I think you are missing the point of what Open Source really means. And this Java issue is probably one of the best examples that can be found.
There are always the arguements that tomorrow Sun will announce that everyone using Java has to pay them big sums of money or go to jail. But this isn't the problem to worry about. Sun knows there would be a lot of fall-out on an about face like this.
The problem is the outside forces acting upon the core concept that Sun has outlined on Java. These can alter or erode the philosophy upon which Java has thrived for so many years and turn it into a revenue generating scheme.
The easy example is Microsoft buys Sun tomorrow and tells everyone to pay up or die. And all Unix support can just kiss off for all they care. Could this happen, yes. Will it? I don't know yet.
So what's the worry? The slow process of erosion. Lets say Sun gets back on it's feet in making some really decent hardware. They have the controls on Java to start making it work better for them and not necessarily as well for others. What's there defense? They have limited resources available in their corporation and in order to remain competative, they have to innovate on their preferred hardware platforms. This could also happen in a partnership arrangement between Sun and another hardware manufacturer. Now you have a problem with getting the proper support for your platform.
But you say such things can't happen. They already are. Finding drivers compatable with last years NVidia card proves troublesome. Are they working on it? Not as fast as they are working on their next hardware release. This is example that I experience personally and can vouche for. I'm sure others can be found.
As long as the development platform of Java is owned and operated by a tangible entity, which can also itself be owned, sued, purchased, or coerced, there will be the possibility that things may take a turn for the worse and unless you are in exactly where they want you to be, you're screwed.
How hard would it be for them to continue with a seemless OO platform with Java integration only to pull the plug on Linux in six years after signing a partnership agreement with Windows? Could it happen? Certainly. Where would all the Linux users be then? Without a database interface and without a lot of utilities that they've grown accustomed to on their Office products. Sure they could revert to something else that would work, but why take that detour of using closed source in the first place?
It's called "bait and switch" marketing. It's also referred to as Pusher marketing. You give it away for free until they are hooked on it and then you start charging for it after they are convinced they have to have it.
Some of these Open Source Dudes seem pretty whacked with their zealotry, but when you consider that the two most common development tools in Unix: Emacs and Vim, are both free it drives home a point that Open Source software CAN be as good as anything else. So why shouldn't it be? Open Office picking up Java is a step backwards.
It's so much more humane to blow the brains out of your food than to ruthlessly rip it out of the ground. Plants have no chance. They have no fight or flight mechanisms.
I find it more than a little strange that the following information gels into one picture.
After SuSE's purchase by Novell, it's been generally reported that people are leaving SuSE and anectdotally moving to Debian.
RedHat's mixed with a possible loss in customer base through the recent move to the "Core" distros. But the continuing American love affair with RedHat would tend to counter this. Yet RedHat is a distant third and behind Mandrake and SuSE.
Debian can drop almost 50% in one year? That's too many points in one year to be accepted as is. Being on the Debian mailing list I find very few mentions of people dropping or moving.
Considering that AFAIK the only distro that seriously supports WindowMaker in the upper curst of the list is Debian, I'm not surprised that WindowMaker has tanked since no one else ships it. Too bad, great desktop.
KDE would grow based on the exclusivity on SuSE. But it's also gaining a lot of ground. Not too surprising really.
It's an interesting report, but the statistical significance of the whole thing might be a little suspect.
don't leave early. If he with holds your paycheck you can take him to court. Unless you signed an agreement upon hiring to find a replacement... which I doubt.
As E-Terrorists and then all those useless windows users who never update anything become participants to the crimes.
I guess all this depends on a legal precendent that failure to take action consititues participation in the crime. But the only place I know of this to exist is in Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics.
If he is so interested in helping Debian, then why is he promoting a distribution based on Debian that is not backwards compatable to Debian? It's already been mentioned that Unbuntu breaks a lot of the packages and that.debs for Unbuntu will just not work under Debian.
That doesn't sound like helping Debian, but forking Debian.
My concern about Unbuntu is that they still do not have a viable business model. Without that, they are always at risk of just folding up and going away to some extent. Will they disappear entirely, I doubt it. But they will certainly take a hit.
