HP is doing the right thing. What I'd like to see, though, is a major hardware vendor bundling Mandrake 8.2 (when it's out). It will probably conform to the LSB more than any other distro, thus making it friendlier to 3rd party apps (if and when they start appearing). Mandrake has excellent config, a unified appearance, and urpmi is almost as nice as apt. So if HP or Dell or whomever want to sell home systems, they shouldn't bother with Red Hat anyway, and go with Mandrake.
If most software is being written by other software by 2011, then I am screwed. This is like being a mechanic, hand-crafting your own tools, and then have them take over and start fixing things.
But you know, I really wonder. As software becomes more "macro" in scope, with stable, heavily-featured containers for components, then maybe software will be simple enough to generate automatically, simply by a program assembling many small components together after parsing a description of what it is you want. In fact, this is probably almost possible today -- I could write an XML file which specifies the features I need for my e-commerce server (these security characteristics, those features, the ability to pay this way) and a program could parse it and throw together all the readily available components that are out there now. Of course, tools will need to be written and so forth, but for more general stuff like applications and server software, I wonder if the time will come when we look back on programmers who wrote lines of code in the same way we now look at programmers who punched cards?
Re:.NET, J2EE, WebServices
on
What is .NET?
·
· Score: 1
Why the heck is this offtopic? The article specifically mentioned J2EE and that it is.NET's greatest (only) competition.
By the way, you are correct. I will go further, and say that J2EE benefits from competition among container manufacturers (Weblogic vs. Websphere vs...), whereas MS controls whatever MTS is called now. Also,.NET does not support stateful objects, only stateless ones (MS claims they aren't necessary -- wrongo). Finally,.NET does not have the equivalent of JMS. Combined with message-driven EJBs, they provide an excellent alternative to the RPC-only.NET (OK, it's SOAP, but it boils down to RPCs). Of course, J2EE supports RPCs also, with RMI.
.NET has a long way to go before it becomes enterprise-level.
Re:.NET good, not evil
on
What is .NET?
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Well, you can use any language that happens to look very similar to C#, and which has a CLR compiler. Take a look at some of the languages that have been ported to.NET, and you'll see what I mean. They are modified to look like C# with different syntaxes. Example: Smalltalk# (or whatever it's called). Forget about dynamic typing anymore. Basically, you can use any language so long as it's mauled to look like C# (static typing, etc.) This multiple-language thing is not a big win, really.
Isn't this like saying, "I want to build a car. I haven't defined what this car is or what its performance should be, or even any of its requirements. But all of the tools I use should be purple, and have a lot of snap-on components."
Choose the best tool for the job -- but first, figure out what the job is.
I live in Canada, so I'm familiar with the NA situation. What's it like in European IT centres (London, Amsterdam, Dublin, etc.)? Let's say I wanted to find a contract as a Java or C++ programmer, with lots of Linux/Unix experience (I'm not a web programmer). What's the deal over there?
In NA, it's a funny situation: there are a LOT of web people out of work (Flash, Javascript, etc.) but there is still plenty of work in the higher-end tech stuff (C++, Java esp. J2EE, and so forth). It seems like there is still something of a shortage of programmers -- I still get calls from headhunters, though not like before, I admit -- and the people who are really hurting are the web developers.
OK, first I'm sorry about the crankiness...I'm just so sick of people thinking it's all about the desktop.
Sure,.NET may succeed on the desktop, who knows. But it's really not the main focus of the overall architecture. The Common Language stuff will work as an application framework, but really, you're basically talking Win32 -- there isn't a compelling reason to switch from the ATL or MFC or whatever. The.NET strategy is server-based. MS knows as well as anyone else that web-based interactions with a remote server (whether it's serving up your word processor or a car-rental/airlane booking service) are where the future is at. I don't deny that the.NET framework will count for something on the desktop, but MS already own that. They want to own the server side as well.
