This is why we have the internet: Networked, remote controllable/accessable research.
Except that isn't the reality, is it? The vast majority of computers attached to the internet actually have a person sitting at them. Those that don't (servers etc) still are within easy access of people - I doubt anyone who maintains a web server would like it stuck at the bottom of the ocean and unaccessible when the hard disc drive decides to start playing up.
This is exactly the point I am trying to make - think practical! Is data from the ocean in real time actually much more useful that non-realtime data? i.e. if I have a data-collection experiment attached to a buoy and leave it there for three months then collect it, is that data actually much less useful that data collected in real time? I doubt it. And yet look at the cost implications of collecting the real time data.
Will it be expensive? Yes. However, the amount of data that will be received with minimal impact to the environment will be staggering.
Two random things that come to mind - the NASA "space pen" and the Russians pencil (yes I know about Snopes blah blah) and - "never underestimate the bandwidth of a pick-up truck travelling cross-country with a trunk full of magnetic tapes". Applies to a boat too.
Although I love technology, I always prefer to take a sceptical view when considering it's application. I often ask my clients, "if you didn't have a computer/network/whatever, how would you do this?" I find computer technology often blurs people's clarity of thinking, and if you say "how would you do this without a computer?" they see more clearly exactly what the issues are.
It may be that this is a very sensible project. However, it may also be that the cost of setting up this network might be better deployed focusing on the actual experiments themselves. My own view is that when it comes to the biological sciences, there's nothing quite like physically being there, so I'd prefer to see money spent on making dive trips easier/safer/less expensive.
Having said all of that, often this type of big project actually has multiple objectives. I can see lots of military uses for a big undersea network.
But should they be allowed to put these conditions onto a product you have purchased?
Before you say "they can putever they damn well please", no they can't. You couldn't sell a product - for instance - with a label saying "this product may break without warning after only a few days. But that's not our responsibility." It is their responsibility, whether they like it or not, and you as a consumer have certain legal rights.
Our company maintains web sites for a number of clients. We frequently get clients forwarding us spam that they have received, saying things like "your web site is not optimized for search engines", "why aren't you in this great directory...?", "your web site would recieve a lot more visitors if...", asking us what we should do about it.
It can be a bit annoying, because of course clients don't understand these things are just spam sent out in their thousands, and think they are from real people criticising their web sites. Of course the standard Slashdot response is to laugh at such people for being dumb, but often this type of spam is created in a deliberately deceptive way to make it look as if it is from a real person.
I just love the sense of geography you have in the USA!
It's like every time a discussion of how behind the USA is with broadband or mobile phone technology, a load of you pipe up with "but the USA is so big! That's why we're behind!"
Get yourself a globe (not a flat map - they distort the sizes of countries.) Cut out a shape approximately the same size as the USA, then position it over other places in the world. You will find that the USA isn't as big as you thought it was.
In one of South Korea's latest efforts to establish itself as a technology trendsetter,
What a biased way to introduce the subject! South Korea is a technology trendsetter in terms of mobile phone technology, as are several other countries including Estonia, Norway and Japan. The USA isn't. Get over it.
Consider that for most musicians the motivation to make music is to make money.
Is it? I doubt it. I know quite a few musicians, and I can't think of a single one that does it "for the money". Most off them would almost certainly be better off financially doing something else.
However, I expect many people in "the music industry", i.e. record company executives, do do it just "for the money". Which is sad.
Just because 50 million people decide that what they're doing is right and justifiable doesn't mean that they're right and justified.
That is a remarkable statement. Has a certain ring to it. I think I'm going to print it out and pin it to my wall.
What do you think makes something "right and justified"? Even if you're religious, it doesn't mean you don't have to make these decisions for yourself. As far as I am aware Jesus never said anything about the morality of downloading Madonna's greatest hits off the 'net.
The Washingtion Times is reporting that the Chinese are using this launch to spy on the USA.
