Slashdot Mirror
iPhone Battery Replacement An Unwelcome Surprise
epidemic99 writes "Apple has released what it will cost to replace the battery in the iPhone, and consumers might be a bit put off. Replacement is a tricky ordeal, as the battery is apparently soldered into the device. The service will cost $79, plus $6.95 for shipping, plus an optional $29 'loaner iPhone' rental. A consumer advocacy group sent a letter to Apple complaining that this information was not made public before iPhone's release since the cost of the battery replacement is so high. Even reviewer Harvey Rosenfield, who is usually very kind to Apple, was quoted as saying 'some of them might be waking up now, wondering who they got in bed with.'" Update: 07/06 21:06 GMT by Z : Fixed incorrect attribution of quote to Mossberg.
some of them might be waking up now, wondering who they got in bed with.
What you call a review of the iPhone, I call Tuesday night.
"Some of them might be waking up now," Rosenfield said, "wondering who they got in bed with." I guess this is a new spelling of the name Mossberg that I was previously unfamiliar with.
I can throw as many stones as I wish; my house is made of transparent aluminum.
...of replacing the ipod battery is anyone surprised?
"Some of them might be waking up now," Rosenfield said, "wondering who they got in bed with."
So no, Mossberg did not actually say that. Are even the submitters not reading the articles these days?
The internet on it is slow, many have had connection problems, a lack of customization ablilities, a fairly expensive cost already, and now a high cost of battery replacement remind me again why this is such a sought after item?
A soldered battery means that it will almost NEVER pop out accidentally in your pocket or in your backpack. Thank you Apple for this great innovation!! I'm going to buy an iPhone right now!!!!
...doing the same action and expecting a different outcome?
Let's see. They released this information 1 week after the launch. I wonder, did some report come back and they just learned how much it cost, or did they know all along and kept their mouths shut? I think we both know which one it is.
.there is enough of everything for everyone.
They did not make it easy to change the SIM card or the battery in this device. While it is a really cool phone/camera/internet doom-a-flitchy device, I have to wonder what they will do if the battery is found to be defective or something. What is rather funny is that all the main chips in the device seem to be made by samsung for apple.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
First the ipod, now the iphone? What is with apple using soldered in batteries? Why cant they just use a proprietary battery and over charge for that? Maybe they are hoping people will just throwaway their ipods and iphones and get new ones.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
$85 for a battery for a phone? My piece of crap Kyocera battery I think costs about that much, and I have to replace it myself. I don't see this as expensive at all, especially given that Apple will do the work and maintain the warranty in the process.
Oh, wait...
Crow T. Trollbot
My current phone is almost 2 years old and the battery is just fine.
I have to say that this is just DUMB. Sorry Apple but you don't understand the cell phone market.
1. High end phone users often keep an extra battery to swap out.
2. Many phones offer an extended life battery.
Cell phone batteries need to be end user swappable.
I really had high hope for the Iphone but this combined with the closed development environment makes me think they just didn't do enough research. Of course I could be wrong. I never thought that Apple would move to Intel.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
welcome our soldered-in robot overlord power sources?
That's only 1/6 of the price of the phone and, since it probably accounts for 1/2 of the weight, you're actually coming out ahead. Its all in the maths.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
...you get to pay Apple for the privilege to continue using the hardware. It's not like the battery on this thing is going to outlive the life of the phone.
I recall apple having complaints about batteries in another idevice after it came out:h tml
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news03/apple_ipod.
Someone who sells eight hundred dollar phones!
I'm not surprised you have to send it in for such a high price like the ipod. Maybe I missed it in the article, but it doesn't appear to mention that Apple clears iPhone's when replacing the battery. I wonder how much of a hassle it is to back everything up? Just another added headache.
"These days"? You must be new here...
Crow T. Trollbot
If you were willing to buy an unsubsidized phone, which is roughly 50% profit for Apple, then sign a two-year contract with the worst ranked cell provider in the country that includes an overly-congested and ultra-slow data network, why should it shock you that they think they can squeeze a few more dollars out of you for a battery replacement?
from what I have read the battery will work efficiently through about two years of "normal" usage. two years from now there will be a new iPhone, and given the choice of paying $120 for a new battery (and loaner) versus $500 for the inevitably cooler NEW iPhone, my guess is that most will opt for the new phone. more $ for Apple. i would expect a wave of used iPhones on eBay around the same time. maybe i'll get one then.
I have never replaced a battery in my cell phone, not even the Treo. By the time it starts getting weak (3 years or so) there is something else out that is so much more improved that it becomes a non-issue because I'm buying a new phone. Even better now, since it's all already synced in iTunes, going to the next model will be smooth and straightforward.
People complain that it's 20% of the cost of the phone. If I buy a replacement battery for my RAZR, it's $40, which is more than 20% of the cost of the phone. Yes, I can do it myself, but will I ever? Not likely. The only time I've ever replaced a battery was back when I had a StarTAC phone, and I bought the smaller, thinner battery, because the phone slipped into my pocket.
Apple knows that only 5-8% or so of the people will even want to replace it, so they made it a possibility. People just need something to gripe about I guess.
...why would you kvetch at a $80 + S&H iPhone battery replacement? The battery itself is certainly way more than $20 better.
The iPhone battery is rechargable! You don't need to replace it all the time.
The iPhone just ejaculated on my face :-/"~
The benefit the iPhone provides most of us (in geekdom), is that it is a revolutionary way to surf the web on a mobile device. All the mobile devices until today cannot surf with even a modicum of the pleasure you get with the iPhone.
:)
That said, it's overpriced for what it is. And the people buying it up right now are only paving the way for Microsoft and others to fix up their mobile OSes to deliver cheaper devices capable of much of the same things as the iPhone. Only they will have replaceable batteries, cheaper cost (subsidized by the carrier), and 3G.
Apple makes a habit of ensuring that you as a consumer are 'locked in' to their platform. In every way, shape and form. They are turning into yet another Microsoft, from another angle. I am rather alarmed that people don't realize that Apple is no different than Microsoft in that they want market share for their devices, and they want money. There are no lofty goals with Apple, just cute looking devices that have a cult following. I will give them, that their OS is better than Vista. But they had the luxury of being able to dump support for older applications, where MS does not. Their presentation is better than Microsoft but again, Microsoft delivers software with an API that can be written against. Apple is a closed architecture, especially with the iPhone.
When people realize that Apple is no different than Microsoft, they will choose devices and software based upon need and usage requirements, rather than a religious belief to either company. I run a Mac laptop as my only laptop, but my home PC is a dual boot of Ubuntu and Vista. I'm mostly on Vista, admittedly -- but it's for gaming and I love my games
Me personally? I'll be waiting for the next generation iPhone to be released before I make a choice in buying anything. My iPod works fine and I enjoy the 3G speed of my Samsung Blackjack. And hopefully by then, Microsoft has made an answering shot to the iPhone and I'll have the ability to choose the device suited best for me. Slow, deliberate choices are the ones I make after taking time to think about it. If I see another moron carrying the iPhone and using it in a way just to show it off, I am going to smack them.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
On the one hand it's nice to have iPhone professionals replace the battery, rather than risk some backstreet operation with few guarantees that the thing will come back in good working order. On the other hand, why oh why did Apple make this choice in the first place? For someone who travels a lot not having the option to swap in a fresh battery could be a deal killer... especially as airline security now prohibits soldering irons in hand baggage. As someone who is looking for a new phone I'm finding that the iPhone is pretty much perfect - especially if they add in GPS when it comes to the UK. I really can't find anything better. But not being able to swap the battery will probably push me away.
Relax. You can buy AppleCare for $69 that covers the battery for an additional year, plus if you buy your iPhone with Gold or Platinum card it will double the warranty covering battery too.
It sounds to me like planned obsolescence. I just hope the battery holds out for the 2 years.
Answers to even the toughest problems
For someone else to start their own battery replacement program for the iPhone.
How many people *REALLY* use the Apple iPod battery replacement thing? Considering that replacement batteries tend to be easy to get for 1/3rd the cost these days and is practically available at any major electronics retailer...
Then again, there are plenty more people willing to do the battery replacement for you, too. It's a neat little effect.
And those who complain about the non-removable battery (which everyone has complained about since the beginning of the iPhone announcement), well, it's non-removable. It means it takes work to replace. It certainly won't be as easy as 99.999% of the cellphones out there, or as cheap. Also means you're limited to that one battery, so if your usage means you go through several batteries a day on your current cellphone, maybe the iPhone isn't for you.
Then again, aren't cellphone manufacturers starting to put crap on their batteries such that their phones only work with the manufacturer's battery? (Brought on because of the "cellphone exploding" (really, battery burns) caused by bum batteries overheating/catching fire. Usually caused by crappy 3rd party batteries (most of them, though there are several fairly good 3rd party battery manufacturers) where the manufacturer cut costs by using low-quality batteries and not having the requisite safety devices).
(And do the vast majority of the cellphone-owning public actually buy even a spare battery for their phones, or do they just move from phone to phone when their contract expires? I'm not talking about the few who actually buy them because they need it, I mean the vast majority of people out there.)
The more general iPhone FAQ.
Thank you! I'll be karma whoring here all week!
Crow T. Trollbot
They got into bed with the guy who sold them a $600 phone. Did anyone think the batteries would cost $5 and could be replaced at home? Take a look at the device, for crying out loud. Anyone that bought the device in the first month (which is everyone, at this point) has seen pictures of it before they bought it. Did it look like it was easy to open up and replace the battery?
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Honestly, I remember reading this the day of or the day after launch, if I remember right. $90 something is not all that terrible.
Batteries for the RAZR are like 40-50. And of course, if you didnt know the batteries were non-replaceable when you bought the iPhone, youre dumb as a rock. I do however feel that for that price, you should get a loaner phone, but I digress.
"Stuff... In my home!? NEVER!" - Zim on Invader Zim
"I want the toilet seat!" - Little Dog on Two Stupid Dogs
Seriously -- have the crybabies complaining ever priced a new laptop battery? $100+++, and that's just a simple pop-in replacement.
Frankly, I think $87 is CHEAP when you consider this battery replacement requires someone skilled enough to disassemble the iPhone, desolder the old battery, install the new one, button it all back up and dispose of the old battery and ship you your product.
And, keep in mind, Apple assumes liability for replacing the hardware if they screw up the process.
Here's a suggestion for the complainers : if you believe $87 is terribly overpriced and fueling a thick profit margin, perhaps you should open a shop and replace these batteries yourself. (I think they'll see the reality of the situation quickly.)
C'mon...the iPhone is a luxury item in the cell phone market. So, here's my daily bad car analogy: if you can't afford to put the right tires on your Porche, maybe you shouldn't have bought a Porche.
I mean, what's next, complaining to Ferrari because they don't advertise the cost of maintenance?
Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
My old Samsung battery was $120 for a replacement and I had to install it myself.
