Slashdot Mirror
Email Worse Than Marijuana For Intelligence?
wallykeyster writes "The Guardian is reporting that a recent study at King's College indicates that the average IQ loss of email users was 10 points (or six points more than cannabis users). Details on The Register as well. The Register has a related story about how computers make kids dumb and an apparent "problem-solving deficit disorder" observed in children who use computers. I thought it was television that rotted your brain?"
OMG I bet you lose 20 points for IM
The Register's story here
The survey didn't mention how subjects were selected, what if some of them are also drug users? And I think people are more willing to reveal their email addiction than their drug adddiction.
I believe it's more about social-acceptability. If the respondents think that being distracted by emails is not unacceptable (as shown in the article), they will allow themselves to be distracted.
Next up we will see how sex lower people's IQ. Imaging you're answering questions in front of naked marketing chicks.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
If anything was going to make you dumber, I would hav thought Google would be to blame. If you can't figure something out, just Google it.
I'm gonna figure out how to sue someone cause' my email made me fat.
My neighbor's email made him a pedophile.
And, my dog's email made him kill himself.
And a friend's email made him blame everything else in his life for being dumb.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
I think it would be wise to rethink this.
Is it the e-mail that makes people dumber, or dumb people that uses e-mail?
Scully: Should we arrest David Copperfield?
Mulder: Yes we should, but not for this.
I believe using a bong might gain you a few points of IQ do to water filtration.
Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
What effects does that have on my memory and intelligence?
*lights one up*
Aww, who cares
I have no idea what TFA means by that.
I can easily stay focus--ooh, Amazon shipped my book order!
I think these studies are purposely focused on certain areas where they know the outcome of their own study.
Like the difference in examining crime in a low income area vs a high income area. [ / suspicion ]
"pass the pop3...dude.." "Police arrested a local ISP for running an SMTP" "That's one less scum off the face of this earth, we can't have these kids propigating this brain-numbing garbage," says Officer Joe Johnson, "Not in my town"
emal has not to make me fum.
dum.
at least I stil got my l33t h8x0r skillz!!!1!1!!!
Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
As someone who has dealt with diagnosing and fixing a lot of computer related problems caused by relatives who don't have a clue and by my own tinkering, I'd say that PCs sharpen your problem solving skills. Or maybe they're unrelated, and PC skills are just a reflection of one's problem solving abilities.
I once read that using a computer is a test of one's ability to follow directions. Probably true, but I do also think that maintaining a computer in an environment of changing hardware and software is a test of one's ability to use deductive reasoning to solve problems, as well as maintain a jumble of info in your head and connect seemingly disparate pieces of info to solve a problem.
Sure the internet can make you more intelligent if you spend your time reading Wolfram Mathworld, Scientific American, Project Gutenburg texts, and Wikipedia...but who does? Is the back-forth banter here really intelligent? Seems more like smalltalk. The bloggers are just writing about each other. Everquest is pulling people away from reality entirely.
Maybe the library isn't such a bad idea after all.
that allowing computers to constantly shift your focus from one thing to the other, impairs your long term ability to focus on one thing and imprint it on your brain in serious depth.
My prescribed solution (IMHO)? A weekend per month secluded from all electronica, preferably with someone else, along with non-technical books, and one or more chess sets. Or better yet, a program once a month that provides a rewarding experience that reinforces one's ability to just **focus**.
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
Slashdot. Seriously its worse than email, at least email has an actual productive purpose, with slashdot we just waste our time posting things that will have no actual benefit - look im doing it now!
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
...in order to keep it lit...
How do you compare SMTP/POP3 with Marijuana???
Where'd you get this awesome email? Looks like Nigerian gold there.
I'm an e-mail user AND a pothead!
Okay, somebody needs to do a posting series where the more they post, the stupider they be typin CAUSE ALL THIS eMAILING MAKE ME STOOPID AND SLASHDOT IS KEW COZ I GOT KARMA NAD MAKE FIRST POOPY^H^H^HPOST!
My 5 year old son has consistently been called "best in class" and "brilliant student" by his schools' staff - obviously to my pride and joy ;-) - being an IT guy, a gamer, as well as a dad, I have always taken a relaxed attitude towards pc use and gameplay. He never really played anything too challenging or involving - a bit of tuxracer, a bit of sonic, etc. Until a few weeks ago, when some of his schoolfriends started playing some more involving games, and he wanted to keep up. "Bionicles" was duly installed, and away he went.
We are now 2 weeks later, and my wife and I just - like, 30 mins ago - finished a discussion about how to remove the game from the pc whilst making it look like an accident.... His schoolwork has plummeted, his teachers are really upset - his concentration is just gone, and he isn't interested in playing, arts, crafts, friends or schoolwork. He is a completely different boy, and its really worrying us.
Make of it what you will, but this gave me a first-hand look at the whole issue, and has me pretty disturbed.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
I've heard about The Register in a few articles before, and I'm just wondering how reliable the information on it really is. To me, the presentation of it looks like a supermarket tabloid.
"If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?" --Seymour Cray
I'm sorry but I don't care how much "scientific proof" whomever has, I just don't believe it. I think this is just another case of the infamous Junk Science that so many love.
I personally have introduced computers to thousands of people over the last 12 years and I've noticed that stupid people stay stupid while smart people stay smart. There are of course exceptions... like the smart guy who decides crack could be fun, heh.
Nice headline, provocative article, but no information on how this "survey of befuddled volunteers." was conducted, or how it came to its conclusions.
I'm sure someone will post the original survey. When they do, they'll probably get mod points. (Hint, hint.)
... a large part probably has to do with the parents letting their kids sit and surf the web for nine hours a day, and not doing anything mentally stimulating. I mean, if you let a kid surf all he wants, he's probably not going to do anything that involves, oh, I don't know, math.
I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
I should have been using drugs all along!
According to the article, they only "temporarily" lost IQ points.
So you'll be fine as soon as you stop using the internet...
This is only the result of using M$ applications and playing games in stead of studying/reading.
No big deal... As it was previously stated, "it just works!" and nobody cares how and why. On the other hand, if you don't spend too much time playing, what else can you do but work/study ? When I say games, I don't mean mindgames, I mean something like violent RPG's / Shoot'em up.
Ok... So I'm blaming it on Microsoft... this is the only corporate name I can think of at this time but you get the point: Apps for lazy & long, dull games.
Either the kid study was horrible, or the sensationalist British press' explanation of it was. They simply compared performance of children with computers at home vs those without....apparently ignoring the other factors that go along with those characteristics. This says nothing about the ability of information technology to enhance the learning process. Perhaps those children with computers at home were more economically affluent in other ways and thus more mentally lazy and distracted by other entertainment items.
this story reminds me of a previous study where students without computers at home scored higher at school than those with. Computers are only a tool, not a solution like many think. When you can just (as mentioned earlier) google the answer your own problem solving skills as well as reading skills ( you have to be able to understand what you read to grasp the answer)and comprehension suffer. there is no substitute for actual work. do it the old fashoined wat and the information is likely to stay with you rather than if you just copy/paste.
Step out of the box and enjoy life
How in the world do you correct for all other factors and then go on to claim that computers make kids less intelligent than having 500 books in the household? Adding together all my fiction, reference, and technical books I barely break the 200 count. Aren't they really saying that kids in more affluent homes are smarter? And are they factoring in easy access to public libraries?
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
How about those kids that are forced to use Linux/Unix machines that force them to think and create instead of blindly clicking and receiving all?
I always thought IQ was a relatively static thing. Obviously, a person's intelligence changes over time, but IQ is adjusted for age. A 10-point drop in IQ means the person would have actually lost some kind of mental capacity.
I don't buy that at all.
Most likely, the added distractions in these people's lives just made the test more difficult for them. I highly doubt that these people actually became dumber. As someone mentioned earlier, this is most likely just some scientist making his data fit his hypothesis.
How do you fire up an email?
...spam to blame for this? And will this allow us to sue spammers for causing brain damage?
Update Watch - Automatic software update notification
I think my IQ just dropped 10 points after reading this article. Thanks again slashdot!!!
I hear that it's 45 points for frequent Slashdot posting.
Well I have more free time since the operation!
Transcend Humanity. Please.
Funded by ClearChannel and Fox?
fifth sigma, inc.
With Marijuana full IQ is quickly regained in a period of about 30 days after use is discontinued, is the same true for email?
Try going two or three weeks with no sexual contact at all and then take an IQ and tell me how you score :-P
Heheheheheehehhehe heheheheheheheheheehheheeeee
hehehehehehehehe hehehe heheheheheeheeeehehehehehehe!
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
No I'm... doesn't.
How much will my IQ drop using email stoned?
That reading the Guardian lowers your IQ.
Substantially.