So? It is the responsibility of the military of every country to be prepared in case of war. That means gathering information. The USA does it all the time. Gathering information is not a war-like act, nor does it mean that they are "preparing for war". It would be irresponsible of the Chinese military not to be doing this. They are there primarily to defend China.
I hate this hypocrisy that says that if we do it then it's ok, but if other countries do it, then it isn't.
As many have noted, Sun have never formed a coherent strategy about linux.
Not just Linux. Java too, and that's their own fricking invention. The where handed an ungodly amount of positive publicity/hype when Java came out, and then they just seemed to p*ss it away.
And StarOffice? Now, I love OpenOffice and all that, but let's not let that blind ourselves to the fact that Sun's strategy with regards to making a profit off it with StarOffice isn't actually very good.
China becoming an economic superpower would be a good thing, both for its citizens and potentially for the rest of the world (they'll have more money to buy our stuff).
Your assumption is that China will "do bad things" if it becomes a superpower, but I don't think that is a given. The neo-Cons in the current US administration don't want any country to threaten the USAs current economic pole position, and are willing to do whatever it takes to keep the USA there. I think that view is narrow minded, and could be damaging for everyone in the long term. Fortunately it looks like the neo-Cons are finding that their gung-ho attitiude to world affairs don't actually get the results they expect.
You're right! All major technologies since America was founded originated in America by Americans, and were not based in any way on any work done outside of America, or by non-Americans.
Now I cannot think of a single thing that someone outside of America has invented. Oh wait! Didn't the French invent waffles?
Thank you for pointing out my misunderstandings. I now understand that:
a) Actually, America invented the web. b) The European space agency wouldn't have achieved anything if it weren't for America. c) Americans invented the car, rockets, flight, the internet, and atomic energy (and those Americans would take it as an insult to be called Europeans). d) Europe has a bad attitude to immigration. e) Einstein was American. f) The German work that the Americans used to land on the moon was actually American.
I can see that the observation in my original post - that Americans tend to believe everything was invented in America by Americans - is wrong. Or rather, it was stupid of me to try to claim that anyone other than Americans have ever invented anything significant. I stand corrected. Sorry for my ignorance.
I think the responses I am getting to my post just demonstrate the point I am trying to make.
Einstein moved to America when he was 52. He had done nearly all his most important work by that time.
You say that this is because Americans have a different attitude to imigration. However, when Americans move abroad you don't seem to consider them no longer American.
I understand Madonna now lives in London. Should I now start referring to her as British? Are all her achievements now British ones? Is Gore Vidal Italian? He's been living there for years. Are his books now Italian ones?
Your response shows factual errors that just highlight what I am saying.
For instance, Einstein did nearly all his significant work and published most of his important papers whilst he was in Europe. He only fled to the US in around 1931, after he had published nearly all of his most significant work. And yet you seem to believe that Einstein and others like him "only achieved greatness because they fled to a land where they were allowed to develop their ideas." That's just rubbish, and your misunderstanding of Einsteins history just proves the point I am trying to make!
People working in half a dozen different languages (natural languages, that is, not programming languages!),
Welcome to reality. Reality for most of the rest of the world, that is.
In Europe we speak lots of languages. That's the reality of the situation. Of course this isn't as efficient as just speaking one language, but it is the reality. I know, as an American you're probably thinking "well why don't you all just speak English?"
I had a funny situation on the outskirts of San Francisco once. I asked a guy sweeping up outside a MacDonalds some directions. I replied in very stilted English that he couldn't understand me because he didn't speak English. I noticed his accent so I asked him my question in Spanish. The look of suprise and joy on his face was comical. He told me that most Americans can't speak another language and expect you to learn English, but not speaking another language themselves don't realise that learning another language isn't easy. And they treat you like crap and think you're stupid if you can't speak English. I don't know if what he said is true or not, but unfortunately I don't find it hard to believe.
I think one thing that distinguishes the USA from Europe (and in fact many other countries) is that, in the USA, you're really good at hyping stuff.
Over here in Europe we're crap at it, or rather, it's not seen as being so important - which I believe is a mistake.
