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Microsoft Promotions Turn Up in USPS Offices
Several readers, like this Anonymous Coward, have written with links to a letter from Cliff Crouch on macintouch.com. "I stumbled across this letter submitted to a web site I frequent. Apparently Microsoft has promotional displays with free WindowsXP promotional software in U.S. Post Offices."
First Fedex, now Microsoft?
Microsoft has a large advertising budget. So what are you so riled up about?
Freebies are old news, Microsoft news isn't always exciting either.. they've had downloadable freebies (IE, web fonts) for ages now so even the combination isn't really new.
Move on, nothing to see here.
Well, they probably put it in the post office to capture back the customers they lost when their email went down from receiving too many files "to have your advice." They want to get a chance to recapture their customers when they head off to the post office to send their mail that way instead.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
News for nerds: Signage in a post office. Yeah...
Stuff that matters: MS advertising in post offices. Indeed, the world will never be the same.
For better or worse, the US government is large. In fact, it is HUGE. It would be impossible for every decision to be internally consistent in any organziation this size. This is why you always see those exposes on ABC and the like saying Branch A of govt does this and that while Branch B seems to be doing someething flying in the face of it. Its not necessarily that the govt. are hypocrites, all it is is a aggregate of people like you and I. So in this case, its not really the worst thing in the world. And what happend to "innocent until proven guilty"?
It's not the fact that they are giving away Demos, it's the place that the demos are being placed. A tie-in with a US Government agency is new.
This just in from the Associated Press:
The USPS has advertisements up in (gasp!) the Post Office! Ads will promote the various stamps offered by the federal business, as well as provide people with ideas for valuable services that they may have not known about prior to seeing the ads.
Really... what is the big deal here, and WHY is this news? Moreover, what if it was Linux, the God of Slashdot, that made an appearance in the Post Office? I bet the article would read something like "LINUX STORMS THE POSTAL SERVICE - OPEN SOURCE ON THE RISE! PRAISE LINUS AND GNU!"
Please.... give me a break. The FUD is out of control.
Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.
With my luck with moderators I will prob end up with -500 notfunnygoburninhell for this, but what the hell, I think it is a great mental picture
Seriously, who cares? I bet if RHAT paid USPS enough, they'd put their CDs out too.
sulli
RTFJ.
You're simply naive. Last time I checked advertising was legal, even for Microsoft.
- adam
Perhaps I'm missunderstanding, but M$ is giving Xp away for free?
Or are they giving software that runs on XP away for free?
Which one?
Heh, I wished they'd mail me a new Debian CD... I don't free like burning one... =)
Oh well, I can suffer 10 Minutes of torturous burning for a lifetime of joy. =)
Location: Mt. Xinu
I think this is the first time I have seen a commercial product in no way related to mail advertised in a post office. Microsoft is now using the government to advertise its products. There is a distinct difference between something like this, and simply mailing a CD to you. This makes it seems like the USPS, and hence the federal government, is trying to sell you Microsoft products. This is very disturbing.
"You think that's air you're breathing now?"
usps.gov has a marketing deal with Microsoft apparently. Their Web-Based Solutions page, accessable from the main usps.gov page, is "Powered by Microsoft bCentral", and promotes subscriptions to Microsoft services.
Maybe we need to add "separation of corporation and state" to our "separation of church and state" in the constitution?
Here in Australia, anyone can stick things in post offices if they pay for it. There are all sorts of brochures and things, plus most of the larger ISPs and phone companies have free samplers and recharge kits there.
I assume Microsoft's deal isn't an exclusive arrangement?
Shocked to find advertising going on here. The next thing you know I'll be getting unsolicited commercial snail mail from local retailers. This must be stopped!
From now on I'm only buying from companies that don't advertise or give away freebies. Novell is probably the best bet. They've shown a complete inability to market Netware for years now.
--Shoeboy
Everytime I buy a video game magazine, or go to babbages I get a free demo cd of some sort. AOL sends me 3000 a week. Who really cares if microsoft tries to advertise through the post office. I dislike Microsoft somewhat as well, but I assure you, my reasons are better than this.
How does a demo of an operating system work anyway? I would say that only the computer saavy would want to install a trial of an operating system. It's definitely not for the average user.. Are they including VMWare or something? At least that way you wouldn't have to dual-boot your existing home system.
I hate M$ same as everybody else but who cares? They paid some dough and the post office put up a display. Anybody could do it if they had the money.
The Post Office isn't some holy place, it's barely connected with the government, and hasn't received any tax dollars since Nixon. It's basically a private organization.
When you see Windows product placement in, say, a courtroom, that's when I'd start to worry....
How much of this marketing ploy will MS try to pass off as "restitution"?
Since when giving away free demos is forbidden ? Is that a demo version of the OS or a demo cd with informations about the OS ? IBM used to give away OS/2 CDs for free in italy...
Is your deal, Timothy? Did something crawl up your ass and plant the idea directly in your mind that this is fucking news?
Well, okay maybe it's not hell yet, but I'll know I'm in hell when the Johova's Witnesses start going door to door and handing out MS CD-ROM's.
Did I read that correctly? Who would actually demo an OS?... they are not exactly the easiest thing to uninstall (maybe that is the rub after the "demo period" ends... for only $99 you can restore your PC to working condition).
It still is a very strange marketing ploy when you consider WHY people upgrade OSes... it is generally not an impulse move. Half the outboard hardware on my DAW is not yet supported by XP.
Those that suggest you "dance like no one is watching" really want to see you make a complete fool of yourself.
