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People Suck at Spotting Phishing

JohnGrahamCumming writes "Initial results at SpamOrHam.org show that people don't fare well when trying to spot spams and phishes. This blog entry shows some actual spams and phishes that people fell for, as well as genuine messages that they think are spam." The thing about these s[cp]ams is that they must work sometimes. When I see the messages, I can't fathom 'how'.

317 comments

  1. So... idiots get taken for their money? by KIFulgore · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At what point in history was this not a problem? Can't say I'm surprised...

    --
    - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
    1. Re:So... idiots get taken for their money? by SupremeTaco · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Problem is, people often mistake unwanted email for unsolicited email. I don't want to hear from Travelocity every week, with their weekly specials. It's unwanted, but I can cancel their letter if it gets irritating enough. The V14Gr4 ads, are not easily (or at all) cancellable. When you blend the two types of emails, people do tend to misclassify them.

      --
      You have a constitutionally protected right to be wrong, and I the right to ignore you.
    2. Re:So... idiots get taken for their money? by KIFulgore · · Score: 3, Informative

      That is true, I get more "unwanted" emails than "unsolicited" (though I always look forward to daily /. updates). I do feel bad for people that think they can just take their PC home, plug it in, and start using it like a toaster or washing machine. My parents repeatedly ask me if there's a program I can install, or a filter I can set up, to "get rid of all the spam." First off, I'm sure I'd be a billionaire if I could do that. Secondly, it's tough to make people (especially parents) understand there's nothing "magic" about a spam message that marks it as such. It's just another dishonest and/or annoying scam artists, the likes of which you run into every day. Hard for people to keep in mind there's other people at the end of that inter-web wire... not all of them friendly.

      --
      - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.
    3. Re:So... idiots get taken for their money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has nothing to do with they are idiots but more that they do not know the Internet or why it would be a fake e-mail in the first place. If someone knocked on your door and in a cable-service uniform with badge attached. Then how would you really know if he knocked on your door for a real reason or if it was just someone who wanted to have a look in your home? (Yes, I know you normally call them first - But just an example)

      People aren't all idiots. Just un-educated (like my English - Sorry :) )

    4. Re:So... idiots get taken for their money? by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't want to hear from Travelocity every week

      Use SpamGourmet, url in my url field above.

      With spamgourmet, you can create a new valid email on the fly in the format of:

      newAccountName.X.myUserID@spamgourmet.com

      At any time, newAccountName can be used. So travelocity can be use, or travel. or t, or tv, or whatever.

      X is the number of mails you want to receive to that email. You can increase or decrease X if need be. 5 is usually sufficient for an online purchase.

      myUserID is, well my userID that I use to login to the system.

      Everything after @ should be self explanatory.

      So, no Amazon, I will not see your deal of the week, nor will I get bothered by all of the people you sell my address to.

      Also, spamgourmet lets you see how many emails have been eaten by each of your aliases. The leaders for eaten email are 1) a mortgage scam site I gave false info to. Just curious how much of a scam it was. 2) NyTimes registration. I now use the anonymous logins that you can find on the net. 3) http://www.mercola.com/ This is a health site, and boy they love to spam you.

      I highly recommend the service. It really works well, and will keep your email much more uncluttered.

    5. Re:So... idiots get taken for their money? by TitsNbeer · · Score: 0

      If you w@nt to st0P phishing please click here and provide you routing# and bank acct# for me to short penis have to mom nigeria.


      random text, for words no meaning go here for you 2 not read, poopy tits shitty face have dellusional gramar.

    6. Re:So... idiots get taken for their money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and here I thought people just sucked in general. I must be behind the times...

    7. Re:So... idiots get taken for their money? by RLiegh · · Score: 1

      >>I don't want to hear from Travelocity every week

      >Use SpamGourmet,[tl;dr snipped]

      That's way too complicated. Particularly since you can just hit the 'unsubscribe' link.

    8. Re:So... idiots get taken for their money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unwanted and unsolicited email IS SPAM, period. only mail from those whom I have given my email address to individualy and specificly have any right to email me. ALL else is spam and is deleted . for sights that "require" an email addr use a bogus yahoo acct if they verify, if they dont floydvoid@sheepsh*t.com works.

    9. Re:So... idiots get taken for their money? by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      ANY email trying to get you to buy shit is spam. If you requested it, it's just requested spam.

  2. This really shouldn't be a surprise by DaHat · · Score: 1, Insightful

    While it would be nice if there was a test or three that a person was required to take in order to do anything online... the fact that anyone is able to buy a PC and plug it into the internet means that there are a lot of... uninformed people out there.

    It's the same group that replies to spam messages asking to be removed, purchase from spammers and leaves their PC's connected 24/7 without spending anytime to patch it.

    So long as these people exist, nothing should be a surprise as to the effectiveness of phishing and other such areas.

    1. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by maxwell+demon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ah, and by the way, there are many people falling for fraud on the front door. We really shouldn't allow people to open the front door if they have not passed a test or three. The fact that anyone is able to open his front door means that there are a lot of ... uninformed people out there.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Interesting
      While it would be nice if there was a test or three that a person was required to take in order to do anything online... the fact that anyone is able to buy a PC and plug it into the internet means that there are a lot of... uninformed people out there.

      That might be a little harsh. We're seeing increasingly sophisticated phishing stuff -- right down to building a look-alike site of the bank which they are pretending to be.

      I think it's getting increasingly difficult for even people who know what they're looking for to spot.

      Yes, people need to learn the basics of how to spot and avoid spam and phishing. But, the increasing sophistication of the bad guys makes it a difficult thing to always identify.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While it would be nice if there was a test or three that a person was required to take in order to do anything online... the fact that anyone is able to buy a PC and plug it into the internet means that there are a lot of... uninformed people out there.

      Well if the big telcos have their way, the only way you'll be a content provider on the internet is if i you pay them big bucks!

      Rich companies never mislead customers, so nothing can go wrong!

    4. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by NoTheory · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I think a lot of people are being unfair. With instructions like this on SpamOrHam:
      Please read the message below, enter the verification code in the box (if asked) and then click one of the three buttons. If you think the message is a spam click This is Spam, if you think it's a genuine message click This is Ham, and if you are not sure click I'm not sure. You are seeing the message as displayed in Microsoft Outlook and the raw message as it is seen by your email program. In the raw message, first the headers are shown (with From, To and Subject highlighted in bold) and then the body of the message follows colored blue.
      I don't see how you could possibly think that the results of such a website could be meaningful. Spam filtering is a contextual process. This site cripples the critical component that allows humans to behave differently from naive filters, i.e. judgement based on memory. The claim being made here is that humans can't identify other people's spam (and this makes sense, how can you tell if you're shown a random email whether it's unsolicited or not? the only way you can is by knowing whether the recipient had been signed up for a mailing list or not!). You should NOT conclude, based on that fact, that humans are bad at identifying their own spam.
      --
      There are lives at stake here!
    5. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the same group that replies to spam messages asking to be removed

      My father (older gentleman in his 60s) used to do this a lot. He eventually figured out that it is not going to work and he thought he was being clever by creating a junk email account and cussing them out. Little did he know that his IP was of course being sent in the header information and so now his primary account has more spam than ever. The moral of the story is to never reply to spam. Even if you think you are being clever by spamming them back or cussing them out. Simply let the spam filters do their job.

    6. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      We're seeing increasingly sophisticated phishing stuff -- right down to building a look-alike site of the bank which they are pretending to be.

      Many times, they let the bank serve the images for them. Saves the bandwidth on their stolen or owned box, and looks more legit.

      A universal precaution I tell people.

      1) don't use HTML email. This was a mistake from day one. Text is fine. HTML belongs on the web.

      2) Never, ever, ever, click on an url in a mail, even if its text.

      If your bank is saying that your account is blocked or whatever. Just type the bank name into google, and click on the top link and log in.

      Its also not safe to type a URL because of typosquaters, but I would guess they would be shut down fairly quickly, but I don't trust my typing, and neither should you.

    7. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's the same group that replies to spam messages asking to be removed"

      My father (older gentleman in his 60s) used to do this a lot. He eventually figured out that it is not going to work and he thought he was being clever by creating a junk email account and cussing them out. Little did he know that his IP was of course being sent in the header information and so now his primary account has more spam than ever. The moral of the story is to never reply to spam. Even if you think you are being clever by spamming them back or cussing them out. Simply let the spam filters do their job.

      So you're proposing that the spammers took the time to 1. Read/notice his cuss-out replies, 2. Search through their giant database of email addresses where they for some reason store the IP address associated with each email address, 3. Match the IP used with the junk account to the IP used with his primary account, 4. Unleash a hellstorm of spam upon it?

    8. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If your bank is saying that your account is blocked or whatever. Just type the bank name into google, and click on the top link and log in.

      No. Go through your paper work to find their phone number and call them. Or else visit a branch.

    9. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      I don't trust my typing, and neither should you.
       
      Wouldn't you just be better off telling people to stay away from that scary internet altogether?

    10. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't trust search engine results. That's ridiculous all together too. Get your bank statement out, find their URL on it, make sure you type it in correctly and then BOOKMARK IT.

    11. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by imaginieus · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't trust your bank statement either. How do you know that your mailman didnt change the url on your statement? The only safe way to get your bank's url is to drive to your nearest bank and ask the manager.

    12. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by geoffspear · · Score: 3, Funny
      How do you know the phisher didn't get a job managing your local branch, or just open an entire fake branch?

      To really be safe, I always call the FDIC before each online transaction to make sure the "bank" I've been dealing with for years even exists.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    13. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Caffeinated+Geek · · Score: 1

      In JGC's defense I have gone through 250 or so of these and most are pretty obvious. There is a button for I don't know so if something looks questionable that's the button to hit.

      For mailing lists. I'm in a good deposition to identify false positives in the corpus they have. The two FPs I have identified are Southwest's mailing list and Travelocity. These two mailing lists do often look spammy to automated filters but I get complaints when a filter blocks one. Which no longer happens thanks to tuning.

      So yes a small part of the messages may be border line but I think that most stuff is pretty obviously whether I'm looking at my e-mail or some random strangers. I do think JGC will probably see more people identifying things incorrectly as spam that were really ham. Or at least that is my experience with my users when they are going through their own personal e-mail.

    14. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have the number for the real FDIC? Because last time I tried calling them, I got stung by the fake FDIC.

    15. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by plover · · Score: 1
      And I'm the opposite. I saw a giant blob of advertising, with some line claiming to be "you are receiving this because you are subscribed to blah-blah.com's mailing list." Looked like spam to me, but the filters thought otherwise.

      Sure, the ci-al'is messages are "classic" spam, but a lot of the mailing list crap is just as spammy. I don't spend a lot of time distingsuishing between the various sources of advertising. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm "right". A message containing an unreadable buttload of advertising text is spam, whether asked-for or not.

      One final complaint, and that's about outlook/exchange: why the hell doesn't it treat "internally" sourced messages differently than "external"? If I worked at X-Corp, and got an exchange message from another X-Corp employee, why are the filters even looking at these messages (other than to build up a "valid email corpus"?) If a message from randomname@x-corp.com came in through the external SMTP gateway, sure, it's probably forged and/or spam. As a matter of fact, it's one of the most obvious indicators of spam -- so why doesn't Exchange understand this and take advantage of this?

      --
      John
    16. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're proposing that the spammers took the time to 1. Read/notice his cuss-out replies, 2. Search through their giant database of email addresses where they for some reason store the IP address associated with each email address, 3. Match the IP used with the junk account to the IP used with his primary account, 4. Unleash a hellstorm of spam upon it?

      1. Any spammer is going to read a reply to their message, unless the message redirects them to another website for more information. If not, why spam in the first place?

      2, 3, 4 - if the reply the spammers got angered them, then why not? It's not like these are great guys to begin with.

    17. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 1

      Email isn't like opening a front door. It's more like opening a door on an international cruise ship. There could be any friend, or any huckster from around the world right down the hall...

    18. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by StormReaver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "That might be a little harsh. We're seeing increasingly sophisticated phishing stuff -- right down to building a look-alike site of the bank which they are pretending to be."

      There is absolutely nothing sophisticated about phishing. It is rudimentary at best, and 100% avoidable.

      1) If you get business-looking email from someone you don't have an existing business relationship with, it's not legitimate.

      2) If you get email with a link to a site you have a business relation with, then type in the URL from the paperwork you got when that business relationship originated; or create a bookmark with the URL manually entered, and use that bookmark to go to the site (all bets are off, though, if you're using Microsoft Internet Explorer). This is especially crucial for banking.

      3) If in doubt, use the contact information on the original business paperwork to discuss business.

      That's it. You are now phishing free. The sharp-eyed among you may have recognized that these steps are no different than those used for postal mail. These types of scams have been in operation since the dawn of commerce. The only thing that has changed is the delivery mechanism.

      I am astonished that people abandon their common sense at the modem (this isn't aimed at the poster. It's just a general observation made at a convenient moment).

    19. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I am astonished that people abandon their common sense at the modem (this isn't aimed at the poster. It's just a general observation made at a convenient moment).

      I don't think its people abandoning their common sense as you say.

      I think that if someone forged a letter which appeared to be from the actual bank you deal with, sent it to you in what appears to be their stationary and envelopes, and used a large amount of legitimate information to indicate that a new department needs to contact you and gave you a corresponding 800 number to call --- you could well fall for it. That's not far from the sophistication being shown nowadays by phishers.

      Since its not uncommon for a single entity to use a bunch of annoying domains and email addresses (my ISP/cable company has sent me their marketing crap from a completely innumerable number of e-mail addresses and marketing-driven domains), it's completely possible to get swindled by these.

      Yes, for the highly paranoid and tech savvy, we're probably pretty unlikely to fall for this. But, in general, I see a lot of evidence that the level of sophistication behind this is growing -- to the point that even those of s who are tech savvy and paranoid might be hard-pressed to be really sure.

      In case you haven't noticed, businesses seem to create new domains for promotional purposes/customer contact all of the time. I know because I keep updating the spam filters for the shite my cable company/ISP sends to me that I don't want to see. The e-mail and or domain is always a permutation of the company name and why they're bugging me. But, it's purely the marketing weenies doing this on behalf of legitimate companies that make this more difficult.

      I figure if I can't possibly write enough spam filters to always block them out, lots of people might take slight variances in stride -- because companies make these sorts of changes all the bloody time, thereby conditioning users to expect it to happen. Thereby invalidating much of the advice for avoiding phishing.
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    20. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by srmalloy · · Score: 2, Informative
      While it would be nice if there was a test or three that a person was required to take in order to do anything online... the fact that anyone is able to buy a PC and plug it into the internet means that there are a lot of... uninformed people out there.

      There used to be a test; back before connecting to the Internet was a matter of plugging the cable from your cablemodem into the back of your computer and clicking 'OK' on all the prompts, you actually had to have enough technical savvy to be able to set up your own TCP/IP stack; even for basic dialup shell access (pre-GUI), you needed to be able to figure out Unix command-line functions. This meant that the people who were posting to the newsgroups were almost always people who had exhibited a minimum level of technical skill. The exceptions were freshmen at college getting access to the Net through their institution's terminal farms, and who could readily be identified by the wave of "Greetings. My name is David Rhodes..." pyramid-scheme postings that heralded the start of each semester and trickled off as they had a little common sense mailbombed into them (if only 0.1% of the readers of a newsgroup emailed someone with an explanation of why it's a pyramid scheme, it still floods their mailboxes).

      However, as time went on, the various online services (Delphi, GEnie, et al.) began to offer access to the Net as another feature of their service, with their install software being automated, so if you could stick an AOL floppy into your computer, you could get Net access. And with each new online service that added Net access to their services, you saw a flood of people being exposed to the chain letters and pyramid schemes that had maintained a hand-to-mouth existence on the twice-yearly crop of gullible freshmen -- and there was a steady stream of fresh meat arriving as more people subscribed. With the massive expansion of potential victims, it became a lot more profitable to run scams, and the 'market' boomed, with increased automation making it just as easy to spam the world with 'opportunities' as it was to filter newsgroup postings to find accounts that hadn't posted before and spam them directly.

    21. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Oliver+Defacszio · · Score: 1

      When was the last time you saw a piece of junkmail that asked for an e-mail response? They all try to send you to an embarrassingly shitty web site of some kind. I'd be stunned if 1% of all spam features an e-mail address that the spammer could check even if he so desired.

      --

      -
      Inventor of the term 'pardon my French'.
    22. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Firehed · · Score: 1
      Its also not safe to type a URL because of typosquaters, but I would guess they would be shut down fairly quickly, but I don't trust my typing, and neither should you.
      Well, proofreading goes a long way to solve this one. I don't always trust my typing, but I trust my reading. To be completely honest, my precautions are pretty minimal (in effect, common sense and double-checking stuff), and my bank account is as full as it should be.
      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    23. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I just called the operator. Or at least I think it was the operator...

    24. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by MLease · · Score: 1
      1. Any spammer is going to read a reply to their message, unless the message redirects them to another website for more information. If not, why spam in the first place?

      No. You know how I know this? Because my subdomain is currently being spoofed by spammers. I'm getting dozens of "failure notices" daily at addresses like qrcywk@myusername.myemailprovider.com, along with a few complaints from people who think they can convince me (or intimidate me) to stop sending them the spam. The real sender is buried deep in the headers, but because the "from" field contains my subdomain, I'm getting the backwash, not the spammers. The way they get their responses and sell their crap is by getting people to click on the links in the message, not via replies.

      -Mike

      --
      I'm sorry; I don't know what I was thinking!
    25. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by The+Man · · Score: 1
      Thereby invalidating much of the advice for avoiding phishing.