Debian has a long standing history, so it's not likely to go away anytime soon.
By the way, Debian has a pretty nice installer now. Not GUI cute, but very effective.
If you don't do anything other than whine on Slashdot this will pass.
I'm well aware of how many foreign workers there are in my office. I'm also well aware of how inexpensive they are despite how much their contracting companies charge (someones getting rich). What I'm constantly reminded of is just how bad they are through lack of experience, lack of understanding of business systems, lack of communication skills...
If I actually worked on sofware development (I do, but the company won't label me as such) I would be absolutely terrified at this development. He, and his friends, have easily a billion dollars to invest towards killing your paycheck. What do you have in defense? What's your counter arguement?
And take a clue from the UAW history. Unionizing software development might stay the course for a period of time, but at a great cost to the end consumer, the national industry, and of course corporations and human lives. Realize that the first thing you will be are pseudo-terrorists.
Eventually, Gates will win his case in the current environment. Unless you can prove the added value of having local workers then the American Software industry (from an employment point of view) is effectively dead. And as locals leave the industry, the industry will leave the nation and we will lose what little technical edge we may have today. We will become consumers of not only VCR's but of Technology and IP.
It's ironic that companies protect IP in the country, but when everyone they hire to develop the IP lives outside of the country, they may not be able to protect that IP over international borders.
Look bonehead. I can post the fucking code for you if you want but I know the following to be facts.
Write code to run a fork program in perl on a linux box. It works great. 100%.
Copy said code to a Solaris box that has perl compiled using gcc on it. It sucks donkey balls. it's losing data and copying data all over the fucking place and sucks worse than Windows.
Recompile perl on Solaris using the Solaric compiler (NOT GCC!!!) and it works fucking great. 100%. No fucking problems here.
Now, how could you possibly state that this isn't a problem with the GCC when clearly it is. I believe the code went something like this:
while () {
push @data, $_;
if ($#data > 1000) {
$pid = fork
}
next if $pid
}
# do the child process stuff down here
And the children all have screwed up @data Some are duplicated, others are missing data.
Simple Games have a great value. They are easy to learn, simple to play and are extremely effective at being a diversion.
I have effectively dropped all gaming in my home on the simple fact that all the games are the same:
You are some Joe Dude or Super Guy.
You must Kill, Kill, Kill
You must solve stupid riddles of some form or another. Which button to press, What's the code, where's the remote? That kind of crap.
You win by Killing
they are also all very dark, literally. The screen displays are only good for playing in closets, dungeons, or night time. And most of the villians are either half decayed humanoids or genetically mutated gerbils with attitudes.
The gaming industry is in trouble. They're stuck on one recipe for gaming and before long, everyone will grow tired of it. Then we'll probably have a rebirth of Donkey Kong, Joust, Railroad Tycoon.
IMHO, Doom is still the best game ever. Simple, effective, entertaining.
Read data in from a 'while()' statement and store it into an array. When it reaches a certain size, fork the process, kill the array and start filling it up from STDIN. Next time you fork your data is partially duplicated in Solaris and not at all duplicated under Linux.
I found an odd bug that was posted under pre-5.005 version of perl running on solaris. When you fork, filehandles and locations get carried into the child process when they aren't supposed to. I spent two weeks on this.
Turns out that the problem is with the gcc compiler. Works great if you have the solaris compiler.
I'll be curious to see if gcc4 has managed to fix this bug, it's many years old by now.
Re:GCC 4.0's biggest winner is probably KDE
on
GCC 4.0.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
This is assuming you have 512MB of RAM available for the desktop. Not all notebooks come with that luxury you know...
I'm in the automotive industry and it does come with artificial bullshit, just a different flavor.
It is more relaxed about attire than some, but more uptight than others. Much of this depends on where you land. The closer to the Mother Ship, the more suits you will find.
Slashdot Mirror
I think you are missing the point of what Open Source really means. And this Java issue is probably one of the best examples that can be found.
There are always the arguements that tomorrow Sun will announce that everyone using Java has to pay them big sums of money or go to jail. But this isn't the problem to worry about. Sun knows there would be a lot of fall-out on an about face like this.
The problem is the outside forces acting upon the core concept that Sun has outlined on Java. These can alter or erode the philosophy upon which Java has thrived for so many years and turn it into a revenue generating scheme.
The easy example is Microsoft buys Sun tomorrow and tells everyone to pay up or die. And all Unix support can just kiss off for all they care. Could this happen, yes. Will it? I don't know yet.
So what's the worry? The slow process of erosion. Lets say Sun gets back on it's feet in making some really decent hardware. They have the controls on Java to start making it work better for them and not necessarily as well for others. What's there defense? They have limited resources available in their corporation and in order to remain competative, they have to innovate on their preferred hardware platforms. This could also happen in a partnership arrangement between Sun and another hardware manufacturer. Now you have a problem with getting the proper support for your platform.
But you say such things can't happen. They already are. Finding drivers compatable with last years NVidia card proves troublesome. Are they working on it? Not as fast as they are working on their next hardware release. This is example that I experience personally and can vouche for. I'm sure others can be found.
As long as the development platform of Java is owned and operated by a tangible entity, which can also itself be owned, sued, purchased, or coerced, there will be the possibility that things may take a turn for the worse and unless you are in exactly where they want you to be, you're screwed.
How hard would it be for them to continue with a seemless OO platform with Java integration only to pull the plug on Linux in six years after signing a partnership agreement with Windows? Could it happen? Certainly. Where would all the Linux users be then? Without a database interface and without a lot of utilities that they've grown accustomed to on their Office products. Sure they could revert to something else that would work, but why take that detour of using closed source in the first place?
It's called "bait and switch" marketing. It's also referred to as Pusher marketing. You give it away for free until they are hooked on it and then you start charging for it after they are convinced they have to have it.
Some of these Open Source Dudes seem pretty whacked with their zealotry, but when you consider that the two most common development tools in Unix: Emacs and Vim, are both free it drives home a point that Open Source software CAN be as good as anything else. So why shouldn't it be? Open Office picking up Java is a step backwards.
When I tried SuSE last year it shipped with WindowMaker but it had very few WM specific widgets available and was poorly configured.
Although shipped, not well supported.
If you used Debian you'd be working by now?
Slackware rocks! It was my learning distro for years.
I ended up on Debian because of the simplicity and selection.
It's so much more humane to blow the brains out of your food than to ruthlessly rip it out of the ground. Plants have no chance. They have no fight or flight mechanisms.
I find it more than a little strange that the following information gels into one picture.
It's an interesting report, but the statistical significance of the whole thing might be a little suspect.
Distrowatch counts downloads, not installations. People are testing it, but no proof that they are continuing to use it.
don't leave early. If he with holds your paycheck you can take him to court. Unless you signed an agreement upon hiring to find a replacement... which I doubt.
As E-Terrorists and then all those useless windows users who never update anything become participants to the crimes.
I guess all this depends on a legal precendent that failure to take action consititues participation in the crime. But the only place I know of this to exist is in Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics.
You don't have to load any of those modules if you don't want to. Thereby simplifying the code path...
That's why they choose to make them modules rather than baking them into the application itself.
Bullshit! Prove it.
Agent Orange cost them at least 1.57 ass-loads of cash.
American with Disabilities act.
You're wrong.
Perhaps you should review the history of the last Micorsoft Monopoly case. While they Government Lawyers won the case, Microsoft clearly won the war.
This was a turning point in my perception of American Government.
The question still remains:
- Will Open Office, AbiWord, et al adopt this?
- Will Microsoft adopt this?
- Will adoption mean Default, Available Option, or partial support (import only)
It's a step in the right direction, no doubt, but how will this be addressed in practice?If he is so interested in helping Debian, then why is he promoting a distribution based on Debian that is not backwards compatable to Debian? It's already been mentioned that Unbuntu breaks a lot of the packages and that .debs for Unbuntu will just not work under Debian.
That doesn't sound like helping Debian, but forking Debian.
My concern about Unbuntu is that they still do not have a viable business model. Without that, they are always at risk of just folding up and going away to some extent. Will they disappear entirely, I doubt it. But they will certainly take a hit.
Debian has a long standing history, so it's not likely to go away anytime soon.
