Re:A card is more than just a magnetic strip...
on
The Universal Card
·
· Score: 1
Nice, good info. Just know, I was never trying to challenge your knowedge, and sorry for calling you a nut.:-)
Do you think that if someone just happened to have a working universal type card today, maybe not on the CC companies radar yet just for arguments sake, that they would find opertunities for using that card grow steadily or shrink steadily in the next year or so?
It seems to me like that the ustin, Texas establishments of all types went from probably 30% self swipe to 80% self swipe, in the last year, and from 5% large LCD and pen selection (as opposed to key pad), to about 50%+. In that same time it seems like anyone who still did not take credit cards now does, even traditionally non-credit card type businesses. Some mom and pop convience stores still have no cards for $5 or less rules, but even that seems like it is vanishing. Are the stores jsut doing with less or are fees adjusting for volme, a mix, or something else?
Re:A card is more than just a magnetic strip...
on
The Universal Card
·
· Score: 1
BTW, thanks for what is probably the best and most intelligent discussion I've had on slashdot in years. You rule.
Re:A card is more than just a magnetic strip...
on
The Universal Card
·
· Score: 1
Also I would argue that for many the fee is less for debit than credit. At the many stores I have to jump through hoops to get it to go into credit mode, and in fact many times it isnt even labled; you have to know to hit cancel at the right time. I dont think this is an accident, or somehow a slick move by the CC or quiptment vendor against the store chain.
Re:A card is more than just a magnetic strip...
on
The Universal Card
·
· Score: 1
I would agree with all of the points you are making. However I think there is also a very strong trend running the other way.
For instance Taco Bell and most other places which live on high volume no longer require me to sign, even when the card was handed to the cachier for transactions under say 10 dollars. The convienince and demand for acceptance by consumers is starting to break down the older traditional patterns and fee structures. Places that would never of had taken credit cards now do in droves. That never would have happened with out concessions on both sides.
I think the CC companies are succuming to the lure of higher volume, and adjusting accordingly. In the end it probably is the most efficient way to exchange funds and the only way this can happen is for a shift like this to happen.
Thus when a million card readers and billions of transactions can't possibly be enforced, at least not right away, and not for years.
Hey it was supposed to be funny. I guess funny is a double edged sword, love or hate, nothing in between.
(please dont mod me down for this one too.)
Re:A card is more than just a magnetic strip...
on
The Universal Card
·
· Score: 1
Are we talking about now or are we argueing counter measures for the future. I am talking about now. None of the places I shop have any kind of prompt to hand over a card, plus the card hand over defeats the the effeciency of the self help card reader.
If anything the trend for stores is the opposite of what you are saying. And it would take forever to switch back. For instance, latly in the past few months, I get confused all the time by handing a card to the cachier only to have it immediatly handed back and notice they have a new self help reader installed. This must have happened five times in different places the last month.
I can think of three places in the last year that now have self check out lanes. Ther is usually only one person for two or four lanes that is just there to keep people honenst, help if someone gets confused, or give cash back.
So the original argument I posed is how would they stop it. Not in the sense of countermeasures, but it the since of their own infrastrucuture working against them, at least for a long time for most places.
Re:A card is more than just a magnetic strip...
on
The Universal Card
·
· Score: 1
The two main grocery stores where I shop, the video rental store, gas station, Best Buy, even Babies-R-Us, you name it, only care if its debit or credit. And most of the ones I see now ask you which one it is. The number on the card already says which credit card company isuesd the card and its been that way for a long time.
What I got and what most of the other articles got from this AMD presentation at Comdex from Ruiz is that AMD intends to change the paradigm for which processors and other computing equiptment and parts are designed, marketed and sold.
He wants to guide AMD to make alliances with other companies based on real need, both on the production side (manufacturing, design, parts suppliers, etc..), and on the customer side (for both businesses and consumers). In marketing and sales this includes having referencable, high profile business users like Gibson, Lucas, and Cray drive the worth of AMD products to the market place, and not by necessisarily having the highest specs used in the current simiconducter marketing paradgm. This has nothing to do necessisaily with moving away from PCs.
I think is is a worthy endevor and I hope it goes well for AMD. My "hook" for you is to say that this is the exact kind of thing that should be promoted and revered by Slashdot readers as this kind of thinking is what Linux and Open Source is all about: Driving toward what is real and useful and skipping the normal marketing bullshit.