      No, only the bad advice. Here's the good advice:

      1. Email that contains HTML should be deleted upon receipt, regardless of its purported origin.
      2. Text email that did not result proximately from an explicit and intentional request you sent, which contains URLs or offers to sell you anything, should be deleted upon receipt.
      3. Never enter any personal information, especially financial information, into any page that (a) looks suspicious in any way, or (b) was reached via any kind of advertisement, automatically opened window or tab, or window or tab opened from an email (why didn't you follow rule #1, anyway?), or (c) is not secured by a current and valid SSL certificate of which you have verified the chain of trust, or (d) was not reached in a single click from a reputable entity's site whose address you typed by hand.
      4. Use a text-only mailer. Since you're following rule #1 (oh yes you are) you won't need an HTML-capable mailer; therefore, there's no reason not to use a text-only mailer, which will make it much easier to spot spam, fraud, and all types of junk mail.
      5. Do not use Internet Explorer, Outlook, or Outlook Express on any machine with access (direct or proxied) to the Internet. If you must use one or more of these products, do so only if required by your employer, and then only from your employer's machines and only to access the specific locations you are required to access in the course of your employment. Unless applications your employer requires you to use require it, disable ActiveX and JavaScript. Never use Internet Explorer for any other purpose, especially conducting personal business, and do not use Microsoft Windows at all on machines which you own and control.
      6. If you conduct business via the Internet, use per-vendor or per-transaction dead-drop mailboxes. Disable each one once you have completed your transaction and received the items or information you requested. Never provide your personal address to any web site, commercial or otherwise. Never use your real address when filling out any paper form, even if it is "required"; if information you need or want will be sent to the address you provide, use a dead-drop. Otherwise, provide no address or an invalid one.
      7. Never sign up for "free" consumer-oriented crap on the Internet. Most are simply address-harvesting operations that make their profits by selling your address and any other information you provide them. You don't need smileys, screensavers, shareware, virus scanners, "p2p" software, daily or weekly newsletters, or a free online subscription to the New York Times. If for some incomprehensible reason you think you just can't live without these annoyances, for the love of Pete use a dead-drop and disable it immediately. Be especially wary of software that is intended to be executed locally (anything that opens a download window), especially if you are using Windows or the software is provided in binary form. Such software, regardless of whether you provided a real address to obtain it, almost certainly contains worms, trojans (such as so-called "spyware"), or other malware that may damage your data, transmit confidential and personal data - including your email address(es) and financial information - to others without your knowledge or involvement, expose you to risk of legal action against you, and/or cause your computer to violate your service provider's terms of service and/or applicable law.
      8. Use filters to discard unwanted messages automatically. Filters customised for and trained with your message traffic are best, but even basic filtering provided by bulk carriers such as Google and AOL is better than nothing.
      9. Finally, email is an inherently unreliable medium. If you have any doubt whatever about a message, don't read it, and certainly don't act on its contents without verifying them using a known-safe out-of-band medium, such as a telephone number on official letterhead which
    26. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      And at your front door, there couldn't?
      I guess you are one of those who wouldn't get a license to open the front door :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    27. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise by Diag · · Score: 1

      1. Email that contains HTML should be deleted upon receipt, regardless of its purported origin.

      I was shocked (shocked, I tell ya) that the large IT vendor I now work for, who really should know better, encouraged me to use a HTML signature in my emails.

      I opted for plain text myself, but not for security reasons. More because I know how lame it looks when a pretty HTML sig gets translated between Exchange and Notes or another email system.

      Regards,[nbsp][br]
      Diag[br][br]=[&amp21];
      Techo Schleb[nbsp]+[amp][nbsp][br]
      Vendor[nbsp][nbsp][img src=f:\users\my_secure_userid\My Documents\garbage\cool_sig_image.gif][br][nbsp][nb sp]

      Disclaimer - code block is completely made up.

      --
      Serving Suggestion: Defrost
  3. if it's done well, and some are by yagu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've seen more sophisticated phishing examples by far, and some are indistinguishable from what might be the real thing. The distinguishing factor from a genuine missive is the best phishes have links to bogus addresses (sometimes denoted with only an IP address), and the destination site asks for information company's won't ask for from an e-mail.

    One of the best phishes I've seen was sent to me -- it was ostensibly from my phone company, and it described a problem with my on-line bill pay (I don't). The letter was nicely formatted with the colors and icons of my phone company. The link was a giveaway, when I rolled over it, I could see the IP address, not a phone company web-site.

    I researched this a bit more, went to my phone company's web site, and downloaded their graphics. A bit-for-bit comparison of their icons, etc., and the phishers showed them to be identical. (Interestingly, this puts phishers also in the position of being guilty of more crime: copyright violations.)

    Had my suspicions not been raised by the fact I wasn't participating in on-line bill pay and the phish indicated that problem, and had I not seen the IP address by rolling over the link (which I only did because of above suspicion), I easily could have been convinced I was dealing with a real e-mail (NOTE: this was two years ago, before phishing had become real big, and it was my first incident.)

    I can easily believe many, if not most could fall for well crafted phishing expeditions. I would agree with the cited article, those are weak examples unlikely to catch savvy users (though they still could catch the naive, of which there are millions!). (And, I would claim some of the examples really are nothing more than SPAM.)

    1. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Asphalt · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I can easily believe many, if not most could fall for well crafted phishing expeditions. I would agree with the cited article, those are weak examples unlikely to catch savvy users (though they still could catch the naive, of which there are millions!). (And, I would claim some of the examples really are nothing more than SPAM.)

      I agree with you. Some are sophisticated, but the link is ALWAYS a give away. It is either some kind of redirect, an IP address, or a Bogus URL altogether.

      Then again, how many people that use AOL know what an IP address is? 10 ... 20%?

      Fine, they obviously do work.

      But, this is what I don't understand ...

      How do these people avoid getting busted? They have IP addresses that point directly to the fake server. Finding out who owns the servers and where it is should be fairly elementary.

      I mean, Sony/BMG can track down the exact studio apartment in Chicago of someone who downloaded "Ooops, I Did It Again", but we have people conducting massive financial and wire fraud with blatantly displayed IP addresses, and we can't just go an snatch them by the by the head and give them a solid flogging?

      Okay, so many are in another countries. But how many countries DON'T have laws against this?

      Post a threat against the President, and the Secret Service would be at your door with K-Y and rubber gloves in 3 minutes and 21 seconds. Attempt global financial fraud, broadcast your IP, and everything is cool?

      How do these people NOT get busted, and busted hard?

      I don't get it.

    2. Re:if it's done well, and some are by zxnos · · Score: 1

      i have seen the paypal one a few times. i dont have paypal. as a result my rule is to never follow the link in any email. if i think there is something legitimate going on i will manually type in the web address for my credit card (or whoever sent the message) then see if there is some truth to it. seems reasonable to me.

      --
      always mosh clockwise
    3. Re:if it's done well, and some are by DerCed · · Score: 1

      Thank god I only display emails as plain text.

    4. Re:if it's done well, and some are by aussersterne · · Score: 4, Informative
      I used to work inside eBay and saw some of the best-crafted phishes around. The phishers used to use our system to get as many official eBay messages as they could, just to be able to clone each of them and have a phish that was "real" in origin so that they could catch people. We gradually had to eliminate email that led back to the site. Some still presents a problem and is being exploited (i.e. the mail forwarding system that buyers/sellers use to communicate is currently being exploited by phishers).

      One thing you didn't mention that might even get some slashdotters is that the "@" symbol in a URL is used by most browsers in a way (for authentication) that makes it possible to also spoof domains in a phish link. Try going typing this address (into your URL bar and you'll see what I mean:

      http://www.ebay.com@64.236.24.12

      Firefox presents a warning in this case because you're being redirected to a site that doesn't require authentication (CNN.com) yet you've provided authentication information. If the destination site (i.e. phish destination) had been crafted to require authentication and accept "www.ebay.com" as valid data, you'd get no warning.

      Some of these URLs+site combinations had *very* well-crafted URLs using tricks like this that would almost certainly fool most users who had been told "don't click on a link unless it says it's going to 'ebay.com' in the status bar."

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    5. Re:if it's done well, and some are by FireFury03 · · Score: 5, Informative

      How do these people avoid getting busted? They have IP addresses that point directly to the fake server. Finding out who owns the servers and where it is should be fairly elementary.

      Because the person who owns the server is almost always some home user who plugged their Windows box directly into the internet. In the same way as compromised boxes are used to send spam, perform DDoS attacks, etc they are also used to run web servers for phishers.

      How do these people NOT get busted, and busted hard?

      As much as I like the idea of throwing people in jail who have too little clue to secure their machines, I'm afraid I don't think it'll do a lot to stop the phishers.

    6. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Gospodin · · Score: 1

      The banks are somewhat complicit in this, I think, by using needlessly complicated URLs. I use Bank of America, for example, which I can access online at http://www.bankofamerica.com./ I click on Sign In, which redirects me to https://sitekey.bankofamerica.com/sas/signonSetup. do. After signing in, I'm redirected to https://onlineeast2.bankofamerica.com/gobbledygook /.

      This is an easy one, especially for us geeks, because we know how to read a URL. But those URLs look like three completely different sites to the average user. In some cases, they actually ARE different sites, such as when a bank uses a separate company to provide some service.

      I recognize that Bank of America is using the onlineeast2 subdomain instead of www in order to do load balancing, but aren't there other ways? Or, if not, couldn't they use www-1, www-2, etc., so the URL at least looks like www.bankofamerica.com?

      --
      ...following the principles of Heisenburger's Uncertain Cat...
    7. Re:if it's done well, and some are by HunterZ · · Score: 5, Funny

      [i]Windoz lusers most likely, that sh*t just promotes stupidity.

      *BSD 4 lyfe![/i]

      Sounds like BSD doesn't help much in that department either.

      --
      Arguing about vi versus Emacs is like arguing whether it's better to make fire by rubbing sticks or banging rocks.
    8. Re:if it's done well, and some are by fishbot · · Score: 4, Informative

      Some of these URLs+site combinations had *very* well-crafted URLs using tricks like this that would almost certainly fool most users who had been told "don't click on a link unless it says it's going to 'ebay.com' in the status bar."

      That's why this is flawed advice, and it's why I don't give it. Instead, I tell people that they should NEVER click the link, even if it looks genuine. Instead, they should open their browser, type in the address or click their bookmark, and log in to their account.

      This will prove most scams immediately (e.g. if you can log in, then your account has obviously NOT been suspended ...), and the ones it doesn't will be easy to verify. If there is no warning that matches the email and you are still not convinced, phone them up or use the online support tools directly.

      Basically, the rule is the same as for unsolicited phone calls: always be the one to initiate the communication. If you phone your bank using the number on your statement, then you've got through to the right place. If you type the URL on your statement into the address bar, you've got to the right place. If you let somebody else initiate the communication, either by phoning you, sending email, fax, or whatever, and you trust them not to lie, then you're as good as caught already.

    9. Re:if it's done well, and some are by slashflood · · Score: 1

      True.

      Once, my girlfriend was sitting in front of her computer, fiddling with a bank statement, because she received an email from "our bank", stating that she should go to their online banking service. Allegedly, she should check a payment. To do so, she had to enter the account number and the PIN.

      Fortunately, I saw her and could prevent her to click the submit button. I told her, that there is no bank in the world, asking customers to go online and enter those data. She'll never do that again.

      Since this incident, I realized the phishing problem.

    10. Re:if it's done well, and some are by flooey · · Score: 1

      Okay, so many are in another countries. But how many countries DON'T have laws against this?

      It's not a question necessarily of whether there's a law against it. If a United States law enforcement agency called up Bulgaria and said "Hey, there's a guy running a phishing expedition from your country, send the cops out to their house!", what are they chances they'd do anything? In the whole scheme of things, they've got much larger fish to fry than someone duping Americans into giving away their credit card numbers.

    11. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Asphalt · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Because the person who owns the server is almost always some home user who plugged their Windows box directly into the internet. In the same way as compromised boxes are used to send spam, perform DDoS attacks, etc they are also used to run web servers for phishers.

      Agreed. But wouldn't the ISP of the innocent user have some kind of record of where the fraud messages are being sent?

      Earthlink (or whatever the ISP was) was able to tell the DC Police the exact locations that Chandra Levy pulled up on Mapquest.

      Most likely the home user is plugged into a mainstream ISP ... and almost all do some kind of logging. I have a hard to believe that they couldn't figure it out to some degree. Or maybe the just sends email through 5 chained mixmaster remailers. I don't know.

      These phishers have to be pretty darn good to get away without leaving any trace whatsoever.

      Given their technical prowess, you'd think they could spell better.

      At least 3/4ths of my phishing messages contain blatant typos or grammatical errors.

      "Please to update your accont with Citibank". I mean ... come on.

    12. Re:if it's done well, and some are by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've seen about two or three that were good.

      The best one yet is where the target link went to a website, and through some javascript, put an image over the URL bar! The image had the right URL in it, and if you moved the window around, the image moved too (though, because it was javascript, the image movement lagged a bit, so depending on how fast you moved the window, you could see the real URL, then the image jumped over it). The reason I spotted it? the image was off by several pixels either way - I thought the text was a few pixels too low in the addressbar (and it was too far left - it went over the icon left of the URL bar). (This was in IE. In Mozilla/Firefox, when I could get it to work, the image was in the completely wrong place). That was probably 1 in 1000, though.

      The other smart ones actually do verify the information you give them, too. I suppose for those, signing up with false eBay accounts and using that is good. (Good way to get rid of negative feedback accounts).

      The less-good ones had an image that was clickable. Discovered only because text that isn't normally clickable is.

      The vast majority are very poorly crafted emails, though. Spelling errors, sending more than one to the same email address (If you receive 3 or 4 Paypal or eBay phishes, it kinda gives the whole game away). And they don't hide the URL at all - just plain old non-redirector links. Phishing has reached the realm of the idiots.

      Luckily, eBay and Paypal have several characteristics I've noticed in their legit emails:

      1) If you use a separate email account for eBay and Paypal from your regular email, well, that is clue #1 if you receive an eBay or Paypal email in an account that isn't what you use for eBay and Paypal.
      2) eBay emails will *always* include your eBay username in the email, not the email address. Paypal emails will include your real name as registered. This detail is almost always impossible to get directly unless you've conducted business with the target through eBay or Paypal.
      3) eBay and Paypal use specific From addresses - all eBay item questions do *not* come from aw-confirm (that's only used by the bid confirmation system).
      4) For eBay specifically, if you get a phish for an item, the item description is always included, while phishes just give you the item number (because the item description will tell you "fake" immediately). In addition, all eBay messages appear in the "My eBay" message section. If unsure, log in to eBay and check there.

    13. Re:if it's done well, and some are by alphafoo · · Score: 1

      I'm curious what happens on these phishing sites once someone actually does log in and submits account information. Does the site just link off to the original site, where the user then has to log in again in order to actually change their online bill pay option?

      It seems that even if I got duped into believing that some email written in broken English was from my bank, and even if I went ahead and logged in to the phony site, once I got there I'd see that it wasn't really my bank's site. At that point I could change my account information or cancel my credit card or whatever, and the info the phishers had harvested from me wouldn't be of any use to them.

      So in order for phishing to work, which I assume it does, it seems like we need 3 things from the end user.
      1) Believe the email is authentic
      2) Submit account information to phony site
      3) Remain oblivious to anything being phishy about this site.

      I guess with enough email volume, anything is possible.

    14. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Asphalt · · Score: 1
      In the whole scheme of things, they've got much larger fish to fry than someone duping Americans into giving away their credit card numbers.

      When the banks and large corporations start hurting and eating more and more of this fraudlent activity, I have feeling it will be bumped up a notch or two on the priority scale.

      The only reason it has not reached this level already is because many of the attempts to date have been very inept and amatuer.

      As they get better and more sophisticated, success rates will inevitably go up.

    15. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you. Some are sophisticated, but the link is ALWAYS a give away. It is either some kind of redirect, an IP address, or a Bogus URL altogether.

      This is incorrect. I've seen phishing mails in the past, that linked to domains that were very similar to the original, possibly with only some "1337-speak" thrown in, registered just days ago, and usually with large numbers of NS-entries spread all over the IP-space so as to make the domain more resillient to any of them getting taken down. I think one of them was "P0STBANK.DE" instead of "postbank.de", the bank with the largest numbers of customers in germany.

      With ebay, things are even worse, since ebay themselves are spreading their operation to more domains than just ebay.com or ebay.<countrycode>, instead, there's ebayimaging.com, ebaythis.com and ebaythat.com. As of now, EBAYLOGINS.COM is still available for the first phisher with enough zombies and stolen credit cards at his hand.

    16. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Asphalt · · Score: 4, Interesting
      It seems that even if I got duped into believing that some email written in broken English was from my bank, and even if I went ahead and logged in to the phony site, once I got there I'd see that it wasn't really my bank's site. At that point I could change my account information or cancel my credit card or whatever, and the info the phishers had harvested from me wouldn't be of any use to them.

      I have clicked on several obvious phish emailed specifically to see what happened.

      I would usually enter completely bogus information into it like:

      Usernname: Bunghole
      Password: eatmenowyoubuttmuch

      It would take me to a plain page that simply said "Thank you for verifying your information!" or somethign similar and generic.

      Every now and then it would redirect me to the real site.

      I've never actually gotten into anything that looked like an account site. Once you provide the username/password, they are done with you and the phish ends there.

      Sometimes it is fun to play around with the phishing scams. If everone who knew what they were clicked on them, and provided useless and inaccurate info, Phishing scams would become so overhwhwlmed with usueless information that they just might have to come up with another idea.

      Do your part! Screw with a scammer.

    17. Re:if it's done well, and some are by phlamingo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Do your part! Screw with a scammer.

      This may seem obvious, but I wouldn't play this kind of game with IE. Or from Windows at all, for that matter.

      --
      I had forgotten how much cooler teenagers look when they are smoking. Oh, wait ...
    18. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Bob+4knee · · Score: 1
      agree with you. Some are sophisticated, but the link is ALWAYS a give away. It is either some kind of redirect, an IP address, or a Bogus URL altogether. Then again, how many people that use AOL know what an IP address is? 10 ... 20%?

      And of that percentage, how many know how to parse [not real links, please don't click]

      http://123.45.67.89/goodcompany.com

      or even

      http://evilentity.com/whatsnew/news/pictures/YOU RBANK.COM

      As for using the IP address to track and prosecute, the owner of the IP address is often a victim also, and the trail often leads to places where your laws don't apply.

    19. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Asphalt · · Score: 1
      This may seem obvious, but I wouldn't play this kind of game with IE. Or from Windows at all, for that matter.

      Firefox. Java off. TOR Plugin Enabled.

      I always use this configuration when going to a site that I think is of questionable repute.

      It's slow, but it works.

      And to the following post, I don't think it would breed more phishers. You can only pound a banking site with bad usernames/passwords from the same subnet without someone noticing (I hope). The more junk they receive from knowledgable users, the more time it will take them to accomplish anything devious, and the greater the chance that they will be detected ... again, I hope.

      I try to throw them some bogus info every now and then. It's really all I can do. I am not law enforcement.

    20. Re:if it's done well, and some are by gutnor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For most webusers ( read Mom and Pop ) understanding the structure of a webaddress is completely mad. The first step is to explain why

      www.ebay.com is not the same company as www.ebay.com.checkyouraccount.ru because they have to read the address backward and seriously

      www.ebay.com.checkyouraccount.ru/~level1/level2/ch ecklogin?user=testuser

      becomes really insane !

      The problem is that after you ( painfully ) trained them, you notice that a lot of websites use insane url like that and yet perfectly valid one !

      Example: Hotmail login
      http://login.live.com/login.srf?...
      after several loop through passport.com, ...

      and I also have to train my parents to use whois ???

      And don't forget that I had first to explain what is a 'OS', 'program' and finally what a 'browser' is.

      To result of all the lessons is that my father turned into an Internet paranoid. He is convinced his machine crawled under spywares and that every single website is a phishing attempt.
      And now, when he needs to access his bank account, I need to connect myself from my machine and tell him the result over the phone. The same when he need to buy something. He never uses his machine for anything remotly personal.

      That's real sad.

    21. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. But wouldn't the ISP of the innocent user have some kind of record of where the fraud messages are being sent?

      No, they won't have any logs. The spam/phishing messages go directly from the compromized computer to the victim's mailserver. Any IPS that attempts to log this will have to analyze all outgoing traffic, and none that I know of do that. This would be just plain too expensive.