By the way, Debian has a pretty nice installer now. Not GUI cute, but very effective.
If you don't do anything other than whine on Slashdot this will pass.
I'm well aware of how many foreign workers there are in my office. I'm also well aware of how inexpensive they are despite how much their contracting companies charge (someones getting rich). What I'm constantly reminded of is just how bad they are through lack of experience, lack of understanding of business systems, lack of communication skills...
If I actually worked on sofware development (I do, but the company won't label me as such) I would be absolutely terrified at this development. He, and his friends, have easily a billion dollars to invest towards killing your paycheck. What do you have in defense? What's your counter arguement?
And take a clue from the UAW history. Unionizing software development might stay the course for a period of time, but at a great cost to the end consumer, the national industry, and of course corporations and human lives. Realize that the first thing you will be are pseudo-terrorists.
Eventually, Gates will win his case in the current environment. Unless you can prove the added value of having local workers then the American Software industry (from an employment point of view) is effectively dead. And as locals leave the industry, the industry will leave the nation and we will lose what little technical edge we may have today. We will become consumers of not only VCR's but of Technology and IP.
It's ironic that companies protect IP in the country, but when everyone they hire to develop the IP lives outside of the country, they may not be able to protect that IP over international borders.
Look bonehead. I can post the fucking code for you if you want but I know the following to be facts.
Write code to run a fork program in perl on a linux box. It works great. 100%.
Copy said code to a Solaris box that has perl compiled using gcc on it. It sucks donkey balls. it's losing data and copying data all over the fucking place and sucks worse than Windows.
Recompile perl on Solaris using the Solaric compiler (NOT GCC!!!) and it works fucking great. 100%. No fucking problems here.
Now, how could you possibly state that this isn't a problem with the GCC when clearly it is. I believe the code went something like this:
while () { push @data, $_; if ($#data > 1000) { $pid = fork } next if $pid } # do the child process stuff down hereAnd the children all have screwed up @data Some are duplicated, others are missing data.
Simple Games have a great value. They are easy to learn, simple to play and are extremely effective at being a diversion.
I have effectively dropped all gaming in my home on the simple fact that all the games are the same:
- You are some Joe Dude or Super Guy.
- You must Kill, Kill, Kill
- You must solve stupid riddles of some form or another. Which button to press, What's the code, where's the remote? That kind of crap.
- You win by Killing
they are also all very dark, literally. The screen displays are only good for playing in closets, dungeons, or night time. And most of the villians are either half decayed humanoids or genetically mutated gerbils with attitudes.The gaming industry is in trouble. They're stuck on one recipe for gaming and before long, everyone will grow tired of it. Then we'll probably have a rebirth of Donkey Kong, Joust, Railroad Tycoon.
IMHO, Doom is still the best game ever. Simple, effective, entertaining.
It's not supposed to fork the file pointer.
Read data in from a 'while()' statement and store it into an array. When it reaches a certain size, fork the process, kill the array and start filling it up from STDIN. Next time you fork your data is partially duplicated in Solaris and not at all duplicated under Linux.
Personally, I liked the earlier practice of running stable even releases (2.4) and testing/developing on odd releases (2.5).
I realize that they have abandoned that in 2.6, but I don't really understand why they did that.
I found an odd bug that was posted under pre-5.005 version of perl running on solaris. When you fork, filehandles and locations get carried into the child process when they aren't supposed to. I spent two weeks on this.
Turns out that the problem is with the gcc compiler. Works great if you have the solaris compiler.
I'll be curious to see if gcc4 has managed to fix this bug, it's many years old by now.
This is assuming you have 512MB of RAM available for the desktop. Not all notebooks come with that luxury you know...
I'm in the automotive industry and it does come with artificial bullshit, just a different flavor.
It is more relaxed about attire than some, but more uptight than others. Much of this depends on where you land. The closer to the Mother Ship, the more suits you will find.
I wonder who will be the first one to run:
- Linux Running VMware running...
- Windows Running VirtualServer2005 running...
- Linux Running WMware running...
You get the idea..Sorry, not a defect of the software, that's an error somewhere between the keyboard and the chair!