I agree with your point, and am not sure about one thing:
Shame on you for actively trying to damage these girls' outlook with regards to the other half of the population.
My experience hints me to the possibility that cellurl believes that she is doing and saying the right thing. Because that's what was done to her, and she never questioned that belief. So now, it's "truth," along with many other implanted beliefs.
Teaching Sunday school is all about indoctrination and conditioning. With the teachers truly believing that they are spreading light and good, with the best of intentions. Of course! This is the best way to have good people do evil, to poison children's minds, teach them self-hate, shame, obedience, fear.
The church has been doing it for millennia, along with torturing, ethnic cleansing, corruption and killing. That's the only way it can exist.
Here's a little dose of understanding and compassion to balance your frustration:
Babies usually cry because of discomfort or pressing need for something. Bed-wetting is not a choice.
Finding someone else's otherwise harmful behavior intolerable reveals severe discomfort to an internal reaction to said behavior. That's usually caused by severe conditioning. The results are fear, anger, ignorance and damage. I can imagine this is intolerable I can understand the overwhelming need for controlling others.
Of course, in a free society, allowing damaged minds to change everybody else, instead facing their own discomfort, is too high a price to pay. It is letting a mentally unbalanced individuals to dictate the reality for everyone. No need to re-enfoce this millennia-long tendency.
Unfortunately they are also very determined and violent as a result of their sickness.
Except that it's not a straw on the back of the camel. It has nothing to do with the camel. The camel lied about a straw. There is no straw.
If the government lies in order to fire an employee, that is an important story. Whoever made that decision and the ones supporting them have no integrity and are not worthy of trust.
As you see, people have to watch what they say here, too. This is not a hypothetical situation, it is reality.
Powerful people make choices changing others' lives based on ignorance, judgement, hearsay, fear, hate.
Remember two things: 1. The laws (here, and almost everywhere) are changing towards more power for large entities and less power for individuals. It is only natural as it is large entities that use politicians to write laws they like. 2. What we share online is archived, indexed and easily accessible and traceable to us, forever.
Unless something unexpected happens, it is only a matter of time that things that are perfectly legal today will be made illegal very soon, continuously. And, as nobody can really keep track of all the laws, many, many of us are/will be on the wrong side of some law.
I don't like it either but "thought crime" has been around for a long time and is here to stay. I think that situations like this make the issue visible, rather than indicate that it's just happening for the first time. On the contrary, our communicating in the open, and others' reactions to our beliefs and (gasp!) speech, are a litmus test of the state of our culture and society.
As long as someone gets punished for something they said (apart from investigating, not punishing, direct life threats etc.) we have to own that there is no freedom of (public) speech.
Thoughtcrime has been around from before the years of the Holy Inquisition (by the way the real face of the church:)
We are just starting to notice it and hopefully the next step will be acknowledging that entities trying to enforce it as reality are out of line.
Or, we stay quiet and acknowledge that what they're doing is alright with us.
Why, what is your take on pacifists? Or, if you are willing to take this a step further and not indulge in stereotypes, maybe you can point out a few wars that brought positive results for the general population of the involved nations and not just for the weapon makers and the tyrants involved?
I fail to see how wars improve anything that is worth the cost of wars. Yes, they bring results from the perspective of powerful people taking what they want and making others submit through violence. How does that bring good to the people who are violated, either by committing the violence (massive mental health cost even for soldiers brainwashed into dehumanizing "the enemy") or being shot, jailed, tortured, maimed, bombed, crippled, burned, killed by said soldiers, with or without a clear reason. This whole process removes any hope for ending terrorism, it breeds it like nothing else, as violence is the natural reaction to the desperation, injustice, pain and hate.
I fail to see the logic behind paying such an enormous cost just to make a few ultrarich people a little richer. Maybe you can help?
I am not being sarcastic, please try to explain using logic.
Sounds like inflicting pain and suffering is somehow "good" and erases the "debt" existing pain and suffering.
Do you really believe this works? Any examples of a revenge situation ending in peace, agreement and understanding?
Paying for blood with blood is common in adventure books and action movies. But in reality it just perpetuates and escalates the pain, trauma and suffering.
And yes, I can see how the oppressive and punitive school system creates enough rage in kids for something like this to be fairly common.
Although torturing children is a centuries-long tradition, its only lasting effects are to damage the children and satisfy the righteousness of the executioners. And, it achieves compliance in the short term, at tremendous cost: permanent loss of trust, secrecy, fear, stress, mental illness, rage, and the worst of all, the lesson that violence is the way to get what you want and that getting what you want at any cost is OK.
I would say that having a word with all parents explaining the situation resulting with a signed agreement for paying the clean-up bill would be a better way to handle this, along with a list of acceptable alternative snacks. Yes, it would take some imagination and leadership, which is more difficult than using a whip, but it works better in the long term and gets easier with practice.