Skip ------ See the latest from http://www.anArchyFortWorth.com
A cost of 1/6 the value of the phone! Combined with the fact that half of the people that respond to engadget polls about "are you having trouble activating your iphone" are having activation trouble, I'm surprised they were able to sell the first million in under a week. This thing's doomed. I'd better sell off my stock in case it doesn't double in the next six months.
It's cute, though, how an editor tried to post a negative iPhone article. It should have had the title "iPhone..." and the text could have been "Rabble... rabble rabble rabble!"
Steve Jobs is to consumer concerns what Google is to 'do no evil.'
Would everyone still be bitching if the battery cost 80 bucks but was easily replaceble behind a little door?
Probably, you whiny babies.
You wanna change some batteries? Go play with your Maglite.
'some of them might be waking up now, wondering who they got in bed with.
yea, I can imagine the lawsuits... "misled into buying overpriced shiny devices by means of marketing hype".
I have no idea where the story is here. Other smart phone batteries are comparably priced but last half as long.
Apple says the battery is good for 300-400 charges. Considering typical use of a phone being recharged every few days, and iPhone owners reporting they can use their iPhone over multiple days without recharging, that's easily well over two years before the battery needs replacing. By then most people will be getting a different phone, iPhone gen 2 or the next cool thing from someone else.
Like the whingeing about EDGE speed, I think this is another example of a few loud complainers making a much bigger deal out of something different than their expectation. My first gen iPod with the non-replaceable battery didn't need a replacement for four years, and by then there were inexpensive 3rd party options available. And hey, if you hate having a non-replaceable battery go buy something else. Apple's not kept it a secret.
I have never, even once, needed to replace a better on a mobile phone, nor have I never bothered to use extra ones since the charge on them is good enough. Is this really, truly, a problem for people? Besides, $80 or whatever for a device that will set you back $499 - $599 plus 24 x $59.99. That's like up to around $2000, plus any other extras you buy and use and whatnot. Is the difference between $2000 and $2080 that high?
There are way too many people out there who wants to hate the iPhone because it is not specially made for them (as if any other phone was...) and makes up these completely stupid stories about absolutely nothing. Do not buy the iPhone if you do not like it. Let the number of devices sold speak instead, OK?
People still think of it as a phone. People are shocked at $40 phone battery prices. Why are you shocked that people are shocked? People think of batteries as easily replaced like the rest of their batteries. Would you be shocked if you bought a TV remote and the battery was $40?
The fact that it's soldered into the device and that it's so expensive isn't surprising to you or me because we visit Slashdot and other sites that reported the iPod battery fiasco. We knew this was coming. Millions of phone buyers did not see this coming.
*pulls the battery out of his macbook and throws it at the OP*
I've tried to replace the batteries in my el cheapo Samsung phones when they would no longer hold a charge, and guess what? Bell Mobility wanted $75 for the special clip-in battery. It was cheaper to throw out the phones and upgrade to a new model for a small fraction of the price of the battery. It's a total scam by the provider, and it only encourages our mentality that things should be disposable. Apple's fee here seems like a bargain by comparison.
Yeah right. Because early adopters who were willing to drop $600 for a phone and sign up for a 2 year contract with it are going to be so put off by an $80 battery replacement. That is done for them. That they probably won't have to worry about for at least a year. By which time they'll be ready to move on to a second gen iPhone anyway. Not trying to say Apple isn't hosing their customers with this, but let's be honest: People who got an iPhone before this was made public aren't going to care one bit, despite what they might whine about.
Seriously though, I think it's fairly likely that Apple seal their batteries in and slap a high price tag on replacements to encourage people to buy a new model rather than maintain their otherwise functioning device. It's quite cynical really.
- Cellphones have a mean life span of 2 years, and a new-gen battery will hold that much without the need of replacement.
- Ad-hoc replacements are a deal-maker/breaker only in business situations where one really needs to be in contact, so a dead battery is not option but, the iphone is not for business scenarios.
- However, high drain (screen and wifi) might change the situation described in the other 2 points; and for 500 dollars, one might want to hold of the iphone for more than 2 years.
SO i really don't knowI take my children to see Madonna(..), but I never for once ever thought I was in the same business.Chris Rea.
I guess if you were a little old lady and had battery trouble, he would either help you or punk you. Maybe we should ask Jobs?
The fact that the battery could not be swapped out without being sent to the manufacturer was public knowledge 2 months ago. I'm surprised you dont have to buy a completely new iPhone, which was the implication back then.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
Wipe it off with Steve Job's turtleneck.
Captcha: "enslaved" - hillarious.
*Sigh*, now I'm afraid of opening the fridge. iPhones everywhere...
But on this issue, I have to side with them, only because I have never once had to change the battery in a cell phone. It seems I've always bought a new cell phone before the battery really degraded to anything poor.
After all Samsung is getting paid for the chips whether or not Apple sell a phone. Selling parts to your competitors is actually a good policy for mitigation of risk. If the IPhone takes off enough to put a dent in Samsung phone sales then Samsung is still making money from the chips as oppased to losing business on phone and letting someone else sell the chips to Apple.
Okay, yes, it's high. About the same price that it costs for the iPod. So it's actually not that surprising. Additionally, if you look at the cost of batteries, they are expensive. Plus, the iBattery is blessed. Which costs money.
I will admit, charging for the loaner phone sucks. I know with Verizon, if something bad happened to my phone, they would just give me a new phone. I'm not saying they should just give new iPhones, but charging for the loaner is somewhat rude. They'll get it back. I'd even be fine putting a deposit on the phone in case something happened to it. But it's a design flaw they put into the phone.
That definition was created by a politician just so he could have an excuse to call his opponents insane (thus invoking the ACTUAL definitions in the minds of the listeners, even though THOSE definitions don't apply).
In fact, what you have defined could also qualify as persistence, which is generally considered a virtue. While there is a fuzzy area between persistence and learning-disability, the important points to remember are: 1) that area is fuzzy, 2) neither qualifies as "insane."
Incidentally, here are the definitions I just looked up:
1)Mental illness or derangement. No longer in scientific use.
In Law:
2)Unsoundness of mind sufficient in the judgment of a civil court to render a person unfit to maintain a contractual or other legal relationship or to warrant commitment to a mental health facility.
3) In most criminal jurisdictions, a degree of mental malfunctioning sufficient to relieve the accused of legal responsibility for the act committed.
4) Extreme foolishness; folly.
5) Something that is extremely foolish.
Even though the treo is dated, it works well in so many ways.
/, and .com buttons in web browser kbd)2 512.htme nt/accessories/10-95--2230.htmw are.showsoftware&PartnerREF=&siteid=1&prodID=13173 5
/ why-the-iphone-.html
r eo-755p-in-september/
I played with an iphone on Wednesday. There are some issues that would make it a show stopper for me.
-Keyboard stinks. Best way I could get anything typed accurately was hold it in one hand and point with the other.
-No correction in web URLs and email addresses, so you have to be perfect.
-No period in the keyboard (period,
-Touch buttons too small. Although my Treo 650 screen buttons are often too small, but I rarely use them)
-No removable media (Why switch to mini SD Palm? idiots)
-No video recording
-No editing MS word documents
-No EVDO (Edge was slow when it worked, 755p may have EVDORevA at 600kbs)
-No stereo bluetooth (http://www.softick.com/bluetooth-audio/)
-No third party applications (Chess, new browser, core media player, etc)
-No laptop networking using phone (http://www.junefabrics.com/palmnet/)
-No removable battery (Like 2x capacity third party)
http://shop.treonauts.com/content/accessories/---
-No way to quickly dial contacts
-No way to navigate single handed (five way rocker rocks)
-No tactile feedback (I like a click when I hang up the phone)
-No GPS addons like
http://hardware.smartphonetools.treobits.com/cont
with free software links to free google maps
http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=soft
More iPhone limitations from
http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2007/06
-No exchange integration for online calendering
-No hacks for "push" email
-No voice call recording
-No voice dial
-No cut and paste!
-No task list!
-No global find!
-No file encryption
-No podcast download over the air
iPhone does have:
-Slick gui (that gets in the way, browsing on safari was stinky. Zoom and scroll, zoom and scroll, not too impressed. Sideways was nice)
-Wifi built-in
-Widescreen
-More MP in camera (2.0 vs 1.2 in treo 755, both suck)
-Thin form factor
-Glass screen (more fragile than treo?)
-Did I say sexy GUI?
Neither have-
-Built in GPS
-Flash in browser
-Wireless networking for letting laptops online easily
So the Treo pros outweigh the cons. I am sticking with a new 755p as soon as I can get it, which looks like September.
Crossposted from my comment on another board:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8918/verizon-t
... I was just commenting on this in a closed forum the other day. I agree, an average cellphone is probably shipped with a battery good for the life of the phone. Of course, you can define "life of the phone" differently when I know I'll pay $10 or less for a new RAZR in two years, a far cry from $600 or so for a far cooler toy.
But that's also ignoring that the usage pattern is going to be different, if you buy an iPhone and actually use it. I charge my RAZR every 3-4 days or so, but the iPod is supposed to be a phone, an MP3 player, a PDA, a bad pocket (-ish) web browser, etc. That means you're charging it every night if you actually use it for this stuff. A modern Li-poly cell is going hit the 80% capacity mark at 400-500 charges... which means you're in serious battery hurt before you're halfway through the second year of your contract.
Of course, there will be plenty of folks who just buy this as a toy and use it like a plain old everyday phone. There's not enough flash for any real video use, anyway, and chances are, anyone buying one of these already has an iPod, so maybe it doesn't actually get used "for real" by enough users.
And anyone watching Apple for very long already knew this would be the case -- no user serviceable battery, just like the iPods. It's all about Jobs' ego, that it would just be horrible to have a couple of screws in the back of the unit (like my Sandisk Sansa), allowing easy and supported user-replacement of the battery. Better still, for a phone/PDA anyway, would be an actual detachable battery, like my RAZR or my Zaurus. But Apple has always been about style over substance, and hey, whatever serves the cult... I was never a potential customer for this anyway.
-Dave Haynie
Is everyone forgetting all the other companies that have had battery problems? What about Sony and all their issues? I don't think this is so much an Apple issue as it's an electronics issue.
If the battery is a NiMH or LiION, you tell the charge via the voltage. There is a curve to it. If somebody decides to replace the battery with a much bigger one, then it may not get the full charge (though hold more than the original), which will piss off owners. This way, apple can guarantee quality.
Now, with that said, I am of the opinion that these batteries should id themselves and give information about their curve. Perhaps a small rom with a serial interface.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The expectation is that you're an ignorant twit who won't comprehend why your phone died, and will simply toss it and buy another rather than seek expensive service for it. Certain corporations like Norelco, Braun, Black & Decker and many others have been making mass-market electronics with embedded batteries for years with the express intention that it will guarantee an obsolescence of no more than perhaps five years. Now Apple joins the sordid ranks. Is that a surprise?
Soldered Battery - what kind of moron thought of that?
Big noses, lotsa money.
The end.
In the spirit of things, shouldn't it be:
*pulls out his ++SPARE++ Macbook battery and throws it at the OP*
Well, someone HAD to foot the bill for Steve's pharaonic keynote and hype.
What? You wouldn't ever think it would be the customers? Oh, I see you are sooo shocked!
If it's an Apple Fanboi in the bed, most definitely another male.
Unlike other phones that have their own custom batteries designed to fit their cases and where that model gets phased out in two years and the replacement battery supply ends?
It's like printer ink cartridges except you're allowed to fill them up until they wear out, then you have to pay a lot to get a new cartridge that even fits your printer (and refilling them improperly wears them out faster).
Imagine if there were no standards for any type of battery, where each flashlight required custom batteries from its manufacturer. Maybe it's time we demanded standardization for phone, camcorder, and laptop batteries, and no more of this "use of other than [device-brand] batteries will void your warranty".
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
When it comes to cell phone batteries, this really isn't all that bad costwise, sure having to send it away sucks, but it cost me just as much for a new battery for my Nokia phone, and I had to put it in myself. It's not like it's just a couple of AAA NiCD batteries in the phones..
Who needs more than 640k anyway?
Just used my last mod points.
No big surprise here. This is just planned obsolescence. You aren't supposed to replace the battery, you are supposed to chuck the unit and buy the latest model.
It might sound wasteful, but it actually makes sense when you think about how these are positioned in the market. People who buy high-end fashion items are not the type to recycle them or keep them going a long time. By the time the battery is not performing well, there will be a new model that is even 'cooler' then the current one. After all, the up front cost of the item is probably small compared to the operating cost so it's not going to hurt you that much to buy a new one. This is the sort of thing that Apple is brilliant at.
Here is the reasoning. I have seen iPods just being swapped out for battery issues. No down time, just resync the music. Now, if applecare is available for the phone, and if they treat the same as the iPod, then this could be a very good thing for users. Instead of spending almost $120, and doing two resync, I wonder if the sales pitch for applecare is going to spend $80 and just leaving with a phone.
Clearly, this is not as good as paying $50 for a spare battery, but if it happens, it will certainly be ok.
Of course,they may just not supply applecare for this product, which means this is another reason not to buy it. I don't want to be stuck with a two year contract, and have the device fail 14 months in. This is exactly how the cell companies keep customers on perpetual contract.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
$85 is not that unusual for this kind of labor. The phone has to be mailed in, and people need to keep track of it (which in the modern job, is complicated, because people are so mentally addled they often lose things at random). Then it has to be opened, the battery replaced, and the unit tested. While I wouldn't want to pay for it, given the cost to Apple, this isn't excessive.
technical writing / development
Precious Roy, Precious Roy, Makin' lots of suckers out of girls and boys!
I can think of rational reasons that the iPhone is not a good corporate phone, e.g., it needs integration with Exchange. But it won't put Powerpoint on the screen?? I'm sorry, any corporate drone that tried to show me a Powerpoint presentation on a phone would get kicked out of my office.
1) Battery replacement, is exactly the cost I was expecting from the iPod. I've never had to replace my iPod battery personally (1st gen used daily, lightly) and from normal usage patterns I am thinking an iPhone battery should on average last about two years.
2) The main complaint with replacing the battery was, that you would have to send it off and be without a phone. Well of course you could simply take the SIM out and use it in some other phone for a few days during that process, but Apple has provided a great alternative where you get to keep using an iPhone during that time. What other cell provider or manufacturer provides a loaner while your phone is under repair? That to me seems like fantastic news, that people are just ignoring even though it addresses a very compelling complaint.
3) If you're still on about the battery needing to be replaced for longer use, there are many iPod external battery packs, that will serve just fine for long flights. Those are just as bulky as a spare battery, which I never want to have to carry around anyway and would realistically consider only for flights... plus of course the iPhone charges via USB, which offers lots of options for charging.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Not to be a complete Apple fanboi (and yes, I do have an iPhone), I don't see that much of a fuss. The rental should be a free loaner, though. That part kinda sucks. But $80 to replace the battery every couple of years doesn't really seem like a problem. First of all, the battery life on this is way better than it has been on either of the Treos I've had (and I had the 3200ma extended battery in my old 700p - even with that the iPhone does better) so I wouldn't see too much need to swap it out manually. One charge lasts a long time. Secondly, most phones with Li-Ion batteries have expensive replacements from the manufacturer as well.
What I'll expect to see down the road is 3rd party replacement services at some point (soon, I think) - they'll probably have mail-order services that send you a loaner and have you fedex your iPhone for the swap. This phone is only a week old. A lot of things are going to change before the first unit wears out its battery.
Then again, it wouldn't be Slashdot without a good panic!
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
It's an overpriced yuppie toy status symbol for the same tools who pay $50 for a "status brand" T-shirt and buy a new cell phone every six months. That's why it's only designed to last that long. Apple figures they'll sell 3-4 of them over the course of the contract they're locked into. And you know what? The desire to have the latest "cool" thing plus the notoriously short attention spans of these people means they probably will.
/. is well behind the power curve: iPhone costs about $220 to make. I guess I should be happy to get three dupes of some MIT wunderkind's latest too-cool-for-school case mod involving a pizza box or something.
Basically, Apple put a cell phone into an iPod and tripled the price. And to get it, you must sign a two year contract with the execrable AT&T Wireless (f/k/a Cingular) and pay full retail for the phone. Used to be that you got a break on the phone for signing a contract, no more. Apple knows that the idiot lemmings will flock to their stores and gladly plunk down $600 for a non-subsidized phone that you (1) cannot unlock, (2) cannot change the SIM card in, and (3) cannot even replace the battery.
As usual,
I'll stick to the BlackBerry, thank you very much. I can unlock that and use somebody else's SIM card when I travel overseas rather than pay exorbitant roaming charges.
For those of you Apple fanboys who think I'm just a hater, I'm typing this on my Mac Mini. I'm going to do work later on an iBook G4. Apple does make some great products, including the iPod, but they've screwed the pooch on this one bigtime.
This was reported on MacRumors on Monday.
As a previous poster said, if that $90 in 2-3 years is a deal-breaker, you shouldn't buy an iPhone in the first place. Of course, by the time you actually need to replace the battery, Apple's price will have gone down and/or cheaper 3rd party replacements will be available.
Also, it would appear that Apple is using a high-end (and therefore expensive) battery in these things. All of the reviews confirm an extremely long battery life. So, I'm not sure that $90 including labor and shipping represents price-gouging at all (I guess that's the charge being made in this story, since it's never been a secret that the iPhone battery is not user-replaceable).
No.
It is only overpriced if it doesn't sell.
By definition, the iPhone is not overpriced, because people are willing to pay the asking price.
Peter
For all the complete idiots who thought this was the one new device that would finally fill the hole in their lives and make them truly happy....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
For all the idiots who blindly buy any new apple product thinking it will make them cooler than everyone else....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
For those who haven't learned that buying the first version of a product(especially one that's in a new area for a company) is a bad idea....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Have we had problems with the iPhone battery yet or are we just finding things to be outraged by?
My stupid Samsung phone eats batteries, I hate it. The replacement battery costs 40 bucks, and the "extended" battery is something like 50... and Sprint doesn't warrant it. IMHO The $80 price tag is steep -- but probably not awful if the battery lasts a long time.
With the mandatory service plan, you're basically buying a $2000 phone. Anyone who can afford that, shouldn't blink at a $100 repair bill. The time without your phone is a much bigger deal than the price, although a loaner (covered) and a seamless sync procedure to get your data into the loaner (remains to be seen, but knowing Apple, that should be the case) would mitigate that problem.
From http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html, on the bottom of the page:
h tml
"Rechargeable batteries have a limited number of charge cycles and may eventually need to be replaced. See www.apple.com/batteries for more information."
You can then get to this link from the batteries page:http://www.apple.com/batteries/replacements.
"iPhone Owners. Your one-year warranty includes replacement coverage for a defective battery. You can extend your coverage to two years from the date of your iPhone purchase with the AppleCare Protection Plan for iPhone, which is expected to be available in summer 2007. During the plan's coverage period, Apple will replace the battery if it drops below 50% of its original capacity. If it is out of warranty, Apple offers a battery replacement for $79, plus $6.95 shipping, subject to local tax. Apple disposes of your battery in an environmentally friendly manner."
Do I agree with the policy? No, as I wish I could replace the battery myself. But, it is stated there on the website, even if its buried. If you google "Apple Battery Replacement", the official Apple iPhone battery page comes up ranked seventh.
Did anyone expect otherwise? Honestly, if battery replacement is important in regards to your purchase, you should research it online or ask at the store. But I don't think most people care. If you get AppleCare on the phone (2 Year Warranty), if your battery dies you get a free replacement if it goes below 50% charge. Every other Apple iPod based product has the same policy, and, the iPhone is much more iPod than it is MacBook Pro.
That being said, I understand if someone new to Apple products was upset, since, the majority of mobile phones allow the battery to be replace by the owner. However, with the large amount of iPod users out there, I doubt most will be shocked to find that the battery can't be replaced.
In other news, early adopters get screwed. Again.
I wouldn't be surprised if the battery has a built in expiry date too, after which it "fails" (for your safety of course) and you have to get a new one. Hey if it works for printer ink, why not batteries?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
I used to have a Treo 600 where the battery was not user-replaceable - had it for three years and now my mother's using it, and it's still going strong, without a replacement battery. Since the Treo doesn't use much power, the battery would easily last for a day or two with reasonable usage, which is not bad considering the touch screen, SD card, GPRS, etc.
It all depends on how quickly the battery ages.
I got my truck a few years back, and after driving it around off road and such, its time to replace the shocks. Every car owner knows that the shocks will have to be replaced eventually, and that some people like to replace theirs before going off roading and again when done, and that driving off road over bigger bumps and hauling heavy stuff wears them out faster, but the brand I bought decided to use special nuts that hold the shocks on tighter, so now Im going to have to go to a service center authorized by the manufacturer to get them replaced at a cost of about 10% the original price of the truck! Why didnt they tell me that the shocks used special nuts before I bought it??!?!? How can they charge me so F'n much to keep using my truck that I already bought?!!? Why cant they just use normal nuts and bolts like everyone else?
BLAH!
1. Do you expect a manufacturer to sit down with you and list line by line everything they did thats "Different" from other manufacturers? Every part they soldered in instead of clipped? How the case is heat-welded instead of screwed together? How the antenna is integrated and cant be replaced and has no way to attach an external one to it without serious modifications? How the software it runs has certain lockouts in place that allow and prevent certain features as they see fit? I bet if you ask about certain qualities, like "how hard is it to change the battery" they will gladly tell you before you buy it. Its not like they are holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy their product. If you dont like the design, dont buy it! If you are concerned about battery life, ASK, and if you dont like the answer, DONT BUY IT!
2. Phone batteries, like shocks on vehicles, tend to last quite a long time these days, as technology has increased their performance to that point. I have actually had my truck for 5 years now without needing to change its shocks, and have had my current cell phone for even longer and am still on the original battery, which can still go a few days without a recharge (not quite the week and a half it did when I first got it, but still). 3. Actually, I would much rather they just soldered my phone's battery in place and have a solid case around the whole phone rather than deal with its tendency to fall off, since the release lever is in a place that your finger tends to hit when pulling the phone out of your pocket, its quite annoying and led me to actually glue over the release. The iPhone was designed with that in mind, instead of having access panels that can fall off, create seams and lines and stuff in the case, they made it sleek and seamless, and knowing the battery will last years before needing replacement, they soldered it in place. I would rather have it soldered than risk a connector coming separated inside there with no easy access to just re-connect it. To de-solder and re-solder the two tabs would take less than a minute if you have any soldering experience.
4. Shocks, like batteries, are not cheap to begin with. This goes even more so for higher-end parts, like the Li-Ion batteries in the iphone, or special heavy-duty off-road shocks on trucks. 10% of the original cost is about right for higher-end OEM shocks (hell, the shock on my mountain bike is well over 30% of the total cost of the bike, and its not the most expensive one out there), including labor and everything, and 15% sounds reasonable to me for the cost of the battery replacement on the iphone, considering they could have just said "F you all, we wont replace any batteries, so when it dies, its dead!".
5. The iPhone is a little different from everything else in the industry, and is the main reason so many people are buying it. Comparing it to a plain old cell-phone just doesnt work.
Tm
Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
Funny, I knew the battery would have to be "upgraded" by returning it to Apple at significant expense, leaving me without a phone for the duration. And all I have is public info that was pushed at me in the past few months - I did no proactive research into the iPhone.
It's a stupid design, a waste of time, money, energy. It's obvious that Apple rushed to market rather than finish a design with a longer-lived battery, or at least user-replaceable. For that matter, I've always bought an extra battery with every new mobile phone, because phone power management is highly unreliable, while I rely on the phone. Apple's design stops even that basic risk mitigation.
Next up will be people figuring out that AT&T's EDGE wireless network, at max 300Kbps, is too slow (and probably unreliable) to be more than the same old trick. Hopefully they won't be so discouraged by figuring out the battery burned them that they won't pressure Apple and AT&T to deliver a faster network, even to such a small UI.
I'll be interested in an iPhone once its design is ready for its market. Not just when Apple's marketers are ready for its market.
--
make install -not war
if you were already stupid enough to drop $600 on a phone, what's another $79! Like buying a huge fucking house that you can barely afford and forgetting about property tax every year. Stupid people.
I don't think it's a big issue. We have multiple iPods and cell phones that are well over 2 years old and we've never had a battery failure with any of them.
We also have a ton of rechargeable AA and AAA batteries for cameras, remotes, wireless XBox and PS controllers, etc. Many of them have had hundreds of charge cycles. We've yet to pronounce one of them "dead".
I'm glad Apple published the price and plan. If the battery fails, I know the cost. BUT, I doubt that I will have a failure before I get the 2G or 3G version of the iPhone.
FWIW.....
I am my own gestalt.
Exactly, what makes the iPhone different? Every other phone i've ever seen has had a user replaceable battery. Pull tab, or push button, battery pops out, replace and you're done. Take an additional charged one with you and you get double the device usefulness.
shame on me
isnt this an old apple story "cool" stuff that is not well made at a high price ?
I don't know which is more offputting - ignorant reviewers like poge of the new york times or stpid consumers who think there is something "cool" in paying a lot of money
the 60s are really gone: what is "cool" about some large company that only cares about overpaying its top execs
how is that cool, other then being part of an evil sick system
Dont forget the pain and hassle of being without your cell for however many days/weeks it takes to actually get it fixed.
I dont know about you, but when my Motorola battery dies, I dont consider the phone broke, but with the iphone, it is. I go to the store and buy a new battery and I am good to go. You have to send the phone off and wait.
A dead (broken) battery on an iphone is on par with a broken screen, etc. IMHO, which is unacceptable.
This is like having a flat tire and having the following telephone conversation on the roadside:
You: "yeah, my tire is flat and I cant find a jack or a spare anywhere on this new car."
Dealership: "I'm sorry sir that your tire is flat. Have it towed in to the dealership and we'll get that replaced. is tomorrow OK to get it back to you?"
You: "Tomorrow?!?!?! Its morning rush hour and there are two other cars here that ran over the same box of nails, and they are almost done repairing the damage themselves!"
Dealer: "Yes, I know its only 7am, but you know how these things go... Repairs take time!"
I can see the next apple invention... the iFlashlight. Its not just a flashlight, its a SOLAR POWERED flashlight! No batteries needed!
OOOH!!! or from the new Apple Defense Contracts Division, the iSubmarine... it has screen doors!
Farking idiots.
A bit silly, in the context that nobody really knows for sure yet, given the iPhone has been out for a week.
There are some advantages to having a battery that is user-replaceable (you can have multiple, so you can swap them for longer battery time; you can replace it should the lifespan start to stink), but given how much thinner the iPhone is than other devices (it is SERIOUSLY thin... it's about 5 mm thick versus 1.2 or 1.3 for the Treo), I'd guess that perhaps they went for size/shape/tactile goodness rather than putting a panel on the back that could be opened.
I think he threw the battery after posting, thus making his comment pre-relevant...
Of Code And Men
My LG VX-6100 battery was going to be $60something plus 7% tax- and thats for a battery that doesn't require resoldering/dissasembling my phone fore. Since my one year was up on the phone, I bought a new one at new contract price and for about $10 less than the cost of the old battery, I got a new phone with bluetooth. I realize replacing the iPhone at $500+ isn't as plain an option since the phones aren't subsidized, but my point was that another $20 for a resolder job and not having tax isn't too crazy.
To replace a sim card all you need is a pin. Really, all you bashers should just go to the store and check it out in person. It HAS a SIM tray. It works great, and dare I say it, it's not that expensive for what it is.
Anyone willing to submit to Apple's digital rights management schemes, and their "I want a computer to treat me like an idiot" deserves what they get. Really.
Let 'em pay.
- - - Non Caffeine Drink or Drink Error
Recent stories revealed that the FBI and other agencies can listen to the microphone in your cell phone even if it's "off." The only way to get around this is to remove the battery, which you can't do with the iPhone. Many companies and government offices require that you remove the battery from your cell phone if you want to bring it on the premises (so you can still bring it in your car for safety, but not bake the battery while you're at work). Again, you can't do that with the iPhone.
Everyone knew since January that the iPhone had a non-replaceable battery. It was in every article discussing the pros and cons for the last six months. How is this a surprise? The price is little different than Apple used to charge.
The price will go down, as 3rd party companies will sell their own replacement kits, like the iPods today.
Exactly, what makes the iPhone different?
They sacrificed ease of maintenance for battery life, size and robustness. It would have to be thicker to have these things and the same battery life. Contacts add resistance and heat build up. Doors that open increase device size and decrease case strength. They could have made things easier with screws, but even those would require a larger size.
I don't like the non standard battery size game that device makers play, but Apple is not special. They at least will support the device into the future, which will result in a lot fewer devices thrown out.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The iPod is supposed to be the most popular MP3 player, and presumably (yes I'm stereotyping here), these consumers are more likely to be the type of people to purchase an iPhone. When I paid my $65 + $6.95 S&H to replace my iPod battery, I considered it a "deal"... as the first one lasted 3 years. I would have spent far more on AAA batteries (rechargeable or not) in the same amount of time: I use my iPod ALOT. Of course, once people break them, your local Batteries Plus-type shop get ahold of one, et. Al, the price will come down.
...actually gets you either a brand-new or factory-refurbished device.
It's not a bad deal after years of use.
I'm surprised that a company like Apple wouldn't design the iPhone such that when you opened it, an encryption key in SRAM is cleared. Opening it would disable the phone until serviced by Apple, who can legitimately claim the warranty is void. They can claim that this feature is for copy protection and send anyone who dares to work around it to Club Fed.
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
Lithium Ion Polymer.
Hmmm. Aren't these the batteries that are more dangerous than Li-Ion? The ones that RC toy owners are told to charge near a bucket of sand in case they explode?
"Millions of phone buyers did not look for this."
Fixed that for you.
If you attempted to get this information before you bought, and were unable to, you can complain, but only a little. It should have been a warning sign that you were unable to get the information from Apple.
If you didn't bother to ask, tough titties. It's not Apple's fault you were too short sighted to seek out important information.
Only the wheels will be welded on. None of this wheel nuts nonsense for apple :D
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
does Nintendo void your warranty if you choose to change the battery yourself?
the iphone is marketed as a phone, as such the battery should be replaceable without cracking the case. Market acceptance and industry reaction should be very interesting 10-18 months into this products life
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The iPhone currently requires a two-year AT&T service commitment, but only has a one-year warranty. So if it dies during year two, you're really stuck. Apple is promising to announce an extra-cost extended warranty.
The out of warranty service fee is $199 to $249.
...will probably fill the needs of those whose professional obligations require mobile conversations all day and looking cool.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
When I called the consumers that waited in queues for this monstrosity and then started complaining morons, I got modded down. Now, we see more articles like this, where people - who were made well aware that the battery was irremovable - are going "oh noes! Apple is overcharging us! Whatever will we do! :(". What the fuck did anyone expect? All of the problems this thing had were ignored by idiots who wanted to be the Cool Kid On The Block(TM).
I said it before, I'll say it again, and I don't care who thinks it's flamebait: anyone that queued for this thing that complains now is too stupid to be able to say anything, and I personally hope they have nothing but problems. I hope this costs these people over a thousand dollars, and becomes famous as an all-time worst bust, for the way Apple abuses their consumers, people who are too enamoured by pretty gadgets to realize how badly they're getting screwed.
Let's stop dilly-dallying and just change "-1: Overrated" to "-1: Disagree" or "-1: Doesn't Subscribe to Groupthink".
If you are going to carry a spare battery for your phone in your pocket then you have to buy such a battery. That adds to the cost of the phone you are carrying right now. You also have to have a means to charge that battery. A lot of people would use a cradle that can charge the battery sans phone. In any case they already paid the ~$49 OEM price or less for a cheapy chinese knockoff with exagerated specs.
Now with the Iphone, you have a battery with twice the capacity of the competing smart-phone batteries. Actually if you consider what the phone is actually powering--a fast processor, wifi, and big screen--the battery is likely even larger than twice the capacity. So it's not a cheap battery.
When it dies some day replacing it would be, the equivalent of replacing two of the half-capacity interchangable batteries on your smart phone.
For that $79 seems like a very fair price. In the mean time you have not been hauling around another battery in your pocket and having to fret about keeping it charged.
people are whiners.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
This seems like sour grapes for what I have found to be a great product so far. The iPod batteries going all the way back to the first generation are not truly a user replaceable item. You have to spend forty bucks to get OWC to do it. Why such shock and outrage about the iPhone battery!?!
If you looked at the pictures and watched the video Apple released prior to the 29th, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the iPhone is not meant to be pulled apart.
Instead of waiting in line like a tool for four days, people complaining about battery life could have waited two days after release (like I did), futzed around with one before you bought it, and EASILY figured out the battery is not a user replaceable item.
Let's get real... the iPhone is a do-everything device in a form factor nobody expected to be as small as it is. You have to give up something somewhere... in this case, it is the battery... suck it up.
The iPod has to be turned in to have the battery replaced as well.
For the next twelve months, the battery is no problem. If a battery loses too much of its capacity or stops working, then it is broken and gets fixed under warranty. For the next six or so months, few batteries will need replacing, and then the number will grow slowly.
Within twelve months, plenty of people will figure out how to replace these batteries cheaper than Apple does and make money doing this. There will be alternatives to handling an exchange. For example, a repair shop could invest in half a dozen used iPhones, then let you swap your own (used) iPhone with low-capacity battery for a different (used) iPhone with a brand-new battery, so you don't have to wait and you don't have to return to the shop. Or they could let you trade in your used iPhone for a brand new one, then resell the old one with a new battery. Within eighteen months, batteries will probably be improved, so you might get more battery life than in a brand-new iPhone.
If you think Apple's battery replacement is to expensive, then it is a market opportunity for someone.
I really think that it's absurd that Apple chose to make the battery non-user-replaceable. I mean, there's a reason every phone in the history of cell phones has let you replace the battery yourself, it just makes sense.
I know this is a real bitchy response. Sorry in advance.
I remember when the first iMac was released without serial ports or a floppy drive. It was USB and cdrom only. I remember one of those Kim Kommando AM radio guys predicting failure for the product based on the lack of a floppy disk drive alone, not to mention there wasn't even a USB printer available on the market for it. The iMac became the biggest selling computer model of all time.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
You haven't had a problem. That's great. Other people have.
Now... I don't think anyone claiming this is a surprise is being completely honest. This is similar to the iPod battery replacement policy, and everyone's known about that for years, and people have been pointing out that the battery isn't field-replaceable pretty much since the iPhone was announced.
But... it's still a big issue.
It's just an issue we've actually known about.
'some of them might be waking up now, wondering who they got in bed with.'
More like some of them might be waking up now in a bathtub full of ice wondering where their kidney is at!
if you can afford a $600 phone now, you can afford 87 bucks to replace the battery in a couple of years.
really, what did you expect?
This is why I refuse to even consider getting an iPhone until the 2nd generation version is released.
They're going to find glaring problems that will be fixed a generation or two down the road.
Question everything
About two weeks ago, my 11-month old son found my wife's cel phone, managed to knock off the battery cover, and crawl around playing with it. It took us a week to find it, and in that week, her phone was unstable because the batteries would pop out. Another time with another phone, I dropped it and the cover cracked... used masking tape for a bit, and realized that it was time for a new phone anyway. Number of cel phones where we lost the battery cover in the past 5 years, 2.
The last time I replaced the battery on my phone was my Samsung i330 where I bought the extra-length battery for around $50 to last longer, and it's battery time remained shorter than the iPhone. This was back in 2002 or 2003. Number of batteries I've replaced in the past 5 years, 1.
So given the choice between non-user accessible battery covers, or a slightly more expensive battery replacement in the unlikely event that I need to replace the battery, I think that Apple made the right call.
If you bought an iPhone without being familiar with Apple, and without doing preliminary research, and can't accept this battery replacement policy, you need to understand something: it's entirely your fault. No one forced you to buy the iPhone. Anyone that plops down $670 for a product without doing preliminary research on the company deserves what they get.
For instance, searching for "apple battery life" on google, gives this as the first non-apple result: iPod and iPhone Battery FAQ. This site was updated with information the day of the launch of the iPhone.
Personally, my iPhone keeps on growing on me every day. I feel that it's going to just get better over time. If I hadn't bought one, I would definitely get one of the 2nd gens and I may upgrade to that anyway, and sell my used one on ebay or give it to my sister.
Yeah... and I had to order a very overpriced (and underpowered) replacement power supply for a dead one in an HP Pavilion, on several occasions... and a proprietary Gateway power supply in one of their slim form-factor PCs, and one in an eMachines tower once..... Oh and don't forget the Dells that had what LOOKED like a standard ATX power supply, except with power leads swapped so the motherboard got fried when you used a regular ATX power supply in place of the original. Had one of those too.....
It's funny how "vendor lock-in" is used as though it's a unique reason to avoid Apple products, yet I see examples of it rampant with ALL the major PC vendors.
Truthfully, Apple's replacement battery program for the iPhone doesn't strike me as all that unreasonable. The battery in my Moto Razr v3c wore out after about 8 or 9 months of use, and a good replacement for it cost me over $50 at a local cellphone store. So for an iPhone, I might get a few months more use out of their battery than the really slim and relatively low-capacity Razr batteries, and will have to pay about $29 more than I paid for the Razr's replacement? Big whoop.... Yeah, I know. I have to *send it in* for repair. But Apple should give you a postage-paid mailer for this if it's like everything else they do. So the mail-back part should be pretty easy and painless... and a 1-2 day turn-around? I think we can probably live without a cellphone for 24-48 hours, can't we? If not, then pay the $29 for the loaner iPhone. The total isn't much more than you pay in a month just for the service, right?
You just paid $600 for a phone (that you knew had the battery sealed inside). How much did you expect parts and labor to be?
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Exactly.
Does anyone else think this is a pattern, first the iPod now the iPhone; maybe apple should be looking into better battery technology....
It seems like I saw the cost of the battery as early as the release date, if not before. This consumer thing is a lame attack.
*pulls the battery out of his macbook and throws it at the OP*
Where it *EXPLODES*, killing everyone in the room...
(Or was that the Sony batteries?)
I just checked the first phone I could think of... the $179 Motorola RAZR v3. Batteries from Motorola cost $42, about 1/4 the price of the phone itself.
People who pay THREE TIMES as much for a phone aren't going to be particularly put out by paying TWICE the cost for a very good battery. This is just fluff criticism used only by those that don't want, don't like, or begrudge iphone.
Frankly, it reminds me of Bart saying "I'm a concerned citizen with too much time on his hands." This type of argument is so pointless... it's like complaining about how many MPG a Bugatti Veyron gets. The people that own one think you're an idiot for even asking.
Considering there is no way in hell the battery is replaceable, that's pretty cheap.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
maybe you aren't the "target market" for the iPhone. Just a guess. And since when has Apple's hardware, upgrades and maintenance not been expensive? How are people surprised by this? To Apple's credit, you tend to get what you pay for....hardware that is well designed and lasts significantly longer than the cheap Chinese "Scamtech" components you find at Fry's or budget PC manufacturer like eMachines or Dell (Now available at Wall Mart!).
Badges!?! We don't need no stinking badges!
What's a much bigger deal (to me) is that I can't swap a battery in an emergency... I travel a great deal for work, and there have been occassions where unable to get to a power outlet to recharge.
Since hurricane Katrina, I've kept a spare battery in my overnight bag, as I was stuck in Florida without power and a nearly dead phone. Those times are the ones I depend on my cellphone the most, trying to call my airline (flight canceled, can I rebook?), friends and family (is everyone alright?), rent-a-car companies (can I drive to Jacksonville and get a flight outta there?) all in a small window of time. Not being able to swap in a fresh battery is a major CON for me, and maybe a few more nerds like me.
FWIW - my LG VX9800 plays mp3s, and I purchased spare batteries on eBay for $15 each.
To me, the most important reason to have a user-replacable battery is run-time. If I am traveling, and my battery runs out of charge, am I expected to either hook up the car adapter (if it has any), or find somewhere to plug the AC adapter/charger in?
V for Vendetta: People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
So, while the iMac *line* of computers may have sold a lot of machines
To clarify my earlier statement, I was referring to the original iMac model as selling more units than any other model of computer. I have to jet, so I can't look up a reference to substantiate this claim, but I am very confident of this record.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Good grief, those batteries must be really bad if people already want to replace them...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Makers of consumer gadgets very often price their non-warranty repair and maintenance services based on the perceived will to comply with the social status surrounding their device. This is why it costs so much a) to buy anything "Apple" in the first place and b) to keep it running smooth (assuming it ever did so in the first place). The "Cost of Social Compliance" concept is nothing new and is usually first-year business school fodder for their revolving-door MBA programs.
Some devices, you'd just throw away when the battery died rather than pay to replace it, and others, like something from Apple, have a high social reward attached to them (praise from friends and strangers, etc), and therefore they can extract more from you to keep them running...
Since when has servicing an Apple product ever been affordable? Easy, yes, but affordable, never. People who are willing to shell out the cash required for an iPhone aren't about to balk at the price for a replacement battery. Not only that, but by the time they need a replacement, they'll be wanting whatever the next generation gadget is that's replacing it.
Apple knows their portable device customer base: people who are willing to buy a new device every year for incremental upgrades.
(Disclaimer: I think the iPhone is the coolest thing since sliced bread, I just value my money)
If you can't find a real troll, just mod down whoever you don't agree with!
already said what I thought when I read your post. Barring accidental destruction by the owner, Apple products are intended to last a long time. I've seen five-year old Apple desktops (with a bit of RAM added) run the OS of the day well for heavy multimedia applications, both back in the caveman days of OS 9 and up to 10.4. The last place I worked had a Mac from 1996 still used to get things done.
Apple products are more expensive, but with that comes the expectation that they are of higher quality and will last longer. No amount of Apple magic is going to make that battery last longer than that AT&T contract, especially if the owner uses it 4+ hours a day. Judging from the behavior of most people with cell phones and iPods, this isn't an unreasonable expectation. Cell phones use a small amount of juice constantly. The iPod portion won't since it is flash, but any video or internet usage tends to use a lot of energy. The average user will have to replace their battery at some point, and it will needlessly be a pain in the ass. Apple deserves no excuses here.
I picked up an EXTENDED battery with my Motorola Q last year on sale for $20 (down from $40, I think). The Q's battery pops out in about two seconds and a monkey could replace it.
... but still. Having to ship your phone back for battery replacement sucks.
Not that the iPhone isn't cool in all kinds of ways that the Q only aspires to be
Sony doesn't tell people how much it would cost to replace there power supple on their TVs, and my blender didn't come with a statement telling me how much it would cost to replace the motor, and none of my mother boards post how much it will cost to replace the battery on the motherboard. I think the gravy train just rolled in! get me a lawyer.
Shit people, grow the fuck up.
Let me know that when the battery fails in 5 years if you give a damn.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The point is that the battery is affixed to the module and non-replaceable by the end-user. There could be dozens or so companies making replacement batteries for most cell phones that will not cause you to void a warranty or potentially damage your device if you use them; however, the iPhone's battery is soldered in place and requires the opening (and potential damage to) of the phone to replace.
As for vendor lock-in claims, yeah most people do it, but I think you overstate everyone doing it. I can state that Compaq PCs (at least for some time) had ATX power supplies. How do I know this? I replaced their motherboard with a standard ATX board off newegg. Laptop power supplies? Well, I have seen generic branded ones at Best Buy, including one for my work laptop (an ThinkPad T43). And even Dell apparently is using standard ATX these days. There are plenty of reasons for everyone in the PC world to use standard ATX for mid-size and larger desktops that can hold them, cost. It is simply pointless to have a proprietary item when you can order them in greater numbers in ATX forms and use the same PS across all platforms of varying ages. As for losing out on locking-in your customers, well most of them will either a) buy a new PC or b) order the part from you anyway because they are typically not educated enough about PCs to know they can pick one up down the street.
Apple and Sony are the gods of lock-in.
For some people Apple is just not good enough. Don't take offense to it, just realize that some people like playing with their computer hardware as much as they do with the software. I personally have a Apple Macbook, a Win XP desktop and 2 Linux notebooks(Mandriva and Ubuntu) and a spare Linux desktop. There is a difference between all the different hardware but I like what I can do with it all.
No, it's not rampant. Dells, HPs, and even Gateways now use standard ATX, or, in some cases, SFX power supplies.
Unlike, say, the Mac Pro.
Apple did this to avoid the issues that Nokia has had with exploding 3rd party batteries. No user replaceable batteries means fewer counterfeit batteries. It's a safety issue, honest!
I am not a fan of the iPhone. Well, more specifically, I am not a fan of how Apple is treating iPhone customers. The iPhone HARDWARE, as a device, is terrific. It is the locked-up software that really tweaks my dick. I feel Apple has missed a giant opportunity and slapped their developer community in the face with their "no SDK" policy.
That said, is this really that big of a deal? Anyone who is ACTUALLY upset about this can take five minutes to learn how to use a soldering iron and change the thing themselves. It's solder, folks. It's really not that difficult. No one will even have to worry about this for at LEAST a year.
(This post written on my trusty 2.16GHz Macbook Pro, btw.)
+++ATH0
The only battery liable to be replaced for the next two years will likely be the ones in iPhones left uncharged in hot cars all this summer. So in a year and a half, or so, the first ones will wend their way to Apple. You will note what happened to the iPod I lost, long story, my original iPod in the trunk of my car for a month while I had operations and hobbled around on crutches. When I found it, the battery could no longer hold a charge longer than two or three hours. So, that was a year after the release. There were, in that case, these services on the web that sold you a lithium battery for $30 and they shipped it to you with directions, a video on their website, and too silly pieces of plastic that helped you get the top off. Now there are many places, non-Apple, which will do the job on later iPods. And Apple will be more sane about the subject.
So in a couple of years, battery tech will have improved, and the third parties will have a fine business installing new batteries in iPhones for maybe $30-$40, with the soldering thrown in. And I'll bet Apple will have blushed by then. As FSJ says, I wonder who Goatberg is in bed with?
"No, the problem is that almost all cellphones on the market now have user replaceable batteries"
And the iPhone is just like every other cell phone, right?
"That has been the expectation for the average user for at least the past decade."
And by expectation, you mean assumption. And you know what they say about assuming, it makes you look like a fucking idiot.
So iPhone complainers ASSUMED the iPhone was just like other phones (dumb) and they ASSUMED that Apple wouldn't repeat a previous mistake (dumb) and then bought the phone without an answer to the question of battery replacement (dumb) and are now blaming Apple.
No sir, I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. The people who bought it are pissed because they didn't do their homework and got stuck and need someone to blame, nothing more.
The same was true of the iPod when it first came out, and before the aftermarket kicked in. Does anybody here really believe that Apple has a little Apple Battery factory that chuns out batteries just for their phones and iPods? C'mon. Obviously they are buying some off the shelf battery from an industrial supplier, or battery mfgr. When iPods first hit, replacement batteries were like $99 IIRC. Now you can get aftermkarket kits for like $20-30. It's like going to your car dealership to find they charge like $30 for a button top that can be had form a parts house for $3.
*catches it, auctions it on eBay for a gazillion $$$, and Apple Fanboys have started a bidding war on it thinking its a bargain*
Get one of those USB battery things and charge the phone off of that. Not exactly difficult, is it? Besides, you'll have to constantly keep swapping batteries to keep that spare from dying.
But hey, I like a phone I can throw around, so I use those $10 prepaid phones and not worry about damaging it.
It's not surprising to me because I've bought cell phone batteries before. They were expensive, and they had lower capacity than the iPhone battery.
The real question is how long until it needs replacement. My experience with cell phone batteries has been that they are good for a year, maybe two. If I have to send it in to be fixed (and they aren't doing it while-you-wait at the Apple Store by then), I hope it lasts more than a year.
... just like with every other manufacturer.
See, what Apple has is user-friendliness appeal. They are excellent at indistrial design and aren't afraid to push the envelope with their ideas. Apple products just look freaking cool, and MacOS is a really superb OS.
But Apple is out to make money, and you can see it from the premium they charge. Even though you can get cheaper products from Dell and HP, you also get less, because they all have profit margins they have to make in order to stay in business. No body is going to give hardware or services away for free. So as nice as the people are in the Apple store, their job is to sell you something so that you give them money and go home with a new gadget. Never forget that.
As much as I would hate to drop MacOS, the next time I buy a new computer, I'm going to seriously consider the alternatives to a Mac. Why? Because I want to make sure that I get the best deal, and only I am able to do that. They certainly aren't going to. Apple won't tell me that I'm better off buying a Dell. The reason I keep mentioning Dell is that they have this warranty plan where if the computer gets hit by a brick (i.e. damage not their fault), they'll replace it. Apple should have that. Another thing that drives me nuts is dead pixels on LCD screens. I'm going to favor whoever has a better policy on that. I'd pay extra just for the right to exchange for a single dead pixel.
You need to figure out what's important to you and make sure that what you make an informed choice. And be aware that the 'best' choice cannot be a perfect one.
Well needing your phone to be running is that important to you, it'd be stupid to buy a 1st gen iPhone. A failed battery is only going to be one of many problems that could occur on the road.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
"It's funny how "vendor lock-in" is used as though it's a unique reason to avoid Apple products, yet I see examples of it rampant with ALL the major PC vendors".
Which is exactly why i build my own. Incidently its also the reason why i will never own a mac, i like to monkey about with the hardware. And no im not bashing apple, osx is very impressive. i just dont like the idea of being sold a complete system by anyone.
Well, Bart, your uncle Arthur used to have a saying: "Shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out."
maybe you aren't the "target market" for the iPhone.
I know I'm not. I have no intention of paying $600 for a phone from a company that coudln;t figure out how to put CUT & PASTE on it or boasts about it's interner prowess but can't take a pheon call if I am surfing the web.
Apparently having any sort of respect for yourself means your not Apples target market.
--> Fight tyranny and repression.... read
I sure hope Apple review's this policy. Its unacceptable, frankly. This is how Apple has behaved for years. Why are they given a pass? Or are they?
Sammy at Personafile
I had a $200 Norelco electric razor. When the rechargeable battery wore out, Norelco told me to throw the razor away and buy a new one.
Really? See, I keep a charger with me. I also keep it charged so it's ready when I need it.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Hey, saw a dude with that Apple sticker on his 15 year old VW Polo the other day. Always wondered where you were supposed to put that, spent a while looking all over an IMac for the space too.
Rule number one: A phone is not an accessory. Don't wear it around your neck or on your belt.
You know I can't remember the last time I had a contract for a mobile phone that didn't offer a cheap upgrade within two years. I just swapped a nokia 6310i for an e65 costing me 130 euros.
It was even cheaper back in the UK but the monthly costs were slightly higher, here my deal is currently 18 euros a month although missus Vorlich's is a wee tad higher than that.
So 600 bucks for a mobile phone, that kills me, that does, you could buy a Xbox 360 and spend a year sending it back to Microsoft for repair and still have enough change to buy a Wii too.
I mean, what does any need a mobile phone for, apart from taking pictures, telling the time, timing things like pasta and rice and getting grocery lists by sms? Oh, yeah people call me about business and it can detect a hidden wifi or a nintendo ds.
Can't wait until Hackaday has something on that.
It's so useful...
Beam me up, Scottie.
Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
Putting the battery into a case which cannot be opened easily and plug it into a tiny socket on the PCB board (as with the iPods) is one thing.
Putting the battery into a case that cannot be opened easily and, in addition to that, solder it to the PCB board (as with the iPhones) is a completely different kind of thing.
I wonder what the typical timing for some crucial events will look like with the iPhones.
I guess it might be, on average
- period of warranty for iPhone hardware ends; then
- battery fails, leading to purchases of either batteries or, better yet, replacement iPhones; then
- service contract (i.e., with the cellphone provider) ends
If so, that would be a truly innovative aspect of a business model, based on a little soldering.
I guess that it's kinda like the p... poor battery in the IPOD and the that it costs to have Apple replace it.
That at least was not soldered in. I just replaced it myself.
I guess Apple has learned from their mistake. Now, unless you are prepared to solder, it looks like Apple will have you by the Nuts.
http://davesboat.blogspot.com/
I hear Apple is going to make a fuel-efficient automobile, too, though you'll have to pay a mechanic to torch off the soldered-on gas cap in order to refill it with gas, then weld it back on.
Loaner cars will be $139 per day, minimum 5 days rental (though, in practice, the repair will take about 18 weeks), and the day "ticks" at noon, so even if they repaired it in 1 day, and you returned the car that afternoon, it would count as two days.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
How's that Kool-Aid tasting now suckers?
Does anyone know if there are other public consumer-grade mobile phones out there that you have to SEND AWAY to get the battery changed?
Is EUR 37 which is (at this moment) over $50. And then I'll have to install it myself.
Besides, I've had it for over 2 years and the battery is still fine.
So unless iPhone batteries tend to wear out much faster, I'd say:
Nothing to see here, please move along..
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
Are people actually paying close to 20 quid for official iPod SOCKS??!!!!! I rest my.... uh, your case.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Soldering in the battery seems like a good engineering decision to me.
Since batteries have gotten better over the years, it is unlikely they will need to be replaced in the life of the phone. Battery contacts are a significant point of failure. Having a battery door and users opening the phone ads a significant point of failure. For the iPod, there is a third party market for battery replacement that charges a fraction of the price that Apple does to replace the battery. High capacity cheap external battery packs are available for iPods if you're worried about running out of charge on the road.
True. This is a problem (and an onoging one) with many/most "brand name" computer manufacturers. But if you don't like it, it's a pretty simple choice: Go to Newegg, buy an Asus/Gigabyte/Abit/whoever motherboard, buy a power supply from whoever you like, and build a PC. Haven't seen anyplace that lets you do that with Mac parts yet.
Yeah it might cost $50 as your local CELL PHONE STORE but what kind of idiot would actually purchase one of the batteries they sell there, when they could just as easily order the equivalent battery from a reputable Ebay vendor for $6.99 (shipping included).
I had to replace the original battery in my LG VX6100 after about a year and guess what, the Hong Kong battery has lasted longer than the original name-brand one.
To me, it is extremely distasteful that Apple would go to such great lengths (soldering in the battery) to prevent 3rd party iPhone batteries from being easy to install. I think this may even be true for iPods (can someone confirm?). These shenanigans just reaffirm my belief that Apple hardware (and a lot of name-brand PC hardware) is for the rich and/or clueless.
I can't think of a single phone ever that didn't charge you for a replacement battery. But most people replace their phone before the battery dies anyway.
All this concern over batteries is just FUD. I'm entering this from my iPhone and the battery always lasts long enough to ent
iPod batteries are removable. Or at lest on some models. Of course, you have to completely disassemble the thing, but there's no soldering.
"I'm a Laver, not a Phyto[plankton]"
His point is you can't always get to a live power source for the charger to work. A second battery works in an emergency and is portable, but a charger is not.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I bought a RAZR replacement battery 3 months ago off of eBay for $5 and it works great.
Your example sucks.
Ironically, the only part of my Ericsson phone that broke down is the battery lock. I'm now using tape to keep the battery inside the phone. This couldn't have happened with an Apple iPhone.
...the iPhone, I'd say it must be a pretty fantastic product...
I'll bet none of these whiners even bought an iPhone, and are looking for a reason to diss it because their momma's too cheap to buy them one...
There may be some issues with the iPhone, but IMHO soldered-in batteries is not even on the list as far as I'm concerned.
-- disclaimer: I don't have an iPhone and don't generally like the restrictiveness of Macs, but I can recognize pathentic arguments as much as the next guy...
You can get battery powered chargers.
One million people have now purchased a phone that uses 1990's technology for internet connectivity, cannot be used to connect a laptop to the internet, does not accept third party programmes, does not support MMS and has a soldered-on battery. And the best of it: it is the most expensive mobile phone of the decade. It costs more than any other phone costs seperately even with a subscription in a price range that would normally give you an expensive phone and a game console or a laptop for free.
It has a great interface, however. I suppose that's the only thing people care about.
OK, considering how much the iPhone costs, I think the "loaner" should be free. I've had free loaner vehicles when taking my car in for service. Come'on!
Since all external iPod batteries work over the dock connector, they are in effect chargers too.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It takes time, so it isn't free.
No, but it's very convenient. What happens when other phones break? Can you even get a loaner of the same type?
And of course, you could simply use the SIM in some other phone if you were willing to forgo the iPhone features for a few days (more reasonable than being without a phone at all).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They care about aesthetics.
Yes they do. And so do I (since I'll be holding it a lot).
But it's not just that, a custom battery leads to longer usable life (since it can be a bit larger) and THAT I find very useful day in and day out, compared to the one day a year I may have to send the phone in.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Vendor lock in:
Yes, they all do it, but like so many other things, Apple is just better at it. Apple knows you'll accept their lock in, so they don't even really consider doing things differently.
Battery replacement:
a) There's no need to structure this so you have to wait for your phone to get fixed. With AT&T and Apple stores all across the country, why couldn't you show show up and just swap out your phone for a refurb? I know that wouldn't be as good for Apple, but, heck, maybe it would be helpful for the consumer. Of course, you could also just get an emergency phone that's doesn't happen to be an iPhone. An iPhone loaner would be seriously crippled without your personal data anyway so the difference between it and a P.O.S phone would not be so big that you couldn't get by for 24-48 hours.
b)Yes, this high cost is Apples fault. They have plenty of experience with pissed off customers wanting replacement batteries for iPods. They knew if they didn't offer a user-swappable battery that they'd be stuck with replacing the batteries for a fee. They didn't have to solder the damn thing in. They could have made the battery swap procedure simple enough for any clerk at the Apple store
Yeah, I know, integration and all that. It wouldn't be as stable, thin and pretty if they had removable this and that. But that didn't really require solder, did it? The cost of the labor was made excessively high due to poor planning for an important procedure. In fact, the planning looks so poor that it's hard to believe a detail-orientd company like Apple wouldn't have taken this into consideration. It almost looks like they want you to decide it isn't worth it to replace the battery when you could just put that $100+ dollars into a new iPhone with 16GB of storage and blinking disco lights. Isn't that what they used to tell iPod owners before they implemented their battery replacement program? Go buy another $400 iPod? Maybe they're just making sure you make that choice on your own this time.
This is ridiculous.
Every few months, my battery's memory screws up, and I have to leave it in the freezer overnight to reset it.
If you can't do this with an iPhone, expect to be financially reamed by Apple, over and over.
Get one of these guys:
3400mAh External Lithium-ion Rechargeable Battery Pack
Worked great with my iPod and the iPhone uses the same cable. In a pinch you can also recharge off your notebook battery via USB.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
....Of course I can do that, because I built it in the first place......
So then why don't you build you own version of the iPhone? Build your own car and wide screen TV and fabricate your own chips for them while you are at it. Modern technology or even not so modern technology requires many people working together. Some call that civilization.
I bet you would even have a hard time making your own pencils. Fell and mill your own cedar tree and go mine some graphite. Most people don't make their own pencils nor computers, but I suppose it might bring a measure of satisfaction of boasting that you are able to make your own pencils from scratch.
(...... just having the self built hardware and buying a Apple supported OS X?.......)
Apple doesn't build computers, they never have built so much as even one. They build a complete computing SOLUTION, in the same way Ford builds transportation solutions called cars and trucks. Dell, HP, Sony etc. all only build computers, the body, so to speak. MS supplies the soul to all personal computers, other than the Apple's Macs. Apple builds the body and then puts the soul into it they themselves created. If you wish, you can put MS or Linux souls into your Mac in addition or in place of the OSX soul put there by the creator of the Mac. However, Apple won't let you put the soul of their systems into a foreign body. The soul is therefore clearly more important than the body.
All theory is gray
Personally - I'd avoid most PC manufacturers. I've bought Dell for my current desktop and laptop because it was cheapest for the specs I wanted and still cheapest with 4 year on-site warranty. Admittedly I had to wait several months each time to catch just the right deal and specs.
I know quite a few people with Apple kit - they really like it and are happy with it - it is stylish and relatively functional; but have all had hellish experiences with customer "care" and warranties and sending stuff back for repair, and have had to fork out through the nose for some of the kit too.
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
The guy is not a reviewer, nor has he been kind to Apple.
He is a lawyer, and the founder of the consumer advocacy group 'Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights' which has a habit of suing Apple on a regular basis.
Apple Issues Battery Program for IPhone
New 'iPhone' Policies Needed, Consumer Advocates Warn Apple, AT Questions Raised About Battery Replacement, Cancellation Practices in Letter to Apple CEO Jobs
older
Apple sued over faulty iPod Nanos
Latest iPod lawsuit weighs on Apple shares
Notice that in the letter to Apple he's setting up his latest run at being paid off by Apple's legal department for extortion protecting consumer rights by complaining about Apple's behavior at phone lock-in, something which is a common business practice in the United States. Disagree with Apple's business plans all you like, but is this a reason for a lawsuit to line Harvey's pockets?
Come on, Slashdot Editors--for Christ's sake, I found all this out in five seconds by an internet search of the guy's name!
I seem to remember that LiIon batteries are designed with four levels of safety features. The fourth one is called "Vent With Flame", which does just what the name suggests - and that's a safety feature, to prevent something really bad from happening!
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
hack job on the iPhone! this is so predictable, yet so entertaining.
the iPhone is really a fantastic thing. here I am being amazing over and over yet I keep reading about how I should be irritated
people, listen up. I have one, it's the best phone I've had, period. it's also the best PDA I've had, period. it's also the best portable muisic and video player I've ever had, period.
and it's all in one package.
you may not need one, but that doesn't mean there is something wrong with *it*
If it is this critical to you, why didn't you check it before you purchased the phone? First thing I do when I buy a new phone is open it up and make sure I can service the battery, especially as I get into using more complex 'smart phones' that have higher consumption rates. If I can't replace it, it doesn't meet my needs, so I don't purchase it.
The point is Apple doesn't really care about maintenance costs, or maintenance inconvenience. They care about aesthetics. People are pissed off...
Apparently Apple believes that the emphasis on aesthetics, even at the expense of easy battery replacement, will result in a product that sells better.
It seems to me that they have good reason to believe this. The iPod had the best aesthetics of any MP3 player when it was released, but didn't have a replaceable battery. Yet I seem to recall that the iPod did fairly well in the marketplace.
This whole thread is equivalent to saying: "Can't replace the battery as easily as a Nomad*. Lame."
If the iPhone sells well, Apple will be proven right in their decisions, Slashdot's angstful whinging notwithstanding. You may prefer replaceable batteries. Apple understands the market better than you do. That's why Apple's making fat bank and you aren't.
*Yes, the Nomad had replaceable batteries. It used AAs, or at least mine did.
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
Regardless of this, Apple has always been one of the worst offenders in locking down their products and keeping third-party mods out. Clearly the iPhone is no different - no third party software, no after-market batteries
No, it's not rampant. Dells, HPs, and even Gateways now use standard ATX, or, in some cases, SFX power supplies.
Power supplies, yes. (THANKfully!) But I work on these buggers all day, and they're still apt to use proprietary drive mounts, motherboard trays, motherboard ports (for any case-mounted extenders, no matter how universal they are like USB headers), CPU cooler mounts...
Things have gotten better in the "a little bit better" way. They're not particularly good for any major OEM. Laptops, neither.
The point still stands about how this can be a valid angle of criticism of Apple in particular, since the practice has been widespread with basically everyone for ages. (Dell's been the biggest abuser of it, I've found.) Macs have been in their own little stratosphere for other, more obvious reasons.
That obsession is appearance over functionality --- I type this on my G5 iMac which is drop dead purty .... unless you want to plug in a USB device or headphones etc. There are no user plugs in the front of the unit - just a nice shimmering white surface. Thats nice until you want to change something or plug something in - and yes most of the jacks should be in the back but even PCs have a few on the front. Apple does some things real well - OS X - iTunes - etc. but they have gotten too obsessive / compulsive with the look and feel which I would call smooth and sealed. That is then compounded with unique shape / form-factor. All of this complicates any servicing etc. While the cost of the battery service may be comparable ... having to send it in is a total drag. I was considering an iPod Nano but may go with a brand-x ....
.... I'll continue on with my Linux boxes ....
As someone who worked on useability of HW + SW there is a middle ground where you can have beauty and servicibility / functionality. I feel Apple is too strident in the need to be different. When my G5 iMac gets the least bit flakey it will be sent to the recycle station
Its not the years, its the mileage
Replacement batteries at retail for most phones range from $25.00 to about $50.00, add to that the cost of someone disassembling the phone, soldering in a battery, and reassembling the phone. $79.00 is quite a deal.
What did people think the battery replacement service would cost?
I think the real shock is that a lot of people did not realize the iPhone doesn't have a user replaceable battery.
I'm sure we'll see Toyota Prius drivers with a similar reaction in the next few years.