    22. Re:if it's done well, and some are by greenegg77 · · Score: 1

      Windoz lusers most likely, that sh*t just promotes stupidity.
      *BSD 4 lyfe!

      So can I assume from your post that BSD will make my children forget how to spell? We need to get Congress to act against this evil BSD - someone think about the children(tm)!

      ?
      --
      --- This .sig for sale - $500 OBO.
    23. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      To be honest, I think the only way to be sure of avoiding phishing scams is to never enter credentials into a page you get to from a URL in an e-mail.

      No, really, never. No exceptions. If you can't get to the page from where you'd normally log into that site, call them up, talk to them about it.

    24. Re:if it's done well, and some are by lawpoop · · Score: 1

      "How do these people avoid getting busted? They have IP addresses that point directly to the fake server. Finding out who owns the servers and where it is should be fairly elementary.

      Okay, so many are in another countries. But how many countries DON'T have laws against this?
      "

      Because interpol is not going to get involved over a matter of a few hundred dollars, and the police in Springfield, Ohio are not going to team up with local police in Malaysia. The damage amounts are not worth the expiditure at this point.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    25. Re:if it's done well, and some are by pNutz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Be sure NOT to do this with IE. All phishig sites I have visited were chock full of browser exploits. You will almost always be prompted to install an ActiveX control or just have one pushed through an IE vulnerability for you (many fools are unpatched). McAfee was nice enough to tell me that it stopped IE from running a trojan from the temp folder without even asking me.

      I'd imagine they are doing this with Firefox vulnerabilities as well.

      --
      Death and danger are my various breads and various butters.
    26. Re:if it's done well, and some are by MoxFulder · · Score: 1
      Okay, so many are in another countries. But how many countries DON'T have laws against this?

      Aren't *all* phishes coming from other countries?? I have *never* received a phish that didn't have at least a grammatical or spelling error, or some use of a phrase that sounded stilted or off. As far as I can tell, no one has *ever* written a phish that uses proper English in a style that's suitable for a business communication.

      My advice for how to avoid phishing is: read the complete email!! Does it sound like a professional native English speaker at a bank wrote it? If not, it's phishing. If it *seems* okay so far, *then* start checking the links and things.
    27. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Technician · · Score: 2

      It would take me to a plain page that simply said "Thank you for verifying your information!" or somethign similar and generic.

      Every now and then it would redirect me to the real site.


      I got a Paypal phish like that. They were doing a man in the middle attack. I don't have a Pay Pal account, so I knew it was bogus. The real Paypal site rejected my login. I didn't think to check the IP addresses at that time to see if I still was on a man in the middle link. If I was, they could have automaticaly dumped the invalid login.

      I later sent the e-mail to the real Paypal abuse e-mail and explained I didn't have an account and if one existed using my real e-mail, it was an identy theft crime. I got a nice generic reply from Paypal within 2 days thanking me for reporting it.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    28. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Thaelon · · Score: 1

      I did!

      I got one particularly convincing paypal phish.

      It pissed me off so bad I created a valid-credit-card-number generator and gave the phisher several fake credit card numbers that passed validation.

      Was what I did illegal? Probably not. Would attempting to use those numbers be? Probably. .\_/.

      --

      Question everything

    29. Re:if it's done well, and some are by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      As much as I like the idea of throwing people in jail who have too little clue to secure their machines, I'm afraid I don't think it'll do a lot to stop the phishers.

      Oh yes, it will. It would make people start securing their machines, and seizing the machine might actually provide clues to the real phisher.

      While I'd like to think that anyone falling for a phishing scam deserves what they get, there simply isn't enough awareness of the problem. Obviously, we aren't going to get it through the school system, but maybe making it a crime to have an insanely insecure computer would make people a bit more careful about securing theirs.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    30. Re:if it's done well, and some are by geoffspear · · Score: 1
      The ISP of the innocent user probably isn't in the United States and won't care if your local police department wants to know where the information was sent. (You do report every phishing attempt to the police, right? And they don't tell you to stop wasting their time, right?)

      Personally I'm shocked that phishing isn't investigated using the same forensic techniques used in a high-profile murder case. Shocked.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    31. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      As much as I like the idea of throwing people in jail who have too little clue to secure their machines, I'm afraid I don't think it'll do a lot to stop the phishers.

      If someone steals your car and you don't notice and it's used for a bank robbery, guess where the police will turn up?

      In the same way if your machine is used for a phishing scam expect to have your account terminated with prejudice, until you prove that you weren't involved.

    32. Re:if it's done well, and some are by mpe · · Score: 2

      Basically, the rule is the same as for unsolicited phone calls: always be the one to initiate the communication.

      If someone claiming to be from your bank phones you then you ask them security questions, not the other way around.

    33. Re:if it's done well, and some are by fishbot · · Score: 1

      I've done that. You wouldn't believe how little the operator comprehends your position (actually, you probably would believe it). The exchange goes like this:

      Bank: Hi, I'm calling from RandomBank. Can you confirm that you are MrFishbot by providing your account number and sort code?
      Me: No. First you prove that you are from RandomBank
      Bank: ...
      Bank: um ... but ... who else would I be?
      Me: Goodbye

    34. Re:if it's done well, and some are by filterban · · Score: 1

      You're exactly right. I had an idea to write a program that would spam their server with randomly generating username and password info to either: a) overload their database b) make whatever data they did collect completely useless Distribute the program to a few friends, and voila! Spammers caught. Another potential way to catch them would be for Paypal to create a login, "scriptkiddie123" or something, and send it to the phishing site. As soon as someone logs in using that login, you send their IP to the Feds. Blammo!

      --
      rm -rf /
    35. Re:if it's done well, and some are by tignom · · Score: 2, Funny

      Post a threat against the President, and the Secret Service would be at your door with K-Y and rubber gloves in 3 minutes and 21 seconds.

      It must not have been a very serious threat if they stopped to buy some gloves and K-Y on the way.

    36. Re:if it's done well, and some are by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. But wouldn't the ISP of the innocent user have some kind of record of where the fraud messages are being sent?

      I think you're making some bad assumptions that:
      1. the malware will be communicating with it's owner through email messages
      2. these email messages are going through the ISP's smarthost
      3. The ISP gives a crap

      In reality, the malware is probably talking to the fraudster via IRC or similar - you're going to find it very difficult working out who it's actually talking to. Even if it is using email messages, they almost certainly aren't being sent via the ISP's smarthost (and this is perfectly legitimate too - I certainly don't use my ISP for anything other than an IP connection). So since you've got no clue how it's communicating with the fraudster you're going to have to log and sift through *all* the IP traffic, and that's just not at all feasable.

      Earthlink (or whatever the ISP was) was able to tell the DC Police the exact locations that Chandra Levy pulled up on Mapquest.

      I don't know the details of that case but the user was probably accessing MapQuest via the ISP's proxy, and the ISP knew the address of both the user and MapQuest so filtering the proxy logs is pretty easy then.

      Most likely the home user is plugged into a mainstream ISP ... and almost all do some kind of logging.

      Well, again you're assuming that the ISP is logging the right traffic and has enough information to filter it down to a managable number of log entries. More importantly, you're assuming that the ISP cares, and in my experience they usually don't.

    37. Re:if it's done well, and some are by flooey · · Score: 1

      When the banks and large corporations start hurting and eating more and more of this fraudlent activity, I have feeling it will be bumped up a notch or two on the priority scale.

      I'd say that'd be true only if it's hurting banks that do a lot of business in their country, which the vast majority of American banks don't. Even if Washington Mututal or Bank of America is losing millions of dollars, I doubt Bulgaria, Ukraine, Romania, or other similarly-situated countries would give a lick. Now, if phishers started targetting major banking institutions based in those countries, I would certainly agree. The major problem, though, is there's not a lot of benefit in spend money enforcing laws where their citizens aren't the victims.

    38. Re:if it's done well, and some are by FireFury03 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh yes, it will. It would make people start securing their machines,

      No matter how many people you smack with a clue-by-four there are always more who need smacking. Unless over 99% of people start securing their machines we'll still get phishing - your argument is akin to "if we lock up burglars then noone will get burgled"... read the newspaper to see how well that one worked out. :)

      and seizing the machine might actually provide clues to the real phisher.

      It seems fairly unlikely - the machine will have been compromised from another cracked machine and all the data being returned to the fraudster are probably being bounced across a load of compromised machines and through public communication channels such as IRC. Many of these machines will be spread across the world. Good luck trying to pick up enough of the compromised boxes and get cooperation from the other jurisdictions to get any useful data.

    39. Re:if it's done well, and some are by FireFury03 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If someone steals your car and you don't notice and it's used for a bank robbery, guess where the police will turn up?

      Yes, they'll turn up, ask some questions and then leave you alone - you're not gonna get thrown in jail, even if you left your car unlocked with the keys in the ignition (although the insurance company ain't gonna pay out).

      In the same way if your machine is used for a phishing scam expect to have your account terminated with prejudice, until you prove that you weren't involved.

      You clearly haven't tried reporting abuse to many ISPs - most of them couldn't care less about one of their users running a cracked machine.

    40. Re:if it's done well, and some are by auntninn · · Score: 1

      The latest attacks I've seen include a phone number instead of a URL. The first one I got was very convincing, particularly if you skim emails from banks, etc. It had a 1-888 number to call. It told me my account had some suspicious activity (from a bank that has put me on hold for some of my own online activity) at a time I was traveling. It was about 99% convincing. I went to the bank's site and used *that* tollfree number to confirm it was bogus.

      I then called the 888 number just to see what it was, and it was a very convincing recording asking me to enter my 16-digit credit card number. It sounded very much like my actual bank.

      I've now received at least a dozen of these from supposedly different banks, so it appears to be on the rise.

    41. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that just makes it all the more ridiculous.

      The RIAA can use a dartboard to decide who may have once heard an MP3 downloaded by an acquaintance that drove by with the windows down one day and the police go apeshit to drag out and torture that evil bastard out until they give in or prove their innocence. Yet, when hundreds of thousands of average people are being swindled by fraudsters in clearly deceptive and illegal activity, it's deemed a waste of time?

      Yeah, that about sums up the police in Pennsylvania.

    42. Re:if it's done well, and some are by oni · · Score: 1

      The best one yet is where the target link went to a website, and through some javascript, put an image over the URL bar!

      I call bullshit on that.

    43. Re:if it's done well, and some are by stormpunk · · Score: 1
      Sometimes it is fun to play around with the phishing scams. If everone who knew what they were clicked on them, and provided useless and inaccurate info, Phishing scams would become so overhwhwlmed with usueless information that they just might have to come up with another idea. Do your part! Screw with a scammer.
      Somebody automated this process for us all. Do your part, help the phishers collect information.
    44. Re:if it's done well, and some are by myxiplx · · Score: 1

      What I love is when my bank phones me. They get ever so upset when then phone from a witheld number and find I refuse to give them any personal details until they've proven who they are.

      Bank: "But we need these details to check who you claim to be".
      Me: "Yes, but before I tell you anything I want to know who you are."
      Bank: "We're your bank."
      Me: "Prove it."
      Bank: "But we can't tell you any personal details it's against the data protection act."
      Me: "Arghhh!!!"

      So long as our banks and utility companies insist on behaviour like this phishers are going to have an easy life.

      I look forward to the day I get a phone call from my bank from a number I know, to have them give me a password confirming their identify, and for me to reply with the appropriate counter... It's not that hard, James Bond's been doing it for years. :)

    45. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm curious what happens on these phishing sites once someone actually does log in and submits account information.


      They then have your ebay/paypal/bank login code and can use that to log in themselves. Granted, most banks have some more protection than simple username/password combination, but it can still cause some headaches on your site.

    46. Re:if it's done well, and some are by setirw · · Score: 1

      I agree. There is a since-fixed exploit in IE which allows for the falsification of the address bar, but placing an image over the address bar? Impossible.

      --
      This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
    47. Re:if it's done well, and some are by glindsey · · Score: 1

      I mean, Sony/BMG can track down the exact studio apartment in Chicago of someone who downloaded "Ooops, I Did It Again"

      Oh my God, they've found me!

    48. Re:if it's done well, and some are by x-caiver · · Score: 1
      Some are sophisticated, but the link is ALWAYS a give away. It is either some kind of redirect, an IP address, or a Bogus URL altogether.

      My bank has a two word name so it has a couple of different URLs to get there, making sure htat they cover all their bases for how people might convert the real name in to a domain name. I got a phish a few months back that was nearly perfect, and the URL did -not- give it away, because it was just one more possible (legit) variation.

      For example, if your bank 20th Street Bank and its main URL is 20thstreet.com, but they also purchased twentiethstreet.com Now, just be looking at the URL tell me out of 20thstreetbank.com, 20th-street.com, and 20th-street-bank.com which one the scam site would be at?

      "Oh, just click the link and look at the site and you can tell". Umm, not right off the bat. It is extremely simple to suck a bunch of pages & graphics from a site (or just relative link the graphics, and make links on the homepage go to the correct page on the real site) to make an 99% perfect website.

      Now that many companies use subdomains for their webapps, I use dozens of sites where the 'logon' link takes you to foo.20thstreet.com. Now, ignoring http verse https that many people don't understand, tell me if my bank owns all but one of those domain names is bankapp.20th-street.com going to steal my user ID or not?

      It is not hard for an advanced scam group to trick even an experienced web user.

      (oh and FYI, the thing that gave it away when I got my mail, other then my bank previously saying that any Visa charge confirmation requests would be done via phone rather then email, was the registration date for the domain name. They had lied about the owner/address/etc to make it look pretty convincing)
    49. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't help that some dodgy company in Redmond keeps changing the domain names of companies it owns every other day. For example when i log into hotmail it goes through a chain of various domains: hotmail.com passport.com, msn.com, live.com (wtf is live.com?) all of which want to scatter cookies over your machine.

    50. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For most webusers ( read Mom and Pop ) understanding the structure of a webaddress is completely mad.

      As a great-grandfather and long time slashdot reader, I object to your agism!

    51. Re:if it's done well, and some are by Timothy+Chu · · Score: 1

      Just got an ebay spam last night for the first time on my ebay address (which is separate from my regularly spammed addresses). It told me I had a 2nd chance to buy an item because the winning bidder had backed out or something (all this in the typical Ebay legalese). It referenced an actual item I had bid on recently with an accurate link, and was accurate as far as my bidding price was concerned. All the links seemed legit. The only thing was that the sender was not Ebay, and that it instructed me to contact an email address specifically. Excited to win the item at 30% less than what the winning bidder won it for, I replied right away. This morning, I got an email asking for some personal info like address and phone (I'm sure a request for credit info will follow). A friend told me about the scam, and that 2nd chance emails should show up under My Messages as well. It didn't appear there, and I've since forwarded the scam off to ebay. I've since gotten a direct reply from the scammer...I'm tempted to scam bait they guy (http://www.geocities.com/a_kerenx/ for some amusing Nigerian scam baiting stories) but don't want to make myself a target. But this is definitely one that was a bit more difficult to spot.

    52. Re:if it's done well, and some are by TheOneBiscuit · · Score: 1

      My default reaction to any unsolicited ANYTHING, is immediate distrust.
      If you get into the habit (Which i am sure you now have) of treating everything as a scam until proven otherwise, you are in the clear.
      I have recieved plenty of phishing letters but with a nice shield of cynicism, I have never had a problem.

      --
      Things are good
    53. Re:if it's done well, and some are by aussersterne · · Score: 1

      You'd be surprised (as I was when I first got to eBay) at the degree to which organized crime, especially in Russia and Romania, work to snag eBay users.

      The problem isn't limited to eBay (they go wherever the money is), but it's something I don't think many Slashdotters realize--that there are full-time staffs out there whose only job it is to conduct fraudulent transactions, to formulate spoofs that will get people, to look for potential victims...

      It makes them a lot of money. There are so many people out there who fall for the eBay spoofs... and whose high-feedback accounts are immediately taken over by mobsters selling nonexistent $5,000 plasma TVs for $1,200 Buy It Now... which are ended by clueless buyers convinced that by buying on eBay via Western Union money transfer they can actually save $3,800... and who never see their money again. Multiply by 10,000 times a day and you're talking a profit of $12,000,000 every time the sun comes up, give or take.

      It's big business and it's primarily being run out of Russia and Romania, with American zombie computers from Windows-based porn and warez users being the middle men sending the bulk of the spoofs, which are as a result untraceable (as though American authorities would have any jurisdiction in Russia/Romania anyway).

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    54. Re:if it's done well, and some are by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      Hmmmm...I've given the matter some deep thought. I suspect it is because it has nothing to do with the War On Terror.

      It's probably just the normal al Qaeda operation for raising operational funds. NSA, NGA, CIA, FBI, ATF, DOTFN, DOCLE, DIA...and those other clowns, are far too busy spying on peaceful Americans.

      [NSA + NGA = "Enemy of the State"]

    55. Re:if it's done well, and some are by kb0hae · · Score: 1

      #1 NEVER click on a link in an email without verifying that it is not a fake!
      #2 You can forward suspicious messages supposedly from bBay or PayPal to spoof@ebay.com or spoof@paypal.com. They will email you back and let you know if the email was legitimate.
      #3 NEVER click on a link in an email that directs you to a known site (IE your bank, eBay, PayPal, etc...)
      Rely instead on your bookmark or type in the known address, and log in. Both PayPal and eBay have stated in their policies that they will NEVER ask you for crerdit card/bank account info in an email. They would ask you to log into their web site and deal with problems from there.

    56. Re:if it's done well, and some are by qbwiz · · Score: 1

      I was pretty surprised about this too, but Microsoft gives the URL of an example page that does this (if you're using IE5.5 for Windows).

      --
      Ewige Blumenkraft.
    57. Re:if it's done well, and some are by kthejoker · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think at this point the onus should be on the bank to get in touch with ICANN or VeriSign or whoever and get those cybersquatters off those similarly named sites. Or VeriSign should allow users to complain about clearly illegitimate cybersquatting (a phisher owning bank-of-america.com or wel1s-fargo.com or whatever) and they should be taken down. This seems to be at least one avenue of phishing that can and should be easily stopped. Clearly that's not going to save the universe from spams and scams, but it's a start.

  4. There's One rule I always Follow. by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 1

    do *NOT* manage business through e-mail! And if I have to, I'll make sure to add the involved people to my "safe list" or "address book".

    (Actually, it also helps when 90% of your mails are in spanish :P )

    1. Re:There's One rule I always Follow. by gvc · · Score: 1

      (a) Avoiding the use of email for business is surrending to the s[pc]ammers.

      (b) Do you have a trustworthy white list? I doubt it.

    2. Re:There's One rule I always Follow. by mikesd81 · · Score: 1

      It would be nice if businesses would set their email with received receipts. If my ISP ever sends a message to me, they always have it set that I have to send a receipt back when I've read or deleted it. I suppose a spammer could do this, but wouldn't that make it more traceable?

      --
      That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
    3. Re:There's One rule I always Follow. by sesshomaru · · Score: 1
      My bank does it this way "you have a secure message in the [bank] message center. Please login to your bank account and click messages."

