Linux: modularity alows solving of dependency hell. So few days of patching with knowing it will work in the end is acceptable without definition broken
In case of Windows: if Windows get broken reinstall is the only option. Yes reinstalling a system and losing information is considered broken. If option to correct problems exists I don't consider Win broken. Then again install one piece of Software and uninstall it. Software stayed on disk in 90% at least partially. That makes installer broken
Vocabulary: working... Thing is not broken, or at least option to correct exists broken... No option to correct without losing information uptime... Time passed from the last reboot, on windows some service packs need reboot so getting great uptime with patching is not possible
by the way... uptime on my server is 3 years now. On my desktop 5 months, I never reboot
Correct! With one exception. Redhat is planing it's Enterprise (AS,ES,WS) products. These ones should be the first RH approved finalized solutions.
WS - workstation should be the first product which updates (OS not patches) should come every two years
8.0 just wasn't that (mainstream desktop friendly capable), but taken to considerations options that are missing but are present in new version, it's probably the closest thing to real solution
Gentoo - not everyone is capable of Gentoo administering, I find it easy, but I don't know many friends that would be prepared to use Gentoo
KDE is far from being enough clean to that step. Gnome on the other hand is not finished enough.
KDE already runs on OSX
Under X11 emulation, that's far from being native
apple's using a huge load of kde code already
You're probably reffering to Safari. KHTML is not a huge load of code. Just take a look at Apple Cocoa and Carbon code, differences will
KDE is the best desktop enviroment in terms of architecture, customisability, flexiblity, applications , ease of use, i18n (over 80 languages!).
I'm a linux user, so I should be bashing OSX and Aqua (when it would be fair), but KDE has a long way to go. Like first, spring cleaning of Menu and KControl, lack of support for handycaped persons, as long with other incosistances Gnome on the other hand has this things but lacks of applications and being finalized on some points of usability. Maybe 2.4 or 2.8, but 2.2 has a way to go too.
So replace X11 with Quartz and you have one blazing system!
Replacing X11 with Quartz? Problems arise with hardware support. Apple uses Nvidia and Ati only so making some functions hardware accelerated is no problem, but it would become much larger problem with introducing larger ammount of different vendors. (I think XFree5 plans address this problems in the way Quartz does, hardware accelerated with soft emulation just like MesaGL-DRI-GLX are doing now)
As for the best, everybody has it's best. But to stay on topic. Apple's OS is the only reason to buy Apple machine, making it Intel based it would just bring a benchmark confrontation with other OS that run on the same hardware. Making it KDE this topic would become much more viable than CPU-only benchmark topic
If Linux has tendency to become a major player in desktop environment native software is a "must have"
It already supports Perl, Java, PHP, and C#('till somewhere). And that should be probably enough of software interoperability it needs. But emulation should not get in a way. Fact: Joe user is used to app XYZ, switches to Linux and runs XYZ under emulation. Why, when this app runs better under Win. And as much as I would like to see it happen', sorry, this is not the way. (Temporary transition maybe), but for now I'm avoiding this situations as possible
Since MacOSX is different OS than Win. But MacOSX is still proprietary. So taken that, just as expensive as Win.
They are facing threat in Linux just because Linux is free. MacOSX is not likely to get to complete platform change, it would probably work on Apple/Intel PC only (no Win support would be probable for tht line of PCs too).
But since Apple has always been reffering to CPU speed differences this change is not likely to happen'. To some new or other chip provider maybe but not to the same as theirs. Pricing would be questionable here, (no trolling, just basic life fact): "It's easier to overprice something different, than something that already exists and has a price tag already".
First, you're right. Pointing to Vietnam is a mistake. Just as if I would say they deserved WTC. There are people in question, so if it makes you more comfortable: "You're right:
It is so fashionable to hate America
Not at all, I just believe there could be a better choices without them (exclude people, just US and democracy with their interferring).
place run by a madman
Now you're gonna say that Bush is sane, god and new year comes on friday the 13th
America (and this was never meant to come across as a homily) has been remarkably un-territorial in its behaviour. When did it last attack a country to gain its territory? When did it last extract reperations from defeated countries?
Point would be right, but it ain't. They weren't territorial, they were commercial.
*Bosnia
Yeah, right tell me about it. I think I know it a bit better this one than you.
I would have happily have given Saddam six more months to dis-arm
Me too
Lets hope as few people as possible die in the current conflict
If you'd read my post you'd see that I regret that war even exists. But reason that exists lies on America
Re:And it all could have been avoided...
on
Updates on War in Iraq
·
· Score: 0, Offtopic
Now the first time I wish some mod points, I don't have them. Please somebody mod parent up in my name
Re:And it all could have been avoided...
on
Updates on War in Iraq
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
200 years after the founding of the (admittedly flawed but still admirably fair) American democracy
God, I hope you don't really believe the things You say. Democracy is not what you have, on paper and by name maybe, but reality is different
destroy the country than give up their power?
Then it's probably America the one who should lead in this.
Who in the right mind would give America power to decide for others, I know I didn't
Explanation 1. Whenever US interferred in some nation they caused more pain and sorrow than it was. 2. Whenever US calls their judgement, who the fsck gives them right, but they still do 3. Most of the last wars (10 or 20) in the world were actualy caused by US 4. Most of the wars were longer because of US
Conclusion. I hope you'll get a new Vietnam (read as ASS KICKED)
I guess I hate America and what it represents (or you can call it a lie), not Americans, there's many people from US whom I know who are just plain people, no politics, no bullshit.
p.s. Please, get a new sucker to be president, Bush is not sane, or get a better remote (democracy)
True, good admin is found in a pub drunk and careless. (He has no problems):-)
But I think he was reffering to another kind of admin. The one that only lives with certifications and knows nothing about reality. I know few of that kind too, but they're more common to Windows environment, probably just for a reason that it has more population. But linux is not dumb free either. One of my friends has no clue how to set up simple Samba server or DNS, and he's selling mostly linux solutions.
Then again I know one VMS dumb also. But if I consider that I know only two people on VMS, woooow... 50% people on VMS is dumb. (take as a joke not reality)
Main trouble with certifications is that they're much too simple. I reject them for my personal reasons. I take it as if I would show up with RHCE, MSCE, or something title I would feel dumb if the persons I would be talking to would know the true level of these ??CE. There's only two exams people should take: REALITY and EXPERIENCE
So TCO alone won't help linux/unix topple M$, its got to be more marketable than windows.
It makes me happy that you're wrong on that. You just haven't taken two points in your calculation.
There's more IT's that are pushing linux for one reason only. Since there is a financial regression in the market, there's a lot more of chances for cheaper product to succed.
When you account a solution that takes let's say $100000 in hardware and $100000 in software (and that's not really big company, about 50 people) there's a $100000 difference. Initial $200000 were acceptable but there is also one more money to account in. Price of solutions and software being brought to work So that would be about $50000 to $200000 or more. There's a big difference to say your price of making solution work is $100000 if you say that they'll save $100000 for software. It's much easier to promote that, than selling $50000 worth of work with $100000 worth of software and nothing saved.
So: there is Redmond money that lies on the street, you just have to pick it up.
Best market is IT will to make more money and that IT promotes what's better solution
If you wanna be superior then start learning to be better than others.
There's no real knowledge needed to install a disk, camera or use desktop software.
When it comes to maintaining of complex networks and servers....? That's a linux superiority you're talking about. Not the GUI.
I even tryed out Mandrake Server,... well it sucks major. If admin is not smart enough to control (and choose) firewall, mail, web and other services. There's a little to be expected of him. Some baasic predefault settings are not enough to make a (really) trusted environment.
Well, that's your superior edge you should be aiming for not some basic operations.
Is this another case of some linux people hating a distro because it's too easy to use? Then again I love that linux is getting easy. I just hate to click zillion options to make my desktop as I imagine. Well, I used to like that in the past, but gnome2 "just works" out of the base and fills all my bassic GUI needs. So I can concentrate on the job I'm doing not on GUI. But for me Redhat is the way to go.
