I'm working in IT right now, and I think your idea that servers will someday maintain themselves is somewhat mistaken. I've found that rather than catering to the servers needs, I am usually tied up dealing with users needs. Passwords need to be reset, accounts need to be trimmed, and broken machines need to be tended. The server itself is not a huge part of the job, and usually only really needs sporatic updates, and sometimes a new piece of software. Sometimes something bad happens to it, but it's relatively rare for such things to happen, and when something really bad happens, it requires human ingenuity to fix it(otherwise, the server would have already repaired itself).
Right, because no software from companies other than Microsoft ever has security or reliability issues? Don't kid yourself!
Most of those products are lambasted as buggy and insecure as well.
Besides which, I don't know of many companies which have such a bad track record of having nearly every product they release almost unsuable because of bugs in it's first release.
You are mad if they do patch. You are mad if they don't patch. Make up your mind Slashdotters!
I think everybody would be content if Microsoft made an attempt to make their software reliable and secure before they release it... You know, kind of like the standards we also hold the rest of the software industry to?
I'm just wondering...What sites say that? I haven't touched IE in months (k-meleon + 98lite makes for an uncrashable web machine, and at work I generally use Mozilla or K-Meleon), and I've never come across one...
I think this paragraph is key. These schools need GOOD support. No Linux zealots, or computer snobs, or holier-than-though attitudes, for Linux to WIN (slight pun intended) in the school systems.
People like that never get any work done. I don't see any of them volunteering.
#1 I actually did use the default one (I forgot whether it was GRUB or LILO).........but when I'd try to log in.........no Windows (or DOS) option. Only Linux. That's wierd.
#4 -- o.k., i'll try your advice on that one, but I still think it is dumb that you can add an applet so easily, but can't take it away via the same method. I just installed 7.3 last night, and now that feature exists in both KDE and Gnome... #5 -- you are lucky to have your intuition, because the little two books they give seriously aren't worth a damn. It seems thrown together by like one guy. I resorted to buying a book (Running Linux, o'reilly) which has helped.
To be honest, for something as big as Linux, it's probably best that you just go out and buy a book on the subject anyway.
#6 -- well, I hope you are right, and the 7.3 kernel will support my (very common) soundcard. But won't I still need to re-compile, and answer lots of obscure hardware questions? Not for the faint of heart.
Nope, no re-compile, no questions, nothing. The installer will take care of it, and if you upgrade the kernel seperately, Kudzu will take care of it. Driver support in Linux (and more importantly, the ability of the end user to install drivers without knowing about the underlying OS) is getting really good. #7 -- with the "lokkit" thing, there are only like 3 options, low-medium-high (and then a short custom list), so I still don't think it was my fault there. (also found a couple of other similar testimonies on the Net) My networking was working okay till I messed with that damn thing.
Again, I'll have to take your word for it.
so all in all, not the best experience. I'm leaning toward trying Mandrake now, but I damn sure won't pay for it. I'm a fool for having done so with Red Hat. Live and learn, I guess...
oh, one more aside before I bore you to tears -- when I went to register for my "support" (which only covers basic installation questions - no soundcard stuff allowed) - their site said my product ID did not exist. Imagine my anger; already I was pissed off and frustrated! To their credit, they responded promptly to my indignant e-mail with a working number. Alas, by then my mind had been made up.
My bad. I never used their tech support, so I didn't know how it was.
there is one thing all this has made me realize, though. "Free" software like Linux still has an amateurish, non-integrated feel to it. Windows 98 seems fairly tight by comparison; it even plays my mp3's! (I still despise it of course.) Maybe OS-X?
Er...We are in disagreement there. I am finding that over time, Linux as a whole becomes more professional, and at this point suprises me sometimes by what it can do. Even the utilities it comes with are getting better, to the point where I can use a machine without having a terminal open 24/7.
P.S. I'm not flaming you, I'm trying to help -- but after a hard day as a computer tech, my diplomacy is all gone.:)
The traditional Canadian greeting is *NOT* "I am Canadian, and I am better than you."! The traditional Canadian greeting is "Hey. Have a beer.", followed by the typical Canadian response of "mmmmmmmmmm....beer....":)
Canada is a nation built upon the qualities of drunkards throughout history, and proud of their history(which none of us can remember......)
Also, the hulk hogan thing was a joke. All I was doing was agreeing to the original post (I assume it was yours?) which derided American politics. If it was about how the government of Manitoba is incompotent, I'd jump right in too. If it was an arguement slamming Mike Harris for cutting costs like he did, I'd jump right in as well, defending the politician who actually delivered his promises, despite the hordes of whining recievers of taxpayers money(mostly the habitually unemployed...).
Frankly, I'm done with this conversation. Believe whatever you want to believe. I really don't care. If you'd like to put me into some mould of jingoistic Canadians because you one knew one, go ahead. Personally, I have no real ties to this nation, and would happily live in any one of a dozen countries throught the world if I had the chance, but if you want to believe I am a jingoist, go ahead.
1)Use Grub, or rather, don't change the setting in the first place, because lilo isn't default in RedHat 7.2. It was set as default when you installed the thing, don't complain when you mess with settings you don't understand and you break the OS.
2) No comment -- I didn't even know this existed.
3)So is Windows XP. It's a grim fact of life that if you want to run a modern OS, it will be slow. Ask anyone using Windows XP on 64 MB of ram about that. On the other hand, Linux can be made to run fairly lean, and I've had it running on a p133 without too much trouble.
4)Hit ctrl-esc to bring up the KDE equivilant to the task manager, click on "tree view", and kill the applet. It's sitting right under the "kicker" item. No matter which OS you are running, there will sometimes be applications which have lousy interfaces. Linux has quite a bit better fidelity when you want to kill these applications.(ie. you don't need to hunt around for a utility on the internet to uninstall it, like some Windows programs)
5)No comment. I may have a comment the day I find a manual which actually helps me do something. So far, intuition gets me further than that, so I usually need to surf to find my answers.
6)You'd be suprised how easy it is to exist without ever needing to re-compile. I had the same sort of problem (sis AC97 sound on a sis 735 mobo), but downloading the latest kernel from RedHat fixed it. Downloading 7.3 would likely fix both our problems.
7) There are two possibilities in this case, and I'm inclined to go with the first: Odds are, your networking never worked. Since you were booting off the floppy, it's possible that your interfaces never came up. The other possibility is that you were mucking around with something you didn't understand -- even at high security, the firewall doesn't block outgoing communications. It blocks incoming communications(like hackers trying to hack your box).
One tip: When you paid that 60 dollars for RedHat, you weren't paying to have to hack around to get things working; Calling tech support was an option, and they likely would have talked you through an installation which wouldn't have had the same problems.
I would have agreed with you if we were talking about RH 5, because it's UI was an embarassing attempt at cloning the windows gui. I would have agreed with you if we were talking about RH 7.1 even, because the threat of data loss from a single power outage was too great to recommend it. RedHat 7.2, on the other hand, is the version I believe is ready for prime time, and I am quite excited about trying out RedHat 7.3, with even more hardware support, an even better UI, and more graphical tools to make the world an easier place to be for a mouse user.
The hardest would have to be the MS arguement mage. The problem isn't really that experience is hard to get, it's the difficulty of finding powerful arguements. In the end, most other characters build a defense to the few which are generally tossed around, but when someone discovers a new one, it's effects are powerful, longlasting, and the arguement is likely to be copied by other MS arguement mages and Trolls.
The "realist cynic" class blows both the MS arguement mage and the troll out of the water for pure difficulty of leveling up -- they have one attack -- the "you damn high school kids don't know anything about the real world" attack. Makes winning battles very difficult.:)
Then I have got some beachland in Florida I'd love to sell you. Right on a nude beach! Next to a porn studio! On the other side is the free beer plant! Free Internet Access!
Actually, it's a pebble I found off the ground, but hey! You spent 100 Gs on it, and my right to lie to you is protected, right?
To maintain a society which can function, sometimes rights need to be given in moderation.
I hold no paticular ties to this nation, or indeed this continent, and would happily live in any one of a dozen nations, given the chance. The main reason I used local politics is because it's something I hear about on the radio daily. It isn't often I hear about politics coming out of England, or the Netherlands, or Australia, or Germany, or New Zealand, but Canadian news and Canadian politics are generally the first thing I hear about on the radio in the morning on the radio, and as such, my knowlege of Canadian politics is a somewhat better base of knowlege from which to draw a thought or experience than others. Really, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to comment on the leader ship of German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.
You are correct, but these only were able to happen because people stood up and protested the abysmal conditions which surrounded them, which is why we have such things as Unions today. In this case, having someone better off fighting those battles is a good thing. The hope isn't that these factories will be shut down, but that they will be changed for the better -- better safety, better pay, though I think a lot of people are pushing for the former in huge doses, and the latter in smaller doses...
Perhaps you should take a look at what's on TV right now. Odds are, no matter which channel you turn to, you will see some garbage spilling out about how great America is(don't argue with me on this point -- we get your TV.). I think we should re-examine "immodest", and paint a line between national pride and immodesty, especially in this case. Perhaps you would rather I use another nations politics as a measure than my own?
There's the difference between us then; I don't like playing a game after I've already won. Something tells me I won't be posting to slashdot much after I hit 50....on the other hand, it could be because everybodys so goddamn serious here!
I've thought that for a long time of US politicians. I sort of stopped paying attention shortly after I realized how underinformed, panicky, and generally badly they collectively reacted to Sept 11th. Even considering the crisis going on about them, they seemed to be the first to try to point a finger on someone they could bomb, and the first to start considering everyone an enemy.
Though I may be biased in this example, I've found that in his public appearances, Jean Cretien(the Prime Minister of Canada) has been far wittier and far more charismatic than any recent US leader(okay, maybe Hulk Hogan beats him on pure Charisma:) ).
While you're at it, define "the". And define "3rd word countries".
A sweatshop is a constant, no matter where a person lives. If you are constantly forced to work illegal amounts of overtime in hazardous environments for very little pay, you are working in a sweatshop. The fact that you sit there in front of your 1000 dollar luxury item sort of precludes you making any sort of judgement in this case.
The kid who is paid a dollar each week to sort AIDS needles with no shoes or gloves on is still a living atrocity, no matter where you live.
What? You haven't even reached level 2 (+1 land). It's easy to get modded up when you post at 1 default, but at 2, it starts getting challenging.
Me, I'm just 3 away from winning this game. I had the gall to post my actual opinions for a while there, so I didn't advance, but I'm still in the game.
Like I said...It's just a bunch of people who want a free lunch who complain about the GPL(that and yes-men, but they don't really matter, do they?). Use of the software is truly and completely free in any sense of the word, so the people complaining want to be able to pick up someone elses code and use it for free(and in a lot of cases, use that free code to make money in their busines) without any restrictions.
If regular people were immortal, had incredible wealth and power, and had the same privileges corporations have now in addition to the ones granted to them as people, I'd agree with you. As it stands, without some incredible medical, financial, and sociological breakthroughs, I think corporations will have the upper hand for some time in regards to the degree they can use and abuse their powers as "people".
I like your sig. Too many people like to confuse the issues when it comes to GPL restrictions, and your sig really makes it clear.
Personally, I don't use the GPL on my code (I use a Open Source, Closed Content model, much like id software does with Quake and Doom), but I respect the fact that coders who do should be allowed the choice to do so, despite the whining of a few lazy bastards who want a free meal.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm working in IT right now, and I think your idea that servers will someday maintain themselves is somewhat mistaken. I've found that rather than catering to the servers needs, I am usually tied up dealing with users needs. Passwords need to be reset, accounts need to be trimmed, and broken machines need to be tended. The server itself is not a huge part of the job, and usually only really needs sporatic updates, and sometimes a new piece of software. Sometimes something bad happens to it, but it's relatively rare for such things to happen, and when something really bad happens, it requires human ingenuity to fix it(otherwise, the server would have already repaired itself).
Right, because no software from companies other than Microsoft ever has security or reliability issues? Don't kid yourself!
Most of those products are lambasted as buggy and insecure as well.
Besides which, I don't know of many companies which have such a bad track record of having nearly every product they release almost unsuable because of bugs in it's first release.
I'm pretty sure the latest version of RedHat does. It even has a desktop applet under Gnome which takes care of reminding you to run the program.
You are mad if they do patch. You are mad if they don't patch. Make up your mind Slashdotters!
... You know, kind of like the standards we also hold the rest of the software industry to?
I think everybody would be content if Microsoft made an attempt to make their software reliable and secure before they release it
XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX - - [XX/XXX/XXXX:XX:XX:XX -XXXX] "GET / HTTP/1.0" XXX XXX "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.5) Gecko/20011011"
That's the log entry for K-Meleon. Perhaps the Mozilla revision number is the important part?
Odd. K-Meleon works fine. I'll have to point this to my web server and check out the user-agent.
I'm just wondering...What sites say that? I haven't touched IE in months (k-meleon + 98lite makes for an uncrashable web machine, and at work I generally use Mozilla or K-Meleon), and I've never come across one...
I think this paragraph is key. These schools need GOOD support. No Linux zealots, or computer snobs, or holier-than-though attitudes, for Linux to WIN (slight pun intended) in the school systems.
People like that never get any work done. I don't see any of them volunteering.
#1 I actually did use the default one (I forgot whether it was GRUB or LILO).........but when I'd try to log in.........no Windows (or DOS) option. Only Linux.
:)
That's wierd.
#4 -- o.k., i'll try your advice on that one, but I still think it is dumb that you can add an applet so easily, but can't take it away via the same method.
I just installed 7.3 last night, and now that feature exists in both KDE and Gnome...
#5 -- you are lucky to have your intuition, because the little two books they give seriously aren't worth a damn. It seems thrown together by like one guy. I resorted to buying a book (Running Linux, o'reilly) which has helped.
To be honest, for something as big as Linux, it's probably best that you just go out and buy a book on the subject anyway.
#6 -- well, I hope you are right, and the 7.3 kernel will support my (very common) soundcard. But won't I still need to re-compile, and answer lots of obscure hardware questions? Not for the faint of heart.
Nope, no re-compile, no questions, nothing. The installer will take care of it, and if you upgrade the kernel seperately, Kudzu will take care of it. Driver support in Linux (and more importantly, the ability of the end user to install drivers without knowing about the underlying OS) is getting really good.
#7 -- with the "lokkit" thing, there are only like 3 options, low-medium-high (and then a short custom list), so I still don't think it was my fault there. (also found a couple of other similar testimonies on the Net) My networking was working okay till I messed with that damn thing.
Again, I'll have to take your word for it.
so all in all, not the best experience. I'm leaning toward trying Mandrake now, but I damn sure won't pay for it. I'm a fool for having done so with Red Hat.
Live and learn, I guess...
oh, one more aside before I bore you to tears -- when I went to register for my "support" (which only covers basic installation questions - no soundcard stuff allowed) - their site said my product ID did not exist. Imagine my anger; already I was pissed off and frustrated! To their credit, they responded promptly to my indignant e-mail with a working number. Alas, by then my mind had been made up.
My bad. I never used their tech support, so I didn't know how it was.
there is one thing all this has made me realize, though. "Free" software like Linux still has an amateurish, non-integrated feel to it. Windows 98 seems fairly tight by comparison; it even plays my mp3's! (I still despise it of course.) Maybe OS-X?
Er...We are in disagreement there. I am finding that over time, Linux as a whole becomes more professional, and at this point suprises me sometimes by what it can do. Even the utilities it comes with are getting better, to the point where I can use a machine without having a terminal open 24/7.
P.S. I'm not flaming you, I'm trying to help -- but after a hard day as a computer tech, my diplomacy is all gone.
