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Mozilla 0.9.5
agotneja writes: "Check out mozilla.org for details :) Another fine (hopefully!) release." For whatever reason, 1.0 still seems really far off.
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... until people start feeling grateful for 0.9.5 ;)
.9.5 now, but .9.4 is sweet.
Or call it "one point oh beta minus initial release testing phase DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON use at own risk edition, AKA 'only 4 more points'"
At any rate, I'll grab
Tim
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
... " DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON use at own risk" is not to say that it's actually risky :) In fact, I find Mozilla (recent nightlies) closer to crash free than most other software I use, certainly on a per-hour browser, since I spend most waking hours in it of late.
...
:) Greetings to all from the KongreBhalle :)
I just mean, if the "one point zero" is that important, maybe the wrong things are being evaluated. I bet every release is tempting to call one point zero, but Hey, aren't "point zero" releases supposed to be unstable / expected-to-be-updated anyhow? When 1.0 comes, wait for the "why only 1.0?!" flame
Mozilla developers, please ignore silly number flames.
timothy
p.s. time to break in 9.5 in Berlin
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Somehow it broke from 0.9.3->0.9.4...
I really like those new "Opera-Style" Features. And of course the new one is a bit more stable.
But the E-Mail Client is still something to work on (stability/speed), I like KMail a hundred times better... maybe in the next version...
X
Boycot? Blackout? Subscriptions?
I don't care!
> Press Ctrl+T to open a new tab. (Bug 101973.)
It looks like they copied this feature (together with the shortcut) from Galeon.
Changelog:
* The History and Mail&News applications now allow you to reorder columns with drag and drop. For instance, if you prefer to have the date listed first in your mail thread pane, drag the Date header onto the Subject header and the Date column will move to the first position.
* Warnings in the JavaScript console now show the text of the offending line.
* Venkman, the JavaScript Debugger is now available in complete installer builds. Remember to choose 'complete' install, instead of 'typical'. Start the debugger under the Tasks/Tools menu or from the command line with mozilla -venkman.
* Mozilla has a new experimental Tabbed Browsing feature. Press Ctrl+T to open a new tab. (Bug 101973.)
* People who like tabbed browsing may also like the mozilla gestures add-on, Optimoz now available at mozdev.org.
* SOCKS proxies (both v4 and v5) can now be used with all protocols (Bug 89500) except MailNews. Using socks with MailNews is covered by bug 44995.
* Mozilla has a new Site Navigation Bar for navigating sites that use the element (like Bugzilla buglists.) Choose the menu item View | Show/Hide | Site Navigation bar | Show As Only Needed to make the toolbar show up automatically when you visit pages that use the element.
* The View Source window now has a context menu with items for Find, Copy, and Select.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Anyone know when/where RPMS will be released?
just a heads up for anyone else out there letting OS X monopolize their time like i have been. omniweb is nice, but so unfinished it makes mozilla look like oracle, Opera beta 5.0 b1.327 rocks very hard, but is just a weeeee too scandi-alien for my tastes - oh and it quits at the first sign of trick xml.
(yeah IE 5.1 is rock solid... but it makes me feel so dirty...)
Does Mozilla include SSL or will it ever include SSL for accessing secure sites?
What options are out there for use on *nix platforms that allow people to access secure sites?
Adrian.
Right now no Browser even compares in terms of speed/power ratio.
Sure its debateable that Opera is faster, But Mozilla is more powerful, Its Debateable that IE is more stable, but Mozilla is faster.
Right now, in terms of speed and power Mozilla is the BEST browser you can have.
However if any Mozilla coders are reading this, what needs to be done now to make Mozilla even better, is to start intergrating tools into it, I know all the people on their 486s will scream "BLOAT" But this is what the average user wants, not the average geek.
By intergration i mean, why not tie winamp into Mozilla itself in the same way flash and quicktime are tied in so when someone clicks on an mp3 file the embeded winamp loads and plays it.
Intergrate ICQ + AOL into mozilla all on ONE list, I dont mean jabber but i mean OFFICIAL clients, Mozilla afterall is owned by AOL.
This sounds like feature bloat and yes it could be, but Most windows users have ICQ open and Mozilla open wasting vast amounts of ram, Intergrating these tools in a good way would be nice.
Mozilla also needs better memory management, I know its fast now, its as fast as it can be, but it seems they have stopped focusing on improving the speed, I say they should keep trying to make it as fast and as optimized as possible, this is for the linux using crowd, and the geeks, We want it to be fast and use LESS ram yet remain powerful. Difficult yes, but theres still room for improvement.
Some other features i want, when i download an mp3, or a file, i want to actually SEE it on the desktop or directory its downloading, i dont want to download it to a temp directory and then transfer, Some people like to open files before they are 100 percent complete, such as mp3s.
Last but not least, better and more intelligent cache, I know mozilla is fast right now, but some of us have broadband connections, while our browser is sitting idle we should have an option to allow pre caching of entire websites while we are reading that long article.
Once again, when more people get broadband it will be more important to pre cache websites by downloading BEFORE people actually click it, this gives them the illusion that things are faster because they dont have to "wait" for a page to load, its already loaded. For people on 56k i can see why they might complain, but please put some broadband options into Mozilla.
Theres alot of features i like, but Mozilla needs to be more innovative, I dont think its good enough for them to go around stealing all of IEs features, taking the old Netscape features, and stopping there.
Example, the password remember feature is nice, when i log into hotmail it gives me a list, but what if i dont want someone looking to see all my user names? How about auto complete in the username section to fill the username when i type "Han(autocompleted) HanzoSan and password autocomplete for people who cannot remember their password fully.
Thats just one useful feature that they COULD do that no one else has done. will they? I doubt it but maybe someone is reading this and will add some of these features.
Mozilla is the best browser, but in order to stay the best they need to innovate not copy Opera, IE, and others.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
What I like best about Moz 0.9.5 is its better support for the tag. It's really about time the more browsers started to actively support this tag considering its great utility and vintage.
I don't like trolls and mod against me if you like, but I'd prefer if you'd reply.
Think SPEED
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I want to see the Mozilla team create NEW features, I tried to give some ideas, such as username and password autocomplete, another thought would be a shielded password and username autocomplete which uses stars to hide both the username and password.
This way someone looking at your keyboard cant look at your hands and see your password because its set to autocomplete.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Anyone else getting freshmeat.net coming up all wacky?
:/
Its mostly ok, but the top horizontal bars are like 10 pixels thick instead of 1
I mentioned earlier username and password auto complete.
This would also be a userful feature because
A someone looking at your hands would have no way of knowing your username OR your password
and using some sorta shielding via
stars, both the username and password could be hidden, all you'd have to do is type the first 3 letters of the username and it auto completes.
Would also be useful to be able to type in a password for say, auto login, you type in your password and now every one of your username and passwords auto completes automatically and logs you in.
This way you only have to type in a main password and it turns on an auto login feature, but if you dont know this, then its turned off so if more than one person used your computer.
I suppose its almost like the passport idea from Microsoft but i see it being useful even if not safe.
