Whoever is going to use Debian for desktop can just stand back for a moment. Please go Ubuntu or something else or the testing releases. Debian should have been the rock solid stable distro that can sit in a server with least maintenance to do against other distro who often break things, update configuration file structure suddenly and change the behaviour of an application than put only security patches back ported.
Sure, getting 2.6 kernel makes many SATA and whatnot to work, but who was making the release cycle? Why did 3.1 take so long and why is 4.0 coming out so soon with massive changes?
I'm starting to doubt Debian would keep up being the most stable solid for use with servers distro.
I mean, a serious network server doesn't need any X for sake, which means all Fedora and whatnot are just out of my way, when it comes to using them as real serving purposes. Now what should I use when Debian starts to be Ubuntu catch up distro? I would go back to some BSD sacrificing performance for the sake of better security model and less maintenance cost.
ok, for people like you who need money out of web, please keep getting the money. for people who do it for fun/hobby and people in the working groups can start thinking a better way, so stop telling your need for money are in the way of web development. Webs aren't just for the corporates.
if you install it, you see it's actually the gray theme not just the screenshot... too bad they tried to give bad impression to some average people to put them away fast.
too bad they came up with a 5 years old GTK 1 toolkit for some bizzare reason. but on linux, they do look fancy enough... if u do give a search on google image with 'evolution linux'
but then again, someone pointed out the features aren't good enough to replace outlook anyway... so everybody needs to sit tight a few more years till this gets back on news again.
Wow geez... why do they even use GTK 1 for this? This GUI is GTK, which is used by GIMP and GAIM and other cross platform applications, but they all got GTK 2, which does blend in Windows theme decent enough.
But this... is like Linux before year 2000. Ugly gray theme... I hope they just released to show off that it actually now runs on Windows... Maybe wait a few years to get this actually start to get usable.
Btw in Linux, Evolution has a GTK 2 GUI, which is the whole GNOME desktop environment GTK that matches with any other applications, so at least on Linux it does look nice.
foss is about being loud and exagerating thinking they're the purist and the future and all... i do appreciate the effort of the applications getting made and distributed for free and i do use them often as well.
but the way they claim their software is nothing far from any companies trying to make big advertisements...only it probably doesn't even do what's said well enough.
I think it's news because for once, it's a chance to switch the main OS for daily use. You can just buy a Mac and be done with it, but many people still need some specific apps on Windows keeping them under Windows for the past decade and on.
If this can run Windows apps fine (non 3D ones) then it's about time quite a number of people can try to make a switch off of an OS that they were stuck for a decade. And don't start with Linux which is an immature desktop OS.
Wow, what do you guys eat to get that high cpu cycles for an machine? Just erase any unnecessary softwares out... seriously it's the best way to make your Windows run stable and fast.
I simply get 0% cpu cycle on my WinXP watching task manager's graph drawing a horizontal line at the bottom with about 300MB of unused RAM on a 512MB ram machine. It's not the Windows... it's you that's abbusing the system resource.
You just said customer don't care about verisign and whatnot but at start saying take Verisign for being famous... Why don't you just take the cheaper deal?
Or I still even think customer don't care to click 1 extra step for accepting some verification screen if the web tells you to click and it's safe and the price fits their demand... Why make cost on certificate? Not that they are going to put in a great frame and mail it to you.
Intel AMD whatnot surely made good progress on the hardware, but who got the interest to buy those or the profit for the manufacturer to go further if it wasn't for the affordable OS that Gates put around the world? In that sense, it was the Gates that did it, and who knows if someone else might have done if it wasn't for Gates, but still, he did it.
Buy a NAS. It's got all the file sharing protocols installed from smb, cifs, afp, ftp, nfs with decent storage size up to 1TB and just let Windows mount the share in a public folder, everyone in the network can see it.
Do people think it's cool to diss a new technology with x, y and z reasons? It has a place for use and it doesn't in another place.
Too bad people has their mind stuck with what they already see on the current web and sort of satisfied with this poorest web interface. Those people who do not wish for new environments and people without mind to come up with something new, are the all posters here?
Hopefully I can make something soon out of this so much dissed technology.
You're probably already infected by your suggestions...
> Don't open e-mail attachments unless it's from sombody you know in real life.
If you're in a company, you know everyone in real life who sends you email, but there's so many people that don't understand about computers, they keep sending you viruses...
So, whoever it is, stop opening it before you scan it...
