Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Nintendo Profits Drop As Gamecube Loses Ground

Posted by simoniker on from the mario's-cement-factory-repossessed dept.

Thanks to several readers for pointing to a Bloomberg Japan report reporting a likely fall in Nintendo's profits, as they lose market share to the Xbox and sell less Gamecubes compared to this time last year. They're still on course for a profit of hundreds of millions of dollars, mind you, but the article does say that "some investors criticized Nintendo for failing to announce any significant plans to boost its game business.. at last week's Electronic Entertainment Expo." Investors also seems worried about increased competition for the Gameboy Advance, in the form of Sony's PSP handheld.

70 comments

  1. Noooooo! by Deflagro · · Score: 1

    Only hundreds of millions!!? DAMN!

    --
    Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
  2. They should just do Software by brave1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hope Nintendo dumps the hardware thing altogether and focuses on making Software and Controllers. (Despite my best efforts, I've never broken a Nintendo controller.) Im my opinion, Nintendo is the best console game developer. You can pretty much buy a Nintendo 1st party game sight unseen. I'd love to be able to play Halo and Zelda on the same system.

    Plus, that would free up Final Fantasy to come out and play with my XBox.

    As far as competition from Sony on the handheld front is concerned, I'm gonna wait and see how big (and battery hungry) the thing is before I lay odds on Nintendo's chances.

    --
    - http://www.braveterry.com/
    1. Re:They should just do Software by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 5, Interesting
      You are wrong. Nintendo have in the past been the one force of innovation in the gaming market, both in software and hardware. Innovation might be too strong a word, actually, but they have succeded were others have failed miserably. The Gameboy, for example, was amazing for its time, as was the SNES. The N64 was the first, and for a while, the only console that was built with 3d in mind. But that is not really the point. The point is that Nintendo is not a software company that does hardware, or vice versa. They apply a holistic approach to gaming, they use their hardware experience to innovate in software (Mario 64), and they create hardware to create a different level of interaction (remember the first time you saw the N64 controller). It just happens that the current console is less innovative than the past nintendo consoles have been but there are a few things you cannot find anywhere else (gameboy connection, wavebird, etc)

      I don't care whether I can play Zelda and Halo on the same console. Face it, if you are a true gamer you are pretty much forced to have all three major consoles, plus a gameboy. And I definitely do not want Nintendo to copy Sony's strategy. Sony are doing quite well, no need to have more of the same. I want new things, and Nintendo have been there. Less so in the past year or so but I think it is more likely they will bring something that will astonish the gaming market than, for example, Microsoft.

      --
      Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
    2. Re:They should just do Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      "The N64 was the first, and for a while, the only console that was built with 3d in mind"
      The original Playstation certainly had 3d processing power. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by being built with 3d in mind, because that's pretty ambiguous. Look at Battle Arena Toshinden. The Playstation was "built with 3d in mind." - whatever that means. As you can see if you compare the PSX to the N64, they both have a chip devoted to graphics processing, so if you were thinking that the N64's GPU was a first, you were mistaken. Don't be such a fanboy and realize that it is rude to begin a post with the statement "You are wrong."
    3. Re:They should just do Software by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Disagreeing with someone, tactfully or not, does not merit the branding of "fanboy". Fact is, I enjoy games and Nintendo offer an oasis of innovation where others walk with fear of putting out something new. They never take the easy way out, and even when they disappoint, they do with style (Mario Sunshine).

      As far as the 3d capabilities of the n64 and the psx are concerned, the psx's 3d capabilities are laughable compared to the n64. That is what I mean. It was the N64 and mario 64 that pushed the console gaming world to 3d. You had NOTHING like that before.

      As I said in my original post, perhaps innovation was not the correct word. But the N64 era had games that were absolutely unforgetable, and they pushed gaming in a different direction. Yes, they have lost the edge now and, much as I love Zelda's latest outing, it does not amaze me like Ocarina did. Metroid was a surprise, yes, but I guess we'll have to wait for the next Nintendo console to see true innovation.

      The "you are wrong" part, btw, refered to the assertion that Nintendo should stick to software. I think he was wrong, and I said so, writing a couple of paragraphs framing my ideas a bit. If I offended you, well, it was not my intention.

      --
      Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
    4. Re:They should just do Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      "the psx's 3d capabilities are laughable compared to the n64. That is what I mean. It was the N64 and mario 64 that pushed the console gaming world to 3d. You had NOTHING like that before."
      But this is nowhere near what you posted - you said that a console had never been designed with 3D in mind. That is simply not true. Admit that you were wrong, don't try to shift your argument. And as far as the laughability of comparing the PSX to the N64 - I can compare a SNES to a PSX and it's laughable the other way, or I can compare a PS2 to a N64 or a Gamecube (since the Gamecube is much less powerful than a PS2; off the shelf parts vs. custom designed components? I think I'll take the custom job every time.) and again it is laughable.

      And I called you a fanboy because you were offering false praise of Nintendo, specifically your contention that the N64 was the first console designed with 3D in mind. When you spread mistruths about a company, you are a fanboy in my mind.

