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HP Selling Systems With Linux
jeffy124 writes: "We were all very upset last August when Dell discontinued selling Linux on their machines. Good news - HP's picking up the slack. They're shipping machines pre-installed with Red Hat 7.1. Unfortunately, checking their website shows that only business machines will have a Linux option; home machines are still WinXP only."
For servers nix is amazing. For desktops, X still lacks too much to offer it as an alternative to Win.
30% off web hosting. Coupon code "SLASHDOT".
"Unfortunately, checking their website shows that only business machines will have a Linux option; home machines are still WinXP only."
The last thing "linux needs" right now is a bunch of unhappy home users with an OS that isn't quite ready for a casual user.... And it just isn't.
But... RH 7.1 is a poor distro... Why not 7.2?
Dell is still installing Redhat on its servers/workstations.
here is a link.
I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
Unfortunately, checking their website shows that only business machines will have a Linux option; home machines are still WinXP only.
So much for the claim that Linux is only a toy, not ready for the business environment.
Nope, no sig
I want all the sweets like hot-plug IDE devices (CD, DVD, CD-RW and floppy!), halt to memory and DVD playback.
Until all those are made available out-of-the-box, Linux does not exist for me on laptops (or desktops for that matter). That's why I still use WinME on my laptop. At least that way I can watch my DVDs and swap DVD/CD-RW to a 3.5" drive without resetting the computer.
The owls are not what they seem
like maybe you can sell lemonade outside on sundays...
So what I'd really like to see is the ability to buy an absolutely clean system from a major vendor at a significant discount (i.e. no MS tax).
Imagine a Beowulf... ::head rings as he his slapped collectively by hundreds::
By the way, what is the difference in cost on these machines without the Microsoft Tax?
The speed of time is one second per second.
Who would want an HP 'home machine' anyway? Esp. after the previous Slashdot story with lots of comments about how badly made they are and how clueless / obstructionist the tech support is...
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Unfortunately, checking their website shows that only business machines will have a Linux option; home machines are still WinXP only."
As has been said before, Dell is still offering linux on their machines for business and server applications as well. Both Dell and HP have realized that linux is not quite ready for the home desktop, and quite rightly so.
I can always count on slashdot for interesting, groundbreaking news, such as HP selling systems with linux! I mean, WOWZERS!!! I expect this story to have atleast 1200 comments by days end.
Thanks slashdot!
Joseph?
Why are they shipping a distro that is nearly 1 year old! Especially considering it's successor has been out for months.
Also, what happened with this rumoured mandrake on hp i've been hearing about? Were't they putting Mandrake as an option on home PC's ?
I get more coffee breaks due to reboots!
The govt has been stepping up ... this is where they should step up. Let the consumer choose the OS they would like.
Don't give me the, they have to because of a license agreement crap. It CAN be done if they choose to. That is why I ALWAYS suggest to a friend to by their computers LOCAL, you can always pick what OS you would like to use.
Only one of the many reasons buying your own custom system from a local vendor makes sense.
Well, it's nice they're taking up a little slack, but have they fixed all that proprietary hardware crap they used to use? If they haven't, then maybe it's Linux that's improved.
You are all fartheads.
What about the HP LHr series, intel based, servers? They have been shipping with RedHat Linux for years.
Sure they are "servers" but they make a decent SMP workstation too with a Matrox G400 MAX installed.
It is not a very big step for HP, packing Linux on the workstations.
Not in my opinion.
Local Fry's (San Jose, CA) is selling PCs with Linux preinstalled. If you want WinXP, you need to pay extra.
Je ne parle pas francais.
first I want to hate them for this
but now they go and start ptting linux on there machines. What a person to do???
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The reason that they are shipping a year old system is that that is what they tested with. They confirmed that their hardware will all function fine under that version of Linux. They must have fully tested and configured all aspects of the machine to be confident that what they are selling will work with the minimal amount of fuss.
Since they may have spent six months or more testing, tweaking and then retesting, that is what they will ship. The testing cycle of any new product takes time and care. Simply slapping it together and seeing that is "mostly" works is just not good enough to put your name on something.
HP is probably beginning to test or are nearing completion of testing Red Hat 7.2 on their systems. In another 6 months or so, they will probably have those systems ready to ship.
That is the way that business operates. You will understand when, or if, you get into a position with a company that is looking at updating systems. Knowing that something "works" is not the same as knowing that it works by testing the heck out of it.
--
.sig seperator
--
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
HP has been selling Linux workstations for a long time now. Their first ones were the Visualize xl and pl, and came with RedHat 6.something preinstalled. Only now they have been replaced with the x**00 series; some more information about them is available here.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
We keep seein these articles with titles like is linux ready for the desktop?, is linux good enough for business, etc. I think these tend to blind us to the fact that the update of Linux has been nothing short of stunning.