I was once knew a marketing person at CERN who said that as they had invented the web, they were thinking of putting up some good web pages about it to let the world know what they had achieved. Later I found out that she had been told that it had been decided that it wasn't a priority and so no budget was allocated to it. So outside of techy fields most people in the world don't know that the web was invented in Europe. (Yes, I know the Internet network was an American invention).
This is true of many other achievements in Europe. For instance, everyone in the world knows lots about NASA and yet very little about the achievements of the European Space Agency, which has also done some really impressive things.
The USA also has a good way of claiming innovations as its own, by "Americanising" everything. So, for instance, most people - Americans and non-Americans - think that most technological innovation during the last century has been American, whereas in actual fact much of it was just "absorbed" by America. Example - landing on the moon is seen as a purely American achievement but was actually significantly based on German work. Another example - Einstein was of course European but many people believe he was American.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not really criticising the USA, I'm actually criticising Europe for not promoting its achievements or those of its citizens. And of course one of the great things about the USA is that it has the money and drive to make things happen, which is why many projects initiated in other places end up taking off in the USA. But it is frustrating to meet Americans that believe that everything is invented in America.
Slashdot Mirror
This is why we have the internet: Networked, remote controllable/accessable research.
Except that isn't the reality, is it? The vast majority of computers attached to the internet actually have a person sitting at them. Those that don't (servers etc) still are within easy access of people - I doubt anyone who maintains a web server would like it stuck at the bottom of the ocean and unaccessible when the hard disc drive decides to start playing up.
This is exactly the point I am trying to make - think practical! Is data from the ocean in real time actually much more useful that non-realtime data? i.e. if I have a data-collection experiment attached to a buoy and leave it there for three months then collect it, is that data actually much less useful that data collected in real time? I doubt it. And yet look at the cost implications of collecting the real time data.
Will it be expensive? Yes.
However, the amount of data that will be received with minimal impact to the environment will be staggering.
Two random things that come to mind - the NASA "space pen" and the Russians pencil (yes I know about Snopes blah blah) and - "never underestimate the bandwidth of a pick-up truck travelling cross-country with a trunk full of magnetic tapes". Applies to a boat too.
This looks like an awfully expensive project.
Although I love technology, I always prefer to take a sceptical view when considering it's application. I often ask my clients, "if you didn't have a computer/network/whatever, how would you do this?" I find computer technology often blurs people's clarity of thinking, and if you say "how would you do this without a computer?" they see more clearly exactly what the issues are.
It may be that this is a very sensible project. However, it may also be that the cost of setting up this network might be better deployed focusing on the actual experiments themselves. My own view is that when it comes to the biological sciences, there's nothing quite like physically being there, so I'd prefer to see money spent on making dive trips easier/safer/less expensive.
Having said all of that, often this type of big project actually has multiple objectives. I can see lots of military uses for a big undersea network.
Don't buy it if you don't like the conditions.
But should they be allowed to put these conditions onto a product you have purchased?
Before you say "they can putever they damn well please", no they can't. You couldn't sell a product - for instance - with a label saying "this product may break without warning after only a few days. But that's not our responsibility." It is their responsibility, whether they like it or not, and you as a consumer have certain legal rights.
Our company maintains web sites for a number of clients. We frequently get clients forwarding us spam that they have received, saying things like "your web site is not optimized for search engines", "why aren't you in this great directory...?", "your web site would recieve a lot more visitors if...", asking us what we should do about it.
It can be a bit annoying, because of course clients don't understand these things are just spam sent out in their thousands, and think they are from real people criticising their web sites. Of course the standard Slashdot response is to laugh at such people for being dumb, but often this type of spam is created in a deliberately deceptive way to make it look as if it is from a real person.
australia is at a guess a third the size of here.
I just love the sense of geography you have in the USA!
It's like every time a discussion of how behind the USA is with broadband or mobile phone technology, a load of you pipe up with "but the USA is so big! That's why we're behind!"