      Considering that very few people use secure Email, this makes sense.

      --
      "MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
    4. Re:There's One rule I always Follow. by Asphalt · · Score: 4, Insightful
      (a) Avoiding the use of email for business is surrending to the s[pc]ammers.

      I conduct almost all of my business online and I don't think this is necessary.

      I am never, ever asked for a password or identifying information via email. At least never by the legitimate company.

      And I never click a link in an email. If my bank/company wants me to update my information, I type their website URL by hand into Firefox, log into my account section, and do what I need to do.

      It basically comes down to this: Don't click links in email.

      This one basic rule really does solve 99.999% of all scam problems, while allowing you to conduct business online safely.

    5. Re:There's One rule I always Follow. by houghi · · Score: 3, Funny

      It basically comes down to this: Don't click links in email.

      People on Slashdot have been doing this for years. That is why nobody reads TFA.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    6. Re:There's One rule I always Follow. by Intron · · Score: 1

      In the mail header, you already have the sender's IP address. How would sending a return receipt make anything more traceable?

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    7. Re:There's One rule I always Follow. by mikesd81 · · Score: 1

      I may be wrong, but some of those ip's are spoofed. If you send a receipt then the person who's ip is being spoofed would get the notice, and then they would know something isn't quite right?

      --
      That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
    8. Re:There's One rule I always Follow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If my ISP ever sends a message to me, they always have it set that I have to send a receipt back when I've read or deleted it.

      What would happen if you don't send one? Does your intarweb a splode?

    9. Re:There's One rule I always Follow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please do not ever run a mailserver.

  5. Because... by HaloZero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...there is no patch for human stupidity.

    Most users just don't know better, despite best efforts to educate them otherwise, or make the scams obviously fradulent. Ever seen that 'MSN will never ask you for your password!' type banner on things? Know how many people retain it? Very few.

    --
    Informatus Technologicus
    1. Re:Because... by zappepcs · · Score: 1

      As Mr White says: You can't fix stupid!

  6. A little off by Golias · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He finds it strange that people called that message from "Keith" to be spam... but the thing is, if you have no idea who "Keith" is, it probably IS spam... and if you do know him, you probably would not mark it as such.

    The same goes for the US Airways thing. Yeah, it's an example of "not spam", but if you haven't recently bought a US Airways ticket, then the save bet would be that it is.

    Oh... and the nun joke is fucking hilarious. That alone made TFA worth reading.

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    1. Re:A little off by French+Mailman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I find it strange that a web site would tell the reader what spam or ham is, based solely on the appearance or the content of the message. As someone said at last year's spam conference, "one man's spam is another man's ham". Each person has a different definition of what spam is, and filters should be able to sort messages based on your criteria. I know that if I receive a message claiming from Travelocity, I will classify it as spam, even if it is a genuine Travelocity message. I have never done business with that company, so any mail that I receive from them would be unsolicited.

      On a more technical point of view, however, I agree that there are definitely suspicious signs of an email being spam, or phish. Fake headers, bogus URLs, or any trick described in JGC's Spammer's compendium are definitely signs of spam.

    2. Re:A little off by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      Yes. For me either the Travelocity or the US Airways message would be spam as I have no business relationship with either organization and no interest in creating one. Asking people to identify spam without context is silly.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    3. Re:A little off by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

      Even if I did do business with Travelocity or US Airways, it would be to buy a plane ticket, not to get more shit in my Inbox every week.

  7. spam is not the same as phishing! by seanadams.com · · Score: 4, Insightful

    TFA seems to be using a funny definition of spam.

    Most would say it's unsolicited commercial junk mail, but he seems to think it means "phony" email. Apparently he doesn't mind receiving weekly airfare specials containing choice bits like "BID FOR TICKETS TO THE BIG GAME IN THE BIG EASY!"

    Also re phishing: I'd say paypal is largely at fault for this. They do (did?) send an awful lot of useless mail full of clickable links - they were just begging to get phished because people were so used to receiving authentic but useless clickable mail from them. None of my other banks have done this (although one sends a fair amount of crap not specific to my account - rates and such).

    1. Re:spam is not the same as phishing! by gvc · · Score: 2, Informative
      The definition used for the creation of the corpus was
      Unsolicited, unwanted email that was sent indiscriminately, directly or indirectly, by a sender having no current relationship with the re- cipient.
      For more details on issues arising in labelling the corpus, see Spam Corpus Creation for TREC or The TREC 2005 Spam Track Overview. And if you have a spam filter, sign up for TREC 2006!
    2. Re:spam is not the same as phishing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This weekend I saw idiot and corporate shill Dave Dotto talking about "spyware" and as far as he could express it, "spyware" was when you were looking to buy an SUV online, and a web site pops up an ad for a competitors SUV. Of course, he very quickly let us all know that Norton Antivirusspywarefirewallintarweb edition would fix all that 100%. He was still using IE to surf with, too. Sigh.

    3. Re:spam is not the same as phishing! by qbwiz · · Score: 1

      Of course, part of the problem people have with classifying these messages is that the classifiers are not the recipients, so how would they know what the recipient wants?

      --
      Ewige Blumenkraft.
  8. What's wrong with false positives for phishing? by qwijibo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So what if someone thinks a legitimate email from a bank is a phishing scam? Banks shouldn't be using email for anything serious because it makes their customers more susceptible to fraud. If people expect to receive legitimate and sensitive communications from their bank via email, it's that much easier to fall for it.

    For example, I got one this morning talking about my home loan account with a large bank I don't have an account with. I know it's a phishing scam just from the From and Subject lines. However, if my own bank sent an email talking about my actual mortgage, I'd treat it in exactly the same way. There's no benefit to giving an email the benefit of the doubt. If there is something my bank needs from me, they can send a letter and I'll go to my local branch to take care of it in person.

    1. Re:What's wrong with false positives for phishing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never put in an e-mail anything you mind being overheard saying in the street.

    2. Re:What's wrong with false positives for phishing? by Technician · · Score: 1

      For example, I got one this morning talking about my home loan account with a large bank I don't have an account with.

      When I get those, I call the bank on the phone. (Whitepages online) to let them know I don't have a home loan with them. It is possible the loan is an identity theft and this mail is the first indicator.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
    3. Re:What's wrong with false positives for phishing? by Peter+Mork · · Score: 1

      "Banks shouldn't be using email for anything serious..."

      I get valid email from my bank all the time. Most importantly it lets me know that I have an online bill that's due soon. If I didn't receive the message, the bill might switch from being due, to being overdue. From my perspective there is a danger in marking valid banking email as spam. Of course, the bank doesn't provide a link to click on. Instead, the email instructs me to login to billpay.

    4. Re:What's wrong with false positives for phishing? by Kelson · · Score: 1

      Never put in an e-mail anything you mind being overheard saying in the street.

      Or writing at all, for that matter.

      Unfortunately, that includes things like paper bank statements.

  9. Financial Darwin Awards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people should only bank at brink-and-mortar stores.

  10. Google Trends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The blog article wasnt very interesting but I noticed for May 11th he reported on Google Trends. First time I've heard of it. Try it out http://www.google.com/trends

  11. The Power Of Attrition by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Let's say I handed you an alternator. Could you tell me whether or not it was a genuine, durable, manufacturer-approved alternator or a cheap, flimsy, fly-by-night knock-off? To be fair, I'll give you a sheet of paper with some advice on how to differentiate between genuine and knockoff alternators.

    Let's say I handed you an entire crate of auto parts, and told you that some of them may be genuine parts, while others might be knockoffs. I give you a whole binder, filled with instructions on how to differentiate between all the different "good" and "bad" parts. Some of these knockoffs are obvious fakes; others are quite cleverly done, requiring you to check for minute details such as whether or not inner surfaces are well-polished, or subtle discrepancies in serial number schemes and product logos.

    At what point do you just start winging it? After one day of studious sifting? After a week? A month? When you see a part that you're pretty sure is genuine, but would need to haul out the manual for ten minutes' worth of cross-checking part and serial number ranges to confirm this--at what point do you simply go with your gut?

    When somebody who knows what they're doing goes about trying to hoodwink your typical individual, it can be very hard for the individual to know when they're being hoodwinked, even if they know they might be being hoodwinked. It's part of human nature--there's a point at which you just throw your hands in the air and grant your trust to an unknown entity, because it's too tedious or time-consuming to check everything out. Given the average person--heck, even a person who knows a fair amount about the subject--there'll be a point where they just take the damn part and have it installed in their car, because they just want to be done with it and get on with their life. It's the same thing with phishing--unless you're one of those few individuals who has fairly advanced knowledge on the subject, you're eventually going to give up and make a gut-reaction decision to whether or not you "trust" the email you just got, simply because it's more trouble than it's worth to actually dig through it.

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    1. Re:The Power Of Attrition by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1

      Interesting analogy, but there is one thing you fail to account for: phishing sites do not have legitimate URLs. That is all you need to remember, and all that needs to be taught to users - it'd be like your alternators all having a manufacturer name printed on them, except that it was misspelled or otherwise obfuscated on the fakes; there's no point checking how good or bad the fake is, just check if the name is legit or not, takes 10 seconds maximum. It can even be broken down into some kind of simple-ish rule for users to explain what the true domain name is and where in the address it appears.

    2. Re:The Power Of Attrition by timster · · Score: 1

      A user can't be relied upon to parse a URL correctly. How about htt p://www.yahoo.com:776AAAS0ER@1113982867 ? How many users can easily tell that this does not go to Yahoo?

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    3. Re:The Power Of Attrition by XorNand · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's not an entirely accurate analogy; you're making things more complex than they are. A better one is that you get a few car parts in the mail every week. Included in each package is an admonishment that you need to get it installed, lest your car stops running tomorrow.

      Does this sound a bit absurd because car manufacturers don't actually mail parts directly customers during a recall? Agreed. And my bank doesn't email me when there's a problem with my account. "Do not click any links in emails that solicit personal information. Either make a phone call or type in the URL manually." It's that easy. You don't have to sift through a bin of good/part car parts (or emails).

      --
      Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    4. Re:The Power Of Attrition by silverbax · · Score: 1

      That is exactly the point, everyone on Slashdot knows what a ligit URL looks like, but most people don't. To the average person, they all look the same. Even developers on the same team sometimes have to ask what another developer had in mind when creating a url for an app.

      Here is another analogy:

      Take a clear glass, and fill it with tap water.
      Now tell me which water molecules have pollutants and which don't.

    5. Re:The Power Of Attrition by xdroop · · Score: 1
      Let's say I handed you an entire crate of auto parts, and told you that some of them may be genuine parts, while others might be knockoffs. I give you a whole binder, filled with instructions on how to differentiate between all the different "good" and "bad" parts. Some of these knockoffs are obvious fakes; others are quite cleverly done, requiring you to check for minute details such as whether or not inner surfaces are well-polished, or subtle discrepancies in serial number schemes and product logos.
      Know what? If I'm in the grocery business, all those alternators are fakes!
      --
      you should read everything on the internet as if it had "but I'm probably talking out of my ass" appended to it.
    6. Re:The Power Of Attrition by laura20 · · Score: 1

      I also blame some of the genuine sites for inculcating bad habits.

      My last two rate change emails from DirecTV did not have the rate changes in the mail, nor was the info accessible if you went to DirectTV and logged into your account. Instead, it had a link that led to a *third-party* site.

      SallieMae communicates about my student loan by emailing PDFs that you are supposed to put your password into to unlock. Unbelievable.

    7. Re:The Power Of Attrition by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      I only buy alternators from reputable dealers, and I never fall for spam or phishers because I would never do what the email asked me to even if it was genuine.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    8. Re:The Power Of Attrition by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      It's "too difficult and time consuming" to rollover a link to see if it's real link or an IP address or bogus URL? I dunno about you, but if I get an e-mail from my bank telling me to click a link, it better have the same domain as the URL I'm accustomed to going to do my online banking or I won't go there.

      It's "too difficult and time consuming" to ask yourself, "Gee, would my [ISP/bank/telco/cellular provider/etc] really ask me to provide [credit card #/password/personal information/etc] via an e-mail, especially when I've already provided them with this information in the past? Gee, why wouldn't they contact me in person if there were really a problem?" And think about it: especially if it's a credit card #, they really really want to get paid and not very likely to use an insecure and unreliable channel such as e-mail to get such information from you. They're far more likely to call you on the phone or send you some snail mail.

      C'mon. Do we really expect that people are that dumb? Is this what it's come to?

      I suggest everyone read Atlas Shrugged. Really. Right now. Go do it.

    9. Re:The Power Of Attrition by joe+155 · · Score: 1

      I have a simple solution to this problem though; treat all e-mails as if they were fake or spam. I trust the internet about as far as I could throw it. Also you've won a competition if you give me all your bank details and security numbers/PINs I'll wire the money to you - from my palace in Nigeria ; )

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    10. Re:The Power Of Attrition by Doc+Ri · · Score: 1

      Now tell me which water molecules have pollutants and which don't.

      That's easy: none have. H2O is H2O, always.

      --
      617B3B7F7E7C7D7F00EOF
    11. Re:The Power Of Attrition by Buran · · Score: 1

      I only buy alternators from reputable dealers

      Are you sure your dealer isn't installing cheap parts to pocket the difference between what you paid for a genuine alternator and what they actually paid for the cheap one? It's hard to check the validity of a part after it's already buried inside the car and you aren't given the packaging or any proof-of-authenticity documents.

      VW owners: don't order from worldimpex.com. They have in the past shipped me cheap imitation parts that didn't even have the proper texture of the genuine parts, let alone the VW/Audi/SEAT/Skoda logos. I will never buy from them again.

    12. Re:The Power Of Attrition by Zaphod2016 · · Score: 1

      Last time I read it, Atlas Shrugged was about 1,000 pages. I think you may be expecting too much from the people looking for Ch3@p V|@GR@ 0N|IN3.

      Ayn Rand: eternal proof that no one hates Communism more than those forced to live under it.

    13. Re:The Power Of Attrition by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1
      Thing is, it's fairly easy to make a standard checklist to see if a URL is valid or not (they're systematic, after all). For all intents and purposes a standard guide for users could look something like this:
      • What is the expected domain name of the site you want? (e.g. www.yahoo.com)
      • Look for the first slash other than those in the "http://", what precedes it and is it as expected? (e.g. .com)
      • Having established that the TLD is correct, what precedes that and is it as expected? (e.g. yahoo)
      • Whatever now comes prior to the name (www., mail., foobar.) is still part of the doman you established. (e.g. yahoo.com)
      I'm sure there is some circumstance you can think of that will not be covered, but that's a quick and dirty wording of the split-second mental process you or I would go through and it shouldn't take too long for an intelligent non-techie to pick up.
    14. Re:The Power Of Attrition by dnoyeb · · Score: 1

      Easy, DTA. I dont trust ANY email. I just got comething from vonage sending me to a website about their ipo vonageipo.com. This is the 2nd time they send me to a website that is not vonage.com. They are really clueless in that respect. I got some snail mail that lends validity to the email but I still dont trust the email.

    15. Re:The Power Of Attrition by silverbax · · Score: 1

      I thought it would be a given that you should identify the water molecules with pollutants attached, but I overestimated the audience.

    16. Re:The Power Of Attrition by Sax+Maniac · · Score: 1

      I would say to you "my car is working just fine; I don't need one." and not even bother looking. There are other cues to follow. If someone comes up to me off the street and says, "Hi! You need a new alternator! I just happen to have some!" I would be suspicious. You see, I didn't ask for an alternator, or for a pile of car parts. If I was buying a pile of car parts, I might go to a reputable parts store, instead of the homeless guy sitting on 42nd street with a bunch of greasy parts on blankets.

      I just tell my parents that no banks or ebay or anything will ever send anything important over email. Always log into important sites with your bookmark. If the message was real and important, you'll find out by them calling, them sending snail-mail, or when you log in next.

      --
      I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
    17. Re:The Power Of Attrition by timster · · Score: 1

      Maybe your users are smarter than mine -- my users can't tell forward slashes from backslashes, so you could get them easily with

      ht tp://www.yahoo.com\a\b\c:AUEUREU2342@1113982867

      I just don't think it's enough to tell people they can be safe from phishing if they just check the URL. I believe that the URL format is not clear enough in general as there are too many little mistakes a human can make when parsing one. Defense against phishing needs to be a multi-layered tactic including general suspicion, care with personal information, skepticism of URLs, careful monitoring of financial statements, and good law enforcement.

      --
      I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
    18. Re:The Power Of Attrition by geoffspear · · Score: 1
      By what mechanism do you think these pollutants are being "attached" to the water molecules? If there's anything attached to a molecule besides 2 atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen, it's not a water molecule.

      Maybe you overestimated your own grasp of chemistry.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    19. Re:The Power Of Attrition by singingjim · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Pure and utter. Not a chance in hell I will EVER simply "trust" some idiot's attempt to separate me from my monies. Just ain't gonna happen.

      --
      Terrible karma and aiming lower, which in this environment of one-sided reason, is higher.
    20. Re:The Power Of Attrition by Apraxhren · · Score: 1

      Well that only accounts for part of phishing emails. However just like some people aren't as bright, or as educated in detecting fake emails, there are phishes who aren't as bright as disguising their fake email. Part of the problem is companies not bothering to make things easier for customers.

      For example, when just logged into ebay a moment ago it directed me to a page with a contest where i could $500! The link to enter looks like this:
      http://srx.main.ebayrtm.com/clk?%5Bmore junk]
      So one could go register ebayrts.com or something similar and send some fake emails saying you could win $500! and direct people to a fake log in page. Now a majority of people would probably be suspicious and not fall for it but we know #1 ebay sends email to it's members about promotions, #2 ebay doesn't always use the same domain name. One could follow the advice you lay out and still fall for the email.

      Example 2: How about paypal, they send out an email when someone sends you money. Scammer sends email saying you just received $153.21. The link in the email is https://www.paypal.us/com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_acco unt where the real papal link is https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_acco unt. (Note Paypal.us is registered by someone in Poland and is currently used for ad squatting) Once again you just have to fall for the simple url and enter your account info. It's not so simple as hey look some 12.34.56.78 is asking me to enter my credit card info.

      Real life used examples from Millersmiles.uk, an archive of phishing emails.
      http://www.millersmiles.co.uk/report/2661
      http://www.millersmiles.co.uk/report/2681
      http://www.millersmiles.co.uk/report/2678

      Those examples are not going to work 100% of the time and still aren't undetectable but it just requires one lapse where you can easily fall victim. There seems to be a sort of apathy when it come to actually educating people. Most shrug and say it's their own fault for being scammed while companies continue to provide scammers with more ways to fool people. There is a good paper on host naming and url practices in pdf form at: http://www.ngssoftware.com/papers/NISR-BestPractic esInHostURLNaming.pdf
      I would imagine phishing schemes would be less effective with just a marginal effort of education end users and following and sound practice by the company.

    21. Re:The Power Of Attrition by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      [free alternator exampled snipped]

      I am a complete automotive layman. If you wanted to give me a free alternator, I would ask what was wrong with it. If I didn't know you personally, I would decline. If you wanted to give me an entire crate of free alternators, I would probably call the cops to find out if they were stolen.

