For the record (I'm posting this long after the post) I was quoted thoroughly out of context, and I am fully aware of the differences in requirements between SL and PP. I blogged my views on SL and this issue here;
I agree that it could be stronger in lots of ways, and the technology section is deliberately low-level. Frankly I'm not sure it's useful to even have a technology section, and came close to killing it, but remember our focus; independent developers who are thinking about going into MMPs, not big-co's and experienced MMP developers.
And yes, there are ommissions. Volunteer to contribute to the update and next year's paper!
I'm not sure what you mean about naive economic discussion, though.
Alas, in the chain of edit-refine-edit we overlooked making last-minute updates to new numbers. We're planning an update in the next couple of months before GDC, which will reflect Blizzard's success.
We are indeed way too small to show up in this graph; we have just over 5,000 subscribers (announcement to be made next week).
I don't actually think that advertising in gaming magazines would do us that much good, though. TV perhaps, or maybe Woman's Own. But you're right that if we had a mountain of cash we could try it.
For now we advertise/distribute where it makes sense, like shockwave, PA (where not everyone plays yet, I assure you) and, starting this week, popcap.com.
Oh, and we do hope to do a retail release this year. That will bring some ads. Arr!
...of Puzzle Pirates we should comment, also. Our budget was also high compared to others in the IGF (second highest, I think), and I am sensitive to the view that budgets do have a decisive role in what a developer is able to accomplish. That said, I don't think having a higher budget made us any less indie.
Personally I feel that the web/downloadable vs. open distinction was broken, and perhaps next year they'll try a budget-oriented category. We shall see.
As developer of one of the entrants with a relatively high budget, I can't imagine how we could be more 'independent'. Two friends had a ridiculous idea for a Pirate game, hired another friend, two artists, and another friend, made a game. Yes, we were lucky enough to be able to rustle up the money from friends and family to pay salaries, buy servers, etc. If we hadn't, the game would never have been made (for better or for worse none of the development team are at a time of life where they can live without earning some money).
As it is we've made PP for substantially less than 1/20th of the cost of recent big-corp developed MMPs such as the Sims Online. So we're pretty cheap. Restricting the budgets of entrants to ~$10,000 would make it the 'cheap games written by moonlight or students' competition, not the independent games festival. There's a place for both, of course.
This is indeed analogous to the independent movie vs. studio movie distinction. I believe that most independent films cost hundreds of thousands, some a lot less, some quite a bit more.
That said, I agree about the points below regarding entrants being required to attend. There is a student showcase, perhaps there should be another category for people who are unable to made the GDC. I don't think $100 entry fee is out of line, although I did baulk at the $1,000 entry fee for the 'Interactive Academy' or whatnot awards.
For sure, Puzzle Pirates is going more for Yahoo!'s audience than EQ's. That said, a lot of our players are old school veterans from EQ, UO, AC and other MMORPGs. They like the change from a levelling treadmill, that player-skill counts a lot more than grinding, and the player-driven economy, colonisation etc.
I'm not going to presume that Puzzle Pirates is the game to rock the MMP world, as we're pretty small and independent, but I will say that I think that a radical departure from both fantasy genre and level-based progression gameplay will be what rocks, not yet another diku. Not wishing to imply that WoW is necessarily that, as I've not been following it too closely.
As a developer on an MMP (see the/. story next to this one) I think you've hit the nail on the head; most gamers don't know enough about, or plain aren't interested in game balance. However, some of my players do know the game better than me, and I listen to them. I don't always do what they say... but my ears are always open.
It's actually in Java 1.4 which is 'getting there' on the Mac. The next version in 10.3 is much better, but still has some issues that we hope will come out in the wash before Christmas. Alas, it's largely out of our (Three Rings') hands. We'd love to have it working on the Mac.
Whilst the field of Java gaming is pretty sparsely planted, there are a few efforts.
We're developing our game Puzzle Pirates on Linux in Java 1.4. It also runs on Windows and OSX (sorta, pending apple's swing fixes). It's an MMP based on Pirates and uh Puzzle games, in free alpharrr testing.
I believe that you're equating 'indie' with 'unprofessional'. This is clearly false; there are now a number of developers and small shops who are creating games without retail publisher funding or interference in a professional manner; PopCap, Pyrogon (Brian Hook's company), Gamelab, us and so forth. Of course these projects aren't fiascos of 3D content and over-production, like independent movies aren't special fx blockblusters, but neither are they amateur wannabee-gamedev material.
Fundamentally I believe that the answer does come with independent game development, because it's only through proving new markets and styles of gameplay that 'publishers' will wake up and start funding such projects. I am all for balanced relationships between publishers and developers, but the current dismal state of big-budget game development is clearly not trending in that direction.
Games like this (and Tetris, and Solitaire, and so many others) are simply antisocial and psychologically crippling. You play for hours, not because you're "enjoying" it, but because your brain is too numbed to stop.
I don't agree with this comment, myself -- I think exercising the mind with Puzzle games is quite good for the brain. However, I have seen felt the post-puzzle 'ugh, what have I done with the last few hours' (as I've also felt from/.) and indeed, that was a part of the inspiration behind my game:
Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates puts games like Tetris etc. in the context of a Pirate-themed MMP game, neatly eliminating your complaint; the game is intensely social (you puzzle with or against other Pirates) and lots of fun. Skill at puzzling actually means something to you and other players.
We're in early Alpha testing, pop over, register and I'll slip yer in the test. BTW it's in Java 1.4 and we develop on Linux.
Slashdot Mirror
For the record (I'm posting this long after the post) I was quoted thoroughly out of context, and I am fully aware of the differences in requirements between SL and PP. I blogged my views on SL and this issue here;
http://thefloggingwillcontinue.com/?p=9
They are much more subtle than the quote would indicate. Yay, journalism!
I agree that it could be stronger in lots of ways, and the technology section is deliberately low-level. Frankly I'm not sure it's useful to even have a technology section, and came close to killing it, but remember our focus; independent developers who are thinking about going into MMPs, not big-co's and experienced MMP developers.
And yes, there are ommissions. Volunteer to contribute to the update and next year's paper!
I'm not sure what you mean about naive economic discussion, though.
Alas, in the chain of edit-refine-edit we overlooked making last-minute updates to new numbers. We're planning an update in the next couple of months before GDC, which will reflect Blizzard's success.
Ahoy mates. Thanks for the kind words.
We are indeed way too small to show up in this graph; we have just over 5,000 subscribers (announcement to be made next week).
I don't actually think that advertising in gaming magazines would do us that much good, though. TV perhaps, or maybe Woman's Own. But you're right that if we had a mountain of cash we could try it.
For now we advertise/distribute where it makes sense, like shockwave, PA (where not everyone plays yet, I assure you) and, starting this week, popcap.com.
Oh, and we do hope to do a retail release this year. That will bring some ads. Arr!
...of Puzzle Pirates we should comment, also. Our budget was also high compared to others in the IGF (second highest, I think), and I am sensitive to the view that budgets do have a decisive role in what a developer is able to accomplish. That said, I don't think having a higher budget made us any less indie.
Personally I feel that the web/downloadable vs. open distinction was broken, and perhaps next year they'll try a budget-oriented category. We shall see.
As developer of one of the entrants with a relatively high budget, I can't imagine how we could be more 'independent'. Two friends had a ridiculous idea for a Pirate game, hired another friend, two artists, and another friend, made a game. Yes, we were lucky enough to be able to rustle up the money from friends and family to pay salaries, buy servers, etc. If we hadn't, the game would never have been made (for better or for worse none of the development team are at a time of life where they can live without earning some money).
As it is we've made PP for substantially less than 1/20th of the cost of recent big-corp developed MMPs such as the Sims Online. So we're pretty cheap. Restricting the budgets of entrants to ~$10,000 would make it the 'cheap games written by moonlight or students' competition, not the independent games festival. There's a place for both, of course.
This is indeed analogous to the independent movie vs. studio movie distinction. I believe that most independent films cost hundreds of thousands, some a lot less, some quite a bit more.
That said, I agree about the points below regarding entrants being required to attend. There is a student showcase, perhaps there should be another category for people who are unable to made the GDC. I don't think $100 entry fee is out of line, although I did baulk at the $1,000 entry fee for the 'Interactive Academy' or whatnot awards.
For sure, Puzzle Pirates is going more for Yahoo!'s audience than EQ's. That said, a lot of our players are old school veterans from EQ, UO, AC and other MMORPGs. They like the change from a levelling treadmill, that player-skill counts a lot more than grinding, and the player-driven economy, colonisation etc.
I'm not going to presume that Puzzle Pirates is the game to rock the MMP world, as we're pretty small and independent, but I will say that I think that a radical departure from both fantasy genre and level-based progression gameplay will be what rocks, not yet another diku. Not wishing to imply that WoW is necessarily that, as I've not been following it too closely.
As a developer on an MMP (see the /. story next to this one) I think you've hit the nail on the head; most gamers don't know enough about, or plain aren't interested in game balance. However, some of my players do know the game better than me, and I listen to them. I don't always do what they say... but my ears are always open.
It's actually in Java 1.4 which is 'getting there' on the Mac. The next version in 10.3 is much better, but still has some issues that we hope will come out in the wash before Christmas. Alas, it's largely out of our (Three Rings') hands. We'd love to have it working on the Mac.
- Daniel (Capn Cleaver to many)
You and your wife, and her friends, should try:
http://www.puzzlepirates.com/
Puzzles + MMP + Pirates == Arrr!
Whilst the field of Java gaming is pretty sparsely planted, there are a few efforts.
We're developing our game Puzzle Pirates on Linux in Java 1.4. It also runs on Windows and OSX (sorta, pending apple's swing fixes). It's an MMP based on Pirates and uh Puzzle games, in free alpharrr testing.
I believe that you're equating 'indie' with 'unprofessional'. This is clearly false; there are now a number of developers and small shops who are creating games without retail publisher funding or interference in a professional manner; PopCap, Pyrogon (Brian Hook's company), Gamelab, us and so forth. Of course these projects aren't fiascos of 3D content and over-production, like independent movies aren't special fx blockblusters, but neither are they amateur wannabee-gamedev material.
Fundamentally I believe that the answer does come with independent game development, because it's only through proving new markets and styles of gameplay that 'publishers' will wake up and start funding such projects. I am all for balanced relationships between publishers and developers, but the current dismal state of big-budget game development is clearly not trending in that direction.
'Pirates + Puzzles + MMP = Kick Ass' - User Comment
Puzzle Pirates
Games like this (and Tetris, and Solitaire, and so many others) are simply antisocial and psychologically crippling. You play for hours, not because you're "enjoying" it, but because your brain is too numbed to stop.
I don't agree with this comment, myself -- I think exercising the mind with Puzzle games is quite good for the brain. However, I have seen felt the post-puzzle 'ugh, what have I done with the last few hours' (as I've also felt from
Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates puts games like Tetris etc. in the context of a Pirate-themed MMP game, neatly eliminating your complaint; the game is intensely social (you puzzle with or against other Pirates) and lots of fun. Skill at puzzling actually means something to you and other players.
We're in early Alpha testing, pop over, register and I'll slip yer in the test. BTW it's in Java 1.4 and we develop on Linux.
- Daniel, or Captain Cleaver to some