Still sounds better than passport.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
SSE enhancements or whatever else you get from using the P4.
If you use precompiled binaries, then its not specifically for YOUR machine, so it could be slower, sometimes its fine if you find one compiled for the P4, or for the Athlon, but usually you dont know what its compiled for, you just see i686, so someone could have compiled this on an athlon and you are on a P4, no speed benifit!
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Seems like OS X is constantly a late release, if it gets released at all. Note that this doesn't just apply to Mozilla. Now, I know there are lots of people out there who will say that it is because OS X (stinks, sucks, fill in your description of choice), but all I can say is that it rocks, especially when compared to the "Classics" not to mention winders. Mebbie the OS X sucks crowd just hasn't tried 10.1 yet.
Seriously, though - I have ran up against problems like a screwball linker in OS X just as much as the next guy. But how many broken versions of, say, GCC have been released? I have to say that it must be due to a bunch of dedicated coders that any OSS works at all - and it works great! But I'd like to see the dev community work more on this platform. Just my 2c.
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
here was a really good comparsion table of all important browsers before:
"Reason: Please use fewer 'junk' characters." *grmpf*
Boycot? Blackout? Subscriptions?
I don't care!
Let me know when it compiles out of the box on OpenBSD then I'll believe that it isn't a horrible product.
As is now, there's a million ways for a webmaster to crash Netscape6/Mozilla, and I'm sure more than one of those bugs will allow arbitrary file execution (meaning it doesn't mesh with OpenBSD in the first place).
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Netscape is owned by AOL, Most Mozilla staff are Netscape staff.
Aol owns the staff thus they own Mozilla.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
stability speed and power are all ratios.
Having too much speed and not enough stability is a problem.
Having too much power and not enough speed is a problem.
Having too much stability and not enough power is a problem.
Having too much speed and not enough power is a problem.
Opera = too much speed not enough power.
Lynx = too much stability not enough power.
IE = too much stability not enough speed.
Mozilla = just enough speed, power, stability, its good at everything, but not the best at anything, well rounded software is usually best.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Theres bugs in Mozilla, but if you honestly think there will be a bug which allows file execution???? sure there might be a bug, and the second you all find out about it, it will already be patched because Mozilla is open source, you can patch it yourself, or the person who finds the bug will just tell Mozilla and it will be patched before anyone even knows.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I think it' s a very useful feature, at least when you have the freedom to choose between tabs and new windows (unlike Opera).
A few issues though:
1. There should be a way to jump between tabs using keyboard shortcuts - Next/previous tab.
2. The closing cross button as well as the page scrollbar disappears when you open more tabs that there is room for in the main window. Not good idea - they should always be present.
3. If you open tabs a described in section 2 above, and close enough to make them fit inside the main window again, the rightmost tab's shadow will have disappeared.
Think I'll post the above as bugs/whishes when I get around to it.
Hello, my name is Robert Lerner, and I pronounce Lernux as "99% cpu"
now I just have to wait a couple of days for the new galeon. ;-)
Mozilla blows - Gecko rules
'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'
Anyone else notice a problem with 0.9.5 dealing with CNN's page? For some reason when I go there, the back button decides not to work. I then click on reload and I'm sent to the configured homepage. Might not only be CNN's page and it's not 100% reproducable, but it is reproducable.
I like the new CTRL-T tabbing feature. It would be nice if the right-click menu had an "open link in new tab" option. (Should be trivial to implement.)
Does Mozilla use less memory/resources while using this new feature?
It's lightweight, fast and damn stable.
so the copied the idea, so what ? immitation is the sincerest form of flattery
I Am geting box chars as I write this. I think some one messed up Gecko in tyhis release....I can not even see what I am typing.....not to mention the home page of /. is messed up as well
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I just don't look forward to downloading the new tarballs over my 56.6 modem at home.
*Sigh* I suppose by the time I get that one downloaded there will be 0.9.6.
-Peter
. Penguins Surely Ca
Why do we need heaps of different browsers? Why don't they just contribute to the KHTML library? Konqueror is far better. :-P
My 1.2 GHz/512MB AMD Thunderbird has been compiling the latest release now for about an hour.
Speed, indeed.
Konq is good, but MOzilla is faster, more powerful and more stable.
Plus Konq is just or linux and KDE at that.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Thats a very good idea, if the proxy cache is distributed, and people from certain sites sign up to it.
Say slashdot people sign up to a distributed proxy cache server, where the cache is stored on our harddrives, which would make browsing slashdot faster for US because we subscribed to the slashdot cache network.
Great idea, now go write some code.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Let's first implement the existing useful standards (of which the tag is certainly one) before we start to "innovate".
Anybody knows a good place to find Mozilla themes? The new x.themes.org isn't up yet, and the stuff on the old site, x.classic.themes.org , doesn't seem to work anymore.
I want powerful software, I'm not running on a 486 like you and having more features does not scare me.
and YES i do use linux so i know where you are coming from but in the case of a browser, features are a good thing when useful.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The first thing you should do is pull down the source and reconfigure and build with --disable-debug "--enable-optimizations=-O4 -finline -fno-omit-frame-pointer -march=pentiumpro -mcpu=pentiumpro" in addition to what ever components you want.
You would n't believe how much more snappier it makes mozilla run, for example the java sdk framed docs index pages goes down from 2.5sec to 1.5sec's on my athlon 850.
Also add this line to your prefs.js file:
user_pref("nglayout.debug.disable_xul_cache", false);
This speeds up loading time by using the pre-compiled versions of the javascript controls.
The Tabbed Browsing feature is interesting but it does take some room away from the web pages. There is a screen shot of the Tabbed Browsing feature in the mozillaquest.com story about 0.9.5. You can see in that screen shot that the tabs take up an entire toolbar. By the way there is an interesting discussion in that mozillaquest story about the turbo mode pros and cons. I tried the Tabbed Browsing feature and it is handy even though it takes space away from the web pages.
It would be even more useful to right click a piture and tell it to open in a tab
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
- You can't select several messages by a mouse click-&-drag (I do this all the time);
- Huge fixed non-scrollable real estate occupied by message headers (*completely stupid*);
- "View all headers" still doesn't work ("view source" is a painfully slow substitute);
- Silly quote style using solid bars. These break after two levels or so, and anyway, a message's body is *plain text* so display it as such, with >'s and all, dammit!
(And yes these are all in Bugzilla, but assigned for who-knows-when.) So my browsers of choice remain:- on Mac OS 9: Netscape 4.x
- on Mac OS X: Omniweb
- on LinuxPPC: Dillo
(As to Dillo, see the reasons here -- and thanks to the AC who recommended it in answer to that message. It rocks, and now that version 0.6.1 does tables, it has all you need to go browse for RPMs or tarballs, on those low end boxes for which Konqui, kfm or anything Gecko is not and never will be lean enough. Kudos to the Dillo team for making good on the promise that Linux can revive old hardware.)Timeo idiotikOS et dona ferentes
To instead of having two tiny tiny tabs and a long huge empty space. Instead have the tabs auto resize according to how much space you are using, like two tabs would be half and half, and the more tabs you have the smaller the tabs get. its annoying to have to click tiny little tabs in the far left and see all that wasted space.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The first thing I tried to do, was sell something on eBay. Mozilla didn't handle eBay's listing screens very well. I couldn't get it to work, I had to switch to IE.