The post office is crawling with viruses these days.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
First anthrax in the mail and now XP CD's. The terrorists must be stopped!
so why not produce a nice pile of SuSE cd's and have the "dump" say , not a demo the full real operating system... Linux! for FREE!" I'd suggest redhat but that takes 2 cd's now, and slackware is too technical.
that'll take a helluva lot of steam out of microsoft's campain.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I 'll first admit that I don't know if this is legal or not, but I hate to think that tax dollars are being used to rent a space for Microsoft to do their promotions in such a prominent location.
I'd complain to your postmaster and probably a letter to the editor of your local paper. Leave out any anti-MS rant, just complain that this is not the sort of thing that they should be doing with public space.
If that post office is anything like the ones I've had to use, they have a fairly captive audience, bored to tears waiting in line. Microsoft brochures would probably actually get *read* there (Think of the money that supermarkets must get paid to feature items in the checkout lanes - gum, candy, tabloids, etc.)
If you really care, see if MS paid money to do this, and to whom...
Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo
-- My Weblog.
Why would the Post Office let a competitor advertise in their building? I'm sure whoever uses XP will use email, which means less snail mail for the Post Office to deliver.
... is the government trying to decrease the public's need for snail mail so they can lay off postal workers, or are they smart enough to know that XP is such a poor, insecure excuse for an OS that they know it'll crash and people will go back to snail mail and increase their business?
So
The CDs are free. Take them all.
Once you have a few hundred of them, you can gather them together with the myriad AOL CDs in your drawer and enjoy a nice day of CD Craft Fun as suggested here, here and here.
Good luck.
-Rothfuss
I really don't care if MS advertises in post offices. What piques my curiosity, though, is what were / are government agencies' policies on advertising?
:)? Could an advertsising policy cause bias in a government agency like campaign contributions cause in politics?
I know that the MA Registry now allows advertising at their sites (somthing for people to look at during the long waits). It wasn't that way too long ago. . .
I have never seen an advertisment in a post office that did not either promote USPS's services or was somthing about taxes.
Was this by design, or was it that no one thought of advertising in a post office before
It's not radical or life-changing, but it does have a large curiosity factor that I could not find much info on. . .
Hmm.. Now if this catches on, I'll have to convert my AOL cd launcher to an XP cd launcher.
No real difference, only it'll be even more deadly, so I'll have to install a safety...
Tim Dorr
Owner/Manger
A Small Orange
Yah, I picked up a demo cd for kicks about 2 weeks ago at my postoffice (Eden Prairie, MN - 55344).
Kinda weird if you ask me... I wonder how much M$ had to pay for that display.
I asked about them when I was at the local Post Office about two months ago...
The response I got was that none of the money to run the Post Office comes from tax dollars, and they were paying for the space. This is part of the semi-privatization of the Post Office, apparently.
It's not long until we're going to be seeing AOL and Microsoft stamps, probably...
pretty soon they will be coming out with a microsoft stamp. You can lick it, but you probably don't want to because you don't know whats in the glue. It will stay attached to the letter for a year, after which you have to pay an additonal 34 cents to reattach it. Ummm...the elvis stamp sues it for taking over all other stamps. Man, this was a stupid idea.
You know, Windows XP doesn't feel as good as CmdrTaco's small penis going up my ass.
Wait, make that my wee wee hole.
- The BOFH Troll
If the USPS were sold off for scrap, I wouldn't care who they let advertize in their buildnigs. I object to my money being used to pay for buildings in which Microsoft gets to advertize.
The problem is that if I object by taking my money elsewhere, the TaxManCommith and I get taken away in chains while my money is removed and used against my will anyway.
Now THAT is monopoly power. Too bad congress is exempt from their own anti-trust laws.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
I saw this display, and now after reading this post I must ask, "What does it matter?" It's not as if MS is advertising in your local city hall or courthouse. It's the post office... A branch of the government that isn't responsible for anything remotely important (yes, I realize mail delivery is important, but it's not going to make or break my life/freedom either way).
Not only that, but it's a branch of the government that's entirely self-sufficient. Not one red cent comes from taxpayers. So again I ask, what does it matter?
Man, the "devious" flag just raised on this one. Maybe I can grab all the CD's, bring them home and burn new ones, chock full'of nice little additions...viruses, bugs, flaws; then put them back, shrinkwrapped and ready to go. "Hello, Microsoft? I just installed this XP promo and every time I boot up it invokes the name of Satan". Or, "sweet jesus, what's with all the penguins on my screen!?". Hey, maybe something as simple as a new office assistant that offers advice every 15 seconds.
And for the smartasses...yes, new bugs over the ones already on there. I guess this would work with those AOL promo's too...but since no one would ever install those (as they already have 500) it wouldn't be as fulfilling.
Advertising with the post office isn't new. Ever change your address? This is hardly noteworthy.
The postal worker in the article says that FedEx and UPS are doing the same thing. Why should the USPS not take a check to provide ad space?
It'll help keep stamps cheap.
sig is
Anyone actual get one of these cds and figure out what's on them? Sounds like just a promotional CD to me, not any actual copy of XP.
Tim Dorr
Owner/Manger
A Small Orange
I'm not a lawer, so I want to know, is this legal? Regardless that they are giving it away, it's still a advertisement, and the USPS is government funded, and regulated, even if it isn't government owend.
;-)
Maybe a Lam.. er, Lawyer could help me out.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
I could be just too cynical
Umm... the Post Office doesn't take your tax dollars any more. Hasn't for decades. They're entirely self-funded.
If you don't like the way the USPS does business, I suggest you boycott buying stamps and sending stuff US Priority Mail.