Remember, just four years ago sys admins had to hide their Linux systems so the boss wouldn't find out about them. And now, IBM, HP, Compaq, Sun and other heavy hitters of the IT industry are increasingly basing their strategies around it. And we all know that Sun didn't even really want to, they were forced to by changes in the market. That demonstrates the power of the change that is taking place.
I had a go at using Linux in 1998. From many perspectives, it was, frankly, crap. Look where we are today, less than four years later.
People always assume that everything happens really quickly in the IT industry, but it isn't so. Things take time. Decades sometimes. The amount of mindshare that Linux has got in the last four years is just fantastic. The revolution is happening, and it's happening quickly.
People say that Linux can never compete on the desktop. I'm not so sure. At the moment it's grabbing bites out of virtually every other niche market in a way that Bill Gates must have dreamt about doing in the past. Now it must be giving him nightmares.
I can't wait to see what's going to happen in the next four years.
It is really nice to see a hardware vendor allowing a choice in the type of operating system a user can have. Hopefully (and keep those fingers crossed) this is just the beginning, and will eventually extend to the retail market HP's (Pavillion series).
Let's hope it fares better with HP than with Dell.
I've been running Mandrake on my HP Vectra VLi8 with no problems (although it has a VIA chipset) for quite a while now. I actually get things done!
This is funny. Should have been modded up. I choose to blame society
On a business PC, I see a "OpenOS with Mandrake CD option" but no Redhat option.
xe310-s2 system.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
It may cost just a little bit more to build your own and there are some who don't have the know-how to do it, granted. And for the Slashdot community at large this doesn't apply, myself included. I try to help my friends build their own if I'm able and most of them seem to want Windows, so I give up.
Build your own. Get blank HDs and install 7.2, or Mandrake, or Debian, or whatever. Don't pay the M$ OR the HP tax.
Useless opinions, worthless observations, and more!
Our organization is looking at these closely as an possible replacement for Sun machines on the desktop. Running Linux on Intel hardware is very compelling from a price/performance perspective.
The Good Thing® about HP supporting these is the assurance of the big name. Linux may be ready for the enterprise, but no one wants to be the pioneer, anymore than anyone wants to be the pioneer for WinXP in the corporate environement. Conservatism rules.
In corporate IT support, you'd get real nervous rolling out brand X hardware and a Linux distribution whose track record of worthiness is only proven on the desktops of individual expert hackers. When hundreds of newbies pound the keyboards, you want to be reassured and know what to expect to face in terms of support issues.
Enterprise-wide experience coming from a large company like HP (it could just as well have been IBM or Sun) is precisely helpful in this regard. The slightly outdated distribution is actually an encouraging sign that a lengthy test period has gone into the whole setup.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Apple is shipping all of its computers with BSD!
My other sig is extremely clever...
We are all "businesses". We take in food and give out waste, so we technically do what all businesses do. Therefore, we should be able to buy the business model of the machines.
I will be a trully happy man when HP can give tech support to those of us who insist on putting Linux on their Laptops.
HP is doing the right thing. What I'd like to see, though, is a major hardware vendor bundling Mandrake 8.2 (when it's out). It will probably conform to the LSB more than any other distro, thus making it friendlier to 3rd party apps (if and when they start appearing). Mandrake has excellent config, a unified appearance, and urpmi is almost as nice as apt. So if HP or Dell or whomever want to sell home systems, they shouldn't bother with Red Hat anyway, and go with Mandrake.
is this all part of the Linux .COM strategy? I hope so! I know so!
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess? - Joshua (Wargames)
No thanks.
The owls are not what they seem
And i'd like to order Linux. I very much doubt that there'd be too many people accidentally choosing the Linux option.
If anythimg it'll lower the cost of their machines as they get out from the Microsoft tax, making them better options for us system builders.
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
Name one thing X can't do that Windows can.
I appreciate the mod and all ;) but I'm really fishing for an answer to the question... 7.2 is fairly well tested and fixes numerous flaws in 7.1... What gives here?
Like "DOJ says Microsoft can't come preinstalled on new PC's." When I see that or something similar forcing M$ off the PC then I will know we have won. But, is this is victory we want or is the vision of the good folks at Red Hat what we need?
because they need to evalute each version against there systems.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Linux was available on this laptop, but it was kind of silly to take that version for an extra few bucks, especially since we planned on freebsd anyway . . .
hawk
Looks like IBM is still way ahead as far as offering Linux solutions
Just out of curiosity, are there any major manufactures who will install non-redhat distros?
You want to integrate the robustness (is this a word) of Linux in a Corporate environment FIRST. This way, when the people who are running these systems go home at the end of the day, and have to use Windows on their home PC, they will wonder why.
Microsoft dominates the Home User due to the fact that it is what people most run AT WORK. If the foothold takes, and Linux actually gets more than "Geek" approval, it will be a major step towards eliminating the Microsoft dominated users.
It will require applications, and with home access via Broadband, people will also want to use the same applications. this could start a trend towards "If it isn't available, I will create it" similar to what happened under Windows. the development tools are already there. Linux just needs to be a presence and illustrate its effectiveness in daily Business Use.
It would be great if DELL and COMPAQ would get back on the bandwagon, but sometimes you take what you can get.
You keep going until you die..."Me".
I work for a contractor for HP(we handle their mid-range computers(NT, Linux, and Unix) for Trade Show and Software Developer rentals) and we've had Linux offered for a while now but it's appearant that it wasn't well advertised to the general public. We can load it on the X1100, X2100, and X4000. I don't deal with the consumer level PC's so I don't know about that. Interesting note though HP(90% sure of this) is moving away from Redhat to Debian, couldn't reach agreement on new contract with Redhat.
This is no loss.
1. Home users have time to build and install their own systems.
2. Regular Linux users never buy prebuilt computers.
3. People interesting in learning Linux are also plausible to build their own system.
4. Joe Ordinary considering Linux will also consider having his friend - Joe Geek - build and set up a Linux box as his desktop machine.
In otherwords, people considering Linux don't turn to HP.
A little digression: how would Joe Ordinary react if his new PC didn't come with Windows, but with Linux? He just ordered a PC assuming it ran Windows.
Look a monkey!
.. they dont want to tell business companies: "well yeah, this MS-solution is buggy, and it costs$$$ in consultation every month.. in fact we dont even use it. but it's the solution you want so we're selling it to you as an only option"
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Wait. HP should offer a no OS option on all of their systems. Their machines are pretty standard stuff. You could probably install any linux distro, and anyway -- RH (in my own opinion) is kind of a poor distro. Mandrake and Debian are more robust. But, it is at least good that they are offering an alternative, but dont be suprised when MS files a lawsuit against them.
A major selling point with the Netserver line is the ASR (Auto-Server Restart) provided with the hardware. I have been asking for over two years for information on taking advantage of this feature on the Netserver LC 2, LC 3, and LC 2000. So far, the only responce I have gotten is that it is follows the open standard of IMPI and any OS which supports IMPI should be able to use the ASR feature. Well, Linux does support IMPI with the lm_sensors package on several systems, but not HP Netservers. The responce of "we follow the open standard IMPI" is much like saying "we follow the open standard SCSI," without knowing what SCSI controller driver to use, the fact that the devices would be accessed with SCSI packets does no matter much. But HP seems to keeping what SMbus controller is used on the HP Netservers a deep dark secret. So, I have yet to find ANYONE that can successfully run lm_sensors on an HP Netserver or find an alternative ASR package which will work with version 2.4.17 of the Linux kernel. This is the type of thing that is part of HP's "support" of Linux. It might look good on paper for new customers they are trying to get to buy-in to HP Netservers but for those that are actually trying to get the advertized ASR feature working with the HP Netservers that have already been bought the HP support of Linux is more like a big fuck you than a support system that can be taken seriously.
Bottom line--at the end of the day two year later, the advertized features of the HP Netserver are still not fully funcitional or even fully openly spec'd for third party driver writters. I can get more advertized features working on Dell hardware than HP, if all you care about is who pre-installs to give a "support" metal too then you have a real pathetic defination of support.
Saying whatever you want to hear, pre-installing whatever you want pre-installed... that is NOT *support*. That is just making a sale. HP is marketing to the same people that buy their car from the shadiest used car lot. When all is said and done, that ASR feature that the HP salesman went on and on and on about is not ever going to get anything from the Linux v2.4.17 kernel support for SMbus to ever do a reboot if there is a DoS. There just is not enought specifications that HP is willing to be open about to "INVENT" such an additional HP Netserver SMbus driver for the Linux kernel.
I for one, have gotten so far into the "Buy computer, reformat computer" mindset that it would be hard for me to accept a prefab computer even if it *did* have my obscure operating system of choice.
Got Rhinos?
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
HP was gracious enough to loan me one of these machines for a couple of weeks; so that I could write a review of it. I've only had it for a day, but it appears to be everything that one could ask for in a Linux graphics workstation. It's incredibly fast, has unbelieveable graphics, and has a customized RedHat configuration that just works.
HP has seen the light, too, and is running XFree86 instead of the custom Xserver inherited from their HPUX platforms. Their first Linux boxes, released about a year ago, weren't running XFree, IIRC.
More to follow, of course. One line summary -- The machines are real, and they rock.
thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
hawk
(Not that I couldn't have found the info -- I'm a tech-type/engineering dood, after all -- but I just didn't have the time. If it's not in the user manual for the hardware, I'm not going to search for it.)
In December, I purchased Mandrake 8.1 and was blown away. It's actually *easier* to install than Windows was. Yes, the desktop has its irritations -- for example, because of my eyes, I can't go higher than 800x600, and some of the windows in KDE are "fixed" at higher resolution, so part of the window runs off the screen -- but I am having a blast.