    5. Re:They should just do Software by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      Gamecube having off the shelf components? The only off the shelf thing in the Gamecube is the processor, and that has been HEAVILY tweaked by IBM. If you think the Cube is less powerful than PS2, well, sorry, I'm not in the mood for feeding trolls, look at the games and judge for yourself. I thoroughly enjoy PS2 games but that does not make the console more powerful than the Gamecube.

      My assertion that the psx did not have 3d capabilities was wrong. However, 3d gaming took the form it has today (beyond Tekken etc) because of Nintendo innovation. Simple as that. They defined a genre, much as Metal Gear solid defined another.

      --
      Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
    6. Re:They should just do Software by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 1

      Live long and prosper, "bigger person"...

      --
      Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
    7. Re:They should just do Software by jefflinwood · · Score: 1

      I own all three, and GameCube has much, much better graphics than PS2 for pretty much all of the games. XBox has the best graphics (Panzer Dragoon Orta is beautiful), but GameCube is right up there with it.

      I don't know anybody else who has PS2 and GameCube and thinks that the PS2 has better graphics. I don't think that the PS2 even supports 480p, but I could be wrong about that.

      --
      Tips and Tricks for Mozilla
    8. Re:They should just do Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The hard facts: Nintendo claims the GameCube can do 12 million polygons a second peak performance. That's pretty nice. Sega claims that Virtual Fighter 4 runs at 63 million polygons a second on the PS2. That's where you have someone remind you that you're drooling. I contacted a few programmers who are actually working on the GameCube. The consensus was that the GameCube is easier to make better looking games on in a short time, but if given longer the PS2 would outperform it. Another point raised was that the GameCube has 24MB of RAM that can easily be used for program data. The rest is reserved for audio and is too slow to be used for anything useful.

    9. Re:They should just do Software by jefflinwood · · Score: 1

      You cleverly copy-and-pasted that out of the linked above article. As anyone knows, comparing polygon counts is basically useless when it comes to video game systems. The only real way to compare them is to look at cross-platform games.

      --
      Tips and Tricks for Mozilla
    10. Re:They should just do Software by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      " (since the Gamecube is much less powerful than a PS2; off the shelf parts vs. custom designed components? I think I'll take the custom job every time.)"

      Psst, the GameCube is considerably more powerful than the PS2. Perhaps you should try sitting them side by side? Also, they are running on custom hardware. Don't you remember ATI's contribution to the system?

      "And I called you a fanboy because you were offering false praise of Nintendo, specifically your contention that the N64 was the first console designed with 3D in mind. "

      Okay, which console was it? It wasn't the PS1. I like how you attack the guy by describing his point as 'false praise', but won't go on to explain why he's wrong. The N64 holds a lot of accomplishments under it's hood in the realm of 3D. It was made specifically to drive advanced 3D graphics and it blew away the PS1. It was, afterall, a generation newer.

      I can see why you posted anonymously.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    11. Re:They should just do Software by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "You cleverly copy-and-pasted that out of the linked above article. As anyone knows, comparing polygon counts is basically useless when it comes to video game systems. The only real way to compare them is to look at cross-platform games. "

      Yep, you're right, to a point. If a game is made for one console and ported to another, though, you'll sometimes find that one version tends to suffer.

      That's besides the point, though. I've read a few interviews with developers, and the concensus is that the XBOX whomps the GameCube's ass at some things, and the GC whomps the XBOX's ass at some things. Unfortunately, that's all down on a technical level. Put the two systems side by side, and it's real difficult to tell which one is which. This is the first time I've seen two systems so close.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    12. Re:They should just do Software by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "The PS1 was not designed with 3D in mind? Oh, you think that Sony just thought that they'd release a bunch of 2D games for their baby BUT then just stumbled upon Jumping Flash, Battle Arena Toshinden, and Kileak?"

      They threw in a processor that could do the vector processing. That's a far cry from "we have hardware to do vector processing, lighting, texturing/filtering, and load management". I don't think I need to get into it's 64-bit inner-workings.

      "The fact is that the PS1 came out first and was built with 3D gaming in mind, as evidence see the linked articles later in the thread: the GPU was included for mainly 3D gaming."

      Having a vector processor is not the same as designing a system with 3D in mind. That's like saying a Palm Pilot was built with playing video in mind because it has a color screen. There's a lot more to it than just one little aspect of it.

      " Sony, NOT NINTENDO, pushed 3D gaming FIRST. "

      If you're going to measure a game system that way, then the Saturn was actually the first system with 3D in mind. It has VPU also.

      "I can guess why you take Slashdot so seriously - and it involves lonely Saturday nights. "

      If you were right, that'd put a rather pathetic image in my mind about what you must be like. "I'm going to spread misinformation anonymously, I get my kicks from that!"

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    13. Re:They should just do Software by ronfar · · Score: 1
      Yes, Nintendo should follow Sega. Let's look at the recent history of Sega:

      1. Sega drops out of the hardware business to focus on software. Makes a lot of noise about being the biggest third party developer and unseating the Electronic Arts. (Or, as I like to call them, the evil Electronic Arts.)