Hmm, maybe all these free OS's (Linux, FreeBSD, etc. etc.) are getting to them even more than they are letting on! Heh heh.
:)
The USPS is a business like any other. Sure, they have some governmental influence, both ways, but if someone wants to pay them to put up posters.... why not?
And besides.. asking clerks about it won't get you very far. I'm surprised that your post office wasn't so busy that the clerk actually had enough time to ask you if there was anything else you needed.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
They got those customers back as soon as the people realized getting "files for advice" in the mail is much less worse than getting powder.
You're going to burn in Hell for spelling God's nickname wrong.
Nothing more.
I'm looking forward to the "Great Operating Systems of the 20th Century" stamp series sponsored by Microsoft.
There will be stamps celebrating such great operating systems as
Windows 3
Windows 3.1
Windows 3.11
Windows NT 3.5
Windows NT 3.51
Windows NT 4.0
Windows 95
Windows 98
and
Windows 2000
Then of course there will be a variety of service packs for the 1 cent stamps.
-Rothfuss
another example of f***ed government. You pay for a stamp to send mail. You pay for a box to receive mail. You subsidize spammy junk mail catalogs because companies get favorable bulk mail rates. And now you have to veiw adds while you stand in line or check your box.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
Hukked on foniks wurkd phor mee!
the USPS is a public corperation. they need to make money and now they have turned to advertizing. PBS does this...infact, I have seen PBS shows with a 30 second comercial of Microsoft before it begins....it was one of those technicalish shows like Nova or somthing.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
A few hundred informationally-useless polycarbonate discs?
Seriously, I'd like to find a reasonable use for worthless CDroms, seeing as so many corporations like to give away so many of them.
Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random numbers is, of course, in a state of sin.-John von Neumann
Many years ago, I received a Win 98 demo with a magazine. I thought, wow, free OS!
Well, it was a _movie_ of Windows 98 in action; a demonstration of the product and not the actual product itself.
Which is probably what this will be.
Just the disks I have on hand... I'll make 10 copies of Red Hat, 10 copies of Mandrake, 10 copies of Suse, trek on down to the post office tomorrow and stuff them in the Microsoft ad. I encourage everyone to do the same :)
Maybe scribble a sign overhead and tape it to the MS ad. "...Or use Linux!"
decorate my wall with free XP CDs, together with AOL floor floppy tiles.
Granted I have been a redhat critic of late but I do have a serious question. what tools or help does redhat give to linux advocates to "get the word out". can I request 100 bulk CD's to give out? how about tri-fold pamphlets? MS is marketing like mad and the largest Linux purveyor sits quietly and only advertises in technical journals or the linux mag's.
what if my LUG wants to stand on corners and give out linux cd's? I agree that RH7.2 is the easiest that even a non-computer user can install and use it.
so what can I do to get it out there? and if redhat wont help what other distros will help by supplying bulk cd's? anyone?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The display would be next to the photos of those really nice people the police are looking for.
Get a free ipod.
PR release:
Microsoft announced today the acquisition of the United Postal Service. "It's a great innovation, that we know our customers will enjoy. Instead of being hassled by paper communication, our MSN and Hotmail service will provide all means of communication for the people of the US in a safe and secure way." said Microsoft's co-founder Bill Gates.
While many questions have risen regarding the ethical and legal considerations, Microsoft was confident of the acceptance of their new program. With a surprise backer in the federal government, Microsofts program received considerable support from a Mr. DCS1000. Security considerations also came into play with the recent anthrax scares.
The program launches tomorrow, with the initial transfer of all US citizens to the new MS PassportPlus for national identification (Win95/NT/98/2000/XP compatible). A new email activation program will also initiate, offering enhanced security against terrorist hackers sendign unauthorized digital signals.
Padded mailer sent from CA to CO, still not there after one week
Package sent from NV to CA, took 3 weeks
Letter from Singapore, overdue
I've never had so much trouble with USPS.
"Hey, maybe we could make a BSoD stamp, Jerry!"
"Shut up and reboot, the line is growing restive!"
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny, Wile E. Coyote. They're all there. They've done that for years.
I've seen American Express application forms at the Post Office for as long as I can remember.
I really don't see much wrong with this.
Remeber: the faster you go the more you get there without the definitive exploratory symposium of the second part. Cast not stones upon the wind for they are round, square, and irregular at intervals unknown to man.
This sig intentionally Left Bank.
There is still a big difference between a free OS and a free OS.
I don't get all the complaints. Why is this a bad thing? Many organizations use the Post Office for advertising. When was the last time you got third class mail? Why isn't everyone complaing that their tax dollars are being wasted by sending them junk mail? For all I care, the Post Office could plaster their walls with ads.
All interested readers should go to their local USPS immediately and pick up the free coasters and trashcan protectors Microsoft is distributing.
So basically what you are saying is:
- Microsoft settled (out of court)
- They are blowing it in our face.
- You won't see another monopoly suit
- Prices will rise. Unlike #2's stocks.
- If you got the money you got the rights.
hehe Law is indeed equal to money.
God. I hope this isn't true.
Regardless of your opinions of Microsoft, it's advertising. AOL has done the same for years, leaving their CDs or floppy disks everywhere imaginable.
So MS puts posters in CDs into a USPS office? Big deal. It's not like you can argue that the USPS is a government office and the government is promoting it, the USPS is a government-contracted company, just look it up in your history book.
If the USPS agrees to hang the signs, then they're there. Personally, either someone will or won't upgrade, and a nifty poster in a post office won't influence too many people, and certainly not the type who would use Linux.
