You know with Zenworks, I couldn't update through our work's authenticated proxy. But I could using Yast. Now that 10.3 is out, they ripped out Zenworks and somehow managed to break Yast updates through an authenticated proxy.
For years the record labels controlled the music business. They even had a firm grip on the record stores. And now, the tables are turned slightly. Apple is able to call at least some of the shots, and Universal hates it!
And Universal is very scared also. People hop on iTunes and buy music. iTunes tells them what the top sellers are. Heck, they grab podcasts instead of listening to radios. For a lot of people, iTunes is becoming their only interface to music. Soon the record label will be forgotten and iTunes will be remembered.
That's what Apple is hoping for. I really think they're planning to remake the record industry. I guarantee you that software is already done that goes directly from GarageBand or Logic Studio straight to the iTMS. No record label needed anymore.
The future of music doesn't involve record label. Record Labels were f*cked as soon as the CD-R came out.
Why for f*ck's sake do private companies still own the pipes that come into my house?? Shouldn't these pipes be fiber optic and owned by my local municipal government? That way I can pick any ISP, Phone or Television company I want to run to my house at the same blazing fast speed.
The Internet seriously went downhill after the NAPs were sold off.
As long as the phone companies and cable companies own these pipes, monopolies will exist forever.
For the life of me, I don't understand why people still keep using Office Suites for COLLABORATION. Every company on the planet should outright BAN Microsoft Access. Our MS Access issue has spiraled out of control to a point where we have THOUSANDS of little databases all over the place...
MS Word is fine for typing up letters, but documentation is better kept in a wiki somewhere, or a web based CMS, where versions can be tracked, the documentation can be indexed, and it can be searched.
Office is a crutch that people should be moving away from.
I hope the whole f***ing planet blocks ALL US IPs from getting to their sites. Maybe that will teach AT&T a lesson. Most first world nations offer 10 Mbit bidirectional pipes, some offer 100.
The net is neutral now, and I don't see anyone complaining, except for AT&T. Put on your big girl panties AT&T, and FIX YOUR BACKEND!
AT&T is saying that their existing customer base is getting crappy service because they don't have enough bandwidth to support their customer base. So, instead of, I don't know....dealing with the problem by making infrastructure changes they should have made 5-10 years ago, instead they want to charge content providers for access to their inadequate pipes.
With all the patching Automatic Update does, I'm surprised that Microsoft isn't all over a neutral net. They may have to pay a fortune to ISPs. Then again, they would just probably create a "Windows Update Pro" and charge users for "faster access" to updates.
It's about time we had TV on-demand for everything. I have been seriously considering the AppleTV for this reason. If I buy only the shows I want to watch, then I could turn around and cut my satellite bill from $65 a month to about $20 a month. I just wish the shows were in xvid format. so I could take them anywhere.
My only current hangup is the 6 and 4 year old. Apple doesn't sell most of the stuff they want to watch on-demand.
Microsoft is "allowing" Linspire to use TrueType, a technology developed by and owned by Apple, Inc. Microsoft gets to use TrueType as part of it's patent cross-licensing deal with Apple. There is also a Postscript clone called TrueImage that Apple developed and no one uses any more.
Thing is, I believe in God. And I believe in the Gospels. I also believe in Evolution.
Evolution is not a religion. It never will be. The American Heritage Dictionary defines religion as : "1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. 2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship."
Science attempts to explain the universe around us. There are rules which the Universe follows. Some of these rules are called by names such as Evolution, Physics, etc. Without any intervention on God's part, the Universe can only act a certain way, as defined by observed Laws and Theories.
To me personally, Science is an explanation of HOW God does the things he does. How does God makes new species? He uses Evolution to do it. He put the process of Evolution in motion, and here we are now, arguing the point.
This is the longest debate I have ever had with a creationist. Many have given up long before you did. I will sum up my personal beliefs in a some points, wait for your response, and then I think we need to let the topic lie as is.
My beliefs are as follows:
1. God exists. Jesus existed as a man and exists now in Heaven as God. I have no issue with this.
2. God calls everyone to worship him in their own way. The Muslim and Hebrew religions are no less valid that Christianity is. In the end, all 3 worship the same God, despite what anyone may believe. Every religion has it's radicals. Radical Christians bomb abortion clinics. Radical Muslims blow themselves up, and some radical Orthodox Jews have actually beaten people up for violating the sabbath.