      I am also a banking know-nothing. If I got a random (smail)mailing from my bank saying I won a cruise if only I would supply my bank account number and a copy of my signature, I would discard it without a second thought (or a first one). I wouldn't even call my bank to see if there were any truth to it.

      One doesn't have to be even remotely computer literate to classify and filter phishing and spam. A person only has to rub together two simple brain cells to stay safe. These scams have been going on since the dawn of commerce. The only thing that has changed is the transport medium.

      All of the examples listed on that site are spam. Period. I don't know any of the people in the emails, so they would get (correctly) designated as spam. It doesn't matter if the emails originated at legitimate sites or not.

    22. Re:The Power Of Attrition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Royal Bank of Scotland once tried to give away money, by putting a sign outside a branch saying "free £5 notes" or something like that. One per customer while stocks last, but no catch.

      There were no takers at all (it was only up for a day).
      Presumably everyone thought there was some sort of catch (opening an account or something).

    23. Re:The Power Of Attrition by autophile · · Score: 1
      At what point do you just start winging it?

      If the penalty for getting it wrong is having my accounts drained and my identity stolen? Never.

      --Rob

      --
      Towards the Singularity.
    24. Re:The Power Of Attrition by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      I buy online (not ebay!) and read the user feedback against a company, either that or I buy from a company recomended by my friend who used to work as a mechanic.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
  12. People suck, period. by shreevatsa · · Score: 2, Funny

    As someone said, think of how stupid the average person is, and remember half the people are even stupid than that. People suck at spotting when they're being cheated or lied to, which is why phishing, advertisers, and politicians merrily thrive.

    1. Re:People suck, period. by FireFury03 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      As someone said, think of how stupid the average person is, and remember half the people are even stupid than that.

      Wow, you must really be stupid... maybe you need to read up on how "averages" (usually the mean) work. If I told you that people on average had 1.999 legs would you assume that 50% of people had less than that number?

    2. Re:People suck, period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh I do love to reply to posts like this. Think of what "average" means. How can half of the average be stupider than the average? You are embarassing yourself :-)

      Lets say we have 3 categories, the A's, the B's and the C's, the A's are very stupid, the B's are average and the C's are smart.

      What do we get when we divide the B group by half? Two groups of B's ;-)

      Half of the average, no matter which half will always still be average. Half of what made up the average, however, that's a different story.

    3. Re:People suck, period. by craagz · · Score: 0

      Yeah, look at how some nations can manipulate the thought process of their own people, using tools like Fear, Media etc etc..to launch attacks on other nations... People must Suck

    4. Re:People suck, period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where does he say "half of the average"? In your example, the number of people stupider (or the same as) the average is the number of A's plus the number of B's.
      Assuming a normal distribution (for want of anything better), you'll actually find that if the average intelligence is I, then half the people have intelligence less than I and half of them greater than I. (Assuming intelligence is a quantity that can vary continuously, there will be a negligible number of people with one fixed value of the intelligence, so don't ask about how many of them have intelligence exactly equal to I.)
      (Of course, it is possible that the distribution is not normal, and there are a few people with such high intelligence that skew the average higher (so that actually more than half the people are stupider than average), and it is also possible that some people are so mindnumbingly stupid that they bring the average down (so that less than half the people are stupider than average).)
      FWIW, it was George Carlin.

    5. Re:People suck, period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Number of legs" is discrete and can take values only from a small set ({0,1,2}), so it isn't the same thing. For large numbers and sufficiently many elements of the sample space, the Central Limit Theorem says that the distribution will approach the Gaussian (bell curve).

    6. Re:People suck, period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it was George Carlin who said that

  13. *Groan* by Noryungi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For pete's sake people, if you have to show genuine emails, try at leat to sanitize them a little. Some of the 'ham' emails shown still have the full contact information, including the original email address. That's what I call dangerous!

    If you don't believe me, go to the web site, and try classifying some emails... You'll see what I mean...

    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
    1. Re:*Groan* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh... all the ones I'm getting have contact details for Enron employees. I'm guessing they're fictional. No?

  14. Making money by hook or crook... by ravee · · Score: 1

    We have reached a stage where people don't think twice about the path taken to make a quick buck. And the increase in phishing attacks only goes on to prove it. And people (especially those who have just taken their first few steps in getting online) fall for the ploys of these criminal activities more frequently.

    --
    Linux Help
    for all things on Linux
    1. Re:Making money by hook or crook... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reached it? we have been there for decades. The internet makes it easier.

      Many friends of mine back in the 80's did a 1 times drive to mexico to drive back a large amount of illegal drugs for about 2 years tuition. One trip, one single crossing of the border for well over 40 grand US.

      Of the 3 I knew did it only 1 was nabbed by the Mexican Police and was not heard from for about 2 years while his family paid the Mexicana ransom to get him released and then smuggled back into the US. He was never the same again and ended up being a closet nutcase because of what he experienced. I point at him as to why I was not stupid enough to do what they did. My friends that got away with it? They still have no remorse and would not change what they did.

      Now it's easier to get a few grand with a lower chance of getting stuck in a 3rd world prison nightmare. You get to perform illegal acts from the comfort of your laptop in a Coffee Shop with a near zero chance of getting nabbed if you have 1/2 a brain. Humans are NOT inherently good, they are inherently greedy and will do whatever they can to get what they want.

  15. chase email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this look like a phishing link:
    http://email.chase.com/B5RH02E0D85AC794D46693C9BD7 830

    It's from a Chase email, but I don't know if it's really from Chase or not. They should at least use legit-looking URLs.

  16. Well..... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Mind you, I think that that type of phish is the most sophisticated type of phish, being both elegant and simple. I "fell" for one of those back in the day, in that I got an email from my bank, and it notified me of some account change, so I immediately and without checking the validity of the link on the email...called my bank on the phone and said, "What the hell is up with this?"

    They of course, didn't know anything about it, I checked the link and realized it was false. That was just long term ingrained habit that puleld me out of that one, because it was an excellent phish. But how do you teach those habits of suspicion to a layman?

    It's just a security issue. I deal with passwords all day every day, and people are awful with their password security. It just doesn't make any sense to them, and they all think that the consequences for this or that little security breach are harmless, and so when something like this comes along, they fall for it, hook, line, and sinker.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  17. its all a scam by Geekboy(Wizard) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I treat all of those emails as a phishing attempt. If I think it has the possibility of being legit, I type in the appropriate web address (no, I don't cut-n-paste, I type in the previous login site), login and verify the contents.

  18. How many times do I have to say it? by Billosaur · · Score: 1

    Duuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

    Look, your average Joe is not sophisticated; they're not going to know to look at the links in a phishing email and note they don't point to their bank's valid web address nor be able to do a DNS lookup to figure out that Joe Whathisface is not the owner of the bank's valid domain name. They don't care about this. It's the same thing that happens when people get those fake sweepstakes things in the mail saying they're won something and, oh by the way, could you sedn us $500 to ship it to you?

    Put a Ford Escort engine in a Porsche 911 Turbo body and I bet 70% of the people you pull off the street would drive it and not know any better. For them, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

    Solution: raises everyone's IQ 50 points. Plausible: not likely.

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:How many times do I have to say it? by mastergoon · · Score: 1

      The thing is, this really isnt a matter of having a high enough IQ, its a matter of being informed. People really don't expect to need to learn this kind of thing just to use a computer for simple communication. The weight of getting the word out about these things to the average user is going to need to lay on someone, probably ISPs. It should be one of their responsibilities to attempt to keep their users safe. We can educate people about some of the basics, watching out for links that are just IPs and etc (and thunderbird already has some features regarding this), but some of the higher level checks need to be done automatically by software.

    2. Re:How many times do I have to say it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it looks, sounds, and walks like a duck then it might as well be (unless you're a biologist). I'd have thought that even Joe Average would notice that his fancy Porsche can't out-accelerate the Focus next to him, though...

    3. Re:How many times do I have to say it? by spun · · Score: 1

      Put a Ford Escort engine in a Porsche 911 Turbo body and I bet 70% of the people you pull off the street would drive it and not know any better. For them, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

      If you chop off a duck's feet and surgically attach sparrow feet, it will no longer walk like a duck.

      But yeah, duuuuuh. People are gullible, what else is new?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    4. Re:How many times do I have to say it? by Billosaur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The weight of getting the word out about these things to the average user is going to need to lay on someone, probably ISPs. It should be one of their responsibilities to attempt to keep their users safe. We can educate people about some of the basics, watching out for links that are just IPs and etc (and thunderbird already has some features regarding this), but some of the higher level checks need to be done automatically by software.

      But no matter how sophisticated filtering technology gets, the numer of ways that data can be manipulated and the sheer volume of traffic means that some of these things are going to get through. And while extra IQ points don't automatically confer amazing powers, they might allow people to become more suspicious of something that doesn't "look quite right."

      We've been educating people from the mid-60s on that smoking is deleterious to their health. Has smoking ceased? No. In that case, it's the addicition to nicotine and the idea that smoking someone cool (ever kiss a smoker? Yuck!). In the case of email, I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of folks who click on these links in phishing emails are: 1) paranoid types, who have so bought into the identity theft idea they can't stand the thought that someone may be stealing their identity, 2) people who have little sophistication in general and virtually none in the world of PCs and the Internet, 3) greedy people, who thin that they'll just fire off a few hundred dollars of their hard-earned money and some friendly guy in Nigeria will make them rich, or 4) lonely folks who just want to talk to someone or feel a part of something.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
  19. It's quite simple... by brouski · · Score: 5, Funny

    Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

    --
    Proud member of the American Non Sequitur Society. We might not make much sense, but boy do we love pizza!
    1. Re:It's quite simple... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      If good is dumb, then intelligent is evil ;-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:It's quite simple... by chooks · · Score: 0

      Does this mean that intelligent design is inherently evil?

      --
      -- The Genesis project? What's that?
    3. Re:It's quite simple... by rjstegbauer · · Score: 1

      Sorry, good is *not* dumb; it's trusting. BIG difference. Randy.

    4. Re:It's quite simple... by RapedByKateMorrow · · Score: 1

      This reminds me of an old He-MAN cartoon episode. In the episode, He - Man finally has trapped one of the evil warriors, and the evil warrior is hanging on to the edge of a cliff for dear life. He Man takes pity on him and helps him up, and the evil warrior laughs when rescued, mocks He Man and bsically calls him stupid for not finishing him off.

      It also reminds me of the Jean Valjean - Javert exchange once Javert is caught, and the exchange between the Good Bishop and Jean Valjean. (les Miserables)

      The Jesus - Judas exchange comes to mind as well.

      It's fairly common to see the theme of the Good / righteous having a moment of great power over his enemy, then showing mercy at the time the enemy would most likely have killed the hero (had roles been reversed.)

      The enemy claims strength in the power to destroy. The Good shows power in mercy. The enemy claims power in displays of false mercy in exchange for some evil deed ("life will be easy if you promise to like my dream") The Good always recognizes and rejects this lie, either immediately or eventually.

  20. I work in IT security, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I still don't understand how someone with a modicum of common sense would EVER reply to an email or populate a Web site with information from someone or an organization they do not know.
    If I were the banks, which are the biggest targets for phisphing, I would run commercials duting primetime TV stating that "we never send out emails asking for your personal inforation". While this would not reach everyone, it would be a start. Security, however, is not a money maker, it's an expenditure. Banks will continue to only run commercials extolling their wonderful features.
    Ever notice the commercials that sell drugs? What the hell is wrong with American medicine? Ever notice that none of these commercials or medical professionals ever talks about fixing the root cause? They only talk about the symptoms. Security is the same thing. Let's fix the root cause instead of treating the symptoms. Education of the populace would go a long way towards cutting down on phishing.

  21. Account for subconcious whitelisting! by fuentes · · Score: 1

    I think that there are more indirect behaviors that go into determining if a message is spam or not (given a filter misses it and it gets to your inbox). First and foremost, do I know the sender? That's a big variable that that quiz cannot reproduce or take into account - so of course people will have a tough time determining if a message is spam or ham. Second is the presence of attachments. If I know the sender, and the message isn't something like "check out this great video!", I'll be pretty sure it's ham.

    That quiz is great for the basics and the practice of looking at headers, but I feel it misses the most fundamental aspect of knowing the sender and letting your brain do the work that filters miss.

  22. Mail programs need better IP filters by davidwr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Email clients and servers need to start automatically looking at the chain of IP addresses or domains in the headers, and rating them accordingly.

    If any header lies, e.g. IP address mismatches with domain name, or two successive Received-by headers don't have consistent information, then RED ALERT.

    If the From domain doesn't appear in top-most received line, YELLOW ALERT. If it doesn't appear in any line, RED ALERT.

    If the top-most received line's address is from a known spamming domain or open relay, RED ALERT.

    If any previous mail-server, such as your ISP's, tagged the message with YELLOW or RED alerts, your alert should be at least this high.

    Note that red and yellow alerts don't necessarily indicate spam. They are simply one of many indicators of spam, and should be used as input to the spam/ham decision-making process.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Mail programs need better IP filters by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Congrats.

      You just reinvented something many sever side spam filters already do.

    2. Re:Mail programs need better IP filters by Buran · · Score: 1

      Shut off those fucking sirens, Mr. Worf. I can't hear myself think in here with all that damn noise.

    3. Re:Mail programs need better IP filters by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      If these don't completely filter it out, then there's not much point. I already filter my spam with dspam, and it's been pretty well trained on which headers are likely spam or not.

      Anyway, a good way to make sure I'll pay attention to your email is to PGP sign it. No signature, and you're spam until proven innocent.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    4. Re:Mail programs need better IP filters by greed · · Score: 1
      First, you need to get every company to make sure their mail servers that relay to the outside world to:
      • Make sure their HELO hostname is resolvable by users outside the company.
      • Make sure their IP address has a PTR resolvable by users outside the company.

      Until you get that fixed, you can't do a whole lot about header address verification.

      Further, From: address verification has to be handled differently. From: addresses for my domain will ALWAYS appear to come DIRECTLY from a machine in the pobox.com domain. This is because I have pobox.com handling MX for my domain, and my outbound mail goes through their SASL AUTH gateway. (Otherwise, it gets (correctly) tagged as being "consumer broadband").

      If, however, you look up the SPF records for my domain, it says "include=pobox.com -all", which means the SPF records for pobox.com apply (include=), and that this is authoritative (-all)--fail hard if any other machine claims to be mailing on behalf of my domain.

      What I would like to see is a flag raised if envelope-from and header-from do not match. You'd want a way to "train" the mechanism for mailing lists you belong to. (Mailing lists should set envelope-from to the list-owner, and header-from to the author of the message (except digests).) That'd be a big way to catch phishers.

      But all the good ways of catching phishers and spammers, as others have pointed out, also catch incompetent and ignorant corporate mailings.

      What we need is people with more backbone to tell these companies that they're WRONG, customers cannot expect to get mail from them until they fix their server configuration (be it missing HELO host records, missing PTRs, made-up from addresses, and so on).

      Big Companies (and I'm including Bell Canada and the Canadian telecommunications regulator in this one): Fix your servers, or your mail will be treated as spam and/or phishing attempts too.

      Similarly, paypal.com's SPF records are non-authoritative--they say "don't error out on failure" (~all). What's the point of that? Get it right, make it authoritative--then at least people with SPF-checked mail will stop getting paypal phishes (or the envelope-from will not match header-from and the check for that will work well).

  23. No HTML mail by Neil+Watson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Stop using HTML or convert it plain text and it's hard not to spot a phish.

    1. Re:No HTML mail by gvc · · Score: 1

      Stop using HTML or convert it plain text and it's hard not to spot a phish.

      SpamOrHam.org displays the raw message below the image. Just scroll down a bit.

    2. Re:No HTML mail by Cracked+Pottery · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, I believe that HTML email is, in fact, a sin. It is stupid to render it, and a breach of etiquette to send it.

    3. Re:No HTML mail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand why e-mail readers allow the \\ HTML tags. If they were ignored and only http://.../ text was automatically converted to links, then it would be much more obvious that a link was to a site other than that given by the text of the link.

    4. Re:No HTML mail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter! Why? Because people can't adequately judge the difference between valid, trustable URLs and invalid ones. A "paypal" email that tells you to go to http://paypal-email.com/ or http://paypa1.com/ looks perfectly legit whether it's plain text or HTML.

      Sure, plain text would prevent certain attacks, but certainly not all of them.

      dom

    5. Re:No HTML mail by Cracked+Pottery · · Score: 1

      Many email clients display the target of the link in a status line. For example, you hover the mouse over the ostensibly legitimate Paypal link and and it is displayed to be a numerical IP address, or something in with a TLD in Romania or China. Big warning. This is what people should be trained to look for. And to know when and why banks or Paypal contact you by email about a problem with your account. Which is never for any reason. For the PC, Thunderbird with HTML disabled, makes inconsistent URL's obvious.

  24. Its not required by bertramwooster · · Score: 1

    It is not required that they need to differentiate between scams and genuine mails.

    If you see a mail warning you about some dire occurences with your account, don't click the link on the page. Use the browser bookmark or something to go to the account. The reason these scams succeed are because people are _also_ _lazy_.

  25. Oh okay, I will bite. by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1, Informative
    You got a proper alternator and a shoddy one. Right. Okay. How about this test. LOOK AT THE BOX!

    If one comes with the logo of your car brand and the other comes in a plastic bag with chinese instructions. Easy choice.

    I only know a bit about mopeds (50cc limited bikes) because there as a huge industry for cheap parts but they really sucked donkey balls. Very poor quality and it showed.

    Easily.

    Perhaps alternators are different but I can tell the difference between a shoddy muffler and a good one in a second. Mostly because the good one does not have pieces falling off.

    But it is made even easier. If cars were the internet it would be very easy to spot the fake spare parts from the real ones because the real ones DO NOT EXIST!

    That is how you tell a fake request for your account details email for a real request for your account details. Because the real ones DO NOT EXIST!

    This is a not about cheap alternators. This is not even about people buying 10 dollar rolexes from a guy on a street corner. This is about people paying 1000 dollars for the Mona Lisa.

    EVERY serious site has a disclaimer stating they will NOT ask you for your details by email. EVERY scam involves them sending an email asking for your details.

    WTF?

    As for regular spam, how hard would it be to spot a car part if it said r3n@ul1 instead of renault. If you would fall for the badly spelled one do you mind if I kick you? In the nuts so you cannot spread those defective genes?

    Scams and spams work because people don't stop and think for a second. It is not asking people to spot gold plated from solid gold. Or even glass from diamonds. It is asking people for a second to think if this deal makes sense.

    You can't cheat a honest man and you can't phis a person who thinks.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Oh okay, I will bite. by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You got a proper alternator and a shoddy one. Right. Okay. How about this test. LOOK AT THE BOX! If one comes with the logo of your car brand and the other comes in a plastic bag with chinese instructions. Easy choice.