My point, of course, is that zillions of people like me are discovering Linux for the first time. We are enjoying it very much. Like one poster says here, rather than being upset that Linux is taking two steps f'wards and one step b'wards, be glad of the fact that it's making inroads. Plus, you DON'T want it to be released to the unwashed masses until it's completely ready.
(My own experience a couple of years ago almost soured me to Linux, but a fellow engineer encouraged me to try the latest distros. I'm glad I did.)
The only reason I keep Windows in a dual boot was so that I could run Turbo Tax and a few games. But everything else is done in Linux now. I also expect this problem to go away in the future. I'm committed.
Patience, folks. Linux is getting there. Rather than worrying about a minor setback today, be confident of where Linux will be in a year or two.
Even YOU might be surprised. :)
You are assuming that he actually has any friends & not just blowing smoke out his ass.
I'm pretty sure HP ships Mandrake, not Red Hat:
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-826283.html
"HP to support Mandrake Linux on desktops
By Matthew Broersma
ZDNet (UK)
January 30, 2002, 11:00 AM PT
France's MandrakeSoft has teamed up with Hewlett-Packard in the open source camp's latest foray into the desktop PC market. The agreement, announced on Tuesday ahead of the LinuxWorld Expo, will see HP build and promote Mandrake Linux-based desktop PCs for European and North American businesses.
Linux is based on an open source license that prevents any one company from owning the software, and competes against Microsoft's dominant Windows operating system, which is kept under tight proprietary control. So far, however, Linux has mainly succeeded in the server market, where ease-of-use is less important than reliability and performance.
The HP deal aims to address some of the problems that have prevented desktop users from adopting Linux, such as the lack of technical support.
Mandrake Linux will be certified on all of HP's business PCs, and will be offered in a premium package that includes telephone, on-site and remote support. MandrakeSoft is to provide technical support for HP's teams, according to the companies. The PCs will also be available without support.
"This alliance is a testament to HP's strong commitment in Linux market," said Eric Rueda, software marketing manager of HP Business Desktops division, in a statement.
Other companies have tried selling Linux on desktops in the past. Dell stopped offering Red Hat Linux on its desktop and notebook PCs last autumn, citing lack of demand, but says there is more potential for the software on servers and workstations."
Why are they using RedHat 7.1? 7.2 is much better. It supports ext3(which irradicates the one problem I had with linux -- file systems could get hurt far too easily by a power failure) and the second-newest KDE(which is a fairly significant step in the right direction regarding eye-candy from the KDE in 7.1)
Sometimes I wonder about these companies............
It's been a long time.
And they'll likely stay that way, remember back a while on /., this story (I sure I remember a more recent and more applicable one shortly after the death of BeOs but I couldn't find it anywhere. Either way HP does not have the option of selling a duel boot machine with linux and windows due to their agreement with M$. Acorrdingly the only way to sell a home machine with linux is to sell it with only linux. I suspect that most users who are good enough to use only linux will probably build their own machines in the first place.
I stole this Sig
Everybody I know that runs Linux at home (and I know quite a few, myself included), had a home built computer. (i.e. they bought the individual components and put them all together themselves) I always do that for my home computers.. not so much to save money anymore (though sometimes you can save a few bucks over a name brand box), but I like to have direct control over everything, and be able to open up the box and upgrade or replace any peice of hardware without worrying about voiding the warranty.
How many linux guys (or girls) buy name brand desktop systems? (Laptops are a different story)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Most likely, this is HP's response to all the large organizations with Windows site-licenses getting double-billed for pre-installed OSes. My employer actually quit buying HP's a couple years ago in favor of a local OEM who would provide computers with no OS. We have a site license for Windows, so we don't want to pay again by getting 100 boxes with Windows already installed. My guess is that the majority of these "linux" boxes being sold by HP will be ghosted to Windows. It's unfortunate, but realistic.
In complete agreement. I am a windows master, and it took me only about 3 months to master the ins and outs of NT.
Now Im learning linux. I suppose it will take just as long as it took to learn DOS + win31 + win95 + winNT. Thats equal, but in truth its about 2 years. Im into my first 8 months on linux I think.
This is what im working on with linux.
1. Get sound to work.
2. Get AGPGart going
3. Get my Geforce functional with OpenGL hardware acceleration
4. Get Wolfenstein working on Linux.
5. understand all the ways in which it can be hosed so I can prevent from loosing any important documents before I make the full switch.
I have a masters in computer engineering and a BS in electrical engineering, I used computers since I was about 7 starting on the TRS-80. Linux is for geeks. It must be dumbed down and I must NEVER see a DOS prompt before this thing is going mainstream. Most of my windows learning happens on the graphic interface level while Linux is all bash level commands...
...cause Linux ain't personal yet. Microsoft already has a monopoly on the desktop; it's not like Linux will be losing marketshare.
With that in mind, it's probably better that Joe Sixpack doesn't get exposed to Linux at this point. Right now, it is likely that he will be turned off to it and hate it. When replaced with WinXP, Linux on the desktop, from a newbie point of view, will look horrible from a usability point of view.
Better to wait until it actually is easy to use without looking at half a dozen HOWTOs before unleashing on the masses.
For example: how does one install a new program on RedHat? Assuming it's an RPM, the user opens a command prompt and *bzzzt!* Linux just lost. On Debian, assuming you have a deb file, the user opens a command prompt and *bzzzt!* Linux just lost again. Are there GUIs for this? Sure. Are they sufficiently easy to use for a newbie (Are they easily accessible from the system menu or an icon)? Not yet.
Sure there's apt and Red Carpet, but those are for specific channels -- mainly Ximian and RedHat. The vast majority of Windows users use programs that are not in the standard Windows install. As such, installing programs on Linux that are not part of a standard distribution seems logical to me and necessary.
Browse to software site and download (or insert CD), double-click on file, and have it installed and ready to run without ever opening a command prompt or needed to read a manual or a HOWTO. You want Joe Sixpack who doesn't "get" computers and has no desire to "get" computers? This is the entrance fee.
After all, how many of you drive a car, but don't know how an engine works (or even what kind of airbag it has)? Knowing how it works should not be a prerequisite to using it.
- I don't need to go outside, my CRT tan'll do me just fine.
http://www.hp.com/workstations/products/linux/x100 0/summary.html
http://www.bstore.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpbs/specshtml.js p?BV_SessionID=@@@@0447546065.1014057243@@@@&BV_En gineID=efadcdgdeeejebengckcfijdii.0&oid=44745
The first is an "HP workstation X1000" and the second is an "HP workstation X1000" The only difference is that the first runs Linux, has half the RAM, and costs $100 more! What a rip!
I wonder if they include the media! Screw HP.
Yup, but I'm not sure that it's such a great deal since the reason for this is them dropping HP-UX.
Everybody repeat with me, there's 1 less version of Unix out there...
and from
I think I'll get the windows version and install debian myself.
I reciently had to buy a machine to let me send e-mail - a PC, WebTV, internet device, whatever - didn't matter, the price was the only important factor. I thought that it would be cheaper to get a PC with Linux, but found that no one really offers it (in my country anyway - Ireland). Dell only offered Linux on their top of the range PCs, and they made it difficult - you had to ring directly them to find out the price - you couldn't order it directly from their web store. In the end the cheapest machine was a Dell PC running Windows Me. I was quite disappointed at the lack of choice and I would say this is the same in a lot of countries, that the average user is forced into buying Windows Me, or Windows XP.
" Unfortunately, checking their website shows that only business machines will have a Linux option; home machines are still WinXP only."
how do you think wintel was able to win the home computer wars in the 80's? its because they pushed it as business office workstations.
You haven't been paying much attention to OEM licensing discussions, have you? Linux Refund Day provided a great object lesson. The per-unit price for Windows is negligible. And that price is already paid whether your unit ships with Windows or not. To avoid the "Microsoft tax", OEMs will have to abandon Windows. And as much as I would like to see OEMs have that option, right now they don't.
"Unfortunately... home machines are WinXP only."
You say this like you actually think that Linux has more than a snowball's chance in sorry Hell to succeed on the desktop.
While you're at it, I have a bridge in New York I want to sell you...
When I saw "HP's picking up the slack" I expected HP to be preinstalling Slackware?
here
...isn't quite ready for a casual user....
unhappy home users? why do we want revolution if MS doesn't make users unhappy?
why do we ALWAYS say that we're 'not quite ready' for prime time after ~how many years?!~ BeOS did it in 2. Apple took BSD core services and rewrote gobs of stuff in relatively no time.
you can't tell me there were more BeOS coders than there are for Linux. yeah, we just need another year. riiiight.
Linux as an OS is a lot like Mozilla--when it happens, it's a day late/dollar short.
let's simply not refer to Linux as a general use desktop OS ever and i won't complain.
HP is in a downward death spiral. They're losing
business everywhere and so now they've turned
to Linux. Gee, this sounds like SGI all over
again: the dying gasp of a dying company betting
a dying horse on a dying operating system.
Heck as a two-year Linux "veteran" ( Yes, I hear that bunch of you laughing, now keep quiet! ;) ) I think I would have a hard time with a standard load from another company. I've gone from RH to Mandrake and now am using Slack as my Linux machine. It would be hard for me to get away from the "roll-your own" mentality...
I suppose the point is that I would have much use for such a machine except that the MS-tax would be absent. I'm not knocking HP, I think they make very nice machines and I applaud their actions.
Is there anything about this particular machine which sets it apart from other Linux loads?
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
Will they automatically create restore partition ?
my sgi machine runs 2k and i *NEVER* had it crash on me
For two days thus far I have been running a nice little distro called Lycoris Desktop/LX, fka Redmond Linux. I have had little need to boot into 98, save for the time when I need to use Cubase, and even then, it was frustrating. On the other hand, It's been pretty smooth sailing here in Linux. The setup and install was flawless and took about 20 minutes, and sound and video work right out of the box. Bottom line: I am not a dummy when it comes to OS crap. I know better than to log in as root to surf the web looking for naughty video, yet on the other hand I am not some Kernel kacker that has been at it for a number of years. Linux IS ready for the Desktop, just try Desktop/LX. http://www.lycoris.com ps please don't blame me for their choice of color scheme!
Someone at the HP booth showed me how at
the Linux World exhibition. Go to
http://bstore.hp.com/ click on Business desktops,
select the 'e-pc 40', and choose customize.
You will have the ability to select Linux (mandrake) and when you do, you will get a
discount of $90.
This is the way it should be. As far as I know, no
other manufacturer has discount from the Windows
tax even if you buy Linux. And for a "business PC",the e-PC models are downright cool - they
are sexy enough and quiet enough to make a nice
home-pc too (much better than the bigger, bulkier
HP consumer PC's).
Thanks, HP for giving us the freedom from the
Windows tax (and while we are expressing
gratitude, thanks for open-sourcing your printer
drivers too - my deskjet kicks ass on Linux
now!)
Wow, what a great story this was, when I submitted it three weeks ago...
Irregardless would mean "not regardless", Ir- being a negational prefix. It's a common grammatical error, although the dictionary will list it as correct "nonstandard" English.
I know that assembling this stuff on your own, you could probably cut the cost at least in half. Look at this quote sheet from hp.com:
A7796A HP workstation X1000 Base SPU with Linux 1 $650.00
A7796A ABA U.S. - English localization 1 $0.00
A7801A 2.0GHz Pentium 4 Processor (478 pin) 1 $750.00
A7801A 0D1 Factory integrated 1 $0.00
A6065A NVIDIA Quadro2 Pro graphics accelerator 1 $700.00
A6065A 0D1 Factory integrated 1 $0.00
A7243A 3 button PS2 mouse (no scroll) 1 $10.00
A7243A 0D1 Factory integrated 1 $0.00
A6060A 36GB 10K SCSI disk for IA32 systems 1 $550.00
A6060A 0D1 Factory integrated 1 $0.00
A7244A SCSI controller card Ultra 160 (PCI) 1 $130.00
A7244A 0D1 Factory integrated 1 $0.00
A7794A 256MB PC133 ECC SDRAM DIMM for X1000 2 $120.00 $240.00
A7794A 0D1 Factory integrated 2 $0.00
A7808A HP 16X max DVD ROM Drive 1 $150.00
A7808A 0D1 Factory integrated 1 $0.00
A7807A HP 16X max CD R/W ROM drive 1 $200.00
A7807A 0D1 Factory integrated 1 $0.00
H4396A No Additional Support 1 $0.00
subtotal $3,380.00
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
On the linux partitions, are they still doing the same crap that they opted to do for XP? Do we not get "recovery" or OS disks, but instead just get a nifty other partition wasting disk space, so they don't have to bother pressing a few more cds?
granted, being shipped with 7.1, i would assume most linux using buyers would be going out and getting their preferred distribution (and the most current one) to use instead..
creativity is the art of concealing your sources
We bought a couple of PowerEdges, and had to get them with Windows even though we wiped the drives and installed Red Hat. The Red Hat version was much more expensive, because they forced you to buy an expensive support agreement (which we did not need) and no refund for Windows because if we wanted Linux why didn't we buy the Linux version? Of course now Dell can show bad sales for Linux boxes which makes the conspiracy theorists at our department wonder...
Lies about crimes
Unlike XP - do you suppose that you actually get the Linux CD's instead of a recovery partition? ;-)
EQ
DOAC
UO
AO
I'd continue with the acronyms, but I'm risking invoking the lameness filter.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
They do the same thing with Windows. Of course, they are unable to help it if a machine gets hosed by adding and removing a few applications.
Whenever they release a new piece of hardware, whether it is the latest and greatest CPU or some other whiz-bang technology this is what they do. Of course, when it comes to launching a new CPU design, they get ahold of reference designs and final run chips several months before they are even announced to the public, as existing, by Intel or AMD.
For instance HP and many of the other major OEMs may already have 2.5 or faster CPUs from Intel in either reference, or final run chips. They have to test those, otherwise they will end up with all sorts of headaches as they rush poorly tested product out to the field.
It is the same way with the smaller OEMs, the only major difference is there is little advance handling of CPUs that are getting ready to hit the market.