I don't even have a anti virus software in my PC for over 5 years, not a single virus or trojan or anything but that's because I haven't got not-well-educated colleages sending me virus along side their Word documents.
Recent phishing sites are hard to spot, besides it would be impossible to tell once the DNS server you use is under someoneelse's control than the operator that's supposed to maintain it. Also some no one will remember every secure site's obscure domain name that they visit as well, making it hard to tell. My bank's internet domain is www.mufj.jp... I'm supposed to differetiate that from www.mufj.co.jp (co.jp usually comes for a business company's domain) if there's such a thing on a phisher's mail that comes in to me, or hell I won't realize if I'm on www.mfuj.jp, if there's such a thing.
I'm not sure, if it's better but why aren't there OS for specfic purposes?
They all seem to be able to do this, that, those, whatever a casual user can think of. When it comes to OS, it is very different if it's used on a server or on a desktop.
On a server, you don't need to see a CD icon pop out on screen when you insert a CD, hell, you never insert a CD when the server is running.
But on server, you don't say, 'damn, my mail server crashed again, let me relaunch', while maybe 1 mail application might just crash once every week on desktop.
Besides, being a little unstable at the cost of getting the greatest and nifiest feature on a desktop OS won't hurt, because a crash won't cost you a money, unless you lose a big document, you somehow haven't saved for the last hours are left open at the crash. But on a server, a crash costs. You do have redundancy but if the OS crash like an ass, you need to spend more money so even some of them go down at same time, the whole operation won't go down.
I really want an OS that is only usable for a server, but shit solid with no GUI desktop that takes minimal CPU/Memory at the most efficient way to handle incoming requests, plus less code leads to more secured code naturally.
For desktop OS, there's plenty already... Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD or even OpenBSD for that matter. Be buggy and nifty all they want with desktop OS, but for server, please make us something what it's supposed to do best.
Just adding GUI code would triple or even more the amount of code needed to run a GUI-less terminal...
I'm not a kernel hacker so, I'm just whining without doing much, but you get the point.
I'm keep saying this but it's so funny that these people when it comes to Apple, says 'fixes whopping 43 bugs' lol. When it comes to MS, they go like 'omfg 43 bugs I was living with, geez is MS selling such a trash?'
Keep going, because it just sounds totally funny. Not that I blame Apple for fixing bugs, but they do ship quite a buggy software in the first place, but people never tend to pick on Apple anyway.
After using vim for 2 years and such, usually only for editing configuration files but not much coding, I still never really like it the way it is.
There are just way too many shortcuts you need to remember to make it of any use, if you don't, then vim just looks like a just plain painful editor. And ever since I have been editing various source codes on Windows with mouse and keyboard with about only 10 shortcuts to remember to get the full out of a text editor, I can never really appreciate whatever is good about vim. Sure you may not have to move your hand from the same position, but going back and forth the insert mode and command mode with mind keep boggling to think what I had to press to just delete a few part of a line, it's just never ever been any productive to me in the years...
And in the end, I feel like vim are for people who don't really use mouse as an external input for editing source codes. And I never feel using mouse on a text editor is slowing me down or clumsy.
Is it the generation of people who has been the keyboard guy in the past and recent new comers are all starting to appreciate the use of mouse over 50 keyboard shortcut you have to remember to move the cursor?
Nice and lucky that your desktop Linux runs fine for you, and in that sense, kernal may be JUST fine.
But if you look at various hardwares running servers in a 24/7 cycle, there seems to be many problems. I for one was the lucky guy not to have servers die every so often, but in the end, if these things are voiced and is true, it is not fine.
Your opinion was just for the desktop, but unluckily Linux kernel is used on both desktops and servers, which already sounds like a bad idea.
You may be mistaking or not, but open sourcing a product doesn't mean that Sun is giving away the control of the software to random bunch of people around the world. Open sourcing just gives people to give a look at it, maybe make a few patches and submit those. Even if Sun opens it up, it's up to the Sun to take the patch or not, unless they take that pride you said about Java off from it themselves.
Instead, opening it would just give Sun a good mailing list with patches submited which they don't bother to write or have no time to write but might come in handy to incorporate.
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Whoever is going to use Debian for desktop can just stand back for a moment. Please go Ubuntu or something else or the testing releases.
Debian should have been the rock solid stable distro that can sit in a server with least maintenance to do against other distro who often break things, update configuration file structure suddenly and change the behaviour of an application than put only security patches back ported.