Teachers ought to know that punishment doesn't work in the long run.
Of course, being raised in a culture of punishment+rewards=obedience culture, they are unaware of the cycle of slave conditioning and oppression they perpetuate.
A more common sense approach would be to create a solution that offers alternatives to parents and makes sure parents *understand* why alternatives are necessary.
Rules enforced by violence are the opposite of leadership.
This is an organization of power, corruption and lust. It was never, ever, anything else. The outrage comes from the true face of the organization being revealed and it's people who were deceived who are outraged. For the rest of us, who weren't indoctrinated as children, this is just obvious obviously. The rape, murder, torture, slavery, brainwashing and conquest are the true business of the church.
My recommendation to the/. community: pick up a history book and wake up.
Next up: the smiley face of walmart covers up some nasty shit, too. Surprised? I know! It's a *smiley*!!! Who would've thought!
And, the child molestation is just the top of the iceberg. Corrupting people's inherent personal relationship with divinity in the name of control and power is quite evil. Teaching hate, fear and obedience and calling them love is quite evil, too.
This is not about protecting content. It is protecting content "owners" desire to perpetually sell the content by creating laws that support that desire at the expense of the general public.
Human nature is one of sharing, remixing, co-creating. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.
In business, like in war, the party with the least compassion wins.
People who lobby for draconian IP laws are not creators, inventors, artists. They are the middlemen, trying to squeeze maximum profit and lock in their ownership of others' creations forever. Any politician that votes for such laws is by definition not serving the people, not doing their job, and deserves to be immediately removed from their position due to their being corrupted.
1. The people profiting from their sales 2. The people making engineering decisions 3. The people employing them in their daily routine ( cops, security etc.) 4. And their loved ones (friends, lovers, children, pets), in the presence of the parties described above.
Parenting as a power-over relationship where the child is trained in obedience is just one of the options.
What a parent could do is treat a child with respect and not rely on obedience/slave training to prepare their child for life. Getting one's child to obey is not parenting but domination.
It is possible to have respectful peaceful relationships in the family, based not on violence (fear, guilt, isolation) and manipulation (rewards and punishment) but on emotional intelligence and collaboration.
Check out the work of Alfie Kohn and Naomi Aldort for a start.
Let's not confuse the Church's conquest for influence, gold, land, slaves, and human children's innocence with logic or spirituality.
Of course they are scared shitless and want to control their children's thinking. That's how it's been done for centuries. The main purpose of the Church is to have as many followers as possible. More than "that other" religion. Hence no birth control. Hence sending "messengers of god" to convert new people etc. etc.
Having different gods is like having different laws of physics. Takes some suspension of belief if you know what I mean. What a masterful manipulation it is to distort the sacred relationship with divinity humans inherently possess into a tool for obedience & control.
Go Texas! The more desperate the clowns, the more absurd the circus.
You think he didn't learn that lesson? You really think he'll leave his gun out again next week?
I get your anger but locking the living family's parent/husband away is not an improvement to the situation.
The only result of punishment is satisfaction to people who like to see others suffer. It only works as behavior modification in the very short run, and with huge consequences.
What additional lesson will criminal charges add to the lesson he already learned?
How does such punishment and taking the father away along with his income improve the family's situation?
I understand that in the USA correctional system = punishment + retaliation + sadism + exploitation, but even then, who's retaliating in this situation? He is also the victim. His child was killed.
Don't follow your logic.
Should be punished, should be shamed, should be burned... Not constructive.
Companies have been running our government(s) for a while now. The natural result is that the government and the laws it enforces are creating conditions pushing the people into the role of servants / slaves of the companies. It is true that companies are also made of people, too. So, we see different conditions for the people who stay on top of the companies.
The superrich live in a world of incredible healthcare, luxury, super high quality products, food, services. The rest of us fall towards slavery, pollution, bad or lacking healthcare etc.
You get the picture. Tendencies haven't changed since the Roman Empire, or earlier.
Slashdot Mirror
It is fixable, with therapy, lots of time and loving support from understanding friends and lovers.
She may have to move and re-create her life somewhere else.
Sex=shame is one of the most fucked up things invented in order to control women and take their power away.
A sexually empowered woman is a power to behold and scares many men shitless.
I agree with your point, and am not sure about one thing:
Shame on you for actively trying to damage these girls' outlook with regards to the other half of the population.
My experience hints me to the possibility that cellurl believes that she is doing and saying the right thing. Because that's what was done to her, and she never questioned that belief. So now, it's "truth," along with many other implanted beliefs.
Teaching Sunday school is all about indoctrination and conditioning. With the teachers truly believing that they are spreading light and good, with the best of intentions. Of course! This is the best way to have good people do evil, to poison children's minds, teach them self-hate, shame, obedience, fear.
The church has been doing it for millennia, along with torturing, ethnic cleansing, corruption and killing. That's the only way it can exist.
I meant to say "harmless", not harmful.
Here's a little dose of understanding and compassion to balance your frustration:
Babies usually cry because of discomfort or pressing need for something.
Bed-wetting is not a choice.
Finding someone else's otherwise harmful behavior intolerable reveals severe discomfort to an internal reaction to said behavior. That's usually caused by severe conditioning. The results are fear, anger, ignorance and damage. I can imagine this is intolerable I can understand the overwhelming need for controlling others.
Of course, in a free society, allowing damaged minds to change everybody else, instead facing their own discomfort, is too high a price to pay. It is letting a mentally unbalanced individuals to dictate the reality for everyone. No need to re-enfoce this millennia-long tendency.
Unfortunately they are also very determined and violent as a result of their sickness.
In fact, it's someone speaking "for the city."
In the same way child-raping priests speak "for god."
Now, that's a way to frame it... media, where are you?
Except that it's not a straw on the back of the camel. It has nothing to do with the camel. The camel lied about a straw. There is no straw.
If the government lies in order to fire an employee, that is an important story. Whoever made that decision and the ones supporting them have no integrity and are not worthy of trust.
As you see, people have to watch what they say here, too. This is not a hypothetical situation, it is reality.
Powerful people make choices changing others' lives based on ignorance, judgement, hearsay, fear, hate.
Remember two things: 1. The laws (here, and almost everywhere) are changing towards more power for large entities and less power for individuals. It is only natural as it is large entities that use politicians to write laws they like. 2. What we share online is archived, indexed and easily accessible and traceable to us, forever.
Unless something unexpected happens, it is only a matter of time that things that are perfectly legal today will be made illegal very soon, continuously. And, as nobody can really keep track of all the laws, many, many of us are/will be on the wrong side of some law.
I don't like it either but "thought crime" has been around for a long time and is here to stay. I think that situations like this make the issue visible, rather than indicate that it's just happening for the first time. On the contrary, our communicating in the open, and others' reactions to our beliefs and (gasp!) speech, are a litmus test of the state of our culture and society.
As long as someone gets punished for something they said (apart from investigating, not punishing, direct life threats etc.) we have to own that there is no freedom of (public) speech.
Thoughtcrime has been around from before the years of the Holy Inquisition (by the way the real face of the church :)
We are just starting to notice it and hopefully the next step will be acknowledging that entities trying to enforce it as reality are out of line.
Or, we stay quiet and acknowledge that what they're doing is alright with us.
Why, what is your take on pacifists? Or, if you are willing to take this a step further and not indulge in stereotypes, maybe you can point out a few wars that brought positive results for the general population of the involved nations and not just for the weapon makers and the tyrants involved?
I fail to see how wars improve anything that is worth the cost of wars. Yes, they bring results from the perspective of powerful people taking what they want and making others submit through violence. How does that bring good to the people who are violated, either by committing the violence (massive mental health cost even for soldiers brainwashed into dehumanizing "the enemy") or being shot, jailed, tortured, maimed, bombed, crippled, burned, killed by said soldiers, with or without a clear reason. This whole process removes any hope for ending terrorism, it breeds it like nothing else, as violence is the natural reaction to the desperation, injustice, pain and hate.
I fail to see the logic behind paying such an enormous cost just to make a few ultrarich people a little richer. Maybe you can help?
I am not being sarcastic, please try to explain using logic.
"makes them pay"
Sounds like inflicting pain and suffering is somehow "good" and erases the "debt" existing pain and suffering.
Do you really believe this works? Any examples of a revenge situation ending in peace, agreement and understanding?
Paying for blood with blood is common in adventure books and action movies. But in reality it just perpetuates and escalates the pain, trauma and suffering.
And yes, I can see how the oppressive and punitive school system creates enough rage in kids for something like this to be fairly common.
Deserve punishment = deserve torture.
Although torturing children is a centuries-long tradition, its only lasting effects are to damage the children and satisfy the righteousness of the executioners. And, it achieves compliance in the short term, at tremendous cost: permanent loss of trust, secrecy, fear, stress, mental illness, rage, and the worst of all, the lesson that violence is the way to get what you want and that getting what you want at any cost is OK.
I would say that having a word with all parents explaining the situation resulting with a signed agreement for paying the clean-up bill would be a better way to handle this, along with a list of acceptable alternative snacks. Yes, it would take some imagination and leadership, which is more difficult than using a whip, but it works better in the long term and gets easier with practice.