I wish some people would keep their attitudes in line with their principles . .. Damn right! They should start to evolve instead of sitting on the knowledge they have (without progressing) and dumb down others that might become equal with no hard work.
Just read it as joke "World upside down", author probably just wanted to show that windows isn't perfect (and it REALLY AIN'T).
It's the best article in all "desktop ready" I've read in a long time.
Linux ain't and Windows ain't. Windows just has 95% of market (if it has as much). Maybe all that desktop perfection search is just search for a holly grail.
Or he could make his own by reading FAQ on compiling
Uh, no. I've seen the horror of Red Hat 8.0, and there's no fucking way I'm putting Gnome2 on any more of my machines for at least another six months, maybe a year.
Don't write reviews about desktop based movie players for at least another six months, maybe a year, CASE SOLVED
So I should solve the problem of ``crappy GUI'' by replacing it with ``no GUI at all?'' I should use the program only from the command line, or by memorizing magic keystrokes? Awesome idea.
Memorizing for exit
for pause and arrows is difficult I agree. People that are able to do that are also able to write a review
results in someone suggesting that you either A) patch your kernel or B) change distros
At least you can stay up-todate if you write a review (in other case I should write a review of Win3.1 movie players, THEY SUCK)
My best guess is that Jamie Zawinski just proved his (?)inteligence, which is strange if you look at his page
I'm probably even more mac basher than m$. But ICC support on windows is not something what it would be usable. On mac unfortunately is (and that's a fact).
Try to make use of ICC, not just read "ICC profile support", this doesn't mean that it's usefull.
The only support for ICC on Windows is supplied with external software pieces (adobe publishing collection, Best Color,...), system alone does not apply to that.
I run Gimp (photoshop, thanks but screen doesn't need CMYK or process colors, for anything better Gimp suites me better, but maybe is that just me), HTML, DHTML, perl and php and SVG (dreamweaver|flash|director no thanks, I don't wanna burn someones processor, and as you guessed in any editor that support them), (what is that? I guess I don't need it) logic Open Ofice (microsoft office - all my documentation is larger than 50 pages so I'm tired of reformating)
Wrong, nature of my bussines forces me to use MacOS and MacOSX.
So after 4.5 years of use of Apple. Where's that something new you say about? This interests me, really no trolling. My point of view is: (no troll) 1.slower than MacOS 2.more ofensive to the eyes than MacOS 3.Not as friendly 4.confusion is on much higher level than MacOS (read as, not that simple), well confusion is even higher than in Linux (at least linux is a Unix like and not some semi hidden (system level) unix like OSX made with compromises)
I care about alternative, That's the main reason I switched from Windows (was using it at home (and ashamed of the fact) and it's still 30% need in my bussines), Mac (slowly moving off), SGI and HP-UX (my first and best) to Linux:-).
"way to get comfortable with the Mac OS X environment if you are a Linux user" So I should buy expensive material and build my self a Mercedes? Well, it's way more simple if you buy a Mercedes. To stay at the fact, he was promoting administrators desktop not users desktop, so... why all that work when there is a better solution? Isn't that what Apple promotes or is just me? On the other hand this "comfortable" is not correct, this would be running from the fact and evading running native tools and software. You don't mean to say they will run on OSX forever, at last, Apple is a commercial company
But damn, you should listen sometimes to what you say, what you said at the end is smart and you can say that to almost every begginer or promoting almost anything. So try alternative, I did
But, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to buy a PC and install Linux.
Answers on your thinking what to say next 1. No, I don't need any commercial applications, at least mac doesn't cover that department of software 2. No, I my case is much nicer than Apple case, I'm very selective one 3. Yes, I tryed OSX, even Jaguar, toooo sloooow
Slashdot Mirror
Easy. Redhat update
Wrong point.
Linux: modularity alows solving of dependency hell. So few days of patching with knowing it will work in the end is acceptable without definition broken
In case of Windows: if Windows get broken reinstall is the only option. Yes reinstalling a system and losing information is considered broken. If option to correct problems exists I don't consider Win broken. Then again install one piece of Software and uninstall it. Software stayed on disk in 90% at least partially. That makes installer broken
Vocabulary:
working... Thing is not broken, or at least option to correct exists
broken... No option to correct without losing information
uptime... Time passed from the last reboot, on windows some service packs need reboot so getting great uptime with patching is not possible
by the way... uptime on my server is 3 years now. On my desktop 5 months, I never reboot
Correct! With one exception. Redhat is planing it's Enterprise (AS,ES,WS) products. These ones should be the first RH approved finalized solutions.
WS - workstation should be the first product which updates (OS not patches) should come every two years
8.0 just wasn't that (mainstream desktop friendly capable), but taken to considerations options that are missing but are present in new version, it's probably the closest thing to real solution
Gentoo - not everyone is capable of Gentoo administering, I find it easy, but I don't know many friends that would be prepared to use Gentoo
KDE is far from being enough clean to that step. Gnome on the other hand is not finished enough.
KDE already runs on OSX
Under X11 emulation, that's far from being native
apple's using a huge load of kde code already
You're probably reffering to Safari. KHTML is not a huge load of code. Just take a look at Apple Cocoa and Carbon code, differences will
KDE is the best desktop enviroment in terms of architecture, customisability, flexiblity, applications , ease of use, i18n (over 80 languages!).
I'm a linux user, so I should be bashing OSX and Aqua (when it would be fair), but KDE has a long way to go.
Like first, spring cleaning of Menu and KControl, lack of support for handycaped persons, as long with other incosistances
Gnome on the other hand has this things but lacks of applications and being finalized on some points of usability. Maybe 2.4 or 2.8, but 2.2 has a way to go too.
So replace X11 with Quartz and you have one blazing system!
Replacing X11 with Quartz? Problems arise with hardware support. Apple uses Nvidia and Ati only so making some functions hardware accelerated is no problem, but it would become much larger problem with introducing larger ammount of different vendors. (I think XFree5 plans address this problems in the way Quartz does, hardware accelerated with soft emulation just like MesaGL-DRI-GLX are doing now)
As for the best, everybody has it's best. But to stay on topic. Apple's OS is the only reason to buy Apple machine, making it Intel based it would just bring a benchmark confrontation with other OS that run on the same hardware. Making it KDE this topic would become much more viable than CPU-only benchmark topic
Hopefully.... NEVER.
If Linux has tendency to become a major player in desktop environment native software is a "must have"
It already supports Perl, Java, PHP, and C#('till somewhere). And that should be probably enough of software interoperability it needs. But emulation should not get in a way.
Fact:
Joe user is used to app XYZ, switches to Linux and runs XYZ under emulation. Why, when this app runs better under Win. And as much as I would like to see it happen', sorry, this is not the way. (Temporary transition maybe), but for now I'm avoiding this situations as possible
Just wait that Dvorak replaces Steve Jobs, after that all is open
No.
Since MacOSX is different OS than Win. But MacOSX is still proprietary. So taken that, just as expensive as Win.
They are facing threat in Linux just because Linux is free. MacOSX is not likely to get to complete platform change, it would probably work on Apple/Intel PC only (no Win support would be probable for tht line of PCs too).
But since Apple has always been reffering to CPU speed differences this change is not likely to happen'. To some new or other chip provider maybe but not to the same as theirs. Pricing would be questionable here, (no trolling, just basic life fact): "It's easier to overprice something different, than something that already exists and has a price tag already".
First, you're right. Pointing to Vietnam is a mistake. Just as if I would say they deserved WTC. There are people in question, so if it makes you more comfortable: "You're right:
It is so fashionable to hate America
Not at all, I just believe there could be a better choices without them (exclude people, just US and democracy with their interferring).
place run by a madman
Now you're gonna say that Bush is sane, god and new year comes on friday the 13th
America (and this was never meant to come across as a homily) has been remarkably un-territorial in its behaviour. When did it last attack a country to gain its territory? When did it last extract reperations from defeated countries?