ATH0 Bitcoin: 1DnwFLXczVZV8kLJbMYoheUrpqHesjxrSi
I MEEN OMG!!! DOES U LOSE ALL THOOSE QI PTS 4 EMALING LIKE THIS!?!?!?!?!?! Seriously, If you are going to use e-mail like a retard then it probably does make you stupid. For some reason people seem to think that because it's an e-mail grammar, punctuation and spelling can go out of the window. It's just like text messaging short hand. I try where possible to write e-mails, text messages and instant messages with reasonable grammar, spelling and punctuation. It takes a little more time, but you soon learn to type faster and more accurately because of it. There was a case in Britain not long ago where a student wrote an entire essay for their GCSE's (exams for 16yr olds) in txt message short hand. I believe that the sudden proliferation of new means of communication (txt messages, e-mails and IMs) mean that children learn txt short hand before learning grammar or typing skills. This means that they end up with some ugly short hand with no spelling required (since anything in the ballpark will let the reader know roughly what you're trying to say) and no grammar skills. Since most of them will be using txts and IMs before actually studying them in class it's no wonder that the fail to learn the correct way of doing things.
one every minute!
i've been herbalizing for years and i have an above average IQ. that's like saying that...um...crap, what were we talking about?
It takes just a moment and an action to destroy. It takes some time and thought to create.
Im doubly screwed.
I have a friend "back home" that is a habitual Marijauna user, and is a wiz at math and economics. This guy, when sober, is the "witty comeback" king, and is a very cool and nice guy. When stoned, he's just laid back and relaxed, and constantly coming up with different ways of making even more money.
I realize that not all people have this reaction, but I have to tell ya that it makes me wish that the government would legalize the stuff (it's not any more harmful than alcohol, for cryin' out loud!) so that I could toke too!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
No wonder my eyes get bloodshot, my eye lids droop and I get the munchies when I read email!
"Hey, man...pass that email over here...read, read, give man...you know the rule!"
"It's not rocket science, Smithers! It's only brain surgery!" --Mr. Burns
I myself am 14 years old, when in was 12, i had amazing scores on tests and other school related things, however after i have gotten more into computers (iv built 3 for myself, 10 for friends) my schoolwork has declined. However blaming this on email, for me at least, is stupid. Its not email that hurts my schoolwork, it is computers in general. They are just so damn interesting, i have learned more from my time on computers then i ever have in school, the only poblem is, i am not learning about the metric system, i am teaching myself astrophysics and reading steaven hawlking, instead of shakspear.
I would like to do better in school, however i find it very hard for me to motivate myself to do my science homework, because i already know it, and if i am not learning something new, i have signifigently less entergy to put into it. There is no cure, as far as i can see it, besides throwing away my computer, which i will never do.
Its depressing, in a way, to go from A's to C's, but at the same time, i am learning a much more valuable skill and learning about more interesting things which also have use in the world.
For me, its not Email that is killing my schoolwork, it is information. I have a drive to seek out info, and thanks to the internet, There is more information out there that i wish to learn then i can without my school work suffering.
The only mention of marijuana is in the title. The study doesn't mention this, only the writer of the article. Perhaps it's an attention getter, but certainly not scientific evidence.
Whoah - I just had a thought. What happens when you know, like, email while stoned? Or Slashdot stoned. Oh, oh! Email a Slashdot story about maryjane while getting stoned. Really stoned. No, I mean, like TOTALLY stoned. Dude.
is revolting. If you're naturally lazy or stupid and you use the computer, play video games, email obsessively, or smoke pot to excess, yes, you're going to get caught in it and probably get stupider over time.
But if you're naturally smart or motivated, the opposite is true. I've known people that smoked pot all through college and graduated early with amazing grades. I'm sure amongst the people you know, you can think of the video game addict that gets all A's and the video game addict that flunked out years ago.
These things are just enablers. That's why, especially with pot, you should be of sound mind and body before you turn the machine on or pack the pipe. It makes the difference between expanding your mind and escaping from it.
"[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
Since when did Cannibus make you stupid?
It's not that the potential isn't there for any of the technologies, but humanity has a governor, just like the Briggs & Stratton on my old go kart. It's called the 'Lowest Common Denominator.' One individual can reason in a unique manner that can advance the frontiers of human understanding, while a mob is well known for its inability to reason except in the most primative manner. The more connected we become, the more LCD we are tied to. The technology is inevitably bent to the will of the masses, regardless of the vision of the few.
Properly used, a search engine has the potential to function as an intelligence amplifier, but that way requires hard work and a singular vision which reaches outside the common vision. It's so much easier to just kick back and go with the flow. But each of the things that really changed the world were brought about through the individual thoughts of one person, who eventually shared it with a small group. For lack of a better term, an outsider, separate from the common environment; but somehow capable of seeing something that no one else was able to see and to carry through and realize.
So, for the vast majority of those out there who unconsciously embrace mediocrity, being dumber is just another wave of the cool. While those of us who seek truth on a Friday night, discuss the realization of the possible. They're just a tool. They can help the smart get smarter, and the dumb to get dumber. Depending on what you were after in the first place. It is all a matter of choice.
"Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
Reading your email will hurt your I.Q. level? Thats rather weird. Here's my tale on it :
:
:
It not so much the email itself which is harmfull, but more the used email client and its environment, Operating System if you like. I use pine or mutt for reading my email, combined with an intelligent antispam program on my email server.
reading email with pine or mutt is like reading your daily headlines in ascii format. The pine program has some nice features which able you to select certain emails with a few keystrokes. So if you get a lot of emails from a certain maillinglist which start with Subject [linux-cooks] you can select them with
; (SELECT criteria) -> T(ext) -> S(ubject) ->
String in message SUBJECT to match : [linux-cooks]
[Select matched 507 messages!]
Wow thats nice, and now you save them in a folder linux-cooks
A (APPLY command:) -> S(ave) ->
SAVE 507 msgs to folder [saved-messages] : linux-cooks
next it asks if you want to delete these 507 messages... rather handy if you want to clean-up your INBOX of make it smaller quick. certainly is you can select a lot of Trash email using the ; method.
My conclusion is that using such an email client won't harm your I.Q. . On windows one uses Outlook which is a rather obsessive with taking over all key tasks from the person behind the PC. The only thing which is left out , is the viewing and reading itself.
I would describe Outlook as the email client which even holds your willy when taking a leak. Rather abusrd, but also , when taking in mind that the windows desktop with its looks, views, wizards and graphics comes pretty close to a destructive brainwash. A brainwash which is rather effective in switching off the last really functional braincells.
Robert
IQ tests are subject to too many variables. I generally write in the 140s but when I spent a few weeks studying IQ tests I upped my score to 160. Plus memory plays a big role. If you can recall a question type, a solution comes much more quickly. I've spent much of my life in Vancouver, Canada, noted for the potency of its pot. I don't smoke often but also I haven't noticed any deleterious effects. Interestingly psilocybin mushrooms, which I've also experimented with, along with LSD, have recently been shown to be very close to seritoninin their chemical makeup. One of the strange characteristics of mushrooms and LSD is that they tend to induce geometric halllucinations. While it's completely off the wall as conjecture, it's fun to note that nearly, perhaps all, ancient civilizations used hallucinogens, so it may be that our unusual, perhaps unique, method of analysing the world geometrically, in terms of Euclidean geometry for example, may have had its start from the use of drugs.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
My e-mail makes me smarter!! Then again, that's mostly because it's on linux and it's a pain to get to it, access it, etc
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
You know, it would have been better if they published this study on Wednesday, I mean, for obvious reasons.
"Being lazy and smart does not necessarily equate to being stupid."
True. However "lazy" and "stupid" have been seen sleeping together. While "smart" would not be caught dead being in the same room with "stupid".
we loose the skill to do it manually. the same is said about calculators, and power saws.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
I think this statement in general would apply to the youth who are the type who use AIM, browse for cheap porn sites, and have names like XxXIr0xNoobS in Counterstrike.
:)
(Most) of us geeks are still well above average in the intelligence spectrum
I guess that explains why I walk around the house in the morning and feel like I'm in a permanant vegetative state.
Seriously though, when I graduated from high school, just a mere 18 years ago, we had no such things as cellphones, and gadgets and doohickies and whatnot to distract us from the all important task of learning.
As for computers, too much emphasis is placed nowadays on being able to 'use it' and not enough on why one needs to use it in the first place. Until probably as recently as 10 years ago, there were still books and libraries to go to, but now everything is geared toward breeding a generation that can't be bothered with actually working for the answer, and education in 2005 requires internet access in the home. You need to do a book report on subject whatever, google-search, read up on it, keep doing a search until you find someone who has already solved the problem for you, then do the report. That to some is learning. There is a distinctive difference between a 'college' and a 'university' and one teaches you 'things', the other teaches you how to 'think'. When it comes to learning, it's essential to reinvent the wheel, again and again, and again until reinventing the wheel is as natural as breathing. The only way to make smarter people is to make them think for themselves. By getting someone to crack open a book and do some reading on the facts and only the facts, it gives the reader a chance to think out the problem in their mind rather than accept whatever opinion on the subject they happen to come across.
