Clean separation? No duplication? In UNIX?!? What are you smoking?
GNOME, KDE, fvwm, icewm, *wm, etc. The hundreds of Linux distros. There's a HUGE amount of duplication in UNIX! Every third open-source kid thinks its his right, nay, his imperative to duplicate something out there!
Formal and definite layers? Bwahhahahahhahha! You're lucky if UNIX apps document their command-line arguments.
What happened to responsible vulnerability reporting? Advertising the existence of a hole and its rough attributes is one thing. But describing exactly how to exploit the hole -- before giving the vendor a chance to fix it -- is just irresponsible, and may hurt users.
I worked in NT Networking for several years, on the H.323 support (for voice and video conferencing) in Windows 2000, and also on SIP. I had the pleasure of working directly with Peter Ford.
He's a first-rate architect. He's one of those people who understands more than just the protocols he's dealing with at the time -- he gets the reason those protocols came into existence, what drives them, who wants to use them, how they fit with othe protocols, etc.
Peter has been pushing for SIP inside Microsoft for a long time. I was part of the design process for a couple of years, and it was a real pleasure to work with so many excellent engineers and thinkers. There is a real desire to make interoperable, public network products at Microsoft -- don't laugh, it's true. We spent YEARS making H.323 work (which is a public protocol -- anyone can implement it), but it didn't matter because, in the end, H.323 sucked. Even the Windows Messenger guys want to move to SIP, because it solves a lot of headaches for them.
The best thing about SIP is that it is fairly decentralized. It's exactly as decentralized as DNS+SMTP. If you have a domain, you can publish your SIP service records, and you can handle your own communications any way you want to (similar to SMTP). This is in contrast to the way that all of the current IM protocols work -- extremely centralized, where all of your messages go to a server, that just re-sends them to the other person.
I don't know anything about XMPP. If it's a good protocol -- awesome. But whether it's XMPP or SIP, or whatever -- it's gotta happen. Instant messaging (and other similar services) need to be decentralized, standard, and open. And for once, the people inside Microsoft agree, and are actively working on it.
I just hope they can convince the upper management layer.
Will someone tell me how the hell people come up with stupid, meaningless figures like "50%", when applied to something as complex as human memory?
It's not like we have some sort of empty/full meter. Human memory is intricately structured, unreliable, amazing, and far beyond the ability of a SINGLE NUMBER to describe!
Soooooooo... it "makes us stronger!" when it happens to GNU/Linux/whatever code, but when it happens to Windows/Microsoft code, they're stabbing us in the eye...?
This virus does not exploit any OS weakness. It exploits STUPID FUCKING USERS. The same STUPID FUCKING USERS would download an SSH patch from a random goatse.cx web server if someone on Slashdot told them to, as witnessed by last week's SSH hole.
All you assholes snickering about yet another Microsoft hole should take a good look in the mirror.
So, Microsoft submits C#, the CLR, and the System.* assemblies to the ECMA standardizations process. (Far, far more than Sun has EVER done with Java.)
And Slashdot has any reason to complain? Boo fucking hoo that Microsoft didn't submit EVERY LINE OF CODE THEY HAVE EVER WRITTEN to ECMA.
The attitude of the original poster is that of a whiner. Microsoft gives you something for basically free (a decent spec for a decent language/runtime), and you WHINE that they didn't give you more.
* No embedded video/audio controls in web pages * No PDFs, except save-as-then-open * No Word/Excel/OpenOffice/whatever documents seamlessly embedded in web pages * No NOTHIN'.
What will they attack next -- the ability to launch Java applets in browsers???
> As to web sites they *appear* to count each > web site affected. So a single linux breakin > on a big hosting site scores 10,000 while > nobody hosts 10,000 sites on a windows box.
So, how does this mitigate the damage? If someone cracks a Linux box hosting 10,000 web sites -- well, then 10,000 web sites have now been compromised. The impact is just as significant.
You've got to be kidding me. Windows 2000 and Windows XP have some of the best Asian-language support on the PLANET.
How much of Linux/FreeBSD supports Unicode? Very, VERY little. Even the FIRST versions of NT supported Unicode in EVERY aspect of the system -- file naming, font rendering, etc. Windows 2000 and XP have support for Asian IMEs, right-to-left languages (like Arabic), etc. Far, far ahead of any of the free *nixes. Only MacOS compares.
Companies have been buying their way into schools for a long, long time. When Apple did it, it was considered philanthropy. When Sun did it, it was considered cool. When Microsoft does it,/. whines about Bill roasting babies over barbecue pits.