      ...yes, because a skilled counterfeiter wouldn't have the sense to duplicate a manufacturer's packaging, just as a skilled phisher doesn't have the sense to use anything other than "Gimm3 ur info ha ha lollerbate sux0r!" as bait.

      EVERY serious site has a disclaimer stating they will NOT ask you for your details by email. EVERY scam involves them sending an email asking for your details.

      In the early days, yes. Now, many phishers have wised up. They'll send you a phish that, save for one or two links, looks absolutely legitimate. You click the link, it sends you to a page at ebay.verification-department.com that mimics an actual eBay login page. You'll "log in", then they'll welcome you and very professionally gather your information--all, of course, after you've "logged in" to their system.

      You can't cheat a honest man

      Oh, you most certainly can. Just 'cause something rolls off the tongue nicely doesn't mean it's true.

      and you can't phis a person who thinks.

      Again, we're talking about attrition and trust. Unless you have a quite solid understanding of what phishing is, how to identify it, and how to go about avoiding it, you're going to eventually just trust something that looks legitimate enough. It's simply not feasible to expect that every single user of email will have enough technical know-how to identify and avoid getting phished.

      You've got telephone slamming, you've got phishing, you've got insurance fraud, you've got pyramid schemes, you've got con artists--if we were all simply smart enough to know a rat when we saw one, none of these would be a problem. The problem is that many, many people have ductile minds and want to trust other people. If you're somebody who is willing to cheat another person out of their money, odds are that you'll eventually nail somebody. It's attrition, plain and simple--eventually, people simply let their guard down, even if only for a moment.

      --

      Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    2. Re:Oh okay, I will bite. by RFC959 · · Score: 1
      If one comes with the logo of your car brand and the other comes in a plastic bag with chinese instructions. Easy choice.


      Unfortunately, #2 ("plastic bag with Chinese instructions") describes many of the "real" computer parts I've bought...

      I agree with you in part; anybody who decides that the "BUY H3rb@| V1@gRa N0W!!!!!!!!" email is worth checking out is probably a lost cause. But a lot of people don't know how to tell what's real and what's not on the Internet, because it's not as simple as PBwCI. Some of the phishing emails I've gotten are awfully professional-looking. I have not-very-technical friends who are really afraid of the big computer-internet-box-thingy and are constantly afraid of doing something wrong. If they get an email saying "You must fill out this form or your account will be cut off!", they're going to think it's real and they're going to do it.
    3. Re:Oh okay, I will bite. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't cheat a honest man

      Honesty and naiveté are not mutually exclusive.

    4. Re:Oh okay, I will bite. by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1
      You got a proper alternator and a shoddy one. Right. Okay. How about this test. LOOK AT THE BOX!

      If one comes with the logo of your car brand and the other comes in a plastic bag with chinese instructions. Easy choice.

      I'm guessing you didn't read about the entire corporate structure faking being NEC that was producing material in perfectly authentic (looking) boxes with the NEC label, instructions, and warranty information, being sold in major stores as NEC equipment.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    5. Re:Oh okay, I will bite. by gardyloo · · Score: 1

      All good points. EXCEPT that it implies that people KNOW that these things don't exist. Perhaps if they're cheated once, and realize it, and perhaps do a little research, then they'll know. But if you're newly-online-Grandma, and you get an email requesting information, you send in the information. And it only takes people getting cheated once for the phisher to make some money. There are lots of newly-online-Grandmas to take advantage of, once.

            God, that sounded wrong.

    6. Re:Oh okay, I will bite. by MrNougat · · Score: 1

      Good thread.

      I think part of the problem lies above the specifics of "phishing or not" and in the realm of "computers are made of magic and love."

      For some reason, many people are more willing to believe something that comes to them over the internet than through the postal mail, telephone or in person. I wonder if the same has been true for new communications technology through the ages. When the printing press was invented, did people suddenly start handing over blind trust to ideas and requests just because they were printed on paper? I know that the first times that audio recording technology (crappy, muddy, crackly) replaced live orchestras at the movies, theatergoers thought it was a real orchestra. I don't know how that could be, with the horrible audio quality of wax cylinders, but I think it has something to do with human perception of expected reality.

      --
      Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
  26. Travelocity and USAirways by towsonu2003 · · Score: 1
    I don't really understand the point of TFA for these two. Is he confusing spam with phishing? If you get an e-newsletter that you either didn't subscribe or subscribed because it was hidden by the website where you registered (for something else), than those are spam. It doesn't matter if it's real or not, it's spam if it's selling something and you didn't want to get that email.

    If I were a spam filter, I would forward all "sell-me-something-e-newsletter"s to the spam folder. No one's telling the user not to check the spam folder once in a while...

  27. Ignore all... by otis+wildflower · · Score: 1

    .. That's what I do. There's no reason a bank or CC company is sending me mail that isn't paper that I care about.

    Until there's some sort of crypto trust built into email (I'd prefer some form of added/retasked fields to provide domain public keys within trusted DNS) the safest thing to do is ignore such mails until you get phone or paper spam.

  28. Emails from banks? by FreakUnique · · Score: 1

    Seriously if a bank wants to do business with me it should send me a letter written by a Human not some email composed by a machine.

    My spam filter catches a lot of this junk and even if I had no spam filter I'd just delete them anyways as I don't trust them.

    --
    There have been many times when dealing with people that I wished I could kiss my own butt goodbye
  29. Au contraire... by Quince+alPillan · · Score: 2, Funny
  30. Provide cover for the less knowledgeable? by VikingThunder · · Score: 1

    How useful would it be if a system similar to say Blue Frog would fill out bogus data to a phishing website to obscure any real victims?

  31. The right spam at the right time can catch you out by Chris_Jefferson · · Score: 1

    I often used to wonder just why I got so many spams which seemed identical to ones I've been getting for months. Surely by now everyone who would fall for it had done?

    Then one day, I bought something off ebay, and used paypal. About 4 minutes later, I got the ping of something arriving in my mail box. It was from paypal. It said my credit card payment had been refused. I realised I might have changed credit cards since I last used paypal, so off I went to log in and check my details were up to date.

    I got about half way through typing in my password before suddenly I had a sinking feeling. Yes, it had been a spam. I'd just clicked on a link in the e-mail while half-asleep.

    --
    Combination - fun iPhone puzzling
  32. In other news -- this is our fault! by Howzer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In other news, 50% of people have below-average intelligence.

    Jokes about statistics aside, people falling for phishing is our fault. Our fault as in our industry's fault.

    We've spent so long training our parents, help-desk clients, and other tech-stupid creatures that the way to respond to mysterious dialog boxes is to "Just click OK!" that at this stage the damage is essentially permanent.

    Their natural instinct was to treat computers with suspicion, and we beat it out of them.

    Yay for us.

    1. Re:In other news -- this is our fault! by Oswald · · Score: 1

      But we never told them to stop treating other people (or their computers) with suspicion. Now all we have to do is teach them how to tell the difference. ("It's simple, Dad. A real modal dialog box won't let you do anything until in the current application until you answer its question. This popup doesn't intercept your inputs to the rest of the browser like a dialog box would, see? And notice how the cursor turns into the pointing finger that signifies a link?") [cue hysterical laughter/weeping].

  33. PHB Interview by PinkyDead · · Score: 2, Funny

    I was reading a Dilbert strip there recently where the PHB was interviewing candidates by showing them his junk mail and asking them what they would do with it.

    Another couple of candidates and he would get through his inbox.

    There's an intense feeling of Deja-Vu here.

    --
    Genesis 1:32 And God typed :wq!
  34. which means next to nothing by PMuse · · Score: 1
    Let's recite again the reasons tests like this don't reflect real-world conditions.
    1. When you receive email, you know whether the company it purports to be from is one that you do business with. Not so in this test.
    2. This is not your email inbox. In your own inbox, you know what emails stick out from the background of legitimate traffic.
    3. If you incorrectly classify email in this test as SPAM, this test calls that an error. In the wild, we call that "safe behavior".
    --
    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
  35. Training or brain difference? by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 1

    I wonder if it's more a lack of training or if it's a personality trait to believe phishing?

    I would suggest it's mostly training, or a lack thereof, that leads people to thinking they have to validate their account. If they knew to check the URL, and beyond that knew their bank isn't going to email them, then this would hardly be a problem except for the most "simple" users who happen to be "simple" people too.

  36. Google Mail Excels at spotting Phishing by wsanders · · Score: 1

    Gmail routes everything phishy to my spam box and puts a red bar over it. They are batting nearly 100% at spam blocking too. I get about 20 per day, and 1 or 2 slip through every other day on the average.

    The Phishes they catch are faily subtle, they are burying their evil link in HMTL which renders OK, and only the phony grammar of the message gives it away:

    "Once you have updated your account records, your
    PayPal=AE session will not be interrupted and will continue as normal. Go to the link below.

     
    http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=3D_login- run

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
    1. Re:Google Mail Excels at spotting Phishing by wsanders · · Score: 1

      Ooops, that didn't work - now let's switch to code post mode....

      <a target=3D"_blank" onfiltered=3D"window.status=3D'https://www.pay=
      p al.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=3D_login-run';  return true;" href=3D"http://www.cttwmail.net:81/webscr/index.ph p">
            http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=3D_login- run</a>

      --
      Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
    2. Re:Google Mail Excels at spotting Phishing by DaCool42 · · Score: 1

      1 or 2 out of 40 get through? And you think that's good? If we average that, it makes it about 96.3% With my spamassassin I haven't had any spam slip through or any false positives in almost a year (thousands of spams blocked)!

      --

      ----
      All of whose base are belong to the what-now?
  37. I beg to differ by 70Bang · · Score: 1



    Without knowing the context of some of the messages, some of the messages labelled legitimate can easily be spam.

    They read every bit like other messages which are spam. Remember, spam is:

    Unsolicited Bulk Email.

    Reading those messages without knowing the user's history with the senders, they may or may not be legitimate.

    Many have softened and gone with the FTC's definition where it must be business-oriented, but as far as many in the anti in the community can be, it can be political[1], religious, charitable, or any other form of message. Just because the headers look legitimate doesn't mean it's not spam. It just means it's closer to U-CAN-SPAM compliant than 99.9% of what we receive (and those who have the ability to enforce it).

    If it's not COI (Confirmed Opt-In), it's spam. (and anyone who says Double Opt-In is using SpammerSpeak to sucker you in)

    The problem with Opt-In is you can sit down and enter any number of email addresses and they begin receiving crap without confirming their intent to do so.
    _____________________________
    [1] Pick a party, any party, Democrat, Republican, Naked Tree Frog Humpers, you name it. Send email asking why their representative on the news stated a particular viewpoint when it seemed to conflict with their current platform. Try adding an appended statement your message doesn't grant being added to a list. It won't matter. Any incoming email message will have the headers stripped and automagically [sic] added to their spam list. Once you find the right person to harrass, let them know you're going to start with the local media and work your way up from there to let them know they are spamming innocent parties. It might take awhile, but if you're lucky, they'll remove you.

    mail blasts (not spam - spam is what everyone else sends) went out and there were a lot of unhappy people around the world. After the vote count was over, what do you suppose his take was? 11%. His campaign chief said they were stepping onto the cutting edge and leading the way where others will follow in the future. Peabrain candidate. For hiring that chief. Peabrain campaign chief.

    He's the kind of guy you'd like to teach to play fetch, then throw the ball into the street.

    (if you steal that, just remember, I'm a huckleberry)


  38. Yes, but by MikeyTheK · · Score: 1

    One of the things you have to understand is the way that they are measuring spam vs. non-spam. I decided to try out this project today, and some messages that I would consider to be SPAM (i.e. UCE) are not identified by the spam filter as such, and looking at the raw message doesn't appear to contain any attempt to deceive. So, it is unclear from the project what exactly they consider to be spam, and it's impossible for me to tell if they had an EBR (uh, that's existing business relationship) with the emailer, which reduces me to reviewing the message and trying to determine if it's UCE or if any of the crap inside of it is forged or not, and from that perspective determining if it is SPAM.

    This is hardly ideal. I understand that what they're asking is for me to not mimic the spam filter but to be the spam filter for this mailbox, but now that I've done it for a dozen or so messages I understand how hard it is for spam filters to implement a hard-and-fast set of rules for determining what is and what is not spam. Who knows? Maybe that p3n15 enlargement email was legit, you pr0n-sicko

    --
    Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
    Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
  39. Just a Joke by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

    Lucky for them I have a training course on how to prevent this. Anyone interested please send me your name, phone number, mailing address and credit card number and I will get you signed up RIGHT AWAY!!!

    Remember, you never spend enough to protect yourself!!!

    For the humor impaired, this was a joke...

  40. Haiku by necro81 · · Score: 1

    A lot of the spam that's been sent my way by persons unknown have many random snippets of legitimate text in them, presumably to fool spam filters. I have had whole pages of The Hobbit quoted to me recently. I occassionally open one up to look at it (no attachments or images, just the plain text) and get entertained with very ethereal poetry. For example:

    In a trice without warning the face of nature
    grew sullen Black angry mouths, the clouds
    swallowed up the sun The air was dense with
    suppressed excitement For him there was a
    little mattress of straw and woollen blankets
    The wind howled through the long corridors
    and sobbed and whispered in the secret recesses


    Shakespeare himself never wrote a finer sonnet!

    [the literary purists out there will be quick to point out that there are specific, technical definitions of what constitute a haiku or sonnet. I know these spams don't qualify as either; it's just a useful name to give them]

  41. Trial Copy? by 50m31sl4sh. · · Score: 2, Informative

    Anyone spotted red text "TRIAL COPY" across the titlebars in the screenshots?
    Looks like a "feature" of some screenshot capture shareware.

    Nevertheless, I think (having in mind the topic of TFA) this doesn't add them much credibility.

    --
    Rediculous is ridiculous!
    1. Re:Trial Copy? by shumacher · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I saw that. I guess somebody doesn't know about free screenshots from The GIMP, or even the built in ALT+Print Screen.

    2. Re:Trial Copy? by gvc · · Score: 1

      Let me see, 92,000 messages at 1 min/message. A mere 1500 hours. Think you can do it faster with Gimp? OK, 10 sec/message. You do the math.

  42. Easy: by Golradir · · Score: 1

    If it's in English, it's scam/spam/phishing, if it's in Dutch, it's genuine. Nice!

  43. Most Phishing Is Simple To Stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most phishing entails taking a user to non-SSL protected site, and if they do not look for https in the address bar or lock on the bottom status bar its their own fault for not doing a little research before entering in the ID and password.

    1. Re:Most Phishing Is Simple To Stop by Fareq · · Score: 1

      unfortunately, that works only for the about 5% of people on the internet who have any idea what https or ssl mean...

    2. Re:Most Phishing Is Simple To Stop by jekewa · · Score: 4, Interesting
      This method of phish detection has its flaws, too. It'd be pretty easy for said phisher to set up a self-certified SSL site, that the phish would accept even if it weren't trusted third-party verified.

      It's pretty easy to tell the phish from the non-phish, as I don't bank or shop at most of the places the phishers send my way. Also, should I receive an e-mail from my bank (which they already said they wouldn't send me--believing that snail mail is more secure and less likely to be abused), and I feel the need to get there to deal with whatever the message may be saying, I'm surely not going to click a link. Heck, I probably wouldn't even visit the bank during the same session for fear of some kind of redirect spyware that they tried to sneak into the session.

      Looking at the URL and seeing "ebay.somewhere.ch" instead of "ebay.com" isn't secure enough anyway, as it's trivial to spoof the status bar with the hover-over text.

      The only way to avoid being phished is to not trust any e-mail that has anything to do with anything related to money, savings, charge cards, or deals that are too good to be true--they are too good to be true. A good runner-up is to find a black-hole mail service (i.e., get your own domain name) and set up an account for each vendor you deal with, with a less-than-likely phishable address (e.g. nvrSp4mMy-ebay@mydomain.us). Then, never give your "real" e-mail address to any site you don't explicitly trust. Or even use the same black-hole method for sites you do trust--like slashdot@mydomain.us), instead opting for a black hole e-mail address; this also helps identify who compromised your identity.

      While some software is sometimes better at recognizing these things than others (I seldom get phish-mail at my GMail account, as they're recognized and flagged by the other users first), we still can't rely on an automated method to stop these things. It is on the individual to be responsible with their own information.

      "I am not who I seem to be," is the safest way to present yourself to the generally anonymous Internet. That's the way they're presenting themselves.

      --
      End the FUD
    3. Re:Most Phishing Is Simple To Stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unfortunately, that works only for the about 5% of people on the internet who have any idea what https or ssl mean...

      Based on your numbers, that would mean that 95% of the people on the internet should not be on the internet to begin with. There should really be some training required before you can run an internet connection to your computer.

      Mind you, another part of the problem is that its hard to tell people that the Prince of country XYZ is not in prison and, even if he was, he really wouldn't pay you a X million dollars for helping him be free again. Seems common sense isn't that common after all...

    4. Re:Most Phishing Is Simple To Stop by ebyrob · · Score: 1

      Heck, I probably wouldn't even visit the bank during the same session for fear of some kind of redirect spyware that they tried to sneak into the session.

      Aren't you already hosed at this point?

    5. Re:Most Phishing Is Simple To Stop by Ragingguppy · · Score: 1

      Thats not a guarantee of not not spotting phishing. What if the phishing email uses an ssl apache server. Most people I talk to on the phone don't know what an address bar is let alone what a phishing email is. The email system needs to be replaced period.

    6. Re:Most Phishing Is Simple To Stop by jekewa · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Exactly. If something malicious was going to be added, it's too late once you read the message. The only reason to feel any degree of safety in ending your browser session and trying in a new one is the potential that the JVM that hosted the JavaScript bad tool has died. In a real bad scenario, some rootkit may be applied to the system and then you're completely hosed.

      In the general, low-tech phishing scheme, though, you've just received an e-mail that looks like its legitimately from an organization with whom you do business, and they hope to steal your login and password, or name and SSN by directing you to a look-alike web site, which will give you a "password failed" message. Too late for you now.

      I was outlining the not-gonna-happen scenario where one might believe an unwanted/unsolicited e-mail from what looks like an actual bank/other vendor and try to act on that information.

      I personally feel a little safer not using Windows, which is the general target of most phishing, or IE when I do have to use Windows. I also have 4 PCs on my KVM, and would most likely follow-up on a separate system entirely...

      --
      End the FUD
    7. Re:Most Phishing Is Simple To Stop by epee1221 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Based on your numbers, that would mean that 95% of the people on the internet should not be on the internet to begin with. There should really be some training required before you can run an internet connection to your computer.
      Similarly, nobody should be allowed to drive unless they can name every part of the car and explain what its function is. Then, they shouldn't be allowed to take a car out onto any roads until they've studied civil engineering.
      Really, the idea that everyone who uses a service should know what's going on inside the black box is just stupid.

      --
      "The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
  44. Big problem with this "test" . . . by mmell · · Score: 1
    MOST of those looked like spam to my eye (although I did get 100% on the test, having a fair idea what a spam filter looks for). The fact is, many of those e-mails are spam, they just happen to be "honest" spam (i.e., not phishing attempts).

