How Microsoft Tried To Buy Nintendo

An anonymous reader submits: "A new book, Opening the Xbox: Inside Microsoft's Plan to Unleash an Entertainment Revolution discusses Microsoft's plans to buy Nintendo for $25 billion in late 1999. By January 2000 however, talks dissolved and each company went their seperate way. Makes you wonder how the home entertainment industry would be different if they had gone through with it. Stories are at Gamers and Cube Europe."

Comments

Second post

[Anonymous Coward]

"I was surprised," Arakawa admitted. "We didn't need the money. I thought it was a joke."

And then he saw the X-box, and got the punchline.

What about sega?

[CmdrTaco (editor)]

This brings up an interesting point. Sure, Microsoft has always been known to gobble up smaller companies and absorb the market share that they previously held. But with the antitrust trial, would it really have been a good idea to buy Microsoft?

If Microsoft really wanted to be immediately successful in the console market, they should've bought Sega late last year. The Dreamcast was a great system, and with the Microsoft marketing machine behind it and a potential sequel, there would be almost guaranteed success. Plus, Sega could be bought for a whole lot less money (especially now).

Re:What about sega?

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, that would be terrible!!!! Microsoft buying Microsoft!!! God save us!!!!

Re:What about sega?

[DaedalusLogic]

The Gamecube Europe article mentions that they tried, and then threw their weight into trying to by Nintendo next. Seems a little out of order. I think that MS is doing an OK job with the XBox personally. A merger with either would have serious potential to have turned the tables on Sony. Did anyone think about what influence the Sony empire has on market penetration due to the fact that every retailer wants to carry Sony TV's Audio... etc. That's how they make their console a success... They have the power to make every VAR buy them. MS of course does too... but the less physcial products you ship to retailers the less sway you have.

Re:What about sega?

[speedfreak_5]

I really don't see why they didn't. They already had their hands in the Dreamcast with WinCE and IE for web surfing. But, if the X-box was in development at the time of Sega's leaving the console market, that would have conflicted with their PR stance. To hear of a new console from them right after they bought Sega out would have a few people thinking that it was nothing but a rehash of the dreamcast with microsoft logos and a big green X on it.

Re:What about sega?

[YourMissionForToday]

What are you talking about? They tried to buy SEGA and SEGA refused. After dumping the Dreamcast, they have become a profitable company. They are bigger than EA/Square and stand to make a killing developing for multiple consoles.

BTW, WinCE was only included in the Dreamcast to encourage porting PC games. Internet Explorer is nowhere to be found on the Dreamcast (PlanetWeb made the DC browser in the US).

Re:What about sega?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand this.

It seems to be implying that:

A) Having a superior system to sony (dreamcast) won't win the console wars (because dreamcast died)

B) Having superior marketing to sony (xbox) won't win the console wars (because xbox is dying)

Yet, having a superior system and superior marketing together will.

Re:What about sega?

[Tremul]

I disagree with the point about buying Sega. Why would Microsoft buy a company that has a history of lying to its customers, putting out faulty products which they don't support for very long and then throwing a brand new one on you once you realize how terrible the old version was. Oh wait...

Re:What about sega?

[azosx]

Microsoft wanted Nintendo to drop its GameCube console and get behind the Xbox.

As the gamers.com article states, Microsoft wasn't looking to purchase the GameCube's technology when making an offer for Nintendo, they just wanted the name and licenses (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon). Despite the opinion of many gamers that the Dreamcast was a great system, the fact was Sega had been in second and third place for the last six years behind Nintendo and Sony. Microsoft didn't want that kind of recognition with their Xbox. They wanted the only heavy hitter at the time that could potentially smoke Sony.

Re:What about sega?

[byran lei]

>would have conflicted with their PR stance. To hear of a new console
>from them right after they bought Sega out would have a few people
>thinking that it was nothing but a rehash of the dreamcast with
>microsoft logos and a big green X on it.
>
>
You mean that's not the case now?

Re:What about sega?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is anybody investigating the way that the Sony empire leverages and cooerces dealers of other Sony products into buying their consoles?

Re:What about sega?

[Anonymous Coward]

xbox is not dying.

It's like any other Microsoft 1.0 product.

Actually, xbox is closer to IE 3.0. The next version will end up ruling.

It makes no sense for Microsoft to port their console effort to a different architecture. They rule on x86 and compatability between xbox and Windows gaming is something they can well leverage.

Re:What about sega?

[Gavitron_zero]

purchasing Sega would have been a really stupid idea. For one thing, Sega has never really made a compedative piece of hardware since the Master System (man that thing was awesome). Secondly, at the time this was happening, Sega was already planning to get out of the hardware market. MS would essentially just be buying a half-assed development house. Althought the Dreamcast itself was a good console, Sega had no market share because of the lousy development. Microsoft is going to run into the same problems with the X-Box. It's a nice piece of hardware, but they don't have the good developers making anything exclusively for it, and the exclusive stuff they have is junk. No reason to spend the $500 on a x-box when you can get a ps2 for half that.

Re:What about sega?

[Alan Partridge]

you seem to be forgetting that Sony look after their customers. Playstation was a real revolution in the console market owing to the high quality of te hardware and the diversity of the software, bringing the price of both the consoles AND the games over it's life breeds brand loyalty and then carrying compatibility over to their next generation console seals the deal. For the PSX owner, the PS2 is EASILY the best buy.

Re:What about sega?

[Alan Partridge]

I tyotally disagree, the Sega Mega Drive was an excellent system and a massive success - crap like the Mega CD failed, then the Saturn - but Sega uled with the Mega Drive - Super Famicom was later and never had Micro Machines!

Re:What about sega?

[ronfar]

IE?

Dreamcast uses Planetweb for surfing.

Re:What about sega?

[KirkH]

Uh. In which region does the Xbox sell for $500 and the PS2 for $250? Not the US, not Europe, not Australia. I believe both machines cost the same in all those regions now. I think the Xbox is still more expensive in Japan, but not twice as expensive. So which is it?

Re:What about sega?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well lets think about this. Did anyone remeber that Microsoft and Sega were working together on the DreamCast. Guess what happened when the dreamcast started to fail. Microsoft bailed out.

Then guess what happens? Microsoft comes out with the XBox. I wonder where Microsoft got the schematics and design stuff from (hint, sega).
Sega is a software company now, they dont make anymore games for the DreamCast, except the ones that were promised. Did anyone see the Sega games for Nintendo? Maybe Sega is trying to get back at Microsoft.

Re:What about sega?

[Empty Threats]

Actually, the PSX was crap, even by the standards of the day.
Brand loyalty didn't help Nintendo.
Noone can control "diversity of the software". Because it was successful, it had a great deal of software. Chicken and egg ;)

I don't think much would have changed....

[Penguin Follower]

because, although MS would have eliminated/assimilated a competitor with the deal, with MS's name on the console the public reactions would have been the same.

Re:I don't think much would have changed....

[Ibjr]

But it would be ironic, because the bastard child spawn from such a deal would run on the PPC chip :)

Re:I don't think much would have changed....

[Anonymous Coward]

How would that be ironic? Microsoft made NT4 for the alpha, ppc, and mips chip.
MICROSOFT != intel

Re:I don't think much would have changed....

[Anonymous Coward]

ha ha you really miss the irony

What would have happened?

[Devil's BSD]

On the plus side, Im just glad we dont have to use X-Cubes. On the negative, it would have been an uncommon sight of an American company taking over a Japanese one.

Re:What would have happened?

[nomadic]

Not really. General Motors and Ford both own significant shares in Japanese car companies.

It's that neverending recession of theirs. Despite the insistences on both sides that Japanese companies are just that more efficient and successful than American ones, the Japanese recession is already over a decade old.

If I owned Nintendo, I would have definitely cashed out; they're just not worth 25 billion, and a lot of their money is from the Pokemon franchise (and the chances are very slim that they'll get a new fad to match that anytime soon).

Re:What would have happened?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

heh. i'd be more worried about the one-step-closer-to-media-domination aspect such a buyout would create.

there's only really two more industries microsoft needs to invade to be considered pure evil(tm): the music industry, and the movie industry.

Re:What would have happened?

[Xenex]

Err..

Windows Media Audio

and

Windows Media Video.

Re:What would have happened?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

but do they own any musicians, or have they made a movie? no.

Re:What would have happened?

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't do real publishing, either. Just Microsoft Press, which is a non-starter. If they bought out a big publisher, on the other hand. . .

love....

[Sideswiped]

just another reason why I love nintendo... it shouldn't be too hard to reading to this and come to the conclusion MS just wanted to get a larger share of the market(and franchises) and then reap the $$$$ and at the heart of it could really ever give a shit about gaming(other then the $$$).

Jesus Christ!

[Devil's BSD]

it amazes me what people do for a living

Crashes

[SiIverFish]

Now when your gamecube crashes, there is no blue screen of death, just Maro popping up saying "Mama-mea, iv'e crashed AGAIN"

Re:Crashes

[funkhauser]

>> just Maro popping up... I'll ignore the unintentional Magic: the Gathering reference and mention how humorous Bill Gates in a red-and-blue plumber's uniform would be. :)

Re:Crashes

[Anonymous Coward]

It would've been 'Ohhh Nooo!" with a left to right wipe of a blue screen.
Pikachu would be a good bitmap for an NT blue screen.

Re:Crashes

[drwiii]

Actually, now that you mention it...

I can see it now...

[Anonymous Coward]

MSNES

Re:I can see it now...

[Nintendork]

Too funny

Re:I can see it now...

[Tremul]

NES2000

Nintendo probably tried to take advantage of MS

[edwdig]

The way I see the situation, Nintendo probably tried to pull something similar to what MS did back when they entered the mouse market. (MS got into negotiations with Logitech, learned all about their manufacturing process, then broke off talks) Nintendo probably just saw the opportunity to learn a lot about their competition, and entertained MS just enough to get all the info they could from them. Once they did they, they broke off talks. Nintendo is so set on their business model that they won't try anything new. Nintendo of America would love to be more aggressive against Sony, but they have to answer to the Japan branch, who is quite content where they are because they make a hell of a lot more money than the games branch of Sony does. If it's not broken, don't fix it is pretty much their motto, so why would they ever even considering selling out to MS ?

Re:Nintendo probably tried to take advantage of MS

[Cornelius the Great]

Wouldn't this idea make more sense if you turned this around? Nintendo didn't try anything new. It was Microsoft that entered new ground in the console market.

Re:Nintendo probably tried to take advantage of MS

[magicsquid]

Sometimes history is bound to repeat itself. If you recall, something similar happened back in the days prior to the PlayStation. Nintendo and Sony met to cooperate on a CDRom add-on for the SNES. Nintendo broke off talks after Sony had already announced the new drive at E3. Sony went on to create the PlayStation out of what it had learned from Nintendo. Isn't it also possible that exactly the opposite of what you suggest happened... that Microsoft got into talks with Nintendo to learn what it could about the industry because it already new it was going to launch it's own console? Microsoft could gain a tremendous amount of information from the company that has been in the console market longer than any other, Nintendo.

Re:Nintendo probably tried to take advantage of MS

[Graymalkin]

Nintendo and Sony parted ways not because Sony debuted their technology as I recall. Nintendo halfway through the project decided to go with Phillips and their CD-i technology leaving Sony with a bunch of money invested into their CD system. Sony kept developing it because Ken Kutaragi bet his career on it. He thought a game console would be what Sony needed to spurn some demand for their products. Nintendo and Sony got back together about two years later but the deal broke because Sony wanted to do a stand alone system and Nintendo still wanted a add-on for the SNES.