Call me a troll for not flaming Microsoft, but it's just marketing, not monopolistic business tactics. And hell, maybe the cost of postage will go down with the money that MS gives the USPS for putting the posters.
Gawyn
Freedom of Speech?
The post office is trying to make money. How sad for them.
Usually when you see posters on post offices, they feature people who steal valuable resources from citizens or cause them irreperable harm. Usually these people are regarded as being extremely dangerous and should be avoided at all costs
I'd say that adequately pegs XP.
Here ya go!
I'm not really a web designer, I just play one on the Internet.
Why do you suppose the post office is advertising for Microsoft? Is it a conspiracy designed to kill Linux?
No, the truth is, Microsoft can advertise Windows XP because they have a large advertising budget. Linux doesn't get advertised nearly as much because Red Hat, Debian, Suse, Slackware, etc. are all operating on a very thin profit margin and can't afford the kind of advertising that Microsoft can.
Now, the question as to whether the US Postal System should endorse or provide a venue for the promotion of Windows XP is another issue altogether. But it is important to realize that without Microsoft's advertising budget, this wouldn't ever have happened.
Christ...
ass. no contest.
Just another criminal hanging on the Post Office wall. What's so unusual about that?
I don't see violation here. You see, the post office delivers mail for a nominal fee and it even does this for large corporations. In fact, there are special bulk mail processing facilities to distribute corporate bulk mail and the post office even seeks out business relationships with corporations to distribute thier mail (*gasp*).
At worst there's a variation on the theme of "mail delivery". At best, I didn't open up my mail box to find another peice of anonymous corporate crap inside it.
AOL frisbee anyone?
Several readers, like this Anonymous Coward, have written with links to a letter from Eric Raymond on linuxtoday.com. "I stumbled across this letter submitted to a web site I frequent. Apparently Red Hat has promotional displays with free Red Hat 7.2 promotional software in U.S. Post Offices." This is great news for the Linux movement - at least the USPS isn't allowing Microsoft to advertise WinXP!
Farking hypocrites...
These XP demo's will "upgrade" your current 9x/2k install. This works great untill your free demo is up, and then you get the forced online authentication, exactly the same as if you didn't register a purchased version. Of course, since you cannot do anything with your computer aside from get the must register message you are officially SOL. Format and re-install, without any chance to back up your stuff. At least that is the story with my roomates PC.
The post office does not run on tax dollars, it runs on what you pay for postage and services. It also probably makes a profit on Microsoft's advertising.
On the other hand my personal concern is, they're still the local office of the federal governement, technically, so how come they have ads up for a company and product that the federal government just successfully sued for being in violation of federal law?
Has anyone picked up one of these CDs? I really doubt it's a demo install of XP. You assume the target audience of this campaign is the same as the MSDN Beta/RC... it's very different. Novice users don't have the time, ability, or means to install a 30-day trial of an operating system.
It's probably just a 20 minute AVI commercial for XP.
like a bunch of startled dugongs, or are you going to burn a batch of Linux install CDs and swap them with the XP demo disks? Use one of those "we make it look as much like Windows as possible" distributions, and you might just get away with it, too.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Those poor sweet little Grumman mail vans have also been plastered with MSN broadband ads up here in Seattle. Gah.
The USPS does not get any money from the taxpayers. They have to earn everything themselves. Since 9/11, the USPS has lost Billions of dollars in lost revenue, anthrax hassles, etc. They have to make up the money somewhere! If Micro$oft came to them and offered them a large amount of money to put up such display cases, I'm all for it!
BTW: the USPS does a tremendous job for the amount they charge for the postage. Have you looked at first-class postage rates in Europe?
when winME came out did they try and sell a demo version for like $30, crazy guys
I say this because the usps is a corporation. It's normally listed as a fortun 500 company. As a result their add space is for sale.
-- john
If I had mod points I'd mod you up (though I never get mod points. I think I got perma-de-modded for going on a mod napalm strike one time). Very true: For all the yapping about the USPS being a "public" institution, people should realize that it is one government funded venture that should be as private-like as possible (indeed here in Canada the post offices ARE comopletely private), and if they can help pay the bills through advertising, then all the better for everyone. Sounds more like anti-free speechers who want to quelch what they don't like that are against this.
Everytime you go into the post office grab a handful of the XP demo Cd's. Then when you get home toss them in the microwave for a few seconds and then file them in the round basket. >:^D
Does an XP CD glow after being irradiated? Or does it just melt?
I'm melting! Melting!
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
All the service packs.
We could all benefit from my education.
What if, during the period that the US and several states were suing the Tobacco companies, the big 5 had setup free giveaway kiosks inviting people to "Visit Flavor Country"?
- JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
How about NOT taking them all and allowing other people the opportunity to make up thier own minds? Or push for a Linux distro company to advertise with free CDs of thier own.
:)
Fine. Take them all. Be greedy, take as much as you want, everything's for you and only you. Why does this sound familiar? It's Microsoft's (and Slashdot's) mantra!
What about legs?
how much is enough for you?
when will you be happy?
I don't know why they haven't thought of this before. Make the consumer OS some downloadable, or aol cd-ish giveaway, while the server and workstation OS gets the per-seat gouging. I really think they will do this come to think of it. How can they be called a monopoly while they give away the stuff? Nobody screams about aol's larger (slightly) marketshare, and they give away their product. I honestly don't think they'd see much of a profit loss, especially if they include a 2 week trial of ms office on every install, and then force you to buy the full version, or you get shareware nags when starting windows that say, "If you'd like to do anything even remotely productive, then you need to run right out and buy MS Office for only $399.95. Press "z" in sixty seconds to continue loading windows". And the amazing thing is, people would actually buy into this kind of crap... God bless capitalism...