--
.sig seperator
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If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
MS simply replaced "per-processor" licenses with "per-model" licenses. They still have the same stranglehold over OEMs though, so if the OEMs get uppity and try to sell a separate model of PCs with no OS, Microsoft can give them the back-of-the-hand treatment and raise their Windows license costs.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
What troubles me is that the box makers are essentially pushing RedHat to be a defacto standard, essentially synonymous with Linux, which it is not. Regardless of how high your regard for RH, there are other distros (key word there!) that are also excellent, including some that might be better suited for a particular environment.
That said, I think it would be better for them to sell the box empty, give you a choice of getting XP,2K,RH,Suse,Debian,Slack,BSD,etc install disks, and further, paying an additional (nominal) fee to have said OS pre-installed. At the least, offer the other distros, and maybe only offer the preinstall option for what they feel are 'prefered' OS's.
Alas, it won't be so. The so called Microsoft Tax amounts to about $100. I was a technical support supervisor for one of the major PC manufacturers, so I had some involvment in cost analysis of the PC's we sold. Our licensing costs on the OS was between $35 and $45 (depending on the version) and Office ran about $45. Why so cheap? Obviously volume plays a significant role, but also Microsoft had no involvment in the manufacturing of the media. We received a "master" set of discs that were in turn shipped to our manufacturer who then made the media that we shipped. Microsoft incurred no costs outside of development.
Another reason that you probably won't see "clean" systems is that most computer manufacturers are seeking to reduce the number of configurations available in order to reduce the cost of building the systems. Before I left my job in the PC manufacturing industry, my company had an exraordinarily broad catalog with substantial overlap between home and business systems, as well as a number of configurations that were rarely selected. That variety costs money...and also leads to mistakes, such as an overly ambitious salesperson who happily bundles a DVD drive, CD drive and CD-RW drive into a desktop system that has two 5.25" bays. But I digress...
The number of systems that customers would order blank is vanishingly small as a percentage of total sales. My company would do it, but only for their "key" customers, organizations that ordered systems by the hundreds. Otherwise, it just wasn't worth it, particularly with the razor-thin margins in the business.
I guess one way of looking at it is that because of the rapacious competition in the industry we're paying extraordinarily low prices for computers today. Sure, the extra $80-$90 that you pay for the OS and application software seems unfair, but on the other hand, the total system price is, quite frankly, a bargain, even with the inclusion of the unwanted OS.
My suggestion (and I'm sure there's no shortage of those similar to it) is that if you want a system with a clean drive, you should build it yourself.
-h-
Even if she writes fully-featured compilers in her spare time?
Finding God in a Dog
I hope they don't preload all kinds of annoying and crappy inhouse software on the Linux boxes like they do for Pavilions. I doubt they preload stuff like that on business machines, which is good. Keep that crap on Windows please.
A client needed some work done on a few of their Linux systems. They allow incoming traffic onto their LAN only through their Intel NetStructure VPN appliance. No problem, "send me the client software" I said, and they did. It was for Windows only!
So I undertook some research. Intel bought their NetStructure line from Shiva some time ago. After a few of their (Intel's) chip customers complained long and hard about competitive issues a la pre-packaged devices such as NetStructure, Intel decided to get out of the appliance biz. Then stopped making the NetStructure VPN appliance. They sold it to HP. Here's Intel's announcement and here's HP's announcement. Here's an IT World story about the same thing. They all tell how Intel's NetStructure 31xx VPN Gateway product line will still be available through HP as the HP VPN Server Appliance SA3xxx series. These are basically old Shiva products - hence their use of SST (Shiva Secure Tunnel) tunnels which are AFAIK unique to these products.
Here's the catch: while these server appliances run Linux (I know I saw that somewhere but I can't remember where) they have no Linux client software! Here's Intel's support page (look for their client software support) and HP's support page - don't have the URL handy but I'm sure of it - contains the same information.
The upshot of all this is that in order to work on Linux systems at a remote location from my local PC, I have to pass through a VPN Gateway which also runs Linux, but I have to use Windows on my end for the VPN client. What a crock! I looked into free/Swan but it doesn't do Shiva Secure Tunnels. Until HP gets serious about this one particular product line and gets some Linux client sotware into the picture, I'm steering clear of anything else they may trumpet as part of their "We do Linux" hype.
This has been discussed earlier already. Get with it.
It makes no sense to say:
- the last step is to load the OS onto the HDD
- to sell it blank you get to skip this step
- skipping the OS load requires less effort, less time, and less testing
- it costs more to manufacture the product without the OS
I just think that's crazy talk.That's never been done before...
Anyone try to find linux from the front page of dells web-site - exactly youd try for a while then give up
Clicked on two workstations on HP site - linux there as an option
Is it REALLY that hard to install your own friggin' linux distribution?
Besides, i'd rather have a choice than only have red hat as an option. Ask them to sell clean hard drives and we'll talk.