      2. Sega fails abjectly, and gets into talks to merge with some other company. Of course, merging is not an easy thing to do. So far it doesn't look good.

      Possible Future: Sega ends up in a take over by Electronic Arts or Microsoft, has its development teams broken up, and its few high name recognition brands slapped onto inferior products. Ultimately it goes the way of Origin Systems. This much seems certain, no chance of Shenmue III. I'm just going to pretend that Lan Di ultimately triumphed. I find it oddly comforting...

      There is still some hope that this will not happen. But if I were Nintendo, I wouldn't follow this path. I'd probably consider dropping TV consoles and going purely into handhelds (I hope not... but it could happen), but why become a software development company with Sega's example before you?

      --
      All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
    14. Re:They should just do Software by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Nintendo claims the GameCube can do 12 million polygons a second ... blah blah implication that PS2 can do more blah blah

      The difference that you're not taking into account:

      Nintendo's specs are published for developers, not as a marketing gimmick. They tell developers what they can expect from the system in a game.

      Microsoft and Sony's XBox and PS2 specs are all theoretical numbers, and are what you'd get if every piece of hardware were running at 100% efficiency in a tech demo. They're marketing numbers published so that morons like yourself will go repeating them to all of your friends without understanding what you're comparing. Not to mention your complete misunderstanding of how the A-RAM and texture cache work, along with the asinine assertation that somehow the PS2's technology will get better over time, eventually making it look better than the Gamecube.

      Short explanation: MS and Sony lie about their specs, Nintendo doesn't. Simple as that.

      Bottom line: MS has the most powerful system, but only marginally. The 'Cube is a close 2nd. The PS2 probably has the most powerful CPU, but that's all it has. If you honestly believe anything differently, you're a marketing tool.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    15. Re:They should just do Software by 13Echo · · Score: 1

      Honestly, the majority of the PSX's 3D was done in software. It really wasn't designed with 3D in mind, to tell you the truth. It just came at the right time. 3D was the next big craze, and the PSX had well designed tools and devkits that made 3D graphics quite capable at the time. The key was the extra video RAM that was never seen in dedicated game consoles before. As far the Saturn, SEGA incorperated some last minute changes that helped its "3D" processing, but the problem was in the non-standard method by which it rendered these models, and the fact that it was plagued with its massively parrallel processing architecture.

      As for the first "real" 3D console. Many folks would say it was the N64, but I'm of the opinion that the Dreamcast was the first "real" 3D console. It was the first to integrate a dedicated processor that handled the important things... Lighting, filtering, antialiasing, texture mapping, etc., to such a perfect degree. In fact, very little has been changed in home 3D hardware since then. It's mostly just gotten faster and obtained a few new insttruction sets. The SH4/PowerVR combo is still a fantastic design... One of the best that's ever been put into a console.

    16. Re:They should just do Software by willr7 · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't follow this path. I'd probably consider dropping TV consoles and going purely into handhelds

      Interesting point...hypothetically speaking, imagine if (this would suck, but...) for the next generation systems Nintendo doesnt come out w/ a console, only a handheld like you said. Then for the generation after that they come out w/ a console about 6 months before microsoft and sony do (to beat them to market).

      People would go nuts w/ the hype!! After not having your must have generation fix of Zelda, Metroid, Mario, etc... everyone would buy it!!

      Of course it could totally backfire and nobody would buy it, but i damn sure would. Hell i'm going to buy the next one to so what the f*ck am i talking about.

      I'm w/ nintendo until their grave.

  3. A Few Thoughts by Acidic_Diarrhea · · Score: 2, Flamebait
    " Nintendo last month indicated it sold about 2.72 million GameCube consoles worldwide in the second half, down from 3.29 million in the same period a year earlier."
    Isn't that to be expected? I mean, for each generation of consoles don't all the people who are going to buy a console, buy one and then focus on buying games? Sure, you can get some new converts but that number is going to be much smaller than the number of people buying when the system is new. I remember reading an interview with someone at Sony who said they had a particular number for the year that they wanted to hit. I wonder if that number was higher or lower than the year before that.

    "A game company's business strategy is either to limit the machine's functions to playing games or to target a wider range of consumers with additional functions,'' said Yorinobu Hara, who helps manage the equivalent of $970 million at Resona Asset Management Co and declined to say whether he owns Nintendo shares."
    And here I think Nintendo went wrong. The more functionality you can build into the system, the better. Now I know that Sony's DVD support hasn't been the greatest from that previous article (I've never had a problem with my PS2) BUT it's a feature that people can point to as yet another reason to buy the machine. If Sony had included mp3 playback in their PS2s, I would have bought mine much sooner because something that plays mp3s, dvds, and video games sounds very appealing - even if I know that in all likelihood, I wouldn't listen to mp3s using it. And as far as the Gameboy Advance interfacing with the Gamecube: so far Nintendo hasn't sold me on it so I can understand why investors haven't been exactly captivated. The Pacman thing was a little cool BUT I don't know if it's a reason for me to go drop my money on the table for both a Gamecube and a Gameboy Advance. Since that's a game that requires at least two players to even bother with plugging the Gameboy in, how much use would I get out of it? And really, couldn't the same type of game be done using an online game? Multiple Gamecubes linked together is a great idea because I can find other people with Gamecubes but having to buy a Gamecube and a Gameboy Advance to play a game? Seems like a jump...
    --
    I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
    1. Re:A Few Thoughts by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "The more functionality you can build into the system, the better. Now I know that Sony's DVD support hasn't been the greatest from that previous article (I've never had a problem with my PS2) BUT it's a feature that people can point to as yet another reason to buy the machine."

