Re:I love win2k, I love Linux ! - Why use Lindows?
on
Lindows Reviewed
·
· Score: 2
Linux for the Server
Windows for the Desktop
I am just curious where this mentality comes from. (I am sure you'll get plenty of responses from a lot of users with their panties in a bunch about this, I'll try not to be one).
This whole "Desktop" idea has been idealized to no end, to the point of sounding like something so esoteric that only MS could ever hope to achieve it. That's just bollocks.
I don't know what "graphics guys" do, but let's take a look at what the vast majority of desktops out there do:
Email
Web
Word Processing
That is it! With a few additions here and there, that satisfies 80% of home users. And don't try to tell me that Mandrake (for example) doesn't do these things, or somehow does them inadequatly. KMail, Konqueror and KOffice do their job, do it well and are intuitive (as far as current desktop metahpores go) and easy to use. If this whole Linux "mystique" or FUD or whatever the hell it is, wasn't attached to Mandrake (for example), no one would even think of calling it somehow difficult to use.
I on the other hand (as probably most people here) am a more demanding user, being a developer and all, I need tools to do my job. I am sure I don't need to get into the whole thing over again, I'll just quote the guy who said "I tried using Windows, but it didn't come with a compiler - how am I supposed to do my job without a compiler?":)
Of course there are things that Windows does better - games get mentioned a lot, for one. I personally don't play games too much, and when a game is interesting enough for me to get it, often (not always) there is a Linux version (or it runs under WINE). Not to say that I can play every single game I want under Linux, but if I absolutely had to choose a single OS to use always this wouldn't be a deciding factor. That's just me of course.
In any case, I use Linux, I like Linux, and when I am using Windows, I miss Linux. Why is it that I am constantly told that I am somehow wrong about this, or am doing it for the wrong reasons? Is it just because MS bashing isn't popular anymore, but MS-bashing bashing is?
Anyway, on the other hand - I liked Win2K, I don't mind it now, but I know that were I to stick to the Windows world, I would be forced to "upgrade" eventually, and WinXP is just more than I can take.
Well, what if the "if" goes the other way? From the sound of it, Lindows is going to suck horribly, and do you really think our friend the "average user" will be able to distinguish Lindows from Linux? So, Lindows = teh bad => Linux = teh bad. I see this as a great chance for some really bad publicity.
This comes up a lot, and there's one distinction you don't make - from the way you put, it sounds as if novice users take easier to Windows than Linux, which is not quiet the case (I am talking about modern distributions here, you can argue until you are blue in the face that Linux is "hard to use" but it's simply not true anymore).
Had that person been using Mandrake for the last few years (and the basic operation has been drummed into them) and you gave them WinXP, they would be just as confused. (I personally can't really see this either way, Mandrake looks almost exactly like Windows from the default install, down to task-bar icons being in the same place and looking similar - but hey, users are users).
The problem here is that Linux doesn't have to be "as good as Windows" with the average user, it has to be a lot better, because most users are used to Windows, and it's not a matter of learning something new (like the first time they used Windows) but rather converting from something they are used to. That, or it can just try to mimic Windows as much as possible (at which point the idea becomes just to save money or something, and that's just sad).
Personally, I couldn't care less about the coveted "mainstream user" - I am not in a position where I have to sell (figuratively or literally) Linux to anyone, and I do know my way around computers, so I use what I like. I just hope that this chase after "deep desktop penetration" or whatever the buzzword of the day is, doesn't interfere with putting out things that I like - which are definitely not the same as our favorite person, the "user"
Re:So, wait a second...Yeah Right!
on
Lindows Reviewed
·
· Score: 2
e-commerce company that offeres php/mysql solutions
And you expect us to take you seriously?:)
btw, there's a neat word trick here - "Linux" crashes very, very, very rarely, but "Linux Systems" have been known to, and it's usually X that crashes. The user of course wouldn't see that difference, but only that the computer is "frozen" (there is actually a real difference here, in that you often can login remotely and kill X, but the people we are talking about usually don't have 5 computers on their home network)
So for Linux to compete with Windows, what's needed is a somewhat crap Linux distro?
I am sorry, but I just don't see the point of the whole thing - pay for an OS (something like $100?), then pay the bloody ridiculous prices for MS Office, all to run it very poorly and very slowly.
All I can see this doing is convincing people that it is worth it to pay for Windows, by showing them how crap it is otherwise.
Using Linux to run MS Office is just a dumb idea in the first place - MS interoperation is what's needed, MS emulation will just suck horribly.
Isn't there very little difference in the performance of the P4 between RDRAM and the new DDR chipsets? At least that's the impression I got from reading a few reviews (not that I've dedicated much time to this).
I don't know, I still would not even consider buying a Rambus based system - but I guess this whole righteous outrage thing lasted longer with me than most others.
Hmm... I seem to recall a few places mentioning some stability issues with the P4, sorry I couldn't be more specific, but just saying I didn't get the same "like a rock" impression.
