Ever tried coming to a local branch and withdrawing more than 5K? In Canada, where I am they will tell you that they don't have that much and that you have to call them in advance next time. So much for it being "your money". The truth is those rules are not made for your protection. The protect the bank from (a) robberies, (b) bank runs.
How does making an appointment stop it from being your money?
Your access to your money is limited. If you need to have them urgently - you just can't. You don't have full control.
No, your access to paper money is limited because it's a physical thing. You can do a wire transfer or write a cheque.
Don't be obtuse.
You own a car, the guy who manages the parking garage in your building tells you that you'll have to call three days in advance if you want to drive the car you bought and paid for. Would you be pissed off? I would, and I can understand where he is coming from if somebody tells him that he has to call in days in advance to withdraw his own money as if they have to fell the trees, make the paper and print the bills first. Years and years ago when I lived in Germany I went through several banks before I found an organisation providing banking services that (a) had a decent online presence and (b) didn't take a 7-8 days to cash a cheque or transfer money between accounts. I ended up banking at the post office simply because of their no-nonsense attitude, the post offices were open on Saturdays and the fact that they did not have these massive latency times. I have no patience for banking institutions that work at geological speeds.
Seriously, this is funny. MS and Google pretend to care about human rights here, but then in China, they will happily help Chinese gov murder their own.../quote>
How, where and when?
However, to refute your statement that you have never seen a multi-front war on science from the left is disingenuous. There have been/. articles about that very topic. Perhaps your definition of science and mine differ. To me the scientific process, peer review, the challenges that arise from your conclusion, are all science. Without that, its not science, its simply statements. There was a time, and in some parts it still exists, a broad left-wing cultural belief that it is OK to use money, power, and influence to push one scientific viewpoint over another. I am speaking of climate debate....
Climatology was a soft science to begin with because there were too many moving parts that people barely understood in isolation let alone as part of a giant ecosystem. It stopped being science entirely when people who are not scientists turned it into a completely political type debate and the scientists, who also have lives outside of science and have their own political views, allowed it to happen. They themselves now sponsor censorship of any disagreement. What happens when the same behavior starts happening to other forms of science? We opened the door and justified it this one time as being OK. Thats called precedence and the impact is often damning. What happens if Nutrition follows this example and starts banning anything that suggests low-carb is the way to go? I mean how often does nutrition have to go back to the drawing board and start all over? Do you know how many times Eggs have been on both sides of the good/bad debate in my lifetime? I've lost count now. Eggs aren't 'settled science' and they are frigging EGGS! Not something as complex with as many moving parts as how the climate equilibrium equation might shift by altering just one of many of its variables. Its imperative to continue the critisims, its the only way to keep going back and getting it right. And STOP altering the goddamn records. That makes it impossible to come to a clearer understanding later on.
We are adding about 120 ppm of greenhouse gasses per degree the temperature rises and that is not accounting for feedback loops. We know for a fact what happened the last time the amount of greenhouse gasses in the air reached 2000 ppm, it's called the Great Permian Extinction and it killed off 96% of all life in the oceans and every terrestrial life form over 5 kg. If we get a rise of 4 degrees over pre industrial levels we get ~800 ppm of green house gases, if the worst case of 8 degrees over the pre industrial levels happens we'll get greenhouse gas levels of around 1200 ppm and we're still not accounting for feedback loops. I don't need intricate climate models to know that is bad and it is pretty clear to any thinking person that continuing carbon de-sequestration with wild abandon is not going to end well, it may not be Permian Extinction bad but it won't be very nice. As for the war on Science, I have seen left wingers get their panties in a knot over some professor or guest speaker, and I have seen right wingers do that too. However, I have never seen anybody but the right wing go to full scale war with entire disciplines of science because their donors didn't like what the scientists had to say. The right wing has gone so far as to defund research, forbid the use of the word 'climate change' and are practically persecuting climate scientists. Then there is the whole war on evolution bullshit which I'm not even going to get into. I have never seen a modern mainstream left-wing movement do anything like that, scream at professors or speakers they didn't agree with, yes, but never try to muzzle an several entire branches of science because what those scientists had to say didn't agree with the dogma of their religion or were harmful to the profit margins of their political donors. And for the record, apart from AOC, Bernie and a few others I do not consider the American Democrats to be 'left-wing'. In my world they are at best moderate right wing, basically what the Republicans used to be before they went nuts.
Oh look, I can provide references. You're still talking shit. Now fuck off.
Well if you are using your arse to do your research small wonder you can't get your facts right. China contains way more people than the US and the US has for-profit schools so I'm not exactly surprised that the Chinese get more quality graduates out of each dollar they spend. And, no, I am disinclined to acquiesce to our request that I sexual intercourse off you arrogant arse buggering bloody cunt of a toilet-mouthed muppet (that was just for you since you don't seem to understand sentences that do not contain obscenities).
I'm pretty sure the term 'intellectual elite' has nothing to do with education or a condemnation of education. I hope you haven't somehow derived that people at trump rallys are anti-education. The term implies something entirely different. Elitism is a new way to saying looking down your nose at someone (I used to hear that expression a lot as a child, I rarely hear it now). The expression draws the image of someone with their nose up in the air because they are too good to be associating with the likes of you. It dates back to aristocracy. There are many ways someone can think they are better than you
1) race - some people think they belong to a superior race and that trait makes them better than others
2) money - nothing divides the world into clasism or caste based society more so than money. Merely having money causes those who came by it without working for it to often acquire a sense of superiority. The paid staff that wait on your every beckon call feeds this and amplifies it.
3) religion - the belief in whether you burn in hell or not has caused many to feel that they are superior because they are among those that are 'right' and will be vindicated when those that picked 'wrong' are unmercifully punished for it.
4) Intelligence - people can begin to act like a complete douche when they think they are significantly smarter than some other person or group.