Actually, he's suprisingly witty. I was suprised the first time I heard him in a non-political conversation.
Though his speech impediments are good for a laugh once in a while.
P.S I wasn't trolling anyone. Simply stating my opinion.
The traditional Canadian greeting is *NOT* "I am Canadian, and I am better than you."! The traditional Canadian greeting is "Hey. Have a beer.", followed by the typical Canadian response of "mmmmmmmmmm....beer...." :)
Canada is a nation built upon the qualities of drunkards throughout history, and proud of their history(which none of us can remember......)
Also, the hulk hogan thing was a joke. All I was doing was agreeing to the original post (I assume it was yours?) which derided American politics. If it was about how the government of Manitoba is incompotent, I'd jump right in too. If it was an arguement slamming Mike Harris for cutting costs like he did, I'd jump right in as well, defending the politician who actually delivered his promises, despite the hordes of whining recievers of taxpayers money(mostly the habitually unemployed...).
Frankly, I'm done with this conversation. Believe whatever you want to believe. I really don't care. If you'd like to put me into some mould of jingoistic Canadians because you one knew one, go ahead. Personally, I have no real ties to this nation, and would happily live in any one of a dozen countries throught the world if I had the chance, but if you want to believe I am a jingoist, go ahead.
1)Use Grub, or rather, don't change the setting in the first place, because lilo isn't default in RedHat 7.2. It was set as default when you installed the thing, don't complain when you mess with settings you don't understand and you break the OS.
2) No comment -- I didn't even know this existed.
3)So is Windows XP. It's a grim fact of life that if you want to run a modern OS, it will be slow. Ask anyone using Windows XP on 64 MB of ram about that. On the other hand, Linux can be made to run fairly lean, and I've had it running on a p133 without too much trouble.
4)Hit ctrl-esc to bring up the KDE equivilant to the task manager, click on "tree view", and kill the applet. It's sitting right under the "kicker" item. No matter which OS you are running, there will sometimes be applications which have lousy interfaces. Linux has quite a bit better fidelity when you want to kill these applications.(ie. you don't need to hunt around for a utility on the internet to uninstall it, like some Windows programs)
5)No comment. I may have a comment the day I find a manual which actually helps me do something. So far, intuition gets me further than that, so I usually need to surf to find my answers.
6)You'd be suprised how easy it is to exist without ever needing to re-compile. I had the same sort of problem (sis AC97 sound on a sis 735 mobo), but downloading the latest kernel from RedHat fixed it. Downloading 7.3 would likely fix both our problems.
7) There are two possibilities in this case, and I'm inclined to go with the first: Odds are, your networking never worked. Since you were booting off the floppy, it's possible that your interfaces never came up. The other possibility is that you were mucking around with something you didn't understand -- even at high security, the firewall doesn't block outgoing communications. It blocks incoming communications(like hackers trying to hack your box).
One tip: When you paid that 60 dollars for RedHat, you weren't paying to have to hack around to get things working; Calling tech support was an option, and they likely would have talked you through an installation which wouldn't have had the same problems.
I would have agreed with you if we were talking about RH 5, because it's UI was an embarassing attempt at cloning the windows gui. I would have agreed with you if we were talking about RH 7.1 even, because the threat of data loss from a single power outage was too great to recommend it. RedHat 7.2, on the other hand, is the version I believe is ready for prime time, and I am quite excited about trying out RedHat 7.3, with even more hardware support, an even better UI, and more graphical tools to make the world an easier place to be for a mouse user.
What about existentialist athiests?
The hardest would have to be the MS arguement mage. The problem isn't really that experience is hard to get, it's the difficulty of finding powerful arguements. In the end, most other characters build a defense to the few which are generally tossed around, but when someone discovers a new one, it's effects are powerful, longlasting, and the arguement is likely to be copied by other MS arguement mages and Trolls.
:)
The "realist cynic" class blows both the MS arguement mage and the troll out of the water for pure difficulty of leveling up -- they have one attack -- the "you damn high school kids don't know anything about the real world" attack. Makes winning battles very difficult.
Then I have got some beachland in Florida I'd love to sell you. Right on a nude beach! Next to a porn studio! On the other side is the free beer plant! Free Internet Access!
Actually, it's a pebble I found off the ground, but hey! You spent 100 Gs on it, and my right to lie to you is protected, right?
To maintain a society which can function, sometimes rights need to be given in moderation.
One other thing....I am not jingoistic.
I hold no paticular ties to this nation, or indeed this continent, and would happily live in any one of a dozen nations, given the chance.
The main reason I used local politics is because it's something I hear about on the radio daily. It isn't often I hear about politics coming out of England, or the Netherlands, or Australia, or Germany, or New Zealand, but Canadian news and Canadian politics are generally the first thing I hear about on the radio in the morning on the radio, and as such, my knowlege of Canadian politics is a somewhat better base of knowlege from which to draw a thought or experience than others. Really, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to comment on the leader ship of German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder.
You are correct, but these only were able to happen because people stood up and protested the abysmal conditions which surrounded them, which is why we have such things as Unions today. In this case, having someone better off fighting those battles is a good thing. The hope isn't that these factories will be shut down, but that they will be changed for the better -- better safety, better pay, though I think a lot of people are pushing for the former in huge doses, and the latter in smaller doses...
uh huh................
killjoy.
Perhaps you should take a look at what's on TV right now. Odds are, no matter which channel you turn to, you will see some garbage spilling out about how great America is(don't argue with me on this point -- we get your TV.). I think we should re-examine "immodest", and paint a line between national pride and immodesty, especially in this case. Perhaps you would rather I use another nations politics as a measure than my own?
There's the difference between us then; I don't like playing a game after I've already won. Something tells me I won't be posting to slashdot much after I hit 50....on the other hand, it could be because everybodys so goddamn serious here!
I've thought that for a long time of US politicians. I sort of stopped paying attention shortly after I realized how underinformed, panicky, and generally badly they collectively reacted to Sept 11th. Even considering the crisis going on about them, they seemed to be the first to try to point a finger on someone they could bomb, and the first to start considering everyone an enemy.
:) ).
Though I may be biased in this example, I've found that in his public appearances, Jean Cretien(the Prime Minister of Canada) has been far wittier and far more charismatic than any recent US leader(okay, maybe Hulk Hogan beats him on pure Charisma
While you're at it, define "the". And define "3rd word countries".
A sweatshop is a constant, no matter where a person lives. If you are constantly forced to work illegal amounts of overtime in hazardous environments for very little pay, you are working in a sweatshop. The fact that you sit there in front of your 1000 dollar luxury item sort of precludes you making any sort of judgement in this case.
The kid who is paid a dollar each week to sort AIDS needles with no shoes or gloves on is still a living atrocity, no matter where you live.
What? You haven't even reached level 2 (+1 land). It's easy to get modded up when you post at 1 default, but at 2, it starts getting challenging.
Me, I'm just 3 away from winning this game. I had the gall to post my actual opinions for a while there, so I didn't advance, but I'm still in the game.
Like I said...It's just a bunch of people who want a free lunch who complain about the GPL(that and yes-men, but they don't really matter, do they?). Use of the software is truly and completely free in any sense of the word, so the people complaining want to be able to pick up someone elses code and use it for free(and in a lot of cases, use that free code to make money in their busines) without any restrictions.
If regular people were immortal, had incredible wealth and power, and had the same privileges corporations have now in addition to the ones granted to them as people, I'd agree with you. As it stands, without some incredible medical, financial, and sociological breakthroughs, I think corporations will have the upper hand for some time in regards to the degree they can use and abuse their powers as "people".
I like your sig. Too many people like to confuse the issues when it comes to GPL restrictions, and your sig really makes it clear.
Personally, I don't use the GPL on my code (I use a Open Source, Closed Content model, much like id software does with Quake and Doom), but I respect the fact that coders who do should be allowed the choice to do so, despite the whining of a few lazy bastards who want a free meal.