No doubt. I'll try to complain about slashdot lemmings at least once a day now.
How is it that this forbs article got an entilrely different spin on what AMD is doing from everyine alse who reported on the same event and was sitting in the same rooms for the same lecture?
Again here is the headline. I will decode some of what may not be obvious.
AMD to move beyond PC, faster chips no longer key Reuters, 11.19.02, 4:04 PM ET
By Reed Stevenson
LAS VEGAS, Nov 19 (Reuters) - Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (nyse: AMD - news - people) said on Tuesday that it would embrace a strategy of developing processors for a wider range of products outside computers and called on the industry to focus on user needs rather than creating "technology for technology's sake.".....
In a shift away from the slowing personal computer industry, where Intel and AMD have significant stakes, AMD said it would begin working with a wider variety of companies to sell its products.
Ruiz brought out executives and representatives from Gibson Guitar Company, George Lucas' JAK Films and supercomputer company Cray Inc. to illustrate the technology that Sunnyvale, California-based AMD was delivering outside personal computers.....
1) The first thing is the title which you could maybe read to mean what the slashdot article makes this story out to be, but technically they dont say that AMD is moving out of PC processors or anything remotely like that.
2) The story actually comes from rueters, not forbes, so they just picked a meaty article to post on their site, not necessiarily paying much attention to any possible fud or slant. Again not the most responsible, but not as bad as the slashdot article.
3) Dont know who this guy is, but probalby a reuters hack.
4) "LAS VEGAS, Nov 19 (Reuters)" - this was from the same stuff on the same day as all of the other Ruiz (AMD CEO) articles, but this is the most creatively different article (besides slashdot) that I have read so far.
5) The leading paragraph is true as is technically the rest of it.
6) The other two paragraphs I show here, when mixed with the title, is where people might begin to get the wrong idea and where I think they could have done a better job. I dare say that this is the part where it could seem slanted.
7) The last sentence in the excerpt that I show above is the "hook" for the article. Its where an actual statement is made as proof of the "moving away" title. It is this sentince that makes it sound like AMD is not doing PC things at all for these guys.
I'll try to counter a few of these: - Cray is going to be made of commodity PC processors. Many/most of the super computers these days are made with commodity procesors (and many of the other parts are commodity as well).
- The Lucus pre-rendering was done on PCs and there was never a mention of *not* user PCs for any other work. Here is a real quote form a real reporter: "Using the Athelon processor, JAK Films was able to help realize George Lucas' vision of his fantastic world," Ruiz explained after a brief onstage chat with Star Wars robot character R2D2. http://www.showgo.com/storytest.cfm?story_id=2054
- And as for gibson: It features a "hexaphonic" pick-up that transfers the analog sounds of the strings to a digital format. The signal is then moved via Ethernet to an AMD Athlon 64-bit digital audio workstation (DAW), where it can be amplified, modified or blended with other musical instruments. The technology will allow musicians to collaborate and jam with others even if they're in different cities around the world. http://www.showgo.com/storytest.cfm?story_id=2054 (same as other link).
The next version of Microsoft Corp.'s Office productivity suite will come with XML support baked into Word, allowing users to, among other things, more effectively mine their data.
Code-named Office 11, the suite will feature built-in support for XML in Word, allowing developers to create "smart" documents that automatically search for code or updates as needed.
Microsoft XML Architect and Co-Creator of W3C's XML 1.0 Standard To Unveil XML Vision for "Office 11" at XML Conference & Exposition
XML Visionary Will Put the Microsoft "Office 11" XML Pieces Together for Attendees
REDMOND, Wash. -- Nov. 14, 2002 -- Jean Paoli, Microsoft XML architect and co-creator of the World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) XML 1.0 standard, will be a featured speaker at the IDEAlliance XML Conference & Exposition 2002 in Baltimore next month. Sponsored in part by Microsoft Corp., the conference is the world's largest exposition on XML-based software and services. Paoli's presentation, titled "Bringing the XML vision to the desktop with 'Office 11,'" will detail Microsoft's vision for XML and provide attendees with a first look at the technical architecture in the next version of Microsoft® Office, code-named "Office 11." The presentation will take place at 4:45 p.m. EST (1:45 p.m. PST) Wednesday, Dec. 11, at the Baltimore Convention Center.