Teachers ought to know that punishment doesn't work in the long run.
Of course, being raised in a culture of punishment+rewards=obedience culture, they are unaware of the cycle of slave conditioning and oppression they perpetuate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRE2gqjQx5Q
A more common sense approach would be to create a solution that offers alternatives to parents and makes sure parents *understand* why alternatives are necessary.
Rules enforced by violence are the opposite of leadership.
Too trendy. Bastards will have their way with it and there's nothing you can do.
This is not about atheist vs religious.
This is about people who think child rape is OK, vs people who don't think so.
The church obviously supports child rape. Do you?
This is an organization of power, corruption and lust. It was never, ever, anything else. The outrage comes from the true face of the organization being revealed and it's people who were deceived who are outraged. For the rest of us, who weren't indoctrinated as children, this is just obvious obviously. The rape, murder, torture, slavery, brainwashing and conquest are the true business of the church.
My recommendation to the /. community: pick up a history book and wake up.
Next up: the smiley face of walmart covers up some nasty shit, too. Surprised? I know! It's a *smiley*!!! Who would've thought!
Oh, the intertubes!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k&feature=player_embedded
And, the child molestation is just the top of the iceberg. Corrupting people's inherent personal relationship with divinity in the name of control and power is quite evil. Teaching hate, fear and obedience and calling them love is quite evil, too.
Pope, church, impolite and evil!
This is not about protecting content. It is protecting content "owners" desire to perpetually sell the content by creating laws that support that desire at the expense of the general public.
Human nature is one of sharing, remixing, co-creating. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.
In business, like in war, the party with the least compassion wins.
People who lobby for draconian IP laws are not creators, inventors, artists. They are the middlemen, trying to squeeze maximum profit and lock in their ownership of others' creations forever. Any politician that votes for such laws is by definition not serving the people, not doing their job, and deserves to be immediately removed from their position due to their being corrupted.
Simple.
1. The people profiting from their sales
2. The people making engineering decisions
3. The people employing them in their daily routine ( cops, security etc.)
4. And their loved ones (friends, lovers, children, pets), in the presence of the parties described above.
Then we'll have truly humane technology
Parenting as a power-over relationship where the child is trained in obedience is just one of the options.
What a parent could do is treat a child with respect and not rely on obedience/slave training to prepare their child for life. Getting one's child to obey is not parenting but domination.
It is possible to have respectful peaceful relationships in the family, based not on violence (fear, guilt, isolation) and manipulation (rewards and punishment) but on emotional intelligence and collaboration.
Check out the work of Alfie Kohn and Naomi Aldort for a start.
Very revealing question.
Let's not confuse the Church's conquest for influence, gold, land, slaves, and human children's innocence with logic or spirituality.
Of course they are scared shitless and want to control their children's thinking. That's how it's been done for centuries. The main purpose of the Church is to have as many followers as possible. More than "that other" religion. Hence no birth control. Hence sending "messengers of god" to convert new people etc. etc.
Having different gods is like having different laws of physics. Takes some suspension of belief if you know what I mean. What a masterful manipulation it is to distort the sacred relationship with divinity humans inherently possess into a tool for obedience & control.
Go Texas! The more desperate the clowns, the more absurd the circus.
You think he didn't learn that lesson? You really think he'll leave his gun out again next week?
I get your anger but locking the living family's parent/husband away is not an improvement to the situation.
The only result of punishment is satisfaction to people who like to see others suffer. It only works as behavior modification in the very short run, and with huge consequences.
What additional lesson will criminal charges add to the lesson he already learned?
How does such punishment and taking the father away along with his income improve the family's situation?
I understand that in the USA correctional system = punishment + retaliation + sadism + exploitation, but even then, who's retaliating in this situation? He is also the victim. His child was killed.
Don't follow your logic.
Should be punished, should be shamed, should be burned... Not constructive.
This is a great example of the knee-jerk reaction process that the government employs.
Creating overreaching laws and rules for everyone is very rarely the solution to a problem.
We Americans can teach everyone about Hype of Freedom.
Let's just not mistake it for the real thing.
Companies have been running our government(s) for a while now. The natural result is that the government and the laws it enforces are creating conditions pushing the people into the role of servants / slaves of the companies. It is true that companies are also made of people, too. So, we see different conditions for the people who stay on top of the companies.
The superrich live in a world of incredible healthcare, luxury, super high quality products, food, services. The rest of us fall towards slavery, pollution, bad or lacking healthcare etc.
You get the picture. Tendencies haven't changed since the Roman Empire, or earlier.
What is different now is that never have we been so well informed or educated. I think we have a chance to enforce change in these tendencies, once and for all. Changing Money from a tool for enslavement to a measure of gratitude could be a good beginning.