Slashdot Mirror
Police Departments Using Car Tracking Database Sworn To Secrecy
An anonymous reader writes "Vigilant Solutions maintains what they claim is the nation's largest database of license-plate tracking data, 'LEARN' (Law Enforcement Archival and Reporting Network). But when a law enforcement agency signs up to use the database, they are sworn to keep it secret. The reason? They are quite clear about that: 'to prohibit users from cooperating with any media outlet to bring attention to LEARN or LEARN-NVLS.' So, they're tracking you (they're tracking everybody)... but they don't want you to know. The agreement, uncovered by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, states: You shall not create, publish, distribute, or permit any written, electronically transmitted or other form of publicity material that makes reference to LEARN or this Agreement without first submitting the material to LEARN-NVLS and receiving written consent from LEARN-NVLS. This prohibition is specifically intended to prohibit users from cooperating with any media outlet to bring attention to LEARN or LEARN-NVLS. Breach this provision may result in LEARN-NVLS immediately termination of this Agreement upon notice to you."
Immediately after WIRED published the story, though, the agreement mysteriously changed. The secrecy provision is still there, but the statement that it's 'specifically intended' to prevent the media attention has vanished."
Immediately after WIRED published the story, though, the agreement mysteriously changed. The secrecy provision is still there, but the statement that it's 'specifically intended' to prevent the media attention has vanished."
They sign extensive NDA's and "must" deny any and all usage of stingray cell phone "dummy tower" interception devices also - why?
Probably because they have hidden legal ramifications that haven't been addressed. Why else?
The obvious answer is because it is probably illegal to track everyone everywhere, but as long as knowledge of this doesn't go to the court no one will know and therefore they cannot rule it illegal. That's sketchy.
I posted a story which did not get accepted about John Filippidis. A guy who had a concealed carry permit in Florida. He did own a gun, and left it at home when on a trip. Maryland police stopped him and detained him for a couple of hours for no reason.
This was made possible be datamining efforts and automatic license scanneres.
Very chilling.
Is that they don't actually respect the people they are supposed to respect (the people whom they supposedly work for). In conclusion, law enforcement doesn't work for you, even though you are forced to fund them.
Obviously our government wouldn't do crap like this if only we'd tax the rich more.
They need MORE MONEY!!!!
The elites are terrified. Absolutely terrified of the middle and lower classes.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Just another slimy company doing slimy things.
Did you think the high def cameras at intersections and over freeways were for one purpose only?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I drive on PUBLIC roads but I don't want people to know where I drive.
It's not that I don't want random people to be able to see me; it's that I don't want my own fucking government to install surveillance equipment everywhere (or hire others to do so) in an effort to automatically track my location. Stop equating the two, you dumb shits.
Some people really need to live in another country for a while to understand what REAL civil rights violations are like.
The mere fact that the situation could be worse does not mean that what's happening is not bad. What terrible logic.
What, you got punched in the face? That's not a bad thing, because starving people in Africa are much worse off!
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Vigilant Solutions warehouses the data themselves and then sells it back to the consumer (in this case the local Police). To avoid ACLU issues with the Police actually handling the data they prefer to use Vigilant. Vigilant also shares this data between these organizations - so much so that going with any other system becomes pointless for the local Police. In short - one corporation having access to the location and habits of much of the country and then controlling access to that data. Chilling indeed.
a prime target for "Anonymous"....
"specifically intended' to prevent the media attention has vanished"
Not on the internet it hasn't. Someone's PR department needs to learn how the internet works. They should go to Internet 101 class taught by adjust instructor, Barbara Streisand.
- - I drive on PUBLIC roads but I don't want people to know where I drive.
- It's not that I don't want random people to be able to see me; it's that I don't want my own fucking government to install surveillance equipment everywhere (or hire others to do so) in an effort to automatically track my location. Stop equating the two, you dumb shits.
Exactly- there's a difference between "you're in public, so people can see where you are" and "Let's build a tracking system that tracks EVERYBODY, ALL THE TIME, and keeps the records FOREVER."
Companies that collect data are realizing people are starting to become more aware of what is being collected and concerned about it. If enough people start making noise Congress may start to act and limit what can be collected and how it is used.
Here is an interesting thought for the real lawyers that read /. Could someone subpoena their data, if say they were charged with crime? Or as part of a civil suit? I would think not since they really aren't a part of the issue unless perhaps the cops used the data to locate someone or in an investigation, in which case this layman's view is the accused would have a right to see the data and challenge its use.
Of course, if the data became public imagine the havoc it could cause. Could you see the reaction from an elected official if a reporter showed up and asked them very detailed questions about their comings and goings?
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Please note, the cops probably _like_ the "restriction": When asked, it permits them to answer "It is illegal for us to comment", or to a judge "We cannot comment without violating our contractual agreements." People forget judicial privilige overrides contract.
As as posted by another, the use of the database could violate some data-protection law saying "access to this DB is restricted to ongoing official police investigations". Not to stalk GFs! So LAPD has to make the bogus claim that all drivers in LA are under investigation. Otherwise, their use of the tag readers tied to the tag owner DB would be illegal. And everything found thereafter excluded from evidence as "fruit of the poisoned vine". Not something they want to contemplate.
Immediately after WIRED published the story
. I didn't know WiRED was still in business.
Is it legal to hide your tag while on private property? What about privately owned, but publicly accessible property? I assume that it's legal to own a street-legal car even if it doesn't have tags, as long as its not driven on public streets. Therefore, I should be able to park my car in my driveway, hide the tag, and it would be perfectly legal. Can I do this in parking garages, or lots? If I park my car in the lot outside a shopping mall, and hide the tag, is that still legal? If it's legal, then what do you think is the likelihood that it will get towed?
Immediately after WIRED published the story, though, the agreement mysteriously changed. The secrecy provision is still there, but the statement that it's 'specifically intended' to prevent the media attention has vanished."
It doesn't much matter anymore, now does it? :)
As crazy as your statment is. The sad part is it is coming. This system will be here quicker than most will even noticed.
Can't wait until some enterprising Divorce lawyer uses this data to prove the husband is having an affair or a Criminal lawyer uses it to alibi his defendant.
All this data should be available for discovery if the Police have access to it an yes I realize that Divorce is civil.
If there is a warrant out for my arrest or a license plate is reported stolen, this system can identify it much faster than the old license plate over the radio. This seems to allow the police to stop and question people that they have a legit reason to do so, not just because you crossed the center line.
Of course, if the data became public imagine the havoc it could cause. Could you see the reaction from an elected official if a reporter showed up and asked them very detailed questions about their comings and goings?
Wont ever happen, they control the media too.
Systematic secrecy about even the existence of dragnet surveillance tools in use with regular police forces? Even if it wasn't news to anyone whatsoever, it deserves mention until the last one of them ceases to exist. Basically all of the (US) government is currently in a race to the bottom of ever newer lows, and they show no signs of slowing down. Rather the contrary. And what is an unaccountable police force, an unaccountable government to the people they're supposed to "serve and protect"? Well?
Problem is, what they learned is mass surveillance is OK, what's not OK is letting the sheeple know about it.
I'm sorry, but no Connecticut (US) municipal department can sign an agreement like that without being in violation of the Connecticut Freedom of Information Act. Any contract, documentation, or proposal involving a municipality is a public document.
Too bad, so sad.
They learned from the best, namely criminals. If nobody talks, everybody walks.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
I drive on PUBLIC roads but I don't want people to know where I drive.
It's not that I don't want random people to be able to see me; it's that I don't want my own fucking government to install surveillance equipment everywhere (or hire others to do so) in an effort to automatically track my location. Stop equating the two, you dumb shits.
On our dime, no less.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
"Let's build a tracking system that tracks EVERYBODY, ALL THE TIME, and keeps the records FOREVER."
And even that is better than, "and only certain people can look at the data, and certain people don't get tracked."
It just sets us up for abuse of power, and for marginal returns on public good.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
When you get a car you MUST get a license which the state keeps on file....when you get a car you MUST get a car license which the state keeps a record of name address you know the drill. So what is the problem? They have a data base of ALL car license ..big stink-in deal anyone can get the records they are public. When you get car insurance you must by state law give them your driver license,car serial number,Car License number.Whats the big stinkin deal??? but don't Get pissed off they are collecting cell phone calls, don't get pissed they collect emails from every living person in the USA . Get pissed they are wasting tax payer dollars to get a data base they ALREADY own......Priorities people Priorities.
Jack of all trades,master of none
I presume since this is slashdot, home of the libertarian and capitalist freedom thinkers, we're all okay with this.
This is a private company, not the government - so it should be totally okay. Since they're a corporation, the free market will decide if it's willing to keep them around. If nobody buys their stuff, they'll go out of business, and if you don't like what they do you can organize a boycott.
That's how the free market works, right?
Right?
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Time to start logging, tracking, and publishing all plates that enter police department property, with special focus on employee parking and any/all government plates.
We'll see how quickly they change from arguing that being in public means losing privacy.
I'm sure Vigilant Solutions will be happy to talk to you.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Don't like it then take a bus, walk or ride a bike.
A very temporary reprieve. Face recognition is getting better and HD cameras are getting cheaper. Within five years you'll risk being tagged every time you leave the house. Access to the cameras in malls and on sidewalks will be leased out and used to catch criminals^W^W track dissidents^W^W serve personalized ads.
In fact, road-side license plate cameras would be a great way to build a database of faces mapped to license plates.
If you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to hide...
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
As has been pointed out numerous times before, things are a bit different when automation allows you to start doing things in bulk that before you could only do on a small scale.
It's one thing for a police officer to check you tag as you drive by. It's a different kettle of fish when you have a tireless machine check every tag that passes by 24x365 and record the data so it can correlated with other electronic overseers all over town.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
There's this legal principal in the U.S. called "Sovereign Immunity" having its origins in the colonial (and earlier english) law. A citizen can't sue the king without his consent, the king here having become the government.
Suppose some P.D. did disclose the existence or the data from this database. Do you really think Vigilant Solutions is going to take them to court? Even if there was a statutory authorization permitting the P.D. to be sued, a secret corporation probably would not want their database to become publicized in a trial. Add to that that the judge probably wouldn't favor an out-of-state entity over the P.D. who keeps him safe in his bed at night. Good luck enforcing that "secret" contract provision...
Something smells funny here ... it kind of smells like "stupidity".
As with red light cameras/speeding cameras, car tracking data can be a source of income by state/local gov't. The Feds have restricted the sale of DMV data, so governments are looking for alternatives.
If you are concerned about protecting you privacy of movement, why not use public transportation? In many places it's cheaper and more convenient than owning a car provided it goes where you want to go, has a good connections and passes near-by your residence frequently. In my town, however, public transportation is very poor and and certainly in most rural areas and smaller towns is not available. On the other hand, with all these public cameras and facial recognition technology unless you wear a mask and wig, your whereabouts at a bus stop, subway station, cab or bus can be known.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
I presume since this is slashdot, home of the libertarian and capitalist freedom thinkers, we're all okay with this.
This is a private company, not the government - so it should be totally okay. Since they're a corporation, the free market will decide if it's willing to keep them around. If nobody buys their stuff, they'll go out of business, and if you don't like what they do you can organize a boycott.
That's how the free market works, right?
Right?
I suggest you look up and read about the definitions of these terms:
Capitalist.
Libertarian
Free Markets
And lastly "Crony Capitalism"
Because all of this (the article) is the work of anything but Libertarians.
Libertarians have a cow over state surveillance.
Free Markets? More like Crony Capitalism - the vendor knew someone and lobbied to have this done to boost their business. I seriously doubt bids went out for the lowest bid. Kind of like how the prison companies work - and they also are the ones lobbing to keep our draconian drug laws.
And all of this gets by because people are stupid enough to think that "if yo do nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about" and "this makes me feel safe".
We are not a free country.
...only a matter of time
Sorry for meta.
Slashdot is not effective for politics. Reddit is a better way to bring call-to-action responses to the top.
Seriously, in the last few months I have increasingly heard about the awesome work the EFF keeps doing. Where would be be today without them? They really could be one of the most important charities/non-profits out there right now. Please do support them in any way you can.
(note, I am not affiliated with the EFF)
"This restriction is specifically intended to protect the user’s interests in divulging information that may result in counter measures from the criminal elements, and this is also to protect Vigilant’s competitive interests and ensure consistency with other media messaging.”
Legalese speak for: please do not make loud noises or draw attention to us while we trample your rights as citizens for our own profits.
Off topic troll. What a moron.
MORON! He did not have a gun. It was in his wife's vagina, which he left at home on his bed. The wife was dead so she wash't talking. It was the guy that made this a story. He has no lower legs. Can't you read?
NT
Some people really need to live in another country for a while to understand what REAL civil rights violations are like.
The best way to get REAL civil rights violations, as you put it, is to passively accept the more minor ones. It's boiling the frog.
You are correct. Even the Police aren't allowed to use cellular transmitters or jammers by law, they are not licensed to legally transmit on those frequencies, and they are not legally allowed to intercept telephone conversations without a warrant. Not even for "the children".
Only the DOD (military) in the US can legally use such technology, but that isn't stopping the cops from doing whatever they want, including violating the US criminal code and defying the FCC. So naturally, they want to keep it on the down-low...
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
Imagine if this technology was available during the civil rights era. The Jim Crow laws would still be in place.
You FA1L it.
Some people really need to live in another country for a while to understand what REAL civil rights violations are like.
List of 'another countries' in which you have lived for a while is...
Let's try not to confuse GP.
GP, we're not upset about whether the information is considered private/public; or better phrased, "In the wild", because yes this is public data.
We're upset about the construction of a surveillance network, the manipulation/operation of the dragnet upon said ITW data.
Frankly, I think it's an easier idea to draw lines around than casinos who think mental card-counting can be distinguished from "I saw. I remember."
They sign extensive NDA's and "must" deny any and all usage of stingray cell phone "dummy tower" interception devices also - why?
Yep:
http://www.wired.com/2014/03/s...
http://www.wired.com/2014/03/h...
or, if you prefer your news from /., there's this
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/...
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
.... develop a display panel which ONLY emits IR (not visible light).
Mount such display panel adjacent to your license plate.
Connect display to computer which outputs randomly-generated license plate numbers, every half second.
Result: Scanners "see" hundreds of different plate ID's, among your own.
Data collection foiled.
No Laws Broken.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
In about a minute you can see they are clueless about security.
o The login page, http://learn-nvls.com/learn50/gui/index.aspx?ProviderType=AgencyProvider, requires non-ssl login
o If you examine the page code, 'change password' works by client side verification of the old password - which is delivered in a "hidden" html form field
I don't have time or reason to dig more. At this level of incompetence, little doubt all data can be had by script kiddy.
...System Shuts You Up.
My belly hurts from laughing.
SURE AS HELL they will forward that nice license plate data stream to something like the "Federal Counter-Terror Transportation Enforcement Security and Fusing Center" which is located in FtMeade, Maryland. And those guys are above the law when it comes to "data protection". They will invoke the Absolute King Sesame "National Security, fuck off, SUBJECT !"
They will "fuse" all the license plate data with ANY other bits of data they already have: mobile phone data streams, auto rent data streams (sure as hell they get it real-time these days), flight ticket data streams, YOU NAME IT.
..coming to an internet close to you. Search, locate, stalk and track everybody through the billions of Google-supplied optical sensors. They will offer security camera vendors and car makers "free" cameras plus "free telecom" plans. And every car will have 29 cameras "for safety and (national) security".
And because Google has top-dollar and can bribe 100% of Washington, you simply will suffer it. Plus, it has the National Security(TM) brand stamped on it, so you have to suffer it by default.
I'm sick of being Tracked!!!
Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being.
I feel so sorry for this younger generation. They are toast.
http://www.mrbrklyn.com/amsterdam.html http://www.brooklyn-living.com
Playboy learned this lesson in the 70's and 80's. Never publish a Playmate leaning on a car with a visible license plate. The Law Enforcement Teletype System was abused horribly by police all over the country running that license plate when the new issue came out. Apparently there were bragging rights on having potential inside info on a half naked woman. The relevant agency would have to send out a plea for them to stop because they didn't have the resources to deal with all the incoming requests. Police at the time were bound by similar rules on NOT running license plates without probable cause.
This is not an issue in New Hampshire, supposedly the only state where license-plate tracking is illegal.
*If* that is true -- and I'm seeing conflicting information as to whether or not it is -- expect FL to close that loophole to prevent fascist states like MD from targeting FL motorists on interstate highways. FL probably permits database access to allow for CCW reciprocity checks in other Shall-Issue states, and its legislators definitely won't allow abuse of its data by rogue police units like MDTAP.
If only that were true.
Used to live in Florida, not any more, its gone crazy conservative Republican / Tea Party leaning with legislation and thinking. Creating a fake crisis and giving public contracts created from the uproar, to their own businesses for personal gain for example (Gov's wife owned his testing company on paper.). As such, Business interests take priority over privacy and they will *not* close that loophole as the lobbying for the businesses that feed the those political coffers will prevent it.
Wishful thinking on your part, but alas, far from reality given the current political climate in Florida.
Full Disclosure, I am no Democrat, they abuse the system also, just at a lesser degree than Republicans and Tea Party candidates who always abuse the system for their donors benefit. Thanks to Citizens United vs FEC and their prevention of judges getting seated (at all levels, esp Federal Courts that feed into the Supreme Court), they intend for their style of cronie-ism to continue for the foreseeable future. They want only a Republican to appoint judges.
The Tea Party was 100% co-opted by the Koch brothers and their ilk within a month of its inception, in the beginning it was idealist and good, just quickly and easily corrupted... the news reports are there to prove it to anyone willing to look, many don't want to, they have ulterior motives. The Citizens United vs FEC court decision opened the flood gates for massive amounts of money to flood each and every election in the USA, as such most elections are controlled by those with the most money, not the best ideas anymore...thus the loophole is well funded politically.
While there are many examples, one that readily comes to mind by its frequency in the news over the last few days are the tax cutting in Kansas and now Missouri. While Missouri's will not take effect for two years, obfuscating the true cause of the problem when it occurs in 2016, in Kansas, the promised new revenue from economic development did not materialize and they are running a deficit (tax revenue) of over $580M ($480M + 92M was reported on TV news...msnbc I believe, I watch CNN and Fox some too, but I believe that number came from MSNBC) up to $1.3B per this article (Kansas is on track for a nearly 1.3B tax shortfall this year, and in April we endured an unprecedented income drop of over 45%. That's right. The state economy lost 45% of its tax income.). Because of the deficit the Conservative state government (100% Rep controlled) did not fund the school system effectively. In fact it was so poorly funded that judges had to step in and order the state legislature to fund the schools. (this is still playing out and will be interesting to see what the Republicans say to the courts)
In Missouri, the Gov either has or will veto the legislation, forcing them to over-ride his veto and take full responsibility for the tax cutting legislation that will hurt Missouri...Gov points to Kansas deficit as reason for his veto (Article: MO Gov. Jay Nixon points to Kansas, Shuts down Legislative Republicans) If you watch the embedded video, toward the
Vigilant Solutions was recently made aware of some outdated and misleading information in the media regarding the Vigilant Solutions Terms and Conditions document previously posted on our LEARN website. LEARN is a cloud-based analytic solution for license plate reader (LPR) data, and is also the primary tool by which law enforcement accesses our national LPR database.
Vigilant would like to provide you with the facts on this issue as televised last Friday: (http://youtu.be/j5IYs5wXlbU).
They changed the wording of their T&C today, but then represented that the original T&C's were "outdated and no longer exists on our website". This is a misrepresentation of the truth. They changed the wording based on this media event to save-face, and then are telling us that it was outdated and no longer exists! It is awful that companies like this exist and are in such close partnership with police and law authorities. Their business practices and methods should be investigated to say the least. Their official announcement made today on their website is below:
The document referenced was outdated and no longer exists on our website.
Our current policy, as referenced in current documentation on our website, is not intended to minimize any media interaction, but rather advise agencies that they should be careful in what they choose to disclose as this information may provide an impetus for counter measures to be employed by the criminal elements.
Vigilant Solutions engages with the media on an almost daily basis, and certainly welcomes media coverage.
Vigilant Solutions encourages its customers to share success stories with the media, properly channeled through their PIO for review, to help educate the public on the benefits that LPR is delivering to the community.
Vigilant’s products protect officers, families and communities. The data stored by Vigilant Solutions contains no personal information, and an existing Federal Law known as the Driver’s Privacy Protection Act (DPPA) prevents the connection of personal information to a license plate number except under a defined set of circumstances. Vigilant voluntarily helps ensure compliance with DPPA as well as relevant state laws and agency policies via agency management controls, strict user permissions, complete auditing and reporting features of our products.
Are they biological drones?
Police seem to use whatever technique and technology they can, without respect to legality until it is clear that the penalties outweigh...what, the benefit? The potential benefits? The coolness factors?
Pretty sure we will not know in my lifetime. But, BTW, is it legal to eat them geese? Hrm??
I agree for the most part with the statements, sentiments and use of quoted material above, but
feel compelled to mention that 'facts' are never 'mere', as in "mere fact". Facts are and will remain
facts until the end of time, assuming they were in fact facts to begin with. Why is that important?
The fact remains that using expressions without enough thought to what is said is as bad as
enforcing laws that do not exist or breaking laws in the name of law enforcement and public
safety. That is what we began discussing, no? Ok, online forum rules apply: rip it up!!