      History would prove you wrong. The 3DO and CD-I come to mind...

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:A Few Thoughts by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "But the CD-I was a poor gaming device. The first order of business when creating a console is to make sure it functions as a gaming device."

      Very true. The problem, though, is what is the cost of adding those features? Sony developed a DVD player into their console, and the result was an unsatisfactory experience for a lot of people.

      "My main point was that an extra feature or two can push the system into more homes and Nintendo's view that people just want their consoles to be consoles is, I believe, wrong."

      I don't think you've accumulated all the variables here. The GameCube was $100 cheaper than the PS2. The difference in cost meant a DVD Player. I'll admit that before I had a DVD player, the PS2 was mildly interesting to me, until I used it. (I rented a PS2 shortly after it came out.) The interface was horrible! (didn't have the remote, just the controller) So I went out and spent $100 on a DVD player that works really well, and I got a GameCube.

      Will everybody see it that way? Definitely not, afterall we're all human. I can totally understand you wanting more stuff in your system. I can understand that, one of the deciding factors in buying my last two laptops was DVD playing capability. Can't say I've used it a lot, but I can understand it. I think there is a significant group of people who feel the same way. The question is "what's the majority?". Well, let me ask you this, if the GameCube came out for $300 with DVD playing capabilities, would you have bought it instead of a PS2? I'd be surprised if you would. It strikes me you'd buy the GC either way if you really really wanted it.

      Okie, I've rambled a bit. Sorry about that, I'm scatter brained today. (hope I'm not sounding rude or anything) I will concede on this point, though: If somebody wants a PS2 but is leary about spending the money on it, a feature like DVD playing could tip them over. "Aww heck, I need one anyway."

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    3. Re:A Few Thoughts by n_jed · · Score: 1
      Multiple Gamecubes linked together is a great idea because I can find other people with Gamecubes but having to buy a Gamecube and a Gameboy Advance to play a game? Seems like a jump...

      I guess unless you already own a GBA because you use it 5 days a week to pass the time it takes to get into work!

    4. Re:A Few Thoughts by KurdtX · · Score: 1

      Hey, that's why I chose the PS2 for my gaming system. With the typical anti-MS slant, I ain't buying the beast, so it came down to the PS2 and the Gamecube. Since I needed a DVD player (no complaints) anyway and hate top-loading systems... that made it pretty clear.

      Oh yeah, and Gran Turismo 3....

      --

      Kurdt
      I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
  4. Nintendo doesn't need to... by gmrc.2 · · Score: 1

    be a part of the forever-ascending-bottom-line-game. They are an established gaming company that always has a gaming ace or two up it's sleeves. Why do some people feel the need to say; "If you don't rise, you sink."? I can make lots of people happy, turn a tidy profit, grow technically and emotionally and see countless places and people most people won't ... and my boat won't rise out of the water, let alone sink ;)

    1. Re:Nintendo doesn't need to... by GeorgeH · · Score: 1

      Because speed is relative. You may think you're sitting still, but then you remember that your chair is rotating around the earth, which rotates around the sun, etc. Similarly, business is always rising (did you ever notice how movies keep breaking opening weekend sales records? It's not because movies keep getting better...). If you stay still, while the rest of buisnesses are rising, you're falling relative to them.

      In a publicly traded company like Nintendo, perception is huge. If they aren't growing as fast as their investors want them to, the investors will sell and they will lose money. Emotional growth is great, but it doesn't pay the stock dividends.

      --
      Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
  5. Ahem.... by jebell · · Score: 1
    ... and sell less Gamecubes...

    That should read, "fewer Gamecubes."

    /Grammar nazi
    --
    This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    1. Re:Ahem.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Usage Note: The traditional rule holds that fewer should be used for things that can be counted (fewer than four players), while less should be used with mass terms for things of measurable extent (less paper; less than a gallon of paint).

      I'd go with less. Gamecubes are like paper. I wouldn't ever count them all.

  6. Fuck you Gamecube!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    I just bought a Gamecube to impress my friends. I must admit that I even used it to play Games!!!

    But now nobody will like me anymore because the company that produces them doesn't well with the money. That has an impact on the grade how playable/enjoyable my Gamecube games are. I need to get a life again and switch to the XBox ASAP!!! I just beg to god that this console will bring back my friends and admirers again.. Please, oh Lord Jesus Christ help me to get over this and let me have the money to buy another/better/more respectable video game console system.

    1. Re:Fuck you Gamecube!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whoever modded the parent down should check his brain and remember the difference between "Funny, Insightful and Troll"

      Sheesh.. these non-main posts suck.. to much people who think they can play their little "i-am-the-host-of-this-post" games here..

  7. Even with Double Dash? by EarwigTC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    After hearing of the eight-player capabilities of Mario Kart, I and several friends have all pledged to become 2-cube households the day it comes out. They may have been thinking about console sales a little after all...

    --
    Promote civility: mod down any post starting with 'ummm'.
    1. Re:Even with Double Dash? by sporty · · Score: 1

      Nonono.. that's what the handles are for. Just carry the bloody thing to your friend's house :)

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

  8. Just a *likely* fall in profit by johannesg · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The (gaming) press is at it again, talking a good company into the ground before anything has really happened. This has happened so many times now: "company X might be going down!" followed by noone buying a machine from company X since it might not be a sound investment - thereby causing the bogus predication to become true.

    Nintendo is doing fine. They are making a nice profit. They are writing great software. They own lots of profitable franchises that noone else has. They may have slightly less sales than Microsoft, but that does not mean they have been wiped off the face of the earth.

    1. Re:Just a *likely* fall in profit by Synistyr · · Score: 1

      That sounds more like a head in the sand attitude. "We're doing fine. No worries. We are making money".

      Being complacent gets you nowhere in a cutthroat business where things are measured in pure numbers. (Microsoft lost a TON of money on their gaming division, but are they or anyone else worried? No.)

      The systems that live the longest aren't necessarily the 'best'. Nintendo needs some killer games to get the GC off of store shelves. You can play 'kiddie' games on any console. (bad move on Nintendo's part when they aimed the GC at a younger audience initially - most consoles are bought by young adults or teens or teens with their parents money). Give people a reason to get a GC over an PS2 or Xbox!

    2. Re:Just a *likely* fall in profit by junkgrep · · Score: 1

      I don't even understand the headlines. How can they be making less profit simply by selling fewer Gamecubes? I thought the whole point of consoles was that you LOSE money for each console sold, but gain it back in game liscences and you rown in-house games?

    3. Re:Just a *likely* fall in profit by pommaq · · Score: 1

      Nah. Only Microsoft do that, because they have huge overflowing chests of gold in their basement and can afford it.

      The Gord has a thing or two to say about this.

  9. I hope Nintendo turns things around by agentmouthwash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's sad to see Nintendo going the same path as Sega. Right now Nintendo has the same niche that Sega once had with the Dreamcast; fun addictive light-hearted games. Nintendo greats like Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Zelda- and sega greats like Crazy Taxi and Space Channel 5 and Samba De Amigo. I really hope that genre doesn't go away in a gaming world ruled by Sony and Microsoft. The way things are going... I think it will.

    1. Re:I hope Nintendo turns things around by matlokheed · · Score: 1

      In a gaming world ruled by Sony and Microsoft?

      Since when did "system which has yet to be profitable" qualify as ruling. Nintendo isn't Sega. The difference is that Nintendo has yet to have an unprofitable system (Virtual Boy excluded). No, they aren't likely to become #1 again soon (ever?), but they'll be in the hardware business a long time from now.

      --

      "If the good lord had intended us to walk, he wouldn't have invented roller skates." -Willy Wonka

  10. Multifunctional machines by sporty · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are a LOT of devices that are jack of all trades, master of none.

    Look at the iPod. It's not a great PDA. It never will be. Apple won't persue it very hard.

    Look at those annoying scanner-fax-printer things. Great if you dont' care much about poor performance of one or even two of the functions. It's the same reason why the ones that really do everything right tend to be very expensive.

    Counter-point, the tivo-directv combo box. They were meant for each other. It's rare when devices should combine. Radio's and music players are the same way. Look at receivers and walkmen. Surprised I don't see more cd players /w radios.

    BTW, the GBA functionality is almost always optional. Look at wind waker. It's simply a bonus to have the linkup. Same /w sonic.

    --

    -
    ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

  11. *groan* by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Stupid people say this every fucking year. Nintendo always comes through with games that please their fans, and they always make huge profits.

    Nothing to see here...

    --
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
  12. An insiders perspective... sort of. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hi there guys, this is the first time that I have *ever* replied to a post on slashdot, but I figure that I should give you guys the inside view of the gamecube situtation.

    First off, I am the store manager for an extremely high volume video-game specialty store, and myself and all of my staff own all three systems. I love the gamecube, feel really bad about what is happening to it.

    In the last three months my store has sold eight gamecubes! Just eight! And that was *after* the free game offer started! In that same period of time we have sold fifty-four PS2's and fourty-two xboxes. On a conference call last week, I we disscussed or experiences with the GC lastely, and most stores echoed my dissapointment.

    And that's not the worst of it either. The worst part is the software. For example, when "Splinter Cell" came out for gamecube and PS2 we have sold 94 copies for PS2 and 2 for gamecube. So far on "Enter the Matrix" we have sold 160 for xbox, 140 for PS2, 24 for GC and 10 for PC. (BTW this is the 1st time we see xbox beating PS2 company-wide on a new release.)

    On average, we sell about 4 gamecube games a day compared to 25 xbox games and 30 ps2 games. The *only* game for gamecube that has sold well this year in Zelda. Publishers that make GC exclusive games need to have balls of steel, because they know these numbers. That's why there are so few GC exclusive 3rd party games.

    On the flipside, GBA and GBA SP are doing amazingly well. We sell many, many, many more GBA games than GC games. Nintendo makes a killing on GBA, so the company is not going anywhere.

    I don't know why this is happening, but I fear that it has a lot to do with marketing. The gamecube is not percieved as "cool." It's best exclusive games, metroid and zelda, are often perceived as kiddie games, even though they are not! When customers think PS2, they think Vice City; when they think Xbox, they think Halo. But when the they think GC, what do they think of?

    ***Warning gross generalizations coming!***

    Here's what my customer's think and much of this is not true, but this is what they tell us before we can correct them.

    PS2: The cool system, what my buddy has, the "best" system, the one with the "best" controller, and the most games. I want a ps2 because I played vice city at a friend's house.

    Xbox: Big, black, and powerful. The most "powerful" system. Less games than PS2, but gaining. I want an xbox because I played halo at my friend's house.

    GC: Small and purple, nobody has it. Less powerful that ps2 and xbox, because it's smaller and costs less. Zelda is a kids game, but GC is kinda cool because I once was at some guy's house and he was playing resident evil on it.

    This is what they say to us, I don't know who is to blame, but the future does not look good for nintendo.

    1. Re:An insiders perspective... sort of. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice try. Maybe you should write Penthouse letters. "I want an xbox because I played halo at my friend's house." Why would the store manager of an electronics store need to go to a friends house to play an Xbox? "Zelda is a kids game, but GC is kinda cool because I once was at some guy's house and he was playing resident evil on it." Same deal. Although Zelda is a great game...

    2. Re:An insiders perspective... sort of. by (trb001) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The gamecube is not percieved as "cool." It's best exclusive games, metroid and zelda, are often perceived as kiddie games, even though they are not! When customers think PS2, they think Vice City; when they think Xbox, they think Halo. But when the they think GC, what do they think of?

      Extremely, extremely good point. I say this not only because I agree with you, but also because I think this way. In answer to your last question, when I think of GC (or Nintendo in general), I think of video games, which are completely different from PC games. The XBox and PS2, IMHO, cater to people who haven't experienced games on a PC. Nintendo caters to those who want a system away from their computer, in front of a tv. I think the nerd factor comes into it a little...games on a PC are nerdy, games on a platform system are cool. Nintendo was the jumping off spot for most of us who love PC games now, but when I play a platform system, I want side scrolling, fun, easily controlled action.

      Platforms are great for games that require loads of buttons (Tekken required 4 up top, 4 on the right and the control pad). PCs are great for games that require sight control (FPS, for instance). For people who don't like PCs, they turn to the FPS on platforms. XBox and PS2 outperform Nintendo here. I don't think Nintendo should try to capture that genre, but whatever sells...

      --trb

    3. Re:An insiders perspective... sort of. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Next time, read the whole comment. He was saying what his customers think.

    4. Re:An insiders perspective... sort of. by h0mer · · Score: 1

      Tekken requires 4 buttons and some sort of control pad or joystick. The 4 shoulder buttons were just combinations of the 4 face buttons. Tekken in the arcade? 4 buttons.

      Just so someone doesn't flame me for this, Tekken Tag requires 5 buttons I guess. But whatever

      --


      I'm on top of my game like I'm standin' on Xbox.
    5. Re:An insiders perspective... sort of. by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      "PS2: (...) the one with the "best" controller,"

      For a hardware manufacturer that has done nothing but blatently copy Nintendo controllers, that's not half bad. :)

      Select button, action butons in a square configuration, shoulder buttons, analog thumbstick, rumble feature... Everything that Nintendo did first and Sony said "me too!" afterwards. About the only thing Nintendo didn't do first was proportional buttons, but even then that's someting Sega did first.

      It seems the only good idea that Sony didn't rip off was putting four controller ports on the console. Of course, why give it away for free when you can MSRP it for only $34.99? And another ~$30 if you want to play PSX games as well...

      These are the reasons I'd like Nintendo to stick around in the hardware business. Of the three big consoles out today, the GameCube is the only one that has done anything unique and new, if not innovative.

  13. Investors don't understand their investment by Zed2K · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Investors also seems worried about increased competition for the Gameboy Advance, in the form of Sony's PSP handheld."

    Then the investors are stupid and really don't know anything about the market they are investing in. The sony thing won't be out till late 2004, you can place pretty good bets on it not showing till 2005. 2 years is an awfully long time and you can place another bet that nintendo will have an updated gameboy out by that time to compete. Why would they announce it now and give Sony a heads up into what they are working on?

    1. Re:Investors don't understand their investment by amuro98 · · Score: 1

      Of *course* investors don't know about what they're investing in.

      This is why Cisco can make an announcement that causes their stock to go up, and then you'll see Intel's stock go up because investors think Cisco...Intel...it's all the same stuff.

      Yeah, I agree with you, it'll be at least a year before we'll start seeing what this thing from Sony is actually going to look like, what it's capabilities will be, and most importantly, what the games look like.

  14. Rumors of the Death of Nintendo by Snowspinner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seem to me greatly exaggerated. Is the GC a top-selling system? No. Is it even going to wind up second place when all is said and done? Very possibly not.

    Nintendo, however, owns a market share very tightly. There are players who basically only enjoy Nintendo games. When pushed, we have some difficulty explaining why, except for some intangible aspect to the games. They're just... more fun. They seem to have been designed, always, to be fun, entertaining, easy to pick up, etc. And I don't get that feeling from most PS2 games. I buy them, and I'm almost always disappointed. They feel like they're a part of a different hobby than the one I grew up with.

    I am not alone in this, either. Out of the dozen or so friends I have who own a console, about 5 own a Gamecube. I know this is an unusually high number, but, you know, I tend to associate with people who have similar taste and all. The point is, though, that the six of us are dedicated GC players. We own GC's because the GC is the only console that has the games we want.

    My point, long-winded as it may be, is that I think the GC can and will survive on this niche. Sure, it'll go down to 10% of the market. Sure, it'll lose some of its third party support. But, as time goes on, a lot of developers will also start moving away from the Nintendo style of game entirely. And Nintendo will be the only company catering at all to people like me.

    I figure it'll be like Apple. Never gonna be at the top of the game. Always gonna be around, and always gonna have a set of loyalists who would never seriously consider buying the competition.

    --
    Philip Sandifer's academic website
    1. Re:Rumors of the Death of Nintendo by Rudy+Rodarte · · Score: 1

      Nintendo will always have people like me. My first system was the Atari 5200, but the controllers crapped out on me with the quickness.
      Then, I moved to the world of Nintendo. There were so many games, and they were (for the most part) all fun. The best analogy I can think of at the moment is Star Wars. We have this story and we know how it turns out(Anakin == Darth Vader, Link kicks gannons ass, etc). But the story itself keeps us coming back to see the newest thing(The master sword lost its Mojo??). Plus, chapters in the story are separated by large gaps of time, so we wonder what exaclty will happen next.

      --
      What, me Tweet?
  15. 3rd man-out by CashCarSTAR · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The poor performance of the Game Cube is kinda weird, in my opinion. Just to little note, my only current-gen game system is a GameCube, so I might be biased...but not much.

    I think that Nintendo is at the bottom of the mindshare curve, and that is pretty much all that is going on. I agree with one of the above posters that states that Nintendo is going to be the Apple of video gaming. It's going to have a dedicated following that will increase slowly year after year.

    For me, the X-Box is just a complete snore, (Halo is still the only half-decent exclusive, and that is only because of a hack..CTF over the Internet is fun.). The PS2 is a whole lot better, to be honest, having partial exclusives like GTA:VC and the Dynasty Warriors series.

    However..Nintendo got the goods. Really. Yes, there are less games out for it. Does it really matter when....well..quite frankly it has some unbelievable games. Metriod and Zelda, go without saying, are amazing...and I'm not even a Zelda fan. Mario Sunshine was great, however limited by the game flow (what WAS there was great). Animal Crossing is amazingly adictive, (again, I'm not usually a fan of that style), then you add the "2nd-tier" stuff, stuff that is still amazing, Eternal Darkness, Star Fox Adventures, Rogue Leader. The controller is excellent, and it has enough multi-platform games to make me happy. (Tony Hawk, Burnout, Ikaragua, Skies of Arcadia, Timesplitters 2)

    The focus on GBA connectivity is a gamble, and in fact, it's an artistic decision rather than a business one in my mind. The previews of the upcoming GBA focused games sound amazing (FF:CC,Four Swords, Pac-Man)

    In any case, I for one am very happy with my small little box. Nintendo seems to be barking up the wrong tree right now, comercially speaking, but artistically, they are better right now than any other VG company at any time in history.

    1. Re:3rd man-out by metacosm · · Score: 1

      Just wanted to add a few great games to that list :)

      Picmon, Monkey Balls ... but overall, the above post sums up why I am a happy Cuber!

    2. Re:3rd man-out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also in addition the ability to play GBA games on your GC soon should be a plus, I know im looking forward to playing alot of the great GBA titles on a bigger screen.

  16. Blah, blah, blah by gergi · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's a shame that they're only expected to make 1 gazillion dollars this year instead of 1.1 gazillion. I don't think Nintendo is too worried.

    I'm going to back to playing my Gamecube and laugh at those that haven't been enlightened and still waste your time on the other two consoles.
    Nintendo won my loyalty w/ great games, not great specs (though it has those too).

    --
    Nosce te Ipsum
    1. Re:Blah, blah, blah by Yorrike · · Score: 1
      Here, here! With 4.5 billion in the bank, a 98-100% share of the handheld mrket, Nintendo is going well.