Big, fat deal. Universities have a responsibility to 1) teach the science of computing, and 2) teach the real world of computer engineering. Whether YOU like it or not that Microsoft has a prominent role in the real world, universities have a responsibility to equip their students for the real world.
Universities have a responsibility to prepare students to use, choose, and extend the hardware and software technologies that exist. They must educate people about the qualities (good and bad) about existing designs and implementations, so that the students can make good decisions, and understand what is going on.
Linux is NOT always the best solution, although these days it is almost always at least a *good* solution. Microsoft is NOT always a bad choice. Universities MUST teach people to make decisions themselves, and not to blindly accept a position. It doesn't matter if the position is "[Linux|Microsoft|Cheese] is pure [evil|delight|cheddar]!" or whatever.
UNIX license holders have long enforced their view of the world at universities. As a professional software developer, I had to watch many UNIX weenies un-weenify after they left college, in order to get some real-world perspective. Yes, UNIX/Linux has its virtues. It also has its problems. Learning how to honestly evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of a design/product/whatever is part of GROWING UP. Microsoft finally has some technology that is at least usable in a real university CS program -- namely NT. I'm GLAD that universities are finally beginning to teach UNIX and NT, not as something holy and pure, but as real-world instances of the ideas that they teach.
Also, one final note -- UNIVERSITIES NEED MONEY/EQUIPMENT/ETC. It's a GOOD THING if Microsoft gives millions in hardware, etc. to universities. Sure, there may be strings attached, and this should always be scrutinized. But there are always strings attached when someone donates a one and six zeroes to a university. This is just how universities work.
Um, excuse me, but since when is the Windows Registry not documented? Have you ever actually opened the Win32 SDK? There's more and better documentation for the Registry than there are for most UNIX apps.
RTFM before you flame it.
Java has lost the lead on managed lang. evolution
on
Preview of Java 1.5
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
This is firm proof that Java has lost the lead on the evolution of managed languages..Net / CLI has surged ahead, both in terms of the expressiveness of its intermediate language (MSIL can express ALL of the C++ semantics, including all unsafe operations), and in terms of the usability and expressiveness of its primary managed language -- C#.
Java is now in the position of copying features from C#. I'm sure Sun will very carefully cull any mention of C# from its press releases, and will position all of these "new" features as their own "innovations", when they've been present in many other languages (not just C#) for years.
Java is dying. It is no longer the premier managed language / environment, and the performance of even the best Java VMs/JIT compilers and runtime libraries is demonstrably inferior to Microsoft's.Net framework / CLI.
I, for one, think this is HILARIOUS.
The only thing that remains, is for Microsoft to integrate its prototype generics support into the mainline C# release. And I'm sure we'll see that quite soon, considering how strong the interest has been in the Cambridge research division's Rotor-based prototype of C# generics.
Take a look at this player (Mambo-X)
on
Neuros Review
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Aside from the radio features, this player looks way over-priced. I just bought a Mambo X for my girlfriend, and so far she and I have been really happy with it. In a nutshell, $200 gets you 20G, USB mass-storage interface (no need to use a sync manager -- you just have direct access to the drive), MP3 and WMA support (and yes, the vendor has committed to supporting Ogg Vorbis), audio record, and Li ion battery.
It isn't glorious or beautiful (iPods certainly are cute), but it works really well, is fast, CHEAP, high-capacity, and really light.
And, no, I'm not associated with the company in any way. But if you are already looking at the Neuros, you should be aware that there are products that cost half as much, and have 95% of the features. (The radio thing is neat, but we don't care -- headphones are the only thing that will be plugged into it.)
Did you completely fail to notice JScript.Net? JScript.Net is not statically typed, and does support "eval", and something quite close to closures.
The.Net Framework provides a consistent environment for code to execute in. On top of that, you can build whatever you want. Obviously, imperative languages map most directly to the Framework, but you can use it to do whatever you want. Such as implementing dynamically-typed languages, functional languages, etc.
C++ is not a second-class citizen under.Net. In fact, Managed C++ is one of the best-supported languages. Managed C++ can be used to generate, or access, nearly every aspect of the Common Language Infrastructure / Common Type System.
It is, arguably, the most expressive language in.Net, because it can generate/access all managed language features, as well as still having full support for all unmanaged features -- normal C++ classes (malloc/free/new/delete semantics), templates, etc. Managed C++ is designed to be the ultimate bridge language, between the existing world of unmanaged C/C++ and managed.Net classes.
Now, in some ways, that's not necessarily a good thing. C# restricts you from doing some stupid things, or at least you must knowingly enable unsafe operations (using the/UNSAFE command line argument, and then you STILL have to use the "unsafe" keyword in source code). But, still, Managed C++ gives you an amazing degree of interoperability with both worlds, and it's seamless.
