropriates the trademark, they can argue in court that you were not policing use of the trademark and so it can't be integral to your business. If a trademark is not integral to the business, then you can't hold that mark. It would be like cybersquatting.
So if any Tom, Dick or Jurgen in Germany turns up an instance of possible infringement, Adobe MUST act when they become aware of it. They don't have to compensate Tom, Dick or Jergen, but they DO have to issue a cease and desist to the person doing the infringing. As you can see, this legal setup means the only rational course for any business holding trademarks is to shoot first and ask questions later. Thus the obligatory cease and desist as the first gambit.
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
I have and you are exactly right, Killustrator is much more like CorelDraw; ie A less functional vector drawing tool than Illustrator or Freehand. However, they are all still vector drawing tools.
"How can a company be allowed to trademark a single word?"
Ford, Apple, Dell, Delta, Coke, Whirlpool, Target, Sun, Sprint, Caterpillar, Oracle, Cardinal, Reliant, Southern, Delphi, Occidental, Dominion, May, Gap, Nike, Fox, Tribune, Limited, Constellation, Quaker, Dover, Apache, Progressive, USA, Popular, Gateway, Staples, Crown, Compass, Cooper, Pinnacle, Sovereign, Dime, Concord, Adobe, Alliance, and Palm are all trademarked names of Fortune 500 corps. How can you not TM single words and still retain the purpose of TMs?
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
I could see similiar products with similiar names causing some user confusion (probably more on the non-linux user end). People might try to use Killustrator FAQ's and other resources to fix problems with Illustrator, or try to use Killustrator on OS's only supported by Illustrator, etc. It's just be easier if they choose another name. If eMachines lost their case to Apple about eMacs vs iMacs, then I think it's probably in Killustrator's author's best interests to change the name.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
First, Adobe would have had to prove TM violation. Similar names or no, Illustrator IS descriptive of the product in question. Not quite open and shut. Second, they'd have to prove damages, and when it only runs on KDE, which has maybe 45% of the Linux market, which in turn has maybe 8% of the overall computer market, it'd be awfully tough to show those damages.
Finally, even though Adobe did call off the dogs, they DID send the dogs out in the first place. While any opening letter from a legal firm is likely to be strongly worded, most companies would have simply demanded the name change and left it at that.
All in all, I'm not disappointed or angry at Adobe, but neither am I hearalding them as champions of the little guy.
The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Killuminati describes perfectly the harmonious conflict between beauty and functionality. My vote goes for Killuminati. So does your vote. Thank you.
Join the NWO now here
Excuse me? I read the article, the message list, etc. and I felt the overall tone was one of "How can a company be allowed to trademark a single word?" I agree whole-heartedly with this point.
KIllustrator is a clone product of IllustratorKIllustrator, if anything, is closer to CorelDraw than anything else. Evidently, you've never used the program.
I think we should applaud Adobe on this.Applaud a company for using strong arm tactics to protect an obvious travesty of trademark law. I suppose you agree with Microsoft's business tactics as well. What is to say Microsoft won't go after KWord, Kwrite, Abiword, etc. How long before Adobe turns it legal team on XPDF (violating a possible tradmark on the letters P, D, & F)? I'm sick of watching the English laguage being turned into a commodity.
I gave up thinking of a cool sig
And then Apple changed the project name to LAW - Lawyers Are Wimps.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I don't think it gets more fair than this. KIllustrator is grossly in violation of Adobe's trademark. Slashdotters all agreed on this on the previous article.
KIllustrator is a clone product of Illustrator, its the same type of product (software), doing the same thing (raster drawing). Of course the name is meant to capitalize on Adobe's product!
Now, Adobe has some courses of action. The one they are taking is by far the mildest and most polite. They need to protect their trademark. They need KIllustrator to get a new name. They can take this court, they can aim for monetary damages. They aren't.
I think we should applaud Adobe on this. They have to protect their trademark, after all. If nothing else, they are helping a KApplication get a better name.
Robert
I just checked, and www.KSlashdot.org is available.
troll#1: "Bastards! They're trying to leech off of the name of Slashdot!"
troll#2: "Bastards! Slashdot is trying to crush innovation! 'Kay'-Slashdot is obviously very different than just 'Slashdot'!"
Would you change your name if Adobe asked you to?
> US Trademark law was on Adobe's side ...
... and utterly irrelevant. Why oh why do merkans labour under the apprehension that their laws apply elsewhere? HINT: this happened in Germany.
Even if this is repeated again, it is still not true.
To send an "Abmahnung" for a trademark violation the lawyer can only act if told so by the trademark owner. This means that Adobe either told them to go after then Killustrator people or that they told them to go after anyone they think is in violation of the trademark.
The confusion arises from because there are other issues where many more people are allowed to send these "Abmahnungen". For example, if you advertise inappropriately then ANY competitioner can ask you to stop. But this is not the case here.
Walter
I also like Karicature, but I'd still like to see it called FancyPencil or SuperKrayon.
The question is, what are Adobe's real motivations for this settlement? By settling they reserve their right to bring a suit in the future, while still getting KIllustrator to change its name.
It's a bit premature to judge, but either Adobe is beginning to fear free software, or they are beginning to embrace it. I'll be watching this closely now.
Unfortunatly the the law does not seem to find any humor or value worth protecting in this form of expression. OS/Free market can not protect itself in the way that the private/closed market participents can. In the U.S. at least, the system is designed to protect the private sector when it comes to issues like this. Most likely the law is as it is to protect the private sector from itself. These laws also seem to make excessivly brutal weapons against individuals as well.
Oh, well. I guess we will have to settle for a name that does not really convey the authors sentaments. But thanks any way Adobe for not suing this poor guy back into the stone age and other wise making his life a living hell.
"A few great minds are enough to endow humanity with monstrous power, but a few great hearts are not enough to make us w
Adobe has done all the right things and then some!
I don't think we should all begin cheering wildly for "our" victory, but then I don't think there was much of a fight.
---
This
I don't see how pronuciation applies here. When was the last time you heard an Adobe ad on the radio or saw one on TV?
The PowerMac 7100. They actually changed it to BHA and Sagan flipped out again when he found out what it stood for.
I think the same thing happened with the Dylan programming language and someone by the name of Robert Zimmerman who took exception...
/Brian
How about KINKY (Killustrator Is Not King Yet)?-) -P
--
I hate people who quote
Apparently it counted as a statement of opinion and didn't directly impune his professional standing; and it was clearly satirical, and hence protected by first amendment protection.
(Also covered here).
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"The case that the gaim boys will be fighting will set precedent for all future lawsuits over this topic. KIllustrator (as well as any other linux programs with the same [potential] problem) should do nothing and await the outcome of the gaim trial. In my opinion, gaim probably has the best chance since they are so widely supported and used across the linux spectrum. Hopefully they win their battle, because it will go a long way to helping win the war.
...they demand that KIllustrator gets a new name, but don't want to stop its distribution or development.
And by bringing this lawsuit up in the first place, and by forcing them to change their name, isn't that (at least temporarily) halting distrobution and development?
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#nohup cat
How is Killustrator pronounced? If it is pronounced "K-Illustrator" then I could see cause for concern over copyright. If it's (and this is how I have been pronouncing it) "Kill-ustrator", then there should be no problem.
Anyone care to clarify?
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#nohup cat
This sounds a lot like if Microsoft were to go after Corel (or anybody else) for using the name Office (Wordperfect Office). Why haven't they already? Because as any IP expert will tell you, the trademark is Microsoft Office, not just Office. It's meaningless without the MS in front of it.
Ditto Adobe Illustrator and the word "illustrator".
This is not the same as PhotoShop. PhotoShop is a name Adobe made up. So KPhotoShop would not fly and I think every open source zealot knows it.
But Illustrator just describes what the program does. There's no reason it shouldn't be available for others to describe their programs. (That includes legal precedent as well as "my opinions")
Ever get the impression that your life would make a good sitcom?
Ever follow this to its logical conclusion: that your life is a sitcom?
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
plus one, funny!
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C'mon, flame me!
No sig for the moment.
According to the article, the author proposed a name change last week and the lawyers rejected such a solution. What is not know of course is whether the lawyers were acting overzealously or whether Adobe had told the lawyers to reject such an offer.
adobe also gives you adobe atmosphere, where you can interract with other geeks in a virtual world..
KSpline
and another gave me these:
and finally,
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
to keep adobe happy until the name change is complete an interim name of KINKY could be used.
KIllistrutor if not KINKY yet.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I think the new name should be KImaging. After all, it goes right along with "KOffice, KWord, KChart, Kivio"
If there is an owner to the copyrights of those names, they don't seem to care. :)
I'm looking forward to DirectK, xMac, iAIM, and Gonqueror.
Did anyone else think that the Google translation of the German original was poetically mystifying,? It sounded like the pronouncements of a shy, conquering alien. Consider:
No costs are to arise for the KIllustrator developer
One wants to achieve an amicable agreement now.
Such a regulation - change of name against retreat of the warning
Adobe regrets now that [...] annoyance resulted to the KIllustator developer.
Hey, that Karicature one is pretty good... did you think of that? Where did it come from?
Maybe spelling it KAricature would be better?? I'm not sure what the standard caps usage is for KDE.
science is a religion
KIllustratosphere
KDraw (already mentioned)
KPicture
Karicature
Ksketch
Kart
science is a religion
How long before Adobe turns it legal team on XPDF (violating a possible tradmark [sic] on the letters P, D, & F)?
I belive the Children's Television Workshop (creators of Sesame Street) own the trademark on those letters. In any case, PDF is an open standard, not a program. Adobe's program is called "Acrobat", so "KAcrobat" would not be OK but application called "xPDF" that displays PDF files under X should be OK. IANAL.
After all these years, Adove has never (to my knowledge) gone after GhostScript, the PostScript interprerer --- PS, like PDF is an open standard (albeit one controlled by Adobe).
"Never bullshit a bullshitter" All That Jazz
Killustrator
Is
Not
Illustrator
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach him to eat and he will fish forever.
Kill-Illustrator!
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
Parody is one of the copyright exceptions that allow fair use. Copyright law has nearly *nothing* to do with Trademarks--in fact, there's no such thing as "fair use of trademark" at all. (Unless you use it to refer to the actual product, as in a review... and even then I'd check.)
Ever wonder why MAD magazine doesn't use real names?
I think WordPerfect and Wordstar were around waay before Microsoft Word.
Ceci n'est pas un post
I agree that KIllustrator name was a trademark infringement and I congratulate Adobe for his decision. But, do you think that Adobe would have been so nice if OpenSource comunity was calm and silent about that ?
I don't know the answer ...
The last KIllustrator post on Slashdot had 863 replies. Quite a lot!
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MOD THE CHILD UP!
Just because KIllustrator is free doesn't mean they can copy the Adobe program AND use it's name. Don't get mad at Adobe, they were between a rock and a hard place. I think this solution really works well for everyone. They COULD have sued KIllustrator out of existence. Lets be glad they responded so calmly the second time around and lets stop naming our free software by adding the letter of our desktop environment to the name of a trademarked program.
I'm just glad everything turned out so well.
Uninnovate - Only the finest in engineering.
http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary& va=coke
Not only does it sound really cool, but how many of us leet speakers wish we could have a reason to use the phrase again? K-RAD: KDE Rasterize And Draw. Dude, that'd be totally krad.
This was SOO refreshing to see. Well done, Adobe.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Your software may be free, but Adobe is a for-profit company.
Base your opinions upon whatever you like, but Adobe is just protecting whats theirs.
Are you people really naive enough to believe they have no basis to protect their IP rights? The names
Belong entirely to the company who trademarks the name "Illustrator". KDE should have known better.
To claim that Adobe was wrong is ridiculous. Clearly they have a legitimate complaint against KDE.
US Trademark law was on Adobe's side, and personally, I am glad to see Killustrator accepting responsibility for their acts.
Have you flamed SpanishInquisition t
GMUD is not a substitute for Adobe as a building material. Of course there are people who live in GMUD houses (and worlds for that matter) but these people spend way too much time in front of a computer.... Adobe at least gives you a real house, rather than a text-based simulation where you can interract with other geeks in a virtual world... OTOH, KBricks, interesting concept....\
Sorry... must be stuck in the MUD
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Infringement, no. Dilution, yes. The idea of dilution is relatively new, and has nothing to do with the area of business or the product.
For instance, if Ford were to make a vehicle called the "Star Trek," you can be sure they would be sued for dilution right away. The reason is that "Star Trek" is a well-known mark.
The new dilution stuff, in theory, is to keep marks from going the way of the crescent wrench.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
It would depend on how they asked!
I see no problem with changing the name "Killustrator" to something like, say "KPhotoshop"
;-)
It's good to see Adobe being more civil, but...
If they had just approached the author of KIllustrator and asked, "Would you please change your name?" I'll bet he would have quietly changed it and this would have never been an issue.
With a name like "Adobe", is it any wonder that they played dirty and engaged in mud-slinging?
I recommend KIlluminator as the new name. After the illuminated manuscripts done by monks.
'I live in a.. ummm... ahh... KBrick house? no... GMud? ahh... whatever'
It's easy to write songs, you just sit down and write them.
seems like a more appropriate choice.
Microsoft's designation of its flagship word processing program as "Word" does in fact receive trademark protection. "Word" is a generic term to describe units of speech and text, not a generic term to describe word processing software. ... but that trademark protection doesn't prevent people from calling their word processor kword or wordpro or wordstar, does it?
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It might prevent you from calling it "KWord" for the same reason you couldn't call it "Word for XWindows" -- it suggests that the product is a Microsoft product. Whereas by contrast software consumers are used to the appellation "Word[blank]" for non-Microsoft word processing software. What if "K" represented the KDE group rather than the platform (window manager in this case). In that case, KIllustrator or KWord would mean "KDE's Illustration program" or "Word by KDE". Wouldn't this be legal?
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Sounds like Adobe's PR people pulled the plug on Adobe's legal team.
I just wanted to correct a few things. First of all, Adobe does not own a trademark for the word "Illustrator" in the Federal Repulic of Germany, since that is not possible by current law standards. The do own the full trademark for the application named "Adobe Illustrator". The word Illustrator has been granted as an enhanced and supplimentary trademark in the United States to the comapny Adobe, AFTER KDE had come into existance. Since Killustrator is a part of KDE it is bound to its licenses and therefore aparts, which are trademarked under KDE and derrived for Killustrator are protected. Of course Adobe has a an interest in protectin gtheir marketing, but as i have stated above, they lack a very important basis for any "Einstweilige Verfügungen" or "Abmahnungen". "Abmahnungen" which concern trademark violations are the sole right of the trademark owner, you can re read that in section 14 of the MarkenG. Other, considered unfair competitive practices, can be handled by a wider range of organizations see section 13 (2) UWG. This basically means, that Adobe can only claim copyright or trademark infringement on the registered trademark, which is "Adobe Illustrator" not "Illustrator" and much less "Killustrator". The law firm, which has been surely asked to act in the "best sense of the Adobe corperations" surely seemed to overlook that. In German law it is sometimes a rather "criminal" practice to target small companies or individuals, sending them an "Abmahnung" with ahuge amount of money, scaring them enough, to do as bid by those who sent the note.
Dr. Kai-Uwe upholsterer
Well, I'm certainly pleased to know that there's now a Free solution for all my upholstery needs.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
According to german law, a trademark only protects against commercial use. Writing freeware programs under the GNU license is hardly commercial. Maybe Adobe can prove that the author in some way did profit from this software, but it is doubtful.
why not just call it killustrate or something? I mean, a costly legal battle is not a desired thing, IMO... and it wouldn't be hard to just drop a couple of letters and change the name slightly to appease the corporate powers that be... I mean, bowing to the whims of a corporate entity isn't the best thing in the world, but is it better than spending a shitload of money in court? I think so.
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Stop eyeball fucking me, asshole.