Shift happens. Fire it up.
The post office is the sole official physical presence of the U.S. federal government countrywide.
Where do you go to "register" for the Selective Service (the draft)? The post office.
Where do you go to get federal tax forms? The post office is required to supply them.
Sure, some municipalities may have an FBI or ATF branch office, or even a Secret Service office, but the USPS is the main federal presence in EVERY town. It is the face of the US Government for most.
One simple rule for its versus it's
That sig is asking for trouble fella. I saw Richard Stallman himself on here once so I'd watch out.
I don't get it. Whats the big deal...so MS is advertising...big whoop. I bet if Red Hat put free Linux CD's in a post office as advertising Slashdot users would be declaring themselves as a new state of the union and holding parades. Who gives a damn...this isn't news and it doesn't matter.
I go to my bank and their's plenty of free AOL CD's. I don't see anyone complaining about that. At the post office they have a FREE promotional offer for yet another ISP. But hey, now that MS is doing it, it must be wrong, even illegal.
The Masons, the Roman Catholic Church, the United States Congress, the Post Office, and Microsoft are RIGHT NOW embedding technology (heard of Windows CE? Embedded!) in MICROSOFT OUTLOOK (and Outlook Express--anyone notice that? Express, as in Express MAIL?) to require that to send email, you must have a PASSPORT (which you get at . . . you guessed it . . . the Post Office) and give your CREDIT CARD NUMBER to pay EMAIL POSTAGE !!! .
The proof is incontrovertible. ACT NOW! TAKE TO THE STREETS!
Or, it could be just that the USPS made a few bucks displaying MS coasters to help keep the price of stamps from going up so much. Naw.
Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer special edition collectable stamps
And if they did issue such a stamp some people would have a problem getting them to stick as they would spit on the wrong side.
[separation of church and state is]
From the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
Will I retire or break 10K?
That's "so what".
eventually post mail will become a spam-filled memory.
How are you supposed to ship a package without going through USPS or a courier?
Will I retire or break 10K?
But what is the demo? What's on it? What does it do? There's no point bitching about MS giving a free demo away. I can't believe anyone would bitch. Whey shouldn't they? I mean, AOL gives away enough CDs to fill the moon! I don't get why people are complaining about this.
Maybe we need to add "separation of corporation and state" to our "separation of church and state" in the constitution?
That would also prevent governments from breaking up monolopies, wouldn't it?
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
This might be funny if XP or Anthrax were a virus, but neither is. Anthrax is a bacteria, and XP is actually a pretty good operating system. (I wouldn't run it as a server, but it sure is nice on the desktop..)
At least there's a ready-made slogan for the joint venture with US post:
"You've got mail."
Oh. Wait...
My main offices are located in the main lobby
of the Post Office. My rent is paid to GSA,
the building owners, a federal agency. All GSA
buildings are diversified and can rent excess
space. Not too long ago, FEDEX negotiated to
have package pickup stations in the Post Offices.
I like my office; good location, lots of traffic,
and the rental is comparable to other buildings
in this town.
Hey, what's the big deal? Remember, Microsoft won. The Government offered "unconditional surrender."
;-)
Next up, Dubya is moving into the shed. The White House will become the new Microsoft Monument--once the bugs are ?!?(*)?@@?$%#?...
Yeah, but virtually all their assets were
aquired during a time when they DID get
tax funding. Another point is that the
post office enjoys a statutory monopoly on
mail delivery - nobody can compete with them
for regular mail delivery service.
Doh. I thought I was on Slashdot, not the Register. What is this? Some random person on some random web site says he saw an ad in a random post office? This isn't news.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
For the past 2 months, the local (seattle) USPS trucks all have HUGE MSN billboards on them.
First time I saw them I was quite upset. I almost socked my mailman.
A quick look at http://www.usps.com/financials/ shows repeated influxes of Federal funds to keep them afloat.
I would also expect to find that, like with other "low cost" agencies, the costs of buildings, sallaries, retirements, and the like, simply do not exist since the buildings, people, or other such things are paid for on other balance sheets.
Do be aware, Mr. Coward, that it is still illegal to use any other service than the USPS for "first class mail" as defined by law. People/Companies have been prosecuted and fined for such "over-use" of services like FedEx and UPS.
Were the USPS sold for scrap, it wouldn't bother me at all if the resultant company chose to allow advertizing. It is only when the government monopoly on force is used to promote private, for-profit enterprises that I object.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
If they are a private company, why are they subject to so much regulation? Any innovation, change of business practice, rate increase, etc.m c3.pdf
The USPS is a GSE - Government Sponsored Entity - like Freddie MAC, Fannie Mae, etc.
Yet still, legally, they are owned by the members of the USPS Union. (I don't think that just anyone else can buy stock in them...)
As for them being able to do what they like - I truly doubt it. Did you ever notice that it costs exactly the same price to send a letter across the street as it does to send a letter to someone in a remote rural location? If they could 'do what they want', I'm sure they would start charging more for the inconvenient deliveries...
They are not open to free-market competition, either - the have been granted a monopoly on first class mail. That's why FedEx can't suddenly start offering first-class mail - the USPS has been granted a monopoly on that. With that monopoly comes a huge amount of government regulation -
In fact, the National Association of Letter Carriers has regulations that specifically prohibit advertising in Post Office Lobbies - Take a look at section 338.413 of the following: http://www.nalc.org/depart/cau/pdf/manuals/asm/as
I'm only writing this because there's a lot of confusion on the subject - If your post was a troll, it was pathetic. Put a little more effort into it next time.
Cheers,
Jim in tokyo
-- My Weblog.
USPS = unreliable
MS Windows = unreliable
Does unreliablity sum or go up as a geometric series???
USPS + M$ = unreliable x2
or
USPS * MS = unreliable ^2 ???
Is this somehow different or worse than the AOL CDs I have to scrub out of my ass because I trudge through them everywhere I go!?
So take 'em all, and replace them with the AOL 7.0 CDs. While you may not like AOL-TW better, you certainly don't like 'em worse.
Support a few technologists in Washington.
That's pretty good! I'd take out the 'hard-coded' reference to an arbitrary US Dollar amount, though. $100 million might sound about right for a really punishing fine today, but maybe $100 sounded reasonable for a fine back in the 19th century. These documents have staying power.
It's a restriction on what can be placed on public bulletin boards - I'm going to assume they mean by members of the public. What they choose to advertise NOT by using the public bulletin boards is another matter. At least that's the letter of the document - the original intent may have been something different.
So what's next? Will we soon be seeing US soldiers wearing the XP logo on the back of their athletic uniforms instead of "ARMY" ? After all, it's just add space, hey the military could use the extra money they make in ad sales to develop newer more powerful weapons that hunt down hackersH^H^H^H^H^H^H terrorists. Another question I'd like to see answered is: Has anyone seen any ads at their post office for anything BESIDES MS? I mean, this is borderline humorous, except for the fact that my tax dollars are going to subsidize microsoft advertisments I'd be laughing my ass off right now. And why is it the Postal Service wants to raise stamp prices again when A.) They're already turning a profit and B.) They can sell ad space to MS?< /VENT >
how about using them for solar reflectors to generate heat/electricity.. yeah that is the ticket
-
Success Sells.
So it may get worse; there may be Microsoft ads on USPS trucks next.For over 200 years, the United States Postal Service is the brand that has been built on trust and service.
Now we're selling our unique space. Think of us as your Multi-channel Communications Service. Marketers can get the visibility and reach through the Postal Ad Network.
Place your big message on our trucks, collection boxes and even in our postal facilities. Or small space ads on our stamp packages and banner ads on our website.
There's opposition to the USPS selling out like this.
Free promotions, how strange... and kinda desparate sounding...
.net product release, which I can be privileged to attend at the cost of $149 (plus 12.5% GST).
.NET to start with, this slipped the gear lever into reverse for me.
:)
Down here in NZ I received a postcard 'invitation' to the visual studio
Now I may have a distorted view of the universe, from working on a Microsoft development platform for too long, but shouldn't MS be offering incentives for developers to take up their new dev tools ? Maybe a free copy of VS.NET here & there ? So we can develop applications that require our clients to purchase MS licenses ?
No, they can give away massive $$$ to promote the OS of the future, but developers should PAY THEM to sit in a big room and hear about new products that we could buy off them. Altho I was not rushing to take up
oh, and my home desktop is KDE, so even a free copy of XP ain't getting near my hardware
LesF
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"hi, i'd like a book of stamps"
"that will be $1k dollars"
"what !!, all i wanted were stamps"
What part of "United States Post Office" don't you understand? That the civil servants are employed by the Federal Government?
There are many makers of software in this great country and I'm sure none of them apprecite their tax dollars being used to support Microsoft. Don't you remember half of them testifying against M$ over the last few years? Well, gee there it is being promoted in a maner that some people will take as offial US sponsorship. It stinks. Were any of them offered the same oppertunity? Would it even be possible to fit all the material there? 30 Linux distros, 45 BSDs, AOL, Sun, HP, Compaq. There would not be room to stand.
Let's look at another thing "powering" the US post office by way of compairison. Jeeps. You see them all over, as they won bids on an open market. The Post Office Jeeps were stripped of all insignia and were only recognizable by their form. No cardboard cut outs recomending the purchase of Jeeps ever kept the sun from shining through a USPO window. No "test drives" were ever offered. Instead, Jeep was happy to be making the sale and the use was recomendation enough. The USPO had no intentions of recomending one automobile maker over another.
Go to Netcraft, you will see that most US government sites do NOT run M$ trash.
So my wife asks me, "why would they bother to promote M$, a company that needs no promotion." Might the settlement be nationalization? Oh shit.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
The somewhat correct spelling is YWHW. Alas, my computer doesn't do Hebrew, so I can't get the true coorect spelling in here.
er... YHWH, even...
The USPS got privatized a long time ago. To imply that where it gets its advertising dollars has ANY connection with the MS case is so ludicrous that as an author I'd be embarassed to put my name on any article even suggesting it. Another pointless MS bashing treated like a newsworthy story. Why can't all this effort be applied towards something constructive?
http://new.usps.com/cgi-bin/uspsbv/scripts/content .jsp?B=contactform&C=Community%20Services&BB=-8216 &TT=2&CC=-8216&DD=null&Comments=null
I told them what I think, and ask if they could
improve a few things, and told them what I did like about them.
Don't post childishly, or they will not take it into concern.
--------------------------
Is this a sig?
--------------------------
To me the whole thing comes off as the U.S. rolling its belly up for a scratch from a company they've currently, to whatever small degree, convicted of performing illegal business practices. And now they're doing buisiness with them. That certainly seems a reasonable case for a conflict of interest, to my mind.
I guess it would be fine if it didn't seem so grossly evil(legal though I guess it may be). It doesn't really give me much hope that the government is faithfully dealing with Microsoft on our behalf.
fc
Just goes to show what ruthless monopolists they are.
Microsoft isn't so nice, either.
microsoft seems to be giving out free copies of windows xp to students of select universities.