    Question - if you opt in, is it still spam? In my (snail-mail) case, I get a catalog monthly from a certain firm. It's third-class bulk mail; to anybody but me I'm quite sure it looks like junk mail (the snail-mail equivalent of spam).

    So . . . if I've done business with MexiDrugsForLess.com and opted in for "notification" e-mails ('cuz I want the best price on Cialis, doesn't everyone?), their e-mails are not necessarily spam, even though almost any reasonable person would immediately conclude otherwise. Now PHISHING is a more black-and-white kind of decision; either the e-mail actually originated from the apparent point-of-origin, or it's a phishing attack. I can concieve of exceptions to this, but by and large that's true.

    In the end, junk/spam is largely in the eye of the beholder. One man's spam is another man's pork shoulder, er, I mean "ham".

    1. Re:Big problem with this "test" . . . by gvc · · Score: 1

      You got 100% on how many messages? If you got did 100 messages and agreed with the corpus on all 100, I'd be impressed. If you agreed for 200 in a row, I'd be amazed.

      Just post the final page where it says how many you've classified and how many you agree with the filter on.

    2. Re:Big problem with this "test" . . . by mmell · · Score: 1
      I went ten for ten.

      You do 100+ if you see fit - I'll consider 10/10 enough, myself.

    3. Re:Big problem with this "test" . . . by gvc · · Score: 1

      10 for 10 is perfectly consistent with TFA's observation; If you had a 10% error rate you'd still have a good shot (35%, in fact) at getting ten right. So you cannot conclude from 10 messages that you're good at predicting what the filter will say -- at least not any better than average.

      On the other hand, the chance of going 100 for 100 if you're average is .0026%
      Even 100/100 would be unremarkable if you had say, a 1% error rate.

  45. Funny feeling by shumacher · · Score: 4, Informative

    I completed about four tests before I started to get the feeling that I was actually working on training their filter. I felt like I should be charging a fee. Most of the tests are bogus. One email asked me to add some addresses to the "TW mailing list". I don't have context - in this scenario, do I work for an employer who has a "TW mailing list"? Do I manage it? The answer has everything to do with the way I'd rank it. In fact, most of the emails referred to specific people, and knowing or not knowing them would control the rating on the email.

    1. Re:Funny feeling by gvc · · Score: 1

      You're not training any filter. You're participating in a community effort to assess the accuracy of the corpus -- and, as a side-effect, the accuracy of the community judging effort. The corpus is free of charge subject to a usage agreement.

    2. Re:Funny feeling by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > You're not training any filter. You're participating in a community
      > effort to assess the accuracy of the corpus -- and, as a
      > side-effect, the accuracy of the community judging effort.

      Useless. To me anything from Travelocity is spam. To you it's your weekly newsletter about deals on trips to Las Vegas. To you anything from KV Vet Supply is spam. To me it's important information about my order.

      To be of even limited value they have to throw out everything that isn't a Nigerian letter, an offer of cheap Viagra, or similar. However, Spamassassin already catches all of those for me.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    3. Re:Funny feeling by gvc · · Score: 1

      The definition of spam includes the relationship between sender and recipient. Not the relationship between the sender and you. Admittedly, you don't know as much about that relationship as the actual recipient would, but there are clues.

      Perhaps you'll consider these issues next time somebody claims their filter is 99.987% accurate.

    4. Re:Funny feeling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the whole point of that site is to have people solve captchas for them. That way you're actually helping the spammers!

    5. Re:Funny feeling by gvc · · Score: 1

      That's definitely something to be wary of. Spammers do set up fake sites to use social engineering to crack CAPTCHAS.

      In this case, you can verify jgc's reputation using external evidence.

  46. Where are emails from? by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    I wonder where they're getting the emails from, originally. I noticed a lot of them are @enron.com email addresses, which makes me wonder if they weren't pulled from some sort of public records somewhere. I assume during an investigation if emails were subpoenaed as part of discovery, and subsequently became part of the court's records, they'd be public domain just like other Government documents. That would at least explain the Enron emails, I'm still wondering about all the other ones.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Where are emails from? by Buran · · Score: 1

      Yep, there's a database of Enron emails:

      Enron Email Dataset

  47. I have a simple ruleset by jridley · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Rule 1: It's almost certainly not legit, before you even look.
    Rule 2: If it seems legit, then go to your browser and manually go to the institution's website and log in normally, do not use hotlinks provided in any email.

    My rule 1 used to be just "it's not legit" - none of my financial institutions EVER contacted me via email up until about 6 months ago. Now they do, so I've modified it a bit.

    You'd think people would get a BIT of a clue from the fact that, like me, they must be getting very valid-looking emails from places that they don't even have accounts with. You'd think that would tell them something.

    1. Re:I have a simple ruleset by josepha48 · · Score: 2, Informative
      you forgot a rule:
      Rule #3: Turn of HTML in your email so that your links are text and you can see what they are.

      People are nieve and "probably" 80% of the people out there do not understand the internet. The rest of us do. Just look at the politicians that make laws to "govern" the internet. They don't understand what the hell they are doing.

      --

      Only 'flamers' flame!
      Does slashdot hate my posts?

  48. Legit sites that don't look it. by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 2, Insightful

    unfortunately, there are problems with that as well - there are some legit sites that will redirect you off of their main domain, sometimes even to an IP address. Insane? Yes. But it happens. So for people who actually DO know what the hell they're doing, the problem isn't phishes that look like real sites, it's real sites that look like phishes.

    1. Re:Legit sites that don't look it. by Aspirator · · Score: 1

      A while ago I received an email from American Express,
      it contained redirected links, including some purporting to be
      secure (https) but redirecting through another (http) address.

      After some effort phoning Amex I received advice from their
      employees including (paraphrased) "yes we send emails like that,
      just click on the links, all is OK".

      In the end I was convinced that the email was in fact genuine *(whois on
      all of the domains in the links etc.)

      Given these conditions it is not surprising that people fall for the
      cleverer phishing scams.

      We really should learn to deal with signed email.

    2. Re:Legit sites that don't look it. by bsane · · Score: 1

      This is really the problem... My credit card companies email me _all the time_ with links back to their website. Its a crazy practice that conditions you to fall for phishing.

  49. That Travelocity email... the hell it's "not spam" by dpbsmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    John Graham-Cumming says that the Travelocity email at the bottom of the his blog essay "really is a genuine message from Travelocity and not a spam."

    I beg to differ. I have no problem believing that it "really is a genuine message from Travelocity."

    But spam doesn't mean "phony," it means "unsolicited commercial email." (And in my own opinion that includes "unknowingly 'solicited' commercial email.")

    In order for Graham-Cumming or anyone else to say that Travelocity email is not spam, they would need to know whether it was solicited. You can't tell by any examination of the message itself.

    If it was actively solicited by someone specifically checking a box requesting to be notified of offers, then, sure, it's not spam. If it was opt-out spam with the opt-out option hidden... or implicit... then it darn well is spam.

    Mostly likely this particular email is in a grey area... quite likely an opt-out was plainly visible, but needed to be actively chosen, at some point in the travel booking process where a customers thoughts are likely to be elsewhere (where IS that security code on the back of my credit card?).

    But it is absolutely wrong to stay that the Travelocity message is "not spam," just because it is really from Travelocity

    Spam is spam, even if it is a genuine email from a reliable company informing me of some truly valuable opportunity... _if I didn't ask the company to send me those emails._

  50. why? by agenttriplex · · Score: 1

    Wizards first rule: People are stupid.

  51. Re:LOL CUMMING by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What? I don't get it.

    Its really quite nice here.

  52. Darwininan forces at work. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "Do your part! Screw with a scammer."

    But, wouldn't that breed more scammers?
    Maybe we should castrate scammers, instead?

  53. Inaccurate Story Title by adavies42 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Three words too long.

    --
    Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
    -kfg
    1. Re:Inaccurate Story Title by mgblst · · Score: 1

      Yeah, ive met your girlfriend too (I would say half of us here have)... she sure is a gooer!

  54. Sounds like somebody's... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... got a case of the muundays.

  55. IE 7 helps with this by NineNine · · Score: 1

    A new feature in IE 7 will be a thingy that flags possible phishing sites, so that if a user is using IE, and clicks on a link that looks like a bank site, but isn't, IE 7 should be able to help out with that. I haven't seen it myself... just read the reviews.

  56. Get them unwanted attention by Harmonious+Botch · · Score: 1

    Instead of bunghole or other obscenities, try a username of "kill george bush" and a password of "allah akbar". That may generate some unwanted attention.

    And, no, I'm not worried about using those words here and now. I assume that /. is monitored already, if for no other reason than amusement.

    1. Re:Get them unwanted attention by dhasenan · · Score: 1

      It's 'Allahu akbar', you insensitive clod!

    2. Re:Get them unwanted attention by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Or "Aloha Akbar" in Hawaii I understand.

      Rich

  57. As J.R. 'Bob' Dobbs put it.. by Channard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    'You know how dumb the average person is? Half of 'em are dumber than that.' Remember, just using computers does not mean someone's got a brain. You only have to work in tech support read some of the many internet message boards to realize that.

  58. Third-party legit surveys hurt the cause by davidwr · · Score: 1

    I recently received a third-party customer-satisfaction survey from somename@somecompanyididbusinesswith.somesurveyout fit.com. The survey appeared legit, it had info that matched a recent purchase. If I recall, I gave the company permission to send emails of this nature.

    What's the problem?

    I had no way to authenticate it. If the mail had as much as a link to the original company's web site with a one-time identifier I could copy-and-paste in to verify the email's legitimacy, the problem would be solved.

    The more of these types of email the General Public gets, the harder it is to train people to only do business with your company's web site not through email.

    BTW, it's important that customer-satisfaction surveys be done by third parties and that they not use the original company's web site, email domain, or other equipment. Doing so gives the appearance that the survey results are subject to insider manipulation.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  59. two years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry but the idea that phishing got big in the last two years put a smile on my face. What you probably mean is that You started noticing it in the last two years...

  60. What's spam is relative by kronocide · · Score: 1

    Every one of those emails would be spam if they arrived in my mailbox, since I don't know any of those people and have no contact with those companies.

  61. Not quite by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Yes, I know web- and IMAP-based servers and local-to-the-end-user mail-servers have filters that do this, and POP3 servers use this in their toss-it-in-/dev/null decision-making, but this isn't quite what I had in mind for POP3 users.

    POP3 users (i.e. most Outlook Express users) should get all of their mail meta-tagged with flags like:
    X-SPAM-RATING: IP-spam-factor=Yellow; content-spam-factor=RED; content-adult-factor=RED; ....

    The end user's email client should take this information, along with its own logic, to do things like sort mail into "inbox/possible spam/likely spam" or /dev/null likely porn or mail that lies in the headers.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Not quite by nmos · · Score: 1

      SpamAssassin (normally run on the smtp server) does something very similar. Unfortunately asking users to filter their mail based headers is like asking them to perform rocket surgery. Also, it turns out that OE cannot filter like this if it's being used with an IMAP server. I'm not sure if Thunderbird's built in spam filter makes use of the SpamAssassin headers or not but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

  62. The problem by 4D6963 · · Score: 1
    There's a major problem with the SpamOrHam tests, it's that we are not the person it's sent to.

    For example, I tried taking the test, and the first email seemed to be encrypted in something like ROT13, but I tried rotating it and it didn't work. Was there another way to decode it to reveal the true and maybe genuine message? I don't know, the reason for that is that I'm not the person it was destinated to, therefore I'm not supposed to know, as if I was, I would know what it's about or not, in this case I would consider it spam or so.

    That's how people took an email showing a financial discussion between two persons for spam, it's because they weren't part of the discussion, it's like getting someone else's mail.

    Instead of claiming that people suck at spotting fishing/spam, it would be more accurate to say they suck at sorting out other people's mail.

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  63. What about unwanted phone calls? by Cannelloni · · Score: 1

    Some of us get plenty of unsolicited phone calls and there is very little you can do to stop that. Normally, unless you are using your cell phone or similar system that displays the name of the caller, you have two alternatives: answer the call or not. You don't get any indication who's calling and why (s)he needs to talk to you, and you can't put people on your "junk phone call" list. Wouldn't it be a neat feature if you could block phone spammers too? It's perhaps not possible now, with our antiquated phone systems, but it will be with the advent of IP telephony.

    --
    Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
    1. Re:What about unwanted phone calls? by leland242 · · Score: 1

      If you are in the US, then check out https://www.donotcall.gov/default.aspx

      There is also a site for junk mail - but it isn't run by the governmnet.

      However, your number is still fair game for surveys and charity. Before the DNC list, people wanted to sell me things, now they want my time and money.

      Who the hell would donate to a charity via an unsolicited phone call?

  64. Re:There's One rule I always Follow - tips by pwnawannab · · Score: 1

    What don't people understand about not following the links in the emauls? It is a basic rule and will safeguard you from any type of email phishing scam (please provide other examples). No receipts, nothing of that nature is needed. Any respectable financial institution will not ask for your secure information by means of open emaul message. Any type of informtaion update is done once the user in the secure environment or by the phone (another issue).

    I think we need to concentrate on educating users who may not posses good experience with the internet use (my 'rents). I am more worried about fat-fingering the URL, then receiving spam/phish message - block it with filter or hit delete button repeatedly.

    There was another suggestion on this thread to try use phish link and flood phish servers with bogus information. Personally, I think the "delete the emaul" approach will be more effective.

    I find new services that banks provide for their customers very convenient, but let's face it no system can be perfect. If it was built by humans it can be certainly compromised by them too.

  65. from bash.org by ringm000 · · Score: 1

    ... I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

    1. Re:from bash.org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure the former residents of Chernobyl are quite happy with your proposed solution.

  66. I still can't believe... by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

    I still can't believe it's not butter.

  67. Obey the man by lawpoop · · Score: 1

    I think the reason that phishing attacks work so well is because we are taught from kindergarten to obey authority figures and jump through any bureaucratic hoops they present.

    In the real world, there are affects of authority that act as a sign of validity -- the expensive building that the bank is housed in, the clothing of the person who is asking you to fill out a form.

    In the online world, it is inexpensive to replicate any sign of authority, such as logo images, official colors, names, etc. It's all electronic so it's practically cost-free to duplicate, which isn't the same in the case of a branch office.

    What we need is secure authentication and verification technology, like wide-spread PGP keys, and most importantly user education on how to use it.

    --
    Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
    -- Pablo Picasso
  68. Re:There's One rule I always Follow - tips by pwnawannab · · Score: 1

    Oh oh oh - also, set up 2 emaul addresses, one for personal use, this address you can use for filling out kiddie porn site forms, dodgy loan applications and Best Buy rewards programs. Second address for your more important ventures. But I am sure many of us already do it.

  69. re by brendgard · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Well, the accountant who you look down on for falling for a phishing expedition probably cringes at the way you handle bills. The Doctor thinks you're an idiot when it comes to taking care of yourself. The contractor thinks you don't know a hammer from....

    Get the picture? Jack of all trade, master of none. Or so goes the old saying. Most of us are good at something. Some could even be called brilliant. I've even met a few people who are very good a most things. I've not yet met one who is good at everything. Not one. I've heard what some of them call some very smart IT people behind their back as well. They call some of *us* idiots because of how well we understand *their* fields.

    Seems to me the ones who make it biggest in the IT sector, will be the ones who understand this and can help the people who don't understand computers the best. But then again, those are usually the ones who understand what ROI is and how it affects their jobs, and can actually tell the boss/client why the proposed project should *not* be done. The ones who understand that the person who fell victim to phishing speaks a whole new language that most computer geeks don't understand, just like we speak one they don't.

    I expect that this is not a recent phenomenon, nor is it going away anytime soon. Con artists have been around for a very long time. I make the humble sugestion that you vent in here, but for your own sake, please please please don't take it into the work place. It's extremely dangerous to yourself. When perceived as having a negative attitude, most people don't make it far.

  70. HTML email == phishing ! by redelm · · Score: 1
    I'm sorry, but it's really simple: If it's HTML, it's deeply suspect. I need text to convince me that the HTML is worth opening.

    When in doubt, look at the headers. The spam relays are obvious. If the provider allows one of it's genuine servers to get corrupted, then they should bear the phishing losses.

  71. PGP. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    Those three letters contain the solution to all phishing scams. If Thunderbird doesn't say "Valid Signature", I automatically assume an email is a scam.

    Too complex for normal people? Fine, then normal people can get scammed. We, as a society, need to stop designing security systems to the lowest common denominator.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:PGP. by qwijibo · · Score: 1

      Security systems need to be designed for use by the lowest common denominator. A user should be able to use PGP for encryption and signing without knowing all the intricacies of how it works. This gives the user the ability to benefit from the security if they follow directions, and if they do everything wrong (ie, mail their private key out, choose "cat" for their pass phrase, etc) they're no worse off for having used PGP incorrectly than if they didn't use it.

      The average user isn't going to understand key management. Should each bank sending email have a single PGP used for all of their email? Most banks have many different parts of the company that do different functions pertaining to the customer. If the signing of email is done at the company level, encryption of the data before it goes out is testing internal controls instead of ensuring legitimate emails can be authenticated. How will the key be retrieved and verified by the user for each bank? How about key revocation and replacement procedures when relevant employees leave?

      PGP would only change the methods of attack. Phishing takes advantage of people who lack common sense. There's no amount of technology that can protect people from themselves. Technical solutions are good for technical problems. Phishing is a people problem.

  72. Phishing by certel · · Score: 1

    What's not taken into consideration is that the majority of people using the internet do not know much about computers. More so, I think it's funny that people can't spot phishing based on the URL that is displayed before clicking in the status bar. It doesn't take much common sense to know that the a URL from www.blah.com/html is not the same as the bank they visit on a daily basis of www.mybank.com.

  73. Lets not forget real emails looking like spam by Simon+Donkers · · Score: 1

    My parents recently received an email to fill out an survey. This email, not listing anything like name of receiver nor having the receiver name in it's to field asked to click a link and fill in a survey. The link was an IP adres followed by a large amount of digits. The message had no information on why the email was send, what it was about, it was signed with a person's name and a company name I didn't recognise.

    While I directly marked the email as spam before my parents saw this my mother asked later if she received an email for a survey she agreed to take. This survey asked a very large amount of questions going as far as asking what kind of salery you earn, how you live, etc. etc.

    Some companies are just asking to get there email deleted.

  74. Let's not forget that a lot of people are stupid. by singingjim · · Score: 1

    Some folks just shouldn't have a computer and others shouldn't be allowed to operate it without supervision by someone with a clue. I've been an advocate for computer licensing since Workgroups 3.11/IIc. Meaning, you can't operate a computer without passing a test and getting a license to do so. Yes, I know I live in a dream world, but think of what the computer/online world would be like if AOL didn't exist and everyone online was a power user. Man, we'd be having some fun (yes, I know we already are) instead of constantly worrying about the latest and greatest virus/scam/phish. When's the last time anyone reading these pages got burned by a script kiddie/Nigerian Dr.? I'd almost bet never. Almost. Yes, I'm an computer elitist who can't program. Go ahead and sue me.