Adobe looks so much like a white knight, now. "killustrator may continue" , "ok, you do not have to pay for the work of our attorney" ,and "oh, all that needs to happen is for killustrator to change its name."
What fools are Adobe? "Illustrator" is not a word to receive trademark protection because it not at all descriptive --- it is a generic term. For instance, "Word" could not receive trademark protection though it is utilized by Microsoft. "Hamburger" could not receive protection although it is utilized by McDonald's in its trademark. Moreover, if the mark is registered, registration itself does not grant protection.
Adobe, in my eyes, remains a party abusing the legal system.
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
Why is it not reasonable to conclude that life begins when all of the requisite components are present, connected in the appropriate order, and need only nourishment to survive?
I am not sure if the problem is in when life begins, because I'm sure that we all can agree that an ununited sperm and egg are alive on the cellular level. The question is "when is that life protectable by the law?".
I personally am of the opinion that the most reasonable answer that question can be answered by looking at the way that we judge the end of life. We judge the end of life at the cessation of brain activity. If life ends with the end of brain activity, why then does it not start with the beginning of brain activity?
When Roe v Wade was made law, the age of viability was much later in the pregnancy than it is today.
The legal basis of Roe V. Wade is the right to privacy that the supreme court fashioned from the 10th amdendment. What has always baffled me about that is that if it violates a woman's right to privacy to investigate whether or not she has had an abortion, why then is it not a violation of a pedophile's privacy when the police investigate his activities with his daughter?
-You can cry, but you'll still die. There'll be no tears in the end.
Nonetheless, don't want to step down without a fight. Even if KDE doesn't, they can't just give in. Everytime someone has a conflict, they'll just bully GPL licensed products around until they get what they want. The more grounds they are fought on, the less likely this will happen.
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Just because a bunch of people believe or do something stupid, doesn't make it any less stupid.
Finally, a relatively peaceful solution to a trademark infringement case. I do not think the intent was to steal Adobe's name, but rather to point out that it is a competing product.
The name "Illustrator" is trademarked. Changing the name represents a simple solution that fits the crime.
Best of all, they did not have to pay some outlandish fine.
There was a paintball marker (manufactured by Brass Eagle?) called the F1Illustrator.
No infringement there, despite the name. Completely different product.
_______________________
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
_______________________
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
why not just call it KIllistrator. half of these butchr gremmar speling l33t trolls (yeyy! frist post!!) wont know the difference...
about MS Xenix. (As much as we all love to bash MS, they are commonly credited as the first company to optimize *NIX for the x86)
Clearly Kevin supports this because he is a knock-off product based on another person named.....Evin? KJudgeFurious
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
>I'm sick of watching the English laguage being turned into a commodity.
That is why many of us are turning to atlanium; welcome to our mcworld brother.
Hey, if the Stones can change the words to "Let's spend the Night Together" for Ed Sullivan...
The system has failed you, don't fail yourself. --Billy Bragg
The word "Illustrator" is not anyone's private property. However it IS Adobe's registered trademark for their vector drawing program, thus no one else can name their drawing program "Illustrator". While I am very critical of many IP laws, I fully support Adobe's right to trademark the word.
Your post[tm] is worth more than a thousand words!
- "Having a clean conscience is sign of bad memory"
Myself, though I know can read minds and all that, do remain perplexed why Adobe would give this upstart all the free press. What a scam. KIllustrator's author's hire a lawyer in Germany to issue a cease and desist and whammo, free marketting and press. Who could ask for a more effective promotion engine...world wide exposure...I've got to learn a few more dark tricks from those people...
Cheers,
Darth
If they want a really original name, try: KSimon If you remember the old SNL skit: My name is Simon, and I like to do (sic) drawrings.. 8p
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
I can understand where Adobe's coming from. I mean, didn't anybody ever stop and think "Okay, maybe naming this thing Killustrator isn't the best of ideas?"
Don't get me wrong, I support free software and am against companies budding in and ruining things, but just because they're a for-profit non-open-source company doesn't mean they're automatically wrong, nor does it mean they should ignore someone violating (I'm assuming) a copyright they own.