Sony then formed their CEE division with Ken Kutaragi at the helm and launched the PSX. It became ultra popular because they managed to get the big wigs like Capcom and Konami to develop native games as well as port Arcade games to it. It whomped the shit out of the Saturn and Nintendo dropped their CD-ROM add-on plans and hooked up with SGI. I remember at the time there was a good deal of confusion as to what the fuck Nintendo was doing. You were never sure if they were making a stand alone 32-bit console or a add-on for the SNES.

Microsoft I think was in the same position as Sony was in 1992, they had an initiative to get into the game console market but wanted someone more experienced to go in with. What I think people miss is Sony is the Microsoft of Japan. Career minded folks in Japan's electronics industry don't badmouth Sony. With the PSX they were entering into a industry they had no experience in. It was only through learning from Nintendo and Kutaragi's incessant board room bowing and scraping that the PSX saw the light of day.

Re:Nintendo probably tried to take advantage of MS

[NanoGator]

The talks broke down because Sony was a little too greedy about branding and royalties. The basic plot is that it would have mutated into a Sony device using Nintendo's fan base.

MS was probably looking to do the same thing. Had Nintendo been bought by MS, that would have seriously made me cautious about investing in Nintendo products anymore. Nintendo's an awesome company that *knows* how to make games. If MS bought them (and changed them....) I'd have serious doubts about the future of the game market. Still, I'd much prefer MS buying Nintendo than Sony.

Re:Nintendo probably tried to take advantage of MS

[jgkastra]

Sony and Nintendo go back even farther.

Remember that little sound processor in that SNES of yours? Of course you do, you probably still listen to SNES game music all the time...

That little chip was the SPC700. And guess who designed it. Ken Kutaragi himself. It had its own RAM, and was independant of the SNES's CPU.

Typical M$

[Eil]

While this is new news, it's also old news. Microsoft's policy on innovation: If you can't beat 'em, buy 'em.

I was just pointing out today to a friend how Windows XP's feature to send in bug reports to M$ Central was first pioneered (that I know of) by Netscape.

Re:Typical M$

[Eil]

... and I forgot to add that the last point there only serves to exemplify the issue that nearly all of Win2k's and WinXP's "innovations" have actually been done before, either in *NIX-land or other software. (And usually better.)

Re:Typical M$

[JFMulder]

.. and you forget to put your foot in your mouth when you wrote this. Come on, of course Microsoft has copied Unix. How could they not!!! Do you accuse Saturn to rip off Ford because they're making cars. Ford has been there for a hundred years! You're right, Saturn are dirty bastards for trying to make a clone or a different version of car.

Linux and UNIX groupies like you give the community a bad name.

And what was wrong with trying to buy Nintedo? It's not only a question on buying to beat everyone. This is a pretty normal move in the industry. If you have some ideas, but don't have all the expertise to go forward with them, why don't you make a alliance with another company, or buy the other company and integrate it with yours, so the product will be even better?

Re:Typical M$

[Anonymous Coward]

Saturn is owned by GM who has been in the car making game as long as Ford has.

Re:Typical M$

[silvaran]

The rules changed once Microsoft was declared as a monopoly. We now have reason to believe that any buyout of Nintendo is simply a tactic for Microsoft to gain control of the gaming industry--not an attempt to improve this industry.

Many of the buyouts in the past have been for failing companies. When a company as large as Microsoft throws $25 billion onto the table, we have reason to question their motives.

Nintendo has been a leading provider with their flagship N64, ever since the Nintendo, Game Boy, Super Nintendo and now the Game Cube. While the market share has shrunk considerably with the choice provided by Sony's Playstation, you cannot discredit the meaning of the Nintendo brand.

The fact that Microsoft can, financially, simply scoop up these companies--albeit in unexplored markets (before the X-Box came about) really scares me. To think that the home entertainment world would be exposed to BSODs in their very own living room sickens me to death. Next thing you know, Microsoft demands 2/3 rack space on gaming shelves and a 60%+ size increase of the advertised X-Box logo over competitors (Canadians will recognize this inadvertant reference to Quebec's language advertisement policies).

So, while major distributors of games still make a great deal of their income from non-Microsoft games and sales of products from other giants such as Sony, Microsoft is relatively powerless to dictate what gets sold and where (see: Microsoft's power over OEMs, links too numerous to mention).

So...

Linux and UNIX groupies like you give the community a bad name.

This has nothing to do with Linux or UNIX. This is the gaming entertainment industry and an oversized, broken oil tanker leaking its decrepid monopoly resources upon a growing industry. Stick your unrelated platform opinions elsewhere.

And what was wrong with trying to buy Nintedo?

As I said, this is no ordinary company trying to buy Nintendo. While Microsoft has produced numerous PC games, the console industry, prior to the X-Box, is uncharted by Microsoft. Their purchase of one of the leading brand figures, based upon their monopoly, is theoretically disastrous.

so the product will be even better?

Even the most innate of /.'ers is familiar with Microsoft definition of "better". "What's good for us is good for the industry."

Do you accuse Saturn to rip off Ford because they're making cars.

Pick your fight with someone else. Until you've actually been to the dealer and have been showered by the unexpected attention they pay to their customers, keep your keys out of the ignition and your trunk shut.

Re:Typical M$

[Anonymous Coward]

If you can't beat 'em, buy 'em.

Reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer offers Internet access.

Re:Typical M$

[bmetz]

Pioneered my ass. It plainly said in the Netscape executable that the report-bugs-back-to-netscape technology was licensed from some other company. (This is to say nothing of the shitload of licensed technology in Netscape)

Welcome to the real world, where software engineering decisions involve deciding whether buying technology is a more soft effective idea than producing technology.

Re:Typical M$

[Anonymous Coward]

The rules changed once Microsoft was declared as a monopoly. We now have reason to believe that any buyout of Nintendo is simply a tactic for Microsoft to gain control of the gaming industry--not an attempt to improve this industry.

Of course, Microsoft does not have a monopoly in the video game industry, nor would buying Nintendo grant them a monopoly. There is a certain very powerful video game mfgr. Cough ... Sony ... cough.

Re:Typical M$

[Shivall]

He, of course, said it was a *tactic* to gain control of the industry, with Nintendo out of the way MS would only have Sony to deal with, which wouldn't be *too* difficult if they had the backing of Nintendo's numerous popular franchises plus their own franchises...They'd have the children's market cornered already, the adult industry is not too hard to crack into.

Re:Typical M$

[Anonymous Coward]

the report-bugs-back-to-netscape technology was licensed from some other company

Full Circle Software

Re:Typical M$

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I must have smoked some serious shit in the 1970's, I did not find out about the vax until unix was a stable, mature os. I must be fucking stupid for missing the vax since---as you say---it was around before unix.

BTY, UNIX is the anti-multics. Where Multics was complex, UNIX was simple. The only things that UNIX stole from multics was users.

Re:Typical M$

[Anonymous Coward]

Just another proof that the Simpsons will teach you everything you need to know about life.

Re:Typical M$

[LadyLucky]

Don't you realise, netscape was killed by microsoft, so we like netscape.

Since we like netscape, mere technical details such as the one you mention are selectively forgotten.

Please don't move our cheese!

Re:Typical M$

[Eil]

Yes, well these "x actually did y before z even thought of it" wars are quite common here, unfortunately, and I won't be dragged into one now.

Get over. Innovation is the art of bringing advancements to the populace. Unix has its fair share, and so has Microsoft.

I wouldn't be so perturbed if MS would at least acknowledge that many the features at hand existed before MS was even a company. (Let alone actually give credit.) They spin them off as being Yet Another Pioneering Microsoft Innovation.

Re:Typical M$

[Eil]

Come on, of course Microsoft has copied Unix. How could they not!!!

My problem with MS is not so much that they borrow many of their ideas (and even code) from other operating systems, rather that they do so and then proceed to spin it off as Yet Another Microsoft Innovation.

Considering their (now) very public anti-Unix stance, you'd think they wouldn't have anything to do with Unix. At all. But to this day, we keep seeing MS announcing New and Incredible Features and ideas that were either pioneered or made mainstream by Unix and other operating systems that have been around for decades. They even go so far as to "borrow" code (I think the Win2k/XP TCP/IP stack, not sure) from BSD and then spout about all the evilness that Unix must be.

Linux and UNIX groupies like you give the community a bad name.

I use Linux (and other unices or clones) because it suits me. Unix works for what I want it to do, and it works well. That makes me a groupie, eh? Might want to rethink that /. elistist attitude of yours. I'm not the anti-MS zealot that you attempt to paint me as.

I'm typing this in Windows XP right now, so obviously I must not have too much of a problem with Microsoft's products themselves. What I do disagree with is their actions as a corporation. There is so much potential for Microsoft to be an asset to the computing industry it's not funny, but so far, like every other major American corporation, they are consumed with greed. For both money and mindshare.

Re:Typical M$

[Eil]

From the Merriam-Webster OnLine Dictionary:

intransitive senses : to act as a pioneer
transitive senses
1 : to open or prepare for others to follow; also : SETTLE

I never said anywhere that I thought Netscape developed the full-circle reporting technology themselves. My definition coincides with the one pasted above. That they brought auto bug-reporting technology to the mainstream, just as a lot of Unix features and programs were never developed *for* Unix, but made their name because they were introduced into one form of Unix or another.

Welcome to the real world, where the unwashed masses can't see a monopoly and illegal or immoral business procedures even when it makes front-page news.

Re:Typical M$

[Tony-A]

UNIX was around long before the first VAX.
The point to Multics was security.
UNIX is software. VAX is hardware. I'm not at all sure how it could be possible for software to "borrow tons" from hardware.

The only things that UNIX stole from multics was users.
Might be more accurate so say that UNIX stole some excellent developers.
IIRC the only users that were stolen were the creators of UNIX.

Re:Typical M$

[JFMulder]

Okay okay, so I may have been a bit hard on you, I apologize. As for that ellitist attitude, well I dunno where you picked that up, since I'm honestly not that, and yes, I use WinXP too and wouldn't uninstall it even for a new version of Linux. In fact, I don't really like Linux/Unix for what it is right now. But I'm not a MS fanboy either. :-) I just was under the impression you were a Linux groupie. My bad. :-)

Re:Typical M$

[Eil]

I'm at fault for sterotyping you as well, it's just that I'm starting to tire of the slashdot community as a whole. That's where the "elitist" remark came from. I'm not going to make a big fuss about it here, but from the way things get moderated these days, I'm starting to think there is some kind of Mainstram Slashdot Collective Mind(tm) at work against anyone with a differing opinion, or anyone who voices obvious but unpopular statements of fact.

But worst yet, I'm fear I'm getting sucked into it as well.

Besides, despite what I said, I could tell you weren't that bad a guy from your sig. :)

Re:Typical M$

[Tony-A]

Somehow I think VMS would have troubles running on a PDP
64K should be enough for anybody, espectially if that's 64k data AND 64k program space.

Nintendo franchised reimagined by Microsoft...

[Navius Eurisko]

Super Mario Bros: "Hey, kids, itsa Mario! I wanna taka some time from da game, to tell you about the dangers of competition in da OS market. If da 9 US states of Bowser have their way, competition will enter da OS market and Yoshi willa die! Mama Mia!"

