Modularity is what makes this great. Being able to use any shell, or any WM, or any text editor...that is what makes this free software stuff so beautiful - you can run a great system that you have tweaked exactly how you like it. and so can I. and while I can run the same apps you do, my setup is Icewm with minimal graphics and very few "extra" applications running, and you'rs is KDE with every little graphical doohicky cranked up. I just think that modularity is beautiful.
Remember the industrial era? it was workable because each widget 5A was made exactly like every other widget 5A. you could assembly-line, you could swap out one part for another, and the final product worked the same. Maybe this is an idiotic illustration. But I think lots of little peices making up one great big OS is just nifty. that's all.
you just have to know where to look. keep trying, and you'll get an open, pretty fast one. usually people mirror it as well - keep checking this thread (nested, scan for "mirror") and you're bound to get one or two private mirrors. Also check public universities-i know of three in the midwest that mirror mandrake that aren't on any public list - just go to xyz.edu and find their computer science/engineering servers and poke around. i've gotten quick iso's this way too....
sample - indian.cse.msu.edu hosts mandrake, but they aren't updated yet to 9.0.
I imagine it is certifiable, but they didn't go to the trouble to do so because it's not anything anyone is going to pay for. The two are virtually identical, +/- a few non-free packages - the core is essentially the same, so download follows standard. It just wasn't certified because that takes time and it's a free version.
What exactly are you talking about? I don't get it. I use linux. I have friends who use linux. It's more user-friendly than windows - my linux setup doesn't BSOD, it doesn't give me "WARNING APPP TERMINATED TO TERMINATE APP PRESS OK NOW" errors, or other mindless idiocy. You don't have to hit Start to turn the cursed thing off, just type "shutdown -h now" on a console, the -h is for halt. Now that's user friendly, just...different.
Last I checked, Open source and linux was for the user. that's what the GPL is all about, so the user doesn't get screwed by the seller - the user has the code and the freedom. The community makes Open apps to serve the community, otherwise they would not publish them and make them freely available. Contrary to what you've said, linux is for the user, while proprietary systems like to lie and tell you they are for the user, but really, they are just doing what they have to to sell product.
I've left non-linux, non-geek users to sit at my icewm setup, and gone for about 20 minutes. I come back, they are playing music, surfing the web, and doing what they have to do. A smart person can handle a different set-up. And if you must have windows, use KDE. If you can get win32, KDE is natural.
In 100 years i'll look back and laugh, and say, you know, 100 years ago we were worrying about the MS/linux debate, and linux was growing like a monster. I'll be using something entirely new and snazzy - hopefully open source still...and loving it.
This is a community. Some of us really, really hate Microsoft, and some of us just don't care. Some of us call them names - some of us don't. XYZ Business, inc, doesn't care about what Linux zealots say - usually zealots don't make unbiased, intelligent, thoughtful statements - no offense to zealots.
MS has zealots who hate linux, too ya know.
In the end, linux must be accepted on the merits of the software, both public/open, and private/proprietary, the distrobutions, and the overall value it provides. It doesn't have to be free to be used - it just has to be _better_. This is what Ballmer's saying, too - win through value.
Personally, I think Linux (the OS) is a tremendous product. It's the most stable, secure, capable, free-as-in-speech OS out there. As a complete system, including the applications, it is formidable as a server - and as a desktop system i've seen it grow, from "linux will never make it on the desktop," to "well, if I help my grandma set it up, Linux is great for her," to the current, "Linux is actually viable on the desktop." In 2 years - well...we'll see how it all works out.
I can be a zealot - but today, I'm just a very happy user.
I imagine you would be just fine with that drive. Your CD-R drive documentation should say somewhere whether or not you can burn the larger 700MB/80min. CD's, or just the 650MB/74min kind. I imagine that knoppix isn't some sort of 700+ on a cd distro - that would be silly.
Just check your hardware spec's - or go to HP's site. I could do it all for you, but then you wouldn't learn much, would you. It's self-reliance, you know?
Re:Giving away StarOffice != giving away Windows
on
Sun To Sell Linux PCs
·
· Score: 1
Now That's funny. : D
look, mom, i'm a communist. Linus is a communist. Robin Hood was a communist too ya know.
i read this online, that XP is whoohoo great. everyone i've talked to who's actually used it either says "whah? its different from anythinge else?" or "yeah...XP kinda sucks." Overall, i've gotten >10 nays and one yay. It's fine that you like it...but my personal data-polling (my most trusted source) tells me that XP isn't that hot. Usability testing's great. just give people something that makes reasonable sense, and let them learn it.
Every time the krez virus (or other nasty examples) hit, it's a Microsoft virus. Every time you need to do a MS security patch, just mention it is a Microsoft security patch. Every crash, BSOD, is a "windows" crash. Don't be obnoxious. be subtle. They might get the idea.
If linux is so great, point out why. Smile and say, "ahh...i'm so glad that I have all of these great, low-cost of free tools that are so useful." Or, "*happy sigh*...popups sure do suck. Glad I don't ever see popups with mozilla, and no aol ad's with gaim. life is good in linux." That, and virtual desktops are so useful. and consider that maybe going windows -> "windows-like WM" -> linux isn't the idea, but perhaps a jump to a fast, wonderful system OTHER than KDE or Gnome might be fun? It's just a thought.
Good luck.
My fiance switches as soon as i get Linux connected to her dialup ISP...Mr. Perens, where can i get good HP Pavilion softmodem drivers??? : )
I lived on an *honors* floor at a state university, and many people had no clue what c drive was. "windows" users is 90% of everybody using a computer. You are *guaranteed* (!) to get people who don't know what the system does, even one layer away from the desktop. And in my experience, even among intelligent people, users just don't know what they are doing. that includes not knowing what a hard drive is, what RAM is, what C:\ is, or even how to plug in their headphones properly.
Part of the problem of linux migration is that old habits have to be changed. part of the problem is FUD. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. part of the problem, is that linux isn't windows and thus people have to *change*. Part of the problem is that linux isn't windows and it can't run everything windows can. This one decreases every day.
My suggestion is, start slow. Do what you can. Linux is a good OS, in part it should sell itself. Let it. Don't make it political. Be patient, be helpful. Don't be a zealot, be an evangelist, a kind-hearted missionary to the confused and lost. Linux will do fine.
PS: if linux isn't accepted by everyone, that's fine with me...this whole linux for the masses thing is great but I kind of like being the non-virus, non-ad target. I like the great apps, stability, and power. What will 30 million more users bring us?
Bah. I've been jumping out of trees for...well...a few years now and i've never had any problems with that. Even the few times i've gotten scraped up were nothing more than minor annoyances. Jumping out of trees never hurts anyone, or causes damage, or kills OJ's wife!
I'm not saying they will die tomorrow. I can't really say they will be gone in twenty years. I'm just saying, they rode the PC boom, and the internet boom. They aren't going to handle free software that well, and it seems to be growing. They certainly can't handle non-growth markets. They consume. They must have new markets to rape. They have reached saturation.
yes, microsoft has cash to the ceiling. yes, they can take terrible failure and keep on trucking. But they've shot up, and i'm guessing that they might fall back down a few notches. *shrug*.
Yeah, but we don't beat people up to make them assimilated. Microsoft is like the blob, eating and consuming and sucking up everything. haha. sucking. some reason, i'm not laughing too much.
we're like the People's Coalition of Peaceful Forces. We will protect you, provided you help protect us. GPL baby, yeah. We aren't that big but we are growing. Microsoft is the current, abusive monstrosity, that is consuming and crushing and harming the people, but for now it may be easier to stay in the Kingdom of Microsoft than running away. But we're still getting refugees.
You take a common viewpoint, and i am pretty sure to be flamed if i post a response to it. *sigh*.
The reason he said gays eat feces may be because that *is* done. There have been polls done in homosexually-oriented magazines, by gays for gays, that ask what things they like to do for sex. Playing with poop is on the list. I don't mean to be a flamer or a jerk - but the information is out there.
I don't know about everyone else, but I *choose* to be straight. I like women. I don't like men. To be totally honest, I can see why men like men - they have many features that women just don't have (not speaking physically), and they do have big muscles and all. But I'm not homosexual. I would never have sex with a man. Because on one level that seems just a bit wrong to me, and on another level, I choose in myself that i will never take that path.
Now, it should be pointed out (*dons asbestos suit*, thanks whoever-you-were for your sig) that a common excuse for behavior is "i didn't have a choice, I was born/made/caused to be this way." Whether it's true or not, that's another story, but what i'm saying in this paragraph is that it's also a common excuse for something someone doesn't like about themself, or feels that someone else doesn't like about themself.
Gay people do not have to be gay. They can change their minds, many do, going from either side to the other. Because people change, from liking women to liking men to liking women, or whatever the case may be, I'd say it's a choice, a decision.
You can't be made gay, without some choice or action on your part. (*asbestos suit is warning of dangerously high flame levels*) You become that way. and maybe you don't sit down and decide to be gay. Just like you might not sit down and decide to eat french fries every time you go to mcdonalds. But the fact is, you can change, you can not eat those fries, or whatever. You can decide not to act a certain way, not to let yourself have certain feelings. It's not set in stone, is all i'm saying.
This is a deep, difficult subject, and i'm having trouble saying quite what i want to. please email me, if anyone wants to flame/discuss with me.
MS has been around only 20 years. They've been big for 10, maybe 15 years. *raises hand* votes that they won't last as long as they've been around?? anybody?
Kwil, your post is perhaps the most interesting thing i've read all day. It puts together many of the things i've been thinking, and makes some new conclusions i hadn't thought of before. +3, revelation to me.
curse me and my never-moderator status.
[ignore if you are an off-topic nazi] Is there some magic switch to moderate? I am "willing to moderate" but I never see an option to. what am i missing? [/ignore].
Slashdot Mirror
Modularity is what makes this great. Being able to use any shell, or any WM, or any text editor...that is what makes this free software stuff so beautiful - you can run a great system that you have tweaked exactly how you like it. and so can I. and while I can run the same apps you do, my setup is Icewm with minimal graphics and very few "extra" applications running, and you'rs is KDE with every little graphical doohicky cranked up. I just think that modularity is beautiful.
Remember the industrial era? it was workable because each widget 5A was made exactly like every other widget 5A. you could assembly-line, you could swap out one part for another, and the final product worked the same. Maybe this is an idiotic illustration. But I think lots of little peices making up one great big OS is just nifty. that's all.
dangit i can't even count. that should b ***** out of 5. *slaps forhead*
How can anyone complain when mandrake people read posts on slashdot and ASK to be emailed about problems?. ASK! Un-be-leivable.
Deno, I think people just like to whine. I say - great work, great distro - you won't hear any whining out of me. **** out of 5, and keep it up!
you just have to know where to look. keep trying, and you'll get an open, pretty fast one. usually people mirror it as well - keep checking this thread (nested, scan for "mirror") and you're bound to get one or two private mirrors. Also check public universities-i know of three in the midwest that mirror mandrake that aren't on any public list - just go to xyz.edu and find their computer science/engineering servers and poke around. i've gotten quick iso's this way too....
sample - indian.cse.msu.edu hosts mandrake, but they aren't updated yet to 9.0.
Keep looking, you will find one.
I imagine it is certifiable, but they didn't go to the trouble to do so because it's not anything anyone is going to pay for. The two are virtually identical, +/- a few non-free packages - the core is essentially the same, so download follows standard. It just wasn't certified because that takes time and it's a free version.
What exactly are you talking about? I don't get it. I use linux. I have friends who use linux. It's more user-friendly than windows - my linux setup doesn't BSOD, it doesn't give me "WARNING APPP TERMINATED TO TERMINATE APP PRESS OK NOW" errors, or other mindless idiocy. You don't have to hit Start to turn the cursed thing off, just type "shutdown -h now" on a console, the -h is for halt. Now that's user friendly, just...different.
Last I checked, Open source and linux was for the user. that's what the GPL is all about, so the user doesn't get screwed by the seller - the user has the code and the freedom. The community makes Open apps to serve the community, otherwise they would not publish them and make them freely available. Contrary to what you've said, linux is for the user, while proprietary systems like to lie and tell you they are for the user, but really, they are just doing what they have to to sell product.
I've left non-linux, non-geek users to sit at my icewm setup, and gone for about 20 minutes. I come back, they are playing music, surfing the web, and doing what they have to do. A smart person can handle a different set-up. And if you must have windows, use KDE. If you can get win32, KDE is natural.
In 100 years i'll look back and laugh, and say, you know, 100 years ago we were worrying about the MS/linux debate, and linux was growing like a monster. I'll be using something entirely new and snazzy - hopefully open source still...and loving it.
This is a community. Some of us really, really hate Microsoft, and some of us just don't care. Some of us call them names - some of us don't. XYZ Business, inc, doesn't care about what Linux zealots say - usually zealots don't make unbiased, intelligent, thoughtful statements - no offense to zealots.
MS has zealots who hate linux, too ya know.
In the end, linux must be accepted on the merits of the software, both public/open, and private/proprietary, the distrobutions, and the overall value it provides. It doesn't have to be free to be used - it just has to be _better_. This is what Ballmer's saying, too - win through value.
Personally, I think Linux (the OS) is a tremendous product. It's the most stable, secure, capable, free-as-in-speech OS out there. As a complete system, including the applications, it is formidable as a server - and as a desktop system i've seen it grow, from "linux will never make it on the desktop," to "well, if I help my grandma set it up, Linux is great for her," to the current, "Linux is actually viable on the desktop." In 2 years - well...we'll see how it all works out.
I can be a zealot - but today, I'm just a very happy user.
I imagine you would be just fine with that drive. Your CD-R drive documentation should say somewhere whether or not you can burn the larger 700MB/80min. CD's, or just the 650MB/74min kind. I imagine that knoppix isn't some sort of 700+ on a cd distro - that would be silly.
Just check your hardware spec's - or go to HP's site. I could do it all for you, but then you wouldn't learn much, would you. It's self-reliance, you know?
Now That's funny. : D
look, mom, i'm a communist. Linus is a communist. Robin Hood was a communist too ya know.
www.TinHatsForCheap.com
i read this online, that XP is whoohoo great. everyone i've talked to who's actually used it either says "whah? its different from anythinge else?" or "yeah...XP kinda sucks." Overall, i've gotten >10 nays and one yay. It's fine that you like it...but my personal data-polling (my most trusted source) tells me that XP isn't that hot. Usability testing's great. just give people something that makes reasonable sense, and let them learn it.
Every time the krez virus (or other nasty examples) hit, it's a Microsoft virus. Every time you need to do a MS security patch, just mention it is a Microsoft security patch. Every crash, BSOD, is a "windows" crash. Don't be obnoxious. be subtle. They might get the idea.
If linux is so great, point out why. Smile and say, "ahh...i'm so glad that I have all of these great, low-cost of free tools that are so useful." Or, "*happy sigh*...popups sure do suck. Glad I don't ever see popups with mozilla, and no aol ad's with gaim. life is good in linux." That, and virtual desktops are so useful. and consider that maybe going windows -> "windows-like WM" -> linux isn't the idea, but perhaps a jump to a fast, wonderful system OTHER than KDE or Gnome might be fun? It's just a thought.
Good luck.
My fiance switches as soon as i get Linux connected to her dialup ISP...Mr. Perens, where can i get good HP Pavilion softmodem drivers??? : )
I lived on an *honors* floor at a state university, and many people had no clue what c drive was. "windows" users is 90% of everybody using a computer. You are *guaranteed* (!) to get people who don't know what the system does, even one layer away from the desktop. And in my experience, even among intelligent people, users just don't know what they are doing. that includes not knowing what a hard drive is, what RAM is, what C:\ is, or even how to plug in their headphones properly.
Part of the problem of linux migration is that old habits have to be changed. part of the problem is FUD. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. part of the problem, is that linux isn't windows and thus people have to *change*. Part of the problem is that linux isn't windows and it can't run everything windows can. This one decreases every day.
My suggestion is, start slow. Do what you can. Linux is a good OS, in part it should sell itself. Let it. Don't make it political. Be patient, be helpful. Don't be a zealot, be an evangelist, a kind-hearted missionary to the confused and lost. Linux will do fine.
PS: if linux isn't accepted by everyone, that's fine with me...this whole linux for the masses thing is great but I kind of like being the non-virus, non-ad target. I like the great apps, stability, and power. What will 30 million more users bring us?
use mandrate 8.2 supermount and you might not ever have that umount floppy problem. : )
You use Hotmail, you moron!
That is helping Microsoft, you dimwit!
Hmm. So using their bandwidth, blocking their ads, and generally screwing with their system is *helping* them? ok...
I guess you could argue that i count as a user. but htey count dead accounts anyways, so why not just sit here and keep using it?
So what you're saying is, until we rethink EULA's, computer science won't become more responsible because it doesn't HAVE to?
Bah. I've been jumping out of trees for...well...a few years now and i've never had any problems with that. Even the few times i've gotten scraped up were nothing more than minor annoyances. Jumping out of trees never hurts anyone, or causes damage, or kills OJ's wife!
You get the idea.
...WinXP Hemos Edition...
Hemos...edition...isn't that Rob's nickname?
*wanders off confused*
I'm not saying they will die tomorrow. I can't really say they will be gone in twenty years. I'm just saying, they rode the PC boom, and the internet boom. They aren't going to handle free software that well, and it seems to be growing. They certainly can't handle non-growth markets. They consume. They must have new markets to rape. They have reached saturation.
yes, microsoft has cash to the ceiling. yes, they can take terrible failure and keep on trucking. But they've shot up, and i'm guessing that they might fall back down a few notches. *shrug*.
Yeah, but we don't beat people up to make them assimilated. Microsoft is like the blob, eating and consuming and sucking up everything. haha. sucking. some reason, i'm not laughing too much.
we're like the People's Coalition of Peaceful Forces. We will protect you, provided you help protect us. GPL baby, yeah. We aren't that big but we are growing. Microsoft is the current, abusive monstrosity, that is consuming and crushing and harming the people, but for now it may be easier to stay in the Kingdom of Microsoft than running away. But we're still getting refugees.
I get it. I laughed. *high-five*.
You take a common viewpoint, and i am pretty sure to be flamed if i post a response to it. *sigh*.
The reason he said gays eat feces may be because that *is* done. There have been polls done in homosexually-oriented magazines, by gays for gays, that ask what things they like to do for sex. Playing with poop is on the list. I don't mean to be a flamer or a jerk - but the information is out there.
I don't know about everyone else, but I *choose* to be straight. I like women. I don't like men. To be totally honest, I can see why men like men - they have many features that women just don't have (not speaking physically), and they do have big muscles and all. But I'm not homosexual. I would never have sex with a man. Because on one level that seems just a bit wrong to me, and on another level, I choose in myself that i will never take that path.
Now, it should be pointed out (*dons asbestos suit*, thanks whoever-you-were for your sig) that a common excuse for behavior is "i didn't have a choice, I was born/made/caused to be this way." Whether it's true or not, that's another story, but what i'm saying in this paragraph is that it's also a common excuse for something someone doesn't like about themself, or feels that someone else doesn't like about themself.
Gay people do not have to be gay. They can change their minds, many do, going from either side to the other. Because people change, from liking women to liking men to liking women, or whatever the case may be, I'd say it's a choice, a decision.
You can't be made gay, without some choice or action on your part. (*asbestos suit is warning of dangerously high flame levels*) You become that way. and maybe you don't sit down and decide to be gay. Just like you might not sit down and decide to eat french fries every time you go to mcdonalds. But the fact is, you can change, you can not eat those fries, or whatever. You can decide not to act a certain way, not to let yourself have certain feelings. It's not set in stone, is all i'm saying.
This is a deep, difficult subject, and i'm having trouble saying quite what i want to. please email me, if anyone wants to flame/discuss with me.
MS has been around only 20 years. They've been big for 10, maybe 15 years. *raises hand* votes that they won't last as long as they've been around?? anybody?
seeing as how Pepsi-cola owns Taco Bell... : )
not sure whether to hi-five you or applaud you, but well-put analogy. thanks.
Kwil, your post is perhaps the most interesting thing i've read all day. It puts together many of the things i've been thinking, and makes some new conclusions i hadn't thought of before. +3, revelation to me.
curse me and my never-moderator status.
[ignore if you are an off-topic nazi]
Is there some magic switch to moderate? I am "willing to moderate" but I never see an option to. what am i missing?
[/ignore].