I hate to rant about the slashdot sheep/lemmings thing again but most of the posts so far drone on about something like "this should shake up the patent system", "patents should be more limited" and "I normally dont like intel but this is sad", etc... (the apologist ones are my all time favorite)
WAKE UP!!!!
Intergraph was absolutly kicking ass at one point, just like any other underdog you guys would usually champion, and Intel almost completely stomped them into the ground. It is more tham fair of them to do this and they have every right.
Go read the history and at least decide for yourself. Please!!!
----
btw, the pre-emptive apology / please dont mod me down ones are my all time favorite, ala "I normally dont like intel but..." or "I dont normally like microsoft but..."
One more thing about why thing are the way they are:
Times for most companies are still tight right now, if not financially then at least in hteir thinking. For the drive manufacturers who mostly do IDE, this would be a great time to build and market IDE drives for servers. While this may happen sometime in the future, why dont they all do it now?
I mean any 100+ million dollar revenue per year businesses that ran their databases and other critial shit on consumer grade drives to save $40,000 over two or three years in replacement and upgrade costs would be a bunch of complete idiots. And thats how most companies and it departments see it. If the drives keeps eating shit and you bought it, its your ass.
So the drive companies of mostly IDE drives know that they cant meet the service level and infratructure requirements, requred by these applications. So they dont do it, and the world is in a perfect place.
Conversly alot of regular consumers cant understand why ANYONE would buy SCSI fro ANY reason at those prices as the quality and stats seem to be the much the same from their perspective. I mean alot of it is also how the firmware is tuned as to the performance differences on server and desktop applications. Is it nuts to pay 200-300% more more for firmware? Yes. Is that all that is going on no. But just because one doesnt understand having never been in a position of real need, doesnt mean that ther isnt a valid justfication. The good news it that IDE drives are the best that they have ever been, and that a regular consumer can jsut go on and buy the largest drive at the cheapest price and be blissfully happy. Again the world is in a perfect place.
There really arent many good generalizations you can make. Like most things the issue is more complex. Sure there is a stigma attached to both scsi and ide. Sure there is an infrastructure in place on both sides that further creates the rift. Desktops have mass market ide controllers and drives with great enconomies of scale, and scsi with a huge plethora of external storage crap, exotic high end hardware, built in hot swap physical interface (SCA), and endless other crap
If you had none of that to contend with (pretend it all doesnt exist), and you were a drive manufacturer and/or a controller manufacturer judging purly on technical applicability, which curent and working (no serial ata or serial scsi in which case these 490+ arguments back and forth on./ become even more pathetic) incarnation of both standards would you use for high end? Which would you use for mass market? Ends up the same as it is now? no shit.
Hopefully the serial versions of these "standards" will finally put an end to the mac vs pc type bs. Both will have all the most modern tricks, and both will be implemented (parts created) in a way that suits their respective markets.
Lastly, two things:
-the cpu utilization if you have real need, 20% is way better than 40% (some people do use apps that beat the shit out of hard drives all day). The argument that it doesnt matter if the app isnt threaded or async with reads/writes is somewhat bullshit. Its true that blocking on the drive for a thread is blocking on the drive. But if you have a nice new OS from the last 5-6 years, most of the writing and reading go though the system file cache, and much of the time you are async. Writing can be completely async if you want it to be, and reading ahead by both the drive and the os really do happen. But if you block you block. NT kernel OS takes way better avantage of doing stuff while an app is blocked and has very nice syncronization and interrupt handling. Linux is getting way better too.
-drive differences You know how cpus and memory get binned by manufacturers, i.e. separated by how well the chips run, usually by speed? Think of IDE and SCSI not as interfaces, but as bins. Even if you make spacial platters just for IDE and special ones for SCSI, just think of how many more platters will be good enough for IDE for a good price point if you do 5400 or 7200 rpms. Like wise what quality chips and standards would you apply. What you make into a war is just economics and binning of designs and part tolarances accoring to market segment demands.
Now this is funny! ITS FUNNY DAMNIT! He is showing the humor in his own wise choice of putting "sorry for so sounding so harsh" at the end of a good but not party line comment, as all good posters should.
I was about to write something similar but then noticed the comment, and that it was by the same guy. That is very funny, and I wonder if the moderators realized it was the same guy they gave the 5. And I'm sorry too for sounding so harsh.
as I get modded down for: agreeing with a mac applogist(flaimbait), asking for a good mod (offtopic), seconding an idea (redundant) and adding this comment at the bottom (troll) ouch...