Pokemon: "Picachoo just evolved into the most stable, user friendly, Pokemon ever: XPachoo!"

Legend of Zelda: "Link, Hyrule can only be saved from the evil free office suite spread by Ganon by gathering the three pieces of Mircosoft Office to form the triad!"

Re:Nintendo franchised reimagined by Microsoft...

[macshit]

Better yet, a version of Super Smash Brothers featuring Clippy! Seeing how much people complain about him, there are probably millions of people willing to buy the system if they'd get get a chance to beat the little bastard to a pulp, again, and again, and again.

[Maybe that's the killer app the xbox needs ... they could start a whole subgenre of `torture clippy' games ... `Clippy Tied to a Post Knife Party'... ]

Re:Nintendo franchised reimagined by Microsoft...

[ink]

That would be the one thing that would get me to buy an X-Box; I'd love to pit that Office Dog against Einstein or the Clippy. They could have special key combinations to unlock their "productivity" powers: Clippy could open a can of printer-spooling whoop-ass by sucking his opponent into the printing animation of his.

Re:Nintendo franchised reimagined by Microsoft...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Clippit you bastard! My wife created him, and also that damn stupid dog in the XP search wizard! ...on the other hand, if I tell her that we're making a game based on one of her (heinous) creations, then I'm gonna score tonight (for the first time in 6 years, oh yeah!) I'm well-hung, you bet, just like Windows Me!

-Bill "Vaginal Explorer" Gates

An offtopic question (re: Germany)

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there serious sentiment in Germany to ban all violent video games due to the recent tragedy? I know Slashdot readers will not support such a measure, but I am wondering if anyone has insight into the opinions of the general populace.

(Of course this is offtopic, but unless JonKatz posts a story about this I have no where else to ask.)

Re:An offtopic question (re: Germany)

[Anonymous Coward]

(Of course this is offtopic, but unless JonKatz posts a story about this I have no where else to ask.)

Haha! good one.

Re:An offtopic question (re: Germany)

[Anonymous Coward]

Germans are influenced by Video Games? What kind of game was Hitler playing?

Re:An offtopic question (re: Germany)

[Fat Casper]

I'm impressed. You managed to use "insight" and "opinions of the general populace" in the same sentance while keeping a straight face. Just keep on holding your breath- Jon Katz ought to put your question on the front page next friday or so.

Re:An offtopic question (re: Germany)

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? They're the stars of Wolf 3D and RTCW.

Re:An offtopic question (re: Germany)

[Anonymous Coward]

what I think is funny is that nutcase down in mass that shot up his office a couple years ago. He was finally convicted last week. His defense was that he was insane, and thought he time travelled back to nazi germany and was shooting nazis.

methinks he spent too many nights playing wolfenstein until 6 am ...

Re:An offtopic question (re: Germany)

[ronfar]

You mean where they already ban all "violent" games, that Germany?

This will more likely lead to a crackdown on illegal guns as guns are already strictly controlled in Germany as well.

Re:An offtopic question (re: Germany)

[Anopheles]

Is there serious sentiment? I think so, they've been banning violent games for years. They also have extremely strict gun laws, including a very long background check on all people who want to buy a gun.

Hmm. Making violent games illegal didn't help. Making guns hard to get didn't help. What's left? Helping the kid out before they go crazy and wack off their school? Nah... Maybe we can ban something else. Maybe we can blame his parents. That way we can rest assured we don't have to do anything to prevent this from happening again.

Internationally..

[Anonymous Coward]

..this would only have helped put MS ahead in the game. Outside of North America, XBox sales are weak (to say the least). It goes to reason, however, that with the Nintendo name behind the console (including the good hardware/game engineering that goes into Nintendo products) that the Japanese and European markets would have taken MS' offering a little more seriously.

Other Codenames Considered....

[shr3k]

The fact that the initial code name was Project Midway -- they don't want the Japanese people to know that because it will hurt their feelings."

Well, it could have been worse. Project Hiroshima anyone? It will obliterate the competition!

Re:Other Codenames Considered....

[AnimeFreak]

Project Nagasaki would be the successor.

Re:Other Codenames Considered....

[red_dragon]

If they had named it Project Yamato, it'd have been a sinker...

Re:Other Codenames Considered....

[doorbot.com]

Project Hiroshima anyone?

Are you sure that wasn't the XBOX code name?

You know, starts with a big bang, but just leads to a slow, horrible death.

Re:Other Codenames Considered....

[Loligo]

>Project Yamato

As long as it included a wave-motion drive...

-l

Hmmmm...

[NickRob]

Makes you wonder if Halo would've been as disappointing.

Re:Hmmmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

Halo? Disappointing? Did I read that right?

Re:Hmmmm...

[Mastagunna]

What do you expect when you release a 3 year old game. I remeber, when Microsoft bought bungee, a game show had a clip of the Bungee people playing Halo on thier PCs, its funny that you still can't play it now, and it will never be on a Mac.

Re:Hmmmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just correcting a persistent misconception here. Halo was first demonstrated on an iBook at MacWorld Expo.
Jason Jones has REPEATEDLY confirmed that Halo will be released for Mac and PC. Believe me he's getting tired of repeating it. May I remind you that Microsoft also ports games to the Mac ?

PC version will use DirectX, Mac version will use OpenGL, that's about as much that is known so far.

Thank God

[NSupremo]

That this did not happen.

Buy the GOOD stuff up and make people buy SHIT. That's microsofts motto.

Re:Thank God

[Anonymous Coward]

Or, just pretend you can do better. That's the Linux motto.

Thank God.

[Tokerat]

Without going into a huge rant here, I'll express my thankfulness that this did not happen.

THERE IS A GOD.

I got into computers with the hope of one day becomming a programmer for a game company, hopefully Nintendo. If MS had bought them out I'd have found an alternative employer. The Bungie buyout was disapointing enough...

Re:Thank God.

[Melantha_Bacchae]

Tokerat wrote:

> Without going into a huge rant here, I'll express my thankfulness that
> this did not happen.
>
> THERE IS A GOD.

Indeed, we must give thanks and praise to the Dreaded God who rose out of Tokyo Bay in December of 1999 to roar in his divine wrath at Microsoft, and put his sacred foot down on this deal.

After what happened in Tokai three months earlier (search Google for "Tokai", "nuclear" and "accident"), I doubt even the mighty Nintendo would refuse to listen to Godzilla.

What happens when you embrace and extend Godzilla? Nuclear heartburn!
See "Godzilla 2000" (released in Japan as "Godzilla 2000 Millenium") for details.

Shigeru Miyamoto

[alphaseven]

Why didn't they just offer a tenth of that 25 billion to Miyamoto? He's the Steven Spielberg of video games, and he'd be the primary boon for buying Nintendo (aside from the Pokemon liscense).

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[Anonymous Coward]

alphaseven writes:

Miyamoto? He's the Steven Spielberg of video games

Are you saying Miyamoto is a Jew?

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[Anonymous Coward]

miyamoto will never sell out!

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[kubrick]

He's the Steven Spielberg of video games

Hardly high praise in my book. I'd rather buy games by the Orson Welles or Robert Altman of video games (any ideas? :)

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi. I'm Ralph JewHater Nader and I'm a total fuckhead! I post idiotic racist trolls to a blog; hardly anyone ever reads them though because I'm permanantly stuck posting at -1! What? Don't I have something better to do with my time, you ask?? Why hell no, I don't have a job since I'm still in 8th grade and I don't have no friends since I'm too fat and kinda stinky. I ain't a-got the brainz god gave a pissant! But what the fuk!! I don't need no friends or icky girls since I got me goat.cx and rotten.com! Uh-oh--I feelz me a fart comin' on--*P000000000000T!* WEEE DOGGIE that was a wet one!!

Fucking idiot.

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[mshiltonj]

I would prefer a Stanley Kubrick video game.

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[kubrick]

I'm ignoring the possibilities under my own nose. :)

His movies were always about dehumanization though, and video games are often dehumanizing enough anyway... still, a psychological horror game that replicated the experiences of 'The Shining' would be a thing of beauty if done well :)

I think I particularly mentioned Welles and Altman (and Kubrick qualifies in this sphere as well) because of their artifice; their mastery of the technology and their bending of it to artistic (and sometimes commercial) purposes. I'm mainly bored by Spielberg's work because those two categories seem to be reversed, and because the artistic purpose is often a cloying and contrived/sentimentalist one.

Given the production budgets for video games these days, I predict we'll be seeing more of these comparisons, not less...

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[hazyshadeofwinter]

Look at the gate receipts of the most recent Speilberg, Altman and Kubrick flix. Then tell me which one you'd want to hire if you were Microsoft.

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[kubrick]

Does AI: Artificial Intelligence count? :)

For a company whose stated ambition was to make video games have the experiences of movies like 'Run Lola Run' and 'The Blair Witch Project', this sounds like a dodge back to the mainstream -- but then the similarity between XBox and PC means that there will be a cultural similarity to the games, with many appearing on one followed by the other (see a cite for that quote here -- I can't find the original article on Gamespot) (this sounds more like the MTV of video games to me, but hardly overly mainstream fare -- even if only because TBWP was so badly shot it was unwatchable).

Besides, look at the costs of production of the most recent Spielberg, Altman and Kubrick films. Could it be that Microsoft would prefer to make more games more cheaply and win a better reputation among hardcore gamers -- something that could be just as important in the long term to the overall success of the platform as initial big-game hype? They can afford to hire all three anyway :)

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[Anonymous Coward]

He already did. He works for Nintendo, remember? They're up there on my "most hated companies" list right next to Di$ney, Nike, Monsanto, and Rogers Communications...

Re:Shigeru Miyamoto

[alphaseven]

Hmm, Alexy Pajitnov would be the Orson Welles of video games (one great game, Tetris, but then what?). Hideo Kojima is the Kubrick of video games (technically excellent, but good luck making sense of it). Hironobu Sakaguchi might be the James Cameron of video games (epics with lots of action with a sappy love story, every time).

If you're looking for art, check out ICO for Playstation2, whoever designed that is the Tarkovsky of video games.

we are

[EricBoyd]

Microsoft of Borg. Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated into our "XBox" plans...

Websurfing done right! StumbleUpon

Re:we are

[kz45]

Microsoft of Borg. Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated into our "XBox" plans

if you think about it, linux is more like the borg than microsoft is (they are more like the klingons).

the borg: they all work together as one, to create a super-force.

Re:we are

[Dave_bsr]

Yeah, but we don't beat people up to make them assimilated. Microsoft is like the blob, eating and consuming and sucking up everything. haha. sucking. some reason, i'm not laughing too much.

we're like the People's Coalition of Peaceful Forces. We will protect you, provided you help protect us. GPL baby, yeah. We aren't that big but we are growing. Microsoft is the current, abusive monstrosity, that is consuming and crushing and harming the people, but for now it may be easier to stay in the Kingdom of Microsoft than running away. But we're still getting refugees.

Re:we are

[Anonymous Coward]

You use Hotmail, you moron!

That is helping Microsoft, you dimwit!

Re:we are

[Dave_bsr]

You use Hotmail, you moron!
That is helping Microsoft, you dimwit!

Hmm. So using their bandwidth, blocking their ads, and generally screwing with their system is *helping* them? ok...

I guess you could argue that i count as a user. but htey count dead accounts anyways, so why not just sit here and keep using it?