In the short term, the success of Linux in the
server market depends on big corporate supporters
like IBM. IBM takes responsibility for any bug
that appears in Linux installed on its servers;
of course, IBM spends thousands of hours in
testing Linux in order to ensure as few bugs as
possible. So, potential customer feel safe in
buying IBM servers running Linux. Now, throw
in HP and Compaq as Linux supporters, and Linux's
success in the server market is assured.
The desktop market is a bit different. Success
depends on the presence of a killer application.
The #1 application that most people run is a
Web client or an ISP client like AOL's client.
If all the ISPs ported their clients to Linux,
then the success of Linux in the desktop market
would be assured. However, even to this day, AOL
still has not produced a Linux version of the AOL client.
In the long term, the success of Linux depends
on Linus gradually relinquishing control over
Linux. Linus has done an excellent in developing
Linux. To his credit, Linux is the first OS to
successfully knock Sun and Sun Solaris from the
#1 position in servers.
However, as Linux develops, it grows too large for
one person to handle. The development of Linux
should be managed by a committee with Linus being
its chairman. The committee would be part of the
GNU organization under the auspices of the Free
Software Foundation. In this way, if anyone
(including Linus) retires from the committee,
the retirement will have little impact on Linux.
Linux will continue into perpetuity.
Being an operating system (OS), Linux is the single
most important piece of software in the free-
software movement (since all other pieces of
software must interact with the OS). Other free
OSes exist, but since Linux has the largest share
of the free-OS market, Linux is the most important
OS. If we (including the ISPs) rally around Linux,
it can attain 50% of the OS market for desktops.
Linux being a dominant OS would be a boon for software-
application developers (and the American software
industry) since developers would know all internal
facets of Linux by virtual of it being a free, open OS.
Applications could be easily upgraded to run on newer
versions of Linux. (The opposite is true for
applications developed for Windows, a notoriously
closed OS.)
If they are running an X server and you're the configurer... what you could do is set up a way to make an sshd run on their machine (not like they'll notice) by a simple click of an icon (and requiring the root passwd) to start the sshd and you logon through SSH (remember there is an option that allows the forwarding of X sessions.) to do remote maitenence. I really wish I had this option being here at college and my family using 9x. It really sucks because I can't just "fix it" and be done with it in a few minutes over having to listen to them whine that "It doesn't work!" and "I dunno what you're talking about; how about I come get you?"
Karma whorin' since 1999
... it was probably an intelligent decision not to offer machines with Linucks [sic, spelling nazis] preinstalled to home users. After all, a great majority of home users (who aren't technology enthusiasts) require nothing more than Windows ME, an installation of Quake 3, and a copy of Office SBE.
This is probably one of the reasons that Dell stopped producing home PCs with Linux: the demand was negligible. Oh, and I'm certain that the technical support for Linux most likely cost them some money.
Do you like German cars?
You won't be the first one to put Linux on a desktop in a corporate environment. Cisco Systems already has an official Linux desktop distro (although they also support Win2k and Solaris/Sun workstations - part of an excellent program to give their employees the tools they need/want). And I was rather shocked to hear that an aerospace contractor in the local area has a Linux desktop deployment (I've always seen Aerospace contractors as ultra-conservative with IT).
I have to wonder how many other corporate environments are quietly implementing Linux. Not in their server room. Not in their product. On the desktop.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
I don't see how that decission makes sense. A business who want to run Linux should have at least one person who can administrate a Linux box, and such a person would most likely want to install a "company standard" Linux distribution on all computers.
On the other hand, a home user may wish to run Linux because he has experience as a Unix user from work or school, but with no desire of doing more administrative work than necessary. For him, a preinstalled Linux would be usefull.
I don't mind installing Linux myself, but I don't like paying Microsoft for any Branded Notebook I buy. Thus I would not mind deinstalling Redhat and installing Debian GNU/Linux afterwords ;)
For those in the UK, you can buy prebuilt systems without an OS from Novatech (www.novatech.co.uk). Buying your PC without Windows (Linux isn't an option) saves you 80 pounds (299 exc. VAT for a Duran 1GHz).
I don't work for them, but I've used them and they're good.
I think that anyone who is savvy enough to buy Linux on a pc, is probably not going to like the default setup. I would see hp being much more successful, if they would do something like Microsoft does w/ their HCL. " These systems are compatible w/ Linux. " Then the end user can install. Face it your average Joe is not going to buy a $2,000 PC just cause it comes w/ Linux on it. ( mabye a powermac g4 ) -P3rlm0nger
They do this - have certified, and tested hardware and include Linux in their OS compatibility tables. That's how I bought an LH4 - they even had a whitepaper on the install. Last time I checked, (about 2 weeks ago) they had all kinds of systems listed, including desktops and servers. I didn't check for laptops though.
Have you looked at any female programmers lately... I mean gee whiz ... "she must have taken a walk thru the ugly forest!!!"
They may not be able to have a social life.
Hack away!!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling