Blu-Ray == fail. Anybody who buys Blu-Ray media will go the way of the schmucks who blew thousands of dollars on Laserdiscs. Every game I've ever bought has either been on cassette tape, 5.25" or 3.5" floppies, downloaded, CD-ROM, or DVD, and every movie I've ever bought has been on VHS tape or DVD. When Blu-Ray drives cost $19.95, can be made by anybody, and the Blu-Ray disc section is bigger than the DVD section, then let's talk.
Nintendo pioneered the miniature joystick as well. The n64 had analog sticks more than a year before the dual shock debuted. Nintendo always innovates, while everyone else takes.
I still remember when Nintendo first started using optical media and everyone else had to stick with those dusty cartridges...
I'm sure if a developer put the effort in a Wii title could be great, after all it is more powerful than the PS2. But they haven't, and the unfortunate cycle has been established... poor 3rd party sales -> poor effort -> poor 3rd party sales -> poor effort. Few publishers are clever enough to look past that.
The problem with selling about as much 3rd party software as Microsoft is that publishers see PC/PS3/360 as a single target given it is easy enough to port between them. The combined install base of the those three targets, combined with the higher attach rates makes it a no-brainer for those with few brains.
But if review scores don't correlate to sales, do they really matter?
They absolutely do correlate to sales. Third party games do poorly in both sales and reviews.
This is also why Nintendo's own titles do well in both sales and reviews, and why I said if you are only interested in Nintendo titles then the Wii is perfect for you.
Even with the Wii's market penetration, the poor attach rate makes it a far better bet for publishers to target PC/PS3/360, which taken together is a much larger market with a much higher attach rate.
It has been great for Nintendo and those who like Nintendo's games. Good for them. That is far less than everyone and certainly doesn't include third party publishers.
These are retailers reporting the numbers. The retailers report how many consoles they've sold and how many of each game they've sold. Divide one by the other and that's the attach rate.
Again, I never said I limit my fun. I do play-doh and Candyland with the kids. I don't need to spend $250+ for another kid friendly activity. We also try to make most of our interaction creative and/or educational.
Then they go to bed and we pull out Scrabble, Monopoly, and Cribbage.
I only have so many hours in the day, especially now that I have kids. That is the limit on my fun. When I do have time I go with my preferences, which happen to find other things more "fun".
My 4 year old can also beat me in a game of Chutes and Ladders and Candyland. She also finds Tic-Tac-Toe quite engaging despite the fact she mathematically cannot win.
When she goes to bed, Scrabble, Monopoly, Chess, Cribbage, and Go still come out.
I prefer games that are deeper than a four year old can understand. And as for dexterity... most also have trouble keeping food on their fork. The fact that a four year old can beat anyone at Mario Kart means it doesn't require a whole lot of dexterity or thought.
Now, this isn't necessarily bad. Neither does beer pong. It simply isn't my preference.
The fact is, the Wii generates lots of overall game sales, but its tie ratio is relatively low because it moves so much hardware. That makes it an attractive system for publishers.
But less attractive than the PC/360/PS3 which, during development, can be looked at much as a unified platform.
So a publisher can either design for the Wii or design for the much larger PC/360/PS3 base.
So... a reason for NOT liking the Wii would be "my kids like the Wii"?
Is it just me, or is that type of reasoning completely insane?
Errrr, no. I never actually even said I didn't like the Wii. I said it is not an activity I would pursue on my own. I actually like play-doh and coloring with my kids. I just wouldn't spend $250 plus a zillion dollars for peripherals on a toddler's toy.
My statement was a response to the original poster, whose point was something along the lines of "The Wii is so great it is simple enough for toddlers." My point was "Things that are simple enough for toddlers generally don't appeal to me on their own. That the Wii is simple is no more a plus than for play-doh or coloring books."
I guess you could flip the flamebait around and ask do PS3 and XBOX360 provide watered-down game experiences for offering games that depend on pretty graphics and not enjoyable gameplay.
Or you could look at the ratings for the games on all three consoles and realize the Wii's are the lowest.
Worst graphics and worst lineup? Who could resist?
My mother owns a wii. My father owns a wii. My sister owns a wii. My brother owns a Wii. My cousin owns a Wii. My 3 years old nephew uses a Wii. My grandparents have played on a Wii. Nursing homes have Wiis.
And the question the publishers are asking themselves is "Is your Mother/Father/Sister/Brother/Cousin/Nursing home" going to buy my games.
Whether this is a self-fulfilling prophecy is irrelevant. Third parties release poor games on the Wii because third party games don't sell well on the Wii because third parties release poor games on the Wii. The result is still the same: Poor third party products and support for the Wii.
Two years ago all we heard was how the PS3 was doomed to this publisher death spiral. It appears the Wii has entered it instead.
If you are comfortable only playing Nintendo's releases this isn't a problem for you. If you are interested in a broader selection then you should probably look elsewhere.
And near-zero learning curve (my 2-year-old can play it and my 4-year-old can play it pretty well).
Being simple enough for toddlers and pre-schoolers isn't really a plus in my book. I play with my two and four year old because they like it when Daddy does play-doh and coloring and watches Little Einsteins with them. These aren't activities I would choose to do on my own.