MS ... patent infringment

[Anonymous Coward]

IIRC, "MS" was patented by capcom for the creation of "MS. Pacman"

Uhm, come to think of it, "MS. PacMan" is an oxymoron that congures scarry thoughts on the internet. "PacWoman" would've sufficed, not "MS. PacMan" (transexual thought).

Re:MS ... patent infringment

[neafevoc]

I thought the Pacman franchise was owned by Namco, not Pacman.

And it was called Puckman before it hit the States. I wonder what made them wanna change it... :)

Re:MS ... patent infringment

[dirkdidit]

I believe we all know the story about how kids would go to local arcades and scratch part of the marquee off so that the P in puck would become the F in, well you know the word..;)

SuperMicrosoftWorld

[meth88]

Its a mee!!! Microsoft Bawb!!!!

Re:SuperMicrosoftWorld

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, that is just obscure on two too many levels :).

~~~

Re:SuperMicrosoftWorld

[Dave_bsr]

I get it. I laughed. *high-five*.

Nintendo didn't need the money

[Alien54]

The GameCube Eurpoe Site had a short story on this earlier:

www.cube-europe.com/news/10198973416591.html

This sound bite is the best:

When interviewing Nintendo's U.S president Minoru Arakawa, he let slip that Nintendo 'weren't sure what to think when Microsoft made the offer.'' He continued with the commments "I was surprised, we didn't need the money. I thought it was a joke."

sums it up nicely for me

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[56ker]

Yes - it does throw Microsoft's strategy into a tailspin when the company rejects their offer to be taken over. Then they go to plan B - offer a similar product for free at a vastly reduced price (or free) - force them out of business - then you have a monopoly!

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[blank]

i hope you are right. i wouldn't mind having a free XBOX. i could use it for spare parts to retrofit the dreamcast that i have laying around.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[56ker]

The bringing out for free refers to software eg bundling IE with Windows. They wouldn't give away hardware because it would be economic suicide!

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[NanoGator]

"Then they go to plan B - offer a similar product for free at a vastly reduced price (or free) - force them out of business - then you have a monopoly! "

Harldy a winning strategy. If MS were to drop the price of the XBOX, they'd go DEEPER into the hole on each machine sold. As it is, it costs like $400 or $500 to build one of the machines. Nintendo, however, is either close to break even point, or even making a profit on their $200 machine.

MS cannot legally undercut the price of the XBOX, it's called 'Dumping'. The FTC would strangle them over it. (In theory, so far the US gov't doesn't seem too wild about telling MS no to anything.) I vaguely remember Atari threatening to sue Sony over it when the Playstation was announced to be $200 (I think it was released at $300, though...) for similar reasons. (Anybody remember that?)

Nintendo could easily afford to drop the price of the Gamecube even farther. It'd either be extremely bold or extremely stupid of MS to try to get into a price war with them. That's not MS's biggest problem though.

XBOX just doesn't have the winning titles yet. There are some okay games for it, but they really need a Miyamoto on their side. One of the things that kind of drove me away from being a game player is the lack of imagination and thought being put into games. If MS were smart, they'd drag out every Miyamoto and RARE game ever made and devote a group to figuring out why they're fun. Then, they need to set up a division intended to make games like these. (not copy them, I mean continue the spirit of them.)

MS would be smart to make better games, that'd be a far better strategy than trying to beat them at price. That is unless they start giving away XBOX's along with the purchase of Gateway PC's....

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[56ker]

"Harldy a winning strategy. If MS were to drop the price of the XBOX, they'd go DEEPER into the hole on each machine sold." - yes but they know that even if they make a loss in the short term - selling more machines now will result in greater profits in the long term - and Microsoft aren't short of a bob or two - or are they looking to make a quick buck! "MS cannot legally undercut the price of the XBOX" - ha! They can sell it at whatever price they like - they've already reduced the price in the past few days by £100 in the U.K. - and in Europe, and in Australia!

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[I didn't]

XBOX just doesn't have the winning titles yet.

They already have one...... called *Monopoly*.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[byran lei]

> quick buck! "MS cannot legally undercut the price of the XBOX" - ha!
>They can sell it at whatever price they like - they've already reduced
>the price in the past few days by £100 in the U.K. - and in Europe,
>and in Australia!
>
>
Sounds more like a demand by their retail "partners" to cut the price of XBoxes so they can unload the backstock piled up in their warehouses.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[Anonymous Coward]

I was under the impression that dumping (at least as it pertains to the FTC) was when the product in question is sold in the United States at a significantly lower price than it is sold in other countries. At least that's what the interview with the Atari guy in Next Generation several years back lead me to believe.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[NanoGator]

Ooops... now that I think about it, I think you're right...

Sorry for the misinfo!

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[Guppy06]

"Harldy a winning strategy. If MS were to drop the price of the XBOX, they'd go DEEPER into the hole on each machine sold. As it is, it costs like $400 or $500 to build one of the machines. Nintendo, however, is either close to break even point, or even making a profit on their $200 machine."

Even if Nintendo isn't at the break even point yet, remember that the GameCube is 66% of the price of the XBox, so dollar-for-dollar Nintendo gets more market penetration than XBox.

"MS would be smart to make better games, that'd be a far better strategy than trying to beat them at price."

Making better games is only part of it. You also need a large library in general to really make money. If you have a large library with many companies developing for you, you're more likely to find some real gems in that library.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[Yorrike]

I don't know what MS was trying to pull here. Nintendo makes money hand over fist. Add to this, that they'd be negotiating the purchase with Hiroshi Yamuchi, the iron fist immovable object at the head of Nintendo, and you've really got to wonder why they bothered.

Nintendo HAS ITS OWN MONOPOLY. It's called the Gameboy/Gameboy Advance and it owns 98% of the handheld gaming market worldwide. Pokemon had pulled in billions for Nintendo, and with the release of a GBA Pokemon in the next year, there's billions more just waiting in the wing.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[NanoGator]

"Making better games is only part of it. You also need a large library in general to really make money. If you have a large library with many companies developing for you, you're more likely to find some real gems in that library.

I agree, sort of at least. I think Nintendo has proven that's not an unbreakable law. The Nintendo 64 was creamed by Playstation in terms of how many games were available. Yet, the N64 still made Nintendo a good deal of cash that they aren't complaining about. They were #2 to Sony in terms of how many ppl have a PS vs. N64, but Nintendo still got a good dosage of cash. Why? Because Nintendo also made some killer games for the N64 that sold really well. (With some help from Pokemon for the Game Boy)

Nintendo is in the unique situation where no matter how popular another console is, they still have an audience that'll follow them around. They'll still make oodles of money provided they keep their standards up.

Sega was in that position to an extent, unfortunately they relied on rehasing Sonic and Virtua Fighter a little too much. (I don't care what anybody says, a Mario sequal is always incredibly different from it's predecessors. Sonic games were essentially an extension of previous games.) They had a loyal audience, but they blew it.

Sony doesn't have that. Microsoft doesn't have that. Niether company does any interesting in-house games. That will hurt them in the long run. Nobody has any real reason to stick with Sony or MS. Final Fantasy 7 was a good reason to have a PS back in the 95 gaming era, but Sony no longer has that exclusive today. You'll be able to play an FF sequal on another platform before too long, but you'll never play a Mario game on Sony or XBOX.

Consider that for a bit. Nintendo is likely to always be successful, even if they're #2 to somebody else. But the #1 place will always be up for grabs. It might have been Sony last time, but it could be anybody this time.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank God for Hiroshi Yamauchi!

But Hiroshi Yamauchi, the aging CEO and Nintendo, didn't like the idea. By January 2000, the talks were over.

Nintendo needs that stubborn, brilliant old man, I don't know what will happen when he retires, but it makes me nervous. (It would make me more nervous if I were a stockholder.)

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[cheinonen]

Atari's complaints about the Playstation price (which were in an interview in Next Generation magazine a long time ago) dealt with the fact that the Playstation was originally around $400 in Japan before it came out in the US, and the US price was going to be $300. However, Sony redesigned the Japanese version (manufacturing techniques constantly improve on console, the Playstation 2 is on it's 5th revision already) and lowered the price in Japan to $300, which means it would no longer be dumping in the US. If the XBox was $100 everywhere in the world, they can sell it for that in the US. They can give it away if they want, just they can't give it away in the US and then sell it for $500 in Europe.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[blank]

thanks for the clarification.

still, i'd rather have a free xbox. i agree that it would be a pretty stupid thing for MS to do [therefore i really am wishful that they do it].

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[56ker]

All eyes are on Sony now to see if they'll lower the price of the PS2 now that it's the same price as the X-Box - both more expensive than the Gamecube and Gameboy Advance.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[ArthurKing]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the onus to develop games does not necessarily fall on Microsoft. They spent a great deal of time and resources building a console that is quite analagous to the atom bomb, as far as obliteration of the competition goes. With a geForce3, PIII at seven hundred someodd MHz, and a very large hard drive, the XBox is the most powerful device on the market today. Furthermore, the XBox OS apparently uses APIs that are so close to those used in Windows, porting would be child's play for a large software company. Of course, the advantage of hardware-specific optimization is an obvious one but one that is even more significant when one is discussing such insanely powerful hardware.

Microsoft may be losing some money on the consoles, but it will be compensated for in the long run. Nintendo can cut the prices all they like, but they still could never rival the sheer power of the XBox console, and the potential for games to be developed in the future makes the system the better choice, by far. Also, Microsoft can afford to sell the XBox at a higher price because their target market is quite different from Nintendo's. The GameCube, based upon the power (or lack thereof), the controllers (the odd shape fits a child's hand much easier than an adult's), and the types of games that are primarily developed for the 'Cube, seems to be marketing towards the younger ages. The XBox, based on those things and more, seems to be geared towards adults.

Granted, this was a bit off topic, but I would still like to post it as a general rebuttal to the GC fanatics that exist. Sorry about that.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[NanoGator]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the onus to develop games does not necessarily fall on Microsoft.

Yes, you are wrong. As I stated in my previous post, MS's ability to create a stable market for future systems is based on keeping their existing market share and expanding it. The only way they can do that is games. If the games that were good on the XBOX aren't avaialble *and* better on their following system, there's little incentive to buy the next MS game machine. Why do you think Nintendo is still very strong, but Sega nearly collapsed? If MS doesn't have first party games to populate their system and nobody else's, what's to stop somebody else from coming in and beating them?

"With a geForce3, PIII at seven hundred someodd MHz, and a very large hard drive, the XBox is the most powerful device on the market today"

The truth of the matter is that the XBOX isn't decidedly more powerful than the GameCube. Developers have flat out said that the GC excels in some areas that the XBOX doesn't, and vice versa. You cannot look at a GC game and an XBOX game and know which system it is running on. The XBOX's processor is 700 mhz, and the GC's is 400. Is the XBOX's processor nearly twice as powerful as GC's? No. It's kind of like comparing a Mac processor to an Intel one. The Intel one has faster clock speed, but the Mac can still keep up.