Sure, getting 2.6 kernel makes many SATA and whatnot to work, but who was making the release cycle? Why did 3.1 take so long and why is 4.0 coming out so soon with massive changes?
I'm starting to doubt Debian would keep up being the most stable solid for use with servers distro.
I mean, a serious network server doesn't need any X for sake, which means all Fedora and whatnot are just out of my way, when it comes to using them as real serving purposes. Now what should I use when Debian starts to be Ubuntu catch up distro? I would go back to some BSD sacrificing performance for the sake of better security model and less maintenance cost.
ok, for people like you who need money out of web, please keep getting the money.
for people who do it for fun/hobby and people in the working groups can start thinking a better way, so stop telling your need for money are in the way of web development. Webs aren't just for the corporates.
Your second sentence is the reason for your first sentence as it seems.
when a windowed mode of FreeNX is just as fast as running natively...it quite is the choice than using a 'we-barely-ported-now' thing.
if you install it, you see it's actually the gray theme not just the screenshot...
too bad they tried to give bad impression to some average people to put them away fast.
too bad they came up with a 5 years old GTK 1 toolkit for some bizzare reason.
but on linux, they do look fancy enough... if u do give a search on google image with 'evolution linux'
but then again, someone pointed out the features aren't good enough to replace outlook anyway...
so everybody needs to sit tight a few more years till this gets back on news again.
like these...
http://www.tuxs.org/evolution.png
http://www.tectonic.co.za/graphics/evolution.png
rest...
Wow geez... why do they even use GTK 1 for this?
This GUI is GTK, which is used by GIMP and GAIM and other cross platform applications, but they all got GTK 2, which does blend in Windows theme decent enough.
But this... is like Linux before year 2000. Ugly gray theme... I hope they just released to show off that it actually now runs on Windows...
Maybe wait a few years to get this actually start to get usable.
Btw in Linux, Evolution has a GTK 2 GUI, which is the whole GNOME desktop environment GTK that matches with any other applications, so at least on Linux it does look nice.
foss is about being loud and exagerating thinking they're the purist and the future and all...
i do appreciate the effort of the applications getting made and distributed for free and i do use them often as well.
but the way they claim their software is nothing far from any companies trying to make big advertisements...only it probably doesn't even do what's said well enough.
but forget the price if they fix those issues.
I think it's news because for once, it's a chance to switch the main OS for daily use. You can just buy a Mac and be done with it, but many people still need some specific apps on Windows keeping them under Windows for the past decade and on.
If this can run Windows apps fine (non 3D ones) then it's about time quite a number of people can try to make a switch off of an OS that they were stuck for a decade.
And don't start with Linux which is an immature desktop OS.
Wow, what do you guys eat to get that high cpu cycles for an machine?
Just erase any unnecessary softwares out... seriously it's the best way to make your Windows run stable and fast.
I simply get 0% cpu cycle on my WinXP watching task manager's graph drawing a horizontal line at the bottom with about 300MB of unused RAM on a 512MB ram machine.
It's not the Windows... it's you that's abbusing the system resource.
You just said customer don't care about verisign and whatnot but at start saying take Verisign for being famous...
Why don't you just take the cheaper deal?
Or I still even think customer don't care to click 1 extra step for accepting some verification screen if the web tells you to click and it's safe and the price fits their demand... Why make cost on certificate? Not that they are going to put in a great frame and mail it to you.
Intel AMD whatnot surely made good progress on the hardware, but who got the interest to buy those or the profit for the manufacturer to go further if it wasn't for the affordable OS that Gates put around the world? In that sense, it was the Gates that did it, and who knows if someone else might have done if it wasn't for Gates, but still, he did it.
Buy a NAS.
It's got all the file sharing protocols installed from smb, cifs, afp, ftp, nfs with decent storage size up to 1TB and just let Windows mount the share in a public folder, everyone in the network can see it.
Do people think it's cool to diss a new technology with x, y and z reasons?
It has a place for use and it doesn't in another place.
Too bad people has their mind stuck with what they already see on the current web and sort of satisfied with this poorest web interface.
Those people who do not wish for new environments and people without mind to come up with something new, are the all posters here?
Hopefully I can make something soon out of this so much dissed technology.
I agree. It's quite a waste to trash the rest, when there's plenty good designs to choose from.
You're probably already infected by your suggestions...
> Don't open e-mail attachments unless it's from sombody you know in real life.