If you still don't believe me, you'll (kindly) notice that MS marketing literature is mainly directed at J2EE. MS even went so far as to re-implement the Java Pet Store server in.NET to compare benchmarks. Remember, MS is about increasing revenue -- it's not happening on the desktop. Once (if) web services explode, MS wants.NET to be the implementation framework of choice.
Argh, replying to an AC is a bad idea...but here goes...
We deploy on Linux, mainly.
It's pretty clear you're confused. J2EE is not "niche". There's a reason MS is specificly targeting J2EE with.NET: big installations use it. Websphere alone has something like 35 000 deployments, and it's not even close to BEA. Something like 90% of the big U.S. banks use it, and 75% of the international banks. Amazon uses J2EE (BEA, I believe). It is huge, and getting huger -- it's shaping up to be the platform of choice for everything from legacy integration to web services. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a total fan -- J2EE 1.1 came up pretty short; 2.0 is a lot better, but not perfect (certain security issues are still a bit fuzzy) -- but the fact remains, it's here to stay, and is currently the dominant app server spec. Like it or not.
Please read the article before posting next time. It specificly states J2EE is the MS target.
"Java is a neat little concept - that has some neat little benefits. But it has caught on for large-scale applications."
Uh, have you ever heard of the "little concept" called J2EE? It's the app server/services technology that powers a big chunk of the large-scale e-commerce backend. I work with this stuff every day, and it has a lot more than "neat little benefits". Have you ever heard of IBM's Websphere? How about BEA's Weblogic? J2EE is currently the ONLY credible enterprise-level app server standard around.
Get your head out of your ass. Little Windows applications at your computer super-store aren't what this stuff is about. It's the server side where the big money, and the truly large-scale systems, are. And on the server, Java rules.
Actually, it's pretty easy -- you present a list of dictionary definitions for the words, which the user chooses from, and then you add (silently) synonyms and other key words for the word from that dictionary definition. For example, if I type in "Java" as my search term, and then choose "An island in the South Pacific" as my dictionary definition, then the word "island" might be added to the search, giving "Java island". This will turn up the relevant results.
I know all this because I implemented this exact thing once, using Google as the back end (my program accepted some terms, did the dictionary thing then submitted it to Google to get results (it was a special dictionary that I preprocessed with a Perl script)). It worked really well, but I never did anything with it.
Precisely. I'd like to add to your comment by saying that most of these "my Grandma can't use Linux" arguments seem awfully American -- in France, for example, Mandrake is very popular, and in Germany Linux is pervasive also.
1. KDE is shipped as default with the major desktop distros (Mandrake, Suse, etc.) Many would argue it is far and away the most "user friendly" desktop for Linux (as the companies I mentioned believe).
2. KDE comes with Ark, which decompresses.tar,.tar.gz,.zip, etc., thus rendering your argument moot. Click the file, get a WinZip-type decompression window.
I despair when I read comments like yours, I really do. Please educate yourself before making such bold statements of "fact".
You're correct regarding video editing, but so far as watching video goes, nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- touches MPlayer. It plays stuff that WMP barfs on. The newest release plays everything: Windows Media, DivX, Real, MPEG2, and on and on. It's rock solid, has a neato gui (though it's GTK, can't have everything), is controllable from the command-line for those who want that, and so forth. I simply set my file associations in Konqueror to open it when I click on a video file, and I never have to worry about it (except for QT with Sorensen:( )
You've made kind of a non-point. OEMs configure the OS and its apps in-house. It would be nice for people to order a Dell and see Netscape as one of the options. That would be best for the consumer, not having something rammed down their throats with no choice (even if you happen to like "your" IE6.)
As for your.NET comment: The browser issue is NOT the past, it is very much the present, because the browser is a crucial part of.NET. Don't you think having more browsers on the desktop might prevent proprietary hooks in the.NET protocols and the CLI? At the very least, it would help to keep MS honest about their web strategy, and maybe allow superior technology (J2EE) to have an even chance.
Well, after reading your comment and the others on this movie, I can only say one thing: there are some really, REALLY deep divisions in the United States. It's like an even split (as exemplified by your last election) between deeply liberal and deeply conservative, not to mention black and white. I guess it's healthy for the world's superpower to have dissenting voices and healthy debate, but both sides seem so entrenched (at least to non-Americans like me) and so full of rhetoric it's hard to imagine any common ground being reached.