    --
    Terrible karma and aiming lower, which in this environment of one-sided reason, is higher.
  75. A hint for those of you who want to help by Caffeinated+Geek · · Score: 1

    I have found a couple of things helpful in filtering these:

    Look at the headers. Without knowing these people involved you can tell a lot by whether the headers are legitimate or not. As an example if you have a message between 2 Enron employees with no false headers you can probably safely say it's ham. It may be unwanted but it's not something I would typically filter.

    All of these e-mails seem to come from the Enron e-mail exposed by the court case which sometimes gives context clues to what would be normal.

  76. Webmail? by tepples · · Score: 1

    If Thunderbird doesn't say "Valid Signature", I automatically assume an email is a scam.

    Which web-based e-mail service do you recommend for sending e-mail messages with OpenPGP format signatures?

  77. Reiterating . . . by mmell · · Score: 1
    I went ten for ten.

    You do 100+ if you see fit - I'll consider 10/10 enough, myself.

    After all - this isn't a rigorously-applied, double-blind t-tailed test.

    1. Re:Reiterating . . . by gvc · · Score: 1

      After all - this isn't a rigorously-applied, double-blind t-tailed test.

      Whatever a double-blind t-tailed test is I do not know.

      A double-blind test this most certainly is. The sample is chosen by computer, and you have no idea of the system judgement before you click yours.

      As for being a t-test the statistics I gave in the GP constitute an exact binomial test which is more appropriate for discrete judgements than a t-test, which applies to continuous (normally distributed) quantities. Like I said if you got 10/10 that means the probability that you are no better than anybody else (contrary to your claim) is 0.35. That is, the evidence does not even come close to validating your claim.

      Since you asserted that you were better than the average, not merely "different" from the average, a single-tailed test is appropriate. In this particular case, since you got 10/10 there is only one tail anyway.

      So your ego may tell you that you're better than the rest, but your result doesn't.

  78. It took 45 minutes to convince my wife by cjmnews · · Score: 1

    I got a phishing email, and was surprised how good it was, and made a comment about it to my wife. She didn't believe it was a fake email.

    So I proceeded to show her. I clicked the link that the email provided, opened a second browser and clicked on the real site. There were several differences. But mostly cosemetic. Things the average user would not notice. The most obvious of which was the copyright date. They had obviously scraped it the year before. She was not convinced.

    Clicking on the tool bar links, like Customer Support, and Help took the user to the real web site. This didn't help to convince her.

    So, the best way to convince her was to click on the login link. First on the correct web site, then on the phishing site. They looked similar again. I generated a fake name and email address to login with. On the correct site, the login failed. On the phishing site it allowed me in. She was starting to believe it now.

    When the phishing site started asking for credit card numbers, pin numbers, passwords, driver license numbers, addresses and phone numbers she was then convinced. Entry of fake data in all of the areas, and the phishing site took you back to the real site, trying to log you in with the fake name and password. Which failed.

    People like to believe the world is good.

    --
    You can lose something that is loose, so tighten the loose item so you don't lose it.
  79. Ion complex by tepples · · Score: 1

    If there's anything attached to a molecule besides 2 atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen, it's not a water molecule.

    The water molecule is polar. Salts will dissolve and attach themselves to the + or - side of a water molecule, forming an ion complex.

    OK, new question with what I assume is the original intent: I have 10 glasses of either safe water or polluted water. All contents are colorless to the naked eye. How do you tell which ones contain safe water and which contain polluted water?

    1. Re:Ion complex by CommanderData · · Score: 1

      OK, new question with what I assume is the original intent: I have 10 glasses of either safe water or polluted water. All contents are colorless to the naked eye. How do you tell which ones contain safe water and which contain polluted water?

      Simple. Assume that all 10 glasses of water are bad, and go get your own bottle/glass of water. Or, to switch back on track- assume there is always a possibility the address in an e-mail is a phishing attempt and just type the www.ebay.com or www.paypal.com or whatever into the address bar. Never click the links provided, never drink the water provided.

      The people that came up with HTML formatted e-mails should be piled in a rocket and fired into the sun...

      --
      Urge to post... fading... fading... RISING!... fading... fading... gone.
    2. Re:Ion complex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy, I throw them all out. I ordered a beer.

    3. Re:Ion complex by adamdeprince · · Score: 1

      Pour them into the same pitcher and drink one glass of the remaining mixture
      The solution to pollution is dilution!

  80. Making Spotting Phishing E-mails Easier. by Geist · · Score: 1

    Some suggestions to make spotting phishing
    e-mail easier:

    1) When an e-mail includes a web link, the e-mail software should display the actual link address in the e-mail (as part of the display).

    For instance, I got a fake Royal Bank e-mail, that displayed visually the text: "https://www1.royalbank.com/english/netaction/sgne .html"

    But when you view the message source, you see the link is actually: "http://www.mppagog-barlin.de/updating/w/https/www 1.royalbank.com/cgi-bin/rbaccess/rbannxcgi"

    One look at the link, and I knew it was bogus!

    I'm amazed that e-mail software doesn't do such an obvious step. You could go further and display a warning when the anchor text is a web address, but doesn't match the actual link address.

    2) Keep a list of common businesses that are likely to be spoofed (ie finacial organizations), and whenever the e-mail mentions one, add to the message at top a warning banner like: "financial organizations never ask for personal info by e-mail. If this message does, it is likely fake. Contact your organization by phone to check." etc.

    Ryan

  81. And the rest of us get bombarded by Kelson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem is that while con men target idiots directly like snipers, phishers and spammers pull out a machine gun and mow down everyone on the street.

    You might be smart enough not to lose your shirt to a con artist, but if a new one knocks on your door every five minutes, you're going to be pretty damn annoyed.

  82. Selling auto parts in a grocery store by tepples · · Score: 1

    If I'm in the grocery business, all those alternators are fakes!

    If you're in the grocery business, you get undersold by Wal-Mart, which sells both groceries and auto parts.

  83. Here's why phishing scams get the best of us: by rinkjustice · · Score: 1

    I've almost been fooled a couple of times by phishing scams. Why? Multitasking and not fully paying attention. You see, getting my email is a little like checking my mailbox or getting messages off my answering machine: it's a bit of a mindless chore. And with children vying for my attention and music in the background (or in my ear), I've been close to clicking the 'submit' button on that bogus PayPal form in the email a couple of times (it's when it asks for my ATM # do I wake up and look at the url).

    It definetely can happen. I'd even bet it happens to savvy users as much or more than neophytes because of the very reason I described.

    As for the nun joke? I guess you gotta be an afficianado of wine...

  84. I almost ALWAYS fall for phishing, but... by MukiMuki · · Score: 1

    I've never been scammed once. Why is that? 'cause I've never clicked a phishing link. That's the key.

    "eBay" sends me a message telling me my account's been cut off? I go to ebay.com. Manually. In a new window. Same thing for Paypal.

    You can kill just about any phishing email in its tracks with this method. =3

  85. Thank You, citibank! by seebs · · Score: 1

    Consider this site: Thank You Network

    Citibank's been pushing it heavily. They ask me to sign up for it, put in my account information, and give them information about any and all citibank-related stuff I have which might allow me to earn ThankYou Points.

    Is it a citibank thing, or a third party? It seems to be just citibank. However, the site isn't anywhere in "citi.com".

    When some phisher comes along and registers "gratefulrewards.com" and tells people to please "reenter your data from ThankYou Network on our new site", it'll be citi's fault that people fall for it. Citi's phone staff can't tell you what is or isn't a legitimate citibank site. I've heard people reporting advice like "Make sure it has a citibank logo on it" or "just click on the site that's in the email".

    Phishing works because vendors are aggressively dumb about preventing it. They are trying so hard to train users to fall for phishes...

    --
    My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
  86. This is why encryption/certs are needed! by Temujin_12 · · Score: 1

    If email encryption and certificates were a *STANDARD* feature by the major email clients (desktop and web based), then institutions could set a blanket policy that any email communication from them to their clients/customers must be encrypted and/or contain a digital certificate. Even better, these certificates could contain usage policies so that email clients could automatically filter/delete messages w/o the proper certificate or that don't follow stated policies.

    The trick is that the user needs to be abstracted away from the encryption/signing process so that they understand the basics of what encryption/certificates are but can use them with with just a click or two.

    A good example of taking security technologies and providing them to the user in a well abstracted form is TLS under HTTPS. IMHO, phishing would be drastically reduced if email encryption/certificates, along with usage policies, were as common and supported as TLS under HTTPS is today.

    [Pre-rebuttle]I am not saying that this will solve ALL phishing scams. I'm just saying that there are technologies out there that, if commonly supported and intergreted into email clients/services, would greatly increase the difficulty of pulling off a phising scam.[/Pre-rebuttle]

    --
    Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
  87. no meat by WiFiBro · · Score: 1

    I just don't eat no Ham nor Spam - all commercial looking mails go down the drain, or in the bitbucket if you like. Call me a cybervegetarian. :)

  88. Many of them try to redirect to the real site by Solandri · · Score: 1
    I've never actually gotten into anything that looked like an account site. Once you provide the username/password, they are done with you and the phish ends there.

    No, the phish ends when they empty your bank account. If it doesn't look like the real account site or redirect to the real account, that tips off the user that there's fraud going on. Then you're likely to login to the real site and change your passwords. The better (worse?) phishing scams will redirect you so as not to arouse your suspicion.

  89. Phishers getting more clever, sites are not... by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 1

    The other day I got an email purportedly from Bank of America (and I am a customer), that had a "click her to login" link on it. Reading it in html, the link looked legit. I couldn't see how it may have been obfuscated to a clone site. On the other hand, I consider any email that contains a "click here to login" to be either a phish or created by complete morons, and in this case either possibility seems about equally likely. Either the phishers are getting smarter or the banks are getting dumber, but the net result is about the same.

    But B of A have instituted a new means of protection at login, which may have given them the bravado to try this kind of email-- they have a picture and a keyword that they use in addition to the password and ID-- you enter your ID and if you don't get the picture you expect or the keyword you expect you shouldn't use your password to login. It's some attempt to protect against phishing, but it's not at all clear to me that the technique is foolproof. Perhaps B of A thinks it is so there's no risk at using a 'click here' but I ain't clickin' on it nohow...

  90. *sigh* by AriaStar · · Score: 1

    When are people going to wake up and learn to always manually type in a website rather than click links? The idiots who fall for this stuff are owed our gratitude. They're the magnates for these scams. Of course, it would help tremendously if banks and such stopped pushing third-party sites. https://www.thankyounetwork.com/ is a legit site (just ran it through my company's software), but plently just like this aren't. If people know this one is legit, what is there to make them weary of the fakes?

    1. Re:*sigh* by gvc · · Score: 1

      "Manually type in the link" is incomplete and dangerous advice. Look up the link using an independent source.

      Recent phishing even include a warning to the effect: WE NEVER INCLUDE LINKS. Type in the URL of our homepage paypal-for-you.com and enter your security info.

    2. Re:*sigh* by AriaStar · · Score: 1

      I meant to the website. Rather thank click on something supposedly from Paypal, type in www.paypal.com. I should have written to type in the mainpage URL. Now I feel dumb as I specialize in phishing prevention. Long weekend.

  91. SpamOrHam seems a bit...outdated by eyrieowl · · Score: 1

    I tried doing my part on the site, went through a dozen emails or so...but they were all from 2001/2002. I dunno about the spam filters everyone else has, but the sort of spam I used to get back then wouldn't stand a chance of showing up in my inbox today. Spammers are always trying to innovate and find loopholes around the latest and greatest filter technology, so I don't see how my analyzing 4 year old email from Enron is going to help improve filters for the future....

    1. Re:SpamOrHam seems a bit...outdated by gvc · · Score: 1

      Were they really from 2001/2002? How do you know?

    2. Re:SpamOrHam seems a bit...outdated by eyrieowl · · Score: 1

      because they show you the headers and the headers had dates on them. and almost all the emails were to and from people at Enron and many of them were related to stuff taking place at enron.

  92. What "Trial" software is this guy using? by assassinator42 · · Score: 1

    I notice every image on spamorham and the guy's blog says "TRIAL COPY" on it. Why?

  93. all e-mail advertising is not spam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I take exception with one of your comments. If I run a mailing list and you ask to receive said mailing list it is not spam regardless of content. The exception I will make for this is if the signup is misleading. But if you know that you are signing up for X merchant's mailing list (Travelocity is a good example) then you want to receive that advertising. That's not spam.

  94. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise (Exchange) by Caffeinated+Geek · · Score: 1

    One final complaint, and that's about outlook/exchange: why the hell doesn't it treat "internally" sourced messages differently than "external"?

    If you are talking about this specific example it is because of the way this was acquired. The e-mail appears to be the messages taken when enron went to court so this is not exactly as it would appear on the server. This is great since one of the huge problems with creating a corpus of ham and spam is getting good ham since it is inherently private e-mail. Since this was already in the public domain why not use it. The other method for distributable corpuses that I am aware of is to use mailing list traffic but that has an obvious skew.

    Most spam filtering software that I have seen does treat internal mail differently than external e-mail.

    Just because something comes in with a from of an internal address does not automatically make it spam. A number of web sites have options of sending a message to a friend. While I admit this is a horrible idea it does create some e-mail coming win with a from address that is local to the receiving server. This is one of those numerous examples of why spam filtering with low false positives is difficult. It's hard to know all of the possible legitimate actions that can look suspicious.

  95. People suck at spotting their mom. by JumperCable · · Score: 1

    Don't believe it? Take our sample test.

    View THIS IMAGE. Is it your mother?

    Amazingly 99.9999995% of the population don't identify the above image as Mom. Therefore people suck at identifying their mom.

    ***Claimer: No I did NOT throw in the goatse guy. It's safe.

  96. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise (Exchange) by plover · · Score: 1

    Oh, I know it doesn't. For example, I know our Exchange server doesn't put any headers on my email differentiating mail originating on an inside SMTP port vs what comes from the outside (unless you look closely at the Received chain.) It's just that in "most" cases, it really is spam.

    --
    John
  97. Re:That Travelocity email... the hell it's "not sp by senatorpjt · · Score: 1

    I don't care if I BEGGED them to send me an advertisement. After the first email, every subsequent email is spam.

    I personally consider ANY email trying to get me to BUY SHIT that I wasn't specifically seeking out to be spam.

  98. I thought I knew what I was doing. by eBayDoug · · Score: 1

    In my past life as a full-time eBayer, I got used to the phishing attempts.

    I got on with my life in a new business. One day I was in the Philippines as i had been for a month when my paypal card got gobbled up at the local ATM. When I got home, there was an email in my inbox, asking me to please verify my paypal account because of possible fraudulent activity.

    It made total sense to me, Paypal thought my card was stolen and was being used in the Philippines.

    Well, long story short, because of random circumstances, some guy in Romania is $5000 richer. I verified my first born and more.

    Apparently, they made an ATM card and withdrew all my funds at an atm in Romania.

    Boy did I feel stupid. Live and Learn.

    --
    Learn About Outsourcing. http://www.pioutsource.com
  99. More like by Sithgunner · · Score: 1

    Recent phishing sites are hard to spot, besides it would be impossible to tell once the DNS server you use is under someoneelse's control than the operator that's supposed to maintain it. Also some no one will remember every secure site's obscure domain name that they visit as well, making it hard to tell. My bank's internet domain is www.mufj.jp... I'm supposed to differetiate that from www.mufj.co.jp (co.jp usually comes for a business company's domain) if there's such a thing on a phisher's mail that comes in to me, or hell I won't realize if I'm on www.mfuj.jp, if there's such a thing.

  100. Amazing by bermudatriangleoflov · · Score: 0

    Its amazing how people take this problem and turn it into this major scientific discussion on what OS to use, what html tags to trust, blah blah...it is just common sense that needs to be used here, nothing else. Oh wait was that not a nerdy enough comment for the moderators?

    1. Re:Amazing by gvc · · Score: 1

      it is just common sense that needs to be used here, nothing else. Oh wait was that not a nerdy enough comment

      Lack of social awareness is a classic nerd characteristic. Often combined with an affectation of superiority. Your comment qualifies.

  101. And as usual by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 1

    The US Airways message COULD well be spam, if you didnt specifically authorize or request US Airways to send you email.

    Also, unless you work in the Internet/email field, are intensely aware of phishes and get six dozen of them a day, you CANNOT determine if a message is a phish or real just by looking at its rendered appearance in a typical end-user email program.

    If the message is advertising something, you didnt specifically authorize or request the sender to send it to you, and you didnt want it, then it is spam.

    Anyway, here are some simple rules for the average consumer regarding phishes. Please feel free to copy/print/reproduce as desired.

    If you get a message requesting any personal info that you were not specifically expecting to receive, it is MOST likely fraudulent. Do NOT reply to or fill out any forms, click on any links, or call any phone numbers contained in any unsolicited message claiming to be from your bank, credit card company, the government, or any other business that is at all related to your financial matters, credit, identity, or other information you want to keep private and secure.

    If you get an email claiming to be from a bank/business/other entity which you DO have an account with, and it suggests that there is any problem with your account(s), *CALL* them (using the number on your paper statement or that you previously obtained directly from them - NOT any number in the email), describe the email, be clear that you suspect it may be fraudulent, and ask for help. If you deal exclusively with them via a website, then go to that website in the manner that you have always normally done so (by hand-entering their direct address in your browser) and log in and check your account(s) there, and if anything suggests any problem communicate with them in whatever manner you usually would to request help - if nothing suggests a problem, then the email was probably fraudulent)

    If you get an email claiming to be from a bank/business which you do NOT have an account with, absolutely ignore it, or if you feel compelled, report it to some appropriate authority.

    PayPal and eBay are popular fraud targets.

    IGNORE any email that claims to be from either of these that does not address you by your full name. Real emails from them will ALWAYS include your full name.

    It IS ok to follow the instructions in an email if you were specifically expecting to receive that email message from that entity at that email address (for instance the account signup procedure for both of them utilizes an email confirmation process)

    If you do get an email that you do think might be real but that you were NOT expecting, do NOT follow its instructions - instead log in to your PayPal/eBay account in the normal way (by directly hand-entering their address into your browser.) If the email is legitimate then the same information should be presented to you from within their website - use the instructions (including any links) contained there, NOT any from the email.

  102. Which part of "Good enough for me" don't you get? by mmell · · Score: 1

    Knucklehead.

  103. Re:This really shouldn't be a surprise (Exchange) by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

    But on the other hand, ENRON seems to have run a severly misconfigured e-mail server, which sprinkles tell-tales signs of spam liberally, even into legitimate mails. Around here, we usually bin any mails that have the string SMTPSVC anywhere in their headers (99.99% of these are spam at our place... but apparently not at Enron!).

    In addition to that, Enron's users do not seem to be very computer litterate (weird quoting, and occasionnally, they accidentally fire off entirely empty mails -- with neither text nor attachments!), and not very litterate period (some "ham" mails are so full of grammatical errors that it is hard to tell whether they're spammy gobblygook, or "ham" that is very poorly spelt and formulated.)