But, I figured, there are lots of unusual things on that page like the category selection and iPix and stuff.
So, next I went to the weather channel's site. Part of the top of the page didn't display, but it was only graphics and the rest of the site seemed functional. I typed in my zip code, hit ok, and it wouldn't display the resulting page correctly. Again, I had to switch to IE.
So I've gone back to IE. I'll wait for 1.0 I guess, which will presumably be completely functional. But these kinds of issue *must* be worked out before average people will consider using it for their browser.
I'd like to be able to set my tabs to a size that i like it, I'm in high res and the tabs are way tiny
either resizeable, or have the tabs take up ALL the space by default and get smaller as you have more of them.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Most problems seem to stem from the disk cache structures changing from the previous version.
Please note that political arguments about open-source software are not what I'm looking for. The typical Windows user isn't going to listen to this.
What about features, speed, reliability, etc.? The things that I could tell users.
For all of you using the new tabbed interface of mozilla, its just a simple copy of what the multizilla guys did
[http://multizilla.mozdev.org/] This is a much better interface with many many more features. Give it a try, and report those bugs.
The goal of computer science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.
Several days ago I compiled 0.9.4 here on 1.2GHz Athlon and 256MB memory in exactly one hour, with quite few configure options. I folowed all instruction from their web site and compiled flawlessly. When all was done the browser didn't work.
I know this sounds pretty stupid, but one thing that I like about IE is the google search toolbar you can add. Is there a way to have this in Mozilla?
but MOzilla is faster,
wrong
more powerful
wrong
and more stable
wrong again.
Plus Konq is just or linux
wrong
and KDE at that
at last he almost gets one right.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
Maybe your harddrive is so slow that its taking forever to feed the information into the CPU.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Why is it that people always forget the Konqueror?
I don't think they do. Konqueror is my preferred browser by far. It's not perfect, there are areas where it needs a little work (Javascript and Netscape plugin handling for instance) but the overall feel of the browser UI and rendering engine is unmatched. It's quick, full of useful features, relatively light on resources and renders well. In short, everything I want out of a web browser.
There are a few reasons people have stopped making much noise over Konqueror recently:
I think that the 'battle' between Konqueror and Mozilla to be the most successful *nix browser is a little like the 1970's 'battle' between UNIX and Lisp machines. Lisp machines (perhaps like Mozilla) were designed by people whose emphasis was on the 'right way' and completeness above all else. If that meant a very large and complex system, then so be it. UNIX (perhaps a bit like Konqueror) was designed by people whose emphasis was on the 'right way' and completeness but ABSOLUTELY NOT at the expense of simplicity.
We all know now who won that 'battle'.
There's more about this subtle difference in design philosophy here. Yes, notice where this is hosted - Jamie Zawinski's site. Ironic? Perhaps not, given jwz's resignation from Netscape and Mozilla. You be the judge.
Ok, Lets see your statistics, show me the time in seconds it takes mozilla to render a page not downloaded from the net but from your harddrive.
Get some sample HTML files and so on, and see which one renders fastest, I'll bet money on Mozilla.
Stability, Konq has crashed, Mozilla has NEVER crashed in Linux or Windows ever since version 0.9.3
Put your money with your mouth is, show some statistics.
Konq is for KDE, KDE is for Unix, usually Linux.
Konq faster at loading pages than Mozilla? prove it,
Faster at loading up in KDE? of course, its built into KDE, but its not faster at actually browsing the web.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
First there IS NO standard Window manager in linux.
Gnome and KDE come with every machine, I dont know any distro which comes with just KDE, but i know a few which just come with Gnome.
Konq will never be an IE because it will never be standard because there is no standard Linux Browser.
Konq is not the fastest at rendering, Opera and MOzilla absolutely destroy it in terms of rendering speed, I tested myself.
Konq is not powerful enough, its years behind Mozilla, and its on the level of say Opera.
Konq is good for general purpose but am I the only one here who prefers to use a BROWSER to browse the web and a file manager to manage my files,
Konq has become the file Manager, Mozilla the browser, why? Because jack of all trades = master of none, A browser should be the best BROWSER, IE sucks because it does everything, I suppose windows users want this, But you are talking Linux here.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Bullshit. Just try visiting a porn site that keeps on spawning new pop-up windows.
You have to do some rapid clicking to close down the new windows before they can spawn new ones and that is a guaranteed to crash Mozilla.
From http://www.mozilla.org/quality/security/smoketest. html :
"If you're new to the Mozilla project and its bug tracking system Bugzilla,
please use the Bugzilla Helper, a tool that helps you write good bugs. "
Isn't that funny?
Most Windows users use AOL, ICQ, and Winamp, these tools should all be intergrated into a package.
I dont mean crappy intergration like what was done with Netscape 6 either.
I mean GOOD intergration, example, you have a feature where you go to a website and you see all the other AOL and ICQ users on the site and can even initiate a group chat with them.
Imagine going to slashdot with this feature and getting into a debate with serveral people, pushing a button and ICQ chat opens up and all of the people are now in an ICQ chat with you where you can continue your debate.
Also Imagine the file sharing possibilities, of going to a site and deciding to send files to people on the site via ICQ in annonymous fashion.
Imagine embeded winamp to play your mp3s as they download similar to how quicktime works.
Imagine AOL instant messager people and ICQ people all being able to communicate via the MOzilla instant messager, which basically connects to both, all your important windows tools on one menu, Mozilla.
This is how Microsoft beat Netscape, and its how Mozilla should beat IE.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
And Galeon only gets its entire browsing engine from these guys.
Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
I have about 5 or 6 IMAP accounts configured plus a couple news servers. Switching between folders and bringing up an email would lag - sometimes severely. Wow, what a difference 0.0.1 makes! :) I find the mail client to be MUCH faster. VERY nice!
I've been using MultiZilla (the tabs) a lot in 0.9.4 - love them! Glad to see much of it got into the stock 0.9.5!
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
It's slow, it's buggy, plugins are needlessly difficult to find and install, and then they don't run right. It dies instantly at the first sign of Flash.
.7 to 9.4. Bad. Very bad.
Don't like it. I've tried every one from
The Mozilla team are proud to announce the availability of Bugzilla. This exciting new software will allow users to create good bugs. "We just felt that the quality of bugs have decreased, so were just doing our bit to raise the bar again" said a leading Mozilla developer. "Users today are too lazy to spend time on creating bugs, so were offering them a nice point and click interface to make it sure for them" he went on to add.
Click on Bugzilla today and happy bug creating.
Is this tabbed browsing suppose to take less ressources?
Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought.
I have known many people who have stability problems after upgrading IE.
AFAIK, IE is integrated into the kernel and replaces the file manager. Swapping out portions of the kernel, especially for something as whimsical as a browser upgrade, is just insanity.
One has to hope that a shipped WinME/2000 is (somewhat) stable when the codebase goes on the shelves of the retailers. The service packs and browser upgrades have much lower standards; users can't return the OS to the reseller years after purchase because a Microsoft patch made the system unstable.
Remember this Windows Update mantra: critical updates yes, browser updates never! If you want the latest browser features, use Mozilla.
The problem is that you need a basic background in computer science to understand what I just said.
If you can't seem to get the Java plugin to work, please read the instructions in the release notes:a
http://www.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla0.9.5/#jav
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
First there IS NO standard Window manager in linux.
Correct. However, KDE is the de-facto standard. Of the major distributors: Mandrake, SuSE, Caldera and (now) Turbolinux use KDE as the default. Only RedHat uses GNOME as default. Debian has no distinction between the two (at least in the forthcoming Woody release) - and previous releases have used WindowMaker as the default.
I dont know any distro which comes with just KDE.
Caldera? Big name in 'business' Linux desktops. All the major distros ship both KDE and GNOME apart from Caldera, which only ships KDE.
Konq will never be an IE because it will never be standard because there is no standard Linux Browser.
If you keep saying it it might not happen. But look at the evidence: All but one of the major Linux distros use KDE by default. Konqueror is the default browser for all those KDE desktops. Isn't that how IE got popular? It was just the first browser that new users came across. Unless a seismic shift occurs in the Linux desktop world, Konqueror is going to be the first browser that most new users discover. Sorry. Perhaps the mozilla team could push the distros a bit harder to get included as the default? (KDE doesn't have to use Konqueror as the browser...)
Konq is not the fastest at rendering, Opera and MOzilla absolutely destroy it in terms of rendering speed, I tested myself.
Are you sure? Subjectively, Konq seems the fastest browser I've used, but I think that is mostly due to its incremental rendering of tables and the visible relayouting it does. Some people hate that. I really like it. It's particularly useful if you read a lot of slashdot over a modem link - no waiting for the whole page to load before it's rendered. :)
Konq is not powerful enough, its years behind Mozilla, and its on the level of say Opera.
In what way?
KHTML renders the vast majority of sites at least as well as Gecko - in some cases better, especially on brain-dead sites that rely on IE quirks to look right. Where's Gecko's anti-aliased font support on X11? Where's the UI to change User Agent? Ok, Konqui doesn't have a password manager. That would be nice to have. Please, be more specific on what is missing from Konqueror.
Because jack of all trades = master of none, A browser should be the best BROWSER
Then tell that Netscape, who decided Mozilla should be an email client, news client, IRC client, instant messenger and HTML editor as WELL as a browser. If that's not being a jack of all trades, then I don't know what is. Using that as an argument for Mozilla over Konqueror is total hypocrisy.
There's an option you can add to your preferences file that will disable javascript window popups that aren't the direct result of a mouse click. I think it's the following line (from my prefs.js), but I'm not totally sure. Check mozilla newsgroups or the /. discussion for 0.9.4 for more info...
user_pref("dom.disable_open_during_load",true);
Yes! That guy!
i cant wait for mozilla 0.9.9
-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)
And Galeon copied it from Netcaptor, which has been around for a few years on Win32.
About the GPG/PGP support: This is bug 56052. Even if you cannot help, you can vote for it.
but it does take some room away from the web pages.
So does the navigation bar. On the other hand, it makes a whole lot more room on your OSes taskbar.
What's your point?
Gerv
As it happens, it does (although that's not really why it was implemented.)
Gerv
I mean, it's clear they're planning to go all the way to 0.9.9.9.9.9.9.9.9 before releasing 1.0. Or did I not have enough decimal places there?
They should start at that many decimal places in the first place instead of suddenly having to add them in order to avoid a 1.0 release. =P
-Kasreyn,
who thinks the first release of ANY software should be 1.0, and it starts to get good around 3.2.
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
I realise that these features you want could presumably be turned off. BUT, why would I want the overhead of a web browser if all I'm doing is running ICQ (yes, I know recent builds of ICQ actually take up more memory than most web browsers).
.05 seconds to open winamp and start streaming the media when it came in, which winamp will do anyway. It is just a manner of pointing winamp to the file where you are saving the data.
The integration that quicktime does with the browser prompted me to swear off EVER installing it on any of my machines. Sorenson may be great, but I'll pass, thank you.
What's wrong with clicking on an mp3 and using a default program to open it. Presuming I want to listen to an mp3 repeatedly, I'll typically actually save it. A web browser should browse the web, that is it. It doesn't introduce a whole lot of hardship to open a dedicated to the task at hand. The user interface issues alone make it a tough task. Would the instant messaging client be docked inside the browser somewhere, or outside, what kind of controls would it have, would it be sleek, like you can force ICQ to be with some twiddling, or would it have the bulk of a web browser (typically what happens when you try to do things like this). On a fast enough machine (most of them now), IE opens instantly, mozilla nearly so (I'm not turning on the cache feature), ICQ usually sits there since I want it around all the time, as does AIM. Winamp opens instantly, and is usually docked somewhere anyway out of convenience. PERHAPS, including a link on audio files with a right click that says "stream from this location" would be a good idea, it would take the
There was an instant messaging client that did what you are talking about, Odigo (is it still around?), I tried it for a day, the first time I went to a website and it showed everyone else with an Odigo client browsing the website, it freaked me the hell out. I dont need the entire internet knowing I'm browsing goat porn, thanks.
The more I try to talk to people online, the more I find out that I really don't have a whole lot in common with most of them. My ICQ list is reserved for friends that I've met in real life, and people in the few channels I hang out in on IRC. I dont want Joe in Utah messaging me because I happen to be looking at google.
I realise I'm saying this as a geek, but I also come from a background of a couple of years of ISP tech support. In addition to currently being a sysadmin, I do desktop support for decidedly non tech savvy users in my department, and such features wouldn't be useful or wanted by them, either. Right now, if icq or aim, or winamp screws up (We dont care what is installed on their machines as long as they get their work done and don't completely hose the os, most users have admin on their machines, until they prove themselves incompetant), it gets deleted and reinstalled. I dont want to have to completely uninstall a web browser simply because the AIM component screws up.
This wasn't intended as a flame but I think the way things work now is the best way. I'm not scared of change, I just dont like integrating everything, only to have a mess that isn't even remotely as useful as the individual parts.
Now I only wish they'd rip that TAB Autocompletion from Galeon as well. I find it much more error proof than the typical autocompletion and much faster than drop down windows. Now if Galeon would load huge slashdot pages incrementally, I'd love it even more.
But that's what Microsoft does...
"Average user is using IE right now because mozilla lacks the features needed to make them switch over." "make them"?! What frightening language. How about this: if they like IE, let them use IE? What good could possibly come from getting them to switch from IE to an IE-copycat?
At first I dismissed you as being one of the "average users" you talk about. That you say that you're the "average geek" makes your argument make even less sense. As I'm sure you know, of the graphical web browsers out there today, about 100% of them are for the "average user", which leaves about 0% of them for geeks like you and me. Mozilla offers the potential to be useful for geeks, and for some inexplicable reason, you demand that it stay targeted at the "average user", a marketplace that is already horrendously overcrowded, and one that Mozilla cannot compete in.
Can't we geeks have at least ONE fucking browser for ourselves? Is that too much to ask? The software industry is full of geeks with inferiority complexes, saying "yes, this is good software, but it's not good for 'the average user', so I must redesign it". Never mind the fact that they have NO idea what "the average user" is; they just have some terribly insulting stereotype in mind. Is it any wonder then that the software industry pumps out tonnes of CRAP each year? Instead of targeting at diverse markets, they all target at a single market (the "average user"), and since they're so misinformed, that single market doesn't even exist really.
I know there are a lot of soccer moms and illiterate secretaries out there using computers, fine. People exaggerate how big that market is, and they exaggerate just how stupid those people are, but still, they are fairly large and stupid (in terms of computer knowledge). But they do not make up the ENTIRE market. You may be surprised to know that there are a lot of people, a substantial amount of computer users, who actually know how to use a computer, and, wow, even like computers. Is it too much to ask that they get ONE FUCKING BROWSER THAT DOESN'T GIVE THEM BRAINDAMAGE? I don't care if 99% (horrid over-exaggeration) of users are too stupid to figure out anything beyond IE. Does that mean that there should never be anything designed for the other 1%, the 1% that will actually accomplish something with their software?!
Starting with release 0.9.4, I have been using Mozilla exclusively, both on my Windows and on my Linux PPC machine, without even knowing it! I mean ... originally I used to come across sites that had problems with mozilla and had to use IE or Opera, but now, without even realizing it, mozilla has become my default browser of choice.
... with 0.9.5 tabbed windows! It just keeps getting better and better.
...'. Mozilla 0.9.5 proves them wrong.
I suspect it has something to do with the 'Quick Launch' feature. Without this feature enabled, I had to wait almost 10-15 seconds before mozilla even started up, while IE almost loaded instantly. And I was unwilling to leave mozilla running all the time since it was such a memory hog. But with the 'Quick Launch' feature, I am pleased to say that mozilla loads as fast as IE on my machine and works better too! Plus, I don't have to keep mozilla running all the time.
I love certain features, e.g. being able to turn off those annoying javascript popup windows, and now
I definitely have to disagree with people who claim 'There is no such thing as a free lunch
I actually use Galeon, not Mozilla directly, and as far as I'm concerned, Galeon is 1.0 quality and beyond. It is definitely rock solid from my experience.
So what's really keeping Mozilla from 1.0? If the whole Mozilla browser is anywhere near as good as Galeon, I don't see what should be keeping them. What are the major issues?
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
.. this version should probably be Mozilla 4.0.
I've been using Mozilla 0.9.4, and its definitely far more stable than Internet Explorer 3 was (IE3 was about as unstable as Netscape 3 and 4); I would say 0.9.4 is about as stable for me as IE 4.0 was (Over the years I've used IE 3/4/5 and Netscape 3/4 all quite a lot).
So when Mozilla does reach version 1.0, they can probably just as well call it version 5.0, by Microsoft standards, as a product, it will most likely be very close to Internet Explorer 5.0.
They should consider calling it version 5 just for "marketing reasons", thats what companies do anyway.
...the first release of ANY software should be 1.0, and it starts to get good around 3.2.
My thoughts exactly, as a NeXTSTEP 3.3 user!
A lot of good points in this thread!
I agree that precashing everything sounds a bit wastful. But what if the user could select an item in the menu that causes the browser to precashe all pages on the current server (wget -r) and keep it available when offline?
That idea with ICQ+AOL integration sounds interresting. That would give a supported, reliable 'standard' client. Another nice feature would be text to speech support (as in Konqueror). Then id like a to mozilla to monitor pages and inform me when they have changed.(didnt navigator do that with the bookmarks?)
Codebase size shouldnt be a problem, just make these functions optional plugins that are kept separate from the main program.
(Dont you think that your ICQ contact list would look nice in that sidebar?)
Then there are things that really shouldnt be integrated too tightly. For example: downloads shouldnt abort if mozilla hangs (think 'copy link location' + wget).
Still, the new 0.9.5 is sweet. Love those tab's!
Sorry, I meant XUL fast load not the cache:
user_pref ("nglayout.debug.disable_xul_fastload", false);
anyone else having issues with the java plugin freezing mozilla cold? it's installed right, 'cause it launches, but mozilla just hangs, and ps shows java_vm running (several threads).
Am i the only one with this fucking problem?
I don't see the source tarball in the usual
places. No way to run it an my Alpha without
the source.
I continue to be puzzled by posts proclaiming that Mozilla is faster than browser X. I've tested release after release against an array of browsers on multiple platforms -- even bizarre browsers such as one based on interpreted TCL -- and it just ain't so.
It's heartening that the current release actually runs, most of the time, and renders pages about as well as Internet Explorer.
But it's like wandering through the world socked on depressants. Even little things, like typing into the location bar, or clicking on a dropdown, are noticably slow.
Under Linux, the news and mail clients are useless.
Galeon may be the answer. I don't know. It's such a bugwad of undisclosed dependencies that I've never been able to get it running.
No, I imaginve after 9.9 it'll go to 9.10.
Those aren't decimal points there.
Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
Sorry, that line should also be in user.js instead of prefs.js :)
Mozillas innovations are only appreciated by people like us.
Someone using Internet explorer does not care about the rendering engine, does not care about silly programmable theme engines etc etc.
All they care about is how mozilla actually functions., What innovation has been made in how the browser itself functions? NONE.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The current last entry before 1.0 in Bugzilla seems to be 0.9.7. Of course, nothing prevents new milestones to be added between it and 1.0, though ;)
Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.
Dont tell me about the rendering engine, MathML and all of these innovations that only geeks care about.
Mozilla needs to compete with IE, not Lynx, not Konq, Mozilla is a Browser trying to compete with Internet Explorer.
What Mozilla needs, is innovations that normal people can see, not under the hood innovations.
Linux has under the hood innovations, funny how if you pu the average user in front of OSX or WindowsXP they will think WindowsXP and OSX are truely more innovative.
Average users dont see the internal, they see the features THEY can use.
Having all these fancy programmable this and extendable that, will not improve the average users experience over IE at all.
Name a feature MOzilla has which IE does not have, and i mean a feature average people can use and care about, name one, what themes? IE can do themes too, what auto form complete? IE has had that for years.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
You can use trick the ports system into compiling cvsed versions of Mozilla if you like. Use cvsup on the mozilla source folder to get all your files in sync, and then rebuild the port. It's a lot faster that way.
The World is Yours.
It's nice, I really like it. It has a nice clean layout if you use msft's sites, and it's essentially explorer with less clutter. This is the direction programs need to be heading, less configuration, more automation. By the way, I suffered with netscape 4.x on linux for years, and when mozilla didn't deliver, no more linux desktop for me. It just wasn't happening and I was missing out.
Geeks only think about themselves, thats the problem. every open source peice of software is designed so only geeks can appreciate it.
I dont know what the average user wants? its so clear, look at Microsofts Internet Explorer, Bloated as hell, Look at AOL, Bloated as hell, ICQ, etc, This is what people use, so it must be what they want.
Give people what they want
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The AVERAGE windows user is not on slashdot reading about MOzilla
And if you want simple why are you using IE which comes packed with media player, msn message, passport, and other useless bloatware, why arent you using opera?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Thats why most people are using MSN explorer.
This is where Mozilla should be headed if it wants to dominate
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Get some sample HTML files and so on, and see which one renders fastest, I'll bet money on Mozilla.
This is the only point I truly have a problem with.
Firstly, I should point out that KHTML, konquerors default renderer loads up faster (as in from the point I open the program) than Mozilla does (as of version 0.94, haven't downloaded the most recent one yet but I don't expect drastic changes).
Mozilla does tend to display pages slightly faster, but that doesn't bother me because my browsing speed is slowed down by my 56k modem, not my processor.
The Mozilla interface is not as fast as Konqueror. Period.
I should also point out that Konqueror itself is not (or at least is not just) a web browser - it is also a directory browser, a file viewer, etc. This is not feature bloat, this extra functionality is all modular - you install what you want and access it through a single interface. It also mean that if you want, you can use the mozilla rendering engine from within Konqueror.
Which browser do I prefer? Konqueror, obviously. Which browser sits on my system in case Konqueror doesn't work for some reason? Mozilla, naturally.
distributed caching would work just fine.
Simple, each of us caches and mirrors websites and instead of us connecting to slashdot.com we connect to each other
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Who in their right mind uses this OS on the desktop? Talk about obtuse...
There are advanced settings for autocomplete in Preferences>Navigator>Smart Browsing
Is any of that like the Galeon autocomplete?
I agree, but distributed caching in combination with pre-caching (that's what my first comment was about) with the current user-base that actually uses caching proxies, would probably increase the overall traffic and therefore be a bad thing.
0x or or snor perron?!
Mozilla is being built as a successor to Netscape Communicator, and so includes a bunch of tools to take advantage of a variety of open Internet standards, including POP,IMAP,NNTP,LDAP, and IRC. Mozilla also includes a web page editor (Composer) which can be used to create mail and news posts as well as web pages, if you're into that kinky HTML stuff. This makes Mozilla vulnerable to the (misleading) bloat charge, for those who don't like flexible tools, but it also gives you a one-stop tool that can take you all over USENET as well as the web.
One of the most important benefits that I can see on Windows is that Mozilla comes with support for using Sun's recent, vastly improved, Java VM's integrated into the browser. Yes, people can write HTML for Java applets that will work on IE and Netscape 4.x using the Java plug-in, but Mozilla automatically uses the Java plug-in for all Java code, with significant benefits in performance and stability. If you have any use for Java in your browser, Mozilla will support things better.
There's also things like themeing, the sidebar, the improved cookie management, and the lack of operating system exploits that IE and Outlook seem to continually fall prey to.
- jon
Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX
It'd be nice to be able to drag a link to an existing tab and that link would then be rendered in that tab's space. I really don't see any ways to open a page in an already existing tab, but think drag-drop of the link would be the best way.
I have used Mozilla 0.9.3 and it's mostly pretty nice... but there's one show stopper that I don't think is being addressed.
My office uses Lotus Notes for mail (ugh!). Its Domino server lets me read and send mail from a browser, so I don't have to pollute my home PC with that godawful "client". Of course I have to get through the firewall to get there, but at least on Windows they gave me the necessary IPsec client (Nortel) that works with the SecureID card. (That's another reason I can't depend on Linux so far, but that subject it off topic.)
The Domino mail client uses Java to provide useful menu items like "next message" and "reply". This works on Netscape 4.7x and on Internet Exploder, but not on Mozilla. Obviously there's something different about their Javas. Maybe Domino uses an older version and the one in Mozilla isn't backwards compatible?
So until Mozilla can talk to Domino, I'll still need the unstable but well-understood old Netscape client. Suggestions for fixing this are of course welcome. (Flames about still using Windows for anything are not. My current problems with Mandrake 8.1 are off topic too.)
Is there a way to make it so that clicking the middle mouse button on a link opens it in a new tab, instead of a new window? That would be very nice, since tabs open a lot faster than new windows do and I've become used to using the middle mouse button.
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever
At work, I switched from Eudora to Mozilla Mail (for Windows) recently. I've got three complaints w/ Mozilla Mail:
1) When the Mozilla browser crashes, my mail dies with it
2) When I have several Moz windows open, I can't distinguish mail from other browser windows in my taskbar (a different icon would be nice).
3) I can't set up multiple Eudora-style "personalities"--if you've got aliases configured on your mail server (say for a multitude of mailing lists, etc.) pointing to one account and you want to be able to respond as one of of the aliases (essentially to be able to change the "From" header) you can't in an easy way in Mozilla.
Are these issues for anyone else?
I kept downloading and trying Mozilla. I didn't know what people were talking about. The performance was awefull. Then I tried on Windows and found it works pretty well. I actually use it as my regular browser on NT. But X Windows on Linux performance still stinks. Netscape 4 works fine over X. Is there something fundamentally different about the UI that causes Mozilla not to paint over a remote X session. Running programs over X remotely is a huge plus in Unix development environments. A lot of our people work over Exceed on NT.
And is it the lack of features like this that are holding back the 1.0 release? Apart from the SOCKS stuff, surely none of these are essential for a first stable version!
I'm serious. Why are frilly extras like column ordering via drag and drop being worked on at this late stage. Shouldn't this thing be in feature freeze by now?
Unless I'm missing something, there still appears to be no spell checker for the mail client. There does not appear to be any mention of it in the release notes at least. I mean a spell checker for a mail client seems a pretty basic requirement. That's really the only thing holding me back from using Moz as my full time browser/mail client at work. *sigh*, perhaps there will be one by the time 1.0 is out.
Uh, why does OS software take so long to develop? Surely it's not related to making bugfixes, Mozilla has plenty of those. Open Source should be put out of its misery while it still has some dignity!
Regarding personalties:
An easy workaround is to define one mail account for each address that you use. Then the from line in the compose window becomes a menu that you can select addresses from.
It's not perfect, though. Mozilla needs an unique incoming mail server for each account. I've just pointed it at dummy IP adresses for each extra account where I don't have access to the real server (i.e., at work, behind the corporate firewall).
First off, what it cost me in resources: I grabbed about 150Mb of source off CVS, but it was compressed. Normal Mozilla source tarballs are 35Mb so it was probably about that amount that I actually downloaded. It took a little short of half a gig (!) of disk space for the compile, and it took about three quarters of an hour to compile on a 1Ghz Duron using this configure line:
./configure --enable-xinerama --disable-debug "--enable-optimizations=-O4 -finline -fno-omit-frame-pointer -march=pentiumpro -mcpu=pentiumpro" --disable-mainnews
/. poster, thanks!)
(most of which I snagged from some earlier
Secondly, what I gained over just using the normal build: Xinerama no longer makes my fonts go to comedy oversize on certain sites (reported here). But, more interestingly, Mozilla is definitely a lot snappier to use. Menus open quicker, I swear pages render faster, and it's all around more responsive.
Now to wait for a fresh Galeon to try out...
You win again, gravity!
Does anyone know how I can get the middle mouse button to open up a new tab rather than a new window? Right now, you have to right-click the link, and select "Open in new Tab".
actually mozilla doesn't support the blink tag...
It's slow AND unstable. It also lacks some useful features like auto-refresh, IP spoofing, etc...
Repeal the DMCA!
actually mozilla doesn't support the blink tag...
Hixie, have you read html.css recently?
blink {
text-decoration: blink;
}
There was a bug that broke it, but it got fixed recently. I campaigned to have that line taken out, but you (IIRC) were fighting to keep it!
Gerv
Actually, yes I would, because Mozilla's performance on my machine (K6-2 400) leaves *much* to be desired under Unix, while it runs as fast or faster than Exploiter under windows. (albeit very unstable... that might have had something to do with how unstable windows was on my machine before I "replaced" it shortly after buggering my drives)
I thank you very much for the tip. :)
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
One of the real bothers for me about Moz is that no one really seems to be writing themes for it. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've only found a few here and there and none of them seem to take the concept very far.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
Actually, the MultiZilla guys asked Mozilla to do this one. More recent releases of MultiZilla are extensions to this, rather than a complete re-implementation. Most likely, MultiZilla itself will be folded into Mozilla, eventually.
Of course, what I'm really waiting for is for MozGest to get integrated. Gesture-based navigation rules.
One of the features of netscape that I *really* need is roaming profiles.
If mozilla doesn't implement it, I'll end up going with IE and some sort of pptp hack or (blech) yahoo bookmarks -- and I really do not want to do that!!
One fo the best things about Mozilla, from a DHTML web developer's view like myself, is its excellent JavaScript support.
.highlight() method for every button on the page", and do it with a few lines fo code.
One of the best features is that every HTML element in the DOM, such as 'document' and 'select' and all the other objects you can implement, has a real-time modifiable JavaScript prototype/class. That means you can add properties, methods, etc. to eny and every object.
For instance, now you can actually say things like "I wish they included a
The upshot of this is that Mozilla is very extensible. I seriously urge everyone to check out this site which offers an Internet Explorer emulation library for Mozilla. It's interesting, to say the least, as it emulates a decent portion of the IE DOM in JavaScript.
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
Actually the implementation ideas were from Multizilla. I think Multizilla got the idea form Opera.
Mozilla 0.9.3 is the best, 0.9.4 was worse, and java fucked up in it. Now mozilla wont even fucking work!
Im going back to Opera!
I challange you to provide a working link to the skipstone home. Went to here and it is a dead site.
Yeah right MOZ_9.4 is dogslo, but at least won't blow up every 10_minutes on my K6 RedHat system like Moz_0.9.5 insists on doing. Backward compatable? Nice work fellas ...
Awwww whats the matter baby?
You don't have anymore philosophical bullcrap to spout over why someone using an Open Source OS should "be involved in the cause"???
How sad.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
I keep checking the release notes for the obligatory spell checker, and am constantly dissapointed. Is it possible that they could make it all the way to 1.0 without a simple spell check feature? Why is this so difficult? surely there must be open source dictionaries they could implement? Can't they use netscape 4.x's dictionary? I'm too ashamed to recommend Mozilla to my friends simply because it lacks simple basic features like this.
ôó
IIRC, talkbalk only starts recording uptime after the first time you crash. So if you use the browser for 304 hours before the first time it crashes, the talkbalk server won't know.
The shareholder is always right.
The interface is dog slow. The page rendering is zooper fast though it's only those with zooper fast connections that will be able to tell.
I just tried a new nightly of Mozilla and the TAB autocomplete does seem to work now (maybe I just got unlucky before). However, it still doesn't seem as fluid as in galeon. You'd almost have to try it to understand what I mean. I don't like the window that mozilla pops up, and I detest how it automatically completes names, although I know you can turn that off.
K-Meleon kicks ass over Mozilla. Based on the embeded version of the Gecko engine, it's got the same rendering speed, accuracy, and standards support as mozilla. The interface isn't nearly as clunky, very closely resembling that of IE's. It supports netscape plugins, so you can get your java and flash if you desire. It has it's OWN plugin interface, so you can extend it to suit your own needs. It weighs in at a whole four meg, and it's WAY faster than opera. Opera has a nice splash screen so you can read that it's the fastest. K-Meleon doesn't leave time for one of those. It's just there as soon as you click it. Current version is 0.5 which is based on mozilla 0.9.4. Watch http://kmeleon.sf.net for a newer build based on 0.9.5
Once more, that's http://kmeleon.sf.net for ALL your browsing needs.
-Del the Kmeleon Evangelist
I'm not as worried about #1 (Mozilla hardly crashes on me anymore) 2 & 3 are valid concerns. #2 is easy - I'd really like to see a mail icon too. #3 - like another poster said - create dummy email accounts - not perfect, but it works fine. I just name them 'ID Holder #x' Note that sigs DO work well with different accounts - in 0.9.4 if you were in account A and hit reply, but changed your from to Account B, the sig changes with it - very nice touch.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
According to their website, "tabbed browsing" is patent-pending.
:-)
So get it while its still legal
http://www.netcaptor.com/tour.php
...writing a script that slogins to each machine and runs pkg_add with the auto-download options? Just a thought...
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I'll happily use Mozilla for everything once it has newsgroup filters just as it has filters for mail.
Any of you splendid Mozillons know if that's on the roadmap?
If you know your password then you dont really NEED to see the possible choices.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Over 100 million AOLIM users, Every user knows about it.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Wow, that's too bad. Any bug that disabled the blink tag would be a feature, in my opinion.
-Paul Komarek
You can always take it out of your personal copy of html.css. Open up the jar files in your Mozilla install using some Zip tool until you find it. Edit the file in-place (decent zip tools can do that) to remove the part that references blink.
Gerv
Most browsers use a 1.1 Java VM. One of the interesting things about the 1.1 VM is that the verifier which checks the validity of class files, does not run by default. Unfortunately many obfuscators (programs to make your code hard to decompile) take advantage of this fact by inserting invalid data into the class file. When Sun released Java 2 (versions 1.2, 1.3, and the new 1.4), they turned the validator on by default to increase security. The result was that all these programs that used the obfuscator programs that insert bad data no longer work. The solution is that the vendor has to recompile their code and use a better obfuscator.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Just got around to finally upgrading my home machine from 0.9. I've been using 0.9.4 at work, but I didn't upgrade my home version because I had some problems with text box focus in 0.9.3 and I wanted to wait till they fixed 'em (they did ;) ).
