Just a point, if people buy laptops or computers at that price with Linux, then it had better be as easy to use as some of the zealots here are claiming. Otherwise, it could earn itself a bad reputation. Ppl might assume Windows costs more because it's better.
I'm not a big fan of Linux, but I do wish it success.
"Hmmm... Street Fighter II (Arcade/SNES/Genesis/PC Engine/GB/PC/C64/etc.) Street Fighter II: Championship Edition (Arcade) Street Fighter II: Special Championship Edition (Genesis) Street Fighter II: Turbo (Arcade/SNES) Super Street Fighter II (Arcade/SNES/Genesis) Super Street Fighter II Turbo (Arcade/3DO) Super Street Fighter II Turbo Revival (GBA) Street Fighter Collection (PSX/Saturn) Street Fighter Collection 2 (PSX) Also, in the Alpha series... Street Fighter Alpha/Zero (Arcade/PSX/Saturn/GBC) Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 2 (Arcade/PSX/Saturn/SNES) Street Fighter Zero 2 Gold (Arcade(JP)) (Included in Street Fighter Collection 2 in America) Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 3 (Arcade/PSX/DC/GBA) Street Fighter III (Arcade) Street Fighter III Double Impact (Arcade/DC) Street Fighter III Third Strike (Arcade/DC)"
Don't knock it man. Some people refer to choices like that as 'distros'.
"we have seen this kind of thing before haven't we? Anyone remember Atari Jaguar? Ugh! There is no room for a fourth console in this market. "
Well, to be fair, these guys do have an interesting angle. Games are downloaded instead of installed via CD. The result is that they won't need to compete with shelf space against the other systems. This also means that even the oldest games would be available in a huge list.
That said, I'm not sure how they're going to gain any popularity. Problem number 1 is why buy one of these instead of just making a net-distro model for PC? Problem number 2 is if these things aren't on store shelves with lotsa games, how is anybody going to be aware of it?
I agree it'll probably flop. However, I would argue that it has enough of an angle to potentially ride some hype. Who knows? Heck, wouldn't it be cool if it came pre-installed with a game or two?
Out of curiosity, did you mean to reply to my post? I didn't say anything about point releases, OS's, or naming schemes. I just said that you can't buy non-Apple hardware. (or a large variety of it anyway, been a while since I've been Mac shopping.)
"Now, the PS1; cds are dirt cheap to make. Any production house can stamp out hundreds of thousands over the weekend. You didn't need to go through Sony. You could do a small run, or a big run."
Fair point. I think you make sense, but I'm not willing to concede for the simple reason that they're not the first to do it. PCs have an even lower barrier to entry (even in the PS1 days) and were quite successful with CD-ROM titles. Heck, people could put out games for free without any media at all, simply using BBS's and eventually the internet. That's how ID was started.
In any case, Sony was quite successful and I respect that. I'm just not willing to throw the term 'breakthrough' at it. The technology was already proven and the business model was made viable by the rapidy dropping prices of burning CDs. See what I mean?
"If you go to the library and just grab the first book you see, it's pretty unlikely you'll get what you're looking for either."
If all the books have the same title, then you're right. According to what you consider a 'non-moronic' process, I'd have to go through the books in the library until I found the one with the right number of pages.
"Just cause you're not paying for it doesn't mean it's entirely free."
"But the CD-I was a poor gaming device. The first order of business when creating a console is to make sure it functions as a gaming device."
Very true. The problem, though, is what is the cost of adding those features? Sony developed a DVD player into their console, and the result was an unsatisfactory experience for a lot of people.
"My main point was that an extra feature or two can push the system into more homes and Nintendo's view that people just want their consoles to be consoles is, I believe, wrong."
I don't think you've accumulated all the variables here. The GameCube was $100 cheaper than the PS2. The difference in cost meant a DVD Player. I'll admit that before I had a DVD player, the PS2 was mildly interesting to me, until I used it. (I rented a PS2 shortly after it came out.) The interface was horrible! (didn't have the remote, just the controller) So I went out and spent $100 on a DVD player that works really well, and I got a GameCube.
Will everybody see it that way? Definitely not, afterall we're all human. I can totally understand you wanting more stuff in your system. I can understand that, one of the deciding factors in buying my last two laptops was DVD playing capability. Can't say I've used it a lot, but I can understand it. I think there is a significant group of people who feel the same way. The question is "what's the majority?". Well, let me ask you this, if the GameCube came out for $300 with DVD playing capabilities, would you have bought it instead of a PS2? I'd be surprised if you would. It strikes me you'd buy the GC either way if you really really wanted it.
Okie, I've rambled a bit. Sorry about that, I'm scatter brained today. (hope I'm not sounding rude or anything) I will concede on this point, though: If somebody wants a PS2 but is leary about spending the money on it, a feature like DVD playing could tip them over. "Aww heck, I need one anyway."
"Gord has an interesting take on this over at Acts of Gord"
Yes, I've seen that site, but I don't think he's right. I read a magazine article back when the PS2 was launched (I think it was Next Generation, but my memory's fuzzy about it...) that broke down the costs of the system. Not only did it cost just under $500 to make, but the launch titles were not selling very well in Japan. People were buying the system because it could play DVD's, and players were expensive there. Sony needed to sell 2 games per system in order to succeed financially. That wasn't happening, though, because their launch titles sucked. There was some serious concern in the industry that Sony was damaging the market, hence the reason for the article.
Gord's site does not talk about the Japanese launch, nor does it actually provide anything but something some dude at Sony said.
"If putting your games on CD isn't a breakthrough when a console does it, perhaps you could explain why the N64 did so poorly, compared to said PS1?"
The N64 didn't do poorly. It did quite well. Being beat by PS1 isn't the same as doing poorly.
As for the PS1, I'll happily concede that it's CD-ROM choice did help in it's success. However, I doubt we'll agree on the reasoning. The PS1 had a shitload of games. (Mostly shit games, so it really was a shitlaod) The cost of entering the PS1 game world was very very low in comparison to the N64. The N64's choice of cartridges made publishing games very expensive and risky. It had fewer games and fewer people interested in it. Despite that, though, it's not clear that Nintendo's most successful games would have been any better with CD. Cheaper, definitely, but better in terms of game play? Doubtful. "Now loading..."
That's all completely off-topic, though. The PS1 was NOT the first, by far, to use CD's as a medium for games. It was not a breakthrough. It was successful, but not a breakthrough.
"The PS1 was not designed with 3D in mind? Oh, you think that Sony just thought that they'd release a bunch of 2D games for their baby BUT then just stumbled upon Jumping Flash, Battle Arena Toshinden, and Kileak?"
They threw in a processor that could do the vector processing. That's a far cry from "we have hardware to do vector processing, lighting, texturing/filtering, and load management". I don't think I need to get into it's 64-bit inner-workings.
"The fact is that the PS1 came out first and was built with 3D gaming in mind, as evidence see the linked articles later in the thread: the GPU was included for mainly 3D gaming."
Having a vector processor is not the same as designing a system with 3D in mind. That's like saying a Palm Pilot was built with playing video in mind because it has a color screen. There's a lot more to it than just one little aspect of it.
" Sony, NOT NINTENDO, pushed 3D gaming FIRST. "
If you're going to measure a game system that way, then the Saturn was actually the first system with 3D in mind. It has VPU also.
"I can guess why you take Slashdot so seriously - and it involves lonely Saturday nights. "
If you were right, that'd put a rather pathetic image in my mind about what you must be like. "I'm going to spread misinformation anonymously, I get my kicks from that!"
"The more functionality you can build into the system, the better. Now I know that Sony's DVD support hasn't been the greatest from that previous article (I've never had a problem with my PS2) BUT it's a feature that people can point to as yet another reason to buy the machine."
History would prove you wrong. The 3DO and CD-I come to mind...
"You cleverly copy-and-pasted that out of the linked above article. As anyone knows, comparing polygon counts is basically useless when it comes to video game systems. The only real way to compare them is to look at cross-platform games. "
Yep, you're right, to a point. If a game is made for one console and ported to another, though, you'll sometimes find that one version tends to suffer.
That's besides the point, though. I've read a few interviews with developers, and the concensus is that the XBOX whomps the GameCube's ass at some things, and the GC whomps the XBOX's ass at some things. Unfortunately, that's all down on a technical level. Put the two systems side by side, and it's real difficult to tell which one is which. This is the first time I've seen two systems so close.
" (since the Gamecube is much less powerful than a PS2; off the shelf parts vs. custom designed components? I think I'll take the custom job every time.)"
Psst, the GameCube is considerably more powerful than the PS2. Perhaps you should try sitting them side by side? Also, they are running on custom hardware. Don't you remember ATI's contribution to the system?
"And I called you a fanboy because you were offering false praise of Nintendo, specifically your contention that the N64 was the first console designed with 3D in mind. "
Okay, which console was it? It wasn't the PS1. I like how you attack the guy by describing his point as 'false praise', but won't go on to explain why he's wrong. The N64 holds a lot of accomplishments under it's hood in the realm of 3D. It was made specifically to drive advanced 3D graphics and it blew away the PS1. It was, afterall, a generation newer.
"Being only 16, if this actually affects any games I wish to puchase you can sure as hell bet I'll be getting them off kazaa."
No you won't. I scratched my GTA3 disc a three or four months ago so I went to Kazaa to download the game. I got some hockey game, an off-road driving game, and some game I hadn't even heard of, but not GTA3. They were all labeled GTA3, but they were the wrong game.
The result? I picked up a used copy to replace my damaged one at EB for $20. Shoulda done that in the first place.
Slashdot Mirror
"Not so tiny."
... uh.. crevice?
Is it just me, or does the shape of it look like somebody did a plaster mold of somebody's
"Why the hell is this on slashdot?
Christ next thing you know I'll be writing an article about my families crapping styles.
Not necessary. "
When you said "not necessary", you weren't referring to your post by chance, were you?
Just a point, if people buy laptops or computers at that price with Linux, then it had better be as easy to use as some of the zealots here are claiming. Otherwise, it could earn itself a bad reputation. Ppl might assume Windows costs more because it's better.
I'm not a big fan of Linux, but I do wish it success.
Don't knock it man. Some people refer to choices like that as 'distros'.
Damn I want this as a mod for GTA3.
"Some geeks have no interest in the opposite sex. "
Well it is a lot of work to become ambidextrous.
"What, you're tired of touching her?"
Well it did stop her constant complaining about being covered in cat fur.
"Unless of course we're talking about Microsoft; then we rant and rave and scream FUD and vaporware."
We also become candidates for a Pulitzer when we describe how Microsoft will take over the world with the XBOX.
"we have seen this kind of thing before haven't we? Anyone remember Atari Jaguar? Ugh! There is no room for a fourth console in this market. "
Well, to be fair, these guys do have an interesting angle. Games are downloaded instead of installed via CD. The result is that they won't need to compete with shelf space against the other systems. This also means that even the oldest games would be available in a huge list.
That said, I'm not sure how they're going to gain any popularity. Problem number 1 is why buy one of these instead of just making a net-distro model for PC? Problem number 2 is if these things aren't on store shelves with lotsa games, how is anybody going to be aware of it?
I agree it'll probably flop. However, I would argue that it has enough of an angle to potentially ride some hype. Who knows? Heck, wouldn't it be cool if it came pre-installed with a game or two?
" Well in all my years I have never once seen an issue so one sided..."
;)
Don't read the comments here much, do ya?
Out of curiosity, did you mean to reply to my post? I didn't say anything about point releases, OS's, or naming schemes. I just said that you can't buy non-Apple hardware. (or a large variety of it anyway, been a while since I've been Mac shopping.)
"Now, the PS1; cds are dirt cheap to make. Any production house can stamp out hundreds of thousands over the weekend. You didn't need to go through Sony. You could do a small run, or a big run."
Fair point. I think you make sense, but I'm not willing to concede for the simple reason that they're not the first to do it. PCs have an even lower barrier to entry (even in the PS1 days) and were quite successful with CD-ROM titles. Heck, people could put out games for free without any media at all, simply using BBS's and eventually the internet. That's how ID was started.
In any case, Sony was quite successful and I respect that. I'm just not willing to throw the term 'breakthrough' at it. The technology was already proven and the business model was made viable by the rapidy dropping prices of burning CDs. See what I mean?
"Seems to me it is time to consider a new design rather than a redesign..."
I agree. Throw out all the stuff that's proven to work 130 times and replace it with brand new stuff.
"If you go to the library and just grab the first book you see, it's pretty unlikely you'll get what you're looking for either."
If all the books have the same title, then you're right. According to what you consider a 'non-moronic' process, I'd have to go through the books in the library until I found the one with the right number of pages.
"Just cause you're not paying for it doesn't mean it's entirely free."
I had already paid for it.
"But the CD-I was a poor gaming device. The first order of business when creating a console is to make sure it functions as a gaming device."
Very true. The problem, though, is what is the cost of adding those features? Sony developed a DVD player into their console, and the result was an unsatisfactory experience for a lot of people.
"My main point was that an extra feature or two can push the system into more homes and Nintendo's view that people just want their consoles to be consoles is, I believe, wrong."
I don't think you've accumulated all the variables here. The GameCube was $100 cheaper than the PS2. The difference in cost meant a DVD Player. I'll admit that before I had a DVD player, the PS2 was mildly interesting to me, until I used it. (I rented a PS2 shortly after it came out.) The interface was horrible! (didn't have the remote, just the controller) So I went out and spent $100 on a DVD player that works really well, and I got a GameCube.
Will everybody see it that way? Definitely not, afterall we're all human. I can totally understand you wanting more stuff in your system. I can understand that, one of the deciding factors in buying my last two laptops was DVD playing capability. Can't say I've used it a lot, but I can understand it. I think there is a significant group of people who feel the same way. The question is "what's the majority?". Well, let me ask you this, if the GameCube came out for $300 with DVD playing capabilities, would you have bought it instead of a PS2? I'd be surprised if you would. It strikes me you'd buy the GC either way if you really really wanted it.
Okie, I've rambled a bit. Sorry about that, I'm scatter brained today. (hope I'm not sounding rude or anything) I will concede on this point, though: If somebody wants a PS2 but is leary about spending the money on it, a feature like DVD playing could tip them over. "Aww heck, I need one anyway."
"Gord has an interesting take on this over at Acts of Gord"
Yes, I've seen that site, but I don't think he's right. I read a magazine article back when the PS2 was launched (I think it was Next Generation, but my memory's fuzzy about it...) that broke down the costs of the system. Not only did it cost just under $500 to make, but the launch titles were not selling very well in Japan. People were buying the system because it could play DVD's, and players were expensive there. Sony needed to sell 2 games per system in order to succeed financially. That wasn't happening, though, because their launch titles sucked. There was some serious concern in the industry that Sony was damaging the market, hence the reason for the article.
Gord's site does not talk about the Japanese launch, nor does it actually provide anything but something some dude at Sony said.
"If putting your games on CD isn't a breakthrough when a console does it, perhaps you could explain why the N64 did so poorly, compared to said PS1?"
The N64 didn't do poorly. It did quite well. Being beat by PS1 isn't the same as doing poorly.
As for the PS1, I'll happily concede that it's CD-ROM choice did help in it's success. However, I doubt we'll agree on the reasoning. The PS1 had a shitload of games. (Mostly shit games, so it really was a shitlaod) The cost of entering the PS1 game world was very very low in comparison to the N64. The N64's choice of cartridges made publishing games very expensive and risky. It had fewer games and fewer people interested in it. Despite that, though, it's not clear that Nintendo's most successful games would have been any better with CD. Cheaper, definitely, but better in terms of game play? Doubtful. "Now loading..."
That's all completely off-topic, though. The PS1 was NOT the first, by far, to use CD's as a medium for games. It was not a breakthrough. It was successful, but not a breakthrough.
"Of course, when the battery dies, it really dies. "
If my experience with a Tomogatchi is any indication, this technology will be a moneypit.
"The PS1 was not designed with 3D in mind? Oh, you think that Sony just thought that they'd release a bunch of 2D games for their baby BUT then just stumbled upon Jumping Flash, Battle Arena Toshinden, and Kileak?"
They threw in a processor that could do the vector processing. That's a far cry from "we have hardware to do vector processing, lighting, texturing/filtering, and load management". I don't think I need to get into it's 64-bit inner-workings.
"The fact is that the PS1 came out first and was built with 3D gaming in mind, as evidence see the linked articles later in the thread: the GPU was included for mainly 3D gaming."
Having a vector processor is not the same as designing a system with 3D in mind. That's like saying a Palm Pilot was built with playing video in mind because it has a color screen. There's a lot more to it than just one little aspect of it.
" Sony, NOT NINTENDO, pushed 3D gaming FIRST. "
If you're going to measure a game system that way, then the Saturn was actually the first system with 3D in mind. It has VPU also.
"I can guess why you take Slashdot so seriously - and it involves lonely Saturday nights. "
If you were right, that'd put a rather pathetic image in my mind about what you must be like. "I'm going to spread misinformation anonymously, I get my kicks from that!"
"Is there any software to use Clie handhelds with Linux ?"
Yeah, it's called VM-Ware.
"We had to wait 18 years for the fourth star wars movie."
What are you talking about? The fourth movie came out in 77!
"The more functionality you can build into the system, the better. Now I know that Sony's DVD support hasn't been the greatest from that previous article (I've never had a problem with my PS2) BUT it's a feature that people can point to as yet another reason to buy the machine."
History would prove you wrong. The 3DO and CD-I come to mind...
"You cleverly copy-and-pasted that out of the linked above article. As anyone knows, comparing polygon counts is basically useless when it comes to video game systems. The only real way to compare them is to look at cross-platform games. "
Yep, you're right, to a point. If a game is made for one console and ported to another, though, you'll sometimes find that one version tends to suffer.
That's besides the point, though. I've read a few interviews with developers, and the concensus is that the XBOX whomps the GameCube's ass at some things, and the GC whomps the XBOX's ass at some things. Unfortunately, that's all down on a technical level. Put the two systems side by side, and it's real difficult to tell which one is which. This is the first time I've seen two systems so close.
" (since the Gamecube is much less powerful than a PS2; off the shelf parts vs. custom designed components? I think I'll take the custom job every time.)"
Psst, the GameCube is considerably more powerful than the PS2. Perhaps you should try sitting them side by side? Also, they are running on custom hardware. Don't you remember ATI's contribution to the system?
"And I called you a fanboy because you were offering false praise of Nintendo, specifically your contention that the N64 was the first console designed with 3D in mind. "
Okay, which console was it? It wasn't the PS1. I like how you attack the guy by describing his point as 'false praise', but won't go on to explain why he's wrong. The N64 holds a lot of accomplishments under it's hood in the realm of 3D. It was made specifically to drive advanced 3D graphics and it blew away the PS1. It was, afterall, a generation newer.
I can see why you posted anonymously.
"Being only 16, if this actually affects any games I wish to puchase you can sure as hell bet I'll be getting them off kazaa."
No you won't. I scratched my GTA3 disc a three or four months ago so I went to Kazaa to download the game. I got some hockey game, an off-road driving game, and some game I hadn't even heard of, but not GTA3. They were all labeled GTA3, but they were the wrong game.
The result? I picked up a used copy to replace my damaged one at EB for $20. Shoulda done that in the first place.