1: The USPS isn't exactly the most profitable (simi) part of the government. Its become more and more seperated in the last few decades. By the time your average slashdot reader reaches his 25th birthday, it may not exist anymore, unless its reabsorbed into the government in entirety. Advertising is good thing in this case, i would assume. I don't think it would be long before we start seeing "banner ads" imprinted on envelopes. I'll refrain from commenting on my opinions of the apropriateness of the release of XP for this bit of slashdot satire.
2: I forsee soon a slashdot story..
"Bill Gates trying to kill journalists!"
A noticably weakened Bill Gates today sneezed at a 4 PM press conference announcing his philantrhopic extension to the public library system. Gates later was diagnosted with a potentially fatal and communicable illness "Influenza".
While covering the conference in his boxers, in his living room, Rob Malda noted that a member of the press who, at one time made a snide remark about Windows 3.1 being "Broken", was standing directly in front of and below Gates.
"I can only assume this was a pre-planned attack against the media. Gates will not stand for negative press, and, being the dark god Azmodeus himself, his vengence knows no limit of time".
When asked if this could be attributed to circumstance, or wild speculation on his part, he denied the accusation and began screaming "bitchslap dot pee ell! BITCHSLAP DOT PEE ELL!".
Hemos and Timothy could not be reached for comment.
Members of the mainstream media were not at a loss for words with this issue, mentioning:
"The things a mind can come up with, when deprived of intelligent human contact" -- Hugh Downs
"And you *LISTENED* to him?! He doesn't even have a mastery of the english language" -- Wolf Blitzer
"Jesus Christ.." -- Jesus Christ
"Taco is correct.. [What follows was a long-winded, dicursive diatribe blaming Bill Gates for Columbine. Omitted for the sake of brevity.]" -- Jon Katz
"I posted this story three minutes before he did" -- chrisd
Use the discs as runners in a Tesla Turbine.
:-)
They'd make pretty nifty ones for a small fluid pump...
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I got an AOL 7.0 CD with a USPS change-of-address confirmation letter a few days ago. pfff..
http://www.sammag.com/docs/355.html
Maybe it's just because I'm drunk, but I think the USPS are a bunch of filthy whores already anway... The damn change-of-address cards come with 25 advertisements, and the first thing they do with your new address is send it out to all the local spammers anyway... The USPS will do anything to keep from laying off excess employees, which is a bit noble if you think of it that way... Now stay away from my wife! No, I'm just kidding, you're my best friend... really, I mean that... just kidding about that... G'night people!
People shape laws. Not the other way around.
After working in the shipping business, I learned quickly how the USPS is the government equivalent of Microsoft. Try sending an overnight letter via UPS or Federal Express to a PO Box. It can't be done. Why? Simple: The USPS forces senders to use their mail services.
When you are a business with no competition, you have no reason to improve. IMO, anybody would be crazy to send something of crucial value or importance via any postal service and expect the same service as a private equivalent (UPS/FedEx/Airbourne).
They are a corporate monopoly with government protection. Not to mention, the only government agency I have seen that runs TV ads ("Fly Like An Eagle" crap).
I found a copy of this "preview" in a popular science mag!
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
Just a general rant.
Look at my "submit story" history we see the following:
2001-11-21 06:59:10 Javascript cookie vulerablity in Opera (articles,security) (rejected)
2001-11-25 22:09:39 Human embryo cloned (articles,news) (rejected)
2001-12-05 06:14:01 Earth based telescopes now have potential to match (articles,news) (rejected)
And this, this makes it to the front page of Slashdot? WTF!? No, it needs to be expanded:
What
The
Fuck!?
I mean seriously? This has what to do with what exactly? MS in the post office? God forbid that there should be some commercialism in the US Junkmail distribution system. I mean my god, what's next, the post office advertising on TV? Or maybe they'll raise prices on stamps or something.
I mean really. Slashdot is so inconsistent it, it... Well, I guess we all expect it now, but, god
Ok, now go ahead and mod me down.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
So does this mean I can go to the USPS to get a CD that will let me run XP free for 1000 hours for 45 days? No credit card required?
I'm pretty sure that the "Demo" is this: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/ tours/demos/default.asp on a CD, i.e. a bunch of AVI files probably with an auto-execing viewer.
I happened to notice that the mail truck in the parking lot at work the other day had a microsoft billboard. I didn't think much about it at the time, but i never have seen an ad on a mailtruck before.
This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
I guess the reason people are generally not outraged by this kind of marketing is that Microsoft Windows is not in a way considered to be a "product" in the traditional sense of the word by general public. If you would ask 100 Joe Random Users to draw a computer, 95 of them would draw a Windows desktop. In peoples minds,MS Windows has become THE operating system instead of A operating system and a integrated essential part of any computer.
"There is a terrorist behind every bush"
Microsoft is a convicted monopolist that has shown no remorse for its actions, and scarcely acknowledges that it has done any wrong. Ideally, the government would not be helping to pormote this malignancy.
It has been repeated many times throughout this discussion, first that the Post Office is part of the US government, only to have that assertion contradicted to the effect that the Postal Service is actually an independant corporation established and run by the government -- posters have also pointed out that the Federal Government is the sole shareholder, appoints the directors, and as needed bails the service out to the tune of a billion dollars.
All this is missing the point: the government shouldn't be helping spread the monopoly even if the post office is technically independent. The service still answers to Congress, and does arguably more so than most other businesses. This sort of issue is well within the domain of public policy -- even if no policies currently exist that are relevant to this situation.