When I go to the U.S., I'm struck by the obvious heterogeneity of the place: living standards, beliefs, political views. It's so different from Europe, even Canada, where the political and social landscapes have far fewer sharp divisions. Sure, it leads to a lot of healthy debate, but it also leads to a lot of unhappy citizens when the "other side" comes into power. Nothing makes that more clear than discussing U.S. foreign policy, as represented by films such as "Black Hawk Down": in it, people see moral good, moral evil, black vs. white, empire building, humanitarian compassion, and more.
Resorting to the old "The Register sucks!" argument may or may not be justified, but you're just too knee-jerk. Though judging by your posting history, you are a Windows zealot...
Windows XP was also shown to be significantly slower running Q3 using a GeForce2 on identical hardware (dual boot machine.) Your desktop options don't affect game speed, incidentally.
The parent comment is absolutely correct. MS has nothing to compete with J2EE: scalable, enterprise-ready server apps. MS wants this market and offers a sort of "upgrade path" -- why rewrite in Java, when you can stick with (more or less) the original languages and run everything on the CLI? Couple this with the necessity of running the vendor-side Passport COM object on IIS, and you have a two-pronged assault on the server market -- no one wants a hetergeneous server farm, so hey, if we've got IIS/Passport, and the CLI lets us upgrade existing code, let's do it!
It's no great conspiracy (at least not in the short term) -- it's just intense competition for a lucrative market.
Yup, you're right. LimeWire is a fine piece of work, and I'm thinking about buying a copy (get rid of the ads, anyway.)
The problem is, it's not the only Gnutella client on the network. Many of the others do not have freeloader control. The question is, how do you ensure there are no freeloaders, without leaving it up to the client's discretion? Embed it in the protocol?
If Lindows incorporates the WineX stuff so it can run DirectX, then already that's a step up from VMWare and (last time I heard -- could be wrong, though) Win4Lin. Also, my VMWare install does weird things with USB; maybe Lindows will be better (since USB works pretty well on Linux now.)
My experiences are the same as yours. I get harassed by Shaw Cable on a weekly basis to drop DSL and go with their cable offering -- nice to have competition and choice!
And therein lies the rub. In America, it's thought that competition will work best for the consumer when it's applied to the _whole system_ -- from services to infrastructure. Sorry to disappoint, but a government that funds the infrastructure, then steps back and allows competition for services, is what's best for the consumer. Canada got it right; it would be nice if the U.S. followed suit.
OpenLDAP works great when configured correctly, even under heavy load.
As for the "home machines" comment...well, you must be trolling:
FreeBSD
Linux
BIND
Sendmail
JBoss
...etc.
Yes, all of these "fall down go boom" under heavy load, unlike their closed counterparts...oh, wait a second.
Basically, you're assuming that all open source projects are little home things that, in order to make them "real", need to be adopted by commercial interests and "fixed". That's just silly.
It's nifty, I agree. KDE can do this too, with Kamera -- your digital camera (I have a Canon Powershot A20) can be browsed with kamera:// in Konqueror and you can drag, drop, etc. Pretty cool, since Konqueror is also your file manager...nicely integrated.
Gee, that's funny. I use W2K all the time, and it crashes regularly. It also does weird things like redraw the desktop when I clear IE's history list. Any OS that can crash (blue screen, no less) on a single line of code isn't worth much. (printf("\t\b\b "; I believe.)
Oh, and comparing applications to an OS is pretty dumb. I can only assume you aren't a technical person.
And by the way, W2K is a GODAWFUL development platform. XP is even worse. Finally, both are very susceptible to bad video drivers. At least under X, if the driver crashes, you don't bring down the OS.
XML and SOAP were not developed by Microsoft. The point is that proprietary formats in widely-used technologies like DVDs can lead to abuse and anti-competitive behaviour.
