Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft looking for FreeBSD Skills
After last Sunday's story about Microsoft looking
for Linux skills, Alfred
Perlstein wrote in with the news that talented FreeBSD admins can also find themselves positions with
Microsoft, in particular, at Hotmail. The Hotmail guys do seem to have
a sense of humour though; witness hostnames like
rotate-the-shield-harmonics.hotmail.com.
Well, when I hear that Micros~1 wants linux people, and now freebsd people, it smells like a port of some of their more "popular" software.
:)
MS Office, Explorer, all that stuff. (I'm pretty sure that Explorer already exists for x86 and sparc Solaris boxen, but nowhere else). With all of the newbies from windows land flooding into the linux and BSD* worlds, I bet that they could actually attract a few people who are moving to something they don't understand by using some software on UNIX that they already know.
Of course, that would be some type of low level concession, since if we can't have our customers on our platform, we'll have our customers on your platform, but still, I think the bucks are there.
So when are they going to start hiring Plan9, Eros, and Pick programmers?
It would be interesting to see them port some of their software that relies so heavily on ActiveX and all that other stuff. They may have to bring that stuff with them when coming to Linux/BSD
Just my $0.02
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
Looks like the jobs are all hotmail support, which shouldn't be too suprising since they couldn't get the system to run on NT when microsoft bought them. I wasn't aware that they were running FreeBSD, though.
Hotmail in Sunnyvale, CA
[snip] We need someone to administer the Hotmail system of 45 million plus users...[snip]... solid troubleshooting skills, system installation and configuration, fundamentals of security, [snip]
No wonder Hotmail is easier to crack than a cookie jar.
_____________________________________
I doubt it. When people switch from Microsoft to an alternative OS, like a BSD or Linux, isn't it, in part, to get away from Microsoft? I've never heard anyone say, "I like Microsoft products so much I am going to start using Linux instead of NT." I guess one could argue that people may like Office, but not Windows, but I don't know - Office has that Windowy feel about it.
Anyway, I seriously doubt Microsoft would start promoting software that would adversely affect their core business - the Windows OS. I would wager that the reason they want these BSD folks for the Hotmail group is because Hotmail still runs on a bunch of FreeBSD servers, which were suppose to be converted to NT boxes. (The conversion process has been riddled with problems, hence the reason only part of Hotmail uses NT, the other half using non-Microsoft solutions.)
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
I can think of a couple of reasons that MS/Hotmail would want Linux/BSD people.
1. They wish to port various tools (Office, Encarta, FrontPage) to Linux or BSD. This is most definetly not a bad thing, and is, IMHO, good. The plethora of tools for LInux/BSD can only be a good thing.
2. They recognize the value of BSD(in Hotmail's case) and are willing to hire people to keep it going. This is also a good thing. If they recognize that BSD works well enough not to replace it with NT or some such, that can only be a good thing.
3. They plan to use it as a FUD generator. Inthis case, I don't think they would hire people with Linux/BSD experience, because generally, those people wouldn't find faults, only differences. IMHO, the most clued computer people are those who see things more as differences, and not faults.
4. They want to make Windows/Linux integration easier. SOunds good to me.
5. They want to make a Linux distro. Neither good nor bad, really - thanks to GPL, they can't possibly take over the market, and another distro probably wouldn't hurt anything.
Basically, I see this as a win-win situation all around. I hope we see more of this sort of thing coming out of Redmond soon.
judge-jackson-won't-look-for-us-here.hotmail.com
bork-bork-bork.consumers.hotmail.com
here-come-the-clowns.legal.hotmail.com
And don't forget:
what-me-worry.linux.hotmail.com
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
- 216.33.238.149: rotate-the-shield-harmonics.hotmail.com
- 216.33.238.147: ham-in-a-can.hotmail.com
- 216.33.238.148: 27eyedwalleyedbass.hotmail.com
And I complained when they called our server "mrhankey".I doubt Microsoft is looking to port software. or are looking to generate FUD. It is no big surprise that NT/W2K cannot handle a site as massive as Hotmail, and even management would be stupid to think otherwise. I think they are using FreeBSD just to avoid the press coverage that they actually went and bought a commercial Unix/competing product (such as Solaris), and figure FreeBSD is the lesser of two evils.
-snip- Experience with commercial backup software especially Legato and Windows NT is a plus. -snip-
Interesting, NT is only backup software. They finally realized it.
It strikes me that BSDers have a much different attitude towards windows than Linuxers. I've seen this among my own circle of acquantainces as well as on newsgroups/mailing lists, etc.
Basically, BSDers promote BSD on the server and Windows (or Mac) on the desktop. They realize and accept that Windows is good on the desktop and resign themselves to the fact that BSD will never be able to compete in that area.
Linuxers on the other hand, tend to take the Linux everywhere philosophy and only use Windows with much bitching and moaning (sometimes hypocritically).
Wouldn't be interesting if Microsoft adopted the BSD attitude though?
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
These domain are unresolvable for me...
That might be fun for a while. So was this.
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
I use BSD and Linux, so what am I? Linux is great for my desktop, but probably not for anyone elses. I think a lot of people don't understand that. Most users have enough trouble with the Start button under Windows 95 that I wouldn't even want to support Linux where I work. Just my 2 cents.
They're not real. See the next comment for the real weird hostnames.
Nope, the dozen BSDers I know around here all use BSD on all their machines, making no distinction between shared (I think you're calling that a "[workgroup] server") and non-shared (I think you're calling that a "[personal] desktop") resources.
Somone jumps to an unwarrented conclusion, and then that person is moderated to the top the
The idea that MS is going to "port" (sic) their software to FreeBSD is entirely offbase, give the facts at hand. Uruk obviously didn't read the linked article, or the header which clearly indicates that this is Hotmail, which has always been a unix shop.
i don't think that i would want to use any crippled and broken microsoft products under linux or *bsd. why mess up a good thing with something thats proven to be crap. :)
Honestly, this is a little embarassing for Microsoft, but on the other hand it shows a certain willingness to use what works well. On the other hand, it wouldn't be good PR if the number one free email site fell apart over a conversion to Win2K.
Howard Owen hbo@egbok.com Everything's Gonna Be OK Consulting
"Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers
Contrary to denials in the press, MS is working on porting IE, Office, and Win32 implementations to Linux. I've seen it, and i'm sure many MS employees can vouch for the fact. Though from the last I've seen, they're still working on the Win32 implementation and have a long way to go before a finished IE or Office product...
They're dissecting human brains in there. This is not a joke.
I work at Hotmail. Yeah, yeah, I'm a Microserf, flame me. Yadda yadda -- if you had a chance at the options you'd do it too. It's a great work environment, and we're valued by the company. Deal with it.
The only thing that's not great about it is the "Experiments", as we call them. These matters are only ever discussed in hints and whispers and I'm not going to risk telling you all that I know, but this much can be said: There are two kinds of new hires at Hotmail. Only one kind will ever be seen again after the first day he reports. The other kind? You'd probably rather not know, but if you interview at Microsoft and they ask you about allergies and blood type, and if they seem to be interested in the shape of your skull, I would advise you very very strongly not to take the job.
Peace and God bless,
Jerry M.
So, then need to hire admins and programmers....whats the big deal?
Please, someone tell Microsoft to stop mistreating their llamas. Llamas are beautiful, peace-loving creatures, and do not deserve to be beaten and tortured, especially by a major corporation. Perhaps moving to BSD will soften their hearts and show them that llamas are lovable animals!
It's clear from the job listings that they're looking to keep hotmail running, not port MS Office or whatever. That being said, if Linux actually caught on as a desktop OS (a few years from now) I wouldn't be surprised if MS ended up porting MS Office to Linux, the same way they sell a MacOS version. While they certainly like to control 80-90% of the desktops, they make more money on Office, and at this point it makes more revenue, and is a more sustainable monopoly, than Windows. Why do I say that? Because the market is in the process of fragmenting into a wide range of OS' for various dedicated tasks. WinCE is failing badly, Apple has refused to go under, and Linux and BeOS are proving popular with hardware vendors. If Windows drops in market share, I bet that the MS Office product manager wins the fight to port to Linux even if it costs the Windows product manager some sales. Especially if, as is starting to look almost likely, the OS and Application groups are either or in different companies or independent business units.
Well, as nice and broad a comment as that is, the people I've met tend to think differently (but don't use Macs ;-] pardon the pun).
/. are anything like the opinions of geeks in general.
Anyway, out of the Linux users I know, most are Anti-MS, a few rabid Anti-MS. Some of us keep a small amount of MS software around, mostly just for Half Life and better graphics drivers (though Linux GL drivers are quickly approaching Win9x speeds). I'd play with BSD if I had some time on my hands, but I don't. Linux does what I need it to do.
Out of the BSD users I know, most are both rabidly Anti-MS and somewhat Anti-Linux. I don't know if it was the sudden fame of Linux, but they just seem to think that the GPL sucks, Linux security sucks, etc etc. Not to flame them or anything, but I've never been fond of zealousy in any form. And if anything, the BSDers I know would suggest BeOS over Mac/Windows any day, and Linux before Windows.
Out of the MS users I know, most just raise an eyebrow at Linux/BSD and say "Why doesn't it play Half-Life?" And most of them agree that the betas of Win2k really aren't all it's cracked up to be, and are busy trying to lay their warez kiddie paws on Win2k final.
Anyway, now I'm rambling. No blanket statements please.. We know there are zealots out there. Listening to them is just dumb, just like thinking that the opinions expressed on
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You'd think of Microsoft as the economic tyrant, sucking the life out of the economy and degrading technological standards. On the other side you'd think VA Linux and Red Hat as the saviors, putting money into the economy, creating new technology, and saving the world. Yet it's Microsoft who announces job openings for FreeBSD and Linux knowledge, creating a need for these people and it's VA Linux which announces simply: "I'm not going to minimize my attachments by giving it all away, though, so you evangelists for a zillion worthy causes can just calm down out there and forget about hitting me up for megabucks. I am *not* going to be a soft touch, and will rudely refuse all importunities." Quite ironic.
If they can put up with Windows as the desktop then what's wrong with having to put up with Linux moving towards being something for the destop too?
Linux users are dreaming of not having to use windows ever again. this isn't a bad dream. sometimes it gets in the way of reality. but when someone suggests using linux for something that the MacOS or another OS can do better (like most media stuff) then that's just plain wrong. but i've always seen people correct what appears to be bad advice.
as a community, i've seen some good people do the check and balances that keeps the community healthy. it won't always be successful, since there are TONS of linux users today. but this doesn't make the whole "linuxers" a bad group.
"you get hit and your head goes ping" --rocky horror picture show
I think the difference is because Linux tends to bring out a vocal minority of MS-haters. Saying that all Linux users hate Microsoft is just too broad, but unfortunately the few bad apples have given a bad impression about all of us. BSD users, on the other hand, tend to be less fanatical (at least, not vocally so), so while I would guess the same proportion of BSD users hate Windows/Microsoft as Linux users, BSD users haven't been tainted by extremely vocal zealots.
At least, that's my take on the situation.
They have a lot more going on than that. This, for example should give you a good idea of where some of their technology is heading -- to me it looks like they're doing research towards creating "hands-free" interfaces, but it could be something else entirely.
Remember that Hotmail was not always part of Microsoft. Seems like everyone's forgotten that...
Hotmail ran FreeBSD from the get-go (and possibly Solaris and Linux also?), LONG before they were part of Microsoft. Microsoft bought it later, attempted to move it to NT, failed, and so they left it as it was.
My guess is Microso~1 simply needs FreeBSD people to maintain Hotmail as it's always been. This doesn't have anything to do with porting or any new open wource project or any other weird ideas that have been posted here.
Allright, I'll bite. What OS other than Windows NT ends with a capital T?
There are a lot of technically incompetent Linux users with a lot of hate to spit out. BSD programmers tend to be older, more professional. This is NOT a flame. Listen carefully, and you'll see what I mean. Think of all the Microsoft-using kids with their PC's who put a Linux boot on their second partition just to be cool. They don't actually know it much. But they add it to their resumes. I've seen this millions of times. I don't see Microsoft users adding BSD "just for fun" or "to pad their resume".
Is that hotmail ran solaris before the MS takeover, at which point MS tried to switch to a NT solution and found that NT wasnt able to deal with the load as well as solaris was, so they stuck with solaris. FreeBSD may have some place at hotmail, but I'm pretty sure solaris has the primary role.
and i know what you're talking about. this is stan, we've met. we should talk about this, i'll drop you a line.
Um..check this out. I went to McDonald's and they had an ad up saying that they were hiring too! Wow...I was gonna apply there, but now I think I'll work at microsoft instead.
That situation is pretty similiar, right?
Well all those records set by Win NT and 2K were with static content. Hotmail is VERY dynamic.
Ive seen other Microsoft sites besides Hotmail using various *nix flavours. Among them are MSN and MSN home. It would on one hand be a good PR if they ran NT or w2000 but it would be hell if they tried and failded. Pretty strange that a company that gets "best os ever review" on zdnet dont use their own products? This gives a hint cause they probably tried to use their own and failed. A big PR stunt would be if they got w2000 to really work on hotmail but its unlikely to with existing hardware. W2000 has a much bigger overhead than most existing OSs. Just another CNE who swallowed the red pill ;)
Can we just think about this for a second?
This means making MSFT money, while supporting BSD. Then taking that MSFT money, not putting it _into_ BSD (the whole free thing that we keep chatting about) but _also_ not putting it into MSFT.
Seems cheaper then just buying their stock and holding it in a brokerage account you won't let your friends see now that you're wondering what'll happen to Red Hat's valuations.
Microsoft's money is so green even the Government doesn't know how they do it. Sounds like a plum to me, even _with_ reservations about working for MSFT, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em and turn 'em around from the inside since they're hiring you _specifically_ because you aren't an MSFT fan.
Then again, I don't suppose Einstein woulda worked for Germany no matter what they'd paid him, so... there you go.
The source of old "*nix" joke is from the era when AT+T wouldn't even let the Unix vendors call their product "UNIX". It's the same idea as the GNU joke.
Thus you got all of these silly names like SunOS, OSF/1, Irix, and yes even Linux (instead of Sun Unix, Digital Unix (eventually appeared), SGI Unix, and Linus' Unix). It has nothing to do with what you can or can not call it in your meaningless Internet babbling.
Since "UNIX(tm)" got turned over to a trade group, the joke is obsolete, except for the old timers, although it still somewhat applies because Linux and *BSD will never be UNIX certified unless someone forks over some cash.
Other "features" of BSDers:
1) They don't use the term Linux when they mean OpenSource OS. (The Linux camp is heavy into this idea...OpenSource==Linux.)
2) They don't really give a damn if Apple, Microsoft, Linux, or whomever uses thier code. Its a complement that you want to borrow their code.
3) Promotion of OpenSource means *ALL* of it, be it BSDed, GPLed, or whatever the OpenSource licence. The rising tide floats all boats.....
4) Know its a multi-vendor world and work to live in it accordingly.
5) Don't see big companies as the enemy, but rather as someone else who will use the code. And, if they are lucky, the bug fixes will come back, if not...oh well. Hence, the BSD crowd tends to be less upset when a company charges money for the code/improvements to the code.
Microsoft will be more than happy to take code from BSD. And, if they are going to produce an environment that can run Linux software, it will be some form of add-on module to NT. They won't throw away all of the work they did on VMS^H^H^HNT.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
I recieved a call from them a while ago, and interviewed for a position (only to find myself ending up somewhere else, which, in my opinion, is good.) Hotmail is also looking for Solaris (duh) as well as *OpenBSD* admins. Interesting eh?
Here's another interesting tidbit about hotmail which we must remember. Hotmail is it's own company, (except for that whole "being owned by MS" thing) But as of late, they're company policy has been to not use MS software for anything... This is, of course, until MS forces it upon them to migrate to W2K (sometime mid-next year) But i *severely* doubt that that will really go off.
Astutely put! Very nice! (Well, except it's "whoever" :-) I hope you get moderated up.
>It would be easier to port from BSD/Solaris to GNU/Linux, but they'd still be hot water
And why would they want to do this?
Using BSD/Solaris:
"We are using what we have already. It was part of the purchase."
Going to GNU/Linux would offer a 'validation' to GNU/Linux, not to mention run the risk of having to give out the hotmail source code (that GPL thing).
If they are going to move, it will be to MS products. Remember: They "Eat their own dog food". Moving to anything BUT Micro$oft products would be an admission that they can't make their own tools scale to do the job.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
I've also noticed that BSDers don't get all worked up in a religious fury over cult leaders like Richard Stallman or Linux Torvalds. When's the last time you saw a BSDer getting all gushing about anybody?
The Linux job was for a marketing person who would guide their strategy to respond to the competitor, Linux.
This job is for a support engineer for Hotmail.
Stop trying to read anything further into this. No, they are not porting Office applications to FreeBSD. No, they are not coming up with a Linux distro of their own. Just the simple fact that they'd require 100s of people, not just 1, should be a clue. Also, maybe actually reading the job descriptions might tip you off. *sigh*
Mmmm.. Donuts
Yes, for the bazillionth time, MS uses FreeBSD, and BSD/OS, and Solaris. Its not a big deal. How do I know and I'm not talking out my ass? I used to work there! sheesh! :)
Many of you may not remember this, but when windows95.com was launched, it ran BSD/OS 2.0 because Windows couldn't handle it. Big deal.
You've all been hearing about the MS new XML initiative, guess where a shitload of development and testing went on for that, MSN-Linkexchange with FreeBSD. Of course it failed miserably due to protocol implimentation, but hey, its development thats not on Windows.
Now, I wouldn't be too suprised if MS ported IE to Linux, however don't expect Office or anything like that, they'd have to rewrite the thing from scratch almost due to all the WIN32 specific stuff. IE has already been ported to Irix and Solaris, but its not like it works the same as it does on Windows. I tried to navigate MS's intranet with IE5 for Solaris, hah! it didn't work for shit. Same thing with Outlook for Solaris, barely worked. There's a long way to go, and MS has more important places to pay attention.
800.com
Search first, ask questions later.
One thing I noticed in the reqs posted at that site is they are looking to make Microsoft Passport (their single login authentication system) into an Apache module. That's interesting to me because if you look around, the Front Page modules for Apache are among the most widely used (see http://www.e-softinc.com/survey/data/199911/news.h tml#modules).
Front Page's success in owning the non-skilled content development market comes from Microsoft understanding that they need to make it interoperate with the most popular Web server.
If they can get Microsoft Wallet to interoperate, it could become a defacto standard as well.
>Anyway, I seriously doubt MS would start
>promoting software that would adversely
>affect their core business - the Windows OS.
I'd wager that they make more money from MSOffice than MS Windows; and from various support options for their software products than the software itself.
Does anyone have a reference to an actual breakdown of their product profits? What is MS *really* making big bucks on?
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
i threw my resume up on monsterboard a few months ago and got a call a couple days later for a BSD unix development position in San Jose.. for Microsoft.. too bad I wasnt qualified hehe..
Mind you, people often forget that FreeBSD for many years was a VASTLY superior server operating system than Linux. Still is, in many ways today; after all, a large number of Internet Relay Chat servers run FreeBSD.
It's a case of while Linux gets the publicity, FreeBSD "gets the work done." Many high-volume trafficked web sites use FreeBSD, including Hotmail.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Oh, really? Could you enlighten us where did you see that?
If I don't recieve a mail after some time, I will have to assume that you are just painting everything with a brush dipped in a bucket of your own personal bias. A similar process can be used to achieve racism, sexism, and other forms of prejudice.
I dislike being characterized by an extrapolation of your narrow world view.
-jwb
I've seen one too many astroturfing, Bill Gates-ass-kissing, pro-proprietary-software trolls.
I've had enough!
Congratulations, assholes. You've destroyed Slashdot, which was once a decent UNIX discussion site.
...so Microsoft is looking for replacement.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Remember guys, Microsoft employees may be part of the Borg collective and a microscopic cog in Mr. Bill's catastrophic plan, but at heart they're just like us: compu-geeks. Sure they may be working a suck ass gig right now, but they're not inhuman freaks because of it. They put their pant on one leg at a time just like you and I. The funny machine names are just a reminder of this fact. Now, if they used names like destroyallthatisgoodanddecent.hotmail.com or billismygodnow.hotmail.com, then I'd be worried.
-Akikage
Hotmail always ran on BSD/SUn, but then MS bought them. Microsoft tried to switch their BSD/SUN servers once, but couldn't do it. So they are basically stuck with them until they can get a better version of Windows.
Do you work for or with MS? (How else would you know?)
I originally posted the comment - I intended no paranoia at all. I might have called the company micros~1, but I didn't express any negative opinion toward them or say that I thought it was bad that they wanted people for BSD. I was just stating opinion.
:)
Before you get paranoid about people getting paranoid, please read the comment and think about it.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
Obviously, you meant to say: I've never heard of anybody switching from Linux to Microsoft. Remember to use preview!
Moderated to the top? I post with a base score of 2, which is where it's at now.
Jumping to an unwarranted conclusion? I figured my post had "speculation" written all over it. It was my thoughts attached to the article, which is what I thought comments were for. Sorry for being so unpopular.
Oh, and by the way, I did read the article, and I do realize that they were looking for admins for hotmail. I just don't think that it's way out in left field for them to consider hiring BSD programmers after looking for linux programmers, with the given facts that both are increasing in popularity and practically none of their products run on these platforms.
If you don't like the comment, ignore it. Don't just whine or meta-whine.
If *I* had a nickel for every time somebody posted a comment that said "Oh woe is me, slashdot is going down the drain that people can express themselves and throw ideas out there" then I'd be a rich, rich man.
It's just a comment, so settle down.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
One of my friends just quit as their top project/admin guy out there. He's going to yahoo. That's what the search is all about. A couple others left as well.
You're lying. There's no such thing as a server operating system. Recast without that word if you want the truth.
NT has a lot more OS/2 code than VMS. NT 3.51 supported the HPFS filesystem that OS/2 uses. In fact NT4 will still run OS/2 2.11 binaries, so whats that tell you?
You actually think that it was people like you who made this site entertaining? Thank God you're leaving, and don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.
Every BSDer that I've met or conversed with has regarded Windows as the something spontaneously produced by a violently ill camel ever so lightly garnished with lark's vomit.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I've never heard anyone say, "I like Microsoft products so much I am going to start using Linux instead of NT."
you said that I said:
I've never heard of anybody switching from Microsoft to a Linux
Which are two totally different things! What sane person would have an option that they're totally happy with, and decide to switch to something totally different. That would be like saying, "I really like Ford cars, I've been ever so happy with their cost, performance, appearance, etc., etc. Therefore, I will buy a Toyota."What person would switch from one option that they love, to another, unless forced to do so (i.e., bosses)?
And, in conclusion, please don't misquote me! :)
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
Sorry about that, I have my moderation set too high so I don't see those AC posts, which lists your post as though it were a reply to mine.... sorry. :(
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
Novell Netware. You must now eat your shoe.
Well, you would have a good point, except for all those kiddies who installed linux to be cool have now installed FreeBSD because Linux got too popular. These are the more rabid X rules and everything sucks types, which I've noticed have infested the FreeBSD community lately (not that this means they've left the linux community, unfortunately). I can't decide where they'll go once FreeBSD gets too popular for them. NetBSD, HURD, or QNX?
No, I said that the person who responded to you, who is the person to whom I was responding, said that, which they DID .
I did read the post, I just don't think it's that strange for somebody to think that microsoft might be thinking about a port under the circumstances. (Circumstances being that BSD and linux are gaining in popularity, they've hired unix folks before, and practically none of their software runs on UNIX)
:) But we all know that that would be trollish BS. :)
You want paranoia? I could have said, "It's only a matter of time before CmdrTaco jumps ship and goes to work for microsoft!!!!"
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
Bah, it won't get moderated up.
the post was not slamming M$, stroking the reader and telling them that Linux will be a win.
/. is a pro-linux site...any voice that isn't pro-linux will not get moderated up.
and that is too bad. Because EVERYONE can win with open source, not just linux.
GNU/Linux is very viable as both a server and desktop platform. Almost all free software (even evil copylefted software that you can always port no matter who added their two-cents to the code) has been ported to other Unix-like operating systems. BSD deserves a lot of respect as an operating system.
Why can't we all just "get along"?
Of course, it will be a cold day in Hell before Microsoft release any improvements to Apache to the outside world. Apache is the competition, after all, and an Apache server is one which will not be running IIS. It'd be against MS's interests to do anything that would deprive IIS of any advantages (such as MS's proprietary technologies).
Of course, if MS is split up and IIS and Hotmail go their separate ways, that could very well change.
For those who say "bring it on" keep in mind that they aren't just hiring people for their skills in the OS to implement a Microsoft version. They are looking to get all of what we have come to love working in their Windows OS! So, instead of saying bring it on, don't worry they will. Lets just be sure we do the same and implement all of what people love about windows into linux. Pick up your debugger & get writing!
------ Imagination is Greater than Knowledge (Albert Einstein) Every day is a good day, whether you like it or not (DM
)I can't decide where they'll go once FreeBSD gets too popular for them. NetBSD, HURD, or QNX? Amiga ;)
"Last words are for fools who haven't said enough." - Karl Marx
##DELEX
SOURCE sid=99/12/15/179206 pid=44#57
FROM enigma.microsoft.com
USER salamander
PWD &^@#jfn*jHDU46832
QUIT
If I were an astroturfer on Billy G's payroll, I'd try to start the kind of inter-freeware flame fest comments like yours tend to engender. BSD is very good at some things and not so good at others. Ditto for Linux. Even Windows, for all of its numerous and severe flaws, has its uses (extreme masochism comes to mind, as does playing a few games unavailable on the other platforms. :-))
It's a case of while Linux gets the publicity, FreeBSD "gets the work done." Many high-volume trafficked web sites use FreeBSD, including Hotmail.
Not true. It is a case of BSD starting out with a solid base of code while Linux was written from scratch. FreeBSD had the misfortune of having its legal status put into question at a critical juncture -- a period of time where people like myself were looking for a good, open UNIX for our PCs and ended up joining the Linux camp because it was unambigiously free, while *BSD looked like it might be shut down by the attourneys of Berkely.
Fortunately for us all, the legal issues were resolved and BSD is thriving in its own way, here to compete with and cross-polinate with Linux. Had there not been this legal limbo during those critical few months, we would probably all be dancing on the BSD bandwagen, and Linux would be the "alternative" OS.
Argue the pros and cons of BSD and Linux if you like, or even the BSD License vs. the GPL if you like, but save your prejudicial innuendo for an appropriate forum such as alt.flame please.
Oh, and by the way, as parallel examples of Linux performing similar duties to BSD, consider deja.com and google.com. Both OSes are excellent and have many things in common, not the least of which they both outperform any and all of Microsoft's offerings by orders of magnitude.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
There are so many conclusions being drawn here, but it seems to me that Microsoft is simply being pragmatic. It says in one of the job descriptions that they are basically programming an Apache module that is essentially the guts of hotmail. It seems to me that it's not a religious issue - they have something that works and it looks as if they aren't going to try to run it on NT, but just keep developing it the way it is. If it works, why mess with it? Maybe they've learned something? Naw.. ?
Here is my take at this. Remember Vax folks went to Microsoft! I am wondering if Bsd folks with all their not so well hidden jealousy towards Linux will do the same! That actually would be a good way for Microsoft to hurt Linux! We will see anyway!
Jeez, you guys are as bad as MSNBC sometimes.
They filter out all MS anti-trust news. You guys filter out all "non free" UNIX stuff.
Half the UNIX jobs are BSD, and half are Solaris. If you actually read the link, you'll see that they are also looking to fill some "high end" positions, which (not surprisingly) are all Sun.
warez.slashdot.org. 3600 IN A 127.0.0.1
--- i am art
Everyone seems to forget that hotmail wasn't always owned by microsoft. It's amusing that they weren't willing or able to port it to NT, but it's hardly a sign that redmond will implement any *nix solutions in the future.
pinche
- slappin the taste back into ya mouth since 1975.