I look at the university entrance exam my dad wrote when he applied and in all honesty it's so far over my head, I have no idea what the question is asking. There seems to have been a pretty serious slip in mental discipline over the decades, computers and TV are only adding to the problem.
Also, I challenge anyone to find a child (under 18) who will primarily use the computer for actual work (study) as opposed to playing games, instant messaging and other such activities. The life of today's teen hardly requires a storm of neural activity anymore, so it's no big surprise to me that there's an apparent "problem-solving deficit disorder" observed in children who use computers.
Maybe it is just people who respond to email surveys that have 10 points lower IQ.
A bit like people who post on slashdot.
- PS. This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R where eliminated.
I personally have introduced computers to thousands of people over the last 12 years and I've noticed that stupid people stay stupid while smart people stay smart. There are of course exceptions... like the smart guy who decides crack could be fun, heh.
IQ is not set in stone, just like your genes will not determine the exact color of your hair. Your genes might be for brown hair, but in the summer it gets a few shades lighter. IQ is the same way, genetics may establish a boundry, a high and a low. After that, environment determines the rest.
I knew in high school a kid who came from a family of two drooling idiots. His father was a jackass who drank away his life. He had trouble putting together two sentances. His mother was a complete whore. She was such a whore she stopped trying to hide it. But the kid went on to do well, went to a respectable college and good job.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Send people to most cubicle infested business workplaces and watch the artifical lighting, crappy airconditioning and lack of motivation bring their IQ much lower.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
legalize marijuana and outlaw email...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Perhaps instead of the classical past let's memorize everything, everyone is simply learning a new way of thinking. Instead of keeping all of the information inside of ones head, just remember where you can find the information. It saves mental disk space and allows one to have more of a personality instead of a mindless drone spewing out facts and figures to anyone that will listen just to feel more intelligent when no one gives a damn. It takes some time to adjust to the way most were taught in school to a new way of thought.
I have trouble buying this.
I think a more important question is whether IQ and academic grades are a true measure of intelligence in general.
Moreover just because the people in the study used email, it does not mean that email is the cause for their drop in IQ score.
"This food is problematic."
This one goes to my girlfriend... As far as I know, she doesn't even have email. And she's not one for tech stuff. Damn computer lit classes.
There's an old saying that says pretty much whatever you want it to.
This is probably the shining comment in an otherwise hazy thread.
Sure the internet can make you more intelligent if you spend your time reading Wolfram Mathworld, Scientific American, Project Gutenburg texts, and Wikipedia...but who does?
SciAm I skip because it costs money. But I read at least one Wikipedia article per day, if not a dozen to research an informative answer for a Slashdot comment.
The fact that the parent is modded +5 Insightful just reeks of rationalization.
What ever happened to Myst? Simcity has at least some value but it's not terribly popular (I guess it requires too much thought?)
I am Spartacus
i personally think because of calculators, our basic mathematical skills have gone downhill. when you need a calculator to do 27-12, you know you're in trouble.
my substraction is the worse of all for some weird reason. i can do multiplication, division, and addition without much problem. of course calculators make it faster. but my substraction has deteriorated to that point where single digit substraction still takes me a couple seconds.
HD Trailers
According to slashdot, Email makes you dumb but E-mail can be used as a database.
Maybe I should start using a hyphen. That will make me smarter, right?
Of course i'm only kidding, drugs are actually extremely bad for kids with developing brains.
But anyways, why even lie to your son? You don't want to break his trust on something so stupid, especially when he will eventually learn to download games on the internet or borrow them from his friend which will restart the same problem. Instead, you should teach him some responsiblity and time management skills by making him finish his school work before he plays games. It's called will power. If he never develops these skills he may be just as bad in college regarding disipline for school work. Teach them everything you can in their early years.
Replace the game with educational tools such as:
1. The gcc compiler
2. The perl interpreter
3. The PHP interpreter
4. The Python interpreter
5. All of the various libraries
6. The kernel development packages
7. The kernel sources
Cleara
Wait a second... This goes beyond weed and email. This is society as a whole. Now of days all I have to do is go someplace public and watch other people, I feel dumber then ever when I see what people do.
If there was a way that big corperations could make money off this solution I'm sure it would be up for a vote in Congress rather quickly.
This sig will make it clear that ANYONE can use this post for ANY purpose WITHOUT the written consent of the NFL.
Heh.... I've been using a computer since I was two and I don't think anything bad happened to me.
Maybee I'm just super smart, and if thats so, I suppose that I would be one of those child prodigy people that everyone is so proud of if I didn't use email and instant messaging applications. hehehe....
If con is the opposite of pro. Then isn't congress the opposite of progress?
I wonder which OS was used in the study. Since MSWindows has by far the predominant desktop market share, I am surprised sensationalism hasn't won the day once again.
Winderz == teh stoopidz!
the internet IQ test told me so
the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
You have to realize the education many kids receive in school tends to be a broad range of subjects; science, history, english, math, etc. When kids usually go to computers, they get completely involved in what they are doing they question the point of the other subjects. During school I remember I was learning more about HTML, CSS, PHP, Cocoa than I was with any other subject available at school. It seemed more interesting to me. Perhaps the fact that we provide generalized/broad education to kids rather than specialized/focused education is a reason for blame?
That's unpossible!
Now my inbox is going to be filled by spam with subjects like "Raise your IQ 10 points!"
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
to "crackberry"
"I thought they were the dominant species..."
Wonder what spam does to your IQ?
... to the notion that email, and internet useage in general degrades intelligence.
... record AUDIO or MIDI?
Just check a few forums related to using even marginally sophisticated consumer electronics.
There are far too many post from clueless newbs whose FIRST response - when they encounter a difficulty in operating something - is to post the rough equivalent of "how come my MP3 player don't sound as good as regular CDs" (or worse).
The assumption - as The Register article suggests - is a confusion between "knowing some facts", and having knowledge or skills.
A recent exchange on an elecronic music forum went something like this:
Q: I just got a XSR32000 keybore (sic) and it sounds awesome. How do I hook it up to my computer to record my beats?
A: By "record", do you mean record AUDIO or MIDI data.
Q: Oh, theres a MIDI thing on there is that how I hook it up?
A: It depends. Do you want to record MIDI or AUDIO?
Q: MIDI I guess. What's the difference?
A: AUDIO is really just like recording the sound. MIDI is recording the data of your performance, like when you hit a key or release a key, etc.
Q: So, if I get a MIDI for it, that's all I need?
A: All you need to do what
Q: I don't know about technical things like that, I'm a musician not a computer geek. I just wanna record my beats. What do I need to get to hook it up like that?
A: It's not just a matter of buying the right cables. You need to have an idea of what you want to accomplish, get the right software as well, learn to USE it properly, etc.
Q: Well, like I said I don't know about technical stuff. It can't be all that hard. I just gotta like hook up the right adapter or something right?
A: NO, it's not just about "getting the right adapter".
Q: Jeez, is anybody here who can help me?
And so it goes. This is a TYPICAL opening post. I don't know if email and the internet create stupidity or simply reveal it, by allowing idiots easier access to a wider audience.
Making it easier to find certain kinds of facts easier could certainly mask deficits in reading or even logical/critical faculties in some cases.
I wrote my MA thesis ( link ) on a related subject, computers and writing. Though more geeky than most teachers, I firmly believe that computers have no place in the education curriculum. Now, as part of a technology core, or school-to-career, or electives, fine. But absolutely nowhere near a core classes. Okay, a little bias here because I teach history as well as programming, but students need to read books and learn to write the old fashion way. I am not surprised by the results, only that it is taking this ling for some common sense to creep back into the thinking. Considering how much money and effort from all sectors of the industry (including /.'s beloved Apple. disclaimer: I own two ibooks.) has been pumped into education, it should not shock anyone the level of beholdeness to technology that permeates our schools. For far too many teachers, a project is now powerpoint, and the lab is a week off. I really do want to scream.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spurious_relationship :
In statistics, a spurious relationship (or, sometimes, spurious correlation) is a mathematical relationship in which two occurrences have no logical connection, yet it may be implied that they do, due to a certain third, unseen factor (referred to as a "confounding factor" or "lurking variable"). The spurious relationship gives an impression of a worthy link between two groups that is invalid when objectively examined.
Or for a logical analysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_implies_c ausation_(logical_fallacy)
i really wish all the people saying "legalize pot" would stfu already.
get it people. IT IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!
And it has nothing to do with getting high. Thats just the catch they used to sell the idea of banning it.
As simple as it gets: Hemp oil could be used to make gasoline.
never never in a million years. so long as the dollar is king will pot be legal. ever!