Nintendo has RPGs, platformers, puzzle games, shooters, racers, sports games, adventure games, and more -- and they have good games of all those types.
To name a few on the PS3 (I'm sure the 360 has its own).
PS3 RPGS: Valkyria Chronicles, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Enchanted Arms.
PS3 Puzzle games: flOw, Echochrome, LocoRoco.
PS3 Adventure games: Wii has one 9.0 game, Zack and Wiki. PS3 has one 9.0 game, Folklore.
PS3 Platformer: Yes, this is Nintendo's forte. And for someone solely into that, I would recommend a Wii.
I'm glad you enjoy your Wii, good for you. But saying there's not a hint of a contest when you are apparently completely unfamiliar with the contesting lineup is simply disingenuous.
Considering that Nintendo has been consistently outselling everyone else by big margins, maybe the ratings aren't that valid?
Nintendo's releases certainly have sold well, and are very highly rated. Other games on the Wii, not so much.
So this would kind of put the lie to "they are poorly rated but sell well because reviewers just don't understand." Nope, the poorly rated games sell poorly. The highly rated games sell, errr, highly. And these highly rated games are few, and primarily from Nintendo.
My point remains: "Reggie, get the overall quality of your system together." I could be wrong, but I don't think the myth of "The Wii is where all the fun games are." is going to last much longer. And consumers may be figuring it out, as Wii sales dropped 52% from April 2008 to April 2009., which even in the face of recession is substantially worse than PS3 (32%) or Xbox (10%).
Given that the Wii has the lowest rated selection among the three consoles, perhaps Reg should be asking "Is it fun?" more about his own games, rather than the competition.
Slashdot Mirror
Blu-Ray == fail. Anybody who buys Blu-Ray media will go the way of the schmucks who blew thousands of dollars on Laserdiscs. Every game I've ever bought has either been on cassette tape, 5.25" or 3.5" floppies, downloaded, CD-ROM, or DVD, and every movie I've ever bought has been on VHS tape or DVD. When Blu-Ray drives cost $19.95, can be made by anybody, and the Blu-Ray disc section is bigger than the DVD section, then let's talk.
BluRay is penetrating at double the rate DVD did.
So.... how's that HD-DVD player working out for you?
Nintendo pioneered the miniature joystick as well. The n64 had analog sticks more than a year before the dual shock debuted. Nintendo always innovates, while everyone else takes.
I still remember when Nintendo first started using optical media and everyone else had to stick with those dusty cartridges...
I'm sure if a developer put the effort in a Wii title could be great, after all it is more powerful than the PS2. But they haven't, and the unfortunate cycle has been established... poor 3rd party sales -> poor effort -> poor 3rd party sales -> poor effort. Few publishers are clever enough to look past that.
The problem with selling about as much 3rd party software as Microsoft is that publishers see PC/PS3/360 as a single target given it is easy enough to port between them. The combined install base of the those three targets, combined with the higher attach rates makes it a no-brainer for those with few brains.
The ratings for third party agree with the sales for third party: poor.
If you like Nintendo stuff, great, stick with the Wii. If you want something else... not so much.
But if review scores don't correlate to sales, do they really matter?
They absolutely do correlate to sales. Third party games do poorly in both sales and reviews.
This is also why Nintendo's own titles do well in both sales and reviews, and why I said if you are only interested in Nintendo titles then the Wii is perfect for you.
Even with the Wii's market penetration, the poor attach rate makes it a far better bet for publishers to target PC/PS3/360, which taken together is a much larger market with a much higher attach rate.
It has been great for Nintendo and those who like Nintendo's games. Good for them. That is far less than everyone and certainly doesn't include third party publishers.
The entire discussion was centered around our small children. The comment was in relation to the subject at hand.
These are retailers reporting the numbers. The retailers report how many consoles they've sold and how many of each game they've sold. Divide one by the other and that's the attach rate.
Actual consumers are never questioned.
Again, I never said I limit my fun. I do play-doh and Candyland with the kids. I don't need to spend $250+ for another kid friendly activity. We also try to make most of our interaction creative and/or educational.
Then they go to bed and we pull out Scrabble, Monopoly, and Cribbage.
I only have so many hours in the day, especially now that I have kids. That is the limit on my fun. When I do have time I go with my preferences, which happen to find other things more "fun".
My 4 year old can also beat me in a game of Chutes and Ladders and Candyland. She also finds Tic-Tac-Toe quite engaging despite the fact she mathematically cannot win.
When she goes to bed, Scrabble, Monopoly, Chess, Cribbage, and Go still come out.
I prefer games that are deeper than a four year old can understand. And as for dexterity... most also have trouble keeping food on their fork. The fact that a four year old can beat anyone at Mario Kart means it doesn't require a whole lot of dexterity or thought.
Now, this isn't necessarily bad. Neither does beer pong. It simply isn't my preference.
So from what I can tell, judging by the number of releases, developers have chosen the Wii.
Quantity != quality. It is far easier to make a mini-game shovelware than a AAA title. Reviews reflect this.
