If you factor in the long-term effects of continued fossil fuel use on health and the environment in general then it's already far less expensive to use renewables.
All completely true, agree 100%. Hear, hear.
There are many people on/. who want to suddenly find themselves living in the economy of Star Trek's 24th Century Earth, but without the technological infrastructure that makes it possible: Ubiquitos nuclear fusion and antimatter reactor-based power (to the point cost-wise of being literally free to all), and matter-energy conversion technology, making matter replicators (which can create literally all the basics of existence for you instantly, for free, directly from energy, no other raw materials required). If we had these technologies, then the only people who would have to work would be the people who wanted to work, money would be obsolete, and the possibility of a Utopia where everyone can pursue whatever they wish to could become a reality. But we do not have these technologies, that society/civilization does not exist, energy sources and the basics for living are far from free, and so-called 'Universal Basic Income' simply does not scale up to a population the size of any first-world country.
Furthermore: it is my opinion that many of the proponents of UBI are disingenuous, and do wish to be living in a world where they get handed money, and will do nothing other than sit on their behinds, being fat, lazy, and contributing nothing to anyone other than themselves, with not a care in the world for the fact that they're just parasites.
The discussion of Universal Basic Income should be shelved until if and when we live in a world where we have the aforementioned technologies or equivalent to support it, and not a moment sooner.
Republicans know they're an Endangered Species at this point, why do you think so many of them are 'retiring', not seeking re-election? They know they're junglefucked, courtesy of Trump & Company. In 2020 the socio-political needle will swing back left towards center again, as the sheer mass of the disaffected, disposessed, and generally pissed-off get out of their chairs, and the gravitational force of that mass will pull things out of the tailspin they're in. Balance is the Way of the Universe, and so it is with humans; we're out of balance right now.
Eventually they'll be forced to change their business models and they damned well know it, this bullshit is just them going kicking-and-screaming the whole way.
Oh and by the way if you're one of those cowardly types who go around saying "there's nothing we can do so we should just do as we're told" then you and I have nothing more to say to each other.
It doesn't become "unimagineable", it just becomes more bloody and violent. There will always be revolutionaries, and they'll always find a way. China is a big country, and out in the wilds where there's no cameras or microphones and everybody knows everybody, whole armies can be quietly formed, checking the loyalty of their own people, and dealing with any spies that are detected. Look at various groups in the middle east; how do you imagine they got started? The old saying about how the tighter you grip sand in your fist, the more grains slip through your fingers has been and always be very true.
Antennas can be cut and terminated with a 50-ohm dummy load, effectively disabling them, and I'm sure just like a cellphone if you have no SIM card or refuse to set up an account for them, they're effectively disabled anyway. Considering that I have an older phone that they made a SIM card for that doesn't connect to any netowrk (but allows the phone to boot up) I'm sure the cellular connetion in a vehicle could be handled the same way: vehicle systems function but no wireless connectivity to anything. Or just cut and terminate the antenna(s) as per above. Or just never own a vehicle that has any of that crap in it in the first place (my go-to option).
SOME humans are awful at piloting cars, especially when tired/hungry/distracted
The problem is not humans. The problem is driver education, driver training, and the testing/retesting of drivers. We used to have driver education and training in highschool; we don't anymore, you have to pay a driving school to do that. DMV written tests have gotten more extensive, but they don't go far enough. DMV drive testing needs to be more rigorous and required more often because people develop bad habits over time; remedial education should be required every so often. There was driver education and training still when I was in highschool, and my own father for all his faults was a tough instructor for a non-instructor himself, and I've taken great pride in being a good competent driver, but I suspect that these driving schools you pay for now are more focused on you passing tests than they are you being a good competent driver and if so that needs to change. The things you complain about above are not the result of "humans not being capable of driving cars safely", which very much unfairly lumps all 7 billion of us into one category, but are the result of that which I speak of: poor driver education, producing drivers who do not exercise an apporpriate level of good judgement before they get behind the wheel. Some of our technology is also to blame (smartphones, too many built-in gadgets in vehicles like 'entertainment centers' and crap like that) and that needs to change, too (I drive a Toyota Tacoma that has none of that inside it, just a radio, and a 5-speed stick, and my basic cellphone is turned completely OFF when I'm driving). All in all, I feel like SDCs are the response to a very large, wide-ranging Strawman argument made against our entire species.