2. The Bible, though a wise book, is not 100% true historic fact. Many of the very early books are merely a collection of old Hebrew religious fables. The creation story being one of them, since there are in fact TWO creation stories in the Bible. In one story God makes the animals first and then man and woman together. In the other story man is made first and the animals are made afterwards and given to Adam to name.
3. Scientific estimates about the age of the Earth and the Universe are probably pretty accurate. There is no reason to think they are not, since observable radioactive decay in recorded history has never even deviated once from predictions.
4. Evolution works and is God's creation. He created evolution and it has created the biodiversity that is on the planet. Evolution did start millions of years ago and is still working now.
5. We both really need to get lives. Agreeing to disagree is a simple answer. Neither of us will be swayed by the other's values and beliefs, as interesting as we might find them.
There, now I will let it drop. Feel free to respond and get the last word in.
Every textbook I used in school started off with 'Scientists believe that..." Which is good enough for me.
Extrapolation is part of every science out there. Hell it is part of religion. We use a set of LAWS that are thousands of years old (The Ten Commandments) to govern our lives. Moses got them on the mountain, but no one alive now SAW Moses get them. No one here can confirm that there were no transcription errors when they were copied from the tablets. The whole point to theories is that scientists come up with an idea of how something works through observation. Other scientists test that idea to the best of their ability, and decided if they like it or now. Others try to disprove it. Once a theory is 100% proven, then it becomes a law (such as the Law of Gravity.) Until someone concretely disproves evolution, it will stay a scientifically taught theory, and it's going to take more than a 6000 year old book to disprove it.
Evolution and adaptation are two entirely different things. Adaptation is in no way genetically linked, the way evolution. Just because an organism can adapt to an environment does not make it evolve. For it to evolve, it must have a unique genetic characteristic that gives it a survival advantage over other organisms in it's species.
Gravity is automatically created when a body begins to spin. You're right. No one knows where gravity came from. And we probably never will. it's one of the many forces out there in the universe that governs how bodies moves. Personally, I could care less. I hate Physics. Let them come up with the best possible explanation of where gravity comes from and present it in science class.
In the end, what it comes down to, is God will have no place in the science class until someone proves he definitely exists. Or he shows up and says hello. Problem is, since the resurrection, God has definitely taken a hands off approach to this planet. In Old Testament biblical times, God was poking his nose in all the time. Now he stays ominously quiet.
I also have issues with God revealing himself only to the Jews early on. I think that was rather selfish of him.
Ok, here is where I think a major problem occurs. Nowhere does evolution imply the Earth was Billions of years old. Evolution is a simple theory about how one species can evolve into another completely different species. Darwin didn't even know about GENETICS to understand HOW Evolution occurred. He just saw from various observations of the known world that a process called Evolution made sense to him, so he came up with the theory.
Nowhere does Evolution state the Earth is millions of years old. Nowhere does Evolution talk about a "primordial soup" from which amino acids formed. Evolution doesn't even talk about the Big Bang. Evolution DOES however, try to explain how a woolly mammoth changed into an Asian Elephant over time.
Heck, the creationist museum itself uses evolution right on a wall plaque in the museum, showing how animals are given the ability to adapt. The fifth picture on this page clearly shows animals evolving after the great flood.
Scientists have, for years, used radioactive dating to determine the age of fossils and the Earth itself. Creationists claim that we cannot use this, because that constant radioactive decay is only a theory, because no one can observe radioactive decay over millions of years. Well, that may be so, but from observation of radioactive elements over 100 years or so, no one has EVER seen any fluctuation in the rate of radioactive decay. This is observable and recorded. What proof is there that the Earth was created 6,000 years ago other than the Bible?
Let me list for you some theories taught in current science:
The Theory of Relativity - So Complicated I can't even begin to explain it
Global Warming - A theory that the temperature of the earth is going up due to "greenhouse gas" emissions
Plate Tectonics - The belief that land masses move, causing things like the California Earthquakes and the formation of Hawaii
Cell Theory - Believe it or not, most of the rules for how cells operate are only theories.
Atomic Theory - The THEORY that compounds are made of atoms and those atoms together form molecules
How much of this stuff should not be taught in science class? By your definition, none of it. Can you imagine a Biology class where cells can't be discussed? Or a Chemistry class without a Periodic Table of Elements.
Theory has it's place in Science. Religion does not. You want creationism taught in school, write a paper, get it peer reviewed, get it published and THEN we can talk about in science. Heck, get the Bible peer reviewed. They are A LOT of religious scientists out there.
The one last thing to think about is this: the theory of evolution, as it is taught now with genetics, is very complex. It requires a lot of time. The THEORY of creationism is really quite simple. 6,000 years ago God made everything in 7 biblical days in a certain order. You discuss the order, you discuss why creationists feel the earth is 6,000 years old and you're pretty much done. This is no offense to the creationists belief. If it was taught in school, it would get about 15-20 minutes of time. Evolution would get about a week. And this, would again piss of creationists as not giving equal time to both theories. On top of that, if you want to teach creationism in school, you would need to teach every single religion's creation theory. not just the Jewish one.
Oh, and make no mistake, the current creationist theory was BORROWED from the Jews, and as far as I am concerned, the only one qualified to discuss it, or justify it, is a fully bona-fide rabbi. I say that as a proud Catholic
I have no issue at all believing that God started the Universe. It's really the only thing that makes sense. I have a huge issue believing that he takes an active involvement in every singler little tiny thing that happens here. That would make for a very busy God. If that really were true, there would be no need to pray. After all, you pray to get God's attention
I do admit that a lot of atheists use Evolution as some kind of dogma for the fact that God does not exist. However, nowhere in the classroom of any school where I was ever taught was there ever made mention of the fact that God does not exist solely based on the Theory of Evolution. For that matter, there has never been ANY anti-God propaganda by any science teacher, that, my wife, my parents or my children have experienced.
If you believe that Evolution is some kind of state sanctioned religion, then you have to believe that ALL OF SCIENCE is state sanctioned religion, and we should go back to the days of witch doctors and potion cures.
Well, if the Bible didn't contradict itself, that would be fine, but first we have man walking around and lonely, so God makes Eve from Adam's rib. Then in the next chapter we have God making man and woman together. Which is it? How are we to believe in biblical creation, when the Bible can't keep it right.
Secondly, evolution is not some kind of Dogma that is a state sanctioned religion. Evolution is SCIENCE, plain and simple and belongs in Science class. Creationism belongs in RELIGION class. Personally, I have NO ISSUE WHATSOEVER with religion being taught in public schools, as long as it is not mandatory. Also it should be offered in different flavors and picked up by the community.
So, you attend a public school and twice a week or so the local Catholic Priest (or Christian Minister), Jewish Rabbi, Muslim Cleric, Hindu Cleric or whatever, come in and hold a class that parents can voluntarily sign their kids up for. If your faith is represented, you can send your child there, if it's not, you can ask your cleric to come in and run classes. In THAT class you can teach all the creationism you want to kids, as long as you don't bad mouth the science teacher, and the science teacher agrees not to bad mouth the cleric.
Don't try to shoehorn creationism into science class, or ban evolution. Instead, get CLASSES ADDED to teach what you want to teach. Or if that doesn't suit your needs, go send your kid to private school.
The US has the 34th best schools in the world. The top 10 countries, use vouchers for their kids, so they can send them where they want. Most of those schools offer some kind of science class as well as a religious class to give children a well rounded education. We could learn from these other nations. Our school systems have much bigger problems in the US than whether or not evolution is being taught.
A lot of people think like you do. There is nothing wrong in believing in God. It's when you make rules about HOW to believe in God, and then FORCE other people to believe in and worship God the same way you do that issues arise. Look at the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the Communists (they forced Russian Orthodox down everyone's throat).
NOT believing in a God and forcing that view on everyone is also wrong, as mainland China did for years.
Can't we all just get along, and realize creationists need help.:-)
What exactly does evolution have to do with without the activity of the mind. It's quite clear that DNA was around long before the human mind was.
I believe there may have been a Biblical flood, ISOLATED to the area where Noah lived. Good God. How exactly do you think Noah got Penguins, Polar Bears, Kargaroos (or any marsupial for that matter) on the ark?