The GC, right now, is $199 and the XBOX is $299. There is not a 50% performance increase on the XBOX even though it's 50% more expensive. The hard drive is a nice feature, but so far it hasn't been used for anything that interesting. Though I may draw criticism for that comment, I see it right now as another thing on the machine that can break. It's a hell of a memory card, though.

"the controllers (the odd shape fits a child's hand much easier than an adult's), "

Okay, first off, DUH it's intended for the younger audience. Secondly, though your comment is basically correct, I as an adult have no troubles with the controller. Personally, I find it more preferable to the XBOX controller. However, this is a matter of taste.

The GC is a very good game machine supported by a very good game company. The XBOX certainly has potential, but it needs games to reach that potential. MS does not have a Miyamoto making games for it. Most of the games on the XBOX today are either fighting or racing games. Where are the fun original games? Like or hate Nintendo style games, they are definitely more inspired. That is why Nintendo can defy the rules of game marketing.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[ArthurKing]

You cannot look at a GC game and an XBOX game and know which system it is running on
Actually, I would refute this. I have seen games like Luigi's Mansion running on the Cube, and the fact of the matter is that the graphics are rather poor quality. When looking at the characters as they walk near to a light source, you can see clear distinctions between the shading... er.. zones. That is to say, you can see that there is a region of brightness, followed by a clear boundry, followed by a darker region, another boundry, et cetera. Compare that to Halo, and, well, all I can say is that it's over. I have a GC advocate sitting next to me who says that I can't compare it to Halo. So let's compare it to Blood Omen 2, Morrowind, Max Payne, or any other game, really.

The XBOX certainly has potential, but it needs games to reach that potential
This page has a list of every wonderful game being developed for the XBox, and most anyone will begin to drool when reading the page. I haven't seen games this good since Pong. All you have to do is give it a year, and most of these games will be hitting the shelves. You've got to admit that you'd like to be playing these with a system that can do so much.

Re:Nintendo didn't need the money

[NanoGator]

"Actually, I would refute this. I have seen games like Luigi's Mansion running on the Cube, and the fact of the matter is that the graphics are rather poor quality"

You picked the worst graphic game on GC and compared it to the best graphic game on XBOX, heh. Why don't you go take a look at Rogue Squadron? That game is an excellent example of the power that GC houses. Frankly, I'd rather play Luigi's Mansion anyway. I'm thoroughly sick of running around killing monsters. Been there. Done that.

"This page [xbox.com] has a list of every wonderful game being developed for the XBox, and most anyone will begin to drool when reading the page. I haven't seen games this good since Pong.

Heh, I found this comment amusing. That's not a list of 'good games', it's a list of "Games in Development". As a matter of fact, that list is very similar to games in development for PS2 and GameCube. Very few, if any, of those games are XBOX exclusives. Know what that means? It means that the decision between buying an XBOX, PS2, or GC is decided by a gamble as to which system will provide you with the most games that you want.

And no, I don't drool over them. I have enough experience with games on previous systems (PSONE, for example...) to know that nearly every one of those games will be mediochre at best. Derivitive, derivitive, Derivitive. If you're not running around shooting monsters, you're racing, fighting, or playing a sport. YAWN.

Now, driving this post back into my original point, that decision will likely be based on potential power of the system, the features of the system, or the price of it. That could be in Microsoft's favor in this round, but all bets are off when the next generation of game systems come into being. If MS gets overly zealous like Sony did, their next system could very easily be inferior, power wise, to their competitors. The PS2 has a nasty bottleneck that automatically makes it's games noticably blurrier than any of their competitors' (including Dreamcast, out a year earlier...), lack of VRAM. They have to halve their vertical resolution and interpolate it back in order to have RAM for other things to do. Blurry blurry blurry.

See my point now? There's very little keeping you interesting in buying the next MS machine that comes out. Now, if MS were to emulate Nintendo by creating their own in house games (note: These have to be AAA titles, not just the regurgitated crap most companies produce), then you have the comfort of knowing that MS's next system will carry over that tradition. Even if the other systems have games that you want, MS will still be making games that you'll likely be interested in.

It is for this reason that Nintendo has a mobile audience, willing to absorb anything they produce. It's not because we're all idiots. I know that if Miyamoto makes a game, it'll be cool. I know that if RARE makes a game, it'll be cool. Back in the SNES days, if Square made a game, I know it'd be cool.

Does anyone see...

[hackwrench]

the existence of the X-Box weakening sales for Nintendo making it more susceptible if Microsoft should want to buy them later?

Re:Does anyone see...

[Hyperfrog]

No.. mostly because M$ is an outsider trying to break in while Nintendo is THE platform (no Mario puns intended) from which consoles sprung. Oh, the X-box will have an impact, after all some people are buying them.. but at the end of the day (oh, as such, at the end of the E3):
The biggest games console nation is: Japan.
The best place to try and take over the world of consoles: Japan.
Who just turned down M$? Nintendo.
Who gets bigger and more powerful because of their toehold? Nintendo.

Oh.. and a last point: M$ must realise that as soon as their name is on something many people will go 'urg! Microsoft! no!'

Game over M$, you are the weakest link, Goodbye!

Who Microsoft SHOULD Buy

[Rayonic]

Enix.

You've heard of them, right? They put out that little Dragon Quest/Warrior series, the seventh of which is the all-time best selling game in Japan. Heck, there's even a Japanese law saying that Enix can only release a new DQ game on a weekend, because otherwise millions of kids/adults will skip school/work just to get their hands on it ASAP and play it all day.

Even the mere announcement that the next Dragon Quest game will be an Xbox exclusive would guarantee the console's success in Japan. It's like Japanese gamers wouldn't have a choice in the matter. They'd need Dragon Quest 8, and thus they would need an Xbox, no matter what.

Re:Who Microsoft SHOULD Buy

[ShadowDrgn]

In the entire life of the Playstation, Enix only managed one new Dragon Quest release. It's taking them 3-4 years between them while other rpg companies are cranking out almost one per year and still maintaining high quality. Sure they don't individually sell as much as a DQ game, but I'm sure Square is very happy with their total sales of FF7-9. The point here is that no news about DQ8 has been released, and with Enix's delay record, sites are anticipating the next sequel to be sometime in 2004. The XBox needs something a bit sooner to survive in Japan.

Re:Who Microsoft SHOULD Buy

[Rayonic]

I know it'll take a while before DQ8 sees the light of day, but the mere announcement of a DQ8 exclusive would create a whole lot of positive vibes for the Xbox. Add to that a few announced-but-missed release dates and the possibility of MS hurrying them along (with cash, etc.), and you're looking at whole lot of sold X-boxen.

Not saying that it's right, but it's what they should do.

Re:Who Microsoft SHOULD Buy

[ShadowDrgn]

Positive vibes? It would probably cause a riot unlike anything Japan has ever seen. :)

Re:Who Microsoft SHOULD Buy

[byran lei]

>Even the mere announcement that the next Dragon Quest game will be an
>Xbox exclusive would guarantee the console's success in Japan. It's
>like Japanese gamers wouldn't have a choice in the matter. They'd need
>Dragon Quest 8, and thus they would need an Xbox, no matter what.
>
Don't make me laugh. This would not generate a bit of interest in the XBox. All it would do is cause Enix to loose face in the Japanese gaming community. Microsoft has made a lot of enemies there by their shitty treatment of their complants about the XBox scratching DVD's.

Re:Who Microsoft SHOULD Buy

[Anonymous Coward]

If MS gets Enix as a developer for their console only, millions of gamers are going to commit seppuku.

Re:Who Microsoft SHOULD Buy

[Yorrike]

Enix has gone on record saying that DQ8 would be released on the most popular game console. Which at the moment looks like the PS2. As much as I'd love it to come out on the GC.

Furthermore, Enix will gear the release towards the Japanese market. Even if they decided not to go for the PS2, they'd look toward the GameCube (If Mario and Zelda GC take GC sales through thr roof for example), the XBox launch in Japan was a complete disaster.

Re:Who Microsoft SHOULD Buy

[bla]

In the entire life of the Playstation, Enix only managed one new Dragon Quest release. It's taking them 3-4 years between them while other rpg companies are cranking out almost one per year and still maintaining high quality. Sure they don't individually sell as much as a DQ game, but I'm sure Square is very happy with their total sales of FF7-9.

hang on there, honey. i don't know a single RPGamer that would categorize FF7 or 8 as "high quality." and don't even get us started about the travesties that were the PC ports. DQ games take a while to develop and sell more individually because they are a different (and, many argue, better) style from, to continue your example, Square's more recent FF games.

N.B. for the purposes of this post, a RPGamer is assumed to be someone who mostly plays and has played RPGs and plays them for enjoyment of the true role-playing aspect. the ones who whine about how fighting for stats in a fantasy world does not a RPG make.

Re:Who Microsoft SHOULD Buy

[Nicolay77]

Its me?

Or I see that slashdot is giving good ideas to M$ more often that what I would really desire...

Please help us

I suppose ...

[theCyde]

I suppose that the "X-Cube" was never meant to be.

assimilate!

[mister sticky]

methinks this article should be under the 'Microsoft' topic.
Just think if this buyout had gone through...
gamecube? ..hmmmmm

anway.. this reminds me of a good ol' borg joke

Q: How many Borg does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: All of them.

Pikachu for MS Office

[famazza]

If MS had bought Nintendo then Pikachu could be an MS Office Assistent.

THAT would be cool.

Re:Pikachu for MS Office

[compwiz3688]

One problem. Clip will still talk to you in English (thank God!), but Pikachu might keep telling you to Pika Pika Pikachu.

Re:Pikachu for MS Office

[foniksonik]

I don't know... that might be more helpful.

Re:Pikachu for MS Office

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but Pikachu never would stay in a poke ball.

Re:Pikachu for MS Office

[Anonymous Coward]

"Pika Pika Pikachu" would certainly be a lot more helpful!

MS is One F***ed Up Company

[BurritoWarrior]

According to the artivle, the Xbox project was originally called project Midway????

They have got to be kidding, naming a project after the naval battle in WWII that turned the tide in the Pacific. Thus, in MS' mind, they are "at war" with the Japanese over the game console industry and hope to "turn the tide" with the Xbox.

How utterly distatsteful to people who gave their lives in such battles, and how *especially* disgusting and disrespectful that must be to the Japanese.

I am dumbfounded. How about Toyota calling the next Camry project Pearl Harbor.

Microsoft continually amazes and disgusts me beyond belief.

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[Anonymous Coward]

They should have called it Hiroshima, or maybe Nagasaki.

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[Anonymous Coward]

"Midway" could refer to the "Bally/Midway" company that brought us Pac Man, etc.

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[phillymjs]

According to the artivle, the Xbox project was originally called project Midway????

I don't remember the details exactly, and came up empty after 5 minutes of Googling, but...

Years ago, a WWII veteran either sued or just caused a big stink because he bought a VCR made by a Japanese company (Panasonic, I believe). What upset him so was that the manual's example for setting the date and time showed the date being set to December 7 (Pearl Harbor Day, for the especially dense), and this offended him.

~Philly

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[EuroChild]

This reminds me of that South Park episode with the chinpokomon game:

"Try to bomb the Pearl Harbour!"

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[pod]

December 7 (Pearl Harbor Day, for the especially dense)

Or for the non-Americans. Or the youngins, who, were it not for Pearl Harbour The Movie, would have no idea what happened on Dec 7.

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[Anonymous Coward]

Midway is no doubt related to the funpark/carnival games area/street, which is usually called the midway. Or it could be named after Midway the company that bought some Japanese game properties.

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you even read the book? It spells out the reasons for the name pretty clearly. For the record, he's right and you're wrong.

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[wackybrit]

It's hardly 'sick' or 'disrespectful'.

If you're French and you catch a train to the UK via the Channel Tunnel, what London station do you arrive at? Yeah. Waterloo! Funny thing is, no-one has really commented on it yet.

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[SuiteSisterMary]

The Xbox is 'mid way' between a computer and a console.

Re:MS is One F***ed Up Company

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're wanting to have typed:

'Did you get the fax.'

Seriously, it seems like you guys will believe whole-cloth anything anti-Microsoft and will doubt anything anybody ever says anywhere that might be even slightly pro-Microsoft.

I kind of get a kick out of how 'They are a Monopoly, cut and dried' seems to no longer carry much weight in an arguement.

what an idiotic comment

[Anonymous Coward]

if you actually look at how business in america work, you would know that's microsoft's not the only company that buys a lot of other companies.
Mergers and Aquisitions are a very important tool for strong growth. It works out for both parties, and it saves the time and hassle of doing the same thing in-house.
Microsoft has actually been very smart with this, compared to bunches of other companies in the dotcom boom days. They didn't overpay for some shitty startup company.

Whew!

[phillymjs]

Thank God this deal didn't go through. The combined evil of Microsoft and Nintendo would have reached critical mass, collapsed inward on itself and formed a black hole that would surely have destroyed us all.

Years ago, after reading about all the shifty crap that Nintendo pulled in this book, I started thinking of them as the Microsoft of Japan. Price fixing, exclusivity deals with retailers to lock out competitors, the lockout chip feature in their carts, lots of different stuff. Nintendo and Microsoft already have a lot of similar pages in their respective playbooks.

Microsoft was probably salivating at the thought of having a viselike grip on people's lives from the time they fire up their first video game as a kid, until the final time they turn off their PC before going on to die in their sleep later that night. Luckily for us, the X-Box is proving to be an also-ran, so we won't have to worry about it.

~Philly

Re:Whew!

[JMMurphy]

Years ago, after reading about all the shifty crap that Nintendo pulled in this book [amazon.com], I started thinking of them as the Microsoft of Japan. Price fixing, exclusivity deals with retailers to lock out competitors, the lockout chip feature in their carts, lots of different stuff. Nintendo and Microsoft already have a lot of similar pages in their respective playbooks.

Remarkably, Nintendo has still managed to release games and systems that were of very high quality. I'm sure there are a number of MS haters who would quickly forgive them if Windows and various other products weren't so horrifically bad.

Not to mention the fact, of course, that Nintendo has done very little to stifle any actualy competition in the console market (outside of the average, everyday stuff, of course). Price fixing and required licensing of third party software is fairly standard.

As far as exclusivity deals with retailers... Hah. First of all, Sony has used a number of strongarm tactics itself. Secondly, a number of retailers refused to carry Nintendo products, because of policy disagreement, (I believe TRUS was one, though I'm not sure) and came *crawling* back once they realized the sales that they were losing. Nintendo didn't necessarily force themselves on anyone, but ended up being mutually beneficial to both parties.

random

Re:Whew!

[SuiteSisterMary]

Nintendo and Microsoft already have a lot of similar pages in their respective playbooks.

ALL companies read from the same playbook. Just to (perhaps vastly) different degrees.

Re:Whew!

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Not to mention the fact, of course, that Nintendo has done very little to stifle any actualy competition in the console market (outside of the average, everyday stuff, of course). Price fixing and required licensing of third party software is fairly standard.

Yes, but is it fair? Before Nintendo, there was a free market in videogames.

A developer could port to any system they wished, at their discretion. Now it has become the norm that the developer must pay the hardware vendor for the priveledge to write software for their system. This approach opened the door to price fixing and non-compete clauses in the videogame market, in addition to stifiling homebrew development.

I know that many Slashdotters grew up on Nintendo, but *they are* the Microsoft of the videogame world.

Fuzzy

Re:Whew!

[JMMurphy]

Yes, but is it fair? Before Nintendo, there was a free market in videogames.

It should be noted that the free video game market failed and Nintendo revitalized it

A developer could port to any system they wished, at their discretion. Now it has become the norm that the developer must pay the hardware vendor for the priveledge to write software for their system. This approach opened the door to price fixing and non-compete clauses in the videogame market, in addition to stifiling homebrew development.

There was somewhat of a resurgence in this style of market, with the release of the Playstation. However, the overall effect seems to be similar to what happened in the early eighties - More and more games are released, lowering the profit margin for everyone; The ratio of good to bad software is terrible; It becomes increasingly difficult to find niche games, because they can't hold shelf space next to games from EA and other big publishers, etc.

I know that many Slashdotters grew up on Nintendo, but *they are* the Microsoft of the videogame world.

I suppose I am fairly sentimental about Nintendo... I've owned every system since the Nintendo, and although I've never been a huge gamer, I always considered Nintendo to be the top company when it came to games. I suppose, even though it's true, I don't like seeing Nintendo portrayed in a negative light. ;)

Oh yeah... Now that Microsoft has entered the videogame world, what has Nintendo become...?

random

ATARI may own MS...

[Anonymous Coward]

all depends on how big microsloth thinks it is.

but that is a trs-80 intercept from about 15 years ago, getting news on pluto is a pain.

MSMari~1

[Jon_Sy]

Can you see it now?

First, Mario kills Luigi, who is unnecessary competition. Of course, he has nothing to fear from Bowser: his employer has proprietary rights to hellfire. Soon the Kuppas will be building Mario's .NET empire, while the courts are paid off with funding from Yoshi's magic mushroom factory.

Re:MSMari~1

[BlueGecko]

Is it just me, or is this the plot to Star Wars III?

Re:MSMari~1

[vinton]

Of course, he has nothing to fear from Bowser

Since the courts found it to be an anti-competetive practice, MS can no longer bundle its own bowser with the game.

If only I could

[WildBeast]

If I could buy Nintendo I would, but I can't afford it, so instead I'll sell myself to MS for $25 billion. Unless someone else have an interesting offer?

Re:If only I could

[Anonymous Coward]

And I assume you had a point in there somewhere?

Re:If only I could

[sinserve]

yes, two blocks after the sig.

--

Deja vu?

[Quadraphonic]

If my memory serves me correctly, when MS decided that they wanted to get into the online-service market, they tried to by AOL. Is there anything new under the sun?

Re:Deja vu?

[Anonymous Coward]

So the X-box and MSN can both be considered results of "Plan 'B'?"

What if ...?

[ZZabinski]

If this had gone through, would M$ now own the Seattle Mariners? It's difficult to imagine Bill Gates being a sports guy .. but I guess Mark Cuban was able to make the transition pretty well.

Re:What if ...?

[generic-man]

You're kidding, right? Mark Cuban has always been a diehard basketball fan, and his actions while running the Dallas Mavericks have led to over $500,000 in fines from the NBA. Recently, he said that he wouldn't hire a certain referee "to run a Dairy Queen", much less officiate basketball; to save face, Cuban managed a Dairy Queen to appreciate how difficult the job is.

Bill Gates simply wouldn't go the Mark Cuban route if he ever ended up owning a sports team.

Makes sence

[Edmund Blackadder]

When entering a new market it is always easier to buy another company (if you can afford it) rather than try to force your way in there. When you buy another company you get consumer base, brandnames expertise etc.

Re:Makes sence

[Paul Komarek]

What's weird is that they wanted Nintendo to throw their brand and expertise away by cancelling the GameCube and backing the very new, very experimental, very strange Xbox. Seems idiotic to me.

-Paul Komarek

Midway

[The Monster]

They have got to be kidding, naming a project after the naval battle in WWII that turned the tide in the Pacific

Uh... you ever hear of the Midway division of Bally? You know, the folks who bought the US
rights to Pac-Man from Namco (a Japanese company)? I always thought their name was based
on the notion of a carnival Midway; I suspect that Namco's executives, if they even thought about
it, either shared that idea, or didn't care so long as they got paid.

--
Fight wide posts! Put in your own <br>

Upcoming releases for the XP-Cube.. MS64.. MSNES

[bryans]

Bomberman XP Legend of Bill Super MS Bros. Bill Gates Pro Skater 2 Pokemon Stadium XP MSWorld XP

So let me ge this strait

[Edmund Blackadder]

Ninetendo wanted to learn from Microsoft about making console games and systems. Because Ninetendo lacks experience in that field you know.

Unless Ninetendo needed urgent information on how to make a bussiness plane or a golf simulator, i would suggest you have it backwards.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[edwdig]

Notice how Nintendo is pricing their products to be cheaper than Microsoft's. Microsoft makes a move to cut prices, so does Nintendo. Nintendo now knows MS's price points, and their strategies, further enabling them to stay ahead.

I don't think Microsoft would've approached Nintendo if they weren't serious about a buyout attempt. Nintendo learned their leson from the Playstation ordeal.

MS came to Nintendo and said "This is our plan. Want to be part of it?" Nintendo said, "Maybe, tell us more." MS gives Nintendo their full strategy, at which point Nintendo blows them off.

No matter what your market position is, knowing what the costs of your competitor's product is, and what their strategy is definately helps.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[cvd6262]

M$ did the same to Logitech ~to yrs ago. IT worked for them.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like my last job interview.

AC: This is my plan!
Company: Great! Tell us more!
AC: I'd like to have my crew look around your operation and question your staff. We'll take notes for 3 or so months.
Company: Why?
AC: Bite my ass! Fuck you! You're a fucking monopolist Nintendo! Pikachu this motherfucker!

This is true, except for the Nintendo and the interview stuff.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[Anonymous Coward]

"This is our plan. Want to be part of it?" Nintendo said, "Maybe, tell us more." MS gives Nintendo their full strategy,

Haha, you gotta be really dense to believe that. Especially as that is MS's own tried and true MO. Microsoft is not naive enough to give someone all their future plans for a platform based on a vague promise, NDAs and all.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[NanoGator]

"Notice how Nintendo is pricing their products to be cheaper than Microsoft's."

Correction: Notice how Nintendo is aware that parents don't want to spend a lot of money for a game system?

Their price motives have nothing to do with what they learned from MS. It has to do with the fact that $200 is far closer to an 'impulse buy' than a PS2, XBOX, or any of the other ridiculously priced systems. Even Sega knew this when they made the Dreamcast.

If you want more proof that Nintendo's pricing is a result of careful planning vs. leveraging of 'MS Price points...' (which they would not have known back in 99, heh), then crack open a GameCube, then crack open a PS2 and an XBOX. What you'll find upon opening a GameCube is that a bunch of guts won't fall out. It's a very clean, elegant design. They didn't add DVD player capability (i.e. no royalties to pay to MPEG/DVD groups...), it's small so it requires fewer resources, and there's only one main circuit board plus a riser card for the controller inputs.

Nintendo's pricing is based on knowledge of what people who buy games spend their money on, not based on what they couldn't have known about MS. Remember, it may sound great to have a DVD player built into a game machine, but this machine's main focus is kids. Parents buy the game machine. They look at price tag, not features.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[cREW oNE]

Except MS has $40 *BILLION* in cash to waste.

Sure, knowing what they are up to helps, but $40 billion is a not to be underestimated pile of cash. And if that pile of cash wants you out of business, then you're going to have one hell of a fight with it, that's for sure.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[Anonymous Coward]

Businesses do similar things to other businesses all the time. It's normal corporate practice, and all companies know how and when to tip their hand and how and when not to do so. You should stop trying to characterize it as a unique Microsoft evil, because it's not.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[Anonymous Coward]

then crack open a GameCube, then crack open a PS2 and an XBOX. What you'll find upon opening a GameCube is that a bunch of guts won't fall out.

That's because the design is skimpy and lean, not because it's 'clean, elegant design.'

I was frankly shocked that you describe this as a virtue.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[edwdig]

I know Nintendo always sells their new systems for $200. But look at Europe. It's even cheaper there. As soon as MS dropped the Xbox price their, Nintendo dropped the GameCube price.

Re:So let me ge this strait

[NanoGator]

"That's because the design is skimpy and lean, not because it's 'clean, elegant design.'"

Really? Then how come this 'skimpy and lean [design]' isn't getting it's butt kicked by the presumably not-so-lean XBOX? XBOX might have a little bit of power superiority over GC, but not $100 (or twice the price of the GC) better.

Nintendo *always* puts all kinds of effort into making sure that the circuitry is as elegant and simple as possible. If you don't believe me, look at the Game Boy, Nintendo 64, and SNES. They always put extra development time into this. Some would say that's why Nintendo often misses their planned launch dates.

Re:Can you believe it?

[Anonymous Coward]

another M$ brainwashed freak who is too dumb to run linux so he flames us smarter people

E

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[account_deleted]

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This could have been a good thing

[JabXVI]

If Microsoft bought Nintendo and Nintendo's influence spread through the rest of MS, the releases of upcoming versions of Windows would be delayed repeatedly, so people wouldn't have to upgrade so often.

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[account_deleted]

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It's clear now...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see why Microsoft hates Linux and the GPL so much now. Similar to the comments above, they can't buy it outright and call it theirs.

Re:It's clear now...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see why Linux and GPL zealots hate Microsoft so much now. They can't appropriate the source, slap in a viral license and call it theirs.

Xbox is in trouble

[Bethor]

I think Microsoft will never be a big player in the videogame industry, regardless of how much money they pour into it.
They need to dominate both the American and Japanese markets to stand a chance.
Here are some of the things that will stop them:

- Most important video game developers are Japanese. Those companies have strong relationships with Sony and/or Nintendo. You simply can't buy your way into a closed industry in Japan. I know, I work there.
- Culture clash. Japanese gamers don't like the Xbox. It's big, ugly and all the exclusive games are very American.
- Microsoft has absolutely no way to force anyone to buy an Xbox. Their Windows/Office tactics don't apply here.
- MS actually looses money on each Xbox they sell. If they don't have a big market share a couple years from now (and they wont), they will NOT keep trying. Not even M$ can afford to do this.

If I was Microsoft, I would make Xbox2 run PC games directly. No porting needed whatsoever.

Cheers.

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[Anonymous Coward]

I beg to differ...

I company with $59 Billion in cash can afford to do pretty much whatever they want to do.

That money in a money market fund would generate $1.7 Billion a year in intrest.... So unless they lose >$1.7 Billion a year, they are fine.

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[alcmena]

Microsoft has absolutely no way to force anyone to buy an Xbox.

Microsoft could start bundling XBoxes with Windows.

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[rkgmd]

Wrong! From this article, msft has about $5.3b in cash and cash equivalents (that can be quickly liquidated), and, "using a slightly more expansive methodology", about $36b. But, remeber that this includes items like various venture capital investments that a) cannot be liquidated easily, b) probably required to support its stock price and market cap(~$300b with P/E of 45, a relative high). In any case, while the article acknowledges that the $500m that msft spent on xbox marketing won't probably affect it much, the stock market does not necessarily applaud a product unless the investment is recouped somehow in a fairly short interval.

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[Rayder]

Xbox is not in trouble. Look at how Microsoft has done in the past in similar situations. They are a monopoly. They will paciently await until they get the share they want. Will bring new and improved versions, and they will put as much money inside as needed, after all if they were able to spend $25 billions in buying Nintendo, this is a lot of money you can use to sell Xboxes at a loss.

Just await until Xbox 3.0 comes out, as you must know, nothing from Microsfot is really right until it arrives to the third version.

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah , it takes three tries to optimize on their own fcuking OS. this is hardware dude. cant beat the japs at that. microsoft is the GM of the computer industry

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[darianx]

BZZZT!! Quit snipping what suits your arguement out of the full text asshole. If you would have been so kind as to quote the rest of that paragraph and the next in that Forbes article, the rest of us would have seen this:

Using the most conservative definition of cash--money in the bank plus investments that can be liquated in three months or less--both Cisco and Microsoft have $5.3 billion in cash on hand. Using a slightly more expansive methodology, Microsoft has the equivalent of $36 billion in cash, reportedly the largest cash hoard in corporate history.

The kicker is that companies like Microsoft and Dell are hardly speculative companies that need a lot of cash to expand their business. Though their investor relations folk will argue the contrary till they are blue in the face, both companies resemble mature businesses. Dell sells PCs, a commodity product. Microsoft is so hungry for growth outside of its core operating system monopoly that it recently took an extremely risky plunge into the videogame console business with the Xbox. But even extremely expensive initiatives like the Xbox, which supposedly cost $500 million in initial marketing costs, aren't going to put a dent in Microsoft's cash pile.

Now, jam that up your Linux-fogged ass and take a seat junior. They aren't strapped for cash. I suppose you really think AOL paid hundreds of billions in cash for Time-Warner too...

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[Anonymous Coward]

Why IS everything from MS oversized? Could ALL their ergonomics testers be giants?

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[haggar]

In a way, I agree: Microsoft could, hypothetically, afford easily to give away 30 million Xboxen, and still would have used up only a quarter of their cash. (I calculated the cost of each Xbox to be a bit less than $300)

Even I would, er., "buy" and Xbox (and I abolutely loathe anything Microsoft), but would probably end up taking out the two fans and the power supply - which seem to be the only usable components.

Back to the point: if 30 million Xboxen hit the market, MS has won. It may not kill Playstation2 immediately, but wait one more year, Xbox2 comes out, MS gives 60 million units away for free (yes, they will still be able to afford it) and that's the coup de gra for the Playstation. And MS will still have 15 billion in cash reserves.

MY calculations are based on the current cash whch is in excess of 40 billion, and the (rather conservative) estimate that in a year MS will make at least 5 billion more.

Could microsoft afford to deplete half of it's cash assets just to win the console war? Well, I personally think it could, because it's their door into the home entertainment center, and once they start selling services for home users, they have put their hands on a very lucrative and future-proof market.

...terrifying prospect..!!

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[richie]

Yes, but MS uses the interest from all that cash to prop up its earnings. Cash goes down, profits go down, stock price goes down, options become meaningless.

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[LiENUS]

Bill Gates at the next trial "But sir the Xbox is nescicary for windows to be stable."

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[Odinson]

"Wrong! From this article, [forbes.com] msft has about $5.3b in cash and cash equivalents (that can be quickly liquidated), and, "using a slightly more expansive methodology", about $36b"

Yea 36 billion, unless Congress changes the employee stock option laws in response to the Enron thing. The WORST hurt on the DOW will be MSFT measuring in at 18 billion dollars in the red (from 4 to 7 in black) to shift around before they can show a profit. Microsoft==20 year old Enron.

That gives them about two more years of running off reserve cash with no revenue, not the typically quoted five.

They couldn't get the mafia on murder, the IRS got them on tax evasion. MSFT meet the SEC.

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[Incadenza]

- Culture clash. Japanese gamers don1t like the Xbox. It1s big, ugly and all the exclusive games are very American.

M$ did get an exclusive on SEGA's Shen Mue II, and you can't get more oriental than that. So exclusive even, that the Dreamcast version was cancelled in the States (it was released in Europe though). They must have made some 'offer you cannot resist' to SEGA.

Re:Xbox is in trouble

[Anonymous Coward]

"cancelled in the States"... only if you don't read alt.binaries.dreamcast...

This animation says it all...

[CityZen]

http://download.theforce.net/theater/shortfilms/co nsolewars/cwpart1.swf

Re: (2) What if ...?

[ZZabinski]

Of course I'm kidding. I know that Mark Cuban has always been a Mavericks fan and he's done an awesome job with that team. Unlike most stingy owners, he is willing to spend the money to get his team a championship. ++Cuban for that.

Please mod this shiteater's post down

[Anonymous Coward]

Blah blah blah. Fucking moron with the page-widening post.

ugh

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft needs to be split up ... not multiplied! Capitalism is predicated on competition. Monopolies are more fascism than capitalism. We need more competition, not less.

MS bob

[autopr0n]

Intresting note, the woman who lead BOB's development whent on to marry bill gates. Now she's in charge of billions of dolars to help starving africans and stuff.

I don't know something about that just seems wrong some how...

that is totaly bogus

[Anonymous Coward]

$25 billion, is totaly false. You can not possibly pay that much for a company like nintendo. That is the most outragous thing I have ever read.

They better get real.

Re:that is totaly bogus

[DoomPlague]

Believe it or not, Nintendo is that big. They make more than twice as much in revenues in the game industry as anyone else and they have a lot of valuable intellectual properties.

Re:Can you believe it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why won't the girlies let me have sex with them. Is my pee pee too small?

http://www.goatse.cx/contrib/giver2.jpg

Re:Dr. Pierce discusses the Jewish Problem

[saihung]

You know, I'm Jewish and I keep hearing about this whole worldwide Jewish conspiracy. Apparently I'm not entered in their records correctly - could someone tell me who I need to write to so I can get my monthly check and my "How to manipulate the media" packet?

Wrong

[Mastagunna]

A lock out feature, sounds a lot like copy protection, ever tried to run a homebrewed game on a PSX, or XBOX. Why don't you call Sony evil, cause they do the same thing, but worse, cause you could use a converter for here to play Japanese games, you do that on a Sony and you are sued to death, aka mod-chip companies. Nothing Nintendo did was wrong, just not common place back then. No people who do not do that are blamed for not protecting there stuff when it gets copied.

Re:Wrong

[polarkittycat]

Just a quick note...
You can play home brewed games on the PS2 if you develop them using the SDL libraries.

In fact, knowing the kind of architecture Sony has chosen it would probably be easier to develop anything you wanted to home brew with SDL and Linux then with the regular sony dev tools anyway.

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[account_deleted]

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Like ever seen?

[autopr0n]

Um, has there ever been a riot in japan?

Re:Like ever seen?

[Anonymous Coward]

They go to china its called nan ching. Party down japanese doods.

geez...

[autopr0n]

Microsoft was probably salivating at the thought of having a viselike grip on people's lives from the time they fire up their first video game as a kid, until the final time they turn off their PC before going on to die in their sleep later that night.

hahah, that's some desturbing images there... the final time they turn off their PC and go to bed at night to die...

Anyway, I don't think David Sheff painted Nintendo as totaly evil, although they kind of are :P (just look at their reaction to the emulation scene)

Re:geez...

[Anonymous Coward]

Many of us don't turn off the PC before going to bed.

I run Windows 2000, and now have a UPS on my machine. Yesterday our new Lawn Tractor from Sears was delivered and the truck driver rammed into the power line and took out the power to our house. The UPS started beeping so I went to shut down W2K on the machine while the UPS battery lasted.

There is no reason to let Windows 2000 crash, even due to an unrelated hardware failure. It certainly won't crash on it's own.

It's about real estate not gaming

[quantum-cowboy]

Isn't the Microsoft campus next to Nintendo's?