Intellectual Elite actually implies someone THINKS they are so much better than everyone else because they THINK they are so much smarter. They arent ACTUALLY smarter, the merely assume they are. Because anyone who does not agree with 100% of everything they say MUST be less intelligent and therefore not worthy to vote because they are just too stupid to have that right/responsibility. Its not a condemnation of education. Its a condemnation of Elitism. The reality is that most of the people that fall into this critisism are actually NOT overly intellectual in nature. For the most part they actually do not do independent thought very well at all. They rely heavily on GroupThink and will tow the GroupThink line on every topic despite how poor their understanding of it actually is. Nothing could exemplify how dangerous GroupThink is better than those youtube videos where some guy goes around campus and interviews students. They will take some hot political topic and then read some quotes and claim Trump said them. Then these Intellectual Elite get on their soap box and talk about how bad trump is for saying that etc etc. Then the interviewer lets them know that those were actually statements by hillary, or barack, etc. Until that moment they were SURE... so SURE they were right and they were so much smarter than everyone else. Its elitism and thats what that derogatory term actually means. Its not intelligence if all you can do is parrot someone else's opinion. Anyone can memorize an encyclopedia. Pascals Law: A pressure applied to the surface of an enclosed fluid at rest, will be transmitted equally, and undiminished, throughout the fluid and to the walls of its container. I had to memorize that in nuclear power school. But until you actually understand it, and understand it so well you see it in everything fluid-dynamics, it is just words. Reciting them did not make me intellectual, it merely got me an A.
The term 'intellectual elite' only has nothing to do with education or a condemnation of education at a Trump rally. Everywhere else the word intellectual describes an intelligent, learned person who engages in critical thinking, research, and reflection about society, proposes solutions for its normative problems and gains authority as a public figure. Somebody who values quantifiable facts over emotionally triggered knee-jerk reactions. Whatever they think, when Trump supporters start agitating against evolution, claim climate change is a hoax and talk about doing 'something' about the 'intellectual elite' it conjures up Trump's quote about '2nd amendment people' doing something about Hillary
so your case that defunding education has no effect
I'm arguing against your unhinged foaming about stock buybacks and politics you disagree with. I've made no comments about defunding education.
But since you do want to go there: The US spend more per child on education than any other country on the planet.
Total US spending on education is down a little from its peak but so were birth rates 15 years ago. I'll help you out here: Fewer children means less total cost.
Actually the US is behind Luxembourg in that comparison so you are wrong. Also, spending per student varies wildly by state in the US so depending on where you are you get either good or completely shitty education. If you are in New York and ruled by a bunch of hippies socialists you get a pretty good education, if you are in Kansas and ruled by a bunch of Republicans you get a shitty education because they de-funded the school system. Amazingly Kansas isn't even at the bottom of the list of states that spend the least per child and where you subsequently get the crappiest education. The picture of per-child education in the US is massively skewed by a few very populous (usually Democratic governed) states that provide excellent education, many more (usually Republican governed) states provide quite shitty education. Not that the degree of per-child funding of schools is the only metric for education quality but in view of the degree to which many red states have de-funded education it must be having a major effect.
The lesson here is that if you want to be a player in the automated economy you better have a well educated workforce.
The IT industry (which is the one we're discussing here) is the educated workforce that's actually responsible for much of the last couple of decades of automation.
While IT isn't immune from automation nobody working in the industry for the last couple of decades has failed to observe the constant outsourcing and offshoring of jobs, roles and entire departments.
I didn't move out of programming roles because I was worried about automation. I did move out of programming roles because I could do other interesting work that was at far less risk of being undercut by an Indian body shop.
And part of this story is that China has enough IT workers but the west does. This is because many US states in particular de-funded their education system. If you want to replace cleaning ladies with a bunch of robots you are going to have to give the job of running those robots to somebody. That person is going to have to have a higher level of education than a cleaning lady does today. De-funding your schools and stultifying the masses is not likely to produce workers with the level of education needed to run and repair a bunch of automated assets.
while you sit on your hands and assume
You keep making assumptions about me and my own assumptions. You keep accusing me of specific views towards the Chinese. Stop it. You're wrong. You're a fucking idiot. Stop projecting your own inadequacies onto others.
No I won't stop contradicting you and I'm not an idiot, I'm just unwilling to fall to my knees and kowtow to you like some god of truth... and you are still the same old potty mouth.
And you still sound like somebody who thinks that inserting some form of the word 'fuck' into every sentence makes their argument stronger.
You sound like the sort of cunt that thinks using word A instead of word B is material to the argument they're making. I use the term 'fuck' a lot, along with 'bugger', 'arse', 'bloody' and 'cunt'. At least my other words make fucking sense.
So I am incapable of accessing both nations and you are because..... no proof?
If I have to bet who will win, a bunch of UK Tory and DUP parliamentarians trying to prevent teenagers from getting porn or a bunch of teenagers determined to get their hand so porn, my money is on the kids.
@Freischutz, I'm pretty sure the populists in your country have little in common with conservatives in the US, connecting the two is a non-sequitur. Don't make that mistake like so many of the ignorant, angry masses.
In the US, conservatives generally support school choice programs to allow children to get out of underperforming schools, charter schools which bring STEM education to underserved urban populations, and accountability for teachers and curricula that underperform.
Liberals, on the other hand, support whatever teachers' unions deem to be in their best interests; want to insert Art studies into the STEM- further siphoning away resources from a curriculum that would give us top-shelf coders, engineers, and scientists; and support teaching revisionist history so as not to offend or make any ethnic group uncomfortable.
Can you imagine if, say in Europe, they decided to never cover Napoleon, Hitler or Stalin in school because it made people "uncomfortable"? How long would it be before the world made those mistakes again?
How many more hours per week should each student put into social pseudo-science classes, knowing they will come at the expense of math, science and technology since unions will not allow for the expansion of the school day or year?
How do we force underperforming educators out of critical roles to give new, better-equipped STEM teachers a proper role and a livable wage when union-backed tenure arrangements prohibit chronic underperformers from being fired?
Thanks for playing, please do come back again sometime.