Did the flood wipe out Dinosaurs because Noah couldn't fit them?
And, how exactly do you explain the AGE of fossils. Radioactive decay is a constant and used to measure the age of all sorts of things.
Don't try to shoehorn the Bible into explaining everything, because it really is quite lacking in a lot of areas, and is definitely open to interpretation. The Bible was written by PEOPLE and not by God himself. Heck, don't we believe Moses wrote the Torah himself. Moses was a MAN, not a god or demigod. And, guess what, people MAKE STUFF UP. The alter history to suit their needs.
Heck, the Muslims believe that the Koran is in Heaven and it is in Arabic, and that all the Korans here on Earth are copies of the one true copy in Heaven. So, if you read an Arabic Koran, you are actually reading the Word of God.
Are the Muslims wrong? Well, you would think so, because no book can superceed the Bible. The Bible has been translated THOUSANDS of TIMES. Books have been added and removed from it. Todays Bible is quite different from one that people may have used, say 3000 years ago.
Even the New Testament has been altered in it's short existence. Read the Gnostic Gospels and other non-divinely inspired works and you'll see what I mean.
Before any Christian takes the Bible as the be-all and end-all of their faith, they should read some history of Bible and see what USED TO BE IN IT at one point.
Interpretation of the Bible is subjective.
My #! case and point is a wonderful quote from the New Testament about marriage "What God has put together, let no man break apart!" Other than the Catholics, there isn't a single Christian groups that is against divorce.
Also 'Do this in memory of me!" How many Christian groups do a consecration of the host?
The average Bible thumping creationist uses the pieces of the Bible he needs and ignores the rest.
I went through 8 years of Catholic School and 4 years of Catholic High School and a LOT about the Bible. I even took a course in College about the Bible as a piece of literature, and learned what books were removed and added over time.
My fascination with the Bible goes far beyond it's use to control free thinking by ultra-conservatives. I find a fascinating piece of historical record, with some historical fiction added.
A priest in my high school actually said "Genesis Chapter 1 was written to explain human origins to the simple mind of early Palestinian settlement, that in no way could comprehend the intricacies of science."
Hate to argue with you, but Evolution has actually been proven. We have known and proven micro evolution for decades, by observing such phenomenons as bacteria surviving antibiotic attack in a petri dish.
However, the tough one to prove has always been macro evolution, because it takes so damn long. But I think they proved it last year, from a very very long observation of some bird species, and within the scientists own life time, a new species emerged. I'll find a reference and post it when I can. Don't want to talk out my ass.
Even if it was not observed, the fossil evidence points a clearer dotted line to the existence of evolution than it does to creationism. Human texts can lie and be forged. Fossils usually can't (yeah, I know all about the Brontosaurus).
I was referring to one of the plaques in the photos that claims every species on the planet were vegetarians until Eve sinned.
I love the way these creationists turn around and always remember the story of Eve being made from Adam's rib, but never remember the line "Man and Woman, he made them together." There really are two different creation stories in the Bible, whether they want to admit it or not.
I was raised Catholic, and the Catholics have not actually come out against evolution, like some of the fundamental Christian churches have. Though I abhor the Catholic viewpoint on birth control, and don't quite get their stance on divorce, since they have annulments, I find a lot of the other stuff works for me.
I don't believe anyone should follow their religion 100%, because when you do that, you end up with a mess like Palestine.
Why do plants always get a bad wrap. Creationists (and certain militant vegetarians) seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to kill and eat plants, but it's not OK to kill animals. Well guess what people, plants happen to be ALIVE TOO. Not just that, but if you believe that God created all species on the planet, he made the plants too! Wouldn't the plants too be God's creatures, and wouldn't it be a sin to eat them?
You think life would be so damn peaceful if the whole planet were vegetarians? Man, the farting alone would double the damn greenhouse gases we're all so damn worried about....
Slashdot Mirror
Just sue them for ouright slander. Then they have to put up or shut up. Take the bull by the horns....
SCO went through this crap and lost in the end.
You know with Zenworks, I couldn't update through our work's authenticated proxy. But I could using Yast. Now that 10.3 is out, they ripped out Zenworks and somehow managed to break Yast updates through an authenticated proxy.
For years the record labels controlled the music business. They even had a firm grip on the record stores. And now, the tables are turned slightly. Apple is able to call at least some of the shots, and Universal hates it!
And Universal is very scared also. People hop on iTunes and buy music. iTunes tells them what the top sellers are. Heck, they grab podcasts instead of listening to radios. For a lot of people, iTunes is becoming their only interface to music. Soon the record label will be forgotten and iTunes will be remembered.
That's what Apple is hoping for. I really think they're planning to remake the record industry. I guarantee you that software is already done that goes directly from GarageBand or Logic Studio straight to the iTMS. No record label needed anymore.
The future of music doesn't involve record label. Record Labels were f*cked as soon as the CD-R came out.
Andy
Oh no. You got it all wrong. I want the physical cable to be controlled locally by the municipality. I want the SERVICE to come from some company.
Andy
Why for f*ck's sake do private companies still own the pipes that come into my house?? Shouldn't these pipes be fiber optic and owned by my local municipal government? That way I can pick any ISP, Phone or Television company I want to run to my house at the same blazing fast speed.
The Internet seriously went downhill after the NAPs were sold off.
As long as the phone companies and cable companies own these pipes, monopolies will exist forever.
Andy
You realized you used Microsoft and innovative in the same sentence?
What were you thinking?
Is that even possible??
Andy
For the life of me, I don't understand why people still keep using Office Suites for COLLABORATION. Every company on the planet should outright BAN Microsoft Access. Our MS Access issue has spiraled out of control to a point where we have THOUSANDS of little databases all over the place...
MS Word is fine for typing up letters, but documentation is better kept in a wiki somewhere, or a web based CMS, where versions can be tracked, the documentation can be indexed, and it can be searched.
Office is a crutch that people should be moving away from.
I hope the whole f***ing planet blocks ALL US IPs from getting to their sites. Maybe that will teach AT&T a lesson. Most first world nations offer 10 Mbit bidirectional pipes, some offer 100.
The net is neutral now, and I don't see anyone complaining, except for AT&T. Put on your big girl panties AT&T, and FIX YOUR BACKEND!
Andy
AT&T is saying that their existing customer base is getting crappy service because they don't have enough bandwidth to support their customer base. So, instead of, I don't know....dealing with the problem by making infrastructure changes they should have made 5-10 years ago, instead they want to charge content providers for access to their inadequate pipes.
With all the patching Automatic Update does, I'm surprised that Microsoft isn't all over a neutral net. They may have to pay a fortune to ISPs. Then again, they would just probably create a "Windows Update Pro" and charge users for "faster access" to updates.
Andy
I am sorry for the insult. I got this URL from digg.com and thought it was from Slashdot. The following link lists all the service plans:
t ml
http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.h
Andy
Well, if you actually went to the web site, you could click on the really big 'Family Plan' tab right there at the top of the page.... Andy
It's about time we had TV on-demand for everything. I have been seriously considering the AppleTV for this reason. If I buy only the shows I want to watch, then I could turn around and cut my satellite bill from $65 a month to about $20 a month. I just wish the shows were in xvid format. so I could take them anywhere.
My only current hangup is the 6 and 4 year old. Apple doesn't sell most of the stuff they want to watch on-demand.
Andy
Microsoft is "allowing" Linspire to use TrueType, a technology developed by and owned by Apple, Inc. Microsoft gets to use TrueType as part of it's patent cross-licensing deal with Apple. There is also a Postscript clone called TrueImage that Apple developed and no one uses any more.
Thing is, I believe in God. And I believe in the Gospels. I also believe in Evolution.
Evolution is not a religion. It never will be. The American Heritage Dictionary defines religion as :
"1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. 2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship."
Science attempts to explain the universe around us. There are rules which the Universe follows. Some of these rules are called by names such as Evolution, Physics, etc. Without any intervention on God's part, the Universe can only act a certain way, as defined by observed Laws and Theories.
To me personally, Science is an explanation of HOW God does the things he does. How does God makes new species? He uses Evolution to do it. He put the process of Evolution in motion, and here we are now, arguing the point.
This is the longest debate I have ever had with a creationist. Many have given up long before you did. I will sum up my personal beliefs in a some points, wait for your response, and then I think we need to let the topic lie as is.
My beliefs are as follows:
1. God exists. Jesus existed as a man and exists now in Heaven as God. I have no issue with this.
2. God calls everyone to worship him in their own way. The Muslim and Hebrew religions are no less valid that Christianity is. In the end, all 3 worship the same God, despite what anyone may believe. Every religion has it's radicals. Radical Christians bomb abortion clinics. Radical Muslims blow themselves up, and some radical Orthodox Jews have actually beaten people up for violating the sabbath.
2. The Bible, though a wise book, is not 100% true historic fact. Many of the very early books are merely a collection of old Hebrew religious fables. The creation story being one of them, since there are in fact TWO creation stories in the Bible. In one story God makes the animals first and then man and woman together. In the other story man is made first and the animals are made afterwards and given to Adam to name.
3. Scientific estimates about the age of the Earth and the Universe are probably pretty accurate. There is no reason to think they are not, since observable radioactive decay in recorded history has never even deviated once from predictions.
4. Evolution works and is God's creation. He created evolution and it has created the biodiversity that is on the planet. Evolution did start millions of years ago and is still working now.
5. We both really need to get lives. Agreeing to disagree is a simple answer. Neither of us will be swayed by the other's values and beliefs, as interesting as we might find them.
There, now I will let it drop. Feel free to respond and get the last word in.
Every textbook I used in school started off with 'Scientists believe that..." Which is good enough for me.
Extrapolation is part of every science out there. Hell it is part of religion. We use a set of LAWS that are thousands of years old (The Ten Commandments) to govern our lives. Moses got them on the mountain, but no one alive now SAW Moses get them. No one here can confirm that there were no transcription errors when they were copied from the tablets. The whole point to theories is that scientists come up with an idea of how something works through observation. Other scientists test that idea to the best of their ability, and decided if they like it or now. Others try to disprove it. Once a theory is 100% proven, then it becomes a law (such as the Law of Gravity.) Until someone concretely disproves evolution, it will stay a scientifically taught theory, and it's going to take more than a 6000 year old book to disprove it.
Evolution and adaptation are two entirely different things. Adaptation is in no way genetically linked, the way evolution. Just because an organism can adapt to an environment does not make it evolve. For it to evolve, it must have a unique genetic characteristic that gives it a survival advantage over other organisms in it's species.
Gravity is automatically created when a body begins to spin. You're right. No one knows where gravity came from. And we probably never will. it's one of the many forces out there in the universe that governs how bodies moves. Personally, I could care less. I hate Physics. Let them come up with the best possible explanation of where gravity comes from and present it in science class.
In the end, what it comes down to, is God will have no place in the science class until someone proves he definitely exists. Or he shows up and says hello. Problem is, since the resurrection, God has definitely taken a hands off approach to this planet. In Old Testament biblical times, God was poking his nose in all the time. Now he stays ominously quiet.
I also have issues with God revealing himself only to the Jews early on. I think that was rather selfish of him.
Ok, here is where I think a major problem occurs. Nowhere does evolution imply the Earth was Billions of years old. Evolution is a simple theory about how one species can evolve into another completely different species. Darwin didn't even know about GENETICS to understand HOW Evolution occurred. He just saw from various observations of the known world that a process called Evolution made sense to him, so he came up with the theory.
Nowhere does Evolution state the Earth is millions of years old. Nowhere does Evolution talk about a "primordial soup" from which amino acids formed. Evolution doesn't even talk about the Big Bang. Evolution DOES however, try to explain how a woolly mammoth changed into an Asian Elephant over time.
Heck, the creationist museum itself uses evolution right on a wall plaque in the museum, showing how animals are given the ability to adapt. The fifth picture on this page clearly shows animals evolving after the great flood.
Scientists have, for years, used radioactive dating to determine the age of fossils and the Earth itself. Creationists claim that we cannot use this, because that constant radioactive decay is only a theory, because no one can observe radioactive decay over millions of years. Well, that may be so, but from observation of radioactive elements over 100 years or so, no one has EVER seen any fluctuation in the rate of radioactive decay. This is observable and recorded. What proof is there that the Earth was created 6,000 years ago other than the Bible?
Let me list for you some theories taught in current science:
How much of this stuff should not be taught in science class? By your definition, none of it. Can you imagine a Biology class where cells can't be discussed? Or a Chemistry class without a Periodic Table of Elements.
Theory has it's place in Science. Religion does not. You want creationism taught in school, write a paper, get it peer reviewed, get it published and THEN we can talk about in science. Heck, get the Bible peer reviewed. They are A LOT of religious scientists out there.
The one last thing to think about is this: the theory of evolution, as it is taught now with genetics, is very complex. It requires a lot of time. The THEORY of creationism is really quite simple. 6,000 years ago God made everything in 7 biblical days in a certain order. You discuss the order, you discuss why creationists feel the earth is 6,000 years old and you're pretty much done. This is no offense to the creationists belief. If it was taught in school, it would get about 15-20 minutes of time. Evolution would get about a week. And this, would again piss of creationists as not giving equal time to both theories. On top of that, if you want to teach creationism in school, you would need to teach every single religion's creation theory. not just the Jewish one.
Oh, and make no mistake, the current creationist theory was BORROWED from the Jews, and as far as I am concerned, the only one qualified to discuss it, or justify it, is a fully bona-fide rabbi. I say that as a proud Catholic
Evolution is a THEORY. Science is made up of theories. And Evolution, as one of MANY scientific theories, has a place in the science classroom. Evolution IN NO WAY conflicts with belief in God. Hundreds of Christian churches around the country celebrated Darwin's Birthday.
I have no issue at all believing that God started the Universe. It's really the only thing that makes sense. I have a huge issue believing that he takes an active involvement in every singler little tiny thing that happens here. That would make for a very busy God. If that really were true, there would be no need to pray. After all, you pray to get God's attention
I do admit that a lot of atheists use Evolution as some kind of dogma for the fact that God does not exist. However, nowhere in the classroom of any school where I was ever taught was there ever made mention of the fact that God does not exist solely based on the Theory of Evolution. For that matter, there has never been ANY anti-God propaganda by any science teacher, that, my wife, my parents or my children have experienced.
If you believe that Evolution is some kind of state sanctioned religion, then you have to believe that ALL OF SCIENCE is state sanctioned religion, and we should go back to the days of witch doctors and potion cures.
Well, if the Bible didn't contradict itself, that would be fine, but first we have man walking around and lonely, so God makes Eve from Adam's rib. Then in the next chapter we have God making man and woman together. Which is it? How are we to believe in biblical creation, when the Bible can't keep it right.
Secondly, evolution is not some kind of Dogma that is a state sanctioned religion. Evolution is SCIENCE, plain and simple and belongs in Science class. Creationism belongs in RELIGION class. Personally, I have NO ISSUE WHATSOEVER with religion being taught in public schools, as long as it is not mandatory. Also it should be offered in different flavors and picked up by the community.
So, you attend a public school and twice a week or so the local Catholic Priest (or Christian Minister), Jewish Rabbi, Muslim Cleric, Hindu Cleric or whatever, come in and hold a class that parents can voluntarily sign their kids up for. If your faith is represented, you can send your child there, if it's not, you can ask your cleric to come in and run classes. In THAT class you can teach all the creationism you want to kids, as long as you don't bad mouth the science teacher, and the science teacher agrees not to bad mouth the cleric.
Don't try to shoehorn creationism into science class, or ban evolution. Instead, get CLASSES ADDED to teach what you want to teach. Or if that doesn't suit your needs, go send your kid to private school.
The US has the 34th best schools in the world. The top 10 countries, use vouchers for their kids, so they can send them where they want. Most of those schools offer some kind of science class as well as a religious class to give children a well rounded education. We could learn from these other nations. Our school systems have much bigger problems in the US than whether or not evolution is being taught.
Andy
A lot of people think like you do. There is nothing wrong in believing in God. It's when you make rules about HOW to believe in God, and then FORCE other people to believe in and worship God the same way you do that issues arise. Look at the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the Communists (they forced Russian Orthodox down everyone's throat).
:-)
NOT believing in a God and forcing that view on everyone is also wrong, as mainland China did for years.
Can't we all just get along, and realize creationists need help.
