That's a weird way to say "There aren't really that many developers or other technically skilled users who don't want systemd."
And that is just half of it. Systemd breaks a lot of existing systems, and most importantly, its direction promises to waste ever more time breaking things that have been working smoothly for decades by using a completely new paradigm. That means that for older users, instead of being able to rely on established and well learned paradigms that took years to do a deep learning to master, and to move forward with more important and newer skills, that they have to double back and relearn the basics again, and for no good reason other than twisted egos of people 20 years younger.
For younger people what it means is that they will never learn what a truly open system that is well designed is like. Everything is now tied in and held close to the breast in one hog of a binary that only understands a top down approach to OS design. But hey, you never miss what you never had.
As for the post itself, it speaks plainly and doesn't need a malicious rewording. Like any other distro, they are less than a year old and working on building a community. It says nothing about how many developers or other technically skilled users who don't want systemd. How ever many that there are, and there are probably millions, as usually only a few have the time and financial independence to dedicate to writing an OS for free. ***So if you are interest, this is a great way to learn about package management and OS design, and here is a chance to get in while the ceiling is still low. If you are not interest... really who cares. Don't volunteer then. You are just a noise making troll pissed of to see someone else enjoying the party.***
The previous standard interactions with init, including the use of shell scripts in/etc/init.d, and the chkconfig and service commands still work. You don't actually need to learn anything new unless you want to take advantage of the new features that systemd offers.
So you might be able to see why your argument rings hollow.
That is not true on both fronts. The standard init stuff does not work with systemd. Not the login scripts, the X scripts, sound scripts, and more.
Secodnly, you do need to learn how systemd does weird stuff, unless you want a system where systemd allows any password to work with sudo - and other weird stuff that has leaked into the distros.
The distros that adopted systemd didn't just keep using the same init scripts. They adapted to it. In order to get around it, everything is affected from udev on up the food chain. The borad change in the distros since adaptation can not be avoided because of a smug comment on slashdot.
I'd volunteer to maintain the SystemD package and help them move to the future. >>
My future is watching my grandchildren play in the sand in the beach and continuing research on computational applications to biological and genetic problem....mostly using C++ and R.
It is not chasing Pottering garbage down a rabbit hole and wondering why X won't start up after 40 years of stability because systemd broke it.
systemd keeps services (including user login sessions, which it treats the same way) as a group of processes, which the previous systems did not. When I stopped a service under SysV init, it would terminate the "main" process, but if that process had started children, they might not receive that signal. Thus, SysV init might leave some resources used, and attempting to start the service later might fail. systemd can reliably terminate a service and all its descendant processes.>>
Systemd did not invent that, and it doesn't do it very well. Cascade affects like that usually screw users, like when you're database is turned off by a failed webserver, and then your LDAP, which also might depend on the database service doesn't work and you can't then log in.
Regardless, this kind of dependency was not invented by systemd, and is capable of being done by a variety of system, no of which also take over logins, counsels, and journals.
My favorite of course, is logind, which is totally broken in systemd.
Like the intern who wrote the Linux kernel. I've heard dishonest critism like that for decades and it always comes from some deep seated basic misunderstanding of how the world work. Most init scripts are not written by interns, but those that are, that is OK as well.
It is better than trusting everything to a single development team.... one I am not particularly trustful of.
I can't read on the comments any longer accept in chrome. I thought it might be noscript, evidently there is something more fundamentally wrong. I only see about 3 comments, and nothing else is coming down. It is now unusable,
who cares. They aren't the government and are trying to prevent protest using freely available resources. if you tried to protest against me I would do the same thing
hard to use something if it isn't obvious and known. Tab Groups... looks cook but I hardly knew you. Its OK - I can still open up several windows with lots of tabs and use wmaker to swap around... See, if they weren't targeting crippled windwos and apple boxes, it wouldn't have been needed.
The Guardian is not a rational newspaper. Front page News. Big international conference - 3 weeks after massive military attack be Islamic guerilla agents have killed hundred all through Paris. Police prevent demonstrations but allow grocery store shopping.
Maybe you are right, and Paris should close their economy down. The conference will be a joke anyway. It is just cover for China's increasing tide of industrial waste.
This is Bullshit. You can't have a situation where trucks and drivers in sound vehicals become the objects of choice to hit on the road. Focus on missing objects and building study cars. It is the regulations for car construction that must adress the soundness of vehicals in a crash.
Sometimes the obvious just sits in front of your nose and you can't see it, even with a room full of PhD's. Mankind domesticated Sheep, Dogs, Cattle, Horses, pigs, and Chickens, all resulting in a diverse array of sub-types and phenotypes. Low and Behold, the very first species that we domesticates was Mankind itself...
Why do they think that Water Buffalo and Elephants can drink from Savana Mud and water holes, but humans would die in if they did so weeks...
Wow...mankind's evolution is influenced by mankind's culture and breeding selections. Big surprise but it is OBVIOUS. Even birds self select for color and such..
This was hotly discussed with the OLPC debates and I'll quote this:
In response to many of the questions regarding the changes in the OLPC project, and specifically the decision to base the project at this juncture to a Microsoft Operating System, proponents of this change have come out swinging against Free Software developers who have worked for the current Free Interface, code named Sugar. A large segment of the critique of the against Free Software developers like Bender is that they have put their "Open Source" agenda above the welfare of the project. Others claim that the "Open Source" advocates should be pleased with the what has already been done and that the project as it stands can either be relaunched or has already met goals.
The problem, though, is that in many ways, the marketing and financial positioning of the OLPC program is harder to develop then the hardware and software. And the goals that have been met are small in light of the original mission of the OLPC project.
An operating system is more than a commodity. It becomes the looking glass that develops how the user thinks and it literally shapes the mind of it's users. A system which is at it's core designed to disenfranchise users from the learning experience, especially in how the user views the software itself through learned expectations, and forces information access through monopolistic channels and filters, undermines the development of critical thinking skills. In geek terms, the operating system reprograms the end user. The Microsoft operating system is designed to do so from the ground up. It is in fact the only intended use of the Microsoft Windows Operating System franchise.
The interaction between technology on human and societal development dates to the beginning of civilization, if not even before that. One interesting scholarly article on the topic which is archived at http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources/technology_changes_how_we_think.txt by Robin Wilson explores how the Gutenberg printing printing press causes an explosion of mathematical usage and development, and how a large part of that was developed by the standardization of mathematical symbols for universal communication and expression.
" Johann Gutenbergâ(TM)s invention of the printing press (around 1440) revolutionised mathematics, enabling classic mathematical works to be widely available for the first time. Previously, scholarly works, such as the classical texts of Euclid, Archimedes and Apollonius had been available only in manuscript form, but the printed versions made these works much more widely available.
At first the new books were printed in Latin or Greek for the scholar, and many scholarly editions appeared. The earliest printed version of Euclid's Elements, published in Venice in 1482, and there is an attractive 1492 edition of Ptolemy's Almagest. Apollonius's Conics appeared in 1537, and seven years later the works of Archimedes were published in both Latin and Greek, and there was a celebrated edition of Diophantus's Arithmetic in 1621, reissued in 1670, with the Greek text, a Latin translation by Bachet, and comments by Fermat, including his famous marginal comment on the 'last
Slashdot Mirror
>>Remember, politicians are only slightly smarter than the people who elected them.
not likely and what a weird thing to say.
>> So yeah, I rage a lot.
This can be treated with drugs, but until then, I suggest you stay off of social media.
What Linux needs is a good App Store. >
Shirly you Gest
That's a weird way to say "There aren't really that many developers or other technically skilled users who don't want systemd."
That is just the way to turn every linux distribution discussion into a systemd argument in the hopes to wear everyone out and to drive everyone away.
Nasty... reason enough to not want a systemd OS.
That's a weird way to say "There aren't really that many developers or other technically skilled users who don't want systemd."
And that is just half of it. Systemd breaks a lot of existing systems, and most importantly, its direction promises to waste ever more time breaking things that have been working smoothly for decades by using a completely new paradigm. That means that for older users, instead of being able to rely on established and well learned paradigms that took years to do a deep learning to master, and to move forward with more important and newer skills, that they have to double back and relearn the basics again, and for no good reason other than twisted egos of people 20 years younger.
For younger people what it means is that they will never learn what a truly open system that is well designed is like. Everything is now tied in and held close to the breast in one hog of a binary that only understands a top down approach to OS design. But hey, you never miss what you never had.
As for the post itself, it speaks plainly and doesn't need a malicious rewording. Like any other distro, they are less than a year old and working on building a community. It says nothing about how many developers or other technically skilled users who don't want systemd. How ever many that there are, and there are probably millions, as usually only a few have the time and financial independence to dedicate to writing an OS for free. ***So if you are interest, this is a great way to learn about package management and OS design, and here is a chance to get in while the ceiling is still low. If you are not interest... really who cares. Don't volunteer then. You are just a noise making troll pissed of to see someone else enjoying the party.***
The previous standard interactions with init, including the use of shell scripts in /etc/init.d, and the chkconfig and service commands still work. You don't actually need to learn anything new unless you want to take advantage of the new features that systemd offers.
So you might be able to see why your argument rings hollow.
That is not true on both fronts. The standard init stuff does not work with systemd. Not the login scripts, the X scripts, sound scripts, and more.
Secodnly, you do need to learn how systemd does weird stuff, unless you want a system where systemd allows any password to work with sudo - and other weird stuff that has leaked into the distros.
The distros that adopted systemd didn't just keep using the same init scripts. They adapted to it. In order to get around it, everything is affected from udev on up the food chain. The borad change in the distros since adaptation can not be avoided because of a smug comment on slashdot.
I'd volunteer to maintain the SystemD package and help them move to the future. >>
My future is watching my grandchildren play in the sand in the beach and continuing research on computational applications to biological and genetic problem....mostly using C++ and R.
It is not chasing Pottering garbage down a rabbit hole and wondering why X won't start up after 40 years of stability because systemd broke it.
systemd keeps services (including user login sessions, which it treats the same way) as a group of processes, which the previous systems did not. When I stopped a service under SysV init, it would terminate the "main" process, but if that process had started children, they might not receive that signal. Thus, SysV init might leave some resources used, and attempting to start the service later might fail. systemd can reliably terminate a service and all its descendant processes.>>
Systemd did not invent that, and it doesn't do it very well. Cascade affects like that usually screw users, like when you're database is turned off by a failed webserver, and then your LDAP, which also might depend on the database service doesn't work and you can't then log in.
Regardless, this kind of dependency was not invented by systemd, and is capable of being done by a variety of system, no of which also take over logins, counsels, and journals.
My favorite of course, is logind, which is totally broken in systemd.
>>It replaces SysV init.
No - it replaced all the core OS functionality. If it just replaced SysV there would have been some grumbling, but not all the outright hostility.
Like the intern who wrote the Linux kernel. I've heard dishonest critism like that for decades and it always comes from some deep seated basic misunderstanding of how the world work. Most init scripts are not written by interns, but those that are, that is OK as well.
It is better than trusting everything to a single development team .... one I am not particularly trustful of.
No, there were HowTos - tons of them Source code is never good documentation
I can't read on the comments any longer accept in chrome. I thought it might be noscript, evidently there is something more fundamentally wrong. I only see about 3 comments, and nothing else is coming down. It is now unusable,
That is going to mean a huge jump in toxic waste. Where are they going to put all those wasted batteries going into the next century?
who cares. They aren't the government and are trying to prevent protest using freely available resources. if you tried to protest against me I would do the same thing
Just let the taxes slice in half. Less taxes is better. Fck the socialists.
hard to use something if it isn't obvious and known. Tab Groups... looks cook but I hardly knew you. Its OK - I can still open up several windows with lots of tabs and use wmaker to swap around ... See, if they weren't targeting crippled windwos and apple boxes, it wouldn't have been needed.
The Guardian is not a rational newspaper. Front page News. Big international conference - 3 weeks after massive military attack be Islamic guerilla agents have killed hundred all through Paris. Police prevent demonstrations but allow grocery store shopping.
Maybe you are right, and Paris should close their economy down. The conference will be a joke anyway. It is just cover for China's increasing tide of industrial waste.
This started a long time ago with VitalBooks at NYU Dental School
This is Bullshit. You can't have a situation where trucks and drivers in sound vehicals become the objects of choice to hit on the road. Focus on missing objects and building study cars. It is the regulations for car construction that must adress the soundness of vehicals in a crash.
that is about right
I'm sick of being Tracked!!!
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being.
I feel so sorry for this younger generation. They are toast.
quite a few people of my generation still use them
The real question is if the crows are french or spanish.
Ruben
Sometimes the obvious just sits in front of your nose and you can't see it, even with a room full of PhD's. Mankind domesticated Sheep, Dogs, Cattle, Horses, pigs, and Chickens, all resulting in a diverse array of sub-types and phenotypes. Low and Behold, the very first species that we domesticates was Mankind itself...
Why do they think that Water Buffalo and Elephants can drink from Savana Mud and water holes, but humans would die in if they did so weeks...
Wow...mankind's evolution is influenced by mankind's culture and breeding selections. Big surprise but it is OBVIOUS. Even birds self select for color and such..
This was hotly discussed with the OLPC debates and I'll quote this:
In response to many of the questions regarding the changes in the
OLPC project, and specifically the decision to base the project at
this juncture to a Microsoft Operating System, proponents of this
change have come out swinging against Free Software developers who
have worked for the current Free Interface, code named Sugar. A
large segment of the critique of the against Free Software developers
like Bender is that they have put their "Open Source" agenda above the
welfare of the project. Others claim that the "Open Source" advocates
should be pleased with the what has already been done and that the
project as it stands can either be relaunched or has already met
goals.
The problem, though, is that in many ways, the marketing and financial
positioning of the OLPC program is harder to develop then the hardware
and software. And the goals that have been met are small in light of
the original mission of the OLPC project.
An operating system is more than a commodity. It becomes the looking
glass that develops how the user thinks and it literally shapes
the mind of it's users. A system which is at it's core designed to
disenfranchise users from the learning experience, especially in how
the user views the software itself through learned expectations, and
forces information access through monopolistic channels and filters,
undermines the development of critical thinking skills. In geek terms,
the operating system reprograms the end user. The Microsoft operating
system is designed to do so from the ground up. It is in fact the only
intended use of the Microsoft Windows Operating System franchise.
The interaction between technology on human and societal development
dates to the beginning of civilization, if not even before that.
One interesting scholarly article on the topic which is archived at
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources/technology_changes_how_we_think.txt
by Robin Wilson explores how the Gutenberg printing printing press causes
an explosion of mathematical usage and development, and how a large part
of that was developed by the standardization of mathematical symbols
for universal communication and expression.
" Johann Gutenbergâ(TM)s invention of the printing press (around 1440)
revolutionised mathematics, enabling classic mathematical works to be
widely available for the first time. Previously, scholarly works, such
as the classical texts of Euclid, Archimedes and Apollonius had been
available only in manuscript form, but the printed versions made these
works much more widely available.
At first the new books were printed in Latin or Greek for the scholar,
and many scholarly editions appeared. The earliest printed version
of Euclid's Elements, published in Venice in 1482, and there is an
attractive 1492 edition of Ptolemy's Almagest. Apollonius's Conics
appeared in 1537, and seven years later the works of Archimedes were
published in both Latin and Greek, and there was a celebrated edition
of Diophantus's Arithmetic in 1621, reissued in 1670, with the Greek
text, a Latin translation by Bachet, and comments by Fermat, including
his famous marginal comment on the 'last
This sucks because many people igore those devices since they are installed by the ISP.
I don't even think about them. I want them to do as little as possible.
Ruben