If you're in a company, you know everyone in real life who sends you email, but there's so many people that don't understand about computers, they keep sending you viruses...
So, whoever it is, stop opening it before you scan it...
I don't even have a anti virus software in my PC for over 5 years, not a single virus or trojan or anything but that's because I haven't got not-well-educated colleages sending me virus along side their Word documents.
Recent phishing sites are hard to spot, besides it would be impossible to tell once the DNS server you use is under someoneelse's control than the operator that's supposed to maintain it. Also some no one will remember every secure site's obscure domain name that they visit as well, making it hard to tell. My bank's internet domain is www.mufj.jp... I'm supposed to differetiate that from www.mufj.co.jp (co.jp usually comes for a business company's domain) if there's such a thing on a phisher's mail that comes in to me, or hell I won't realize if I'm on www.mfuj.jp, if there's such a thing.
I'm not sure, if it's better but why aren't there OS for specfic purposes?
They all seem to be able to do this, that, those, whatever a casual user can think of.
When it comes to OS, it is very different if it's used on a server or on a desktop.
On a server, you don't need to see a CD icon pop out on screen when you insert a CD, hell, you never insert a CD when the server is running.
But on server, you don't say, 'damn, my mail server crashed again, let me relaunch', while maybe 1 mail application might just crash once every week on desktop.
Besides, being a little unstable at the cost of getting the greatest and nifiest feature on a desktop OS won't hurt, because a crash won't cost you a money, unless you lose a big document, you somehow haven't saved for the last hours are left open at the crash. But on a server, a crash costs. You do have redundancy but if the OS crash like an ass, you need to spend more money so even some of them go down at same time, the whole operation won't go down.
I really want an OS that is only usable for a server, but shit solid with no GUI desktop that takes minimal CPU/Memory at the most efficient way to handle incoming requests, plus less code leads to more secured code naturally.
For desktop OS, there's plenty already... Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD or even OpenBSD for that matter. Be buggy and nifty all they want with desktop OS, but for server, please make us something what it's supposed to do best.
Just adding GUI code would triple or even more the amount of code needed to run a GUI-less terminal...
I'm not a kernel hacker so, I'm just whining without doing much, but you get the point.
I'm keep saying this but it's so funny that these people when it comes to Apple, says 'fixes whopping 43 bugs' lol. When it comes to MS, they go like 'omfg 43 bugs I was living with, geez is MS selling such a trash?'
Keep going, because it just sounds totally funny.
Not that I blame Apple for fixing bugs, but they do ship quite a buggy software in the first place, but people never tend to pick on Apple anyway.
After using vim for 2 years and such, usually only for editing configuration files but not much coding, I still never really like it the way it is.
There are just way too many shortcuts you need to remember to make it of any use, if you don't, then vim just looks like a just plain painful editor. And ever since I have been editing various source codes on Windows with mouse and keyboard with about only 10 shortcuts to remember to get the full out of a text editor, I can never really appreciate whatever is good about vim. Sure you may not have to move your hand from the same position, but going back and forth the insert mode and command mode with mind keep boggling to think what I had to press to just delete a few part of a line, it's just never ever been any productive to me in the years...
And in the end, I feel like vim are for people who don't really use mouse as an external input for editing source codes. And I never feel using mouse on a text editor is slowing me down or clumsy.
Is it the generation of people who has been the keyboard guy in the past and recent new comers are all starting to appreciate the use of mouse over 50 keyboard shortcut you have to remember to move the cursor?
Still wrong to me after 2 years, what's up with that?
Nice and lucky that your desktop Linux runs fine for you, and in that sense, kernal may be JUST fine.
But if you look at various hardwares running servers in a 24/7 cycle, there seems to be many problems.
I for one was the lucky guy not to have servers die every so often, but in the end, if these things are voiced and is true, it is not fine.
Your opinion was just for the desktop, but unluckily Linux kernel is used on both desktops and servers, which already sounds like a bad idea.
>open sourcing Java would possibly destroy it
You may be mistaking or not, but open sourcing a product doesn't mean that Sun is giving away the control of the software to random bunch of people around the world. Open sourcing just gives people to give a look at it, maybe make a few patches and submit those. Even if Sun opens it up, it's up to the Sun to take the patch or not, unless they take that pride you said about Java off from it themselves.
Instead, opening it would just give Sun a good mailing list with patches submited which they don't bother to write or have no time to write but might come in handy to incorporate.