I've probably missed something since my XP use so far has been limited to about 5 minutes (and I'm quite proud of it;)) and I'm not any more familiar with OS X either but I do know for a fact that KDE/GNOME aren't just copies of either.
Sooooo... in other words, you are ignorant, and you are PROUD of being ignorant. Although I do agree that KDE/GNOME/etc. are (of course) not just copies of Windows/Mac/etc., you can hardly base an argument on bragging about NOT knowing what you are talking about.
You are intentionally distorting the question. The original poster had a very real objection -- that nearly all UIs that run on Linux are stagnant.
Yes, of course "Linux" really refers to the kernel. Duh. But the reality is that people use "Linux" to refer to complete Linux distributions, including the user interface.
As soon as there is an open source UI that doesn't suck monkey butts. And, no, a heavily-photoshopped UI is NOT (necessarily) a good UI.
Like it or not, OS X and XP both have a strong focus on usability -- letting people get something done, rather than dorking around with yet another skin/scheme package. Looking cool, and being usable are two completely different things.
For example, Microsoft has always required that all or nearly all functionality in Windows, and in all of their apps, be accessible using keyboard, as well as a mouse. There are well-defined means to open context menus, tab around, etc. Every version of Mac OS (including OS X) has really, really sucked when it comes to keyboard input -- they just don't care that some people like to use keyboards, can work FASTER using keyboards, or may have disabilities that make it very difficult for them to use a mouse.
The same applies to nearly every open source GUI. Usability, and its twin sister, standardization, are just NOT goals of open-source UIs. Why? Because everyone can customize open source interfaces, everyone DOES, and no one feels any need to establish standards, or to make life easy for people who don't want to learn how to edit an.Xdefaults file, just to get some Real Work done.
When it comes to usability, Apple and Microsoft are miles ahead of their competition -- including all open-source OSes and nearly all proprietary OSes, too.
Slashdot Mirror
You don't need to subscribe to MSDN. http://msdn.microsoft.com/. The ENTIRE thing is there. Or do you just want to pretend it doesn't exist?
Clean separation? No duplication? In UNIX?!? What are you smoking?
GNOME, KDE, fvwm, icewm, *wm, etc. The hundreds of Linux distros. There's a HUGE amount of duplication in UNIX! Every third open-source kid thinks its his right, nay, his imperative to duplicate something out there!
Formal and definite layers? Bwahhahahahhahha! You're lucky if UNIX apps document their command-line arguments.
Awwwwww, poor baby. You can no longer steal someone's software -- and that makes it all bad!
Whiner. If you bought it, activating it is no problem.
What happened to responsible vulnerability reporting? Advertising the existence of a hole and its rough attributes is one thing. But describing exactly how to exploit the hole -- before giving the vendor a chance to fix it -- is just irresponsible, and may hurt users.
He's a first-rate architect. He's one of those people who understands more than just the protocols he's dealing with at the time -- he gets the reason those protocols came into existence, what drives them, who wants to use them, how they fit with othe protocols, etc.
Peter has been pushing for SIP inside Microsoft for a long time. I was part of the design process for a couple of years, and it was a real pleasure to work with so many excellent engineers and thinkers. There is a real desire to make interoperable, public network products at Microsoft -- don't laugh, it's true. We spent YEARS making H.323 work (which is a public protocol -- anyone can implement it), but it didn't matter because, in the end, H.323 sucked. Even the Windows Messenger guys want to move to SIP, because it solves a lot of headaches for them.
The best thing about SIP is that it is fairly decentralized. It's exactly as decentralized as DNS+SMTP. If you have a domain, you can publish your SIP service records, and you can handle your own communications any way you want to (similar to SMTP). This is in contrast to the way that all of the current IM protocols work -- extremely centralized, where all of your messages go to a server, that just re-sends them to the other person.
I don't know anything about XMPP. If it's a good protocol -- awesome. But whether it's XMPP or SIP, or whatever -- it's gotta happen. Instant messaging (and other similar services) need to be decentralized, standard, and open. And for once, the people inside Microsoft agree, and are actively working on it.
I just hope they can convince the upper management layer.
Will someone tell me how the hell people come up with stupid, meaningless figures like "50%", when applied to something as complex as human memory?
It's not like we have some sort of empty/full meter. Human memory is intricately structured, unreliable, amazing, and far beyond the ability of a SINGLE NUMBER to describe!
Lies, damn lies, and SLASHDOT ARTICLES!
Soooooooo... it "makes us stronger!" when it happens to GNU/Linux/whatever code, but when it happens to Windows/Microsoft code, they're stabbing us in the eye...?
What bullshit.
This virus does not exploit any OS weakness. It exploits STUPID FUCKING USERS. The same STUPID FUCKING USERS would download an SSH patch from a random goatse.cx web server if someone on Slashdot told them to, as witnessed by last week's SSH hole.
All you assholes snickering about yet another Microsoft hole should take a good look in the mirror.
So, Microsoft submits C#, the CLR, and the System.* assemblies to the ECMA standardizations process. (Far, far more than Sun has EVER done with Java.)
And Slashdot has any reason to complain? Boo fucking hoo that Microsoft didn't submit EVERY LINE OF CODE THEY HAVE EVER WRITTEN to ECMA.
The attitude of the original poster is that of a whiner. Microsoft gives you something for basically free (a decent spec for a decent language/runtime), and you WHINE that they didn't give you more.
Boo fucking hoo. Grow up.
This is FAR more than just Flash:
* No embedded video/audio controls in web pages
* No PDFs, except save-as-then-open
* No Word/Excel/OpenOffice/whatever documents seamlessly embedded in web pages
* No NOTHIN'.
What will they attack next -- the ability to launch Java applets in browsers???
Eolas is PURE EVIL. DIE, Eolas, DIE.
Screw UC. Ever use HotJava, circa 1993/1994? Exact same user experience. How is that NOT prior art? Gahhhhh, I can't believe this is happening.
> As to web sites they *appear* to count each
> web site affected. So a single linux breakin
> on a big hosting site scores 10,000 while
> nobody hosts 10,000 sites on a windows box.
So, how does this mitigate the damage? If someone cracks a Linux box hosting 10,000 web sites -- well, then 10,000 web sites have now been compromised. The impact is just as significant.
You've got to be kidding me. Windows 2000 and Windows XP have some of the best Asian-language support on the PLANET. How much of Linux/FreeBSD supports Unicode? Very, VERY little. Even the FIRST versions of NT supported Unicode in EVERY aspect of the system -- file naming, font rendering, etc. Windows 2000 and XP have support for Asian IMEs, right-to-left languages (like Arabic), etc. Far, far ahead of any of the free *nixes. Only MacOS compares.
Microsoft might lose, what, $20 in revenue? Piracy is so bad in Asia, it's a wonder anyone can sell any legit software there, at all.
Companies have been buying their way into schools for a long, long time. When Apple did it, it was considered philanthropy. When Sun did it, it was considered cool. When Microsoft does it, /. whines about Bill roasting babies over barbecue pits.
Big, fat deal. Universities have a responsibility to 1) teach the science of computing, and 2) teach the real world of computer engineering. Whether YOU like it or not that Microsoft has a prominent role in the real world, universities have a responsibility to equip their students for the real world.
Universities have a responsibility to prepare students to use, choose, and extend the hardware and software technologies that exist. They must educate people about the qualities (good and bad) about existing designs and implementations, so that the students can make good decisions, and understand what is going on.
Linux is NOT always the best solution, although these days it is almost always at least a *good* solution. Microsoft is NOT always a bad choice. Universities MUST teach people to make decisions themselves, and not to blindly accept a position. It doesn't matter if the position is "[Linux|Microsoft|Cheese] is pure [evil|delight|cheddar]!" or whatever.
UNIX license holders have long enforced their view of the world at universities. As a professional software developer, I had to watch many UNIX weenies un-weenify after they left college, in order to get some real-world perspective. Yes, UNIX/Linux has its virtues. It also has its problems. Learning how to honestly evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of a design/product/whatever is part of GROWING UP. Microsoft finally has some technology that is at least usable in a real university CS program -- namely NT. I'm GLAD that universities are finally beginning to teach UNIX and NT, not as something holy and pure, but as real-world instances of the ideas that they teach.
Also, one final note -- UNIVERSITIES NEED MONEY/EQUIPMENT/ETC. It's a GOOD THING if Microsoft gives millions in hardware, etc. to universities. Sure, there may be strings attached, and this should always be scrutinized. But there are always strings attached when someone donates a one and six zeroes to a university. This is just how universities work.
Um, excuse me, but since when is the Windows Registry not documented? Have you ever actually opened the Win32 SDK? There's more and better documentation for the Registry than there are for most UNIX apps.
RTFM before you flame it.
This is firm proof that Java has lost the lead on the evolution of managed languages. .Net / CLI has surged ahead, both in terms of the expressiveness of its intermediate language (MSIL can express ALL of the C++ semantics, including all unsafe operations), and in terms of the usability and expressiveness of its primary managed language -- C#.