Point would be right, but it ain't. They weren't territorial, they were commercial.
*Bosnia
Yeah, right tell me about it. I think I know it a bit better this one than you.
I would have happily have given Saddam six more months to dis-arm
Me too
Lets hope as few people as possible die in the current conflict
If you'd read my post you'd see that I regret that war even exists. But reason that exists lies on America
Now the first time I wish some mod points, I don't have them. Please somebody mod parent up in my name
Amen, brother.
200 years after the founding of the (admittedly flawed but still admirably fair) American democracy
God, I hope you don't really believe the things You say. Democracy is not what you have, on paper and by name maybe, but reality is different
destroy the country than give up their power?
Then it's probably America the one who should lead in this.
Who in the right mind would give America power to decide for others, I know I didn't
Explanation
1. Whenever US interferred in some nation they caused more pain and sorrow than it was.
2. Whenever US calls their judgement, who the fsck gives them right, but they still do
3. Most of the last wars (10 or 20) in the world were actualy caused by US
4. Most of the wars were longer because of US
Conclusion. I hope you'll get a new Vietnam (read as ASS KICKED)
I guess I hate America and what it represents (or you can call it a lie), not Americans, there's many people from US whom I know who are just plain people, no politics, no bullshit.
p.s. Please, get a new sucker to be president, Bush is not sane, or get a better remote (democracy)
True, good admin is found in a pub drunk and careless. (He has no problems) :-)
But I think he was reffering to another kind of admin. The one that only lives with certifications and knows nothing about reality. I know few of that kind too, but they're more common to Windows environment, probably just for a reason that it has more population. But linux is not dumb free either. One of my friends has no clue how to set up simple Samba server or DNS, and he's selling mostly linux solutions.
Then again I know one VMS dumb also. But if I consider that I know only two people on VMS, woooow... 50% people on VMS is dumb. (take as a joke not reality)
Main trouble with certifications is that they're much too simple. I reject them for my personal reasons. I take it as if I would show up with RHCE, MSCE, or something title I would feel dumb if the persons I would be talking to would know the true level of these ??CE. There's only two exams people should take: REALITY and EXPERIENCE
So TCO alone won't help linux/unix topple M$, its got to be more marketable than windows.
It makes me happy that you're wrong on that. You just haven't taken two points in your calculation.
There's more IT's that are pushing linux for one reason only. Since there is a financial regression in the market, there's a lot more of chances for cheaper product to succed.
When you account a solution that takes let's say $100000 in hardware and $100000 in software (and that's not really big company, about 50 people) there's a $100000 difference. Initial $200000 were acceptable but there is also one more money to account in.
Price of solutions and software being brought to work
So that would be about $50000 to $200000 or more. There's a big difference to say your price of making solution work is $100000 if you say that they'll save $100000 for software. It's much easier to promote that, than selling $50000 worth of work with $100000 worth of software and nothing saved.
So: there is Redmond money that lies on the street, you just have to pick it up.
Best market is IT will to make more money and that IT promotes what's better solution
That's a sorry excuse of you.
.
If you wanna be superior then start learning to be better than others.
There's no real knowledge needed to install a disk, camera or use desktop software.
When it comes to maintaining of complex networks and servers....? That's a linux superiority you're talking about. Not the GUI.
I even tryed out Mandrake Server,... well it sucks major. If admin is not smart enough to control (and choose) firewall, mail, web and other services. There's a little to be expected of him. Some baasic predefault settings are not enough to make a (really) trusted environment.
Well, that's your superior edge you should be aiming for not some basic operations.
Is this another case of some linux people hating a distro because it's too easy to use?
Then again I love that linux is getting easy. I just hate to click zillion options to make my desktop as I imagine. Well, I used to like that in the past, but gnome2 "just works" out of the base and fills all my bassic GUI needs. So I can concentrate on the job I'm doing not on GUI. But for me Redhat is the way to go.
I wish some people would keep their attitudes in line with their principles . .
Damn right! They should start to evolve instead of sitting on the knowledge they have (without progressing) and dumb down others that might become equal with no hard work.