Andy
What exactly does evolution have to do with without the activity of the mind. It's quite clear that DNA was around long before the human mind was.
I believe there may have been a Biblical flood, ISOLATED to the area where Noah lived. Good God. How exactly do you think Noah got Penguins, Polar Bears, Kargaroos (or any marsupial for that matter) on the ark?
Did the flood wipe out Dinosaurs because Noah couldn't fit them?
And, how exactly do you explain the AGE of fossils. Radioactive decay is a constant and used to measure the age of all sorts of things.
Don't try to shoehorn the Bible into explaining everything, because it really is quite lacking in a lot of areas, and is definitely open to interpretation. The Bible was written by PEOPLE and not by God himself. Heck, don't we believe Moses wrote the Torah himself. Moses was a MAN, not a god or demigod. And, guess what, people MAKE STUFF UP. The alter history to suit their needs.
Heck, the Muslims believe that the Koran is in Heaven and it is in Arabic, and that all the Korans here on Earth are copies of the one true copy in Heaven. So, if you read an Arabic Koran, you are actually reading the Word of God.
Are the Muslims wrong? Well, you would think so, because no book can superceed the Bible. The Bible has been translated THOUSANDS of TIMES. Books have been added and removed from it. Todays Bible is quite different from one that people may have used, say 3000 years ago.
Even the New Testament has been altered in it's short existence. Read the Gnostic Gospels and other non-divinely inspired works and you'll see what I mean.
Before any Christian takes the Bible as the be-all and end-all of their faith, they should read some history of Bible and see what USED TO BE IN IT at one point.
Interpretation of the Bible is subjective.
My #! case and point is a wonderful quote from the New Testament about marriage "What God has put together, let no man break apart!" Other than the Catholics, there isn't a single Christian groups that is against divorce.
Also 'Do this in memory of me!" How many Christian groups do a consecration of the host?
The average Bible thumping creationist uses the pieces of the Bible he needs and ignores the rest.
I went through 8 years of Catholic School and 4 years of Catholic High School and a LOT about the Bible. I even took a course in College about the Bible as a piece of literature, and learned what books were removed and added over time.
My fascination with the Bible goes far beyond it's use to control free thinking by ultra-conservatives. I find a fascinating piece of historical record, with some historical fiction added.
Andy
A priest in my high school actually said "Genesis Chapter 1 was written to explain human origins to the simple mind of early Palestinian settlement, that in no way could comprehend the intricacies of science."
Hate to argue with you, but Evolution has actually been proven. We have known and proven micro evolution for decades, by observing such phenomenons as bacteria surviving antibiotic attack in a petri dish.
However, the tough one to prove has always been macro evolution, because it takes so damn long. But I think they proved it last year, from a very very long observation of some bird species, and within the scientists own life time, a new species emerged. I'll find a reference and post it when I can. Don't want to talk out my ass.
Even if it was not observed, the fossil evidence points a clearer dotted line to the existence of evolution than it does to creationism. Human texts can lie and be forged. Fossils usually can't (yeah, I know all about the Brontosaurus).
Andy
I was referring to one of the plaques in the photos that claims every species on the planet were vegetarians until Eve sinned.
I love the way these creationists turn around and always remember the story of Eve being made from Adam's rib, but never remember the line "Man and Woman, he made them together." There really are two different creation stories in the Bible, whether they want to admit it or not.
I was raised Catholic, and the Catholics have not actually come out against evolution, like some of the fundamental Christian churches have. Though I abhor the Catholic viewpoint on birth control, and don't quite get their stance on divorce, since they have annulments, I find a lot of the other stuff works for me.
I don't believe anyone should follow their religion 100%, because when you do that, you end up with a mess like Palestine.
Call me a Catholic realist.
Why do plants always get a bad wrap. Creationists (and certain militant vegetarians) seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to kill and eat plants, but it's not OK to kill animals. Well guess what people, plants happen to be ALIVE TOO. Not just that, but if you believe that God created all species on the planet, he made the plants too! Wouldn't the plants too be God's creatures, and wouldn't it be a sin to eat them?
You think life would be so damn peaceful if the whole planet were vegetarians? Man, the farting alone would double the damn greenhouse gases we're all so damn worried about....
Andy