Java is now in the position of copying features from C#. I'm sure Sun will very carefully cull any mention of C# from its press releases, and will position all of these "new" features as their own "innovations", when they've been present in many other languages (not just C#) for years.
Java is dying. It is no longer the premier managed language / environment, and the performance of even the best Java VMs/JIT compilers and runtime libraries is demonstrably inferior to Microsoft's .Net framework / CLI.
I, for one, think this is HILARIOUS.
The only thing that remains, is for Microsoft to integrate its prototype generics support into the mainline C# release. And I'm sure we'll see that quite soon, considering how strong the interest has been in the Cambridge research division's Rotor-based prototype of C# generics.
Aside from the radio features, this player looks way over-priced. I just bought a Mambo X for my girlfriend, and so far she and I have been really happy with it. In a nutshell, $200 gets you 20G, USB mass-storage interface (no need to use a sync manager -- you just have direct access to the drive), MP3 and WMA support (and yes, the vendor has committed to supporting Ogg Vorbis), audio record, and Li ion battery.
It isn't glorious or beautiful (iPods certainly are cute), but it works really well, is fast, CHEAP, high-capacity, and really light.
And, no, I'm not associated with the company in any way. But if you are already looking at the Neuros, you should be aware that there are products that cost half as much, and have 95% of the features. (The radio thing is neat, but we don't care -- headphones are the only thing that will be plugged into it.)
So you're blaming Microsoft because Namibia has outdated hardware? What should Microsoft do -- donate DOS 3.3 and Windows 3.1?
Did you completely fail to notice JScript.Net? JScript.Net is not statically typed, and does support "eval", and something quite close to closures.
.Net Framework provides a consistent environment for code to execute in. On top of that, you can build whatever you want. Obviously, imperative languages map most directly to the Framework, but you can use it to do whatever you want. Such as implementing dynamically-typed languages, functional languages, etc.
The
C++ is not a second-class citizen under .Net. In fact, Managed C++ is one of the best-supported languages. Managed C++ can be used to generate, or access, nearly every aspect of the Common Language Infrastructure / Common Type System.
.Net, because it can generate/access all managed language features, as well as still having full support for all unmanaged features -- normal C++ classes (malloc/free/new/delete semantics), templates, etc. Managed C++ is designed to be the ultimate bridge language, between the existing world of unmanaged C/C++ and managed .Net classes.
/UNSAFE command line argument, and then you STILL have to use the "unsafe" keyword in source code). But, still, Managed C++ gives you an amazing degree of interoperability with both worlds, and it's seamless.
It is, arguably, the most expressive language in
Now, in some ways, that's not necessarily a good thing. C# restricts you from doing some stupid things, or at least you must knowingly enable unsafe operations (using the
And how is this any different from Java, or half a dozen other common languages?
This is just anti-Microsoft rhetoric. All of this is a known aspect of language design. It isn't a bug.
Sooooo... in other words, you are ignorant, and you are PROUD of being ignorant. Although I do agree that KDE/GNOME/etc. are (of course) not just copies of Windows/Mac/etc., you can hardly base an argument on bragging about NOT knowing what you are talking about.
You are intentionally distorting the question. The original poster had a very real objection -- that nearly all UIs that run on Linux are stagnant.
Yes, of course "Linux" really refers to the kernel. Duh. But the reality is that people use "Linux" to refer to complete Linux distributions, including the user interface.
It is a valid point. You are the troll.
As soon as there is an open source UI that doesn't suck monkey butts. And, no, a heavily-photoshopped UI is NOT (necessarily) a good UI.
.Xdefaults file, just to get some Real Work done.
Like it or not, OS X and XP both have a strong focus on usability -- letting people get something done, rather than dorking around with yet another skin/scheme package. Looking cool, and being usable are two completely different things.
For example, Microsoft has always required that all or nearly all functionality in Windows, and in all of their apps, be accessible using keyboard, as well as a mouse. There are well-defined means to open context menus, tab around, etc. Every version of Mac OS (including OS X) has really, really sucked when it comes to keyboard input -- they just don't care that some people like to use keyboards, can work FASTER using keyboards, or may have disabilities that make it very difficult for them to use a mouse.
The same applies to nearly every open source GUI. Usability, and its twin sister, standardization, are just NOT goals of open-source UIs. Why? Because everyone can customize open source interfaces, everyone DOES, and no one feels any need to establish standards, or to make life easy for people who don't want to learn how to edit an
When it comes to usability, Apple and Microsoft are miles ahead of their competition -- including all open-source OSes and nearly all proprietary OSes, too.