I smoke more than anyone. but thats no excuse for being blind and ignorant to how the world works.
Who else is feeling bad for the old people in Korea?
Direct away from face when opening.
It appears you've already forgotten your name, since you're posting AC.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Do you Love your kid?
Some arguments that Maddox raises in this article about discipline do make sense. His site isn't to be taken seriously but that isn't to say that he never raises any good arguments. I agree with his last statement:
Remember: never take shit from your kids. You make payments on the house, utilities, their clothes, school, and their food. You own them. If they don't like it, they can move out. If you love your kids, love them enough to beat them so that they don't grow up to be idiots.
people don't know the difference between discipline and child abuse.
Kids today certainly aren't like what we used to be when I was 8-10 yrs old. For one thing, they seem more spoiled. Are parents getting too soft?
I thought your post was very interesting. I happen to have a brilliant 5 year old nephew (who recently declared that "the Easter Bunny is nocturnal!") and even though I am a big videogame fan, I have been wary of exposing him to games for this reason among others. (Thankfully, I guess, his father is more into sports than games.)
A few months ago I might have criticized your decision, but the truth is that "beginnings matter" and exposure to some experiences too early (especially those that tap too well into the very punishment/reward mechanism of the brain) is probably not advisable.
I currently play World of Warcraft and there are times when hours pass and I feel bitter about the "loss of time". Beware of addictive timesucks that leave you nothing to show, but "levels"...
Anyone else read this as "Snail Worse Than Marijuana For Intelligence?"
I was like, well in that case, it wasn't like I ate snails all that much anyway.
Why as people must we always place the blame on machines? Why can't we say that some people will always have more motivation to grow than others? This is just another example of parents passing the buck.
I'd love to see what watching "Reality TV" does to the IQ, it probably drops your IQ by 90 points or more.
But in all seriousness, Computers are just a Tool nothing else. I remember being told as a kid "No Video Games till the homework was done" and this was enforced. And time to time my mom would shut of the computer and send me out of the house. Its all part of this thing called parenting. Making sure you kid has a balanced life, and just not assuming they do.
The other funny thing I notice is they say cannabis drops by the IQ by 4 points but study's I've read stated that it vary anywhere from 5 to 10 points, and that the IQ drop lasts for about 6 months after you have quit using cannabis. I wounder how long this so called IQ drop lasts with computers.
Remember its called self discipline. The ability to tear yourself away from the computer, shouldn't be that big a deal.
Most of us were weaned on the machines, so howmuch dumbness have we collected as a whole?
..and both.
:P
They just can't talk about it. All blaming games and pot for making people stupid is remove ALL your credibility amoung those who are independantly minded enough to look around them at who's smoking up and/or playing games.
I've given up on the majority. Jeebus and Beer for them, in the meantime, just don't get caught.
All those messages full of misspelled text, improper punctuation and improper grammar take a toll on the brain.
This sig no verb.
I think IQ tests are geard towards another kind of puzzle solving skills that kids don't have to deal with today. How many of the tasks on an IQ test have to deal with filtering out information, or finding information on a computer? I'll bet that these subjects would score better on computer-related tasks.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
"" Use an attention getting tone to make users answer email. Ensure that there is some small reward to encourage addictive behavior. The result will be that users become numb/stupid and buy more of your software.""
Heres a funny idea... you could try what threw me off of games for good... it either involves getting him only games that are far far too difficult for him to succeed at, or decreasing the stability of his computer.
The first part of this, is what drove me away from first-person-shooters. The way to do this, is switch his mouse for one thats really glitchy (as was mine), then insist it works fine if he asks. Or mess with the drivers. I gave up on countless games because i actually sucked, so simulating suckyness should also work.
Also, i gave up on almost all modern games, because of how unreliable Window$ runs on my PC (i think its driver related). ANyways, you find some messed up drivers/DLL's for various components, and make a switch! Youd have to get rid of DLL caches and backups, etc. A nice one, would be to mess with windows networking... its already messed up! But once thats done, he will become so FED UP with reinstalling things and the computer crashing, that he will develop a disdain for Games, AND Microsoft windows.
Then (this didnt happen to me) give him a Macintosh for christmas, with creative software on it.
I've been teaching math and programming to high school students this year, and I like to have kids solve problems in which the answer can be typed into a computer. There are two really different approaches that I see kids use: the clueless kids who can't solve problems demand to be told what numbers to plug in where and I usually tell them instead of failing them and going to war with their parents. Others actually *come up with their own method* of solving the problem. I think the latter group is learning as fast or faster than any group of kids in history. The former is obviously not learning much at all. Not surprisingly, the students who come up with their own method can do well on cumulative tests without studying, and the others spend hours trying to memorize how to do each problem and still do poorly. It's actually kind of sad, but I'm not sure how to change the attitudes of the ones who refuse to develop their problem solving skills. I guess I blame the parents.
He still loves going outside to play in the sandbox and playing soccer. He interacts with other children. His vocabulary is absolutely incredible... just today I asked him something and he replied "That is correct.". He sometimes complains "This game is much to complicated for a little kid like me". He can work our VCR and DVD player, knows the basics of opening, minimizing, maximizing, and closing windows. He knows that mommies computer runs "windows" and daddies runs "linux". He spends hours playing with any toys he gets his hands on, making up elaborate stories and situations.
So, is my child losing IQ points from computer usage? I think he is gaining them at a much faster pace than other kids his age. A real geek in the making.
Meh.
Games addictive? I don't buy it. It sounds to me like your friends don't have an addiction problem, they have a self-discipline problem. They want to forego stuff that is important but hard in favor of stuff that is entertaining and easy. It's a simple matter of short-term gratification (another level) versus long-term satisfaction (a degree). That paper can always be written tomorrow, one can always cram for the next exam, but my guildmates need me NOW!
If I were a betting man, I would wager that if they weren't invovled in Everquest, they would have found some other diversion to consume their time and cause them to drop out of college.
...when I stopped reading the article after the third paragraph and checked my email.
He who reflects on another man`s want of breeding, shows he wants it as much himself --Julius Caesar, per Plutarch
this kind of bullshit research really makes me angry. the gaming has nothing to do with it. if parents allowed their kids to get all wrapped up in flicking rubber bands the effect would be the same. this kind of FUD is designed to make todays poor parents feel absolved of responsibility for their crumbing parenting and its effect on thier children. so yes, lets just blame computers! the same way we blamed TV and what ever was the fashion before that.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Because it would *gasp* suggest that their is actually something even worse than pot. Our nation's drug laws (and the stuff that they actually *allow* to be legal) are a good example of some of the stupidity that goes on here. It's like the Civil War and Prohibition rolled up together and stuffed into a pork barrel.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
... Of the article in question.
Maybe you should cut back on the e-mail! The united states imports thousands of barrels of oil per day. This is a HUGE expense. Don't you think the US would like to be free of Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East. Don't you think they would want to be self sufficient? THere must be some other reason why pot is still illegal, either that or no it *can't* be used to make gasoline.
Le français vous intéresse?
George: You know, Louise. I think you'll find this amusing. In early Euclidean geometry--
Louise: George, I have to have sex.
George: I used to share that same outlook. But now, I have so many things to occupy my mind. For instance, the atom.
Louise: Goodbye, George. I hate you.
George: What a fascinating turn of events.
Waitress: Mas Caf??
George: Si, por favor.
Don't lie to your kid.
There is no need to remove the game.
Limit his time on the game, use it as reward and punishment. If he won't respond to you when he is playing pull the plug out of the wall, it will get his immediate attention. Learn to say NO, don't appoligise for saying NO, and follow through. Your kid will have alot more respect for you in the long run.
I'm a child of the fifties, it may be wussier today but I'm glad bashing your kids has become an unacceptable practice.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I can only imagine what having a toke and reading slashdot for hours will do to me.
>And legalize pot
Not to mention, the IQ drop is a government myth. The cherry-picked studies which show this have some seriously flawed methodology like graduate students tested against off-the-street stoners. If you can keep producing results that show marijuana in a negative light you can some nice grants from the government.
I wonder what happens to pot smokers who also use the internet and watch tv.
I'm serious when I say if they made some of the old Sierra and LucasArts adventure games part of the school computer class - problem solving and logic skills as well as typing and grammar would improve!
Yet again, it seems as if my brain is wired back to front. I'm sure that, over the past fifteen years or so, computers have just made me smarter (it's either that or the pot, heh heh).
"I think this is the big thing: educational games are dead, except for stupid multimedia treehouse and barbie games."
Well don't you know? OSS will be a glimmer of hope in the educational market.
Gmail and some other firms are providing huge mailboxes to make people more stupid and take over the world! Yeah. That's their masterplan to take over the world.
Oh! No! Wait. According to this Slashdot story the just providing many space for big databases.
Dammed. I just burnt my keyboard with my cigarette. (I should not write so much email's)
chris
"Oh man, this e-mail shit is the shit, man! Here, you can finish up my inbox, if I take anymore I'm gonna pass out. Watch out though, I think the dealer laced it with spam. Tommorow I'm gonna hit some of that Slashdot."
And then 314 (Pi day) becomes the new 420 where you do nothing but read geek news all day. By the end of it you'll feel music, smell colours... taste pi...
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
argh! sorry. thats the right url http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/05/04/22 /2048224.shtml?tid=126&tid=221
chris
I will forever be greatful to 2 excellent high school teachers I had (in public school no less!), 1 in math (pre-calc, calc) and 1 in chemistry (chem1 and chem2AP). They wouldn't let us use calculators for anything, not on tests, not on homework, no where. This forced us to get good at doing all sorts of mathmatics in our heads, and to come up with creative solutions if we couldn't remember the specific function/equation to apply to a problem.
I often times would have to work around some equation I couldn't remember and basically derive the equation from smaller building blocks. This gave me a much greater understanding of the actual processes going on. This kind of problem solving/understanding completely disappears when children can use calculators to simply "get the right answer", but the important thing in the maths and sciences is not necessarily the answer, but the process of getting there, and the ability to problem solve, which has completely disappeared in US middle and high schools.
Wow. I'm a Washingtonian (state, that is), and I though the Evergreen State jokes were only known locally! :)
There's more to life than testing and saying cannabis adversely affects your intelligence is like say the Beatles couldn't write songs.
I haven't read the study beyond the linked article, but personally I suspect that the whole problem extends far beyond email use.
Western society is built on distractions, and on interrupting people from what they're doing, much of which is to do with commercialism. For instance:
It doesn't surprise me at all that people's attitudes to doing things have been changing quite dramatically, and it seems quite feasible that the effects of this on people's wellbeing could be negative. Emails popping up and being addressed are just an extension of everything else that's been happening with advances in technology and societial attitudes.
I would love a tool, similar to the one that you suggest, that encourages being able to focus on things. I'm not entirely sure how it could be guaranteed to work, though. To me, many of the possible problems seem to be embedded quite heavily in the way that society now works.
Meanwhile, I think I'll try forcing myself to concentrate more by shutting down lots of other things while I'm browsing slashdot. It's a shame they're so easy to start up again.
sorry but i've had enough of this: firstly: an orignial copy of the article which surfaced not too long ago. http://www.canoe.ca/Health0204/01_dope-cp.html Marijuana use is shown to have no adverse effects on IQ performance in the long term. The psychoactive properties of THC result from its triggering of anandamide receptors in the brain. Anandamide is one of the chemicals directly responsible for the regulation of how information is stored in memory. Soooo....this would explain why marijuan would have a temporarily detremental effect on IQ test performance. IQ tests typically measure skillsets like logical analysis and spatial abilty which require extensive use of short-term memory. If you're short-term ememory is not functioning in excatly the way you're used to, you might possibly find such questions more difficult. Other distractors like email or naked women or whatever would essentially do the same thing. IQ tests in general (like SATS and other standardized tests) measure ONE THING ONLY: how well you perform on IQ tests. The idea that IQ is any kind of measure of intelligence is absurd. Binet,the creator of the test, never ever claimed it to be a measurement of intelligence, but merely an analytical tool to aid teachers identify those young children who might not be predisposed to learn in the same way as the rest of the flock.
Maybe those people who say, "SPAM doesn't really hurt anybody" will listen to this?
Nah. The people who think that are already too stupid for a 10 point drop in IQ to really make much of a difference.
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
I presume you've read the actual study, then, and would be able to confirm for all of us that it hasn't been mis-reported in popular media, as studies related to topics like this so often are.
Could you please let me know where I can find the study? The article wasn't very specific about where it's published or the details of exactly what it claims, and I'd like to see for myself.
It's worse than toxic.
E-mail just say "No!"
This is why college is worthless.
Its time to do some coding....
...FUck you, I don't do what you tell me. ......FUck you, I don't do what you tell me.
FUck you, I don't do what you tell me.
FUCK YOU, I don't do what you tell me.
FUCK YOU, I WONT DO what you tell me.
FUCK YOU, I WONT DO WHAT YOU TELL ME
chmod it so that he can't play and tell him he can play again as soon as he a) gets his grades back up, or b) figures out a privilege escalation attack to chmod it back. Either way you'll be proud as hell. ;-)
Actually, Microsoft does have a MSN Entertainment division which is as creative as Apple. Having interned at Microsoft and having spoken with many people in different divisions, I came to conclusion that I should work in MSN Entertainment if I want to unleash creativity. Join other divisions of you want to be an "Office Space" coder.
Man, I can relate. MUDs, BBSing, IRC, there went much of highschool and early college. Especially the early chunk of college since all my CS classes had nice little telnet connections, only when I switched majors (and lost the in-class telnet) did my grades improve.
/. to take up all my time. Where would we be without the internet, I don't know, but I am sure that we all would be more productive. (world peace or /. ... hmmmmm)
I broke up with one of my first g/fs because "I was about to level" on Genocide. I spent more time learning how to code on a MUSH (and later a pirated Diku) than I ever sunk into schooling.
I guess now that I'm a mature adult, I can depend of
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Doziness, lethargy and an increasing inability to focus reached "startling" levels in the trials by 1,100 people, who also demonstrated that IQ tests in particular have an addictive, drug-like grip.
Respondents' minds were all over the place as they faced new questions and challenges every time a new test was presented. Productivity at work was damaged and the effect on staff who could not resist trying to juggle IQ Tests with existing work was the equivalent, over a day, to the loss of a night's sleep.
My son is about a year old. My wife became pregnant before we got married, so you might say he was unforeseen.
There are two things about watching people parent that never cease to amaze me.
The first is how many people can rise to the occasion and do a good job when it is not what one would expect of them.
The second is how otherwise intelligent and responsible people can completely fail to take responsibility for how their actions affect their children.
So I say that parenting is never something that people are ready for. It is something that people can rise up to do. But before you have a child of oyur own, you are simply unprepaired.
Now on to the rest of the discussion. The metaphore I use in looking at this is that of social laws and rules. If the government were to "accidently" confiscated our cars or our houses, we would have a fit and rightly so. If, however, this was based upon a conviction in a court of law, it would be different. One of the most difficult aspects of family building is focusing on how to create a system of rules which helps foster growth. These rules need to be in the open, and easily understood.
If your child is playing too many computer games, first talk to your child about it. Set rules regarding when your child is allowed to play the game and under what circumstances. If this fails, let the child know that the game will be uninstalled. Give, say, three opportunities for failure. If the game is abused such that the conversation must repeat three times, the game gets uninstalled. Make sure that this is all done in the open and that the system is transparent.
One of the most difficult things to do sometimes is to have enough respect for your kids to think that maybe they actually need to know why you are doing something.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
I'm just curious, what is it with slashdotters (of course not all) and pot? Why is pot so _good_? IMHO I like having control of myself and thus I don't drink excessively nor do I do any drugs. But what are your arguments for pot being so good?
I don't really think that computers have ever been great teaching enhancers. During university, I learned the most actively when the prof was lecturing directly using chalk and a blackboard. Overheads, PowerPoint slides, or tablet PC presentations just caused too much passive observation.
Computers can be of tremendous educational value if the child is learning more about the machine itself by learning to program, for instance. Instead, look at all the mindless computer uses that we get into: IM, gaming, stupid e-mail forwards, slashdot moderation...
There goes my karma and mod points...
I'm going to the casino. Don't gamble.
If your ability to use standard English grammar and spelling is predicated on the use of spell-checkers, then consider this:
When I was your age, I used a typewriter, and was damned glad it was electric, and had error-correction cartridges so I didn't have to use white-out. A few years later, when I was in college, I couldn't even use a computer myself: I had to punch cards and take them to the Data Processing priests, who would take them into the Inner Temple and add the Holy Job Control Cards that blessed my jobs unto the Almighty Mainframe. Then I'd come back hours later, or the next day, to get my printout and my stack of cards back. If I had a syntax error, I would have to fix that and repeat the process. I had no choice but to proofread my own work before submitting it.And I walked several miles to school every day, uphill both ways! And I LIKED IT! Damn whippersnappers....
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
How many IQ points do you drop when you subscribe to the Guardian?
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
You are a sick son of a bitch.
I do believe in keeping kids under control, keping them accountable for their actions, teaching them right and wrong, good and bad, and basic concepts like the respecting the rights of other people, being responsible, and a whole host of other things. But I never, EVER want to see kids hit, beat, or spanked. It should be a criminal act to abuse a child in that manner.
Sick ideas like this are the reason I refuse to have children.
6 + 16 = ???
There's nothing to show that these effects are permanent, or that the results are relevant. IQ tests only prove who tends to score higher at IQ tests. When the brain has been focusing on the communication parts of their brain, and abstract juggling of issues presented by email, its not going to be focused sufficently to do well at solving IQ puzzles which require different type of mental function. The problem is that Slashdot readers are morons. They read a title that says "Email causes IQ drop" and immediately presume email must be bad. I can use the same logic to say being a jock drops your IQ by 10 points. If you spend most of your time in athletic activity, and don't mentally exercise yourself in a manner that lends itself to improved performance in IQ tests, I'm sure you'll suffer a similar drop in IQ over time. I find it a interesting study in terms of the questions it generates. But it doesn't mean much to me, other than if I want to do well on an IQ or SAT test, I should stay away from email or computer games for one day before the test.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
I forgot to bring up the most important point of that post. That exemplar of journalism called the Register then claims computers have made kids perform worse in school.
The reality is that kids accomplish less in school than in previous years is because American public schools are declining in educational quality, not that the kids are using computers. Public schools when I was growing up were already neglecting non-curicula specific training. There were articles in the late '80s and early '90s critical of public schools for the decreased critical thinking skills of its graduates. It was easier, more quantifiable, and discouraged independent thought (which improves control) by just making kids memorize more and call it education.
Bush Jr. then proceeds to contribute to this decline by mandating national testing for children and penalizing schools by witholding funding if they underperform on the test. The school systems are now forced to spend educational time on improving test performance, not critical thinking or teaching material not found on that test.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
...I have to say the same thing. Computers or television do not rot your brain. They CAN rot your brain, but it's not a requirement. When it comes to kids, as long as you are a good parent and use the computer or watch TV *WITH* your kid, and control their habits they will be fine. I grew up watching a lot of TV, but it had no effect on me. And because I wasn't restricted from it because it was "evil", I didn't develop the addiction that a lot of people have. It all comes down to good parenting.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
%s/whinge/whine/g
Here is a great problemsolving game in witch you construct bridges:
h tm
:)
http://www.chroniclogic.com/index.htm?pontifex.
I have bought it and played it lot. Its really fun.
Margarine is better for you than butter.
As animals, we're used to an immersive experience that involves all senses. Physical contact, smell, risk, fresh air! are all part of the game of reality. Electronic interaction may stimulate a small component of the mind, but all else is left to waste. And over time, it may, like Neo's muscles in The Matrix, simply wither away.
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
Typewriters are like horses; they are an approach to a basic problem that has disappeared without the users being aware of it.
I ask young people (15-25 yrs old) if they have ever used a typewriter. Most say yes, once or twice, as a novelity when their parents pulled it out of the closet.
Nobody likes them. Few young people can even imagine actually doing writing on one.
Personally I hated typewriters and I'm glad to see them go. I still do, however, have my slide rule...in the closet.
i read slashdot, nice title: E-mails worse than marijuana for IQ, 4 loss for marijuana, 10 for e-mail.
then i open my paper, what do i read??? SMS worse than cannabis for Iq, 4points loss for cannabis, 10 because of SMS...
since the figures are exactly the same, it's probably from the same source, anyone got a clue where these stories originated from?
While in 9th grade, high school, 1999, I had completed with a 3.89 GPA. This was also the beginning of my experience with computers, and subsequently, the internet.
By 10th grade I had gotten my own high-end pre built system, with gaming, IMing and all the other typical teenaged internet tasks at mind. My cum. GPA at the end of that year was a solid 3.5 including some honors classes.
At 11th, I had built my own rig and gotten cable internet - heightening the many brain atrophying tasks available to me. I engaged in them incessantly, at the expense of my health, hygene, social life, and grades. I had barely managed to keep a B average that year, lowering my cum. GPA to about 3.2.
By senior year I almost totally isolated myself from the real world. Social outings were rare and dispursed. My interest in school and life in general asymptotically decreased. I refused to engage in school related or other extracirricular activities - I avoided getting a senior picture taken, didn't order a year book, and didn't even go to the graduation ceremony; I had it sent to me in the mail. Cum. GPA at the end of this year, 3.01.
After graduation in 2003, despite modertly above average grades and SAT scores, I could only muster the motivation to bother completing one college application, to which I was accepted. I quickly realized I didn't want to go after visiting an orientation.
I now sit in my parents basement, to turn 20 years old in a month's time, taking basic community college courses with hopes of transfering to a 4 year university - and am still plagued with the dissinterested lack of motivation and anxiety to face reality that put me here in the first place.
What a pathetic faggot. I would recommend you don't let this happen to you or yours, especially if, like myself, they have any kind of antisocial proclivities.
we'll place you in the control group
Got a mod point for this parent? (NT)
-- My Weblog.
Well, if that's true, then Slashdot might be a haven of some of the most intelligent people on Earth!
:)
Wait a minute......
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
Margerine IS better for you, my peptic ulcer IS triggered by stress and WTF is an optimal kid?
I have 2 adult children (20 & 25) who are more than good friends. Yes I occasionally smacked them on the arse when they were little but somehow I managed not to beat them to a pulp. Corporal punishment (as in schools) can not adequately be controlled and from my first hand experience is normally an excuse for slow witted adults to miss-treat other peoples kids so as to make themselves feel powerfull. During my fisrt year at HS I saw the head master knock several teeth out of one kid with his fist, I also had a 3' blackboard ruler busted on my arse more than once. It was also common to get the "cane" (ie: A flexible piece of bamboo about 2-3' foot long brought into contact with your arse or hand with the full force of an adult). Kids did not respect these "adults" they were affraid of them. There have been two generations since I was at school and for the most part kids have still been turning into responsible adults somewhere between 16 and 26.
"Do I have a kid? Hell no, I realize what's involved" - Young men think old men are fools, old men know young men are fools.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Now I'm not a betting man, but... I'll take you up on that.
It relaxes you and puts you in a generally light mood. You find yourself thinking intensly on one subject or another (though you can't necesarily explain yourself because the thought is so intense there is no room to think of words). It's great for restless nights.
The best way I can think of it is it's like a soothing hum somewhere at the back of your head.
But I found a finger in my e-mail!
Firstly, I am happy that I see some people here reflecting critically on the problem. In fact, accepting that there is a problem at all. I expected to mainly see a mass slashdot deinal that there could be a problem with computers and learning.
I do wonder though, if the problem is really related to email at all. I personally suspect that the problem might instead be more systemic, in that a combination of shiny graphics, graphical games, the spell checker mentaility and a lack of social interaction aren't the problem.
In other words, would the same problem be prevalent in people who spend most of their time in a command line environment of vi, emacs, bash, mutt, lynx etc?
While I'm pretty sure that a lack of social interaction can make a social idiot of anyone, I have an idea that the world of computer graphics and easy user interaction can make people both lazy and more enveloped in their computer worlds.
A prime example in gaming is the classical hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy text game back in the dos days compared with the mindless fps games of today which have almost no intelligent thought behind the actual gameplay.
All that said, I'm pleased that people are finally starting to take notice of this. It's about time that the unquestionability of computers was questioned. I suspect though, that every major player in the computer world, including IBM, Microsoft, Apple, Intel and others, would try their best to get this pushed under the carpet.
The Internet Makes You Stupid.
"Many of today's debaters prefer "Fisking" - line-by-line rebuttals where facts are dropped like radar chaff - to rational debate or building a coherent argument." I don't know if I agree with this - if modern internet debate means that rhetoric and speechifying is increasingly being replaced with checkable facts, then I don't see that as a bad thing, even if it's less entertaining.
As predicted here...
Kids are so smart, be genuine... eventually they'll understand. Lies aren't necessary.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
However, if you work at a lower level, such as the CLI, or a programming language, your IQ will increase, because you are constntly finding new ways to do thinds.
...those kids sitting in front of that box reading about the mumbo-jumbo theory of evolution, while whey should be reading about the creation.
Outlaw it, they should.
If we translate the original study into physical terms the stupidity involved becomes obvious.
Suppose that you can pick up 400 lbs. If you pick up 200 lbs, you can now only pick up an additional 200 lbs.
If I now held this up as proof that weight lifting makes you weaker, everyone would quite properly say that I was an idiot for doing so.
That is exactly what this research has done; you only have so much mental capacity, if you use some of it to read an email, the remaining capacity is less than your maximum.
Evidently the original researcher read so many emails that his IQ (which is a measure of intellectual strength) was reduced to the level of a chimp.
So if I smoke grass and use email I have like 15% IQ lost? Damn it's time to do something against it... I'm gonna stop using email from now on!
-- All Gods were immortal.
-- S. Lem
There are so many.
/.ers it helps with their ADD or ADHD.
I would wager that for many
Not to mention being able to sleep on command is nice too. like when you have an early day tomorrow but your mind won't shutdown tonight. A little cannabis will let you get to bed early if you so desire.
oh and it makes TV bearable, movies watchable and music incredible.
Plus it's helps you see in the dark in your Mom's basement while playing everquest.
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on
I have World of Warcraft installed, and I play it like a fiend (i.e. most of the time I'm at home, and it is the one thing I will wake up early for). Despite this, I'm getting a +90% average in Grade 10 (well, I take physics (96%) at the 20 level, same for math (98%)), and I'm training to be a pilot, in which I'm about to go solo. If your kid is stupid, it means your kid is stupid, not that he/she is playing too many computer games. Stop trying to come up with excuses to make yourself feel better. Teach your kid how to handle multiple activities at once. I am handling World of Warcraft, High School, Freeciv 2, and pilot training, and manage to do well in all four. It's not so hard...
Tests of email using chimps reveal markedly higher intelligence when compared to their colleagues who favor termite sticks, howling, and ball scratching.
Marijuana smoking chimps show no decrease in intelligence, in some cases increased skill in opening refrigerators, and a distinct preference for porn over favor demanding live females.
Well that explains everything. My overuse of the phrase 'Hey Dude,' and my cravings for junk food while typing those mind altering emails. I think I'm even starting to look like Spicoli. Dudes.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
Such results give more insight about the validity of such studies than about anything related to either marijuana or email. Absurd.
I have saved tons of paper using email. Also, since I lost one of my lungs, I've cut my smoking in half. As far as video games go, I don't touch them. I also stay away from the TV. I suspect my intelligience is up since losing the TV. As a kid I smoked instead of doing my schoolwork. My intelligience did not go down, just my grades. In conclusion, smoke 'em up, stay away from TV, do your homework and don't use your email to roll with.
Let's compare obsessive-compulsive behavior with a negative recreational activity. There is no surprise here: high levels of self-imposed, long-term stress are bad for the mind. Comparing this with the gains of, say, learning to take a short walk or do some simple exercises in place of a couple of mail checks would have a better impact.
;)
Unless your real goal was to find an OK to use marijuana
IM and blogging, that surely takes 95 points off together.
problem-solving deficit disorder
Wow, a new excuse to drug kids has sprung. I wonder how much they're making on PDD pills? Do they have any drug-induced suicides under their belt yet?
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
Back when RTL was the hot new thing, buds and I were distracted to the detriment of our formal studies by bridge. Yep, the evils of CARDS. Protect your children from them at all cost lest the develop into gamblers and drunkards.
That explains there are so many Nobel prize winners are Amish!!!!
WRT your feelings of inadequacy and failure - you get to determine those feelings. You're allowed to reject someone's expectations of your life. In fact, you must reject other people's expectations at times simply to remain sane and happy. Those who attempt to please everyone, please no one.
That said, you do need to look inward for the reasons of your feelings of fear and inadequacy. Is it because you are lazy and are failing at those things which are important to you? That's a damn good reason for your brain to hate you, and you're going to be miserable as long as you allow that situation to continue.
But that's not the fault of you being smart. That's the fault of you not being complacent, which is ultimately a good thing.
Finally - if you're doing what you want to do, and your life is happy because of it, then why the fuck should you let parents or those you've passed by in life bring you down because of your decisions? Fuck them with a big rubber dick. They don't live with the decisions, you do. If you're unhappy about your decisions, then change those decisions and do something about it. If it's just a concern to please others, then tell them to fuck off and live their own failed lives.
Finally, regarding your friends you have little in common with - that's not a function of stupidity or intelligence or laziness either. That's just the simple fact that not all roads lead to the same place in this grand experiment of the mice. You're not going to be close to the same people forever.
As an anecdote, a very close friend of mine from Jr High and High School died about a year ago. When I attended the funeral, there was a part of me that was crushed with guilt. I'd talked to the guy once in the last 5 years (6 months before he died). I'd failed to attend his wedding or even attempt to keep up.
The brutal, simple truth of all of it was that he and I had walked completely different paths in life and had little in common to keep us together or in touch. And that, sadly, is a part of life. It's not my favorite part, but the bare fact is that people grow in different ways and those things you took for granted as a child (BFF!) sometimes don't apply in the adult world we make for ourselves. Being stupid or smart doesn't change that.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
I read it as a young adult so it's probably a little young for you, but it was an interesting vision of the world for the future.
The essence of it was that the upper caste of society wore these devices that accessed a mega-computer that did most anything for them. Any knowledge needed they would access from the computer, as well as any rudimentary math functions, etc.
One of the side effects was a complete lack of short term memory, for the computer did all of it for the upper caste.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Everyone uses email, so even if you lose 10 points or whatnot, wouldn't that be uniform with everyone except maybe a grandmother scared of computers. Not everyone smokes marijuana. (well maybe at Slashdot...) I don't. If I had to choose between the two - I'd take email. In the choice between video games or tv - video games are interactive, tv is passive. Gotta prefer video games.
This is my biggest complaint against people who claim that one has to have everything they need to know comitted to memory to be useful, when it would be so much MORE useful to spend some of that time and effort into learning how to apply knowledge and FIND information.
I mean, do you honestly think the internet and the huge changes to the way information is store and communicated is a fad? Do you think this process is going to stop or slow down?
Barring armageddon, I shouldnt think so.
So, rather than re-iterate over the parents reasons, I shall leave it that. Most of you know where i'm going with this anyways.
Ice Cream has no bones.
You're saying that overly permissive parenting leads to lowered self-esteem? You lost me, there. If, as a sibling post to this one said, what you mean by permissive parenting is submissive parenting, avoiding confrontations with the kids, it seems like you'd end up with spoiled children, with inflated self-esteem, too damn full of their own egos.
People with low self-esteem aren't a threat or a problem to anyone but themselves. It's people with inflated self-esteem that are the problem.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I'm solafide.I just won $15,000 for my exceptional word knowledge. I am Billy Dorminy, and you can see that he got 2nd at http://www.rd.com/nwpc/news.jhtml. My email didn't make me lose any brainpower.
Billy
I'm sure there are better ways to make vegetable oil. The industry that would fight legalization the hardest is the alcohol industry. They are major funders of anti-drug campaigns.
legalize it! we're no criminals!
"As simple as it gets: Hemp oil could be used to make gasoline."
Get this dude: you can grow hemp without THC. I don't even think hemp is outlawed in the US.
Nobody really knows why marihuana is outlawed in so many jurisdictions. My guess is that somehow it got a bad rep, and that was it.
Two explanations I have seen for the USA that somehow made sense:
1. Marihuana was banned for racist motives, and
2. Marihuana was banned because hemp provided a cheap alternative to wood pulp for producing paper.
(The latter would explain why it was outlawed originally, not why it stays outlawed.)
The survey didn't mention how subjects were selected, what if some of them are also drug users? And I think people are more willing to reveal their email addiction than their drug adddiction.
Studies also show that being a "researcher" at King's college makes you unable to construct a proper control group, or to understand the distinction between correlation and causality.
As simple as it gets: Hemp oil could be used to make gasoline.
Soybean oil could also be used, and an acre of soy produces more than an acre of hemp. Why aren't soybeans illegal? No the real reason pot won't be made illegal is that the war on drugs is too politically valuable.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I've been hearing the same story in one form or another since I was a kid. You might as well say 'football makes you dumb' - it makes about as much sense.
In every generation of parents, there's allways some new technology to demonise. When are people going to realise that a tool is a tool - it's not inherantly evil, harmfull or good either - it's what's done with it that matters? Parents should stop blaming technology for their kid's bad behaviour and poor grades and start looking at what they're doing wrong as parents.
As I kid, I spent hours and hours messing around with computers, watching TV and playing games but I got a degree and a well paid job!
Coding Monkey.org - Spanging the heavy spade of truth into t
I've never liked studies or stats that draw such narrow conclusions. For comparison tests should be added to see how focused someone is at work or school when there is a monkey in the room, or even when they have a cold, or when the heater is turned up too high.
Why do we still look at IQ anyway...
Why are "literacy and numeracy" used as qualifications of intelligence? - or How can you call someone who is week in those areas dumb?
And is being dumb all that bad?
I've only recently started using GUI mail clients, instead of command line ones that you go into, check your mail, then log out... and once you're out you're out. When I run any command in the shell, it checks for mail, so when I'm in the editor working on a program I don't get any mail alerts until I'm back at the command line and that's usually an OK place for a context switch.
I've noticed that the GUI app that's always running is MUCH more intrusive. I've turned off the "new mail" sound but still the count of messages in the icon is a distraction. It annoys me, so I feel like I have to go check it. I want to turn it off, but there's no equivalent of "now you're back in the shell, you have new mail, eh" then.
Any ideas?
I've been using e-mail since '98 and it hasn't had the slightest
Erm
Hey! Look at that dog!
A study of 100,000 pupils in 31 countries around the world has concluded that using computers makes kids dumb.
Studies show that RTFA makes you dumb.