Slashdot Mirror
HP is doing the right thing. What I'd like to see, though, is a major hardware vendor bundling Mandrake 8.2 (when it's out). It will probably conform to the LSB more than any other distro, thus making it friendlier to 3rd party apps (if and when they start appearing). Mandrake has excellent config, a unified appearance, and urpmi is almost as nice as apt. So if HP or Dell or whomever want to sell home systems, they shouldn't bother with Red Hat anyway, and go with Mandrake.
If most software is being written by other software by 2011, then I am screwed. This is like being a mechanic, hand-crafting your own tools, and then have them take over and start fixing things.
But you know, I really wonder. As software becomes more "macro" in scope, with stable, heavily-featured containers for components, then maybe software will be simple enough to generate automatically, simply by a program assembling many small components together after parsing a description of what it is you want. In fact, this is probably almost possible today -- I could write an XML file which specifies the features I need for my e-commerce server (these security characteristics, those features, the ability to pay this way) and a program could parse it and throw together all the readily available components that are out there now. Of course, tools will need to be written and so forth, but for more general stuff like applications and server software, I wonder if the time will come when we look back on programmers who wrote lines of code in the same way we now look at programmers who punched cards?
Why the heck is this offtopic? The article specifically mentioned J2EE and that it is .NET's greatest (only) competition.
.NET does not support stateful objects, only stateless ones (MS claims they aren't necessary -- wrongo). Finally, .NET does not have the equivalent of JMS. Combined with message-driven EJBs, they provide an excellent alternative to the RPC-only .NET (OK, it's SOAP, but it boils down to RPCs). Of course, J2EE supports RPCs also, with RMI.
By the way, you are correct. I will go further, and say that J2EE benefits from competition among container manufacturers (Weblogic vs. Websphere vs...), whereas MS controls whatever MTS is called now. Also,
.NET has a long way to go before it becomes enterprise-level.
Well, you can use any language that happens to look very similar to C#, and which has a CLR compiler. Take a look at some of the languages that have been ported to .NET, and you'll see what I mean. They are modified to look like C# with different syntaxes. Example: Smalltalk# (or whatever it's called). Forget about dynamic typing anymore. Basically, you can use any language so long as it's mauled to look like C# (static typing, etc.) This multiple-language thing is not a big win, really.
Isn't this like saying, "I want to build a car. I haven't defined what this car is or what its performance should be, or even any of its requirements. But all of the tools I use should be purple, and have a lot of snap-on components."
Choose the best tool for the job -- but first, figure out what the job is.
I live in Canada, so I'm familiar with the NA situation. What's it like in European IT centres (London, Amsterdam, Dublin, etc.)? Let's say I wanted to find a contract as a Java or C++ programmer, with lots of Linux/Unix experience (I'm not a web programmer). What's the deal over there?
In NA, it's a funny situation: there are a LOT of web people out of work (Flash, Javascript, etc.) but there is still plenty of work in the higher-end tech stuff (C++, Java esp. J2EE, and so forth). It seems like there is still something of a shortage of programmers -- I still get calls from headhunters, though not like before, I admit -- and the people who are really hurting are the web developers.
OK, first I'm sorry about the crankiness...I'm just so sick of people thinking it's all about the desktop.
.NET may succeed on the desktop, who knows. But it's really not the main focus of the overall architecture. The Common Language stuff will work as an application framework, but really, you're basically talking Win32 -- there isn't a compelling reason to switch from the ATL or MFC or whatever. The .NET strategy is server-based. MS knows as well as anyone else that web-based interactions with a remote server (whether it's serving up your word processor or a car-rental/airlane booking service) are where the future is at. I don't deny that the .NET framework will count for something on the desktop, but MS already own that. They want to own the server side as well.
.NET to compare benchmarks. Remember, MS is about increasing revenue -- it's not happening on the desktop. Once (if) web services explode, MS wants .NET to be the implementation framework of choice.
Sure,
If you still don't believe me, you'll (kindly) notice that MS marketing literature is mainly directed at J2EE. MS even went so far as to re-implement the Java Pet Store server in
Argh, replying to an AC is a bad idea...but here goes...
.NET: big installations use it. Websphere alone has something like 35 000 deployments, and it's not even close to BEA. Something like 90% of the big U.S. banks use it, and 75% of the international banks. Amazon uses J2EE (BEA, I believe). It is huge, and getting huger -- it's shaping up to be the platform of choice for everything from legacy integration to web services. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a total fan -- J2EE 1.1 came up pretty short; 2.0 is a lot better, but not perfect (certain security issues are still a bit fuzzy) -- but the fact remains, it's here to stay, and is currently the dominant app server spec. Like it or not.
We deploy on Linux, mainly.
It's pretty clear you're confused. J2EE is not "niche". There's a reason MS is specificly targeting J2EE with
Please read the article before posting next time. It specificly states J2EE is the MS target.
"Java is a neat little concept - that has some neat little benefits. But it has caught on for large-scale applications."
Uh, have you ever heard of the "little concept" called J2EE? It's the app server/services technology that powers a big chunk of the large-scale e-commerce backend. I work with this stuff every day, and it has a lot more than "neat little benefits". Have you ever heard of IBM's Websphere? How about BEA's Weblogic? J2EE is currently the ONLY credible enterprise-level app server standard around.
Get your head out of your ass. Little Windows applications at your computer super-store aren't what this stuff is about. It's the server side where the big money, and the truly large-scale systems, are. And on the server, Java rules.
Actually, it's pretty easy -- you present a list of dictionary definitions for the words, which the user chooses from, and then you add (silently) synonyms and other key words for the word from that dictionary definition. For example, if I type in "Java" as my search term, and then choose "An island in the South Pacific" as my dictionary definition, then the word "island" might be added to the search, giving "Java island". This will turn up the relevant results.
I know all this because I implemented this exact thing once, using Google as the back end (my program accepted some terms, did the dictionary thing then submitted it to Google to get results (it was a special dictionary that I preprocessed with a Perl script)). It worked really well, but I never did anything with it.
Precisely. I'd like to add to your comment by saying that most of these "my Grandma can't use Linux" arguments seem awfully American -- in France, for example, Mandrake is very popular, and in Germany Linux is pervasive also.
Wrong:
.tar, .tar.gz, .zip, etc., thus rendering your argument moot. Click the file, get a WinZip-type decompression window.
1. KDE is shipped as default with the major desktop distros (Mandrake, Suse, etc.) Many would argue it is far and away the most "user friendly" desktop for Linux (as the companies I mentioned believe).
2. KDE comes with Ark, which decompresses
I despair when I read comments like yours, I really do. Please educate yourself before making such bold statements of "fact".
You're correct regarding video editing, but so far as watching video goes, nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- touches MPlayer. It plays stuff that WMP barfs on. The newest release plays everything: Windows Media, DivX, Real, MPEG2, and on and on. It's rock solid, has a neato gui (though it's GTK, can't have everything), is controllable from the command-line for those who want that, and so forth. I simply set my file associations in Konqueror to open it when I click on a video file, and I never have to worry about it (except for QT with Sorensen :( )
You've made kind of a non-point. OEMs configure the OS and its apps in-house. It would be nice for people to order a Dell and see Netscape as one of the options. That would be best for the consumer, not having something rammed down their throats with no choice (even if you happen to like "your" IE6.)
.NET comment: The browser issue is NOT the past, it is very much the present, because the browser is a crucial part of .NET. Don't you think having more browsers on the desktop might prevent proprietary hooks in the .NET protocols and the CLI? At the very least, it would help to keep MS honest about their web strategy, and maybe allow superior technology (J2EE) to have an even chance.
As for your
Well, after reading your comment and the others on this movie, I can only say one thing: there are some really, REALLY deep divisions in the United States. It's like an even split (as exemplified by your last election) between deeply liberal and deeply conservative, not to mention black and white. I guess it's healthy for the world's superpower to have dissenting voices and healthy debate, but both sides seem so entrenched (at least to non-Americans like me) and so full of rhetoric it's hard to imagine any common ground being reached.
When I go to the U.S., I'm struck by the obvious heterogeneity of the place: living standards, beliefs, political views. It's so different from Europe, even Canada, where the political and social landscapes have far fewer sharp divisions. Sure, it leads to a lot of healthy debate, but it also leads to a lot of unhappy citizens when the "other side" comes into power. Nothing makes that more clear than discussing U.S. foreign policy, as represented by films such as "Black Hawk Down": in it, people see moral good, moral evil, black vs. white, empire building, humanitarian compassion, and more.
Resorting to the old "The Register sucks!" argument may or may not be justified, but you're just too knee-jerk. Though judging by your posting history, you are a Windows zealot...
Windows XP was also shown to be significantly slower running Q3 using a GeForce2 on identical hardware (dual boot machine.) Your desktop options don't affect game speed, incidentally.
The parent comment is absolutely correct. MS has nothing to compete with J2EE: scalable, enterprise-ready server apps. MS wants this market and offers a sort of "upgrade path" -- why rewrite in Java, when you can stick with (more or less) the original languages and run everything on the CLI? Couple this with the necessity of running the vendor-side Passport COM object on IIS, and you have a two-pronged assault on the server market -- no one wants a hetergeneous server farm, so hey, if we've got IIS/Passport, and the CLI lets us upgrade existing code, let's do it!
It's no great conspiracy (at least not in the short term) -- it's just intense competition for a lucrative market.
Yup, you're right. LimeWire is a fine piece of work, and I'm thinking about buying a copy (get rid of the ads, anyway.)
The problem is, it's not the only Gnutella client on the network. Many of the others do not have freeloader control. The question is, how do you ensure there are no freeloaders, without leaving it up to the client's discretion? Embed it in the protocol?
If Lindows incorporates the WineX stuff so it can run DirectX, then already that's a step up from VMWare and (last time I heard -- could be wrong, though) Win4Lin. Also, my VMWare install does weird things with USB; maybe Lindows will be better (since USB works pretty well on Linux now.)
My experiences are the same as yours. I get harassed by Shaw Cable on a weekly basis to drop DSL and go with their cable offering -- nice to have competition and choice!
And therein lies the rub. In America, it's thought that competition will work best for the consumer when it's applied to the _whole system_ -- from services to infrastructure. Sorry to disappoint, but a government that funds the infrastructure, then steps back and allows competition for services, is what's best for the consumer. Canada got it right; it would be nice if the U.S. followed suit.
OpenLDAP works great when configured correctly, even under heavy load.
As for the "home machines" comment...well, you must be trolling:
FreeBSD
Linux
BIND
Sendmail
JBoss
...etc.
Yes, all of these "fall down go boom" under heavy load, unlike their closed counterparts...oh, wait a second.
Basically, you're assuming that all open source projects are little home things that, in order to make them "real", need to be adopted by commercial interests and "fixed". That's just silly.
It's nifty, I agree. KDE can do this too, with Kamera -- your digital camera (I have a Canon Powershot A20) can be browsed with kamera:// in Konqueror and you can drag, drop, etc. Pretty cool, since Konqueror is also your file manager...nicely integrated.
Take the final box (not the one you're holding.)
What's this called again? The Monte something?
Gee, that's funny. I use W2K all the time, and it crashes regularly. It also does weird things like redraw the desktop when I clear IE's history list. Any OS that can crash (blue screen, no less) on a single line of code isn't worth much. (printf("\t\b\b "; I believe.)
Oh, and comparing applications to an OS is pretty dumb. I can only assume you aren't a technical person.
And by the way, W2K is a GODAWFUL development platform. XP is even worse. Finally, both are very susceptible to bad video drivers. At least under X, if the driver crashes, you don't bring down the OS.
But I'm talking to a closed mind here.
XML and SOAP were not developed by Microsoft. The point is that proprietary formats in widely-used technologies like DVDs can lead to abuse and anti-competitive behaviour.