If that's all you found....? Then Gnome sure is great.
Just read it as joke "World upside down", author probably just wanted to show that windows isn't perfect (and it REALLY AIN'T).
It's the best article in all "desktop ready" I've read in a long time.
Linux ain't and Windows ain't. Windows just has 95% of market (if it has as much). Maybe all that desktop perfection search is just search for a holly grail.
I vote for JWZ
Or he could make his own by reading FAQ on compiling
Uh, no. I've seen the horror of Red Hat 8.0, and there's no fucking way I'm putting Gnome2 on any more of my machines for at least another six months, maybe a year.
Don't write reviews about desktop based movie players for at least another six months, maybe a year, CASE SOLVED
So I should solve the problem of ``crappy GUI'' by replacing it with ``no GUI at all?'' I should use the program only from the command line, or by memorizing magic keystrokes? Awesome idea.
Memorizing for exit
for pause and arrows is difficult I agree. People that are able to do that are also able to write a review
results in someone suggesting that you either A) patch your kernel or B) change distros
At least you can stay up-todate if you write a review (in other case I should write a review of Win3.1 movie players, THEY SUCK)
My best guess is that Jamie Zawinski just proved his (?)inteligence, which is strange if you look at his page
But for sure it's one of the loudest machines on the matket (mac dual that is).
Not nice feature of being without real processors is overclocking. That needs bigger coolers. And dual,... he has loud one
Paintshop pro.
Photoshop.
But while I'm using linux only. my own imagemagick scripts on fam do job way better.
I'm probably even more mac basher than m$. But ICC support on windows is not something what it would be usable. On mac unfortunately is (and that's a fact).
Try to make use of ICC, not just read "ICC profile support", this doesn't mean that it's usefull.
The only support for ICC on Windows is supplied with external software pieces (adobe publishing collection, Best Color,...), system alone does not apply to that.
I run
Gimp (photoshop, thanks but screen doesn't need CMYK or process colors, for anything better Gimp suites me better, but maybe is that just me),
HTML, DHTML, perl and php and SVG (dreamweaver|flash|director no thanks, I don't wanna burn someones processor, and as you guessed in any editor that support them),
(what is that? I guess I don't need it) logic
Open Ofice (microsoft office - all my documentation is larger than 50 pages so I'm tired of reformating)
Wrong, nature of my bussines forces me to use MacOS and MacOSX.
So after 4.5 years of use of Apple. Where's that something new you say about? This interests me, really no trolling.
My point of view is: (no troll)
1.slower than MacOS
2.more ofensive to the eyes than MacOS
3.Not as friendly
4.confusion is on much higher level than MacOS (read as, not that simple), well confusion is even higher than in Linux (at least linux is a Unix like and not some semi hidden (system level) unix like OSX made with compromises)
I care about alternative, That's the main reason I switched from Windows (was using it at home (and ashamed of the fact) and it's still 30% need in my bussines), Mac (slowly moving off), SGI and HP-UX (my first and best) to Linux:-).
"way to get comfortable with the Mac OS X environment if you are a Linux user"
So I should buy expensive material and build my self a Mercedes? Well, it's way more simple if you buy a Mercedes. To stay at the fact, he was promoting administrators desktop not users desktop, so... why all that work when there is a better solution? Isn't that what Apple promotes or is just me?
On the other hand this "comfortable" is not correct, this would be running from the fact and evading running native tools and software. You don't mean to say they will run on OSX forever, at last, Apple is a commercial company
But damn, you should listen sometimes to what you say, what you said at the end is smart and you can say that to almost every begginer or promoting almost anything. So try alternative, I did
I know your intention was good.
But, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to buy a PC and install Linux.
Answers on your thinking what to say next
1. No, I don't need any commercial applications, at least mac doesn't cover that department of software
2. No, I my case is much nicer than Apple case, I'm very selective one
3. Yes, I tryed OSX, even Jaguar, toooo sloooow
Wrong, there is one way to use flash as one hell of a software.
In cold times you could use it to burn processors at maximum and keep computer warm.