On the other hand, I've heard plenty of bitching about Athlon stability, all I can offer here is my personal experience - during the year or so that I've had this system (T'Bird 1.2 + ABIT KT7) it's locked up twice - once when I naively tried to get my Vortex 2 working (I run Linux) and the other was one of my Maxtors acting up with the Promise controller - seems to be pretty common too.
In other words, in a year of heavy use - pretty much on during the day, and frequently left on over nights - I've never heard a peep of instability from anything CPU/Platform related. Maybe I got lucky, maybe the good RAM makes a difference (not like you have to pay for it nowadays), but that's been my experience.
...a long delayed sequel (prequel, whatever) to a popular movie (or series of movies) that didn't suck horribly and completely diappoint everyone, ever? I really am curious, if someone can come up with one - maybe it's just impossible to do that.
Oh, and Ford is old... come to think of it, I don't see why 50 people have to post that with some lame joke about medicine in the "proposed title"
The Matrix was cool and everything, but that whole "human battery" idea is just plain stupid. It's gotta be the least efficient method of getting energy one can think of, plus the most absurdly convoluted way of going about it.
Besides, it'd be a lot cheaper for them to build a few fusion reactors here and there, than to pay AOL-TimeWarner-Microsoft-Vivendi (face it, it's the future) licensing fees for the Matrix content and software. Can you imagine the monthly bills for MS Matrix Enterprise Edition with a few billion "seats"? And they probably don't sell too much ad space, so the programming/content costs would be astronomical.
Yeah, yeah, off topic - how bloody interesting is Amazon.com, anyway? Oh, ok - real shame about that Amazon.com profit! There, its on topic - happy now?
Yep, I absolutely love their website, and use it to research all sorts of things before I buy.
Mind you I don't actually buy anything from them (that whole thing about them telling me they'll be selling my personal info to others, just not sitting well), but I do use their website alot.
Or, the whole bloody thing can be put into read-only CVS, which would only update what's necessary and not force people to apply 12 patches one after another - why bother coming up with sequential patch-applying schemes, when the work's been done already?
Slashdot Mirror
Windows for the Desktop
I am just curious where this mentality comes from. (I am sure you'll get plenty of responses from a lot of users with their panties in a bunch about this, I'll try not to be one).
This whole "Desktop" idea has been idealized to no end, to the point of sounding like something so esoteric that only MS could ever hope to achieve it. That's just bollocks.
I don't know what "graphics guys" do, but let's take a look at what the vast majority of desktops out there do:
- Email
- Web
- Word Processing
That is it! With a few additions here and there, that satisfies 80% of home users. And don't try to tell me that Mandrake (for example) doesn't do these things, or somehow does them inadequatly. KMail, Konqueror and KOffice do their job, do it well and are intuitive (as far as current desktop metahpores go) and easy to use. If this whole Linux "mystique" or FUD or whatever the hell it is, wasn't attached to Mandrake (for example), no one would even think of calling it somehow difficult to use.I on the other hand (as probably most people here) am a more demanding user, being a developer and all, I need tools to do my job. I am sure I don't need to get into the whole thing over again, I'll just quote the guy who said "I tried using Windows, but it didn't come with a compiler - how am I supposed to do my job without a compiler?" :)
Of course there are things that Windows does better - games get mentioned a lot, for one. I personally don't play games too much, and when a game is interesting enough for me to get it, often (not always) there is a Linux version (or it runs under WINE). Not to say that I can play every single game I want under Linux, but if I absolutely had to choose a single OS to use always this wouldn't be a deciding factor. That's just me of course.
In any case, I use Linux, I like Linux, and when I am using Windows, I miss Linux. Why is it that I am constantly told that I am somehow wrong about this, or am doing it for the wrong reasons? Is it just because MS bashing isn't popular anymore, but MS-bashing bashing is?
Anyway, on the other hand - I liked Win2K, I don't mind it now, but I know that were I to stick to the Windows world, I would be forced to "upgrade" eventually, and WinXP is just more than I can take.
Well, what if the "if" goes the other way? From the sound of it, Lindows is going to suck horribly, and do you really think our friend the "average user" will be able to distinguish Lindows from Linux? So, Lindows = teh bad => Linux = teh bad. I see this as a great chance for some really bad publicity.
Had that person been using Mandrake for the last few years (and the basic operation has been drummed into them) and you gave them WinXP, they would be just as confused. (I personally can't really see this either way, Mandrake looks almost exactly like Windows from the default install, down to task-bar icons being in the same place and looking similar - but hey, users are users).
The problem here is that Linux doesn't have to be "as good as Windows" with the average user, it has to be a lot better, because most users are used to Windows, and it's not a matter of learning something new (like the first time they used Windows) but rather converting from something they are used to. That, or it can just try to mimic Windows as much as possible (at which point the idea becomes just to save money or something, and that's just sad).
Personally, I couldn't care less about the coveted "mainstream user" - I am not in a position where I have to sell (figuratively or literally) Linux to anyone, and I do know my way around computers, so I use what I like. I just hope that this chase after "deep desktop penetration" or whatever the buzzword of the day is, doesn't interfere with putting out things that I like - which are definitely not the same as our favorite person, the "user"
And you expect us to take you seriously? :)
btw, there's a neat word trick here - "Linux" crashes very, very, very rarely, but "Linux Systems" have been known to, and it's usually X that crashes. The user of course wouldn't see that difference, but only that the computer is "frozen" (there is actually a real difference here, in that you often can login remotely and kill X, but the people we are talking about usually don't have 5 computers on their home network)
mostly.
There are plenty of people who go through "crazy" things to avoid MS, but not a single one of them is interested in Lindows.
I am sorry, but I just don't see the point of the whole thing - pay for an OS (something like $100?), then pay the bloody ridiculous prices for MS Office, all to run it very poorly and very slowly.
All I can see this doing is convincing people that it is worth it to pay for Windows, by showing them how crap it is otherwise.
Using Linux to run MS Office is just a dumb idea in the first place - MS interoperation is what's needed, MS emulation will just suck horribly.
I'd say the easiest way is to get the ISOs and upgrade to Mandrake 8.1 - but that's just me.
Besides KDE has Klipper, Windows has Clippy - nuff said.
(win95,win98,winME,winXP - all bugfixes for win3.1)
Damn, you're a fucking moron.
Yeah, the AC is right - what the hell did they fix?? ;)
(the awesome power or the winking face should negate most of the flamebait effect)
Toilets goddamnit, toilets! That is by far the best application I can find for this.
It would also have to be intelligent enough to direct you to a deserted alley when no public restrooms are available in the vicinity.
Oh, and for European public restrooms, I guess some sort of "gay sex/no gay sex" option would be nice.
Was hoping to upgrade this summer...
Oh and so we are on topic: it sure is interesting about all them Athlon vs. P4 comparisons!
I've heard of one, and it affected both Linux and Windows, what are the others?
Just wondering what I should watch out for...
Hmm... it was a tie at 1.5 vs 2.0 GHz with both processors winning in the areas where they always win, what do you think it's gonna be at 1.66 vs 2.2?
Long Pipeline == High Clock == Layman Buy!
And hey, it worked.
(sure call it flamebait if it so seems to you, it is nonetheless what I think; not that I am original in any way about it)
I don't know, I still would not even consider buying a Rambus based system - but I guess this whole righteous outrage thing lasted longer with me than most others.
Hmm... I seem to recall a few places mentioning some stability issues with the P4, sorry I couldn't be more specific, but just saying I didn't get the same "like a rock" impression.
On the other hand, I've heard plenty of bitching about Athlon stability, all I can offer here is my personal experience - during the year or so that I've had this system (T'Bird 1.2 + ABIT KT7) it's locked up twice - once when I naively tried to get my Vortex 2 working (I run Linux) and the other was one of my Maxtors acting up with the Promise controller - seems to be pretty common too.
In other words, in a year of heavy use - pretty much on during the day, and frequently left on over nights - I've never heard a peep of instability from anything CPU/Platform related. Maybe I got lucky, maybe the good RAM makes a difference (not like you have to pay for it nowadays), but that's been my experience.
...a long delayed sequel (prequel, whatever) to a popular movie (or series of movies) that didn't suck horribly and completely diappoint everyone, ever? I really am curious, if someone can come up with one - maybe it's just impossible to do that.
Oh, and Ford is old... come to think of it, I don't see why 50 people have to post that with some lame joke about medicine in the "proposed title"
Try searching for "ripping off BBSpot" next.
Why is it that so many people think that the internet is censored in Australia? Websites hosted in Australia are, not the net.
Did you know that it is illegal to attempt to compete against the USPS with mail delivery
I am still waiting to see how that whole Trystero thing pans out...
W.A.S.T.E.
The Matrix was cool and everything, but that whole "human battery" idea is just plain stupid. It's gotta be the least efficient method of getting energy one can think of, plus the most absurdly convoluted way of going about it.
Besides, it'd be a lot cheaper for them to build a few fusion reactors here and there, than to pay AOL-TimeWarner-Microsoft-Vivendi (face it, it's the future) licensing fees for the Matrix content and software. Can you imagine the monthly bills for MS Matrix Enterprise Edition with a few billion "seats"? And they probably don't sell too much ad space, so the programming/content costs would be astronomical.
Yeah, yeah, off topic - how bloody interesting is Amazon.com, anyway? Oh, ok - real shame about that Amazon.com profit! There, its on topic - happy now?
Yep, I absolutely love their website, and use it to research all sorts of things before I buy.
Mind you I don't actually buy anything from them (that whole thing about them telling me they'll be selling my personal info to others, just not sitting well), but I do use their website alot.
Or, the whole bloody thing can be put into read-only CVS, which would only update what's necessary and not force people to apply 12 patches one after another - why bother coming up with sequential patch-applying schemes, when the work's been done already?
A legitimate use for P2P? Unpossible! ;)