Get yourself a globe (not a flat map - they distort the sizes of countries.) Cut out a shape approximately the same size as the USA, then position it over other places in the world. You will find that the USA isn't as big as you thought it was.
Is this another example of South Korea's latest efforts to establish itself as a technology trendsetter? (LG Electronics is a Korean company).
Or is it in fact an example of how South Korea is a technology trendsetter?
Oh sorry I forgot! The USA is the technology trendsetter, the rest of the world is just trying to catch up.
In one of South Korea's latest efforts to establish itself as a technology trendsetter,
What a biased way to introduce the subject! South Korea is a technology trendsetter in terms of mobile phone technology, as are several other countries including Estonia, Norway and Japan. The USA isn't. Get over it.
Consider that for most musicians the motivation to make music is to make money.
Is it? I doubt it. I know quite a few musicians, and I can't think of a single one that does it "for the money". Most off them would almost certainly be better off financially doing something else.
However, I expect many people in "the music industry", i.e. record company executives, do do it just "for the money". Which is sad.
Just because 50 million people decide that what they're doing is right and justifiable doesn't mean that they're right and justified.
That is a remarkable statement. Has a certain ring to it. I think I'm going to print it out and pin it to my wall.
What do you think makes something "right and justified"? Even if you're religious, it doesn't mean you don't have to make these decisions for yourself. As far as I am aware Jesus never said anything about the morality of downloading Madonna's greatest hits off the 'net.
Now we know what we will be doing with all those AOL discs in the future - five minutes under the grill with a knob of butter. Yum!
The Washingtion Times is reporting that the Chinese are using this launch to spy on the USA.
So? It is the responsibility of the military of every country to be prepared in case of war. That means gathering information. The USA does it all the time. Gathering information is not a war-like act, nor does it mean that they are "preparing for war". It would be irresponsible of the Chinese military not to be doing this. They are there primarily to defend China.
I hate this hypocrisy that says that if we do it then it's ok, but if other countries do it, then it isn't.
That guy sounds like he suffers from Schizophrenia:
There's going to be a big war in space soon! Huge!
Not that the USA is going to start the war, on no. We're peaceful people.
But of course, that can't last forever! We might not be able to prevent ourselves starting a war soon.
But we're not war-like here in the USA, not at all.
But those damn Chinese getting into space, that might start a war, oh yes! We'll be ready for them!
I'm not implying that the Chinese are a threat or anything, oh no!
But they might be in the future...
No they won't! I'm not implying that!
As many have noted, Sun have never formed a coherent strategy about linux.
Not just Linux. Java too, and that's their own fricking invention. The where handed an ungodly amount of positive publicity/hype when Java came out, and then they just seemed to p*ss it away.
And StarOffice? Now, I love OpenOffice and all that, but let's not let that blind ourselves to the fact that Sun's strategy with regards to making a profit off it with StarOffice isn't actually very good.
Looks like this might be a key to the whole thing.
Yep, that's what I thought. Especially considering it started life as +2.
Beware...
China becoming an economic superpower would be a good thing, both for its citizens and potentially for the rest of the world (they'll have more money to buy our stuff).
Your assumption is that China will "do bad things" if it becomes a superpower, but I don't think that is a given. The neo-Cons in the current US administration don't want any country to threaten the USAs current economic pole position, and are willing to do whatever it takes to keep the USA there. I think that view is narrow minded, and could be damaging for everyone in the long term. Fortunately it looks like the neo-Cons are finding that their gung-ho attitiude to world affairs don't actually get the results they expect.
Your point is simply not valid.
You're right! All major technologies since America was founded originated in America by Americans, and were not based in any way on any work done outside of America, or by non-Americans.
Now I cannot think of a single thing that someone outside of America has invented. Oh wait! Didn't the French invent waffles?
Thank you for pointing out my misunderstandings. I now understand that:
a) Actually, America invented the web.
b) The European space agency wouldn't have achieved anything if it weren't for America.
c) Americans invented the car, rockets, flight, the internet, and atomic energy (and those Americans would take it as an insult to be called Europeans).
d) Europe has a bad attitude to immigration.
e) Einstein was American.
f) The German work that the Americans used to land on the moon was actually American.