      I've found Nintendo gamers are smart gamers. Of all the people I know who play games, the more enlighted have a 'cube. Of all the people I've introduced to console gaming, most have been addicted to a GameCube game over one on another system (save GTA).

      For example, my flatmate is addicted to Eternal Darkness at the moment. He's playing until 2, maybe even 3 in the morning. Even when he was addicted to GTA, he put down the controller at midnight. It's games like this that make a Nintendo Console. The other platforms have some great games, but few of them are quirky and different (look at the number of GTA rip offs).

      --

      Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?

  17. please by dh003i · · Score: 1

    GameCube offers some games that are far superior to anything offered by the X-box. Nothing, for example, on *any* gaming platform -- aside from Resident Evil series on the Playstations -- can compete with the GameCube's "Eternal Darkness".

    --
    social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
  18. I agree! The Xbox is way to overhyped and BORING! by swat_r2 · · Score: 0

    I turn it on and I have only 3 options. "Memory" apparently just allows for some kind of game save copying and stuff, "Music" is kinda cool but I already have a CD player so it's pointless! And it can't even read my TDK burned cdr's :( I'd say the most interesting thing about the Xbox so far is the "Language" selection screen. It really screws with my friend's heads when they turn on my Xbox and everything in the menu is Japanese or Italian :) Grrr, this machine is so damn boring!

  19. I think it would be great if Nintendo ditched HW by swat_r2 · · Score: 0

    Then it would be one less system to buy and clutter up the apartment, 3 less controllers, memory card, other peripherals, etc. I was upset about the DC dying an undignified death, but that all went away the second I booted up JSRF on my Xbox and realized I don't give a damn about the HW as long as I get the games.

  20. No need to worry by edwdig · · Score: 1

    Considering Nintendo's *profit* is about the same as the *income* of Microsoft's games division, I see no need for them to worry.

  21. Oh, please. by 13Echo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Nintendo is in no position to go away. We've seen what happened to SEGA because people "forgot" about what they stodd for. And those gamers that have been around the block will be damned if they're going to let Nintendo go.

    Just maybe Microsoft is selling more XBox units, but the numbers have shown that they *are not* selling the software along with it. It's pretty sad when SNES titles top the best selling XBox games on GameFAQs.com. Hmm... Nintendo has been solid on those lists for months now, especially since the Metroid Prime release. Weather it is Game Boy titles, or GCN titles, they've remained pretty consistant. Unless everyone totally buys into the PSP hype, I don't see that changing too much. Gamecubes still keep selling, and software is selling well enough. The PS2 sales are grinding to a halt. Everyone and their mom already has one. The rest are just replacements for dead systems. Tell me if you don't know somebody that hasn't had to replace their PS2? (Gamecubes have a 12 month warranty, compared to the PS2's and XBox's 90 day).

    Third party companies are afraid to make the jump, but it is begining to happen. Some of the companies that we've *never dreamed* would make games for non-Sony platforms are doing more cross-platform work. Where's Squaresoft in terms of XBox games? Granted, 3 Gamecube games from Square isn't *everything*, but it's a start. Nintendo still has the biggest and best exclusives that the *fans* want. And even companies like Konami and Capcom are finally working on some satisfactory exclusives.

    The fact is... The dedicated game companies will *never* let Nintendo go, and neither will the fans. Nintendo may be a company, and they may be in it for profit just as Sony and Microsoft are, but they are *totally* about the games. You can't say that about the other two, which are primarily electronics, media, or software companies that just want total media domination. Many of us hated to see SEGA go, but we'll be damned if the same thing happens to Nintendo.

  22. The future of the big N! by aceadean · · Score: 1

    Hey! I am a die-hard Nintendo gamer. I have owned just about every piece hardware they ever built.(Even Rob the Video Robot!) Anyway my opinion is a bit biased but I have to share it. Nintendo isn't going anywhere. They do currently operate at a niche level, but they make THE BEST games out there. You can bag on their third party support all you like, but let's not forget they have been pitching woo at some very big names and we are seeing the results. Final Fantasy, a game I thought would never return to the N, is back and with all new gameplay! Sure you can say it's not a true FF game but lets be honest the whole FF series is geting a bit long-winded. A new gameplay style makes me excited to play FF again!

    And let's not forget Solid Snake's return to the platform who spawned him. (MGS is the one game that made me swoon with envy over the PS owners) Finaly! Nintendo die-hards rejoyce!

    1. Re:The future of the big N! by AusG4 · · Score: 1

      Good points, but let's still remember that Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater is going to be a PlayStation exclusive. :)

      --
      bash-3.00$ uname -a
      SunOS panda 5.10 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-2
  23. gee... interesting how that goes against by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what others are saying. take for example this press release the gamestop stores just released saying their sales are UP systems in general and up for cubes. i wouldn't read too much into david becker and his crap. go through his history of articles, he's an xbox apologist...

  24. Nintendo by alcharn · · Score: 1

    I feel that Nintendo was the first. Although they have all of these competitors, they need more innovation. If they stay creative, Nintendo will be the base for what other systems will follow.