I say mod this poor bastard up too. Its good comment. I wish more posts were of this quality.;)
(as I get modded down for: agreeing with a mac applogist(flaimbait), asking for a good mod (offtopic), seconding an idea (redundant) and adding this comment at the bottom (flamebait) ouch...)
Slashdot Mirror
Got promoted to mgmt. almost immediately. :-)
Nice, good info. Just know, I was never trying to challenge your knowedge, and sorry for calling you a nut. :-)
Do you think that if someone just happened to have a working universal type card today, maybe not on the CC companies radar yet just for arguments sake, that they would find opertunities for using that card grow steadily or shrink steadily in the next year or so?
It seems to me like that the ustin, Texas establishments of all types went from probably 30% self swipe to 80% self swipe, in the last year, and from 5% large LCD and pen selection (as opposed to key pad), to about 50%+. In that same time it seems like anyone who still did not take credit cards now does, even traditionally non-credit card type businesses. Some mom and pop convience stores still have no cards for $5 or less rules, but even that seems like it is vanishing. Are the stores jsut doing with less or are fees adjusting for volme, a mix, or something else?
BTW, thanks for what is probably the best and most intelligent discussion I've had on slashdot in years. You rule.
Also I would argue that for many the fee is less for debit than credit. At the many stores I have to jump through hoops to get it to go into credit mode, and in fact many times it isnt even labled; you have to know to hit cancel at the right time. I dont think this is an accident, or somehow a slick move by the CC or quiptment vendor against the store chain.
I would agree with all of the points you are making. However I think there is also a very strong trend running the other way.
For instance Taco Bell and most other places which live on high volume no longer require me to sign, even when the card was handed to the cachier for transactions under say 10 dollars. The convienince and demand for acceptance by consumers is starting to break down the older traditional patterns and fee structures. Places that would never of had taken credit cards now do in droves. That never would have happened with out concessions on both sides.
I think the CC companies are succuming to the lure of higher volume, and adjusting accordingly. In the end it probably is the most efficient way to exchange funds and the only way this can happen is for a shift like this to happen.
Thus when a million card readers and billions of transactions can't possibly be enforced, at least not right away, and not for years.
Hey it was supposed to be funny. I guess funny is a double edged sword, love or hate, nothing in between.
(please dont mod me down for this one too.)
Are we talking about now or are we argueing counter measures for the future. I am talking about now. None of the places I shop have any kind of prompt to hand over a card, plus the card hand over defeats the the effeciency of the self help card reader.
If anything the trend for stores is the opposite of what you are saying. And it would take forever to switch back. For instance, latly in the past few months, I get confused all the time by handing a card to the cachier only to have it immediatly handed back and notice they have a new self help reader installed. This must have happened five times in different places the last month.
I can think of three places in the last year that now have self check out lanes. Ther is usually only one person for two or four lanes that is just there to keep people honenst, help if someone gets confused, or give cash back.
So the original argument I posed is how would they stop it. Not in the sense of countermeasures, but it the since of their own infrastrucuture working against them, at least for a long time for most places.
The two main grocery stores where I shop, the video rental store, gas station, Best Buy, even Babies-R-Us, you name it, only care if its debit or credit. And most of the ones I see now ask you which one it is.
The number on the card already says which credit card company isuesd the card and its been that way for a long time.
I guess I need a more sensationalistic subject like: "This just in, new tool for ID Theft just released!" to get modded up on slashdot. :-)
Sorry, I forgot where I was for a second.
How would they know it was a chameleon. How would they stop it?
If I made a card that would read the same to 99% of the millions of dumb card readers, what could Visa or Master Card do to know the difference.
If you say the cachiers would check every card, especially with all of the self swipe readers out now, then you are a nut.
I think somehting like this would eventually happen.
Sounds dangerous.... one peice card skimmer.
Seems like it would make it easy to steal peoples credit cards, you no longer even have have the original card.
Fun uses: skimming, pick pocketing, "borrowing" your friends / enimies credit card, etc....
I wonder if you can read from one cameleon to another. Complete havok.
I agree, this is a absolutely great comment.
Someone needs to mod this up, alot.
