I wonder why they have manipulated the statistics like that. They split Opera into different versions and systems
That's not what kills Opera though. Add them all up and they're not quite 1%. You're right it's not a fair assessment, but I don't think its eactly biased either. Not like they did that to make Opera look bad.
They may not be selling their software, at least from an accounting perspective, but their hardware would be rather worthless if the price didn't include an OS to run on it.
Like the iPod you mean. I have a Mac, and I don't use any Apple software on it at all. The copy of OS 9 that I got with it is almost entirely worthless, yet the computer is not.
You guys are accusing me of saying things I never said. I merely copied an pasted numbers from their statement. Which doesn't mention one year figures at all. The term of the numbers doesn't matter, it's the percentage of sales against the whole that is what is conveyed there. It's a 3 month period (quarterly), not 12.
You are right though, it is "net sales in millions and unit sales in thousands". 4% is 4% though. Doesn't make any difference if you talk in hundreds, thousands, or millions.
I do not believe your 4% interpretation exhibits a clue about their focus and efforts on software or the value of the software to those purchasing the hardware.
Well that's what we're talking about here. That Apple sees its software division as a way to increase hardware sales, not that they see their hardware as a means to make great software.
And you are trying to claim that they got by on 3 million in total net sales last year?
I didn't. I didn't claim it was figures for 1 year at all. And it's their numbers, on their financial statement. Not mine.
I'm not 100% certain, but I *think* Apple sells software, too.
I'm not certain either, but according to this (Page 27)... Software represents about (in thousands) $134 of $3,243 in net sales. I'm not one of these financial market types, but I've got a calculator and it seems that software represents about 4% of their income.
I don't know, I'm a big fan of this new 21st century thinking, where facts don't really matter. If popular opinion says it was Bill who said it, it must be.
It seems to me after I RTFA that the wine group actively identified this as being a problem and pursued corrective measures.
Yeah, and if that is what prompted Eben Moglen to bring this up in the first place, then I feel terrible for even suggesting that he endangered the project. It was a bad assumption on my part. I should know better than to second guess the man, he's done more for free software than I can ever hope to.
I became cynical a looooooong time ago.. Before SCO became SCO and was still Caldera, and when they used to be the good guys, and the SCO of those days were partly owned by Microsoft but were some how also sort of the good guys.
Makes you wonder if Eben Moglen did anybody a favour in bringing people's attention to Wine's potential patent problems. With patents its best not to even look for them. This just gives Borland ideas I'm sure. They don't have any products to sell these days do they? Why not expand into the litigation market.
Its great that there are lawyers willing to spend time on OSS projects, but they just dumped a whole pile of hurt on Wine if Borland pursues this.
Slashdot Mirror
The Salvation Army maybe?
The Army uses Webstar running on OS 9
What Army are we talking about here? The U.S. Army?
The army has begun using it as a webserver platform
OS9 as a webserver platform over BSD or Linux? I don't think so.
do they lump it in with Mozilla too?
Maybe.. Better shave half a percentage off Gecko to be sure.
I wonder why they have manipulated the statistics like that. They split Opera into different versions and systems
That's not what kills Opera though. Add them all up and they're not quite 1%. You're right it's not a fair assessment, but I don't think its eactly biased either. Not like they did that to make Opera look bad.
They may not be selling their software, at least from an accounting perspective, but their hardware would be rather worthless if the price didn't include an OS to run on it.
Like the iPod you mean. I have a Mac, and I don't use any Apple software on it at all. The copy of OS 9 that I got with it is almost entirely worthless, yet the computer is not.
My bad..
Accusing you of accusing me of saying things I didn't say.. Ooooh, the irony just stings. Hehehe
You guys are accusing me of saying things I never said. I merely copied an pasted numbers from their statement. Which doesn't mention one year figures at all. The term of the numbers doesn't matter, it's the percentage of sales against the whole that is what is conveyed there. It's a 3 month period (quarterly), not 12.
You are right though, it is "net sales in millions and unit sales in thousands". 4% is 4% though. Doesn't make any difference if you talk in hundreds, thousands, or millions.
I do not believe your 4% interpretation exhibits a clue about their focus and efforts on software or the value of the software to those purchasing the hardware.
Well that's what we're talking about here. That Apple sees its software division as a way to increase hardware sales, not that they see their hardware as a means to make great software.
And you are trying to claim that they got by on 3 million in total net sales last year?
I didn't. I didn't claim it was figures for 1 year at all. And it's their numbers, on their financial statement. Not mine.
It seems that...
in general, generalizations are mostly useless.
I happen to agree with you that it's probably true to a certain degree. But I wouldn't argue the point either way without some evidence.
I'm not 100% certain, but I *think* Apple sells software, too.
I'm not certain either, but according to this (Page 27)... Software represents about (in thousands) $134 of $3,243 in net sales. I'm not one of these financial market types, but I've got a calculator and it seems that software represents about 4% of their income.
Not much of a software company if you ask me.
you might have checked that first.
Sorry, I meant they don't have any successful products.
Would have done a lot of good to your credibility.
Who needs credibility when I've got Karma.
was an IBM prediction
I don't know, I'm a big fan of this new 21st century thinking, where facts don't really matter. If popular opinion says it was Bill who said it, it must be.
I can choose between an overloaded supernode with Shaw, or a consistent 3Mbit/s DSL
I'll take the overloaded supernode with a consistent 5Mbit/s. Can't say much for the TV, I don't watch it.
the real solution would be to go to a more reliable operating system
You misspelled more reliable operating system.
It seems to me after I RTFA that the wine group actively identified this as being a problem and pursued corrective measures.
Yeah, and if that is what prompted Eben Moglen to bring this up in the first place, then I feel terrible for even suggesting that he endangered the project. It was a bad assumption on my part. I should know better than to second guess the man, he's done more for free software than I can ever hope to.
Let's not let SCO make us all cynical.
I became cynical a looooooong time ago.. Before SCO became SCO and was still Caldera, and when they used to be the good guys, and the SCO of those days were partly owned by Microsoft but were some how also sort of the good guys.
Borland use winelibs in their Linux Delphi/C++ Builder version called Kylix
/me keeps his fingers crossed.
Thats a good point. So they could either do the right thing and donate a license, or use their patent to gain some control over Wine.
How do you figure?
Sorry, I'm making a generalization. That's just the first thing I thought of when I read the story the other day.. "Uh oh, here they come".
I can think of quite a few. Patents suck. They just lead to rediculous situations like this one. (Thanks Apple)
Makes you wonder if Eben Moglen did anybody a favour in bringing people's attention to Wine's potential patent problems. With patents its best not to even look for them. This just gives Borland ideas I'm sure. They don't have any products to sell these days do they? Why not expand into the litigation market.
Its great that there are lawyers willing to spend time on OSS projects, but they just dumped a whole pile of hurt on Wine if Borland pursues this.
Thanks.. Chickpeas are funny enough I guess, but it didn't really make sense.
"Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option."
There's got to be a punchline in there somewhere.. I just can't seem to find it. Please explain, so I can get on with my life.
... And Bill Gates will continue to try to predict things.
I still say 640K is more RAM than anyone needs.
Some of us are insensitive clods you... er... yeah
I salute you sir. That's awesome, nicely done.