;)
;) Maybe I'll play with the gestures one day, but I'm not all that interested..."type'n'click" works just fine for me, thanks. ;)
;-D Not everyone uses Linux, ya know...though I'm fairly sure I will be using it more often as soon as I move to a bigger place and have room to set up more than one computer. (I can't give up Win98 because many of the games I'm addicted to aren't ported and wouldn't run right in an emulator...but I do not plan to upgrade to a newer version of Windows in the forseeable future, so it looks like it's gonna be Linux or bust for me in a few years. ;) )
0.9.5 seems to start a little faster and run a little faster than 0.9, though it's still slower than Netscape 4.77. What decided it for me, though, was that the annoying "right click disables keyboard" bug is no longer happening in 0.9.5. That bug was the primary reason that I didn't use Mozilla much from home (I use the context menu all the time and for some reason, the bug, which supposedly happens when you "double right click", was being invoked about 75% of the time I used the context menu...). For some reason, the bug didn't affect my work install on Win2K. Now that 0.9.5 doesn't have the bug, I think I'll be using it as my primary browser from now on, unless something well-hidden but very annoying somehow pops up...
Can't say much for the tabs or the gesture module, because I don't use 'em and don't plan to. I only used Opera once because at the time I tried it, the tabbed layout was the only choice, and I hated it. I already have a taskbar. I don't need two of 'em taking up unneccesary space...
A note to that fellow who wants Mozilla to include tons of extra "bundled" apps...bundling is not the best method of software design and distribution. Small and specialized is better, to a certain point. A modular design is the best way to go, because it lets those who want to add all sorts of features and extra stuff, while those who don't want them don't have to bother with them. Why would I want to waste the time, disk space, and RAM downloading, storing, and running "bundled" programs and apps I have no use for? When I want to do a task, I know exactly what program I want to use to do it. MP3 files? Play 'em in Winamp. Instant messages? ICQ99b. Watch MPEG movies? WMP 6.4 works fine for me. Check my email? Pegasus, of course. Sure, if I run all this stuff at the same time, it takes up more RAM than an integrated program would...but not that much more. And when I'm not running all these at the same time (which is 95% of the time, BTW), the ones I'm not using are not running at all. If they were "integrated" into my browser, they would be running all the time, wasting precious resources, even when I'm not using them. Not to mention the fact that, since I already HAVE software that does all of the above and I have no desire to switch to other software, if Mozilla came bundled with all that stuff, it would be a complete waste of space and resources for me, because I'd never use it. I've always been an advocate of keeping software seperated. If it's a web browser, let it browse the web. If it's a chat program, let it chat. If it's a media player, let it play media files. There's no need for all three of them to do everything. Is it cool if they can interact with each other? Sure...but that can be done easily without making them integral parts of each other. It seems to me that modularity is the best design for software, because it allows the most freedom and the best experience for the end user, since they get (almost) exactly what they want or need, whether it's a barebones utility or a full-fledged suite.
BTW, just a note for you browser warriors...I'm sure Konq is a great browser, but it has one small flaw...it only runs on one platform. Mozilla runs on my Windows machines as well as it does on your *nix boxes
Dennyk
I am certain that GUI functions are integrated into the kernel for speed.
While I may be wrong in asserting that HTML-handling functions are not in the kernel but in the shell, the GUI integration is then unquestioned and agreed by all.
Since the Windows kernels are closed source, the only people who are truly authoritative on this subject are under NDA, so I doubt that you can prove that no HTML influences are there.
It is a general goal in kernel design to keep as much as possible in user space for security purposes. Microsoft violates this goal to squeeze extra speed and functionality, with demonstrated effects.
I did not mean to come off as pompous, but merely to point out that good cs administration practices and what Microsoft advocates with their update agents are often diametrically opposed.
And I say again: for the best stability under Windows, never update IE because of its heavy integration with OS functions.
p.s. Stop envying my uid; it's unseemly.
Mozilla's experimental setting to disable popup windows on loading and unloading pages (without disabling JavaScript) is a killer feature. My wife is ordinarily an IE user, but the recent boom in popover/popunder advertising has her itching to switch...
As for speed, it seems about the same. Ironically, I've had more problems with IE instability than with Mozilla.
Your other point is also wrong. Even if people were completely free to not choose Microsoft products (just see how many Ask Slashdots alone are asking about how to get permission to use non-Microsoft products), it does not imply what they want. Consumers have a few dozen options in operating systems, which nicely fit into two categories: Mac OS, and Unix. Just because people choose Windows (which is a form of Mac OS), doesn't mean they actually like it, just that they like it better than Unix. Given a finite number of choices (and indeed a very small number of finite choices), it's impossible to determine what people want by what they choose. Let me guess: Americans want George W. Bush? Not likely; they just don't want Al Gore: realistically they were only given two choices.
Let's go over this again:
Repeat: I don't need to do a geek distribution of Mozilla, because Mozilla is already on the path to being a geek browser (I should say it's not there yet, but nonetheless it's promising). I just don't like to see people whining.
See bug 19258 -- support for a user pref to override blinking text.
Both that and the fixed blink support itself should be in 0.9.6, hopefully.
IE has a horrible interface in my opinion. why would anyone choose that over MOzillas customizeable interface?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Konqueror is just better than Mozilla. It's faster, uses less memory, and I can browse sites with Konq where Mozilla fails. So, I don't understand what all this buzz about.
Do you need good browser? Go to www.konqueror.org
KDE. KDE Themes. KDE News. Visit http://kde2.newmail.ru
Ah, I couldn't write better!.. :-)
Thanks a lot for nice posting
Cheers,
Vadim
KDE. KDE Themes. KDE News. Visit http://kde2.newmail.ru
Konqueror starts in 3 sec., and Mozilla - in 20-25 seconds.
And do you call this *fast*?
Konqueror *is* much more stable than Mozilla.
Konqueror *is* faster than Mozilla on startup.
Konqueror *is* faster than Mozilla in rendering speed.
Did I mentioned that Konq can browse more sites than Mozilla, plus it supports document.all (MS IE4) DOM model?
Vadim
KDE. KDE Themes. KDE News. Visit http://kde2.newmail.ru
More details:
Features of the HTML rendering component in KDE 2.2
CSS2 support
And what professional people think about Konqueror
KDE. KDE Themes. KDE News. Visit http://kde2.newmail.ru
or go with Telnet and open port 80 :-))
KDE. KDE Themes. KDE News. Visit http://kde2.newmail.ru
>For geeks only. Command lines aren't innovative
:-)
... its hardly surprising that much of what is developed is a bit geeky really.
> -- they're reactionary,
>I have to say, though, as a protocol engineer, I
> don't see what's so special about HTTP. It's
>another super-simple "text commands on TCP"
>protocol, very much like FTP. Where's the
>innovation in hhtpd?
Spoken as a true geek!
But seriously
Most people in the third world haven't even used a phone let alone a pc and you think that a web server is not an innovation? I recently was on hols in Cuba and in the main tourist areas they have little glass bubble internet stations. For 3$ an hour you get to logon. And guess what - it works - you have everything you have back home - webmail and web calenders and intranets etc.
On the same holiday we had to send a fax. 20 dollars!
To me this is the web at it's best - lowering the cost of communicating properly whilst on the move.
Deffo innovation.
hawk