I think there is a bit of semantic hijacking that has gone on here. Conservatives used to mean rational people who believed climate change is happening and that spending money on education, that providing people with health insurance is a good thing and that going to war with science over evolution was akin to being a flat-earther. At some point the word 'conservative' got hijacked in the US by a bunch of far right lunatics. I draw no parallels between the people calling themselves 'conservative' in the US and those doing so elsewhere. It seems to me American conservatives should find a new word for their social philosophy because 'conservative' has become synonymous with something else. The thing is that what passes for 'conservative' in Europe is called 'extreme far-left terrorism' in the US. Much of what passes for 'conservative' in the US is called 'fascism' in Europe, even by European conservatives.
> Say the right wing is anti-education
> Gets examples of the right wing not being anti-education
"Well of course those specific guys aren't!!! But everyone else is!!! I'm not wrong! I'm not wrong!"
Are you really unable to understand the concept of hypocrisy?... As in: some right-wingnut spends money to get their idiot kids into a university and then goes to a Trump rally and rages against the educated. That's hypocrisy. Let me help you educate yourself on hypocrisy: https://www.google.com/search?...
Not good enough, now go to the 1st reformed church of the AR-15 and repeat that sentence.
1 - automation creates jobs as well as replacing them
Yes, but those jobs also require a higher level of worker education so your case that defunding education has no effect has now acquired yet another dent.
2 - outsourcing to low cost countries has replaced jobs irrespective of automation
Quoting the financial Times (yuk, I feel dirty): https://www.ft.com/content/dec...The US did indeed lose about 5.6m manufacturing jobs between 2000 and 2010. But according to a study by the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University, 85 per cent of these jobs losses are actually attributable to technological change — largely automation — rather than international trade.
The lesson here is that if you want to be a player in the automated economy you better have a well educated workforce.
3 - teachers are among the highest paid earners in the US
That depends entirely upon where you are and how seriously your state takes education: https://www.forbes.com/sites/n...... also, the teacher's complaint is not just pay most of it is actually a total lack of resources and funding to do their job properly. Because their state leadership (usually Republican) has decided to experiment with small government.
4 - the Chinese are less than 20 years of reform away from another revolution
They have managed to create a telecommunications industry that owns 1500 standards essential 5G patents and four of the leading smartphone manufacturers in those 20 years. I look forward to seeing what they'll accomplish in the next 20 years while you sit on your hands and assume they'll never have the temerity to threaten America's technological lead.
5 - I've already told you I'm not underestimating anybody, but frankly China isn't my opponent. I'm not a nation state
You do a good job of sounding like you are determined to underestimate the Chinese.
PS - 7 - I don't use the term f**ing, I use the terms fuck and fucking. You may not like them but that's your fucking choice, stop trying to impose it on me
And you still sound like somebody who thinks that inserting some form of the word 'fuck' into every sentence makes their argument stronger.
PS - 8 - I don't have a toilet for a mouth.
Yes you do.
PS - 9 - I'm not fucking American. I'm also not Chinese and I'm also capable of objectively assessing both nations. You clearly are not.
So I am incapable of accessing both nations and you are because..... no proof?
You are delusional if you think this is a right wing problem. The vast majority of the kids I see going to private schools come from right wing families. I’m not even talking about super rich elite private schools. I am sure that they could find better ways to spend that $15,000 per year on tuition if they thought they had a choice. They are doing it so that their children have a decent shot at succeeding later in life. Three of the four largest and most successful private schools in my city (not even tier 3 in size) are religious in some sort of charter. Lexington Catholic, Lexington Christian Academy, Christ the King, etc. their academic program is far from substandard. They have the highest percentage of high school graduates qualifying for and in rolling into college.
So I do not think they are anti-education. Some do not like the anti-religious aspect of school, but a vast majority are doing it because of the substandard education that’s being offered up in public school that’s now deemed “good enough“. My daughter goes to public school. She’s finishing up her sophomore year. For the last four years I have been telling her that her writing skills are shit. I am constantly complaining about the quality of homework she hands him. Sometime she answers questions and doesn’t even use a complete sentence. Of course, she would argue back that the teacher said she doesn’t have to. Thinking I’m being lied to I reach out and ask the teachers. Guess what? She didn’t fucking have to! I am far from religious, but I’m starting to develop an anti-public education attitude based on these shitty reduced standards. In the early 80s, when I was in junior high, they didn’t call it middle school back then, you are not allowed to turn in any work that did not contain complete sentences. I do believe that the damn Scan-tron Machines that instantly graded those fill in the circle multiple choice test were the beginning of the stupidity. Sure it made it easy for the teachers, but recognizing the correct answer when told is not the same thing is actually knowing the correct answer.
The right-wing elite is not completely anti-education, they just encourage it in their political followers. It is the right-wing that energetically courts the evangelical movement that agitates against provable scientific facts like evolution. I have never seen a modern mainstream left wing movement in the US or EU declare a multi front war on science. The most impressive thing that the right wing has accomplished in the last 30 years is to convince about a third of America's working poor that their best friends looking out for the interests of the working poor are a bunch of trust fund babies who shit into golden toilets. They go to Trump rallies, give speeches about how you should hate and scorn the 'intellectual elite'... "We golden toilet shitting billionaires who pay no taxes aren't the Elite!!! the college professors are the elite and must be destroyed!!!.... then they turn around and spend $2.5 million to get their idiot son (Jared Kushner in this example) into a university. It is a quite interesting hypocrisy but for some reason they feel they'll benefit from turning the broad masses of the poor into a bunch of illiterates by defunding education. Ill give the Chinese quite a lot of credit for spending large amounts of money to do the opposite.
They have an adequate supply of qualified developers and engineers, the EU and US in particular don't
That's got fuck all to do with investment in education and far more to do with Europe and the US outsourcing much of their IT to low cost locations.
Like China.
Underestimating your opponent is the mother of all defeats.
Being pragmatic and realistic about China's position in the world doesn't require underestimating them. It's actually possible to acknowledge their progress without attacking the education system in other countries.
You should try it.