You know, since I've had a computer for years now and I'm graduating with honors and going to a University and getting a degree in Computer Science.
Much like the basketball team, going to a University to get a degree in.. Basketball Science?
If all else fails... RTFM
You know, this sort of kneejerk reaction has always bothered me intensely.
Scientist: Doing X convenient/fun thing causes Y health/mental problem.
Kneejerk: I don't want to change myself, so that's just a stupid lie!
You see this sort of reaction every time someone points out that what you're doing now is bad for you and others. You see it in everything from eating saturated fats to smoking to arsenic in the water to mercury in the air to global warming to too much TV, too much internet, and too much gaming. "Wah, wah! This is fun/cheaper. Why should I have to stop?"
People are willfully blind to the truth whenever it's inconvenient to them.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
from the as-an-evergreen-state-graduate-i'm-unqualified-to- comment dept.
Hey! My dad is an evergreen state graduate... I'm going to tell my daddy you're making fun of him.
Patent: from Latin patere, to be open
Won't somebody please email me a Twinkie, before I do something desparate!!!!
Yow! I'm supposed to have a plan?
What's even worse is the pro-marijuana studies that have to rename themselves to sound like anti-marijuana studies to get funding.
To summarise your post: They confiscated your stuff, and...???...now your in your "mid-thirties" and you are still sulking, not speaking to them, loose my phone number type of stuff. - Did I miss something?
From that little insight into you phyche, I have to infer that you are either a "spoilt brat" that never grew up or maybe you are slightly autistic, (I'm also guessing that you are not a parent). It's very likely your parents loved you and wanted you to experience something they thought you were missing. You may be somewhat "gifted" with a "mathematical" mind and your parents sound like they had little formal education so there is a "culture clash". However they sound like they were doing what they thought would make you into a "better" person.
"Their reasons were often superfluous" - Frustration can make a parent with a Phd. sound like the village idiot. I cannot remeber the number of times I used the following reasoning with my kids: "Because I said so, now shut-up and do it!".
The worst part about your post is that I know people around your age who ran away from extremly violent and/or insestious parent(s) (normally around puberty) and still have the humanity to put thier faith in other peoples good intentions. The attitude displayed in your post is the opposite, it's an example of why parents should not "molly-coddle" thier kids or allow them to become completely insular in thier own (as yet immature) intellectual world.
Disclaimer: I can think of a lot more people who's lives were wrecked by thier parents violence or who simply carried on the family tradition and had thier kids forced in and out of foster holmes.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
That's a flawed analogy.
I don't not think it isn't not unacceptable.
I'm really screwed as I tend to get stoned while reading my email.
Breakthrough Discovery: Fatigue makes people less intelligent!
yeah, maybe they can repeat immediately after you say it... but how many talk like that without prompting? can I say that your just a mindless idiot because you can talk? after all you're just copying whoever else you heard talking. duh!
I see zombies everywhere. Turned stupid by gaining world views from "News for ratings". Masses marginalized by greed, propaganda and PR blitzes ensuring the proper level of fear and want of consumption.
This "study" is a farce and means nearly nothing. Some of the smartest people I know smoke weed like others drink, responsibly. This "study" says nothing of what they aren't paying attention to and that's tragic, because the odds are, it's probably a good thing...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
"IANAP, but..."
Insightful: 76, Off-Topic: 379, Flamebait: 24, Funny: 152, Interesting: 201, Underrated: 55, Troll: 9, Total: 896
In college overusing the Internet probably lowered my intelligence a bit. I don't know what my IQ would have been before, but somehow I lost much of my ability to do arithmetic, while my verbal ability stayed about the same and my spatial skills remained as bad as ever.
The Register article claims that email has worsened social relations. I don't know anyone who rushes off to check their email in the middle of a conversation. Maybe that's because my social circle is so limited that there's no point checking my email frequently.
Make email illegal (then there will be no more spam!)
spam will be the ONLY remaining smtp traffic, since it doesn't care about being legal or not!
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
what's the antidote?
"spank him"
Okay, question number 1: Why are you acting like he's bigger than you? Does he have a key to your gun cabinet or something?
2: Why is this kid not playing outside? Ignore the parent poster, 3 hours a day of ANYTHING for a 5 year old is just wrong. Get him a dog and a stick.
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
It's backwards because psychology often works in weird ways. But yeah, lowered. As Captain Kirk said, we need challenges to strengthen us or we weaken and die. This means being told no. If somebody gets whatever they want the second they demand it, yeah, they end up spoiled but their self esteem is only inflated on the outside; inside they're afraid people won't like them. The bluster just is a coverup.
And as far as low self-esteem people not being a threat to anyone, that's ludicrous. Gangbangers that KNOW they're nothing but a piece of shit won't take flack from anybody because they know they suck but must bluster to make up for it, and kill people to prove they were right. Another example: Jeffrey Dahmer. Gay guy, driven nuts by his fundy parents' attitude about homosexuality. Do you think he had inflated self-esteem or low?
O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
Say what you will, but I have been an occasional user. Do you know why it's never been a regular habit? Because I know people that have been regular users. I have seen how they're effected long-term. I don't need a study to tell me that habitual marijuana use leads to impaired intellect.
± 29 dB
After reading your message I'm convinced. Your careful analysis of your associates should be enough to convince anyone. --- Oh, wait a second. I know a lot of people that smoke pot regularly, and many of them are far more intelligent then the norm. Many of them live relatively normal lives, work challenging engineering jobs, read, philosophize, etc. They seem more capable than the norm. How does this factor in?
Also, what about all the many very intelligent people that smoked marijuana regularly. What about the genius scientists, writers, musicians, and artists. If what you are saying is right they could have had a notable amount of more potential if only they didn't smoke marijuana?
Or maybe there could be something else going on? Maybe intelligence can't be represented by a single number. Maybe it can only be measured in relation to certain things in specific areas. Maybe while drugs have an effect on the user that may (at least for the duration of it's influence) cause the user to score lower in one section other benefits may occur that cause other sections to go higher. Maybe the release of tension through the relaxation felt by users of marijuana also plays a role and helps people out. Maybe people's increased ability to visualize (through any sensation, not just vision) plays a role.
There is a lot going on there. If you insist on over simplifying and drawing conclusions you'll very likely be drawing uninformed conclusions.
Yeah! You fight the man! 4:20 on 4/20 forever!
Do you know why it's never been a regular habit?
Cuz everyone thinks you're a narc and won't share with you?
Cuz you always bogart the joint/pipe/bong?
Cuz you drool all over the joint and can't keep it lit?
Because I know people that have been regular users.
And you're pissed that when they're holding they won't share with you.
I have seen how they're effected long-term.
Yeah, it starts by removing their ability to distinguish between "effect" and "affect".
I don't need a study to tell me that habitual marijuana use leads to impaired intellect.
And judging from your post I don't need a study to determine that you're a tard, even without marijuana consumption.
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
Traditonal IQ test measure paper-pushing problems. Kids now grow up in a much more interactive, media-rich environment than their parents. I bet they'd womp their parents on a test of had-eye coordination.
I know the US is low in quality of schooling, lower than the UK and most of Europe. I wonder if this could be factored in and result in different results for different countries?
For example, I'm told that when French students graduate their equivalent of high school at 18, they have the American equivalent education of an AA degree that they call a baccalauréat.
Perhaps in the U.S. due to the already IQ-lowering effects of long hours spent in front of the TV, the computer is a "step-up", but for European schools, long hours in front of the TV have not been the "norm", so adding computers there might be detracting from study & homework hours.
One of the latter stories on computers helping scholastic performance listed in the first paragraph talked, in particular about how it helped children in low-income families -- again, possibly pulling children into the computer rather than time spent in front of TV or doing other non-scholastic activities.
The center of this study focused on "problem solving" and ability to focus, though, as measures of Intellectual Function. Email and computer multi-tasking might indeed hurt this type of function.
It really might depend on what "activity" the computer-spent time is replacing, and how good of schooling the children in the area would have been getting before computers were available.
In a society or school where children spend It could be the computer, like many technologies before it, has an equalizing effect: having weakening effects on those who were stronger before their arrival but having help affects on those who were weaker before arrival.
I suppose the ability to randomly check email in the middle of a class might not be the greatest thing...but certainly, having a computer for use to store "facts" might improve "Intelligence" in those schools that required "rote" memorization of facts. I know I feel a bit cut off from part of my "brain", when I am disconnected -- can't just google up an answer or bring up a dictionary or calculator or measurement converter. It's a slow down to manually look things up, most certainly.
However, facts != intelligence. So schools that focused on problem solving and thinking for one's self, might suffer with the introduction of something (i.e. a computer) that provides easy answers.
L
'nuf said.
so you know some weak individuals that would easily be affected by something else if not for marijuana. they would be drinkers/etc.
maybe it is them, not the weed