Big difference - assuming the piano playing was decent, you have created a beautiful piece of artwork.
Assuming the football playing was good, the other guys are in pain and you've suckered a bunch of fat, testosterone-laden slobs sitting in the bleachers out of a whole ton of money. If you're lucky, you won't fall apart before you hit 35.
Of course, this is all just my own opinion. It needn't apply to everyone, I suppose...
--- Just what strategic advantage do you really think that apple gains by keeping 'control' of OpenPlay? ---
Not much, probably. But the whole of Darwin has some value to Apple. Would you suggest they use conflicting licenses?
--- If corporations aren't really interested in sharing then they should drop the pretense. ---
You are limiting yourself if you think that 'sharing' requires a GPL licensed codebase. While I have no problem with the GPL itself (nobody HAS to use it, it has been used with good software, etc), I DO have a problem with the assumption that anything not put under the GPL is 'evil'. I have yet to see a convincing argument that proprietary software is somehow morally inferior to GPL'd software. Apple has no more draconian rules attached to their license than does the GPL.
In the end, though, you don't have to use the APSL. And they don't have to use the GPL. What's the big problem?
--- We realize that some of that development is still greed driven. ---
Not all development is greed driven. That's a myth, although Microsoft would seem to support your theory.
Much of it is actually "Food" or "Shelter" driven. Just like any other job. I'm sorry, but not everyone can make money off of support, customization, or speaking tours.
I've seen a lot of confusion over the GPL - more than any other, really (you don't see it yourself, as you're probably pretty familiar with it already). As for 'kinda free', if the GPL were truly free there wouldn't be nearly as many stipulations attached to it.
Perhaps you should learn the history of which you speak?
The Xerox GUI research was indeed useful, and made a major impact on Apple. However:
1. Xerox was paid for the 'walkthrough', in the form of stock in Apple (assuming they've held on to it, they should be pretty happy right about now). When will Microsoft start sending their checks out to Apple?
2. Xerox rarely gets anything out the door, and if they do, it usually flops (not due to inferior technology, but for marketing reasons).
3. The previous poster said '...Sure they both saw what was at xerox parc, but Jobs was the man to bring it to the table.'. Reread that. Get a drink. Reread it again. Think about it for a minute or two. He's not saying Apple invented the entire concept of a graphical user interface, he said that Jobs (and Apple) brought it 'to the table'. They took the risk, and it more or less paid off.
Instead of polishing your insult/flaming technique, perhaps you can pay more attention the what a person says before replying?
1. Compiling for both platforms on the BeOS is actually pretty easy.
2. The Mac hardware platform is much less of a moving target than the wild world of Wintel. Remember the lack of driver problem? That was never much of an issue on the PPC side of things.
3. Apple is very big in the graphics and multimedia markets. Be is aiming for a similar market. Meaning, Macs are very common in the areas Be wants to get into - piggybacking on the Mac seems logical to me (gaining more than just a 'few percent' of marketshare).
4. PPC support is already there. G3 and G4 support is reportedly very easy to add (ie. a single developer taking a couple of weeks). Everything Be writes runs on PPC already, and it doesn't seem to be hurting them too much. Now they just need to make a promise to retain support into the future, gaining back trust.
5. Mac marketshare has been improving drastically lately - far higher than when they first ported to the PPC. It's a good time to look at the PPC again.
1. Apple has open-sourced the relevent portions of their OS.
2. Intel invested in Be around the time they started going away from the PPC.
3. Hasn't stopped LinuxPPC/YDL/MkLinux much, has it?
4. Apple makes money on hardware - BeOS would be good for them.
At best, Be made a rational decision based on the dwindling marketshare of the Mac platform (given their target market, multimedia, I think this is bogus - but a possibility). At worst, this was due to obvious pressure from Intel and internal politics at Be. My guess is that it was partially a mixture of both.
Either way, Be's handling of the issue has been terrible. They should just get it done with and drop PPC support altogether.
But you fail to realize, Apple could have quite easily been dead had they not killed cloning. I didn't like it (I'm the proud owner of a PowerTower Pro 225), and the cloners at the time were putting out better hardware, but that makes little difference now.
Now, Apple is putting out decent hardware, and has improved OS stability greatly from the 7.5.5 days...
I hope that they allow for cloning again, but with better control over the spec. If they weren't careful, the clones could have eaten them alive. Just ask IBM.
I declate your observation null and void due to being based on an unsound concept - that a suit could use a search engine, and would be looking for info in a tech-oriented knowledge base.
Parasitic would only fit if they didn't give anything back - O'Reilly makes some of the best documentation out there... Certainly better than the average HOWTO.
It's a symbiotic relationship.
Plus - since when does a publisher have to agree with everything spouted by some guy with far left leanings? The open-source community is diverse, with the purists all the way to the pragmatists (I'll admit it - I'm somewhere in that latter group). O'Reilly seems to pop up around that area as well. What's wrong with that?
The post these people refer to is not yours. The post they are referring to says just this:
--- I've never heard of anybody switching from Microsoft to a Linux. Honestly. ---
...my guess is that you aren't browsing at the lowest level (it has a score of 0, being from an Anonymous Coward).
Oops.
Anyhow, I've seen cases where people thought they were happy with Windows, until they were presented with a superior choice (ie. Linux, MacOS, etc) - at that point, hindsight might say "wow, it really does suck".
...but it's solicited, therein lies the difference.
I've actually benefitted a great deal from instant messaging. I telecommute (I live in Wash. State, my coworkers mostly live in California), and this is how I collaborate with my counterparts. There are tons of ICQ clients out there you can choose from, for whatever OS or features you want.
Slashdot Mirror
Not an endorsement. :>
http://internetparty.freeservers.com/
Used to be the 'Internet' party, but they merged with the Constitution party. Go figure.
I prefer most of the politics of the Libertarian party, myself.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
...also failed to call for yours?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
I rest my case.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Big difference - assuming the piano playing was decent, you have created a beautiful piece of artwork.
Assuming the football playing was good, the other guys are in pain and you've suckered a bunch of fat, testosterone-laden slobs sitting in the bleachers out of a whole ton of money. If you're lucky, you won't fall apart before you hit 35.
Of course, this is all just my own opinion. It needn't apply to everyone, I suppose...
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Seems to me you posted that comment specifically to get a rise out of someone, so that you could flame them.
'Flamebait', indeed.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Don't worry about it. At least you've mastered the art of the shift key.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Funny, consensus so far is that there isn't even a problem.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
---
Just what strategic advantage do you really think that apple gains by keeping 'control' of OpenPlay?
---
Not much, probably. But the whole of Darwin has some value to Apple. Would you suggest they use conflicting licenses?
---
If corporations aren't really interested in sharing then they should drop the pretense.
---
You are limiting yourself if you think that 'sharing' requires a GPL licensed codebase. While I have no problem with the GPL itself (nobody HAS to use it, it has been used with good software, etc), I DO have a problem with the assumption that anything not put under the GPL is 'evil'. I have yet to see a convincing argument that proprietary software is somehow morally inferior to GPL'd software. Apple has no more draconian rules attached to their license than does the GPL.
In the end, though, you don't have to use the APSL. And they don't have to use the GPL. What's the big problem?
---
We realize that some of that development is still greed driven.
---
Not all development is greed driven. That's a myth, although Microsoft would seem to support your theory.
Much of it is actually "Food" or "Shelter" driven. Just like any other job. I'm sorry, but not everyone can make money off of support, customization, or speaking tours.
---
Whereas 'kinda free' licences create a muddled, confused mess.
---
I've seen a lot of confusion over the GPL - more than any other, really (you don't see it yourself, as you're probably pretty familiar with it already). As for 'kinda free', if the GPL were truly free there wouldn't be nearly as many stipulations attached to it.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Really?
Hrm. I must have had it all wrong, then...
:>
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
That's funny, Microsoft does that all the time.
(Apple isn't immune either - anyone remember early versions of OT, ie. 'Broken Transport'?)
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
It also encourages good security.
Plus, this was a 'legit', solicited crack. What's wrong with that?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Coward -
Perhaps you should learn the history of which you speak?
The Xerox GUI research was indeed useful, and made a major impact on Apple. However:
1. Xerox was paid for the 'walkthrough', in the form of stock in Apple (assuming they've held on to it, they should be pretty happy right about now). When will Microsoft start sending their checks out to Apple?
2. Xerox rarely gets anything out the door, and if they do, it usually flops (not due to inferior technology, but for marketing reasons).
3. The previous poster said '...Sure they both saw what was at xerox parc, but Jobs was the man to bring it to the table.'. Reread that. Get a drink. Reread it again. Think about it for a minute or two. He's not saying Apple invented the entire concept of a graphical user interface, he said that Jobs (and Apple) brought it 'to the table'. They took the risk, and it more or less paid off.
Instead of polishing your insult/flaming technique, perhaps you can pay more attention the what a person says before replying?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
1. Compiling for both platforms on the BeOS is actually pretty easy.
2. The Mac hardware platform is much less of a moving target than the wild world of Wintel. Remember the lack of driver problem? That was never much of an issue on the PPC side of things.
3. Apple is very big in the graphics and multimedia markets. Be is aiming for a similar market. Meaning, Macs are very common in the areas Be wants to get into - piggybacking on the Mac seems logical to me (gaining more than just a 'few percent' of marketshare).
4. PPC support is already there. G3 and G4 support is reportedly very easy to add (ie. a single developer taking a couple of weeks). Everything Be writes runs on PPC already, and it doesn't seem to be hurting them too much. Now they just need to make a promise to retain support into the future, gaining back trust.
5. Mac marketshare has been improving drastically lately - far higher than when they first ported to the PPC. It's a good time to look at the PPC again.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Given that:
1. Apple has open-sourced the relevent portions of their OS.
2. Intel invested in Be around the time they started going away from the PPC.
3. Hasn't stopped LinuxPPC/YDL/MkLinux much, has it?
4. Apple makes money on hardware - BeOS would be good for them.
At best, Be made a rational decision based on the dwindling marketshare of the Mac platform (given their target market, multimedia, I think this is bogus - but a possibility). At worst, this was due to obvious pressure from Intel and internal politics at Be. My guess is that it was partially a mixture of both.
Either way, Be's handling of the issue has been terrible. They should just get it done with and drop PPC support altogether.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
But you fail to realize, Apple could have quite easily been dead had they not killed cloning. I didn't like it (I'm the proud owner of a PowerTower Pro 225), and the cloners at the time were putting out better hardware, but that makes little difference now.
Now, Apple is putting out decent hardware, and has improved OS stability greatly from the 7.5.5 days...
I hope that they allow for cloning again, but with better control over the spec. If they weren't careful, the clones could have eaten them alive. Just ask IBM.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Being stoned?
[sarcasm enabled]
Oh yeah, that's what I want this century to be known for...
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
"Free software, as embodied by the GPL, is under a number of license restrictions on its distribution and use, and can therefore be pirated."
Am I the only one who finds this terribly amusing?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
---
;>
Shame on you, you miserable Redmond worm.
---
Tom...
Don't hold back, why don't you tell him how you REALLY feel?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
I declate your observation null and void due to being based on an unsound concept - that a suit could use a search engine, and would be looking for info in a tech-oriented knowledge base.
:>
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Parasitic would only fit if they didn't give anything back - O'Reilly makes some of the best documentation out there... Certainly better than the average HOWTO.
It's a symbiotic relationship.
Plus - since when does a publisher have to agree with everything spouted by some guy with far left leanings? The open-source community is diverse, with the purists all the way to the pragmatists (I'll admit it - I'm somewhere in that latter group). O'Reilly seems to pop up around that area as well. What's wrong with that?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
I'm thinking you should have done your research before you posted 4 messages accusing people of misquoting you.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
This is what we call 'user error'.
The post these people refer to is not yours. The post they are referring to says just this:
---
I've never heard of anybody switching from Microsoft to a Linux. Honestly.
---
...my guess is that you aren't browsing at the lowest level (it has a score of 0, being from an Anonymous Coward).
Oops.
Anyhow, I've seen cases where people thought they were happy with Windows, until they were presented with a superior choice (ie. Linux, MacOS, etc) - at that point, hindsight might say "wow, it really does suck".
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
...but it's solicited, therein lies the difference.
I've actually benefitted a great deal from instant messaging. I telecommute (I live in Wash. State, my coworkers mostly live in California), and this is how I collaborate with my counterparts. There are tons of ICQ clients out there you can choose from, for whatever OS or features you want.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
Morale?
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)
I'm not going to go into detail on anything, but let's just say water is not the best in lubrication.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)