PS: There's nowt wrong w' fucking
Automation has killed way more jobs than outsourcing has. In a world where automation is everywhere you need a high level of education in your workforce. The cleaning lady of the future is probably going to be a women running a fleet of cleaning robots with an tablet computer. You don't get there with a workforce trained in schools where the teachers are massively underpaid and there isn't even enough money to buy textbooks or put doors on the toilets. People were 'pragmatic' and 'realistic' about China (read: sat on their laurels confident in their god given right to be a tech leader) 20 years ago, now China is a threat. Give the Chinese another 20 years of reform and a sensible education policy and they'll surpass the US on every level. You can choose to underestimate your opponent but don't get to complain when your idleness bites you in the butt.
P.S. I don't really think you Americans fully understand just how asinine you sound to other people with your f**ing this, and f**ing that but there is a way you can find out. Try saying "Jesus' butt-plug" instead of 'fuck' for a few days. You will soon learn the virtues of not having a toilet for a mouth.
Oh please. China has a higher population than North America and Europe combined.
When you're looking for cheap programmers it's hardly a fucking surprise that you'll find some there.
...
Nor has China destroyed their education system by replacing achievement with "progressive" intersectional indoctrination.
Next time you see jobs you could do go to China, remember to place a lot of the blame on those "progressive" Feelz Studies Departments that replaced useful degree fields and destroyed the value of your education.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I blame for profit schools, the expense of education, truing student loans into a debt slavery scheme and a right wing political culture that glorifies ignorance.
Oh please. China has a higher population than North America and Europe combined.
When you're looking for cheap programmers it's hardly a fucking surprise that you'll find some there.
Chinese put tons of money into universities and incentives for young people to go there
..and yet despite the higher population China has less than 4/5 the number of students at university that America and the EU have, even without counting the rest of North America and Europe.
Is anybody surprised that their method worked better than the asinine political circus we are currently obsessing over at the expense of everything else except tax breaks for the fabulously rich?
Yes, I'm completely fucking amazed you claim their method worked better.
They have an adequate supply of qualified developers and engineers, the EU and US in particular don't. That speaks louder than any words and has so far resulted in Huawei managing to research their way to owning 1529 "standard-essential" 5G patents, the most of any company, and Xiaomi, Huawei, Oppo, and VIVO lead the list after Samsung and Apple on the list over the biggest smartphone manufacturers. Underestimating your opponent is the mother of all defeats.
P.S. Inserting a colloquial term for sexual intercourse into your sentences does nothing to make your argument more convincing.
As official Mar a Lago security, I'd like to see if you have any thumb drives I can please plug into official Secret Service biznezz, ya? The codeword is Drumpftards.
Aren't you way too busy chasing Chinese grannies and tossing the Donalds' golf balls out of sand pits?
It sounds like a grade of cheese to me. Between cottage and cottagest.
That is because cottage cheese is literally what it says on the tin. Cottage cheese is cheese curds and whey. It was eaten by poor people for the most part. In really hard times they'd strain out the whey, dissolve bones in the whey and eat it like a soup. I tasted that dish once and never felt any desire to do so again.
The whole entire anti-education agenda of these right wing populists just pisses me off. My great great grandfather was a serf, a cottager. He made sure his son got educated as a carpenter. My great grandfather decided that the way to an even better life was to educate his sons and daughters so he taught them to read by himself. My grandfather became a sailor, his sisters all got good positions that allowed them to live a better life. My grandparents also educated all of their kids to the best of their financial ability. That is why I could go to University and get a CS degree. I recommend people watch the below clip because this is where we have ended up:
This is not just an American story, it's just worse there than it is in many other places. Every singe one of those people are going somewhere else to work where they'll be better paid and have an actual budget to get their job done. If you can move to China and get paid 3 times a US teacher's wage teaching Chinese high school students English in preparation for their university studies and a career as a highly skilled worker something is seriously wrong. Meanwhile the US is still busy arguing over asinine crap like whether the 'Kansas experiment', where they completely de-funded all of their schools in a quest for small government, was actually a good idea that was not given long enough to work out. Just watching that debate you begin to understand what the problem is. Being uneducated is nothing to be ashamed of, it is something you should strive to fix, not celebrate.
" thanks to the prevalence of qualified programmers which carmakers are struggling to hire elsewhere" is the key phrase.
This shortage is thanks to a long sequence of governments in the US and Europe who have put in tireless work over several decades to disassemble their education systems and stultify their populations so that they'll cheer when the money previously spent on educating them is spent to tax breaks to finance stock buybacks and CEO bonuses. You get what you vote for, especially if you allow yourself to be distracted from what really matters by non issues like immigrant caravans/flotillas supposedly coming to destroy your christian conservative civilisation. Meanwhile the Chinese put tons of money into universities and incentives for young people to go there. Is anybody surprised that their method worked better than the asinine political circus we are currently obsessing over at the expense of everything else except tax breaks for the fabulously rich?
Most of Africa has banned plastic bags. (4 years jail in Kenya!)
The USA? What plastics has the USA banned?
The conservatives in the USA are still waiting for the ROW to do something about the problem before they will consent to consider doing anything themselves. You cannot just ask the wealthiest nation on earth to lead by example now can you? That would be.... Bwaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!! UNFAIR!!!....to quote their current president.
I believe one Thomas A Edison might like to have a word with you regarding successful music players...
Yeah, and there is a copper age carpenter who invented the wheel who'd like to have a few words with Elon Musk about how Tesla is ripping off his invention instead of innovating... We can take this game all the way back to the first digging stick and the first hand-axe.
Slashdot Mirror
Ever tried coming to a local branch and withdrawing more than 5K? In Canada, where I am they will tell you that they don't have that much and that you have to call them in advance next time. So much for it being "your money". The truth is those rules are not made for your protection. The protect the bank from (a) robberies, (b) bank runs.
How does making an appointment stop it from being your money?
Your access to your money is limited. If you need to have them urgently - you just can't. You don't have full control.
No, your access to paper money is limited because it's a physical thing. You can do a wire transfer or write a cheque.
Don't be obtuse.
You own a car, the guy who manages the parking garage in your building tells you that you'll have to call three days in advance if you want to drive the car you bought and paid for. Would you be pissed off? I would, and I can understand where he is coming from if somebody tells him that he has to call in days in advance to withdraw his own money as if they have to fell the trees, make the paper and print the bills first. Years and years ago when I lived in Germany I went through several banks before I found an organisation providing banking services that (a) had a decent online presence and (b) didn't take a 7-8 days to cash a cheque or transfer money between accounts. I ended up banking at the post office simply because of their no-nonsense attitude, the post offices were open on Saturdays and the fact that they did not have these massive latency times. I have no patience for banking institutions that work at geological speeds.
And why a book?.
No reason really, I'm no enemy of alternative data storage methods. Feel free to bring a papyrus scroll or a set of clay tablets if they let you.
Seriously, this is funny. MS and Google pretend to care about human rights here, but then in China, they will happily help Chinese gov murder their own.../quote> How, where and when?
o I'm not exactly surprised that the Chinese get more quality graduates out of each dollar they spend
Ok, I'm out. That's just blatant trolling.
Ditto and you are a rather poor troll, probably because you do lots for research with your arse.
I am disinclined to acquiesce to our request
Here's how many fucks I give: 0
Poor you, I get laid all the time.
However, to refute your statement that you have never seen a multi-front war on science from the left is disingenuous. There have been /. articles about that very topic. Perhaps your definition of science and mine differ. To me the scientific process, peer review, the challenges that arise from your conclusion, are all science. Without that, its not science, its simply statements. There was a time, and in some parts it still exists, a broad left-wing cultural belief that it is OK to use money, power, and influence to push one scientific viewpoint over another. I am speaking of climate debate....
Climatology was a soft science to begin with because there were too many moving parts that people barely understood in isolation let alone as part of a giant ecosystem. It stopped being science entirely when people who are not scientists turned it into a completely political type debate and the scientists, who also have lives outside of science and have their own political views, allowed it to happen. They themselves now sponsor censorship of any disagreement. What happens when the same behavior starts happening to other forms of science? We opened the door and justified it this one time as being OK. Thats called precedence and the impact is often damning. What happens if Nutrition follows this example and starts banning anything that suggests low-carb is the way to go? I mean how often does nutrition have to go back to the drawing board and start all over? Do you know how many times Eggs have been on both sides of the good/bad debate in my lifetime? I've lost count now. Eggs aren't 'settled science' and they are frigging EGGS! Not something as complex with as many moving parts as how the climate equilibrium equation might shift by altering just one of many of its variables. Its imperative to continue the critisims, its the only way to keep going back and getting it right. And STOP altering the goddamn records. That makes it impossible to come to a clearer understanding later on.
We are adding about 120 ppm of greenhouse gasses per degree the temperature rises and that is not accounting for feedback loops. We know for a fact what happened the last time the amount of greenhouse gasses in the air reached 2000 ppm, it's called the Great Permian Extinction and it killed off 96% of all life in the oceans and every terrestrial life form over 5 kg. If we get a rise of 4 degrees over pre industrial levels we get ~800 ppm of green house gases, if the worst case of 8 degrees over the pre industrial levels happens we'll get greenhouse gas levels of around 1200 ppm and we're still not accounting for feedback loops. I don't need intricate climate models to know that is bad and it is pretty clear to any thinking person that continuing carbon de-sequestration with wild abandon is not going to end well, it may not be Permian Extinction bad but it won't be very nice. As for the war on Science, I have seen left wingers get their panties in a knot over some professor or guest speaker, and I have seen right wingers do that too. However, I have never seen anybody but the right wing go to full scale war with entire disciplines of science because their donors didn't like what the scientists had to say. The right wing has gone so far as to defund research, forbid the use of the word 'climate change' and are practically persecuting climate scientists. Then there is the whole war on evolution bullshit which I'm not even going to get into. I have never seen a modern mainstream left-wing movement do anything like that, scream at professors or speakers they didn't agree with, yes, but never try to muzzle an several entire branches of science because what those scientists had to say didn't agree with the dogma of their religion or were harmful to the profit margins of their political donors. And for the record, apart from AOC, Bernie and a few others I do not consider the American Democrats to be 'left-wing'. In my world they are at best moderate right wing, basically what the Republicans used to be before they went nuts.
Ok, looks like there's conflicting data. In 2014 Switzerland and Luxembourg had higher per-student spend than the US.
I can't be arsed tracking down whether the US is 1st or 4th on the list for 2018, so instead lets compare China and the US.
China's total spend is less than the US total spend, despite having many more students. China spends less on education than the US.
Chinese numbers: http://en.moe.gov.cn/News/Top_... US numbers: https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/...
Oh look, I can provide references. You're still talking shit. Now fuck off.
Well if you are using your arse to do your research small wonder you can't get your facts right. China contains way more people than the US and the US has for-profit schools so I'm not exactly surprised that the Chinese get more quality graduates out of each dollar they spend. And, no, I am disinclined to acquiesce to our request that I sexual intercourse off you arrogant arse buggering bloody cunt of a toilet-mouthed muppet (that was just for you since you don't seem to understand sentences that do not contain obscenities).
I'm pretty sure the term 'intellectual elite' has nothing to do with education or a condemnation of education. I hope you haven't somehow derived that people at trump rallys are anti-education. The term implies something entirely different. Elitism is a new way to saying looking down your nose at someone (I used to hear that expression a lot as a child, I rarely hear it now). The expression draws the image of someone with their nose up in the air because they are too good to be associating with the likes of you. It dates back to aristocracy. There are many ways someone can think they are better than you
1) race - some people think they belong to a superior race and that trait makes them better than others
2) money - nothing divides the world into clasism or caste based society more so than money. Merely having money causes those who came by it without working for it to often acquire a sense of superiority. The paid staff that wait on your every beckon call feeds this and amplifies it.
3) religion - the belief in whether you burn in hell or not has caused many to feel that they are superior because they are among those that are 'right' and will be vindicated when those that picked 'wrong' are unmercifully punished for it.
4) Intelligence - people can begin to act like a complete douche when they think they are significantly smarter than some other person or group.
Intellectual Elite actually implies someone THINKS they are so much better than everyone else because they THINK they are so much smarter. They arent ACTUALLY smarter, the merely assume they are. Because anyone who does not agree with 100% of everything they say MUST be less intelligent and therefore not worthy to vote because they are just too stupid to have that right/responsibility. Its not a condemnation of education. Its a condemnation of Elitism. The reality is that most of the people that fall into this critisism are actually NOT overly intellectual in nature. For the most part they actually do not do independent thought very well at all. They rely heavily on GroupThink and will tow the GroupThink line on every topic despite how poor their understanding of it actually is. Nothing could exemplify how dangerous GroupThink is better than those youtube videos where some guy goes around campus and interviews students. They will take some hot political topic and then read some quotes and claim Trump said them. Then these Intellectual Elite get on their soap box and talk about how bad trump is for saying that etc etc. Then the interviewer lets them know that those were actually statements by hillary, or barack, etc. Until that moment they were SURE... so SURE they were right and they were so much smarter than everyone else. Its elitism and thats what that derogatory term actually means. Its not intelligence if all you can do is parrot someone else's opinion. Anyone can memorize an encyclopedia. Pascals Law: A pressure applied to the surface of an enclosed fluid at rest, will be transmitted equally, and undiminished, throughout the fluid and to the walls of its container. I had to memorize that in nuclear power school. But until you actually understand it, and understand it so well you see it in everything fluid-dynamics, it is just words. Reciting them did not make me intellectual, it merely got me an A.
The term 'intellectual elite' only has nothing to do with education or a condemnation of education at a Trump rally. Everywhere else the word intellectual describes an intelligent, learned person who engages in critical thinking, research, and reflection about society, proposes solutions for its normative problems and gains authority as a public figure. Somebody who values quantifiable facts over emotionally triggered knee-jerk reactions. Whatever they think, when Trump supporters start agitating against evolution, claim climate change is a hoax and talk about doing 'something' about the 'intellectual elite' it conjures up Trump's quote about '2nd amendment people' doing something about Hillary
so your case that defunding education has no effect
I'm arguing against your unhinged foaming about stock buybacks and politics you disagree with. I've made no comments about defunding education.
But since you do want to go there: The US spend more per child on education than any other country on the planet.
Total US spending on education is down a little from its peak but so were birth rates 15 years ago. I'll help you out here: Fewer children means less total cost.
Actually the US is behind Luxembourg in that comparison so you are wrong. Also, spending per student varies wildly by state in the US so depending on where you are you get either good or completely shitty education. If you are in New York and ruled by a bunch of hippies socialists you get a pretty good education, if you are in Kansas and ruled by a bunch of Republicans you get a shitty education because they de-funded the school system. Amazingly Kansas isn't even at the bottom of the list of states that spend the least per child and where you subsequently get the crappiest education. The picture of per-child education in the US is massively skewed by a few very populous (usually Democratic governed) states that provide excellent education, many more (usually Republican governed) states provide quite shitty education. Not that the degree of per-child funding of schools is the only metric for education quality but in view of the degree to which many red states have de-funded education it must be having a major effect.
The lesson here is that if you want to be a player in the automated economy you better have a well educated workforce.
The IT industry (which is the one we're discussing here) is the educated workforce that's actually responsible for much of the last couple of decades of automation.
While IT isn't immune from automation nobody working in the industry for the last couple of decades has failed to observe the constant outsourcing and offshoring of jobs, roles and entire departments.
I didn't move out of programming roles because I was worried about automation. I did move out of programming roles because I could do other interesting work that was at far less risk of being undercut by an Indian body shop.
And part of this story is that China has enough IT workers but the west does. This is because many US states in particular de-funded their education system. If you want to replace cleaning ladies with a bunch of robots you are going to have to give the job of running those robots to somebody. That person is going to have to have a higher level of education than a cleaning lady does today. De-funding your schools and stultifying the masses is not likely to produce workers with the level of education needed to run and repair a bunch of automated assets.
while you sit on your hands and assume
You keep making assumptions about me and my own assumptions. You keep accusing me of specific views towards the Chinese. Stop it. You're wrong. You're a fucking idiot. Stop projecting your own inadequacies onto others.
No I won't stop contradicting you and I'm not an idiot, I'm just unwilling to fall to my knees and kowtow to you like some god of truth ... and you are still the same old potty mouth.
And you still sound like somebody who thinks that inserting some form of the word 'fuck' into every sentence makes their argument stronger.
You sound like the sort of cunt that thinks using word A instead of word B is material to the argument they're making. I use the term 'fuck' a lot, along with 'bugger', 'arse', 'bloody' and 'cunt'. At least my other words make fucking sense.
So I am incapable of accessing both nations and you are because ..... no proof?
You're posting diatribe, false accu
If I have to bet who will win, a bunch of UK Tory and DUP parliamentarians trying to prevent teenagers from getting porn or a bunch of teenagers determined to get their hand so porn, my money is on the kids.
@Freischutz, I'm pretty sure the populists in your country have little in common with conservatives in the US, connecting the two is a non-sequitur. Don't make that mistake like so many of the ignorant, angry masses. In the US, conservatives generally support school choice programs to allow children to get out of underperforming schools, charter schools which bring STEM education to underserved urban populations, and accountability for teachers and curricula that underperform. Liberals, on the other hand, support whatever teachers' unions deem to be in their best interests; want to insert Art studies into the STEM- further siphoning away resources from a curriculum that would give us top-shelf coders, engineers, and scientists; and support teaching revisionist history so as not to offend or make any ethnic group uncomfortable. Can you imagine if, say in Europe, they decided to never cover Napoleon, Hitler or Stalin in school because it made people "uncomfortable"? How long would it be before the world made those mistakes again? How many more hours per week should each student put into social pseudo-science classes, knowing they will come at the expense of math, science and technology since unions will not allow for the expansion of the school day or year? How do we force underperforming educators out of critical roles to give new, better-equipped STEM teachers a proper role and a livable wage when union-backed tenure arrangements prohibit chronic underperformers from being fired? Thanks for playing, please do come back again sometime.
I think there is a bit of semantic hijacking that has gone on here. Conservatives used to mean rational people who believed climate change is happening and that spending money on education, that providing people with health insurance is a good thing and that going to war with science over evolution was akin to being a flat-earther. At some point the word 'conservative' got hijacked in the US by a bunch of far right lunatics. I draw no parallels between the people calling themselves 'conservative' in the US and those doing so elsewhere. It seems to me American conservatives should find a new word for their social philosophy because 'conservative' has become synonymous with something else. The thing is that what passes for 'conservative' in Europe is called 'extreme far-left terrorism' in the US. Much of what passes for 'conservative' in the US is called 'fascism' in Europe, even by European conservatives.
> Say the right wing is anti-education
> Gets examples of the right wing not being anti-education
"Well of course those specific guys aren't!!! But everyone else is!!! I'm not wrong! I'm not wrong!"
Are you really unable to understand the concept of hypocrisy? ... As in: some right-wingnut spends money to get their idiot kids into a university and then goes to a Trump rally and rages against the educated. That's hypocrisy. Let me help you educate yourself on hypocrisy: https://www.google.com/search?...
Holy Jesus' butt-plug you're a cock.
Not good enough, now go to the 1st reformed church of the AR-15 and repeat that sentence.
1 - automation creates jobs as well as replacing them
Yes, but those jobs also require a higher level of worker education so your case that defunding education has no effect has now acquired yet another dent.
2 - outsourcing to low cost countries has replaced jobs irrespective of automation
Quoting the financial Times (yuk, I feel dirty): https://www.ft.com/content/dec... The US did indeed lose about 5.6m manufacturing jobs between 2000 and 2010. But according to a study by the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University, 85 per cent of these jobs losses are actually attributable to technological change — largely automation — rather than international trade.
The lesson here is that if you want to be a player in the automated economy you better have a well educated workforce.
3 - teachers are among the highest paid earners in the US
That depends entirely upon where you are and how seriously your state takes education: https://www.forbes.com/sites/n... ... also, the teacher's complaint is not just pay most of it is actually a total lack of resources and funding to do their job properly. Because their state leadership (usually Republican) has decided to experiment with small government.
4 - the Chinese are less than 20 years of reform away from another revolution
They have managed to create a telecommunications industry that owns 1500 standards essential 5G patents and four of the leading smartphone manufacturers in those 20 years. I look forward to seeing what they'll accomplish in the next 20 years while you sit on your hands and assume they'll never have the temerity to threaten America's technological lead.
5 - I've already told you I'm not underestimating anybody, but frankly China isn't my opponent. I'm not a nation state
You do a good job of sounding like you are determined to underestimate the Chinese.
PS - 7 - I don't use the term f**ing, I use the terms fuck and fucking. You may not like them but that's your fucking choice, stop trying to impose it on me
And you still sound like somebody who thinks that inserting some form of the word 'fuck' into every sentence makes their argument stronger.
PS - 8 - I don't have a toilet for a mouth.
Yes you do.
PS - 9 - I'm not fucking American. I'm also not Chinese and I'm also capable of objectively assessing both nations. You clearly are not.
So I am incapable of accessing both nations and you are because ..... no proof?
Maps, the Most Popular Elements of In-flight Entertainment Systems, Are About To Get a Big Upgrade -- and Some Ads
Here's an idea, just shut down the damn entertainment system and read a book (I know, radical thought).
You are delusional if you think this is a right wing problem. The vast majority of the kids I see going to private schools come from right wing families. I’m not even talking about super rich elite private schools. I am sure that they could find better ways to spend that $15,000 per year on tuition if they thought they had a choice. They are doing it so that their children have a decent shot at succeeding later in life. Three of the four largest and most successful private schools in my city (not even tier 3 in size) are religious in some sort of charter. Lexington Catholic, Lexington Christian Academy, Christ the King, etc. their academic program is far from substandard. They have the highest percentage of high school graduates qualifying for and in rolling into college.
So I do not think they are anti-education. Some do not like the anti-religious aspect of school, but a vast majority are doing it because of the substandard education that’s being offered up in public school that’s now deemed “good enough“. My daughter goes to public school. She’s finishing up her sophomore year. For the last four years I have been telling her that her writing skills are shit. I am constantly complaining about the quality of homework she hands him. Sometime she answers questions and doesn’t even use a complete sentence. Of course, she would argue back that the teacher said she doesn’t have to. Thinking I’m being lied to I reach out and ask the teachers. Guess what? She didn’t fucking have to! I am far from religious, but I’m starting to develop an anti-public education attitude based on these shitty reduced standards. In the early 80s, when I was in junior high, they didn’t call it middle school back then, you are not allowed to turn in any work that did not contain complete sentences. I do believe that the damn Scan-tron Machines that instantly graded those fill in the circle multiple choice test were the beginning of the stupidity. Sure it made it easy for the teachers, but recognizing the correct answer when told is not the same thing is actually knowing the correct answer.
The right-wing elite is not completely anti-education, they just encourage it in their political followers. It is the right-wing that energetically courts the evangelical movement that agitates against provable scientific facts like evolution. I have never seen a modern mainstream left wing movement in the US or EU declare a multi front war on science. The most impressive thing that the right wing has accomplished in the last 30 years is to convince about a third of America's working poor that their best friends looking out for the interests of the working poor are a bunch of trust fund babies who shit into golden toilets. They go to Trump rallies, give speeches about how you should hate and scorn the 'intellectual elite' ... "We golden toilet shitting billionaires who pay no taxes aren't the Elite!!! the college professors are the elite and must be destroyed!!! .... then they turn around and spend $2.5 million to get their idiot son (Jared Kushner in this example) into a university. It is a quite interesting hypocrisy but for some reason they feel they'll benefit from turning the broad masses of the poor into a bunch of illiterates by defunding education. Ill give the Chinese quite a lot of credit for spending large amounts of money to do the opposite.
They have an adequate supply of qualified developers and engineers, the EU and US in particular don't
That's got fuck all to do with investment in education and far more to do with Europe and the US outsourcing much of their IT to low cost locations.
Like China.
Underestimating your opponent is the mother of all defeats.
Being pragmatic and realistic about China's position in the world doesn't require underestimating them. It's actually possible to acknowledge their progress without attacking the education system in other countries.