In a broader sense, corporations in general also answer to Congress (even in cases like Enron where they'd rather not!), and by extension we regulate all of them in numerous ways as well. In comparison to wholly indepenent and totally private corporations it should be easy to shape a public policy in regards to a pseudo-governmental organization like the post office -- even if it means appointing a board of directors who agree that convicted monopolists shouldn't have the privilege of advertising in Postal Service buildings.
This is also why this is a relevant Slashdot story. It involves what amounts to a public policy decision (or lack thereof) that affects technology that the Slashdot community cares about: Microsoft, monopolies, the blurred line between the public and private sector, and public policy regarding these topics.
We offer literature about God. Make your own deal with the devil. :-)
Wouldn't this destroy pretty much all future litigation against MS? I mean, giving away something for free would technically take MS out of the OS sales market, and would effectively remove them from competition.
Suck!
Because this has something to do with the post office could this be mail fraud when:
Claim - Windows XP is faster
Claim - Windows XP is secure
Claim - Windows XP is stable
Claim - Windows XP makes you more productive
All turn out to be false?
for a fixed fee, then I don't have a problem with this.
If only microsoft can do this, or if it costs microsoft less than other companies, then I have a problem with it.
I think I am going to go to the local postoffice and pick up a couple of handfulls of coasters... Errr, I mean demos.
-- Never make a general statement.
USPS had a great idea. People are always complaing about their services. So now when they enter in on of those postoffices they will have someone else to blame.
.-))
------I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either.------
Whether or not it's wise for them to do this with MS is another issue, but it is most certainly within their jurisdiction to do so.
According to this article no private entity can deliver a package or envalope for less than $3 or twice the cost of a first class letter.
I'm just wondering where the government funded Linux & BSD distros are in the post offices?I'd like to pick one up..oh wait..no linux company has the money to pay off the postal service like that..damn I'll just have to stick to the good ol' Mandrake/Redhat/Dragon ftp sites..*sigh*
LOL
This is just another example of MS paying off the most powerful government in the world.Is it really that hard to comprehend that MS/Disney control most of the herd's mind and steal the small amount of cash that they allowed them to have in the first place?
I think not.
http://paulmadore.tripod.com
http://freesimstuff.topcities.com
"Fight The Power"
To truly get that, you need to buy the judge first.
Did any other New Yorkers notice that Microsoft paid to have the giant picture of Tux & IBM near Port Authority painted over with an ad for XP? I found it kind of amusing myself.
Would anybody be calling the USPS biased or giving in to corporations if suddenly they started handing out free RedHat cds and avertising their service plan? I don't think so. That would just be considered "advertising" not "creating a dangerous link between corporation and state" as many people have written. *sigh*
Seeing as Microsoft and USPS are two monopolies that excel in crappy service, why would anyone be surprised to see them picking each other's noses?
Don't forget Windows for Pens! (Yes, there was such a thing).
...profoundly disturbing about such shenanigans going on even as District Court Judge
Colleen Kollar-Kotelly allegedly mulls the proper punishment of the
Microsoft Corporation, an illegal monopoly, for violating U.S. antitrust law?
Mod me down for off-topic, but I'm wondering why this story has 3x as many posts as the "last-call for public comments" in the M$ antitrust case story?
If you've got something to say, and the time to post it here, then say it to the DoJ. They are the ones who can do something to change that behavior you're dissatisfied (satisfied?) with.
http://www.codeweavers.com/~jwhite/tunney.html
subj says it all.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
That would be G*d. Now, who is going to burn in hell?
Apparently Microsoft has promotional displays with free WindowsXP promotional software in U.S. Post Offices.
Wait, don't tell me - these promotional displays for Windows XP are hanging right next those posters the USPS has warning about
[Warning: gratuitous MS bashing ahead. Mature audiences only.]
Given all the latest scares about anthrax spores being distributed via US Mail, I'd say that Windows XP would constitute a similarly receptive medium for distributing viral agents and that such posters are not at all out of place.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
What could be more appropriate than MS's picture next to the others on the Post Office wall. Too bad it doesn't say "Dead or Alive".
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
But this is about taxes. The MS tax.
.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Why? Everything would have to be done in-house. No more hiring construction companies to build highways; no more buying railcars from the leading manufacturers; no more buying phone service from the leading carrier; the list goes on and on.
The post office makes money. Part of the deal is that they can run it like a business. Get a freakin' clue.
One broken system advertises for another. The two companies seem to offer the same level of service and use similar tactics.
i am talking about the specific phrase "separation of church and state"
thank you.
i am talking about the specific phrase "separation of church and state"
By that argument, you can claim that the First Amendment doesn't protect free speech, only "freedom of speech." I read "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" as requiring at least some separation between church and state.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Can't you see the marketing hype now if all the OS demos are snatched up ... XP millions of CDs swept up, buy yours today, most popular OS by CD, etc. etc. etc.
Goes tits up a lot and only runs for a short time before giving nag notices, then it quits entirely.
Well, it's not like anyone was paying for them...
Until you start finding the Microsoft Bible in your hotel room....
You state, "I'd have no problem giving up the first class monopoly but the competetors would need to play by the same rules - deliver to every mailbox in the whole country six days a week, no skimming on just the high volume routes. Any takers on that basis?"
If there is a market for such a level of service, there will be entepreneurs who step up to provide that service.
Your criteria is something that you believe in. Are you emotionally prepared to give up the ability to enforce what you want on others by the power of the sword?
The risk is that the service provided will not be to your satisfaction. So what? AOL doesn't deliver service to my satisfaction, that doesn't mean I'm going to advocate a law banning AOL.
....no matter how much fun that would be.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics