Slashdot Mirror
MS Tells How to Delete Linux, Install NT or Win2K
Ion Berkley writes "Should we feel flattered or threatened that Microsoft now provides
on-line instructions on how to delete Linux from your hard drive
and replace it with 2000/NT? The only thing that suprises me about
this is that they don't try to sell you a Microsoft tool to use in
place of fdisk."
How many HOWTO's and such tell how to delete Win* and install Linux?
Anyone else find it amusing that the faq actually only tells you how to delete linux? For installing windows it only says "Install Windows 2000 or Windows NT."
Obviously, these guys passed their OS courses in college with flying colours...
How's my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULL
Microsoft at least know has a slight respect for Linux, in so far as they want to take back market share lost to it.
The implications are deep, and Microsoft is pushing buttons we haadn't thought of.
What if MS starts offering a discount for a paid Linux CD? Then Linux loses nothing. Why? You can get free CDs. You can download it to CD-R. You can't do that w/ Windows legally.
But now Linux must start becoming even more user friendly, or the MS repo tactic will be very successful.
However, how many Linux users do you know that want to install Windows on their Linux machine?
Please go to After Y2K (www.nitrozac.com) and vote for geek number 1 (me!) in the look-a-like contest!
I would think that anyone that has gotten linux on their computer knows atleast how to fdisk it off.. Like what are the chances of you buying a computer with linux on it and you really want windows instead? I guess it shows how paranoid they really are.
1. Get a Linux Cd or Download a distro
2. Format c:\
3. Install Linux on your windows-free drive
"Join the collective, they said.
:-)
Browse the web, they said.
I'd rather be Linuxing."
Seriously, it's a true tip of the hat to the Linux crowd that they'd tell people how to "get rid of" the competition. Now that the DOJ has barked at them, they didn't include the usual code that would let the software molest the Linux install
This seems to be a proper sign that they see us as the enemy, not any of the BSDs or BeOS. Despire the Judges findings of fact, too. I'd chalk the "Halloween" documents of last year up to "look at your competiton, Judge" as the timing was just too perfect, but this...
---
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
They gotta have hopes too no?
he he...
In Your Microwave
1. Open Door
2. Insert CD
3. Set Power To High
4. Set time to 5 sec
5. Press START
I wouldn't think threatened, but definitly insulted. The underlying assumption they're making by putting up such a page is
Blender And Linux Fan
Interesting. The only reason I can see for this is that microsoft perceives that there is now a serious threat that a large number of consumers will be purchasing PC's preinstalled with alternative OS's, which even a couple months ago was next to impossible to conceive of. What I wonder is if this we will see any advertising campaigns targeted at these users to get them to dump their preinstalled OS and go with windows? microsoft does a lot of generic advertising right now, but not many (big time) companies do OS specific advertising. Sun kind of comes to mind, but like the mac they're looking to sell a whole system, not just an OS.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
I find it interesting that it states that the file systems that Linux and Windows use are incompatible... they are, to an extent, but they say it in such a manner that dismisses all possibility of a dual boot option- heaven forbid.
Also noted is how they state that file Linux can recognize the filesystems of Microsoft (and over 40 other) partition types, yet their Windows is ignorant of all but its own.
Just something to think about.
You'll eat it and you'll like it.
I find it interesting that they refer to the Linux version of Fdisk and not insert disk one of your 9x setup disks and boot to the command prompt then type in fdisk using the MS version or the version on Disk One of NT 4 Setup.
I wonder if Win2K will release a migration tool from unix like they did with Novell and NT4 Server?
The MyTh - I am a figment of the Imagination - [Im Probably even not here]
Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types, such as:
FAT 12 (Type 01)
FAT 16 > 32 M Primary (Type 06)
FAT 16 Extended (Type 05)
FAT 32 w/o LBA Primary (Type 0b)
FAT 32 w/LBA Primary (Type 0c)
FAT 16 w/LBA (Type 0e)
FAT 16 w/LBA Extended (Type 0f)
And here I thought in the FUD war that they would not go about admitting to things like this. AFAIK NT does not adress this number of partiton types, (it can't do 40 can it?).
This is good. They now formally see us as a threat. The "laughing" stage is over, and the fighting stage it in full swing. (Not that it wasn't before, but it becomes more prominent with this, because Linux is currently more of a threat to Win2K Pro than the 98 kernel.)
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
All of the Linux install instructions I've seen have been designed to coexist with a previous Windows installation. Never have I seen a Linux install which says, "Here is how to delete your Windows partition." Yet here we have Microsoft telling you how to delete your Linux partition in order to install a Windows product, not how to install Windows to coexist with Linux. Quite interesting...
"Log in as root for one last time. Savor the feeling, as you will be logging in as administrator from now on"
"The partition types used by the Linux and Windows operating systems are incompatible - because we haven't bothered to try to add compatability, why bother, we rule."
Well, at least they advised to back up your Linux files in case you ever want to go back.
later,
kristau
I followed all the instructions for making a boot disk, backing up my data, starting from the disk, etc etc... I put in the Win2K CD to install, but nothing works! Hmm... I don't think M$ is ready to ship Win2K yet. It's having problems installing on on my Mac. :)
World domination? Bah. Mighty sad, M$. I wonder whose great idea it was to make THAT document?
it definately goes under humor!
It's not as though lots of people are getting linux preinstalled on their OEMed purchases and get home and realize they'd rather be using a MS operating system.
Anyone who knows how to install it will know how to uninstall it. It'd be much more helpful for them to post some better documentation for installing Windows itself. It's not as though that's a walk in the park. But then, they never were quite as willing to improve their own products as they were to tear down their competitors'.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
The way that guide was written it sure made linux sound a helluva lot like M$-DOS (i.e. really dumbed down.)
"Don't let school interfere with your education."
-Mark Twain
"Don't let school interfere with your education." -Mark Twain
By the way, where are all these secret command line switches to DOS fdisk documented? Anything besides /mbr? And where can I find a (freely available, NOT on premium.microsoft.com) list of command line switches for EXPLORER.EXE. WHY IS THIS FUCKING SOFTWARE THAT I PAID FOR, REPEAT PAID FOR, HAVE SO DAMN MANY SECRET COMMANDS I HAVE TO FUCKING PAY MORE (?!) TO M$ TO FIND OUT ABOUT???? Sorry. Just ranting. MS reeeeally pisses me off sometimes.
The target for this artical is for windows users who tried out linux and want to swtich back. it's obvoisly not FUD or any anti-linux campaining.
./'s out their who can't get enough of MS vs. Linux debats, which i am personally sick to death of.
also i don't think this is news worthy except for the
-Jon
this is my sig.
Interesting write-up. Linux filesystems are incompatable with Windows. But Linux can support more than 40 different filesystem types.
:)
And, unless this is written for a complete nugget, the user actually started from a known OS, and *upgraded*. With partition changes and modifications.
And what happed to all of my research data in the linux system. I guess Microsoft doesn't care.
IMHO, this was written by directive by a microsoft agent forced into the linux world. Let's find this good stranger and encourage him to write more good prose.
*It is the fear of complexity that keeps computers out of the bathroom*
likely smart enough to be able to figure out how to uninstall it on their own and
not likely to want to uninstall it.
/me is lol at the comment about them not offering a commercial alternative to fdisk. Just a quick question- have they to date produced any kind of a tool which senses, understands, and can edit/remove Linux, *BSD, and/or other *NIX partitions? I don't think they have... of course, I've been wrong before, so don't take my word for it.
Now, I admit that there are a few people who've seen Linux who might want to uninstall it, and B might be a moot point. But honestly- who here who's used Linux wants to go back to Microsoft's software? Anyone?
On a completely unrelated note,
With lots of "he he"s and "ha ha"s...
kinda fun, entertaining a member of borg....I hear they don't see the sun much.
-b
Seriously though, Microsoft has released Unix compatible tools (NFS, for one) that are quite cool. Perhapse supporting other file system types will come as demand increases?
- The document says: "LILO can be configured to start from... The root folder (superblock) of the Linux partition." First, no Linux user calls anything non-manilla a folder. And the superblock is not the same thing as the root directory.
- "'Superblock' in Linux terminology means that the Linux partition should be the active partition." Um, no. Active partitions are a separate concept from superblocks. Two wrong, yet conflicting, definitions of superblock in just two sentences. Wow!
- [Nitpick] They tell you to delete all partitions; perhaps one already has a dual-boot and ought to keep his Windoze partitions.
- When we type fdisk
/mbr, we ought to be in DOS, yet the previous step instructed us to but a Linux bootable CD or disk in and wait for the command prompt. Then again, they could just have us do the whole thing with the MS fdisk, but that'd be too logical, I guess.
And I haven't even argued with the point of the document yet...Just to go a little overboard trying to psychoanalyse this (because I'm pretty sure they don't intend the page to be a big deal):
Everyone right now sees Linux as the 'new', 'hip' OS and Windows as the old, possibly tired standard. By producing pages like this, MicroSoft could be hoping to turn things around and create the idea that NT/win2k are now the freshest and most happnin' products, i.e:
"hey, well you _were_ using linux, but look what microsoft have now! Here's how to get rid of that old thing!"
/james.
you mean they don't own fdisk yet?
Having been in the situation before, there's a reason for them to give you instructions on how to remove any other OS... The Microsoft Windows/DOS fdisk took is rather silly when it comes to removing non-fat partitions.
/X that would allow you to blast away partitions that weren't DOS, but I can't say for sure if this is still here.
/X option, you would normally have to tell FDISK to re-install the MBR, using another hidden option. FDISK /MBR will clean up the mess that /X leaves.
:)
In fact, it's pretty well impossible to remove a Linux partition from within Windows, and it's really for no good reason.
There used to be a hidden switch: FDISK
After using the hidden
After all this, it's really clear why they felt the need to give instructions that don't rely on undocumented switches to their software.
This is actually really funny! first, like anyone that has ever installed Linux does not no how to get rid of it and second would want to get rid of it.
In the 4+ years I've use Linux I have never though, "Hey you know I think I'll redo this server with NT." In fact the very concept makes be chuckle.
If I were the person that found this, I think I would be severly insulted, but as it stands now, it's simply funny. I wonder what they would do if there were instructions and a disk that showed "how to delete windows"...
You know, sometimes I wonder what I would do with my spare time if I didn't have so many handy distractions.
I did technical supervision for a number of techs for a large computer company for some years. You'd be surprised how the numbers of customers calling in for help removing Linux (if they even could pronounce it correctly *tear*) skyrocketed over the last year. Most clients hear the benefits of Linux but find themselves terribly ill prepared to work in such an OS.
I think it's a bit of a long jump to assume that a single M$ support doc reinforces Linux's competitive value against M$ products, and is somehow an attack on Linux. We also had to develop a support doc for our (less capable) techs to help the increasing # of customers who wanted to go back to Windows. Our more experienced techs assisted clients in dual booting so they could experiment in Linux, but keep the computer productive until they had things going in Linux.
I think it does provide a good sign that Linux indeed is getting allot of good attention from people who are willing to move to a new OS, but find current distributions too difficult to begin with. Perhaps if newer distributions were easier to use, customers would be more willing to stay. Many of them want to learn how to use Linux, but do not have the resources (or time) necessary to switch without a massive amount of bother.
In the meantime, the calls keep coming.
They said to keep your linux cd so you can reinstall it later... Apparently they have no faith that people who have used linux will keep NT longer than until they realize that there is solitaire on linux too.
my pathetic opinion
David
Ah - so that's why Microsoft is looking for Linux and FreeBSD techies, they needed to know how to "uninstall" it.
- Detritus
"The Penguin is Mightier than the Sword"
this article is kinda like saying "if you'd like to cut off your head, here are the instructions"!
good for a chuckle, tho
cheers
Actually, somebody is missing the point here. How about creating a dual-boot situation with Windows 2000 Professional in one partition and Linux in another partition? Are the people who created Partition Magic working on this?
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
So you (for example, not you personally, ok?) are a Linux newbie and you trust Microsoft for aid in getting Win NT on your box after Linux has been installed by that Zealot down the hall. Here's how to do it, plain and simple. Nowhere does it say that Linux is inferior. It even makes sure you have a backup of Linux in case you want to install it at a later date. (Go _read_ it!)
This is hardly Microsoft running scared. Hardly Microsoft taking over the world. Hardly Microsoft killing Linux with one fell swoop. For crying out loud, lighten up!!
This is it! Everyone, get rid of your Linux and install that Win thing before Bill gets you.
Hmm... is that really suprising? They probably had a working version of it, but had trouble making room for the 970MB installation program on the test machine, then the ftp server they were storing it on crashed, then someone opened a MS Word attachment that flooded the server with email responses, then...
:)
--Mid
Okay, so now we know why MS was looking to hire Linux experts. Apparently they have now hired at least one person who might or might not have ever booted Linux. Now, will Microsoft give us an instruction page on how to uninstall IE? And why is SMS (systems management server) a tool and NetBus, BackOrifice, etc. are all viruses? But seriously, I really could not care less that MS is telling folks how to uninstall Linux. Anyone capable of installing Linux should be capable of uninstalling (as if anyone would want to do such a thing). Also, I have noticed of late that there are many pro-MS /. readers. Pro-FUDders, if you will. Yes, they have the right to speak freely, but I can't help but begin to wonder where they are coming from. If they are so hellbent on promoting MS, there are lots of pro-MS sites on the net. And I'm willing to bet they are not going to convert any Linux, Mac, BeOS, BSD, etc. users who come here to get away from FUDville. Uninstall this, Microsoft.
Windows is going the way of phlogiston...
I (stupidly) installed Win98 on what was to become a dual boot Linux/98 system (Linux was installed first). 98 FUCKED MY LINUX PARTITIONS UP. It no boot linux no more. The linux partitions are still there but 98 did something to them. The emergency boot floppy with fsck(1) can't seem to clean things up either. Looks like I'll have to reinstall Linux. Damn.
The partition types used by the Linux and Windows operating systems are incompatible.
A curious definition of "incompatible". Last I checked, my notebook had Linux and Windows partitions coexisting quite nicely, and Linux could access them all. Is it _our_ fault that _Microsoft's_ product is deficient in this area?
The Linux operating system is generally installed on partition type 83 (Linux native) or 82 (Linux swap).
Hey, how many people have installed Linux on the swap partition?
The Linux boot manager (LILO) can be configured to start from:
I think the lilo README says it far better:
"Superblock" in Linux terminology means that the Linux partition should be the active partition.
Well, since every (formatted) ext2 partition has a super block, that would be a bit difficult, wouldn't it?
Remove native, swap, and boot partitions used by Linux:
Hey, you told us about the native and swap partition types, but what is this "boot partition" type?
Insert either a bootable floppy disk or a bootable CD-ROM for the Linux operating system on your computer, and then press CTRL+ALT+DELETE to restart your computer.
Good...
Remove LILO. To remove the LILO, type fdisk
Well, no. Since you booted from a Linux disk, assuming that you did that from the shell, you'd get:
Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types,
Closer to eighty, but I guess when comparing it to Windows, which is brain damaged and only recognizes things like
FAT 12 (Type 01)
FAT 16 > 32 M Primary (Type 06)
FAT 16 Extended (Type 05)
FAT 32 w/o LBA Primary (Type 0b)
FAT 32 w/LBA Primary (Type 0c)
FAT 16 w/LBA (Type 0e)
FAT 16 w/LBA Extended (Type 0f)
I guess they didn't want to make Windows look too bad in comparison (although they forgot to mention the NTFS partition types which Linux knows about). Well, I guess that I'll just tell them that their "information" didn't answer my question.
Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types, such as:
- FAT 12 (Type 01)
- FAT 16 > 32 M Primary (Type 06)
- FAT 16 Extended (Type 05)
- FAT 32 w/o LBA Primary (Type 0b)
- FAT 32 w/LBA Primary (Type 0c)
- FAT 16 w/LBA (Type 0e)
- FAT 16 w/LBA Extended (Type 0f)
For some reason, they mention it as if it is obvious and common-place, last I checked, Win98 could barely read NTFS filesystems...hehe...-Davidu
# Hack the planet, it's important.
If it's got C: it ain't a "windows free drive".
What's even better is this one:
:)
Windo ws Overwrites Linux Boot Manager
SYMPTOMS
When you install Microsoft Windows on a computer that has the Linux operating system installed, Windows may overwrite or deactivate the Linux boot manager (LILO, or Linux Loader). As a result, you can no longer access the Linux operating system.
They also tell you this:
Remov ing the Linux LILO Boot Manager
When Linux is installed on your computer, it allows a dual boot by loading a boot manager called LILO directly into the MBR. To remove LILO, perform the following steps...
Wheeeeee.
Uh, maybe I'm all alone on left field here, but it looks a hell of a lot like MS is getting ready to produce MS linux. The whole structure of the web page seems to be how to uninstall linux, not how to install Win 2k or Win NT over it. Notably WinNT 4.0 better not be a beta, or MS has some answering to do. Probably just my stupidity. Also anyone know what the kb in kbsetup and kbhowto is all about?
Also, you must have a full release version of the Windows operating system you want to install.
Does that mean I can't use a Windows CD I ripped from a friend?
------------------------------------------------
Oh please, oh please, just give me one BSOD for old time's sake...
Wait... aw nuts.
As far as fdisk goes, MS probably still thinks they own fdisk - after all, it came with MSDOS, and the Linux version is merely a superior imitation.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Perhaps someone should create a web site that describes how to get rid of Windows 9x/NT/2000 from your computer. Now that would be useful!
I think Microsoft probably realizes that if someone asked the question on how to remove Linux on a Linux newsgroup or a Linux IRC channel that'd get flamed to death. I've seen it happen many times already.
My first Linux distribution CD, in 1994 (ish) was from a company called Yggdrasil. It shipped on a single CD and a boot floppy - just pop the floppy in your PC (booting from CD wasn't even thought of in PC-land back then), stick the CD in your drive, and wait a few minutes - you instantly had a fulling working Linux machine running so you could evaluate it before you installed anything on your disk. That was actually an *awesome* way of showing Linux off to my fellow co-workers - it didn't destroy anything, yet it showed you what you got... and if you wanted, you could move over to your hard disk and thus have a writable filesystem to work on. But it seems that those days are over - I wonder if they'll ever come back? It'd be awesome, given the speed and power (and RAM capabilities - maybe we'd get a small ramdisk for /home or something) of todays PC's, to have a demo CD that booted Linux in read only mode (except for the ramdisk, maybe), didn't change anything, and gave you a glimpse of the OS without any liability whatsoever... If RedHat/Mandrake/SUSE/Debian/etc. could pull this off, demo's of Linux' capabilities would be so much slicker... Anyone know of any distro's that can do that today, like the good old days of Yggdrasil?
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
What's really pathetic about this is that the NT installer apparently doesn't give you the opportunity to correctly repartition/reformat your drive. That would, of course, be the obvious way to handle this situation.
Screwing up the installer, and then hiding the fix in a very poorly written tech note is typical MS.
You just use Loadlin... it boots you into linux and you edit your /etc/lilo.conf and add your windows partition. Then at a command prompt type 'lilo'
We have like 30 people or so where I work, and for *licensing issues* alone, we're a hair's breadth from going to Corel Linux and Staroffice.
My boss has messed around with the box I set up for him, and is fairly happy with the two products.
We might wait until the next release of StarOffice, but if the new Win2K breaks anything, or causes us more licensing problems, it could provide a catalyst to go for it at that point.
I did it with Mozilla M12, just in case they look at their useragents. =)
Guys, take a look at the Red Hat installation manual. I have in my hand a copy of the manual that came with 5.2, but it's basically the same as the 6.0 manual. The Red Hat manual describes, in detail, how to remove Windows from your hard drive. Big freaking deal. Red Hat tells you how to remove Windows, Microsoft tells you how to remove Linux. Do you expect Microsoft to help you install Linux? Or Red Hat to help you install Windows?
Grow up, folks.
--
This isnt really clear, they talk about using linux fdisk's to remove partitions (haha they cant even provide tool to manipulate partitions:) and then tell us to type fdisk /mbr...i dont have any mbr device in my root directory! ;-)
---
I don't mind if Bill is getting rich. More power to him. I'll even consider buying an alternative to Linux that does a better job of providing what I chose Linux for:
Originally I just went on listing things I like about Linux, but I thought better of it. The bottom line is that I like having a programmer's environment, and I want it accessible and a part of all of the tools. That's where Unix started. The free software community has carried the idea further. It is a different mindset. It is a different style of usage. It is the idea that the user should not be presented with an interface that makes many common tasks efficient, but in which further optimization is hard. Linux puts the UI optimization into the user's hands if the user wants it.
The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
The general rule is to install Microsoft operating systems first, than any other operating systems. Microsoft writes their installation software on the assumption that they can trash any existing MBRs, boot blocks and partitions.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
So here's just the first question that pops into my mind.
What major computer company ships computers with Linux and does not have windows as an option ( and I dont mean VA or Penguin ). Generally windows is the default OS and Linux is a "special" order or at least outside the norm.
SO why in hell would someone who has Linux on there computer want to replace it with Windows NT? Since its very liely a given that the person expressly wanted Linux to be there in the first place? %#$*&????
In fact in probably still the majority of cases, the reason Linux is on the computer is the person using it installed it themselves, either in addtion to or in replacement of Windows.
SO WHY DO WE NEED AN MS SUPPORTS ARTICLE ON HOW TO REMOVE IT. ?????? !!!!!
Yeah, they forgot: (i) Go to Staples (ii) Pay $xxx.xx for W2K. Note that it comes with improved version of Notepad! (iii) Break seal on packaging immediately.
Toasted my Mandrake partition in favour of W2K. Didn't need any help from MS though.
"In Linux terminology superblock means the" partition is active.
Huh? In UNIX terminology "superblock" means roughly the same thing as "FAT" on a DOS filesystem (e.g. the place you write central filesystem metadata). You'd think they could use some of those Linux savy people they've been hiring to to a tech eval of these documents.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha ... ... ... ...
But seriously, I think they
Bwaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha
Na. This has got to be like an easter egg, unsanctioned, but allowed.
he he he he
Remove Linux for NT ? he he he he
Oh god I will have a smile on my face today!
Bwaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha hah
... should stop being so naive.
...
Careful study of Microsofts previous tactics in the information warfare department reveal that they do indeed use directives such as this to kick off FUD campaigns.
Maybe you don't have much of a concept of exactly *how* damaging a message from Microsoft such as "this computer is running a non-MS version of DOS, and Windows may not work" type message can be to the average end user in terms of making an informed and intelligent decision, but articles like this on Slashdot are intended to make you *learn* from lessons lost by previous computer people.
The fact is, this little gem of 'support information' about Linux, and how Linux is so cryptic and 'not compatible with Windows', carefully propagated around the computer user community can be very effective in terms of market control. This 'support information' isn't really support - it's a clever way of indicating that you might be helped by removing Linux from your system, and here's how to do it so that you can install Win2k
If you're in the computer industry and intend to survive in it, you'd be wise to at least stop being so naive a little bit, and start looking behind the curtain. Even if just a little bit.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
One of em was "its hard to find Linux support." Cross that one off the list now, too. :-D
User friendliness would be a great thing to see in Linux! I'm a new Linux user, and I am having a hell of a time getting my sound card (Soundblaster Live!) going. I actually am a programmer by profession, so I'm not a computing idiot. I'm currently dual-booting w/ Win 98 and Linux, but "recompiling my kernel" just does not sound like a fun time. A Linux distro bent towards the home user or dabbler would be a good thing. Posting as anonymous coward so I don't get flamed.
I got a good laugh from Steve Forbes during one of the debates (the NH one) calling it Loon-ix
And he seemed to have a coherent and dare I say 'with-it' argument forming about up-and-coming competitors to M$
GodDAMN, some of you people are so fucking stupid. Not only did they not put any negative, incorrect information in the article, they didn't say anything negative about Linux in the article at all. Do you even know what FUD is, or do you just yell it out at random when things don't go your way?
Gee, they sure were silly to post this information since nd and his Slashdot buddies pointed out how useless it is. Sounds like a great reason to post it for that fact alone.
I was going to post this same story about the sad broken MS Fdisk program that results in the catch-22 that you detail, but you did it better. How many billions to keep foisting that crap on people?
I noted that the article "Did not apply to my situation."
that the DOS fdisk can't delete. Primary are not a problem.
Tell me again why I have to delete my Linux partition? Why can't I just free some space with Partition Magic and then install Windows on a separate partition? Will Win2k will not function unless it is the only OS on my computer?
Microsoft: This is where you will go today.
The dog ate my
You are having problems with the one thing that is the hardest in Linux- Sound. I find it fascinating that you can setup a dozen machines, duplicate hard drives, distribute accross a WAN, setup SAMBA to connect, map everything via NFS for shared directories and do it in a single afternoon with no problems. But you have problems getting sound working. Don't gripe about me, I love the system and use constantly, but none of these systems have got sound running on them.
/\/\3 t00, d00dZ!!1!1
Just by a distribution and follow the on-screen instructions.
I AIM-ed teh story over to him (using TiK) and this was his response:
...: that's sick! ...: they actualy do that? ...: if you have linux, you don't need direction ...: s
00:14:13 [name deleted]: lol
00:14:18
00:14:23
00:14:32
00:14:33
I thought this was a bit enlightening, perhaps of some interest...
Boo!
Considering Microsoft has offered instructions on how to convert OS/2* and Novell systems for years, Linux users should see this as a compliment! They're finally in the big league.
* DOS 6.0 included a text file which stated something like "Congratulations on your choice to upgrade OS/2 to MS-DOS 6.0!" Some upgrade.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Microsoft is way out of line here. They sould not be allowed to give instructions to remove such a wonderful operating system from a computer. It honestly surprises me that the dumbasses don't just try to charge people for a shitty program to remove Linux for them just to make it "easier". Then again, for all the good it would do, somone would have to be pretty damn stupid to want to remove Linux from their system.
-- Napalm sticks to kids.
Your brain is incompatible with Windows2500. To install Windows2500 you have to first remove your brain. There are some steps to achieve this:
1. Get a vacuum pump. We recomend an industrial strenght pump for better preformance
2. Insert a tube into one of your nostrils. On the other insert Windows2500 Install Bug (TM)
3. Turn on the pump. Note that while your brain is being sucked you may feel a little dizzy.
4. When our MS Bug Wizard (TM) will detect that no brain remains lay inside your skull, it will preform installation automatically.
Enjoy your new installation.
With all these hits of people trying to uninstall linux and get windows back. Who can debate the ultimate triumph of microsoft inovation.
All thanks to Slashdot
With a propaganda budget the revials most countries GNP who can doubt it.
phulish people with phulish thoughts.
So why don't they write some instructions out on installing a 'doze installation AFTER you've installed Linux or OS/2 (or FreeBSD or whatever) without destroying what you already have on the drive. There's absolutely no reason why their install program should refuse to install the software, but every time I've ever tried it, it has.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Uh. I've got Slack7 from WC(it was $15 at the local Microcenter...$40 from WC?! no way!). One of the CDs(#3? I think) is a bootable CD. It's got KDE working (type "startx" after logging in as root). I used it to test it out on my Gateway Solo2500 laptop. KDE worked nicely, although the windows were drawn rather slow...? Then I just booted back to Win98 and everything worked as before. I'm not sure what's wrong with SuSE. Slack works for me.
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."
Here are the steps to remove Win2K and 98/95 from your computer. 1: Insert bootable floppy with CD-ROM support 2: Boot system up 3: Type fdisk /mbr 4: Type format c: /q 5: Insert Linux CD of choice 6: Type d: 7: Type cd dosutils 8: Type autoboot. And then install your favorite flavor of Linux.
The (somewhat vague) language of the page suggests that Win2000 may not coexist with Linux. This could be just cluelessness or FUD; OTOH, I wouldn't put it past MS to out in a few hidden "features" to encourage customer loyalty by making it harder to use Linux and Win2000 on the same system. Sort of like the way they did in DR DOS.
Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types, such as:
Did anyone else notice this masked bit of praise?
That cute lil' page M$ has a little comment box...I'd encourage all slashdot users to send a comment. Toodlez all....
Given that MS-DOS fdisk.exe can't even delete NTFS partions, I like this debug script that will obliterate your hard disk. very handy for automated deployments but very dangerous. This script is not for the faint of heart. Just dump the following into a text file and pipe it into debug and presto your hard disk is as good as new!
delpart.txt
a:\>debug.exe<delpart.txthttp://winpatch.hypermart.net/kb.pl?q24 7804
It's cached. Just change the article number for other Knowledge Base articles.
10Brett-T
Oh, bother.
It all becomes clear now.. They couldnt figure out how to remove Linux without a linux admins help .FreeBSD users beware.. Your custom MS Uninstall routine, as innovative as ever, is on its way.
How to stop the vacuum pump.
The relatives of several potential users reported a bug in the installation of Windows2500. According to reports, many users could not install Windows2500 as the vacuum pump remained turned on. Due to this Windows2500 was sucked by the pump, aborting the installation. Due to a bug in the human body, caused by a timeout in certain functions, most users died.
To issue this problem we have created a workaround. To install Windows2500 you need the assistence of a third person, preferably a person with Windows2500 already installed. He must control the work of the vacuum pump. However this issue should be taken with extreme care:
1. The pump should not be turned of too early. The vacuum force should give time for Installation Bug (TM) to enter the brain.
2. Any cerebral remains may cause the Bug to work incorrectly.
3. If the pump is turned off to late this may result in irrevocable damage.
We are now working on a Service Patch to conclusively issue the problem.
holy shit! that can't be an accident. is it really true? I have to use windows, I hope that doesn't mean I can't use linux anymore.
The really interesting bit is where they say to verify you have backups if you intend to restore Linux. They actually admit you may want to go back after trying NT! 8)
After a zillion years of installing RedHat without a hitch, out comes 6.1 and promptly gives me an X11 fault immediately at the start of an install, on a system that has been running older RedHats happily for ages. To a beginner, that Red Screen of Death ("Change signal timing") would be utterly meaningless, and terminal.
With that kind of "improvement", newcomers are going to think that Linux is difficult to install and promptly go back to M$ in droves. For goodness sake, make the RH installer drop back to text mode automatically if X11 fails!!!!
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
Once you get the hang of it, compiling your kernel, sound card module, etc is very simple. The soundblaster live! driver is also very simple... Just download from http://opensource.creative.com then just
./configure
make
make install
depmod -a
modprobe emu10k1
Five easy steps for the most part, once you get the hang of it. As long as you've installed the linux kernel source code, everything should be in order. With loadable modules, recompiling one's kernel is almost unneeded, except for enabling some advanced options, like "Advanced router", and such. If you want a easy-to-use Linux distro, try Corel Linux 1.0 -- my only complaint is sometimes it tries to be too "smart", and overwrites a configuration file that I've customized, and some features are not quite evident -- such as installing a new hardware driver. The real power of UNIX-style systems is that they're not easy to learn, but easy to operate.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
Dear 'Jon'. Please learn to spell... That is all.
I run a dual boot system and recently installed Win98 over the previous Win95. All went smoothly, except that Win98 insisted on setting its partition to be active -- WITHOUT ASKING. Sheesh -- da nerve.
The whole point of these gyrations is to pick the part of Linux with the clunkiest interface and tow the reader face-first through it in an effort to scare him off using Linux in the first place.
/MBR to get rid of LILO and the boot partition. Then run FDISK and remove anything that says NON-DOS.
None of what MS says it necessary to remove Linux and install windows. Since windows refuses to share a drive with any other OS, you're going to have to repartition anyway.
Boot with a DOS disk with MS FDISK.EXE on it, and run FDISK
Elapsed time: 45 seconds.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
We really need a parody page that explains how to remove windows in order to install linux.
More likely that Win98 just set its partition active. Try using lilo. Set the linux partition active and put the boot sector on the linux partition, not the MBR where is is vulnerable to MS games. Lilo will happily boot either OS.
There are hundreds of thousands of knowledge base articles and this one is nothing special.
Shit...you can probably find a KB article on how to install your 8bit Soundblaster in Win 3.0, but that doens't mean MS thinks it's going to be something commonly done.
With the messages they say as much as:
;-)
MS-sytems can-not comprehend any non-MS install-entity-based filesystem!
Dosxx,Winxx,NT : vfat,fat32.fat16,fat8,ntfs is uncomprehensable within ANY MS mixture.
So, take up a REAL OS to make thing work as YOU see fit on YOUR machine.
But the "BACKUP FIRST" advice , I really do give them credtit for !!!
At least they do not try to S#$@#!#W you in the process
CC
I've seen alot of FUD from Microsoft, but in this case I would take this "gem of 'support information'" for exactly that.
You might want to read this post, check your paranoia at the door, and keep your powder dry. Microsoft has better weapons at it's disposal than the support database.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Human said as an insult BTW... Habbit of mine to use the word "Human" to discribe the worst of humanity as in "I'm only human"...
.. how did Linux get on the computer to start with?
:)
This only proves Microsofts people accually believe there own marketting hype....
Ask yourself the question
Here are some posable answers....
1. User went out of way to buy a computer with Linux preinstalled...
You allmost have to kill someone to get a system with Linux preinstalled. I hear rummors that some such boxes are accually sold in stores but so far I have found only Windows PCs and Macs.. with the Macs hidden away...
Thankfully I can buy such units on the Internet... Of course this is becouse I allready have a system so the whole point is moot...
2. User removed Windows from system and Installed Linux...
Clearly if a user removes Windows from his system he dosn't want to use Windows anymore so there'd be no reason to go back.
3. Home built.. It's probably easyer to install Linux on a new hand built machine that it is to install Windows..
Still if the user had WANTED Windows he'd have installed it in the first place.
Some how Microsofts people believe your going to want to switch back to Windows after using Linux...
The reality is it's not going to happen. On the other hand we can now point users to Microsofts website and say "See if you don't LIKE Linux you can allways switch back"...
Just focuse your efforts on users who would accually benifit from a switch to Linux... Windows experts and gammers arn't going to get as much out of Linux as a newbe who wants to surf the web.
Just my thoughts
I don't actually exist.
Even easier.. IF you can boot from CD.. Just follow the bouncing ball, and blast away those unsightly MS varicose veins, uh, I mean partitions..
itomato (forgot my passwd...)
I had problems deleting my linux partions for a win98 install. (Wife didn't like linux, by the we are now divorced) so I just wrote 0s to the whole drive... Overkill I know but Bill would be happy
and the typical user is supposed to figure this out somehow? sheesh....sounds kinda tough.
Anyway, the most recent fruits of Creative's newfound enlightenment can be had here:
http://opensource.creative.com/
and here:
http://www.alsa-project.org/ Don't let the version # fool you, ALSA has been awesome on w/ my GUS Max since I started using it 6-8 months ago. You may want to save ALSA for a future go-round, though, until you're feel comfortable configuring drivers not included as part of the stock kernel, as it's completely redone (and backward compatible) sound support for Linux, which is planned to be the next generation drivers and API. Also, it has a user mailing list in case you'd like a helping hand.
Both have documentation about how to go about setting it up, so given the inclination, you can have sound right now instead of waiting for the next round of distro updates. :)
Btw, kernel configuration and compiling really isn't very difficult - it's primarily choosing what devices to support, and a few protocols (and each option has a friendly little help display if you're unsure). For more information, you can visit the Linux Documentation Project at http://www.linuxdoc.org/ and LinuxNewbie.org at (oddly enough) http://www.linuxnewbie.org/- home of the NHFs (Newbieized Help files "in plain english")
Reminds me an old nightmare... 3 years ago.
Micro$oft releasing its own linux distro :
MS-Linux "Yeti"
Guess why I dreamt of that name for a Bill-G distro for linux... "Yeti". But it made me feel very bad, at that time.
Time for Yeti is coming, maybe... But it will sure be time for Micro$oft fall.
Anyone who thinks this is a "story" needs to have their head fdisk'd, BTW.
I'm sorry, but I have to say that this really is a non-issue. Since when does it matter if -anyone- tells -anyone- how to remove a specific OS? I know I read the HOWTO that detailed installing LILO. I heard hundreds of people tell me to just ditch windows (I haven't, yet. DVDs just aren't playable on my hardware yet in linux)
:)
I suggest a slight level of maturity from the slashdot crow.. ah, hell. Who am I kidding? Flame away, people. Don't forget to repeat yourselves.
I want a rock.
This document is obviously for Windows users that have installed Linux and found the learning curve to be too steep for their abilities, or their time too short. This is not beyond the realm of possibility. When advocating Linux, please consider the users skill level, and offer to help them to get acquainted. If you see an unanswered question (yes, even a dumb one) posted somewhere, answer it politely. If you aren't willing to help newbies, don't blame Microsoft for posting this type of document.
Looks like somebody forgot to close a tag ; ) Kinda neat to see all of /. in italic.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
Yeah, if you're a complete fucking retard that can't be bothered reading the README file in the top directory.
I think the article is refering to uninstalling linux because windows does not recognize the linux partition. Linux recognizes the windows partitions, so reinstalling linux after will be okay.
instead of embarking on such massive tasks, why doesn't MS post how to delete its own files, or how to easily uninstall apps, shareware, whatever.. from a hard drive. I've used Windows98 enough to know that installing any app is like a near one-way experience: it dumps crap everywhere, overwrites all kinds of config files.. blah blah.. no easy way to get rid of it. At least on a Mac, if you install an app into a folder (say, "Neato Program Folder") 99.9% of the time all you need to do to uninstall it is toss the folder in the trash. Okay, yah maybe also toss the app's pref file in the trash if you want, but that's it. In Windows you need a whole Uninstaller application just for that function to weed out DLL files, rewrite configs, blah blah.. holy shiznit! I've used some UNIX and there AFAIK you can just "rm" the folder and it's gone.
-----
Linux user: if (nt == unstable) { switchTo.linux() }
Those who laugh at you for you having a Mac.. are the people who constantly call you to fix their PC.
http://windows2k .hypermart.net/images/screenshots/defragmenter.gif
http://windows2 k.hypermart.net/images/screenshots/devicemanager.g if
Nope. The text-mode installer sucks rocks too. I spent three hours today trying to install 6.1 on a plain box. Gave up. Installed 6.0 in 15 minutes. Works fine. Of course, 6.1 works great on sparcs; thanks DaveM. I doubt Red Hat can kill the entire Linux market, but they're trying hard. Still, if I drop Linux it'll be for BSD not windows. Sorry, ms. You'll have to do better. Propaganda and buggy instructions on removing the evil linux aren't going to do it. But keep trying - you amuse me. :)
Getting rid of Linux partitions is easy in DOS. I have done it a number of times on test drives.
Ever try to get rid of an NTFS partition in Win95? It requires major surgery to remove it. (The last time I used Linux fdisk. It could actually kill the beast.)
Microsoft also seems to hate boot managers. They seem to think that it is some sort of plot against them. Ever try to get a version of DOS and Windows to coexist? The only way I have found to do it involved Partition Manager and a lot of patience. When I "upgraded" the machine to Win98, it claimed that it found boot manager and it would not work after the install. Just changing the active flag back on the boot manager partition fixed it.
Sometimes I think that these press releases are written by closet Linux supporters. I have a real hard time believing that people are that clueless and misinformed. (Until I wander across the building to marketing.)
"Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
This article is refering to windows not recognizing the linux partition. Therefore, you must uninstall linux, so you can install windows. That is why linux gets messed up when you install windows after linux. So, uninstall Linux before installing Windows 2000, and then reinstall linux. Linux is better programmed to handle windows, and windows is stupid (That is why they have this article). :)
I was pleased to find that kernel 2.2.13 came complete with a functional driver for my NeoMagic sound chip, the one used on all the new Sony laptops, so now I can listen to mp3's while I program, etc, etc. One less reason for using Windows. :-)
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
I already did that yonks ago, just like any other dual boot system. Only install linux FIRST.
I think we should
1) respect ppl with no more use for a computer than textprocessing. They are humans too.
2) give the developers of all distros the hint to make dual-booting the DEFAULT option when installing Linux.
Face it, changing from one OS (and most of the the apps) to another may take some time. Preserving the old system as well will IMHO increase the number of ppl actually making the switch to Linux. It is much easier to get used to the new system in small steps.
If your computer suddenly is useless to you, you will probably blame the latest change you made - if that is installing Linux, we've lost one (1) user.
Wouldn't that be a more friendly approach than the current used by MS and most Linux distros?
"Use our product. Only. NOW. In fact, your current system is deleted."
-- From Denmark
This is exactly why, despite the fact I love Linux and would love to see everyone use it, I will never push it on anyone. Unlike Windows, Linux is not dumbed down system that you can just pick up and drop anytime you want. You need to spend time to learn stuff -- and be willing to learn to begin with. You don't buy a Formula 1 car for just for fun -- you gotta be serious about it. If you want to just play around, you go get a second-hand al cheapo car. If somebody wants to switch to Linux, I'd be more than glad to help them along. But persuading a reluctant learner is not worthwhile in the least. You'll only create one more disgruntled Linux hater.
Much better if you *show* (not forcefully try to convince) them how superior Linux is, and let *them* decide they want it, and not you tell them they need it.
mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou.
Proposed ammendment: Step one: remove arms from straight jacket.
oh boo hoo, I know squat about programming and can recompile my kernel....just your average computer user who decided to take stab at Linux and loving it. Give it a try, it wont bite! Im your suppossed home user/dabbler and have been using Slackware (suppossedly the most user unfriendly distro out there) and have been frustrated a million times, but getting things to work is not unsurmountable....ok ok tak eth eesay way out
I'm really wondering if M$ will release a patch for their latest "virus-scanner" which searches all harddrives and remove Linux automagically
Of course without any warning!!!
It clearly looks as if M$ is beginning the war against Linux.
By the way, they don't mention how to delete any BSD. Maybe that's too difficult for them...
This is a replacement signature.
Lessee... Win3.x would pop up a warning flag if you tried to run it over DR-DOS or the like...
Win95, at install time, would detect HPFS partitions, and (incorrectly) allege that having OS/2 on your machine could make Windows malfunction.
And now official help documentation regarding Win2000, claiming that somehow the very presence of a Linux partition on your system is somehow 'incompatible' and must be removed.
Astounding how the largest software company in the world manages to be somehow ignorant of how to work with anyone else's software.
Then again, maybe not so astounding....
--
should be:
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than have to have a frontal lobotomy."
Truly words to live by... one of the greatest songs ever.
At Microsoft, customer demand is met only up to the point where it starts to conflict with company marketing policy.
Of course, one basic rule of Microsoft's company marketing policy is to never ever mention a product that a customer may run rather than any Microsoft product. Therefore even mentioning how to remove Linux is a victory for those at Microsoft who want to satisfy customers even if it costs a bit of control. If this continues, Microsoft might even start listening to their customers and fulfilling their demands, rather then just telling them what is good for them.
That would be both good for Microsoft - it would start to become a company, rather than a bully - and good for Linux.
-cjr
I bet MS run into a problem at the "install Windows" phase if not before. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
the article says: "The Linux operating system is generally installed on partition type 83 (Linux native) or 82 (Linux swap)." I might not be great at English but I think this means you can find linux installed on a 83 partition but you can also find it on a 82 one. I just wonder how they did it to install linux on a swap partition.... :) and yeah, it's nice to see they found out people start installing linux instead of windoze....
I wonder, when (if) the problem is resolved, will it make into the KB?
ACing to protect Karma Virginity :)
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
The accuracy:
The partition types used by the Linux and Windows operating systems are incompatible.
From Windows point of view that is. Linux understands the Windows partitions just fine.
To remove Linux from your computer and install Windows 2000 or Windows NT, you must manually delete the partition used by the Linux operating system.
This suggest that you need to remove Linux in order to install Windows. Which is not true (unless you have all diskspace commited to Linux).
The Linux operating system is generally installed on partition type 83 (Linux native) or 82 (Linux swap).
Yeah, I have Linux installed on a swap partition (82) and Windows is installed on win386.swp. Whatever.
The Linux boot manager (LILO) can be configured to start from
I guess I'm being pedantic when I point out that you do not have to be using LILO as a boot manager.
"Superblock" in Linux terminology means that the Linux partition should be the active partition.
Oh, that's interesting then. I thought the superblock was basically what M$ calls the boot sector. But I might be mistaken. In any case, the term superblock does not mean that the partition should be active. It's just an area in the file system to store information. It's there whether the partition is active or not.
In the knowledge base article now follows an explanation on how to remove partitions. It's so comforting to know that someone that has just proved him/herself totaly imcompetent on the subject is going to 'guide' us through the removal of partitions...
Breace.
Some people have pointed out in their replies to this article that anyone who has Linux on their machine is not very likely to need instructions on how to remove it in order to install a new operating system because they very likely already know these details. My question is then, why do people who have Windows installed not necessarily know about such details as the file system, where as people that have Linux installed typically do? This fact tells me that if Linux ever has a hope of being competitive in the "at home" market, it needs to require a lot less technical savy to be appealing. Fortunately, that seems to be the direction Linux is traveling.
Good job. I didn't notice half that stuff!
When OS/2 was getting murdered by Win95, IBM put up a page with instructions for removing Win95 from your computer and replacing it with OS/2.
I'm not saying that Win2K is in the same position versus GNU/Linux as OS/2 was with Win95. However, the publication of these instructions make me wonder if the paranoid people inside MS feel as though Windows is in decline?
Being in the stage of learning about Linux where I am past learning all the commands and concepts behind it, this Microsoft document is actually kind of helpful in learning a little about LILO.
.{redmist}.
.{redmist}.
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
"First, no Linux user calls anything non-manilla a folder."
... now save the file to that directory".
If it's a folder shaped icon on your Gnome or KDE desktop that links to a directory, a lot of Linux users do. I used to drive my mom nuts but switching terminology all the time. "Click on that folder
Anyone who flames you for that is not worth listening to.
:) The critical thing to do is make a bootdisk so if (when) you screw up and make lilo not able to boot, you can get into linux and run lilo before rebooting again :)
/proc/interrupts, /proc/dma, /dev/sndstat. lspci. lsmod.
Recompiling the kernel _is_ fun. I love those menus where you get to choose from all the cool stuff that Linux can do
good stuff to look at:
good luck.
#define X(x,y) x##y
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ; e-mail: X(peter@cordes ,
This warrants a score of 2? Give me a break...
This is not a Microsoft site. I would hope Microsoft knows better than that. This is simply a screen shot from someone who got a copy of the beta release, and it only reflects NDNet's choice of names.
--Sandy
Such an article actually exists: Q1266 71 - Windows Overwrites Linux Boot Manager
It's just a pity that it's completely inaccurate, and therefore mostly useless.
What's LILOCONFIG?
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
Grow up kid! Only script kiddies like you believe they know everything when they know how to setup a PPP connection or run X. Try to expand your vocabulary and use polite language grown-up use, or else return to your wanking-off.
I could have used this at one time when i had installed linux on a hard drive and then later fdisked it but that f***in lilo was still there. I had no idea it went into the mbr until someone told me. It really irritated me after i fdisked a couple times and it was still there.
FDISK /fprmt
This will enable MS FDISK to remove non-DOS/Windows partitions.
I know it works. I've done it numerous times (Linux is still in the "Hobby" stage for me right now) as occasionally MacroBloatasoft products sometimes need more space than I have on my Windows drive. Since I can restore Linux to a working state in under an hour, I can blow away Linux with no ill effects.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
In my humble opinion, the framework is just not there to support user-friendly installation of linux, especially on machines with goofy hardware (that vastly outnumber the number of ones without any goofy hardware, as far as I can tell).
isapnp is very much *NOT* automated, and the sad part is that it could so easily be fitted with a pretty little interface.
PCI PNP support is sketchy at best in my experience (at least with some of the modules that SHOULD support it but don't)
Other things that are sorely missing are in-kernel graphics and video support (will be addressed in 2.4.x, I hear? pleasepleasepleaseplease...) and sound support (which is, quite frankly, horrific. Although I have never tried 'sndconfig' since I don't use Mandrake)
Random and weird software I've written.
My goodness! In order to install NT, you need to remove Linux because of filesystem incompatibility. It's so great to see M$ making a fool of themselves: they use fs incomp. as an argument, but then state at the end of the article that Linux supports many filesystems, one of them being FAT32, something NT4 chokes in (he he).
Even funnier: there's good read and experimental readwrite support in the later kernels for NTFS.
I bet the guy who wrote this is an undercover agent of the secret Linux Tux squad that is hired to infiltrate M$ and spread FUD overthere.
The DOS fdisk can delete an NTFS partition if it is a Primary partition. However fdisk cannot delete any non-DOS partition if it resides within an extended partition.
Sorry for getting picky, but MBR stands for Master Boot Record and you can't put a boot sector on it. It's a bootstrapper (which is what lilo is) stored on the boot partition at a fixed offset. Perhaps you meant "not the partition table" which is a unique boot sector and is always sector zero of the physical disk. Windows changes this to make it point to the MBR of the Windows partition, oblivious of any other boot loaders or OSs. The lilo trick is to provide a menu from either the partition table code fragment or the MBR of the linux partition, to allow a jump back to the windows partition MBR, which is the Windows/DOS bootstrapper. (IIRCC) Sigh.. I've noticed the lilo docs get all confused about this, too.
You must have done something wrong. I installed Linux first on the first and 2nd partition. Then I installed Win98 on the third partition without problems.
It won't work if Linux is in an extended partition. For some reason the DOS fdisk doesn't like non-DOS partitions that are in the extended partition.
Typical. Microsoft's bloat even extends to it's instructions.
You can make DOS/Windows FDISK remove non-DOS partitions.
I found this out at a LAN party way back when. And, on occasion, when I've needed HD space for something (usually putzing with a Bloatrosoft product), I can blow away my Linux partition.
Why blow away Linux?
NOTE: I am NOT doing this on a server machine. This is my workstation/gaming machine.
How do you do it?
At the command prompt, type: /fprmt
FDISK
This will enable you to blow away any non-DOS partitions from within FDISK. This works with PC-DOS7, Win95, Win95b, Win95c, Win98, Win98SE, WinNT4, and Win2K.
Note: I'm not advocating murdering your Linux partition! I'm just diseminating information.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
I'm not intentially trying to milk for karma if that's what you mean.
...
I think you've missed my point. I simply wanted to know what company he works for that he's getting so many calls to get NT installed for end users
And by saying I'm in "same boat, different waters", I get *similar* sorts of calls, albeit for people who want to set up Linux and get rid of their hassles with NT - and yes, because Linux is an Internet operating system (whereas NT isn't, thus the apples/oranges factoid, which I can accept as a fair comment to have made about my first post in this thread) this inevitably turns into a network administration type of call for me.
I wouldn't say I'm off topic, either... the original poster had a point that he gets a lot of "how do I delete Linux" type calls, and I simply wanted to know more about the environment where those calls are being received...
Well, I guess I've managed to get sucked into the "justify your post to an Anonymous Coward" trap, but oh well...
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Recent Caldera DR DOS FDISK.EXE has a /X parameter which allows deletion and even creation of all known (or at least more than I've ever hear of) partition types. It might have trouble with a disk that is entirely *BSD (no partition table).
To really confuse you as to which is which, in contrast to Microsoft's utilities which will bomb out if the version is not the same, at least most of the DR-DOS/Novell DOS/Caldera OpenDOS/Caldera DOS utilities will work on most any version of Microsoft/IBM/DR, etc DOS.
The English police will be coming for you both shortly. You are both guilty of high treason against the English language, included the capital offence of misuse of an ellipsis.
And DON'T do it AGAIN. -- Cleese in Life of Brian
#define X(x,y) x##y
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ; e-mail: X(peter@cordes ,
MS would like consumers to think that because Windows 2000 has a release date in 1Q2000, one would "upgrade" to it from, say, Suse 6.3 released in 4Q1999. However, the reality is that "upgrading" is a subjective concept. It implies that one is moving to or augmenting a system, resulting in greater value. To my mind, one would "upgrade" from W2K to any kernel 2.2 release. I'm sure that MS apologists would see things differently. The important thing for MS is to squelch this idea and redefine the debate, presenting (a) the notion of "upgrading to W2K" as an objective decision, and (b) drowning out all the other voices to make it seem as if the common wisdom relating to that decision is a nod to W2K.
Just as AMD and Intel are involved in a race for MHz when the consumer should be interested in actual performance (like attempting to judge the speed potential of a car by only looking at the tachometer), Microsoft attempts to refocus consumers' collective attention away from what's more well-developed or robust, to what's the latest version number, what's the most with-it name, or what's newest and modern.
There's a lot of Microsoft precedent for this:
- Version inflation, to make it seem as if the development work and stability present in a product is comparable to the competition. Witness Microsoft products such as MS Exchange 4.0, which was really a 1.0 release, MS Word 2000 (v9) which is really version 6, Schedule+ version 7.0 which was really release 3, etc etc)
- Association of a product release with a date, such as the OS and Office apps, to make it seem as if there were value in running a application with the current year in the name. One of the admitted original goals was to prepare the consumer for yearly software licensing -- an idea which MS quickly withdrew, at least publicly.
- Most importantly: The public positioning of the latest product as THE thing to which one upgrades. It's a mindshare thing. For example, when MS released NT 3.1 it supported HPFS, which is/was generally acknowledged to be technically superior to NTFS. However, HPFS was associated with OS/2, and was thus "old" technology. Clients were strongly encouraged to use the lesser NTFS technology, then (with 3.51) refused support if they used HPFS, and then (with 4.0) forced to abandon the superior file system technology entirely. To my mind, NT was used to kill a technically and architecturally superior Warp 4 simply by marketing that portrayed the latter as old and tired. (Not to make any apologies for IBM, which couldn't market a firehose to a common consumer in a burning building...)
W2K will be marketed as the latest thing, the most "2000" thing, and the best thing -- despite the fact that the first two are valueless, and the last is something that is only determined by the consumer. Personally, I will "upgrade" my NT4/RH52 system at work to W2K (because it will make life easier in a Win-centric office), and then will "upgrade" my new home system that will inevitably come bundled with W2K to the latest RH or SuSE distro (because I don't like sloppy code or bad licenses in my home; it's a poor example for the kids).J
I think not...(*poof*)
Funny... I thought I remembered there was something about some holy water in the process... and some Latin incantations, or something like that. Wasn't there?
Good... bad... I'm the one with the gun.
ProofReading Markup Language - and yes, I find typos.
Note that I might not have read things correctly, but a quick searched turned unsuccessful.
If you have both WinSynts and a system installed there is about 1 thing left to do: mke2fs /win_partition WASTE that crap! C-YA
If you look at the feedback form, it says "(255 character max)". What happens if you send more than 255 chars? Will w2k suffer from a buffer overflow?
I have a windows98/nt/2000beta/beos machine. Is there some way i can add linux to this? I am a newbie to linux, so if somebody please point me to some instructions to add linux i will be grateful
Eat me, asshole. If you can't be fucking bothered to read the documentation SUPPLIED WITH THE SOFTWARE, why should anyone give you their time to help you to figure out how to get it working?
Anybody else noticed that despite being about uninstalling Linux, the keywords to the documents (at the bottom of the page) only contain:
Additional query words:
Keywords : kbsetup
Version : WINDOWS:2000; winnt:4.0
Platform : WINDOWS winnt
Issue type : kbhowto
Oops sorry my bad... Upon trying a search ("Linux"), the KB did show the document in question (and surprisingly, 15 others). Now how's that for mainstream recognition?
I strongly believe that trying to be clever is detrimental to your health. -- Linus Torvalds
...
"Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types, such as:"
...
Redhat 6.1 working on sparcs? Hmm, interesting notion. I've spent the better part of the past couple of weeks trying to persuade RH61 to get itself onto a SparcStation 2. Yes I know it's elderly and obsolete, but it'll do for running a few bits and bats off (MySQL, Apache SSL, PHP, etc..) It kept just stopping during the package install in the text mode version and didn't even get as far as starting X up for the GUI. Wonderful. As has been said, 6.0 got installed in 15minutes flat (after a couple more days downloading). Hmmmph.
/MBR? Or even being able to issue the 'q' command after the 'w' (without firing up fdisk again). Silly Microsoft, silly.
Back on topic, however. I realise this might be pointing out the obvious, but the KB article wasn't particularly correct. Anyone else heard of the linux fdisk being able to drive a device called
There were instructions in DOS6 for how to nuke OS/2 and install DOS 6.
- Scott
------
Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Well I suppose we had this one coming. Although we do promote the idea of "Remove Windows and install Linux" - but this is simple common sense ;)
... or something.
I mean what else did you expect from M$ on this. Like everything else M$ seems to relise it will be incompatible with all technology but their own, even at this you will be lucky. Anyone remeber the patch from M$ for the Microsoft Network Client - worked but shafted the Novell Client in the process.
So in their words "You see our technology works while the rest of yours don't".
Although I haven't seen Win2K (not WinY2K) yet I bet that it shafts Samba in the first release patch
Does anyone know if Samba works with Win2K?
The typical user does not have to figure it out. It is SPELLED OUT VERY CLEARLY.
I find it interesting that Microsoft admitted that Linux supports more than forty partition types, including Microsoft partitions, while Windows recognises only a few.
:-)
Another implicit reason to buy Linux
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
This is way too fucking true, Windows gashed into my Linux partitions more than once (After refusing to use the type 0b partition that I set up for it, I tried formatting it, and Windows was too dumb to read the partition table correctly, and apparently an overflow bug caused it to read higher values as lower values and write into my Linux partition. Uggh). Be careful with that operating system, it respects nothing of your computer, you, or your data.
Roblimo never said he thought that this was in any way reprehensible. But it sure is interesting. That M$ ackowledge our existence is one thing: that we're so widespread that such instructions might be useful to more than a few people is quite another. I'm glad the story was posted.
--
Xenu loves you!
I don't remeber if it came in C:/MSDOS or
C:/WINDOWS, but there was a file "OS2.TXT", where Microsoft described how to install on a computer with OS/2. Basically "back up all data and remove the partition".
No word about OS/2's really nice dual-boot system, that could be even configured with a graphical interface.
Microsoft accidentally revealed some details on their upcoming top-secret product, Microsoft Linux NT.
/mbr at the command prompt, and then press ENTER.
The partition types used by the Linux and Windows operating systems are incompatible
Microsoft has added a very valuable patch to the kernel - it has removed support for some inferior, obsolete and insecure technologies (msdos, umsdos, fat, vfat and ntfs filesystems) that have bloated the Linux kernel for quite a while.
Thank you, Microsoft. It's about time someone dared to do this. Keep up the good work.
The Linux operating system is generally installed on partition type 83 (Linux native) or 82 (Linux swap)
Microsoft Linux NT introduces another innovative(TM) technology - the possibility to install the whole system on a swap partition. I've talked with some other Linux developers to see if there's a reason to do this. We came to the conclusion that they're doing this for FUD purposes ("Linux becomes unstable if you use it on machines with less than 64 GB RAM. It will start overwriting arbitrary data on your harddisk.").
"Superblock" in Linux terminology means that the Linux partition should be the active partition
Microsoft Linux NT uses a new filesystem that doesn't need superblocks. Since they removed support for fat and ntfs, they must have come up with something really new (cpmfs?) - however, apparently we can't boot from partitions in their new filesystem.
Insert either a bootable floppy disk or a bootable CD-ROM for the Linux operating system on your computer. [...] To remove LILO, type fdisk
Seems Microsoft ported Microsoft fdisk to Linux! I hope it's GPL... Where can I download it? And why would I want to? Microsoft keeps throwing up interesting questions...
Also, Linux recognizes more than 40 different partition types
"more than 40" is a neat way to put "about 100 last time I checked" - I wonder if they'll advertise Windows 2000 with "Windows 2000 recognizes more than 10 kB of RAM!"...
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Couldn't resist.
Image what it's like when things actually do get complicated.
For what it's worth, all versions of DOS and Windows are happy with 3 primary partitions and and extended partition, or with 4 primary partitions. Or at least I've never had a hint of trouble running that way. (Comes from repartitioning disks the hard way with Norton Utilities)
Notice the woman at the top is having a good laugh? ;)
hardcode
Computer : A person doing calculations
Dictionary Definition 1936
What's the difference?
What would definitely be news for nerds is if Microsoft had a technote explaining how to install a MS OS alongside another OS, just in case any of MS's customers might want to do that.
BTW, can someone please set my mind at ease and dispel a rumour I heard, namely that W2K does away with the PC partition table, making it pretty difficult to share a disk between W2K and any normal OS.
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
How about you don't buy such POS hardware. That's what you get when you buy crap. 0 in the support aisle...
I use it at home, myself! :-)
I was going to title this: "Msft solutions are Msft's problems" - but my first voyage into the world of FreeBSD years ago came with instructions to use the Microsoft® undocumented "fdisk /mbr" command - which taught me that those bastards take over the master boot record of you hard disk and don't even tell you about it! Talk about getting your foot in the door to leverage a monopoly...
Ok, they have a desktop monopoly and billions in revenue for R&D - think that maybe NOW they can deliver a quality product for a change??
Boojum
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Microsoft® - Leave the Thinking to Us!
ASP - a highly poisonous snake indigenous to Washington state. Once bitten, the victim becomes a mindless zombie completely under the control of the mighty snake god who dwells in the temple of Redmond.
Boojum
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Try an AWE64....it takes maybe 10 secs to setup. Seems like most of the "new" sound cards have better midi support...which i don't understand, i like mp3 and other digial formats better. Unless i've missed something on the sblive box
What, having the exact steps written in a file isn't spelling it out? How many compenents of windows come with readme? Whats that, all of them?
I'm sorry, but it is. I mean, who cares?
/MBR - something often asked on linux chat channels, and there's also a KB article on how to RESTORE lilo after installing Windows.
/. for posting this and for everyone making such a big deal out of it.
Oooh, Redhat has instructions on how to remove Windows.
Why don't you guys search MSKB for articles on linux, (forgetting the frontpage extensions ones) there are other useful articles like how to remove LILO using FDISK
I'm so pissed off with
KB articles are supplied to answer frequently asked questions by MS customers and developers. This is a KB article not an advertising broshure.
If there's anything MS does very well, it's supporting developers and customers better than everyone else.
Very often the tech support memos are written by the companies tech support staff. I remember one company who gave a bonus to every employee who wrote a technote.
I believe it very likely that Microsoft gets calls from people who install Linux, get freaked out by a shell prompt, and then call to figure out how to get Windows re-installed.
I have a solution for people who are worried about 9x/NT4/Win2000 tromping all over their bootup procedure. Use a bootdisk. I have had to reinstall MS OS's multiple times but not my Linux since it never gets tromped on.
Although now I am playing with FreeBSD and there is no setup during install for making a bootdisk.
Corel Linux and smart shouldn't be used in the same sentence (for now) They disabled disk spanning!! Now why would they do something stupid like that?
I don't understand why anyone cares that much. Linux is not a no name anymore. The fact that people go crazy whenever it is mentioned just means that they think it hasn't.
Someone probably asked MS about it. It is easier to write a page on it then to explain it over and over.
On another note, according to the man page, cfdisk is better. Besides, is is probably easier to use for a windows user.
----------------
Have you read my journal today?
not really. just stick the NT boot-install disks in, then make like you're going to install and use the built-in fdisk in NT setup to delete your NTFS partitions. it does make sense that win9x fdisk cannot delete NTFS partitions.
Another way(and less disks) is to boot off a pocket linux floppy and do it from that.
also, you should know that you can only install Win9x onto the primary (c:)partition. so if you're being clever with boot mgrs, then it makes sense that it wont work.
Everyone in the computer elite is telling these end-users that if they want to be cool, they need to run Linux. Linux does this better and does that better and is better for this reason and that reason.
Of course, these people aren't prepared for the CLI-orientation of Linux. They aren't prepared for all the gobbeldygook that appears on their screen at bootup in lieu of a nice splash screen with an animated blue stripe at the bottom. And if these are the same people that find the Mac GUI "too complicated", they definitely aren't prepared for X. No, not even the cute attempt at replication of fvwm95.
Don't forget that the previous generation of this class of users were the ones that chose Windows over DOS not because DOS doesn't have as many features, but because its too complicated. Dump the average user to a C:/> prompt and watch them wig out.
Not to mention that not nearly as many people offer Linux introductory training the way most tech training people offer intro to Windows courses. The reason is of course that Linux can't be learned the same way.
These people probably should be encouraged to dual boot, because its going to take them some time to play around with Linux to the point where they have learned enough to really use it.
I'm sure it's been said before, and probably won't rate any points, but Linux is not a cure-all for the ills of the mainstreamed computer world. Failing to realize that will only cause the Linux-for-end-users crusdaders more headaches.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
In the sidebar:
> Did the information in this article
> help answer your question?
>
> Yes
> No
> Did not apply
And space for a few words of additional comments.
I've broken the bad news to Redmond that the article "Did not apply" and as I'm "sticking with Linux".
Still, I guess the guidance will be useful to some people.
If only it were a bit more accurate. I'm not sure we should feed this back to them, as I'm sure they've probably got someone in "the Cathedral" working on it right now, far to busy to accept patches/suggestions for improvement from dumb Linux users.
This is definatly my experience with MS software. I run a dual boot system (well... more than that...) I have a Linux partition, swap dive, and 2 Windoze partitions. I, personaly, never would have even been able to try this without System COmmander. I am not trying to endorse the software, but I highly recommend some kind of bootloader which can deal with the Microsoft-overwriteing-the-MBR problem. SystemV Commander saves the MBRs to disk, and if it's MBR is overwritten, it can be updated via a disk utility. I have found this very useful.
they ARE telling how to dual boot linux with NT: http:/ /msdn.microsoft.com/library/periodic/period99/07wi nntmag/multiboot.htm
Among my favorites:
...[V]erify that you have a bootable disk... for [Linux] because this process completely removes [Linux from] your computer. If you intend to restore the Linux operating system at a later date...
The partition types used by the Linux and Windows operating systems are incompatible.
That doesn't explain how some of my mounts can exist.
Start your computer with the Linux setup floppy disk, type fdisk at the command prompt, and
then press ENTER.
Hmm. DOS doesnt come with fdisk? I beg to differ.
('See, Linux is so inflexible that you even have to use Linux tools to remove it!')
For help using the Fdisk tool, type m at the command prompt... Type p at the command prompt... Type d at the command prompt... Type w, and then press ENTER... Type q at the command prompt...
Look at all those complicated commands. And no buttons. Microsoft would never release such a complicated program as fdisk!
Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types, such as:
FAT 12 (Type 01)
FAT 16 > 32 M Primary (Type 06)
FAT 16 Extended (Type 05)
FAT 32 w/o LBA Primary (Type 0b)
Uh, didn't you just say they were incompatible?
If so, why not tell the customers how to dual boot instead? Is Windows so inflexible that it cant live on your machine with other OSes? Huh? Huh?
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
Holy crap! You're right! Of course, a lot of people who install Linux will know (or will have been told) better.
Anyway, it could be useful for some. I installed Linux on my friend's computer (RedHat 6), but he's a hardcore gamer and Linux just wasn't right for him. He removed everything himself, but he couldn't pull LILO. I told him how, but this page would have helped him (somewhat) had I just picked up and left.
As a side note, did you notice the fact that Microsoft basically tells you that their products aren't good enough to actually get something done? They tell you to use the Linux fdisk command, possibly because theirs isn't good enough!
I nominate this article for the "It's Funny. Laugh." section article-of-the-year award.
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
Slate 1
I guess much more useful should be to post *the opposite* procedure ;)
First, MS knows that posting this will get a huge amount of attention from people on /. and throughout the Linux community. Second, that will likely ensure that someone in the press will ask an MS-er about it an interview. Third, that gives MS the chance to claim publicly that, "We weren't planning on providing this information, but our support people have been asked about how to remove Linux so many times that it only made sense to post it. We were surprised at the number of people trying, and quickly abandoning, Linux." (And if no one asks, they can issue a press release about it, "in response to the numerous people who have asked about that page on our web site", even if no one really asks.)
The point is that even if the reason given in part three above is a lie, MS has created a chance for them to say it and have it quoted all over the industry, with exactly the result MS wants in terms of hurting the mainstream's perception of Linux.
Hi,
/mbr from the command prompt".
:-)
:-)
I just got of the phone with M$ support in the UK (Reading HQ). Unfortunately for M$, the instructions don't actually work anyway. If you read through the instructions that they've given and follow them precisely, you'd have an unusable machine at the end of it (maybe that's what M$ want you to have?). There are several mistakes e.g.:
they instruct you to boot from a Linux boot disk and then "run fdisk
Unfortunately, they want you to run this command under one of their crappy OS's. Instead they tell you to run it from the Linux command prompt. They don't tell you to login, they don't tell you who to login as, etc. Linux fdisk won't do what the above intends and you'll be fscked.
Futhermore, they suggest that partition types for Linux and Windows are "incompatible" ????? er?? I've never known this to be true - maybe windows won't be able to read the data stored on a Linux partition (there are tools available I'm told though), but I'd hardly go as far as to imply that the two can't function on the same machine. I guess all those people dual-booting their machines are just seeing things and that Linux will never be advanced enough to co-exist with the wonderous (please somebody make me sick) M$ products
The sheer fact that nobody has previously mentioned this to M$$ would suggest that nobody has previously tried to "fix" their machine in this manner.
To contact me over any M$ related matter, mail me at my Microsoft sponsored mail account on hotmail:
wincrap2000@hotmail.com
Message to M$: If you're going to write a "HOWTO Delete Linux HOWTO" then check it over first and then submit it to www.linuxdoc.org and see what happens
http://www.jonmasters.org/
I have been using a number of Linux Distributions (now I am using Mandrake 6.1). All I can say is I only see Linux getting better and better. For MS Windows, most of the new features they added to a new OS are just stuff that doesn't really matter to real computer user. Sometimes I think those "features" actually put on more constraint on users. Also, all of my friends who switched over to Linux liked it a lot, so, this Message to for the MS management... unless "something" is done (they'll have to figure that themselves) i am not about to pay a sh*t load of money for another OS when I can find tones of good ones on the net... I have heard a lot of cases people switching from Windows to Linux, but not vice versa...
When one tried to install DOS 6.0 on a system which contained OS/2, the DOS installer basically told you that if you wanted to upgrade [MS's term]from OS/2 to DOS, you would have to allow DOS to remove OS/2. If you said you didn't want to do this, you were dumped out of the install.
The only ways I ever discovered for getting DOS 6.0 onto a system containing OS/2 (even on a separate hard drive) were (1) physically disconnect the 2nd hard drive with OS/2, or (2) install a second (minimal) copy of OS/2 in the partitition into which you wanted to install DOS (and Windows -- for kiddie games) and let DOS 6.0 blow this dummy copy away. It still complained about the fact that you weren't getting rid of all the space wasted by OS/2, but it did consent to install.
The README files that came with MS-DOS 6.0x (and 6.2x, for that matter) provided copious documentation as to how to make certain you eliminated every trace of OS/2 -- but provided no hints as to how you could get the two OSes to peacefully co-exist on the same system.
Credo quia impossibilis -- Tertullian
1. M$'s fdisk wont delete or recognize any non-dos partition. Therefore you would have to usr linux's fdisk (covered in the directions).
/mbr would create an interesting error.
:-)
2. If you are using linux fdisk typing fdisk
The way I see it the only people who would use these directions are people who normally use windoze and were just seeing what the hype is about. And these people would not have only linuxpartiotions on their system. That brings us to:
3. Deleting all partitions will remove the dos partitions too.
4. And as to M$ releasing their own product to do this: fdisk was originally a M$ product, IMHO one of their best.
I know this has probably all been said already, but now it's in one place.
D.D.
Where Do You Want to go yesterday?
Devil Ducky
MY peers would get out of jury duty.
Oh come now. Puhleeeeze!!! I am no "script kiddie", I am a 35 yr old mom, and I use Caldera 2.3. To set up my ppp all I had to do was go into kppp (kde's dialing app), enter my user name, password, access # and DNS server IP's, then pick what device my modem was hooked to. At least as easy, if not easier than 95 and NT's setup. Run X? Oh you mean that thing that comes up automatically (G) when I boot? (yes I'm sandbagging, but it's just too easy in Caldera) Caldera automatically Boots you into runlevel 5 and gives a nice screen to pick your user, desktop environment and enter your password and takes you straight in. I had no problems configuring x for my machine, I picked which video card I had from a list, and it gave me a choice of resolutions to pick my default from, asked if I wanted a virtual screen, etc. As far as sound cards, compiling the kernal to get sound? Not when you use a module. Oh that was real hard, I loaded the module via a graphical interface, and told it to enable system sounds. Wow. I really worked up a sweat there I'll tell you.
when they were afraid that OS/2 was going to kill them. They would give detailed instructions on how to delete warp. Nothing has changed. It's the usual thieves, liars and thugs up to their usual tricks.
You have been assimilated.
The problem is that lilo blows goats. I've had this problem many times (run lilo to have it fix itself), but I've never had this problem with the BeOS bootloader (and BeOS's is prettier too )
What's more frightening is their recent attempts to steal the word "open" as it relates to software licensing! Check out this URL, it speaks for itself. http://www.microsoft.com/enterprise/licensing/Open .htm
Who maintains the list of partition types? It seems that they are the same in Linux's fdisk, and things like partition magic. Is this list an industry standard, maintained by some standards body?
It dawned on me that they refer to the partition types that Linux uses to install. With all the things that MS does to try to subvert "the movement", why didn't they just make NTFS partition type 82, and say 'OOPS, was someone else using that.'
That would seem to fit in with everyones attitude of what MS does.
Using the above link, I was able to find a wealth of info on using ntldr to boot Linux, but I also want to have OS/2 on the machine. Does anyone know how to induce NT Loader to boot a Warp partition, as well as Linux?
Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
I can remove Linux without ever booting to it.
--
Una piccola canzone, un piccolo ballo, poco seltzer giù i vostri pantaloni.
My office has been taken over by iPod people.
It's actually a tool I have on my Slackware install; 3.6, 4.0 and 7.0 all had it. I don't know about the earlier verions.
After I delete the Linux partitions, I boot from my Slack 7 CD and type fdisk /mbr? Pretty sure that's not going to work.
/mbr at the command prompt, and then press ENTER.
I guess they meant a M$-DOS boot disk.
*snip*
f.Insert either a bootable floppy disk or a bootable CD-ROM for the Linux operating system on your computer, and then press CTRL+ALT+DELETE to restart your computer.
2.Remove LILO. To remove the LILO, type fdisk
*snip*
I agree. Big deal. They are just supplying a service to their customers who have probably asked this question over and over. Yes the document has errors in it, showing why they are trying to hire some Linux experts. But I see no need to cause an alarm over it. I am sure many OS'es these days as Wonko42 points out have some documentation on either wiping out other pre-installed OS'es or performing lossless repartitioning of the hard drives to install the new OS.
-- I can't say enough in 120 chars!
Seems that the installation of Windows has historically defaulted to wipe out any other system.
:-)
I would think instructions would be needed to *avoid* blowing away linux or any other non-ms system.
Is MS now intent on bearing children raised to play well with the other kids? This would be real news, and quite possibly furthur proof that "the end is near"
I was a bit surprised by this at first, and even a bit annoyed. I can see the utility of dual boot for experimenting and such, but when I had the spare 'puter sitting there... and NO experience... I was looking for "Here's how to install (OS) on a 'bare' system..."
Since then, I've learned some.
Damnthing won't install on the Alpha either.
Mmm.. gotta love a machine with taste.
I had to recently (on my only dual boot Linux/W95) /MBR from DOS. It is a long story involving copying the W95 drive to a newer
box do a fdisk
bigger HD (more room for games!). Immediatly I
was locked out of the Linux partition. After I
got the Windoze HD fixed and setup, I used a
trusty mkbootdisk created disk to boot back
into Linux and ran:
dd if=boot.0300 of=/dev/hda1 bs=446 count=1
and presto instant dual boot box again!
Take that MS!
PS. Powerquest Drive Copy works great on
Windoze drives.
Sorry that was actually
/dev/hda1
dd if=boot.0300 of=/dev/hda bs=446 count=1
not
my bad!
The first step down from dominance to oblivion is to acknowledge the competition. And this sure is recognition.
I always mispronounce Linux, to find out who knows, who's clueless, and who's on a jihad
In the old version of their doc they were telling you to go DOS before striking fdisk /mbr.
Looks like MS doesn't remember doing it...
Don't you love it when fdisk /mbr DOESN'T work? I would like to see some linux newbie have a nervous breakdown over that one.
Darn, I miss all that fun. I am usually ahead
of the RedHat Distro on quite a few proggies
like Kernel,Bind,Samba,Sendmail, Fetchmail and generally wind up doing an RPM upgrade so I miss all the fun. Been that way since RH4.2 and havent gotten the text uipgrade ever to work right.
But at least I have the option to do the RPM
upgrade. Of course I miss the smb network
install that disappeared, and the NFS one has
gotten flaky lately.
Well, I guess the more documentation the better. Or maybe they did this out of spite? Probably to get the Linux crowd upset.
Microsoft aggravates my tourettes syndrome.
A little while ago I tried to do this very thing... (don't laugh, I had my reasons.) Anyway, I found that the biggest stumbling block was not having a boot disk for windows. The Win98 installation instructions assume you already have a dos based machine and can create one without problem. Maybe there is a way for linux to do this easily, but I was forced to go to bootdisk.com. Unfortunately, all the disks come as .exe self-extracting archives, which led to learning dosemu, etc. Anyway, life would have been much easier if windows had included a boot disk image on their CDROM. Or, heaven, forbid alter their install process so they don't have to reboot 20 times during install and then make the cdrom bootable.
Hehe... I use System Commander myself. However, the Windows 2000 install program doesn't like System Commander. It pisses at you if it sees it, after a half hour of "initializing" :)
a. configure machine to boot from cd-rom
b. insert RH cd into machine (or other bootable linux cd)
c. reboot machine
d. delete windows partitions to make room for Linux
that's it!
Don't the moderators read their guidelines?
Again, another unnewsworthy article appears on www.slashdot.org. When are you dweebs going to wake and smell the diesel fuel? If you would maintain your focus on technology (ie. chip lithography, quantum computing, cryptography, fiber optics), you would that your readership would increase. As a diehard Linux fan, MS is as good as the null set. Why do you continue to post stories about an antiquated OS (and company)? Perhaps, you need to be given weekend leave from Slashdot and spend some time in therapy.
So use another bootloader... When we've got very friendly, nice bootloaders like GRUB (my personal favourite), GAG (nice and graphical), etc... there's no reason to be bitching about LILO.
I remember reading some of the readme files included with MS-DOS 6 way back when. Would you believe that they give you instructions on "upgrading" from OS/2? What kind of idiot would EVER want to trash OS/2 for DOS/Win31? Back then, I used OS/2 as my primary OS. It ran all the DOS/Win stuff perfectly (better than Linux could ever hope to), and had all the features common in Win95 without crashing all the time. (years before)
As far as I know the drive letters for FAT drives are assigned starting with C: and you can't do too much about it. But you can easily give an NTFS partition a high drive letter, such as M:, with NT's Disk Adminsitrator (Start Menu/Administrative Tools/Disk Administrator). Your Novell setup probably uses not just F: (G:, H:, etc.) but also Z: (Y:, X:, etc.) but there should be some unused letters in the middle of the alphabet you can still use.
Disk Administrator also lets you set your CD drive to a high letter. In my company, I always set up NT machines so the CD drive is drive L:, instead of leaving it at the default, which is one letter past the last hard drive partition. Not only does this make it easier when you go from one machine to the next, but also there are a lot of CD-based programs which have the drive letter in the registry settings. Suppose I have drives C: and D: on a machine and I leave the CD as E:. When I install a program that needs to access the CD drive (like, for example, a map program where the map database is on a CD) the program's configuration expects to find the data CD in E: Now I add a second hard drive to that machine, so the CD drive becomes F: instead. Presto! I've just broken that program, and I get to reinstall it. But the way I do it, even with the new hard drive, the CD drive stays at L:, so the program still works even with the new hard drive.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
And we all know how it looks is more important than its function. BeOS is a useless OS. It supports maybe 5% of the hardware out there and unless you want to watch a teapot spin, has little function.
My $.02
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
SB.
Docs like this aren't all that new. When Win95 was released, I was one of the techs at taking calls for MS. One of the first docs that we created for our own techs was about how to remove Win95 so the customer could return to DOS and Win3x. Users will gravitate more towards what they use the most, be it DOS, Win95, Mac or whatever.
Basically I just put Linux on my first drive, read the LILO howto and then hit the internet for more answers on how to get it configured to use Windows on my second HD. If you're totally new I'd reccomend putting in R-hat or Mandrake on the same drive as Windows. Basically leave some space on the first drive unpartitioned, and simply choose "Workstation Install" when the installation prompts you to. should set everything up for you. I wanted them on separate drives since I got two HD's and one computer, if you've used linux a little and have something like that read on (I didn't get this outta the LILO Howto).
/mbr to fix it. Works great now. image=/dev/hda1 label=linux boot=/dev/hda1 read only other=/dev/hdb1 label=dos map-drive=0x80 to=0x81 map-drive=0x81 to=0x80
This is an approximation of what my lilo.conf file looks like, putting the Windows drive in as a pri-IDE slave to my Linux drive... It seems to work fine for me. Basically the onld Windows HD used to be the only one in the system, and aside from having it mounted into my linux filesystem to copy files from drive to drive easily, I like having them totally seperate. This was after trying about 5 different ways to do it. At some point my Windows MBR got hosed and it came up with "insert system disk". Unplugged the Linux drive completely and used fdisk
There aren't really any secret features in older M$ executables. All you have to do is "[command] /?" Ok, most of that stuff is documented from within each program, but if all else fails, read the help.
And no, I'm not a M$ supporter. I am forced to use older technologies at work.
This is the same like the article how to migrate from Oracle to SQL 6.5/7.
To be honest: Who would really do that???
Cheers
Boessu
Why buy software? I know of many places where i can get "open sourced" M$ prodcuts:) Haven't bought one in a long time, hehehe
The sexist, stupid, article 'Uncle Robins Guide to Girls' or whatever was the one that made me lose loads of respect for Roblimo, and loads of respect for Slashdot in general. My slashdot reading time dropped to about 25% of its previous level from sheer disgust.
Juln
Remember the Linux posts M$ offered some time ago?
I wonder if they're hiring them for this.
- Windows 2000. The Millennium Bug.
If you scroll down the page a bit, you'll also see step-by-step instructions on how to take your Linux CDs outside, light them on fire, jump up and down on them and mail the ashes directly to Linus.
I'm glad Microsoft is looking out for me, the consumer.
--
Mike Hoye
They're only there in Windows to make you click [OK] one more time ;) Christ the tech support calls I get where it goes like me:did you read the brochure that we supplied with your S/W?
them:Oh, that thing, no I keep coffee rings off my table with it.
m:Oh. Why don't you read through that.
T:Isn't that what you're there for?
m:Ok, lets open it to page three, and tell me what step one says.
T:Insert the disk into drive D:
m:have you done that yet?
T: No.
m:Why don't you go ahead and do that, then read step two to me.
And so on and so on. You get the idea. Thank God the Willfully Stupid(TM) didn't pick up a Red-Hat CD instead. Then they'd actually have to use a few brain cells. Of course once they learned how to use a computer they wouldn't be quite as helpless but they might wind up missing a few episodes of "Friends" doing it...
They have a live bootable file system on CD. Of course you need the superior PowerPC chip to use it :)
Opening all the threads he wants to reply to later in a new browser window. I got caught doing that once or twice myself...Lesson: Look at the titlebar and double check the comment before you start typing/pasting...
The smell of fear is very much in evidence in Redmond these days. Soon they will start shitting in their pants.
Isn't FDISK a MS utiltiy??
The Linux operating system is generally installed on partition type 83 (Linux native) or 82 (Linux swap).
Since when do we install linux on a swap partition? Giggle...
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
Psst-don't tell anyone I told you this, but I think Fat12 is for Floppies
(And here I thought it was a dress size all these years)
they do mention running fdisk /MBR for removing lilo - what a wasted step, the install of Winblows will do that for you.
LRJ
Don't all Windows OS' Throw Out the bootloader? There are bootloaders out there other than LILO or the Microsoft one. What burns me up is the fact that MS fails to give you an option on install if you want to replace your current bootloader with their deficient one. Or if there is an option, it isn't obvious. We've all heard of security through obscurity, how about features through obscurity. They enhance the value of their software(in this case the bootloader) because they obscure any other options.
The /? command switch does display help on most commands. However, it will only tell you about command switches that the programmer wants you to know about. It's just a simple dump-some-text-to-stdout. There is no magic here.
rotfl!
:P
It sound just like when I reinstalled NT on my hdd (I had Linux installed before that) and I ended up with 3 partitions: 800MB NT (which btw was correct), one partition of -2Mb and one of -10Mb (that is negative) out of my whole 8.4Gb hdd...
So winblows sucks! What else is new?
I used to write it of as a simple college students' website, but now that he is taking money shouldn't he show some professionalism?
I have both W2K and Linux on my machine at home and there were no problems whatsoever with getting either to install correctly. W2K didn't even touch my LILO in the MBR and installed the loader on its partition, like we all hoped W95 would do. No more messing with that NT loader madness in NT4, just use LILO for everything. There was a small glitch with the disk manager though, it showed some of the Linux partitions as "Free space". It could be because I set my extended partition to Linux Extended, to avoid having the drives show up in anything DOS, but W2K's failure to recognize them as a valid partition suggests either an honest mistake or a deliberate attempt to make people erase their non-MS partitions :) In either case, the document on how to remove offending partitions that W2K doesn't recognize, is appropriate.
and that's because anyone still using Windows won't need it, and anyone using Linux isn't going back to the buggy $#%$%^ Microsoft is!
"As many of you know, I was very instrumental in the founding of the Internet" --Al Gore to Katie Couric 3/99
The number one question in the Linux in something along the lines of "I just deleted my Linux partitions. Now how do I get rid of Lilo? With the answer being "Boot a MS/DOS disk. Then FDISK/MBR."
Read the article, at least it's correct in it's directions. This is no different then when they provided OS/2 removal instructions in DOS and Windows documentation. We should consider this an honorable mention since BEOS or BSD is not mentioned.
Use the feedback feature and slam them with the Slashdot effect. Everyone submit comments about the article and maybe we can flood their Back Office!
It's too bad this wasn't covered in Judge Jackson's FoF. Why does MS think they own my MBR? Maybe it's time for (yet another) class action suit for all people who have had to waste time recovering from this.
I first ran into it when trying to configure a win95-OS/2 dual boot system. At least OS/2 had warnings about this, and their boot manager could handle it.
Wouldn't it be funny if they posted a hit count of their white papers to show that this one gets more hits than anything else on *.microsoft.com? Or at least *.support.microsoft.com - All because of the /. effect. Of course they would post a footnote saying how "This proves that people are removing linux in massive numbers in order to install windows nt/2k..."
hahaha!
- Turn off system
- Insert Soundcard
- Turn on system
- Watch drivers be installed automatically
- Done, no reboot of any kind required
I'm sure the Linux way is easier with make, config, install, reade the fucking readme....much easier than just putting the sound card in. Just think in another 2 or 3 years Linux might equal Win95 in hardware support.I hate to say it but, GET A LIFE.
Slackware comes with one as of 4.0, at least.
This is something that could equate to good PR for Linux. Bear with me here...
1)Now it's "easier than ever(TM)" to try out Linux, after all Microsoft has now published instructions for backing out in case you find it's not for you! Just give it a month and if you don't like it, no harm, no foul!
2)Let's say you decide to take the "Microsoft doesn't have a clue" angle (or step 1 leaves them wondering why the MS method don't work), write your own documentation on how to *correctly* remove Linux partitions and set up your HD for Windows. All of a sudden (well, after 2-3 tries the MS way) their support doesn't look so good compared to ours. Maybe I should give this Linux thing a try again real soon, because at least *they* know how to get everything back the way it was if I don't like it.
Soft Sell the Microsoft way, Whoohooo!
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
I use the BeOS bootloader to select between Windows/BeOS/Linux (to boot Linux, it uses LILO on the Linux partition).
Course, I almost never reboot my system, and it's in Linux 99.99% of the time, so I don't really see that bootloader screen too often.. Still, it is the nicest one I've used yet. Just pretty, and simple.
So THIS is what they were hiring all those Linux educated people to do.
"You're hired. Now you must teach us how to delete Linux portitions and create a short, obtuse FAQ on how to do it. Make sure said FAQ enough inconsistencies to make it seem as if working with Linux following their vaunted "Internet Support Community" docs doesn't work.
Hmmm, will we be seeing an uninstall FAQ for BSD soon?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
The main feature of NTFS 5 is the ability to encrypt files. The encrypted files can only be opened by the person who created them or an administrator. The encryption uses the SID of the user to encrypt the files.
Also once you upgrade a partition to NTFS 5 it cannot be converted back to NTFS 4. If you are upgrading from NT 4.0 to Windows 2000 the installer will ask whether or not you want to upgrade your partitions.
modprobe sound
You did buy a distro with precompiled modules didn't you?
Oh, you downloaded it free from the net? And you got your Win95 CD for free too didn't ya?
The whole point of this beratement is a belief that being able to type "configure" after having read the file labeled "README" is no great hacking feat.
You have it BACKWARDS.
Go back to your bridge.
Shut up, be happy. The conveniences you demanded are now mandatory. -- Jello Biafra
unistall instructions are "perfect" MS flamebait/FUD 1. Post contradictory/confusing/not well thought through unistall instructions on M$ support pages 2. Be aware than n /. readers, appropriately paranoid about M$ tactics trawl M$domain for references 3. Acknowledge considerable legitaimacy that the info on M$domain portends for many who are not absolutely sure of themselves, technically speaking 4. Add reference / connection to W2k (not yet widely known, tested and familiar to a large majority despite "going gold". 5. Consider /. will react, and is undoubtedly viewed by many linux newbies, including many intelligent types sitting on fence (one thing linux has really done is bring to the fore of public consciousness the need for robust os's, (for those who are not already painfully aware) - who fulfils this need on a mass scale (equiv M$ desktop share at least, i mean wouldnt everyone *love* to have jornalling filesystems "everywhere") is yet to be seen, happily and hopefully not de facto M$ 6. Allow that the "user experience" of linux is more varied than with M$ os's, therefore expect many opinions in addition to reactions to inaccuracy and other *problems* with the support page 7. Wait for it all to brim over with froth and (genuine) contraversy - the best liar mixes lies carefully with the truth and - 8. Bingo - thousands of innocents shy off linux because they "just dont know anymore"/ honestly dont have the time to go check all the facts for themselves. - the perfect setup. haven't we just been *done* into all our *undoing* (or uninstalling?) comment # 10^(score), man i'm slow today
I've had netscape disappear off of my desktop, but never have I had it kill/lockup my box completely. I don't know what kind of hardware you run (or what kernel), but your box must have serious problems. BTW, do you run it as root? pointer
[%- PROCESS life -%]
If you look here, they at least give some hints on how to re-install lilo to get at your linux partition. It's not extremely helpful, but at least it's there.
I do wonder whether MS might not be working on a floppy-based tool that will "prepare" your system for a Windows installation. Maybe I'll see if I can get transferred over to the UI group in charge of that project. I can write stuff like:
Do you want to continue?
[ YES] [YES]
--
Someone you trust is one of us.
Before you say "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!&*@#%@", just think how many faq's, howto's, mini-howto's, etc. have been written on how to do this opposite, remove Windows from your harddrive in place of linux. I think it only mentions Linux because Linux seems to be the closest threat -- removing [Free,Open,Net]BSD or any other UNIX you can imagine would be roughly the same procedure.
The last time I looked at the Linux kernel, it did not come with fdisk!
Where is the part where three joystick ports are detected and you have to reinstall the whole OS? Batlock...
Batlock...
I'm not here to spread FUD, because a lot has been spread recently. All we really need to know is that Windows has the largest market share. The open source community wants that market share. I'm not going to comment on which is the better product, but I would suggest attention within Microsoft is moving towards open source efforts. Knowledge Base articles like the above hardly show a firm, concerted, intentional dislike of Linux on their part (it's like saying turning a torch on in a cave system affects light pollution). Paying for software has had its time; paying for services (tech support, etc) only will probably bring todays software tycoons to their knees. I think I'll just stand back and watch...
Just because stupid people buy thier software, and thier software is the most popular thing out there, does not mean that everyone is stupid. If you managed to install linux, then you will manage to uninstall it just fine. So either:
1) MS assumes everyone is stupid
2) (more likely) MS didn't post this artical to be a useful tutorial on how to uninstall linux, but rather as a marketing tactic that implies people want to uninstall linux in large enough numbers to write an artical on it. (and to annoy little linux kiddies)
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I believe that wasn't a mispronunciation, it was an outright insult to Linux advocates ... I've heard it called Loonix before, by people who want to imply that Linux is a 'fringe' OS that has fanatics and insurgents as its only supporters. Of course, you would have to be out of your mind not be bowled over by the amazing things Microsoft offers all of us!
I don't know what his argument about up and coming competitors is, but hearing linux called that was highly irritating.
Juln
had heard about Linux and wanted me to install it for her...
She knows so little about computers, and can barely even handle Windows 95, that she would get so absolutely nowhere with Linux that it would be actively harmful for her if I installed it.
Juln
By the way, in the article on the microsoft website at http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q 247/8/04.ASP?LNG=ENG&SA=ALLKB you will find a small user opinion poll on the right hand side that asks our opinion.
I said "NO", the article didnt help me and I added the comment "linux rules".
Can everyone please do the same and take the poll on their site???
-- Betting on the survival of the media industry is a serious risk. I advise investing elsewhere.
------------
Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
You people should all take your heads out of your asses! There is a one reason why Windows is installed in way more machines than Linux, IT'S EASIER TO USE!!!!!
It's doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
That brings me to an interesting idea. Maybe there should be more PRO-MICROSOFT POSTS on /.
[I got this from the bible. Specifically, the Gospel according to Mark, chapter 12 (New International Version):]
He [Jesus] then began to speak to them in parables: "A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. "He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, `They will respect my son.' "But the tenants said to one another, `This is the heir. Come, let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard. "What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others. Haven't you read this scripture: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone [or cornerstone]; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?"
All I can think of is the line from "D.J.s"... "the stone that the builder refused shall be the head cornerstone." Micro$oft built the vineyard that is the popularity of computer software, but his attempts to use his servants (his EULA, the M$ Office and Windows stuff, and FUD being his dearest son) to take his tribute from the workers (hackers and users alike) will be given the beatdown. I have thought of the stone as software (especially Free [like speech] Software). Micro$oft has never thought of the idea of Free Software being a force to be reckoned with, so BillG rejected this (he can't make billions and trillions out of this -- he loves closed-sourced products that are easily neglected). Linux world domination will be the cornerstone.
What do you kids think?
...is that the /mbr switch for fdisk is undocumented. Now I never bother to remember command line switches for DOS commands, because I know that I can almost always get help by typing /? after the command, but the /? help for fdisk doesn't mention /mbr.
I experienced this first hand when I experimented with RedHat 4.2. I only hope that MS also will be updating future versions of fdisk to include /mbr in the /? help.
AC as always, because I have too many logons--Steve
comments@vrml3d.com
I am waiting on Microsoft to extend the NT/2000 server competitive upgrade offer to Linux.
Now that would real justification.
HPFS doesn't support security mechanisms, i.e. no file ownership, no ACLs, etc.
I also question that Warp 4 was technically superior to NT.
I find it amazing the number of posters to slashdot who go around distorting reality in order to try to make a point.
Why should old programs care that they're running on an NTFS partition instead of a FAT partition? Isn't that what an operating system is for - to provide an abstraction layer so that the application can ignore piddling details about how the data is actually stored on disk, where the disk is actually located (local vs. network), etc.?
s t mentality care about.
Oh yeah, I forgot that Redmond (alone) defines internet browsers a critical function of the operating system, but disk transparency is apparently something only long-haired hippies who refuse to buy into the must-always-use-lastest-software-regardless-of-co
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Brr. Sounds like Babylon talkin', mon...
My email addy goes better without spam.
May I suggest:
Select item 3, "Did not apply"
In the comment area, "But why would I want to?"
... if you were to load the old, outdated version of NT 4 that worked with PPC systems. Then again, that never worked very well, even by NT standards but they do make you learn how to do it for the MCSE exams (or used to). Ditto for Alpha and MIPS.
Windows NT, the cross platform OS from Microsoft!
Now working on:
4 platforms! Err...
3 platforms! Err...
2 platforms! Err...
1 platform!
Doesn't anybody in the trade press have a memory?
TML
SuSE is not the only one to have a bootable "live filesystem" CD. Slackware 7 also includes one.
" Also, Linux recognizes more than forty different partition types, such as: "
Was that a compliment from M$? Are they saying, "Linux supports 40 partitions, we don't?"....
It's not that they tell you how to uninstall Linux, its that the instructions are wrong.
Aetius
I WAS gonna go metamoding, to hope to meta-m one or both unfair... but then I realised something.
You put it pretty suscciently yourself:
> And the very valid article the moron was flaming was marked down as 'flamebait
So, this tummyX crafts a post deliberately written so as to piss people off, and indeed, DID attract a flame. Is this not the very definition of flamebait?
Indeed, I had a look at this tummyX persons posting history. In quite a few posts (within the last few weeks, so slash tells us), he is observed to be sucking up to billgates and his merry band of thugs.
Indeed, it looks very much like tummyx is, indeed, an astroturfing stooge for microsoft. Perhaps that's where the "insightful" came from.
I, OTOH, usually just try to ignore the trolls and flamebaiters, but what the hey?
jenni
A tool that came/comes with Slackware to edit your /etc/lilo.conf file. It's marginally easier than vi /etc/lilo.conf.
I think some people get a little too worked up about this. Microsoft is a company that creates operating systems (among other things.) Now, Linux is competition to them. This is just a Knowledge Base (KB) article for those for don't know, and maybe found Linux on there computer my accident. Although I do admit it's a bit strange.
But, I can assure the population from personal experiences that not everyone who is employeed by Microsoft hates Linux. In fact, from what I've found, many of them think it's cool, but somewhat adhoc in it's design (which I beleave to be true.)
Yeah, whatever, moderate me to the ground
-- pete
Pete
It's about time some instructions got published to help users get rid of an arcane and over-complex operating system and instead help them install a REAL operating system that people are actually willing to pay money for.
Well, as far as I recall, some Linux distro's also explain that the best way to avoid dual-boot problem thingies is to delete Windows entirely (duh). They also describe how to delete it. Piece of cake I know but.. you get the idea. Then again, I'm a rather naive kind of person. Maybe Gates DOES try and get some profit out of this..
For most users the best way to remove that pesky Linux patition would be to rush out to the store and make sure you buy the most expensive and fastest Intel based computer you can find (don't want that slow old processor to slow down your solitare games or AOL chats). Then rush home and tear open the boxes. Make sure you throw away all empty boxes and all documentation you see before proceding.
:)
Next call the store you purcased the computer from to get help starting your computer. Then call the manufacturer number that the store gave you. After finding out that Tech support cannot give you help in locating the electrical outlets in your house hang up, make sure you curse and complain about their lack of support before hanging up or you'll just have to call back later to do this.
Finally after a few days of unsuccesfully getting the machine started move it to your living room and place it next to the machine with the blinking 12:00 on it. Sit down relax and watch TGIF as you wish you had purchased a colored machine that better matches your living room decor.
Sorry I'm bored and felt like rambling on.
----------------
Did anyone notice that it never mention about the user must have permission to write to /dev/hda?
I can't recommend this program enough! Should you want to delete any partition, its a two click operation. Its resizing abilities are nice too, but linux doesn't seem to like having its partition sizes messed with. If you are doing a dual boot system, definitly look into this program.
Im sorry bud, but that comment about BeOS seems pretty harsh and a little blind. Its been a long time since Ive duked it out on here, and a couple months since Ive even locally used my Linux & Free BSD box's, but Ive got to say that if I heard someone bashing a good operating system like Linux on the grounds that it didnt support every piece of proprietary cheap ass WinCard Id be a little pissed. --Scott Mountenay
Close the microwave door.
shouldn't we have a page entitled
"So you want to get rid of windows..."
page somewhere on the Net?
maybe there is one...
hafnium
Linux or any other OS in is an extended partition. The switch you mentioned (fdisk /fprmt) is for creating FAT32 partitions smaller than 512MB.
Debian has to be the best!!
It's installer is great for advanced users and there are two derivitives that are easy to install (Corel and Stormix). I have heard that Corel is the easiest distribution to install.
Debian has been so danm good that I have no reason to remove it to try Corel or Stormix.
It never needs reinstalling and it upgrades really easily.
AussiePenguin
Melbourne, Australia
ICQ 19255837
Jeremy
Melbourne, Australia
Jabber Australia
AussiePenguin
Melbourne, Australia
ICQ 19255837
Jeremy
Melbourne, Australia
Jabber Australia
Their evil can be used for good. Fdisk is the most effective tool I've found for getting rid of ALL type of nasty windows partitions. A feat which MS fdisk cannot achieve.
basically the question which is now in my mind is the extent to which success in a extensive pervasive mediated system such as the internet relies on the observation of human behavioral patterns by individual proponents.
i've been paying quite some attention to /. for a while now. (previous was my first post) - is not /. a localised micro environment (micro - climate if you like) for the testing and exposure of complex ideas which exhibit a great deal of external interdependencies?
witness the flow of posting to this news item
it begins with a report referring to a new addition to microsofts web site, which is considered a news item precisely because of a number of question marks that hang over it will generate debate
"hmm, suspicious, lets post this and see . . . "
a very large number of subsequent posts focus entirely on the technical information which is pertinant to users
real questions over the validity of the addition to microsoft's site only seem to arise as the amount of contracdictory information / opinion / "other posts" increases
so as the number of viewpoints posting from disparate perspectives increases (possibly each beginning with a very specific idea of his or her position vis a vis the technologies in question, and almost certainly with only a quick guess at the technological vantage point of future readers) the chances that a subsequent reader may mentally mark down the whole topic increases with the decreasing logical integrity of the thread(s)
on the whole it seems very little information appears which seems helpful to anyone who may have basic difficulties with the data and language of the data stored in these threads
more observant readers i think tend sift through /. columns aiming to build for themselves a holisitic picture which reconciles issue with posts/information with their own situation, and derive from this the perspective which a damn good read (i mean thoro' and thinking read) here can really afford
which is something that sadly print media seems poorer and poorer at achieving, for apposite reasons.
but my question stands, could we not all be guinea pigs for m$ PR? are they the best observers of the phoenomenon which is /. ? if anything you put up on your site could be open so quickly to so frenzied, so varied, so often eloquent, persuasive and even vehement comment and opinion, and all of this reflected back upon itself faster than i myself tend to remember i've forgotten to buy a morning paper, would you not want seriously to understand how this works, and what the potential outcome is of a particular informational positioning?
there seems to be a certain darwinianism connected with the way in which posts here rise to the surface, wherein only the most contraversial posts generate enough quickly written replies that ultimately someone goes and writes a whole thought process in a new post, trying, by way of response or retort to earlier thoughts, bon mots, sylloquies, eulogisms and idea proagations, to put the masse of unadulterated brainpower into a coherent exposition of his or her own. but, if a print analogy were to be taken, choosing only the best written, most insightful and articulate essays to begin with, maybe fewer would post in reply in the first place - the excitement of the chase after a more complete idea or understanding would not quite still be there.
but does fewer reply posts mean less significance, in terms of who pays real attention? I am inclined to think so, basing this (not so complete) aspect of my thoughts on the anaolgy of a teacher to the unititiated - involvement combined with digestible lessons is the key to understanding
at this point i'm starting to see what i was getting at when i first negan typing - you see there is a dynamic involved in all this posting which has a real and direct effect on readers appreciation for and understanding of the world (tho' maybe just a small part of it, can we admit ? :) over and above the actual facts which are conveyed
if the internet, and outfits like /. (erm, i presume that's you - all of you) are truly *the future*, whether for buying pantyhose or the primary interface of human communication, do you not think that there is something in all this which IS nonobvious, just as a MD no doubt could tell me much now why my body demands caffeine at a cellular level - there is a process going on, and the bit which is obvious (boil kettle, read /., post, repeat) is not necessarily all there is to it.
gotta go, more coffee required . .
p.s. my email is real, and - eventually - i do intend replying to anyone who writes (back here soon if you prefer something "on the record"
How to Remove Windows 2000 or Windows NT and Install Linux on Your Computer
This article describes how you can remove the Windows NT 4.0 or Windows 2000 operating system from your computer, and then install the Linux operating system.
Anyway, what I'm wondering is this:
what kind of person, qualifying as an "experienced Linux user" would ever actually go to work for microshaft? Is there a classification for that sort of mental disease?
and just for kicks, I wonder how many Microshaft techies discivered the "power of the Open side" of the force, and quit their jobs with laughter after having seen Linux for the first time...
veteran or even newbie users of linux would not
ever do this except to have both so this does not
apply.
amen bro
Shouldn`t Microsoft document how to get rid of Internet Explorer,the flight simulator in Excel 97 and the Pinball game in Word 97 instead of telling us about uninstalling Linux.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
SuSE Linux has a so-called 'live filesystem' CD, that you can boot from and try out lots of apps. It used to come with the distro, but now you have to buy it separately for about $10.
The document starts by saying
:)
"No formal product support is available from Microsoft for this Beta product. For information about obtaining support for a Beta release, please see the documentation included with the Beta product files, or check the Web location from which you downloaded the release."
Part of the document is for NT. A Beta product? You get better support from Red Hat! So much for them telling us that Linux is not support and Windows NT is. It sounds like, if you have Linux - they won't even support NT
hey, this doesnt really surprise me. I mean you cant really blame them. it is a rather amusing thing to pick on (like all Microsoft things :) but considering the amount of stuff in the Knowledge Base its really surprising they only included this now...
:))
though I think the amount of users trying to kill Linux and install windows will be quite low... I thought people were killing windows and installing linux??
who knows, in 10 years the DOJ might be suing for illegally shipping Linux with all new computers... and Microsoft activists will be standing on street corners handing out WIndows 2010 CDs out of shopping carts.
Of course. getting back to reality, in 10 years microosft will have taken over the world and mentioning 'Linux' will be piunishable by death... hahaha and my Microosft shares will make me a nice clean profit... ehehehhehehhehe
No flames please
hey, this doesnt really surprise me. I mean you cant really blame them. it is a rather amusing thing to pick on (like all Microsoft things :) but considering the amount of stuff in the Knowledge Base its really surprising they only included this now...
:))
though I think the amount of users trying to kill Linux and install windows will be quite low... I thought people were killing windows and installing linux??
who knows, in 10 years the DOJ might be suing for illegally shipping Linux with all new computers... and Microsoft activists will be standing on street corners handing out WIndows 2010 CDs out of shopping carts.
Of course. getting back to reality, in 10 years microosft will have taken over the world and mentioning 'Linux' will be piunishable by death... hahaha and my Microosft shares will make me a nice clean profit... ehehehhehehhehe
No flames please
In response to your question, LILOCONFIG is a setup program for LILO that appears to only ship with the Slackware distribution. Apparently that was the only distribution that Microsoft actually tested.
They missed something. Asking users if they use FIPS...
IMHO, now, linux distributions should be packaged with a nice sheet of instructions on removing Windows.
Nope. He didn't have to do something wrong, nor you, necessarily something either right or wrong, to achieve your individual results. You merely discovered teh PRN generator in the Win install code. Periodically, it does what it actually claims to do, rather than obliterating other code and software, and mortally injuring itself on first installs.
Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by tenure.
The purpose of this post is to see whether a certain bug is still arounf in the /. code.
And you think this helps? Sure it stops a little cash from going into Bill's pockets, but at the same time it is only proving to Micro$oft that you need their Software... And your actions only extend Micro$ofts market share. Obviously, if you do not want to pay for Micro$ofts Software, then there is something wrong with the price, or something wrong with the product... If it's the product at fault... pick a different product, there is always another option. If you don't want to pay the price, don't, but don't use the software, boycott it completely and use a competitor (free or otherwise), that way Industry wakes up and starts to notice that there are other viable alternatives, and then we can maybe break the cycle of being locked into Micro$oft products. Isn't the whole point of the GNU/GPL Open Source model to Circumvent the high prices in software in the first place? If you copy M$ software, you circumvent the Free Software Model.. and by doing so, you don't help solve the problem by showing Micro$oft that you know there are viable Free alternatives. Think about it Micro$oft knows there are viable alternatives to it's software, but it does not feel threatened by any of the competitors to say M$Office (pure example), because nothing comes close in termns of Market share... and it has extra market share because every man and his dog managed to get a copy of Office from one of Micro$oft's $elect CD's, regularly distributed to Microsoft corporate customers... Strangely though, Micro$oft isn't worried about this, and why should they be... because as long people use it (Office) at home, they will still want to use it at Work... and thats where M$ makes the bulk of it's money, corporate sales... Until applications like StarOffice and KOffice begin to really penetrate into corporate environments... Micro$oft is going to keep it's prices artificially inflated... Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem, adopt free software, or at least cheaper non-Microsoft alternatives and help show that the consumer and indeed corporations do not want to pay these high prices. Thats my 2 pence worth.
Even if you had to uninstall linux those aren't the best instructions. For example here is what I did (I'll explain why at the bottom)
;), :(,
;).
First got the computer with 98
Then installed NT workstation, had to format HD,
then linux on second partion, Just had to format that one partion,
then installed NT server, no format needed,
then deleted the linux partiions and made into NTFS,
This I never lost data exept when i first installed NT workstation, u lose all with microsofts way.
Why I did this was,
installed NT workstation, It was more powerful than 98 and I got this computer to learn Windows (I'm a mac guy) so I figured learn the better win,
installed linux, really wanted to learn this os and it's not as good for macintoshs,
installed NT server, Got some real power (for windows) Now I'm on my mac on the net thru my proxy server on the winnt server
uninstalled linux, I needed space and I couldn't load X under linux cause my video card is shit, it's one of those with the vram on being the real ram
I know your gonna say buy a new video card and start kicking with linux but I don't have much money, (i didn't pay for the WinNTs I got 'trail' cd's with different serial numbers, but you didn't hear that from me) i'm only 14 and my dad will let me borrow money but I have other things to buy. But if some one knows a cheap video card that works with linux or a way to get this one (SiS 550) please e-mail me at GoRN@RemoveThis.techie.com
sorry about the RemoveThis you have to delete but I don't like spam
Also sorry this is slightly off topicc