Why can't one or the other offer discounts? That sort of thing is done all the time... buy one chair get the second for half price. Buy a table and get a table cloth for free.
Unfortunately, for some reason, Slashdot is a day or so behind on this news... it was presented at IDF (Intel Developer Forum) yesterday along with a host of other things.
Visit some of the standard sites (AnandTech, Hardware info, TechReport, etc.) for various reviews. Here's some to get started on: link link link link link link
Quote from a poster at another site that I found interesting: What's really sad is that more people have benchmarked harpertown than barcelona, and yet one of these chips has "launched", and the other is ~2 months away.
Another intersting quip:
WE DECIDED to ask Paul Otellini whether Intel would ever contemplate creating three cores on one die. So he said: "We see a distinctive advantage in having all the cores on one die work."
They were stating their POV and their beliefs. Anyone else's opinion on the matter is irrelevant and unsolicited.
NB: Their opinion on the matter is also irrelevant and unsolicited.
To YOU, maybe... but THEY are the ones that wrote the article that YOU read. When YOU write an article, we'll say the same things... it was important to YOU and YOU wrote the article and other's comments are irrelevant to you and unsolicited.
On a server, you want the different server tasks to have fair access (usually, this isn't always the case) to the processor so that all the server stuff can go on smoothly.
On a personal workstation, however, an interactive user doesn't necessarily want all the programs to have fair access... we typically would like to have what we're concentrating on currently to be more responsive (have potentially unfair access) or else we may see dropped frames, stuttering music, or the like because the scheduler is trying to be fair to applications that aren't interactive with the console user.
This is the battle that was going on... one claims that Linux process scheduling methodologies were being swayed too far by the interests of admin for servers and this was compromising the single-user in front of a desktop experience.
What probably needs to happen is to have multiple schedulers or, at least, one where you can set the behaviour at runtime to be either more fair (server type machine) or more responsive to user tasks (desktop type machine).
Heh, shouldn't that be "full generation ahead" since AMD manages to put four cores on a single die?
No... AMD's arrogance costs them dearly. Intel has superior fab/process technology and could build monolithic quad-core but it is more expensive than MCM because of decreased yield in monolithic quad-core per wafer.
AMD already has a decent infrastructure to support MCM quad-core very well but refuse to use it to increase their yields. Only arrogance and pride keep AMD from releasing MCM parts, which would significantly increase their yield (and therefore money) and only compromise performance a small amount. As they say... pride goes before a fall.
Sending a nicely worded, sugar coated, message saying "you are in violation and if you continue to violate we will sue you" doesn't change the fact that it is a threat... a nicely, friendly worded threat, but a threat none-the-less.
I'm a guy and I get goosebumps at just the thought of trying something like that.
Turns you on, too, eh?;)
E.g., all-female bomber squadrons actually chose to fly without parachutes or sometimes even radio, so they can fit an extra bomb on the plane. Mind boggles. E.g., they actually pulled some stunts as cutting off the engines and gliding without any lights at treetop level at pitch-black night to release the bombs with complete surprise on the Germans.
There are rarely single issues that drive decisions. Might such a decision (to fly without a parachute) also be made if the women were told that if they crashed or parachuted, survived, and were captured by the enemy they'd be subject to constant rape until they eventually were raped to death or some other such horror?
Yup... I had an Apple//c. Appleworks and Megaworks earned me a few bucks when I was in highschool typing/printing other people's English papers. Good memories.
Another thing... back when I was in highschool, to have and use a computer branded you as a nerd/geek. Only nerd/geek kids had computers much less programmed them... so many people (boys included, who, IMO, were easily pushed around through peer pressure) avoided computers, too. We've all seen the movies from the 80s where nerds/geeks used computers and were given swirlies or harassed in some other ways (The Breakfast Club where the nerd was picked on quite a bit for being in the Math and Physics Clubs... academic clubs, not social clubs, for example).
These days, practically everyone has a computer and computers (and their use) are practically infinitely more accepted in highschool... just look at all the idiots who use MySpace... thus enabling boys who would, in my day, been too scared to play/learn with computers, to persue them. It may be that playing with computers is something that is more male oriented for some reason or another (similarly to automotive repair... certainly there are females who enjoy it but the vast majority are males) and now even the jocks can play with computers without being picked on so even more males are exposed to computers and go into IT related fields now than would have back when I was in highschool.
Why can't women simply "not like" IT and choose to go into other professions? If that is the case, must we force them to work in IT or something so that the numbers "work out"? I certainly understand that there are some hostile workplace issues sometimes in some places, I'm not sure why this would be indicated in fewer females entering into college on IT paths. I would think hostile work environments would be more indicative of more females changing majors out of IT and/or more females leaving IT once in the workforce.
If numbers must always be 50/50, must we also force males into job areas that are typically dominated by females as well?
Which highlights my point - Sony has released tools to make this easier. So the argument that the SPEs are so hard to deal with is moot.
"Dealing" with the SPEs is trivial. An API to take a pointer, a byte count, and a destination to trigger a DMA is trivial to write. Having seven processors all working on a portion of the same problem by communicating and computing efficiently and calling those APIs at the appropriate times is the hard part. So far, that hasn't been solved for the general case (by anyone on any machine) and is still done by using gray matter. To paraphrase the old joke... calling an API is easy... knowing when to call it... that's the hard part.
To say it another way... in parallel programming, data partitioning and data flow are the hard parts of the problem to solve. Once you figure out that, the program kind of falls out based on those things. Knowing how to call an API with the right parameters is trivial. There are no efficient automated mechanisms to solve data partitioning and dataflow for the general cases. Some cases are pretty easy and have solutions (and tools to do it for you) like dataflow pipelines. Other than that, people write libraries to solve certain problems like large sparse matrix solvers, large dense matrix solvers, and such.
So... no... I highly doubt Sony has released tools that make writing parallel programs easy for the general case. It doesn't matter whether or not dealing with an SPE and communication is easy or not. Parallelising an AI algorithm, for example, that's the hard part and has to be done before you even touch the API.
Actually... to extend your simile, it's like an 8-cylinder (not necessarily a 'V') where two of the cylinders are of one size and run on standard gasoline (PPE) and the others (SPE) run on diesel and are a different size and crank length (to reflect the differences in capabilities) and there's no timing belt or single crank shaft or valves:) It's up to the programmers to keep the cylinders fed at the right times and synchronize all of them properly and in ways such that the power can be applied efficiently to the transmission:)
In my opinion, the only thing holding back Linux on the desktop is Microsoft's illegal preload stranglehold. We'll see if the Dell/Ubuntu experiment changes that opinion.
The biggest problem I've seen for home use is that it all goes great until they ask, and I have to tell them, that Linux won't run their games out of the box. Linux will run some games through the various Cadega/Wine but many times it requires configuration (I've even had to apply a patch once) but it doesn't run all games and, invariably, there's one on the list that it won't run and it is invariably a deal breaker.
I don't see that changing anytime soon... as long as the major game companies don't target Linux and 'why run Windows games on Linux when I can just run Windows and not have to deal with it' (same thing as OS/2 ran into), there will always be an adoption issue for home use.
Of course, companies can dictate whatever they want but few are willing to chance a large/lengthy conversion and/or reduction of utility while people get up to speed to give it a try.
I've found, probably as others have found, having Linux running as servers and Windows as desktops is a reasonable setup. Unfortunately, it exposes you to both the best and worst of both worlds, still.
Social networks of those types (fraternity, skull and bones, etc.) are strong when you are close-knit about the business you're doing (military, DoD, and defense contractors come to mind) and (outside of politics) less so when you're in the world-wide scope. True, you never know when a contact you made as a kid may help out later in life but you can't think that your business will be even majorly dependent upon a bunch of MySpace contacts. Besides... other than advertisers who are trying to be hip (bands, etc.) and target the MySpace demographic, I'm not so sure that I'd bet my financial success on 'business contacts' like those of the most common demographic of those who use and live by MySpace. If you want to sell them the latest straight-to-the-trash-can music, yeah... you can count on them for that.
Since when is even "email" mainstream? Oh, it happened in a fast time frame? Why yes it did. IM, or what IM evolves into, will be the same.
I've been using email for about 21 years now as a major part (practically all) of my non-face-to-face communications:)
Not only that... all of the reviews that took apart the thing said that the battery was not end-user replacable. That, in itself, was a huge warning flag for me... I've had a number of cell phone batteries die on me so getting a phone that doesn't allow for trivial replacement of at least the battery is out of the question, for me.
Actually... it's odd, too... because AMD's architecture (HT/etc.) really lends itself nicely to MCMs... it should be almost trivial for them to make an MCM quad core part.
So... the conclusion is to buy the cheapest CPU. The charts all look pretty much like they're just sorted by price, ascending. Guess what... that's the way it is and always has been... each speed grade increase adds a premium (both for artificial/marketing reasons and because the yield is typically lower, at first, but after the process matures, it's mostly artificial).
Slashdot Mirror
Why can't one or the other offer discounts? That sort of thing is done all the time... buy one chair get the second for half price. Buy a table and get a table cloth for free.
Visit some of the standard sites (AnandTech, Hardware info, TechReport, etc.) for various reviews. Here's some to get started on:
link
link
link
link
link
link
Quote from a poster at another site that I found interesting: What's really sad is that more people have benchmarked harpertown than barcelona, and yet one of these chips has "launched", and the other is ~2 months away.
Another intersting quip:
from: link
Who cares. They'll sell the quad cores at the same price as AMD sells tri-cores and say "Look, for the same price, you get a whole 'nother core!".
To YOU, maybe... but THEY are the ones that wrote the article that YOU read. When YOU write an article, we'll say the same things... it was important to YOU and YOU wrote the article and other's comments are irrelevant to you and unsolicited.
On a server, you want the different server tasks to have fair access (usually, this isn't always the case) to the processor so that all the server stuff can go on smoothly.
On a personal workstation, however, an interactive user doesn't necessarily want all the programs to have fair access... we typically would like to have what we're concentrating on currently to be more responsive (have potentially unfair access) or else we may see dropped frames, stuttering music, or the like because the scheduler is trying to be fair to applications that aren't interactive with the console user.
This is the battle that was going on... one claims that Linux process scheduling methodologies were being swayed too far by the interests of admin for servers and this was compromising the single-user in front of a desktop experience.
What probably needs to happen is to have multiple schedulers or, at least, one where you can set the behaviour at runtime to be either more fair (server type machine) or more responsive to user tasks (desktop type machine).
Yeah, that's a good reason to drive the company to bankruptcy.
No... AMD's arrogance costs them dearly. Intel has superior fab/process technology and could build monolithic quad-core but it is more expensive than MCM because of decreased yield in monolithic quad-core per wafer.
AMD already has a decent infrastructure to support MCM quad-core very well but refuse to use it to increase their yields. Only arrogance and pride keep AMD from releasing MCM parts, which would significantly increase their yield (and therefore money) and only compromise performance a small amount. As they say... pride goes before a fall.
I made no statement as to the 'rightness' or the 'wrongness' of the threat... just that it was a threat.
Sending a nicely worded, sugar coated, message saying "you are in violation and if you continue to violate we will sue you" doesn't change the fact that it is a threat... a nicely, friendly worded threat, but a threat none-the-less.
Turns you on, too, eh?
There are rarely single issues that drive decisions. Might such a decision (to fly without a parachute) also be made if the women were told that if they crashed or parachuted, survived, and were captured by the enemy they'd be subject to constant rape until they eventually were raped to death or some other such horror?
Imagine that... someone trained at a task being better at it than someone untrained at the task.
Boxing isn't completely about strength. Technique is pretty important.
Man, I wanted an Apple IIgs so bad when it came out but couldn't afford one :(
Yup... I had an Apple //c. Appleworks and Megaworks earned me a few bucks when I was in highschool typing/printing other people's English papers. Good memories.
Another thing... back when I was in highschool, to have and use a computer branded you as a nerd/geek. Only nerd/geek kids had computers much less programmed them... so many people (boys included, who, IMO, were easily pushed around through peer pressure) avoided computers, too. We've all seen the movies from the 80s where nerds/geeks used computers and were given swirlies or harassed in some other ways (The Breakfast Club where the nerd was picked on quite a bit for being in the Math and Physics Clubs... academic clubs, not social clubs, for example).
These days, practically everyone has a computer and computers (and their use) are practically infinitely more accepted in highschool... just look at all the idiots who use MySpace... thus enabling boys who would, in my day, been too scared to play/learn with computers, to persue them. It may be that playing with computers is something that is more male oriented for some reason or another (similarly to automotive repair... certainly there are females who enjoy it but the vast majority are males) and now even the jocks can play with computers without being picked on so even more males are exposed to computers and go into IT related fields now than would have back when I was in highschool.
Why can't women simply "not like" IT and choose to go into other professions? If that is the case, must we force them to work in IT or something so that the numbers "work out"? I certainly understand that there are some hostile workplace issues sometimes in some places, I'm not sure why this would be indicated in fewer females entering into college on IT paths. I would think hostile work environments would be more indicative of more females changing majors out of IT and/or more females leaving IT once in the workforce.
If numbers must always be 50/50, must we also force males into job areas that are typically dominated by females as well?
"Dealing" with the SPEs is trivial. An API to take a pointer, a byte count, and a destination to trigger a DMA is trivial to write. Having seven processors all working on a portion of the same problem by communicating and computing efficiently and calling those APIs at the appropriate times is the hard part. So far, that hasn't been solved for the general case (by anyone on any machine) and is still done by using gray matter. To paraphrase the old joke... calling an API is easy... knowing when to call it... that's the hard part.
To say it another way... in parallel programming, data partitioning and data flow are the hard parts of the problem to solve. Once you figure out that, the program kind of falls out based on those things. Knowing how to call an API with the right parameters is trivial. There are no efficient automated mechanisms to solve data partitioning and dataflow for the general cases. Some cases are pretty easy and have solutions (and tools to do it for you) like dataflow pipelines. Other than that, people write libraries to solve certain problems like large sparse matrix solvers, large dense matrix solvers, and such.
So... no... I highly doubt Sony has released tools that make writing parallel programs easy for the general case. It doesn't matter whether or not dealing with an SPE and communication is easy or not. Parallelising an AI algorithm, for example, that's the hard part and has to be done before you even touch the API.
Actually... to extend your simile, it's like an 8-cylinder (not necessarily a 'V') where two of the cylinders are of one size and run on standard gasoline (PPE) and the others (SPE) run on diesel and are a different size and crank length (to reflect the differences in capabilities) and there's no timing belt or single crank shaft or valves :) It's up to the programmers to keep the cylinders fed at the right times and synchronize all of them properly and in ways such that the power can be applied efficiently to the transmission :)
And queue the Mac Zealot Military Unit (MiZiMU) to issue death threats to said (fictional-)worm writer.
So you draw a bunch of buttons? or have one giant button (touch screen)?
The biggest problem I've seen for home use is that it all goes great until they ask, and I have to tell them, that Linux won't run their games out of the box. Linux will run some games through the various Cadega/Wine but many times it requires configuration (I've even had to apply a patch once) but it doesn't run all games and, invariably, there's one on the list that it won't run and it is invariably a deal breaker.
I don't see that changing anytime soon... as long as the major game companies don't target Linux and 'why run Windows games on Linux when I can just run Windows and not have to deal with it' (same thing as OS/2 ran into), there will always be an adoption issue for home use.
Of course, companies can dictate whatever they want but few are willing to chance a large/lengthy conversion and/or reduction of utility while people get up to speed to give it a try.
I've found, probably as others have found, having Linux running as servers and Windows as desktops is a reasonable setup. Unfortunately, it exposes you to both the best and worst of both worlds, still.
I've been using email for about 21 years now as a major part (practically all) of my non-face-to-face communications
Friends don't let friends use MySpace.
Not only that... all of the reviews that took apart the thing said that the battery was not end-user replacable. That, in itself, was a huge warning flag for me... I've had a number of cell phone batteries die on me so getting a phone that doesn't allow for trivial replacement of at least the battery is out of the question, for me.
Actually... it's odd, too... because AMD's architecture (HT/etc.) really lends itself nicely to MCMs... it should be almost trivial for them to make an MCM quad core part.
So... the conclusion is to buy the cheapest CPU. The charts all look pretty much like they're just sorted by price, ascending. Guess what... that's the way it is and always has been... each speed grade increase adds a premium (both for artificial/marketing reasons and because the yield is typically lower, at first, but after the process matures, it's mostly artificial).