Is the MS campus nearly full?
Aren't real estate prices high in Redmond?
Wouldn't it be worth buying a company and closing them down just to fill out the last quadrant of your block?

Re:It's about real estate not gaming

[Anonymous Coward]

How much do you think real-estate costs rainman? Do you have any concept of money? 25 billion dollars for land? Jesus christ you could buy half of washington for that.

Re:It's about real estate not gaming

[Anonymous Coward]

Pun intended.

Re:It's about real estate not gaming

[crusher-1]

Or at least a sizable chunk of downtown Seattle!!!. Real estate???

Ya. Ok, what ever!

Cheers.

Maybe they just wanted their buildings...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo has a fairly large office building just across the freeway from the main Microsoft campus in Redmond. Back in the late 90's MS was building offices like mad, and may have just wanted to snarf up some ready made office space...

Thinking Ahead

[_Sprocket_]

I was going to entitle this reply "Microsoft is in trouble". But that would have been inflamitory. It is simply not true. But it would be if they continued to look at the market like it has remained the same in the last 5 or 10 years.

The desktop OS (and possibly desktop computer) as we know it is doomed. Or very likely to be doomed. If the desktop computer remains roughly the same as it is today, it is likely to be overran by commodity operating systems (just as the hardware became largely a commodity market). But more likely the desktop computer will change in drastic ways sometime in the future (leaving techheads like us with a niche market of commodity hardware and software).

One way or another, Microsoft's current market will change. To maintain their business, Microsoft must also change. The trouble is, technology rarely broadcasts the next Big Thing. So that leaves Microsoft and every other tech pundit guessing.

But any good pundit knows how to play the odds. The strategy is to figure out what the possibilities are and cover those bases. Hedge the bets. If you can afford it.

Microsoft acts on the their guesses for future markets. Set-top boxes. PVRs. Web-based services. PDAs. Webpads. And in the Xbox... a game console (with considerably more potential than just console gaming).

If these initiatives do not provide great return, or actually loose in the market place... well, that is a luxury Microsoft can afford. They must not allow the next industry boom abandon them to being a footnote in IT industry history. They are hedging their bets.

Re:Thinking Ahead

[potnoodle]

Check out C#. Check out how MS got the creators of it into MS. Start praying with your back to the wall.

before you shell out the 20 bucks

[Anonymous Coward]

just note that M$ is hardly a "absolute newcomer" to the gaming world. Their 80's flight simulator is still the best work they ever did, and was pretty much on the cutting edge at that time. I wonder what other glaring mistakes are contained in this so called book.

Re:before you shell out the 20 bucks

[jx100]

Hmm... their best work was in the '80s... sounds about right.

Compared to Game Over

[rellick]

Has anyone read Game Over - Press Start to Continue, the story of Nintendo from the 1800s until the N64 ? That was a pretty good book. How does this one compare ?

Re:Compared to Game Over

[SuiteSisterMary]

I've not read the Xbox book, but if you liked Game Over, two others to try are Revolutionaries at Sony, which is about the Playstation, and Renegades Against The Empire, which is the story of DirectX.

Agree.

[Anonymous Coward]

You hit it on the head on many points. The biggest being after E3 there will be no market for Microsoft, and Sony will be sitting a bit nervous. The lineup that Nintendo has to offer will be unmatched from ANY of their prior consoles, even including the original NES. The console world will be turned upside-down after the buzz from Mario, Metroid, Zelda, and the other two new Zelda and Mario games. Also they are redoing their old Zelda games and updating them on a disc for Gamecube people. And a GBA Metroid 4 will be arriving.

In all honesty, there is simply no reason for anyone who is seriously into games to not own a Gamecube and a GBA. Every single game is there, or will be (Read: Squaresoft has over *7* games lined up between the Cube/GBA now.). Not even Sonys Gran Turismo 4 can save them.

Re:Agree.

[Chad Page]

Another thing to note is that it should be almost trivial for Nintendo to make a Gamecube 2 in a couple of years - the ATI/ArtX team is still together I think, and IBM is still actively developing the PPC G3 core and might even be including the GC's SIMD unit next year in generally available chips. It's a lot less challenging than designing the PS2/PS3, albeit a bit more than XBox2.

Enix will be making game for GAMECUBE.

[Anonymous Coward]

They announced this a while back I believe. So while it might be nice for XBox to have it, sadly, they wont. Like every other game, XBox is doomed. Also the latest DW game on the PSX was a huge dud.

Microsoft trying to buy ITV Digital!

[YorkshireONE]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1 956000/1956023.stm

So that's what the HD might be for

[fons]

If I was Microsoft, I would make Xbox2 run PC games directly. No porting needed whatsoever.

I've always wondered why there's a relativly big HD in the Xbox. Not for the stupid music options, surely. And it's way too big to save games.

The HD would make sens if a future OS upgrade would make playing PC-games possible. Cause you need a HD to install those games on.

Re:So that's what the HD might be for

[Anonymous Coward]

Only on Slashdot, and only with reference to a Microsoft product could anybody dis a piece of hardware for having too big of a hard drive.

Video games are art.

[potnoodle]

And artists don't like to compromise their vision. So Microsoft can buy all of those it can't beat, but it will never be able to buy the true creators of games. They bought Bungie and it got them Halo : a beautiful, soulless, empty shell of a game. Only sold-out, greedy companies like the one that produces the Oddcrap world are sick enough to believe that they can make it no matter who they employ. Oh sure, MS can buy all the intellectual property they can get their hands on but what's stopping the star authors to move to a different company? Money. Yes, MS has a lot of that but not everyone is for sale ! "Mario, do you know who your real father is ?" "Aaaaaaaaaaaah!!!" "Good. Now drop those silly pants."

What about the one...

[smeng]

What about the one where Microsoft also tried to buy Sega? Or the one where Nintendo and Sega were discussing a merger, or was it Nintendo buying over Sega - I can't remember now... Imagine this... Microsoft buys over Sony. Then they get to be a monopoly in electronic goods division too - Microsoft TVs, VCRs, DVD players, discmans, PS2s... wow... what a wonderful world it would be... NOT.

i suppose

[Anonymous Coward]

it's really intersting that Bill Gates was so willing to dump all that cash to pay for nintendo.
Yet they have such crappy games /not targetted for the japanese market or solid story line rpg's on there box despite having so much money.

it makes you wonder.
but then again, i'm sure all the developers don't want to be bothered with the xbox cause theres' the chance that Microsoft won't make an offer, or try "cut throat antics" to rip the developers off. and the only companies that do make solid gmaes that japanese people like are square, capcom and enix...

oh well, i suppose well see. when a awesome story line rpg comes up, i think everyone will know.

but then again, with games in the japapense market, you never know what's going to be big..

and in the end, it doesn't come down to money, it comes down to the artistic talents of the art team and the direction that the directors/game designers give the game. and money can't buy the insanity that is recquired for a game designer to have, and the art style of a lead art director.

and hopefully ms will know when they see it, and fork down the money to reward the developers.
cause if ms wants' to succedd, and help our econemy they really should be looking hard imho..

like remember last year, everyone was bent on destroying microsoft, etc.. but now since the economy is going in the shitter, everyone is looking to microsoft to pull us out. the job market is crap, etc.. and only a company like microsoft imho can bring us out of it. and investors also feel this way. there so many peons (college graduates with mis and comp sci who can't think for them selves and only do it cause they think it will get them a job) that it's scary.
but then again, taking a path where you don't know like me is also scary.
lol

peace,
-akbar
;http://vertexabuse.cjb.net

Re:i suppose

[Anonymous Coward]

btw. feel free to mod this up to 5 ;)
lol

They dont really need Japan

[LordZardoz]

Actually, thats not quite correct. To be a great success in the Console market, they could do so without Japan as long as they get a majority of the market in Europe as well as the US.

Japan would be a great help for microsoft, but the culture clash would probably kill them there, as it may already be in the process of doing. Microsoft gravitates towards pleasing the majority, and likes to stay Mainstream. In Japan, there is a greater tolerance for Niche markets. After all, could you picture Microsoft getting behind a game where you are a mosquito in a girl's room, and your trying to bite her without being swatted? Such a game already exists in Japan.

But in Europe, the strategy of sticking to the mainstream will be much more successful. The culture clash will be reduced. All Microsoft has to do to win a good market share in Europe is make sure that the big name titles are released very close to the US release date. If the newest titles arrive on the X-Box 2 months before they arrive on the PS2 or the GameCube, they will win that market. And all that would need to be done to insure that is guarantee that all the "Big" titles are devoloped with the French, German, Spanish, Portugese, Sweedish, and other major languages kept in mind from day one.

END COMMUNICATION

They have to buy companies...

[furry_marmot]

...'cause they never get anything right unless they wait until someone else does it and then buys the whole company.

When I was working at Intuit in the mid-90's, MS tried to buy us. Intuit's stock price went so high after it was announced that the price was going to be pretty steep. Between that and the Justice Dept investigating the deal, Bill backed out.

The story of how it came to be is interesting, though. MS did the usual "Hey, someone, somewhere is successful at something. We should own that market!" and created MS-Money to compete with us. Money 1 and 2 were pretty pathetic, but competition really began when Money 3 started to gain market share. That is to say, people who found it bundled on their new Gateway didn't go buy Quicken after trying Money.

"Online transactions" was the big buzzword in those days and Intuit had just purchased a transaction clearing house (I forget the name). The thing is, though, Intuit and MS had both been negotiating with the company in secret. Intuit knew about MS, but MS didn't know about Intuit. When Bill found out that a) we bought the company and b) they let themselves be bought for less just so they wouldn't be bought by MS, Bill decided the only thing to do was disband the MS-Money group and buy Intuit.

Quitters never prosp...uh...well I guess they do!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Hiroshima is a lovely city

[pommiekiwifruit]

and the HQ of Kemco. That's the company that makes games (and other stuff) not coffee.

Why Buying Bungie did not work!

[linuxislandsucks]

It seems that MS was pursuing many different strategies with xbox..

1. Home Entertainment
2. Home Electronics

but they forgot something that most game developing companies know..

The dev culture that produces a high quality game comes from a highly effiicent small management team that stays out of game devlopers way..

MS is not known for this..

Notice when Bungie was bought, MS gave the reason that they needed xbox develoeprs for the purchase, that once Bungie was neck deep in the mS management mire that Halo took some extra years to ship!

Microsoft has already failed with MSX and ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... they will failed with XBox just because they've tried to build yet a PC and not a console !

Stupid and idot. MS are good at marketings adn softwares but heavy hardwares are for them still foe !

-4R34'.

Nintendo doesn't run on Windows...

[darthCodex]

...so what's the use of Microsoft selling Nintendo boxes?

Seperate Ways

[Anonymous Coward]

Why doesn't /. post contributions by people with an education on one URL and contributions by people who have none at a seperate URL?

Super AUTOEXEC.BAT Bros.

[sharkey]

Need more be said?

I am a comedian.

[Anonymous Coward]

[It is the show time.]
[Conte:Electric current blast professional wrestling match]

by steveballm.....

I've got a bridge to sell you

[Anonymous Coward]

"As it is, it costs like $400 or $500 to build one of the machines."

Riiight. And you know that because you read it somewhere in a magazine.

Remember, business is war. Telling stories like this makes people like you think they know what's going on.

You don't know what's going on. Neither do I, but the difference is I understand that I don't know.

Re:I've got a bridge to sell you

[NanoGator]

"And you know that because you read it somewhere in a magazine.

Remember, business is war. Telling stories like this makes people like you think they know what's going on."

Yah... how dare I attempt to sound informed after doing research.

The trouble is...

[Anonymous Coward]

After shenmue 1, I'm very disoriental.