You should try it.
PS: There's nowt wrong w' fucking
Automation has killed way more jobs than outsourcing has. In a world where automation is everywhere you need a high level of education in your workforce. The cleaning lady of the future is probably going to be a women running a fleet of cleaning robots with an tablet computer. You don't get there with a workforce trained in schools where the teachers are massively underpaid and there isn't even enough money to buy textbooks or put doors on the toilets. People were 'pragmatic' and 'realistic' about China (read: sat on their laurels confident in their god given right to be a tech leader) 20 years ago, now China is a threat. Give the Chinese another 20 years of reform and a sensible education policy and they'll surpass the US on every level. You can choose to underestimate your opponent but don't get to complain when your idleness bites you in the butt.
P.S. I don't really think you Americans fully understand just how asinine you sound to other people with your f**ing this, and f**ing that but there is a way you can find out. Try saying "Jesus' butt-plug" instead of 'fuck' for a few days. You will soon learn the virtues of not having a toilet for a mouth.
Oh please. China has a higher population than North America and Europe combined.
When you're looking for cheap programmers it's hardly a fucking surprise that you'll find some there.
...
Nor has China destroyed their education system by replacing achievement with "progressive" intersectional indoctrination.
Next time you see jobs you could do go to China, remember to place a lot of the blame on those "progressive" Feelz Studies Departments that replaced useful degree fields and destroyed the value of your education.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I blame for profit schools, the expense of education, truing student loans into a debt slavery scheme and a right wing political culture that glorifies ignorance.
Oh please. China has a higher population than North America and Europe combined.
When you're looking for cheap programmers it's hardly a fucking surprise that you'll find some there.
Chinese put tons of money into universities and incentives for young people to go there
..and yet despite the higher population China has less than 4/5 the number of students at university that America and the EU have, even without counting the rest of North America and Europe.
Is anybody surprised that their method worked better than the asinine political circus we are currently obsessing over at the expense of everything else except tax breaks for the fabulously rich?
Yes, I'm completely fucking amazed you claim their method worked better.
They have an adequate supply of qualified developers and engineers, the EU and US in particular don't. That speaks louder than any words and has so far resulted in Huawei managing to research their way to owning 1529 "standard-essential" 5G patents, the most of any company, and Xiaomi, Huawei, Oppo, and VIVO lead the list after Samsung and Apple on the list over the biggest smartphone manufacturers. Underestimating your opponent is the mother of all defeats.
P.S. Inserting a colloquial term for sexual intercourse into your sentences does nothing to make your argument more convincing.
As official Mar a Lago security, I'd like to see if you have any thumb drives I can please plug into official Secret Service biznezz, ya? The codeword is Drumpftards.
Aren't you way too busy chasing Chinese grannies and tossing the Donalds' golf balls out of sand pits?
It sounds like a grade of cheese to me. Between cottage and cottagest.
That is because cottage cheese is literally what it says on the tin. Cottage cheese is cheese curds and whey. It was eaten by poor people for the most part. In really hard times they'd strain out the whey, dissolve bones in the whey and eat it like a soup. I tasted that dish once and never felt any desire to do so again.
Your great great grandfather was a faggot!
I doubt it, at the time people were executed for homosexuality and it was a small community, he lived to be a very old man.
Incidentally, back then people were also heavily fined (or flogged if they could not pay) for begin a potty mouth like you.
My great great grandfather was a serf, a cottager.
Perhaps alternate phrasing next time? https://www.urbandictionary.co...
Cottager is one of the levels of serfdom in feudal societies, I can't help it that your mind is a sewer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Very well said.
The whole entire anti-education agenda of these right wing populists just pisses me off. My great great grandfather was a serf, a cottager. He made sure his son got educated as a carpenter. My great grandfather decided that the way to an even better life was to educate his sons and daughters so he taught them to read by himself. My grandfather became a sailor, his sisters all got good positions that allowed them to live a better life. My grandparents also educated all of their kids to the best of their financial ability. That is why I could go to University and get a CS degree. I recommend people watch the below clip because this is where we have ended up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
This is not just an American story, it's just worse there than it is in many other places. Every singe one of those people are going somewhere else to work where they'll be better paid and have an actual budget to get their job done. If you can move to China and get paid 3 times a US teacher's wage teaching Chinese high school students English in preparation for their university studies and a career as a highly skilled worker something is seriously wrong. Meanwhile the US is still busy arguing over asinine crap like whether the 'Kansas experiment', where they completely de-funded all of their schools in a quest for small government, was actually a good idea that was not given long enough to work out. Just watching that debate you begin to understand what the problem is. Being uneducated is nothing to be ashamed of, it is something you should strive to fix, not celebrate.
" thanks to the prevalence of qualified programmers which carmakers are struggling to hire elsewhere" is the key phrase.
This shortage is thanks to a long sequence of governments in the US and Europe who have put in tireless work over several decades to disassemble their education systems and stultify their populations so that they'll cheer when the money previously spent on educating them is spent to tax breaks to finance stock buybacks and CEO bonuses. You get what you vote for, especially if you allow yourself to be distracted from what really matters by non issues like immigrant caravans/flotillas supposedly coming to destroy your christian conservative civilisation. Meanwhile the Chinese put tons of money into universities and incentives for young people to go there. Is anybody surprised that their method worked better than the asinine political circus we are currently obsessing over at the expense of everything else except tax breaks for the fabulously rich?
China has banned plastic bags. https://www.google.com/search?...
Most of Africa has banned plastic bags. (4 years jail in Kenya!)
The USA? What plastics has the USA banned?
The conservatives in the USA are still waiting for the ROW to do something about the problem before they will consent to consider doing anything themselves. You cannot just ask the wealthiest nation on earth to lead by example now can you? That would be .... Bwaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!! UNFAIR!!! ....to quote their current president.
I believe one Thomas A Edison might like to have a word with you regarding successful music players...
Yeah, and there is a copper age carpenter who invented the wheel who'd like to have a few words with Elon Musk about how Tesla is ripping off his invention instead of innovating ... We can take this game all the way back to the first digging stick and the first hand-axe.