-ted
A soldered battery means you cannot turn off this unit. It is always on. That is obviousely what apple wants. Suppose..just suppose, there is a room where you are like one of those 'intelligent dots' like in the old television commercial. Suppose you are one of those dots, and where you move, your dot moves accordingly on some map in real time with real GPS coordinates. With cell fone tech and included GPS on all new cellfones...yeah right..its for our 'own safety in case we get lost or something', your location becomes an open book and you in the words of the late George Peppard on his program "The 'A' Team": "You are bread on the window..we can get you anytime!" Wouldn't have one of those dog leaches (misspelling Intended) for all the tea in China. The damn thing is probably MADE in China. Buy one and maybe the Chinese have you backdoored there too. Hey was that you lingering at the beer counter in your local Wal-Mart? Ya drunk! Why someone will send you lots of junk mail beer ads!
Was that you at the candy counter at Kroger's? Why someone will check the corresponding records of Kroger Plus 'member' purchases to verify you as a diabetes risk and forward/sell that info to the Insurance Information Bureau so just maybe your health insurance becomes mysteriousely cancelled or its premium raised...or maybe you are laid off because your employer has been notified of your downgraded risk status and its potential effect on your employer's group insurance policy rates...
And as far as Vista goes, try running it on a one year old HP!
Dark Reflection
If it doesn't work for you, then don't get it.
Why does everyone think that everything they buy -have- to conform to their own agenda just because they buy it? If you need constant cell phone service, get a phone with user changeable batteries. No one is forcing you to buy and iPhone.
And if you don't have one, why do you care?
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Since when have any of Apple's portable products had user replaceable batteries? The ipods never have - subsequent third-party techniques notwithstanding - why on earth would the average user expect this Apple product to be any different just because they stuck ExtraFunctionX (i.e. a phone) in there as well?
The problem isn't that you're making assumptions, it's that you're choosing the wrong ones.
Has anyone had a battery die on them yet? No? So do we even have an idea about how long the battery will last? No?
Wow, the complaining about this may have even exceeded Vista for complaints before NOTHING happened.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
That said, it's overpriced for what it is.
Other smartphones with far more craptacular interfaces have been introduced at the same price. And those phones weren't widescreen video iPods.
And the people buying it up right now are only paving the way for Microsoft and others to fix up their mobile OSes to deliver cheaper devices capable of much of the same things as the iPhone. Only they will have replaceable batteries, cheaper cost (subsidized by the carrier), and 3G.
Sure, just like they are going to introduce mp3 players that are cheaper and have replaceable batteries and destroy Apple's 80% marketshare. They've had six years to do it, but I'm sure it'll happen any day now. Any day now....
Apple makes a habit of ensuring that you as a consumer are 'locked in' to their platform. In every way, shape and form.
Really? What part of ATA/SATA/USB/1394/DDR/DVI locks you into Apple, exactly? Ever heard of Boot Camp? Or their support of open source? Or how about pressuring the RIAA to start offering DRM free files on the iTunes store that will play on any device that supports AAC?
They are turning into yet another Microsoft, from another angle.
Once Apple has a monopoly, you'll have a point. Until then, you're just a PHB who reads eWeek so he can pretend that he knows what he's talking about.
I think Steve Wozniak (the designer of the Apple I) would beg to differ!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Soldered does have advantages too. I've been using cell phones for over 10 years now and I have had more than one where the phone kept switching of because the contacts to the batteries got coroded or bent out of shape. I can fix that myself but most other people would have to send it in for repairs.
This sig is just as redundant as the rest of this posting
Once out of warranty, it shouldn't be too hard to custom-mod the iPhone to accept an external battery. Taking orders now.
"You must try to forget all you have learned. You must begin to dream." -- Sherwood Anderson
Well, it's not an actual DRM, but it sounds like one. Too much restrictions.
The thing that gets me about this isn't that the battery isn't user-replaceable, it's that it isn't user-removable. The primary reasons to remove the battery:
Hard reset (without some other physical off switch, you may need this - yes, OS X does crash, and I can't see any reason the iPhone version should be any different.. certainly other devices have been known to hard lock themselves). On most phones, fixing this kind of a hard reset literally takes less time than holding down the power button (which doesn't always work); slide a latch or cover on the back of the phone and the battery pops out.
Water damage prevention. Phones get wet. Hopefully not often and hopefully not thoroughly, but it does happen. Hell, just a few nights ago (the 4th) a (fairly drunk) friend of mine got himself bodily tossed into the swimming pool with his phone in his pocket. When he pulled it out of his pocket the vibrator motor was going full tilt, the screen was behaving VERY oddly, and the buttons weren't responding properly. I got the battery out, put the phone and battery somewhere dry and warm to dry out, and hoped for the best. At least it wasn't submerged long - after corrosion (preventable by rapidly drying it out, flush with fresh water first if it was salt water), the most common issue is that Li-ion batteries aren't designed to have a bunch of (chlorinated, in this case) water enter them. The battery may swell up, leak, corrode its contacts (if they aren't gold-plated), or get its chemistry so disturbed it loses most or all capacity. If you can't open the case of the iPhone up and remove the battery easily, you will neither be able to prevent the battery from shorting out nor get it out of the water until the entire inside of the case dries (a prospect that may take some time).
How many times have I needed to do one or the other? A couple times per year. I would hope there's some form of hard reset available on the iPhone - the "wait for the battery to drain" method required by some devices is very annoying - but the iPhone is certainly not waterproof and yet there's no reason that a bit of water need guarantee the destruction of your phone (although the most common component to fail, aside formt eh battery, is the screen... which would destroy the iPhone's usability).
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
The battery is soldered in because
1 Cheaper to manufacturer
B More positive connection
III Hamper the aftermarket replacement
Since the vaunted iPhone doesn't have GPS capability, your tin-foil conspiracy looks rather lame.
While there are good engineering reasons for Apple's design decision, as well as income reasons, I wonder if Apple plans to take advantage of the future battery replacement to offer firmware/hardware upgrades. Since we all agree that AT&T's EDGE is painfully slow, and the phone appears to lack the hardware for HSDPA, perhaps Apple will offer an upgrade.
Of course, Apple has trained all of us iPod users to keep chargers at home, work and in the car, and to expect high-priced battery replacement. And they have trained us not to expect any form of upgrades.
Place nail here >+
About 30% of the consumer electronics nowadays that have batteries in them are hard to replace. Heck, my cordless shaver is an example I can think of right offhand. How about my palm pilot? Or my iPod? Or my pocket flashlight? Or your weed whacker? Or your solar yard lights?
We replace iPod batteries at work. None of them happen to be soldered in, but still, these devices were not designed for battery replacement. If you were concerned about battery replacement, why didn't you ask about it? There are enough "disposable products" out there nowadays that you can't say its assumed the battery in everything is replaceable, so if you didn't ask, don't whine.
There will be replacement battery kits available at our shop as well as most other local computer shops by about November when batteries first start going out. You may not have the equipment (soldering iron) to replace them, but you probably also won't have the tools or the know-how to take it apart without damaging it, so either way you're probably taking it in for the replacement.
Some things are somewhere between "easy" and "difficult" to replace. How many people have you seen just throw away their UPS when the battery dies, rather than try to replace it? (I count > 20, and I have about 10 nice working UPSs in my house as a result) My truck has a replaceable battery, and it's attached using special equipment too. I COULD replace it myself if I had the tools, the knowledge, and the inclinataion. In that case, I do have the tools, do have the knowledge, but it's more of a hassel than I care to deal with so I take it into the shop for them to swap.
If you thought that the smooth outer appearance of the iPhone, with no seams or hatches, was either not battery powered or would never need the battery replaced, you need to spend some time with a ClueBat.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Not everyone can live without a cellphone for 24-48 hours. I can think of a few reasons. One of which, people now use their cellphones as replacements for landlines. Parents whose children are in daycare, school, etc. need to be contacted if their child gets hurt. A businessmen using the iPhone wouldn't be too happy to miss out on a couple big deals he might absolutely need made throughout that service period. The bottom line for me is, I can live without a phone for 24-48 hours, but some can't. The iPhone appealed to a lot of different people. Some need a phone on more than others.
.....I think Steve Wozniak (the designer of the Apple I) would beg to differ!......
It was STILL a complete system. They did not slap someone els's software in it. They built the WHOLE computer from day one.
All theory is gray
- Add tax to the $85.95 if you're in a place where Apple has to charge sales tax (pretty much any state with either a store or office).
- If Apple decides that there has been "accident or abuse," they don't have to make the repair - and they can charge you $100 for not doing anything.
- Hope you don't have any critical data that you didn't back up before the battery went, because the replacment process wipes the machine clean.
I also just heard from someone whose kid had an iPod that had to go back shortly after purchase because the battery wouldn't hold a charge and who knew people whose iPods had battery problems starting a year after purchase. No, an iPod owner might not have a problem - or might.I agree with you on this. There are proprietary parts for nearly every gadget we use these days. I have lost many power supply units over the years... and I have been forced to buy proprietary replacements each time. As I wait for my Apple iphone to be delivered (I purchased off the Apple Online Store) I know I will confront many additional expenses as I use it over the years. KCAir at http://personafile.com/
Personafile
I couldn't agree more. And how the hell did this comment get modded -1 Insightful? Oh right, it really should be called -1 Anti-Apple. Or perhaps -1 Harsh Truth.
Which are larger and heavier than simply swapping a spare battery. Not elegant.
Oh and don't forget the Dells that had what LOOKED like a standard ATX power supply, except with power leads swapped so the motherboard got fried when you used a regular ATX power supply in place of the original. Had one of those too.....
Those were the very worst and nastiest example I can think of. If they just wanted a proprietary interface, they could have easily just moved something like the power on/power good pins to a ground. Causing the device to commit suicide just for using a non-dell part is simply evil. Even Windows didn't actually wipe the system out if you tried to use DR DOS, it just didn't run.
What is it with Apple and Batteries? It seems like every time the same stupid issue... laptops, ipods, iphones... what's next?
A soldered battery is COMPLETELY user replaceable. It doesn't take a genius to correctly operate a soldering iron.
I think it's a shame how people are responding to the whole "battery issue." Having been an employee at the Apple Store, I know how they handle their products and typical trends. 1. Most people never brought in iPods with problems until at least a year later. 2. The iPhone is FULLY covered for a year. (unless they can see that you destroyed it) 3. The AppleCare Protection Plan (available in July) will give TWO years of full coverage. [the following is an excerpt from Apple's Legal iPhone Warranty] http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/iphone.pdf "(1) YEAR from the date of retail purchase by the original end-user purchaser ("Warranty Period"). If a hardware defect arises and a valid claim is received within the Warranty Period, at its option and to the extent permitted by law, Apple will either (1) repair the hardware defect at no charge, using new or refurbished replacement parts..." There you have it. They don't charge you to replace the battery until your warranty is up AND the protection plan ($69) is less than the cost of a battery replacement. If you check the consumer reports, you'll notice that they'll tell you to NEVER buy protection plans or extended warranties... unless it's the Apple Care Protection Plan. You HAVE to pay closer attention to what you're reading and DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. Find the facts at the real site. http://www.apple.com/support/iphone/service/batter y/
(notice how it says "Out-of-Warranty")
Hope this information was useful.
Or they could have just made the fuckin thing unpluggable and called it a day. ;)
"The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."