I can see that the observation in my original post - that Americans tend to believe everything was invented in America by Americans - is wrong. Or rather, it was stupid of me to try to claim that anyone other than Americans have ever invented anything significant. I stand corrected. Sorry for my ignorance.
You should learn (and strive to master) the language(s) of your host country or expect to be received as a retarded person or an animal would.
Yes! I bet all those US troops in Iraq are currently making a big effort to learn Arabic and Kurdish...
Actually it was 1932. He was so proud of his german heritage that he gave up his citizenship twice.
Yes, the first time to become Swiss. Which is in Europe.
I think the responses I am getting to my post just demonstrate the point I am trying to make.
Einstein moved to America when he was 52. He had done nearly all his most important work by that time.
You say that this is because Americans have a different attitude to imigration. However, when Americans move abroad you don't seem to consider them no longer American.
I understand Madonna now lives in London. Should I now start referring to her as British? Are all her achievements now British ones? Is Gore Vidal Italian? He's been living there for years. Are his books now Italian ones?
You're just proving the point I am making.
Einstein, of course, was an American, and like many other Americans, he was born somewhere else, and got here as quickly as he could.
Einstein was born in 1879 and moved to America in 1931 at the age of 52.
Your response shows factual errors that just highlight what I am saying.
For instance, Einstein did nearly all his significant work and published most of his important papers whilst he was in Europe. He only fled to the US in around 1931, after he had published nearly all of his most significant work. And yet you seem to believe that Einstein and others like him "only achieved greatness because they fled to a land where they were allowed to develop their ideas." That's just rubbish, and your misunderstanding of Einsteins history just proves the point I am trying to make!
People working in half a dozen different languages (natural languages, that is, not programming languages!),
Welcome to reality. Reality for most of the rest of the world, that is.
In Europe we speak lots of languages. That's the reality of the situation. Of course this isn't as efficient as just speaking one language, but it is the reality. I know, as an American you're probably thinking "well why don't you all just speak English?"
I had a funny situation on the outskirts of San Francisco once. I asked a guy sweeping up outside a MacDonalds some directions. I replied in very stilted English that he couldn't understand me because he didn't speak English. I noticed his accent so I asked him my question in Spanish. The look of suprise and joy on his face was comical. He told me that most Americans can't speak another language and expect you to learn English, but not speaking another language themselves don't realise that learning another language isn't easy. And they treat you like crap and think you're stupid if you can't speak English. I don't know if what he said is true or not, but unfortunately I don't find it hard to believe.
I think one thing that distinguishes the USA from Europe (and in fact many other countries) is that, in the USA, you're really good at hyping stuff.
Over here in Europe we're crap at it, or rather, it's not seen as being so important - which I believe is a mistake.
I was once knew a marketing person at CERN who said that as they had invented the web, they were thinking of putting up some good web pages about it to let the world know what they had achieved. Later I found out that she had been told that it had been decided that it wasn't a priority and so no budget was allocated to it. So outside of techy fields most people in the world don't know that the web was invented in Europe. (Yes, I know the Internet network was an American invention).
This is true of many other achievements in Europe. For instance, everyone in the world knows lots about NASA and yet very little about the achievements of the European Space Agency, which has also done some really impressive things.
The USA also has a good way of claiming innovations as its own, by "Americanising" everything. So, for instance, most people - Americans and non-Americans - think that most technological innovation during the last century has been American, whereas in actual fact much of it was just "absorbed" by America. Example - landing on the moon is seen as a purely American achievement but was actually significantly based on German work. Another example - Einstein was of course European but many people believe he was American.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not really criticising the USA, I'm actually criticising Europe for not promoting its achievements or those of its citizens. And of course one of the great things about the USA is that it has the money and drive to make things happen, which is why many projects initiated in other places end up taking off in the USA. But it is frustrating to meet Americans that believe that everything is invented in America.