Congratulations, you sound just like a typical, average American: only thinking about safety, security, and convenience, and not a single thought for privacy and your rights as a citizen and human being. Do yourself a favor, and think for a few minutes on the downside of vehicles you have no control over, and by the way note that police, the government, and hackers taking control of them while you're in them will be easy, and you'll have no way to stop them, and that the so-called "AI" they're using in these really isn't up to the task either.
The only problem with what you're suggesting is that the affected big telecom (i.e. Comcast, AT&T, etc) could and likely would price-gouge the living hell out of the competing NN-respecting ISP, who would have no choice but to pass that cost on to the customer. If the FCC is going to gut NN in the first place (because Pai is a shill for them and might be being paid under the table to do so) what makes you think they'll bat an eye at the big ISPs reaming a small ISP for pass-through? Maybe they can sue or maybe the FTC can get invovled in that, but in the current socio-political climate in this country, do you really think that'd happen or that they'd get any real traction if they tried? Things are horribly skewed at the moment and until there's enough political mass used to start swinging the needle back left towards center things are going to be tough.
If I'm not mistaken, as a Nuclear Option, states should always have the ability to kick companies like Comcast and AT&T out completely. Sounds utterly outrageous but I think legally speaking it would be possible.
In any event, under the current administration, there has to be ways to leverage things, no matter how fucked-up they are (and they really are); Trump made a big deal about "giving power back to the States" as part of "MAGA", so guess what? Allowing the FCC to dictate to the States on this issue flies right in the face of that. So maybe State governors and legislators call out Trump on that and demand "Which is it? Do we have the power, or does the Federal government still dictate things to us that happen in our own borders?" Congress is in the process of (or have they voted already? Haven't checked) making all of Congress declare which side of the Net Neutrality fence they're on; I think that's Step #1 in the process of forcing Trump to Put Up Or Shut Up.
I second the motion.:-)
He's nothing but a shill for the telecoms and ISPs. So far as I'm concerned, once Robert Mueller is done with slicing-and-dicing Trump and his people, he should move on to some of the appointees like Pai. Bet you cash money he's getting paid large sums under the table by the big corps like Comcast/Xfinity and AT&T to fuck over the American people and prop up their outdated, greedy business models.
In all that time, how many revolutions have there been in China? Not much of a student of history but I know it's happened more than once.
What I'm wondering is this: When you have over a billion people in your country, and you treat them the way that the Communist Chinise government treats them, how much more of this bullshit will they stand for before there's another revolution? Or, at least, before the Communist government sees that the only way for them to stay in power and prevent a long, drawn-out, bloody revolution, is to change their ways, respect their citizens more?
I see that, and you see that, and we both get lumped in with the tinfoil-hat crowd, told we're dangerously paranoid, told "that'll never happen" by the shills and the deniers, told "SDCs will save lives" (i.e. trading security and 'safety' for freedom, yet again), told "humans aren't capable of driving a car so we need machines to do it for us" (which is a flat-out lie), and so on. Meanwhile the technology is half-baked at best, the security of the software running them will be half-assed and full of holes, and as you allude to, SDCs will not only be capble of being tracked in realtime via an always-on radio link, but will be capable of being taken control of remotely at any time, with no manual override possible by the occupant. This will be even more true for Level 5 SDCs, which won't have any controls for a human driver (and fuck that, I *would* rather walk than step into one of those four-wheeled nightmare machines) so you'll literally have ZERO control over the machine, it'll do whatever it wants to do (or whatever who is actually in control wants it to do) and you'll have ZERO say over any of it. Needless to say (at least for anyone who can actually think these things through) any decent hacker will be able to hack these vehicles and take control just as if they were the police or the government; do I really need to ennumerate all the things criminal hackers could do to you with this ability?
Know what really disturbs me the most? How some people envision being able to put their kids in some Level 5 SDC (no controls at all) by themselves and send them off to Grandma's house or wherever. *SHUDDER* So far as I'm concerned you may as well just put a gun to their little heads and pull the trigger, it'd be a faster and less painful way to go.
I'd rather walk. Or perhaps I'll go back to riding a motorcycle full-time, like I used to when I was in my 20's. No way in hell I'll ever have a SDC or even ride in one. Me driving or human driver or nothing, thanks anyway.
People are not overly bright in many ways. They don't understand that it was a so-called 'self driving car', because they see a human being behind the wheel, assume he's the delivery driver, and that the touchscreen business is just some new time-saving gadget -- and in fact I'd think they'd also be somewhat annoyed that they had to come out to the vehicle to get their pizza, instead of the driver bringing it to the door. If they noticed the follow vehicle, they maybe think that's the guys boss and it's some sort of 'training' thing. I'd bet cash money that if there were no human being inside that vehicle and no follow vehicle, people would be confused, maybe not even get their pizza, and perhaps more than a bit freaked out, on the phone to the pizza place frantically asking all sorts of questions and maybe even complaining about it.
"1337 kids" don't call themselves "leet" anymore, and last time I checked, IPv4 is still IPv4, and localhost is still localhost.:-) ping -a 127.0.0.1
Pinging localhost [127.0.0.1] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time
Ping statistics for 127.0.0.1:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
That'd be funny if anything I own other than this computer were internet-connected. You're welcome to come try to crash it if you want, I'll even give you the IP address: 127.0.0.1
Or, maybe, you've been so thoroughly indoctrinated that "sharing everything is normal" and that "the government and corporations are on YOUR SIDE and want to protect you and for you to be happy!", or maybe you're just dumb enough to not understand how easily all these things can be leveraged to become surveillance devices even if they aren't already. Enjoy your rose-colored glasses, I guess.
I'm sure it'll be like a gold-rush for the wireless companies, all that data they get to charge people for. I'm also sure someone is going to just love all that audio and video they'll have access to, when the gods-be-damned thing is on all the time in your home recording everything you do and say.
I told you people, YEARS ago, that this shit was going to happen, but did anyone listen? Hell, no. I get lumped together with the tinfoil-hat paranoids, told "it'll never happen", but yet here we are: you're all getting always-on, always-connected A/V surveillance devices pushed on you; you can't be one of the cool kids unless you fill your home with this shit. Why are people falling for this?
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If you factor in the long-term effects of continued fossil fuel use on health and the environment in general then it's already far less expensive to use renewables.
All completely true, agree 100%. Hear, hear. /. who want to suddenly find themselves living in the economy of Star Trek's 24th Century Earth, but without the technological infrastructure that makes it possible: Ubiquitos nuclear fusion and antimatter reactor-based power (to the point cost-wise of being literally free to all), and matter-energy conversion technology, making matter replicators (which can create literally all the basics of existence for you instantly, for free, directly from energy, no other raw materials required). If we had these technologies, then the only people who would have to work would be the people who wanted to work, money would be obsolete, and the possibility of a Utopia where everyone can pursue whatever they wish to could become a reality. But we do not have these technologies, that society/civilization does not exist, energy sources and the basics for living are far from free, and so-called 'Universal Basic Income' simply does not scale up to a population the size of any first-world country.
There are many people on
Furthermore: it is my opinion that many of the proponents of UBI are disingenuous, and do wish to be living in a world where they get handed money, and will do nothing other than sit on their behinds, being fat, lazy, and contributing nothing to anyone other than themselves, with not a care in the world for the fact that they're just parasites.
The discussion of Universal Basic Income should be shelved until if and when we live in a world where we have the aforementioned technologies or equivalent to support it, and not a moment sooner.
Republicans know they're an Endangered Species at this point, why do you think so many of them are 'retiring', not seeking re-election? They know they're junglefucked, courtesy of Trump & Company. In 2020 the socio-political needle will swing back left towards center again, as the sheer mass of the disaffected, disposessed, and generally pissed-off get out of their chairs, and the gravitational force of that mass will pull things out of the tailspin they're in. Balance is the Way of the Universe, and so it is with humans; we're out of balance right now.
Eventually they'll be forced to change their business models and they damned well know it, this bullshit is just them going kicking-and-screaming the whole way.
Old, tired-out arguments don't interest me. Not the same thing, not relevant.
Still won't have one, even if that turns out to be true. Also speculation, bullshit, and spreading FUD. Go troll elsewhere, you're boring me.
Oh and by the way if you're one of those cowardly types who go around saying "there's nothing we can do so we should just do as we're told" then you and I have nothing more to say to each other.
It doesn't become "unimagineable", it just becomes more bloody and violent. There will always be revolutionaries, and they'll always find a way. China is a big country, and out in the wilds where there's no cameras or microphones and everybody knows everybody, whole armies can be quietly formed, checking the loyalty of their own people, and dealing with any spies that are detected. Look at various groups in the middle east; how do you imagine they got started? The old saying about how the tighter you grip sand in your fist, the more grains slip through your fingers has been and always be very true.
Antennas can be cut and terminated with a 50-ohm dummy load, effectively disabling them, and I'm sure just like a cellphone if you have no SIM card or refuse to set up an account for them, they're effectively disabled anyway. Considering that I have an older phone that they made a SIM card for that doesn't connect to any netowrk (but allows the phone to boot up) I'm sure the cellular connetion in a vehicle could be handled the same way: vehicle systems function but no wireless connectivity to anything. Or just cut and terminate the antenna(s) as per above. Or just never own a vehicle that has any of that crap in it in the first place (my go-to option).
SOME humans are awful at piloting cars, especially when tired/hungry/distracted
The problem is not humans. The problem is driver education, driver training, and the testing/retesting of drivers. We used to have driver education and training in highschool; we don't anymore, you have to pay a driving school to do that. DMV written tests have gotten more extensive, but they don't go far enough. DMV drive testing needs to be more rigorous and required more often because people develop bad habits over time; remedial education should be required every so often. There was driver education and training still when I was in highschool, and my own father for all his faults was a tough instructor for a non-instructor himself, and I've taken great pride in being a good competent driver, but I suspect that these driving schools you pay for now are more focused on you passing tests than they are you being a good competent driver and if so that needs to change. The things you complain about above are not the result of "humans not being capable of driving cars safely", which very much unfairly lumps all 7 billion of us into one category, but are the result of that which I speak of: poor driver education, producing drivers who do not exercise an apporpriate level of good judgement before they get behind the wheel. Some of our technology is also to blame (smartphones, too many built-in gadgets in vehicles like 'entertainment centers' and crap like that) and that needs to change, too (I drive a Toyota Tacoma that has none of that inside it, just a radio, and a 5-speed stick, and my basic cellphone is turned completely OFF when I'm driving). All in all, I feel like SDCs are the response to a very large, wide-ranging Strawman argument made against our entire species.
Congratulations, you sound just like a typical, average American: only thinking about safety, security, and convenience, and not a single thought for privacy and your rights as a citizen and human being. Do yourself a favor, and think for a few minutes on the downside of vehicles you have no control over, and by the way note that police, the government, and hackers taking control of them while you're in them will be easy, and you'll have no way to stop them, and that the so-called "AI" they're using in these really isn't up to the task either.
The only problem with what you're suggesting is that the affected big telecom (i.e. Comcast, AT&T, etc) could and likely would price-gouge the living hell out of the competing NN-respecting ISP, who would have no choice but to pass that cost on to the customer. If the FCC is going to gut NN in the first place (because Pai is a shill for them and might be being paid under the table to do so) what makes you think they'll bat an eye at the big ISPs reaming a small ISP for pass-through? Maybe they can sue or maybe the FTC can get invovled in that, but in the current socio-political climate in this country, do you really think that'd happen or that they'd get any real traction if they tried? Things are horribly skewed at the moment and until there's enough political mass used to start swinging the needle back left towards center things are going to be tough.
If I'm not mistaken, as a Nuclear Option, states should always have the ability to kick companies like Comcast and AT&T out completely. Sounds utterly outrageous but I think legally speaking it would be possible.
In any event, under the current administration, there has to be ways to leverage things, no matter how fucked-up they are (and they really are); Trump made a big deal about "giving power back to the States" as part of "MAGA", so guess what? Allowing the FCC to dictate to the States on this issue flies right in the face of that. So maybe State governors and legislators call out Trump on that and demand "Which is it? Do we have the power, or does the Federal government still dictate things to us that happen in our own borders?" Congress is in the process of (or have they voted already? Haven't checked) making all of Congress declare which side of the Net Neutrality fence they're on; I think that's Step #1 in the process of forcing Trump to Put Up Or Shut Up.
I second the motion. :-)
He's nothing but a shill for the telecoms and ISPs. So far as I'm concerned, once Robert Mueller is done with slicing-and-dicing Trump and his people, he should move on to some of the appointees like Pai. Bet you cash money he's getting paid large sums under the table by the big corps like Comcast/Xfinity and AT&T to fuck over the American people and prop up their outdated, greedy business models.
In all that time, how many revolutions have there been in China? Not much of a student of history but I know it's happened more than once.
What I'm wondering is this: When you have over a billion people in your country, and you treat them the way that the Communist Chinise government treats them, how much more of this bullshit will they stand for before there's another revolution? Or, at least, before the Communist government sees that the only way for them to stay in power and prevent a long, drawn-out, bloody revolution, is to change their ways, respect their citizens more?
I see that, and you see that, and we both get lumped in with the tinfoil-hat crowd, told we're dangerously paranoid, told "that'll never happen" by the shills and the deniers, told "SDCs will save lives" (i.e. trading security and 'safety' for freedom, yet again), told "humans aren't capable of driving a car so we need machines to do it for us" (which is a flat-out lie), and so on. Meanwhile the technology is half-baked at best, the security of the software running them will be half-assed and full of holes, and as you allude to, SDCs will not only be capble of being tracked in realtime via an always-on radio link, but will be capable of being taken control of remotely at any time, with no manual override possible by the occupant. This will be even more true for Level 5 SDCs, which won't have any controls for a human driver (and fuck that, I *would* rather walk than step into one of those four-wheeled nightmare machines) so you'll literally have ZERO control over the machine, it'll do whatever it wants to do (or whatever who is actually in control wants it to do) and you'll have ZERO say over any of it. Needless to say (at least for anyone who can actually think these things through) any decent hacker will be able to hack these vehicles and take control just as if they were the police or the government; do I really need to ennumerate all the things criminal hackers could do to you with this ability?
Know what really disturbs me the most? How some people envision being able to put their kids in some Level 5 SDC (no controls at all) by themselves and send them off to Grandma's house or wherever. *SHUDDER* So far as I'm concerned you may as well just put a gun to their little heads and pull the trigger, it'd be a faster and less painful way to go.
I'd rather walk. Or perhaps I'll go back to riding a motorcycle full-time, like I used to when I was in my 20's. No way in hell I'll ever have a SDC or even ride in one. Me driving or human driver or nothing, thanks anyway.
If this is all there was, I'd ride a bike, ride a motorcycle full-time again, or WALK.
People are not overly bright in many ways. They don't understand that it was a so-called 'self driving car', because they see a human being behind the wheel, assume he's the delivery driver, and that the touchscreen business is just some new time-saving gadget -- and in fact I'd think they'd also be somewhat annoyed that they had to come out to the vehicle to get their pizza, instead of the driver bringing it to the door. If they noticed the follow vehicle, they maybe think that's the guys boss and it's some sort of 'training' thing. I'd bet cash money that if there were no human being inside that vehicle and no follow vehicle, people would be confused, maybe not even get their pizza, and perhaps more than a bit freaked out, on the phone to the pizza place frantically asking all sorts of questions and maybe even complaining about it.
*shrug* we're not using IPv6 yet and at the rate the world is fucking with the Internet, there won't be an Internet to need IPv6.
"1337 kids" don't call themselves "leet" anymore, and last time I checked, IPv4 is still IPv4, and localhost is still localhost. :-)
ping -a 127.0.0.1
Pinging localhost [127.0.0.1] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time
Ping statistics for 127.0.0.1:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms
Am I sure what is not what???
Yeah just imagine what your wireless bill would look like if it booted over TFTP and had no local storage to speak of. That'll be the next thing.
That'd be funny if anything I own other than this computer were internet-connected. You're welcome to come try to crash it if you want, I'll even give you the IP address: 127.0.0.1
Or, maybe, you've been so thoroughly indoctrinated that "sharing everything is normal" and that "the government and corporations are on YOUR SIDE and want to protect you and for you to be happy!", or maybe you're just dumb enough to not understand how easily all these things can be leveraged to become surveillance devices even if they aren't already. Enjoy your rose-colored glasses, I guess.
I'm sure it'll be like a gold-rush for the wireless companies, all that data they get to charge people for. I'm also sure someone is going to just love all that audio and video they'll have access to, when the gods-be-damned thing is on all the time in your home recording everything you do and say.
I told you people, YEARS ago, that this shit was going to happen, but did anyone listen? Hell, no. I get lumped together with the tinfoil-hat paranoids, told "it'll never happen", but yet here we are: you're all getting always-on, always-connected A/V surveillance devices pushed on you; you can't be one of the cool kids unless you fill your home with this shit. Why are people falling for this?