Too bad I only saw it after I used my mod points. I like it so much I am going to happily loose all my mod points just to make this post.
And by the way....
What I got and what most of the other articles got from this AMD presentation at Comdex from Ruiz is that AMD intends to change the paradigm for which processors and other computing equiptment and parts are designed, marketed and sold.
He wants to guide AMD to make alliances with other companies based on real need, both on the production side (manufacturing, design, parts suppliers, etc..), and on the customer side (for both businesses and consumers). In marketing and sales this includes having referencable, high profile business users like Gibson, Lucas, and Cray drive the worth of AMD products to the market place, and not by necessisarily having the highest specs used in the current simiconducter marketing paradgm. This has nothing to do necessisaily with moving away from PCs.
I think is is a worthy endevor and I hope it goes well for AMD. My "hook" for you is to say that this is the exact kind of thing that should be promoted and revered by Slashdot readers as this kind of thinking is what Linux and Open Source is all about: Driving toward what is real and useful and skipping the normal marketing bullshit.
Thanks
How is it that this forbs article got an entilrely different spin on what AMD is doing from everyine alse who reported on the same event and was sitting in the same rooms for the same lecture?
Again here is the headline. I will decode some of what may not be obvious.
1) The first thing is the title which you could maybe read to mean what the slashdot article makes this story out to be, but technically they dont say that AMD is moving out of PC processors or anything remotely like that.
2) The story actually comes from rueters, not forbes, so they just picked a meaty article to post on their site, not necessiarily paying much attention to any possible fud or slant. Again not the most responsible, but not as bad as the slashdot article.
3) Dont know who this guy is, but probalby a reuters hack.
4) "LAS VEGAS, Nov 19 (Reuters)" - this was from the same stuff on the same day as all of the other Ruiz (AMD CEO) articles, but this is the most creatively different article (besides slashdot) that I have read so far.
5) The leading paragraph is true as is technically the rest of it.
6) The other two paragraphs I show here, when mixed with the title, is where people might begin to get the wrong idea and where I think they could have done a better job. I dare say that this is the part where it could seem slanted.
7) The last sentence in the excerpt that I show above is the "hook" for the article. Its where an actual statement is made as proof of the "moving away" title. It is this sentince that makes it sound like AMD is not doing PC things at all for these guys.
I'll try to counter a few of these:
- Cray is going to be made of commodity PC processors. Many/most of the super computers these days are made with commodity procesors (and many of the other parts are commodity as well).
- The Lucus pre-rendering was done on PCs and there was never a mention of *not* user PCs for any other work. Here is a real quote form a real reporter: "Using the Athelon processor, JAK Films was able to help realize George Lucas' vision of his fantastic world," Ruiz explained after a brief onstage chat with Star Wars robot character R2D2. http://www.showgo.com/storytest.cfm?story_id=2054
- And as for gibson: It features a "hexaphonic" pick-up that transfers the analog sounds of the strings to a digital format. The signal is then moved via Ethernet to an AMD Athlon 64-bit digital audio workstation (DAW), where it can be amplified, modified or blended with other musical instruments. The technology will allow musicians to collaborate and jam with others even if they're in different cities around the world.
http://www.showgo.com/storytest.cfm?story_id=2054 (same as other link).
Thanks for reading
this is funny
you gave (#4731273) funny, but not this one?
All microsoft said was that they were going to wait and see.
Here are a few things to read. I'm sure you can find more if you try....
Ripped from the headlines....
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,561973,00.as
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2002/Nov
The times you wish you had mod points....
How is this flaimbait?
I agree, READ THE INFO FIRST !
I hate to rant about the slashdot sheep/lemmings thing again but most of the posts so far drone on about something like "this should shake up the patent system", "patents should be more limited" and "I normally dont like intel but this is sad", etc... (the apologist ones are my all time favorite)
WAKE UP!!!!
Intergraph was absolutly kicking ass at one point, just like any other underdog you guys would usually champion, and Intel almost completely stomped them into the ground. It is more tham fair of them to do this and they have every right.
Go read the history and at least decide for yourself. Please!!!
----
btw, the pre-emptive apology / please dont mod me down ones are my all time favorite, ala "I normally dont like intel but..." or "I dont normally like microsoft but..."
One more thing about why thing are the way they are:
Times for most companies are still tight right now, if not financially then at least in hteir thinking. For the drive manufacturers who mostly do IDE, this would be a great time to build and market IDE drives for servers. While this may happen sometime in the future, why dont they all do it now?
I mean any 100+ million dollar revenue per year businesses that ran their databases and other critial shit on consumer grade drives to save $40,000 over two or three years in replacement and upgrade costs would be a bunch of complete idiots. And thats how most companies and it departments see it. If the drives keeps eating shit and you bought it, its your ass.
So the drive companies of mostly IDE drives know that they cant meet the service level and infratructure requirements, requred by these applications. So they dont do it, and the world is in a perfect place.
Conversly alot of regular consumers cant understand why ANYONE would buy SCSI fro ANY reason at those prices as the quality and stats seem to be the much the same from their perspective. I mean alot of it is also how the firmware is tuned as to the performance differences on server and desktop applications. Is it nuts to pay 200-300% more more for firmware? Yes. Is that all that is going on no. But just because one doesnt understand having never been in a position of real need, doesnt mean that ther isnt a valid justfication. The good news it that IDE drives are the best that they have ever been, and that a regular consumer can jsut go on and buy the largest drive at the cheapest price and be blissfully happy. Again the world is in a perfect place.
for all of you nutty people argueing
./ become even more pathetic) incarnation of both standards would you use for high end? Which would you use for mass market? Ends up the same as it is now? no shit.
cpu utilitzation and general myths
proof
There really arent many good generalizations you can make. Like most things the issue is more complex. Sure there is a stigma attached to both scsi and ide. Sure there is an infrastructure in place on both sides that further creates the rift. Desktops have mass market ide controllers and drives with great enconomies of scale, and scsi with a huge plethora of external storage crap, exotic high end hardware, built in hot swap physical interface (SCA), and endless other crap
If you had none of that to contend with (pretend it all doesnt exist), and you were a drive manufacturer and/or a controller manufacturer judging purly on technical applicability, which curent and working (no serial ata or serial scsi in which case these 490+ arguments back and forth on
Hopefully the serial versions of these "standards" will finally put an end to the mac vs pc type bs. Both will have all the most modern tricks, and both will be implemented (parts created) in a way that suits their respective markets.
Lastly, two things:
-the cpu utilization
if you have real need, 20% is way better than 40% (some people do use apps that beat the shit out of hard drives all day). The argument that it doesnt matter if the app isnt threaded or async with reads/writes is somewhat bullshit. Its true that blocking on the drive for a thread is blocking on the drive. But if you have a nice new OS from the last 5-6 years, most of the writing and reading go though the system file cache, and much of the time you are async. Writing can be completely async if you want it to be, and reading ahead by both the drive and the os really do happen. But if you block you block. NT kernel OS takes way better avantage of doing stuff while an app is blocked and has very nice syncronization and interrupt handling. Linux is getting way better too.
-drive differences
You know how cpus and memory get binned by manufacturers, i.e. separated by how well the chips run, usually by speed? Think of IDE and SCSI not as interfaces, but as bins. Even if you make spacial platters just for IDE and special ones for SCSI, just think of how many more platters will be good enough for IDE for a good price point if you do 5400 or 7200 rpms. Like wise what quality chips and standards would you apply. What you make into a war is just economics and binning of designs and part tolarances accoring to market segment demands.
mark this guy down
hes talking bad about our wonderful forum
Why even be here if you dont like it!
yeah, go back to your little microcrap world and leave us alone.
And we are not Xeno-whatevers; you scare me!
Now this is funny! ITS FUNNY DAMNIT! He is showing the humor in his own wise choice of putting "sorry for so sounding so harsh" at the end of a good but not party line comment, as all good posters should.
I was about to write something similar but then noticed the comment, and that it was by the same guy. That is very funny, and I wonder if the moderators realized it was the same guy they gave the 5. And I'm sorry too for sounding so harsh.
Sorry, should have read:
as I get modded down for: agreeing with a mac applogist(flaimbait), asking for a good mod (offtopic), seconding an idea (redundant) and adding this comment at the bottom (troll) ouch...
hate it when I screw up a crappy joke
No doubt!
;)
I say mod this poor bastard up too. Its good comment. I wish more posts were of this quality.
(as I get modded down for: agreeing with a mac applogist(flaimbait), asking for a good mod (offtopic), seconding an idea (redundant) and adding this comment at the bottom (flamebait) ouch...)