The fact is, the Wii generates lots of overall game sales, but its tie ratio is relatively low because it moves so much hardware. That makes it an attractive system for publishers.
But less attractive than the PC/360/PS3 which, during development, can be looked at much as a unified platform.
So a publisher can either design for the Wii or design for the much larger PC/360/PS3 base.
It is clear what most have chosen.
The Wii is not hard, so I will not play with it. I play games so I can pwn noobs and show off. My mate is impressed by me blowing up punks in TF2.
Why is it the people rabidly defending the Wii sound so much like those who were rabidly dismissing it two years ago?
have you even seen Project Natal for teh 360 yet. It makes the Wii look like playing with paper dolls.
No, I haven't! Which retailer can I pick it up at?!!!
Also, the grapes on the PS3 and 360 are particularly sour as well.
So... a reason for NOT liking the Wii would be "my kids like the Wii"? Is it just me, or is that type of reasoning completely insane?
Errrr, no. I never actually even said I didn't like the Wii. I said it is not an activity I would pursue on my own. I actually like play-doh and coloring with my kids. I just wouldn't spend $250 plus a zillion dollars for peripherals on a toddler's toy.
My statement was a response to the original poster, whose point was something along the lines of "The Wii is so great it is simple enough for toddlers." My point was "Things that are simple enough for toddlers generally don't appeal to me on their own. That the Wii is simple is no more a plus than for play-doh or coloring books."
I guess you could flip the flamebait around and ask do PS3 and XBOX360 provide watered-down game experiences for offering games that depend on pretty graphics and not enjoyable gameplay.
Or you could look at the ratings for the games on all three consoles and realize the Wii's are the lowest.
Worst graphics and worst lineup? Who could resist?
My mother owns a wii. My father owns a wii. My sister owns a wii. My brother owns a Wii. My cousin owns a Wii. My 3 years old nephew uses a Wii. My grandparents have played on a Wii. Nursing homes have Wiis.
And the question the publishers are asking themselves is "Is your Mother/Father/Sister/Brother/Cousin/Nursing home" going to buy my games.
From attach rates the answer is generally no.
Whether this is a self-fulfilling prophecy is irrelevant. Third parties release poor games on the Wii because third party games don't sell well on the Wii because third parties release poor games on the Wii. The result is still the same: Poor third party products and support for the Wii.
Two years ago all we heard was how the PS3 was doomed to this publisher death spiral. It appears the Wii has entered it instead.
If you are comfortable only playing Nintendo's releases this isn't a problem for you. If you are interested in a broader selection then you should probably look elsewhere.
I own a Wii and rarely use it...But I enjoyed it and it was affordable.
Classic example.
And near-zero learning curve (my 2-year-old can play it and my 4-year-old can play it pretty well).
Being simple enough for toddlers and pre-schoolers isn't really a plus in my book. I play with my two and four year old because they like it when Daddy does play-doh and coloring and watches Little Einsteins with them. These aren't activities I would choose to do on my own.
I place the Wii in the same category.
Wii's are fun.
Perhaps. And yet, given they have they have the lowest rated selection of all three consoles, they are less fun than both the PS3 and the 360.
Whoops, I forgot LittleBigPlanet for platformer.
My bad. There's so many games to keep track of nowadays...
Nintendo has RPGs, platformers, puzzle games, shooters, racers, sports games, adventure games, and more -- and they have good games of all those types.
To name a few on the PS3 (I'm sure the 360 has its own).
PS3 RPGS: Valkyria Chronicles, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Enchanted Arms.
PS3 Puzzle games: flOw, Echochrome, LocoRoco.
PS3 Adventure games: Wii has one 9.0 game, Zack and Wiki. PS3 has one 9.0 game, Folklore.
PS3 Platformer: Yes, this is Nintendo's forte. And for someone solely into that, I would recommend a Wii.
I'm glad you enjoy your Wii, good for you. But saying there's not a hint of a contest when you are apparently completely unfamiliar with the contesting lineup is simply disingenuous.
Again, have you seen the actual promotional demos showing it in use in actual games rather than just the tech demos? Have a look here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oACt9R9z37U
"Product vision: Actual features and functionality may vary."
Though I must admit, this video does also demonstrate that Natal is psychic as well, since the dinosaur at about 1:20 starts moving AHEAD of the kid.
Considering that Nintendo has been consistently outselling everyone else by big margins, maybe the ratings aren't that valid?
Nintendo's releases certainly have sold well, and are very highly rated. Other games on the Wii, not so much.
So this would kind of put the lie to "they are poorly rated but sell well because reviewers just don't understand." Nope, the poorly rated games sell poorly. The highly rated games sell, errr, highly. And these highly rated games are few, and primarily from Nintendo.
My point remains: "Reggie, get the overall quality of your system together." I could be wrong, but I don't think the myth of "The Wii is where all the fun games are." is going to last much longer. And consumers may be figuring it out, as Wii sales dropped 52% from April 2008 to April 2009., which even in the face of recession is substantially worse than PS3 (32%) or Xbox (10%).
Given that the Wii has the lowest rated selection among the three consoles, perhaps Reg should be asking "Is it fun?" more about his own games, rather than the competition.