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Windows XP Starter Edition Snubs P4, Athlon
Apu writes "CNET is reporting that Microsoft's Windows XP Starter Edition operating system specifically checks the result of the CPUID instruction on bootup and fails to continue if a Pentium 4 or Athlon processor is detected."
It is of course, an arbitrary decision manufactured by the marketing department as to my knowledge, there is no real functionality that is enabled on the "Pro" version of Windows with the Pentium 4 or Athalon chips. So, it seems like a fairly simple hack to get around this issue, as there is likely no real difference in the codebase of the Starter Edition other than some features that marketing has decided to disable and of course the above mentioned check, yes? (likely to violate the license terms)
So, quick question: Windows has appeared to evolved into a seriously fragmented OS. How many different versions of Windows are there? There is a Mobile, Embedded, Server, Pro, Home, Starter, Handheld......What else?
Oh, and Microsoft......If you cant make Windows more stable, you might want to do something about those error messages that crop up on computers running things like displays at airports. Almost every time I fly these days, at the airport, I see a computer running an information display that has crashed. Either a bluescreen of death (soon to be redscreen AND bluescreen of death in Longhorn), or a fundamental error message. This never looks good to customers and is bad advertising in large traffic areas. One of these days, one of these systems is going to get hacked and something truly embarrassing is going to be displayed on all of those big displays.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
it is designed for low-cost, entry-level desktop PCs running value-based processors
This is fine as long as MS provides a patch when P4 or AMD64 is considered low-cost and entry-level.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
That's nothing! My copy of WinXP fails to continue if any kind of CPU is detected!
"You can justify anything by putting it in quotes, adding a famous name and making it a sig" - Albert Einstein
Really funny that they would think someone would want to pirate a crippled OS.
But will it run on a 386?
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Shouldn't this be under "Your Rights Online?"
This space for rent.
what "low cost" means anyway?
The value that proprietary software can offer than F/OSS can't.
You think Microsoft would have learned after the games they played with Windows for Workgroups 3.11 and DR. DOS. This will not make the anti-trust crowd any happier, and just serves to tick off the opponents of Microsoft more.
Microsoft is essentially creating a market for Linux by doing this. It's all about standardization and if companies have to purchase two different versions of Linux to use their hardware, they are going to look hard at the decision before doing so.
Windows XP Starter Edition ain't done, 'til... umm... Wintel and AMD won't run?
OK, boys, time to haul ass over to DEC^H^H^HCompaq^H^H^H^H^H^H^HHP and dig out those Alpha chips! Anyone got an P-II or a K6-III we can borrow until then?
On your second point, I think that Microsoft ought to have an option for screens to go black on errors.
Microsoft Operating Systems are used daily in environments where it really isn't useful to display large blue screens with technical error information. Printing that information to a file crit_error.dat and displaying a black screen will be much less obtrusive and obvious in what you call "high traffic areas", and probably wont add much tech time.
Just a thought I had upon reading your post. It doesn't really *solve* the problem, it just makes it more "friendly" to these sorts of microsoft displays.
Don't forget Microsoft CEMENT. (Alternate link)
thats stupid .. i mean atlhons started at, what, 500mhz? ...or what if someone ends up upgrading their machine from a duron/celeron?
This UID is 7651 digits too high to subjectively infer IQ from.
You must use MAC for it!!
What do you mean a bug in Windows, next thing you know something is going to say they found a new vulnerability...I just don't believe the nerve of some people.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't
I think they would be wiser to give away this crippled version on the hope that as India's economy develops they will capture some market with the full price Windows XP at later stage.
MS has said that RSOD are temporary and it will be a BSOD (BLACK screen of Death) for boot-loader failures.
http://winbeta.org/comments.php?id=2988&catid=1
Here, here. MS can fuck themselves hard, deep, and long for trying our patience with their "software" and greed. I say, chaps, off we go to Linux. Tally ho!
This is slashdot, so of course I didn't RTFA, but going by the headline - XP Starter edition is supposed to be aimed at low end machines. I bought my first Athlon probally 3 - 4 years ago. I think it was 1.2ghz. That's not low end these days?
It's the same as having MSDE being a crippled SQLServer that limits the nubmer of threads it can run. Surely the CPU could handle more threads; but they cripple it so that more people buy the bigger one.
This Pentium4/Athlon decision makes perfect sense - if someone can afford the higher-end processor, they can afford the higher priced OS.
Microsoft claims they're using this software as a way to get pirates to start paying for the software. But tell me, what is the average person going to use: the "starter edition" that doesn't even work on their PC, or the pirated edition that does? The value of legal software indeed.
Stupid like a fox!
If no special instructions are in use, can't somebody just find the right system call to replace and return whatever string is acceptable?
That was the old hack proposed for defeating CPUID in the first place.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Aims at foot
Pulls trigger
Screams bloody murder at the sight and feeling of the mess on the floor
It is doomed to fail as long as the asian black market doesnt go under...which is less likely than MS going under.
is it just me but does this seem to be a new way for microsoft to keep market share by only supporting processors that work best on windows (i.e. no 64 bit)?
It seems there doing this to prevent PC Manufacturers from bundling it with the cheaper end of the higher-end PCs - probably because buisnesses and others who need a lot but don't need all the full features, would want it, as it is about half as expensive as Home edition, and a lot cheaper than Professional.
If they let it run, then, it would effectively compete with their full versions, hurting their profits!
"Real programmers don't comment their code. If it was hard to write it should be hard to understand."
When a company has monopoly power in a market. Imagine Ford coming out with a car that will not start in certain supermarket parking lots, or a TV that will not show you a specific channel. Why is it Microsoft can get away with shit like this but other companies in other industries can't?
We still need a sarcasm tag ... the ultimate mod-down.
"Old man yells at systemd"
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Sounds like a fun thing to try to disable.
Also pretty easy since you can search for the
instruction in question.
Every engineer knows that.
It's a condition of employment, every last brain cell has to be destroyed before they're allowed anywhere near a product.
MS's product managers are no different to any others. Ie. all brain dead.
Shhhh! Someone mod this down. We don't want this to get out.
it doesnt run on athlon/p4 ant cant run/runs like shit on lower. gee. thanks MS
This just reeks of some hush hush deal with a hardware vendor to keep people locked in to older hardware in a bid to get rid of over stocked parts.
I'll be the shoe thanks.
My question is, if someone finally gets the money to upgrade their low-end CPU to something faster, why should the OS stop working?
The point is to help poor countries develop, not to just "help poor people in poor countries do basic stuff".
What if those poor countries were given high-end computers as DONATIONS? Like for schools, universities, etc?
IMO Microsoft is asking for BIG trouble here. Key term: Discrimination.
Technically, using a P4 or an Athlon would still make the Starter Edition function the same. If they just block the processors, it just prevents companies from using their previous models existing if they usually only using P4's or Athlons. The Durons are slowly being phased out, and the Celerons would seriously hurt the performance. If they allowed all processors, businesses won't be able to take advantages of it anyways. The limits just won't work out for any type of business, no matter how light. Even in schools and such, not even the home edition quite suffices. Even with the low-end only limit, that's still not going to stop businesses and such from using the Starter Edition. Many corporations don't need the performance of the P4s and Athlons anyways, and thus opt for Celeron and Duron because they're cheaper. Limiting the Starter Edition to the low-end systems will just limit the customers. Everyone would probably just look at it as a reason to just get a lower-end computer, and thus some new users might think twice before buying a system with the Starter Edition.
to read someone from a mostly Linux messageboard call windows fragmented
...is the part that says "Microsoft ... wants to use perks such as bug patches and alerts to demonstrate the value of legal software."
Interesting, that bug patches are cast as "perks." - Of course leaving unaddressed the value of software that doesn't need bug patches in the first place.
So maybe that's why there are so many bugs in Windows -- So we'll all be so dang grateful when we receive the bug patches!
This finally explains why I like Microsoft products so much...
If you're buying new hardware and you're forced to buy OS with it, and only option is the MS one, you can save hundreds of dollars by selecting this crippled version instead.
Naturally it won't be any use, but since your company already has volume license to Win XP Pro, you can just replace the crippled versions with the proper one.
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
Think about it. You live in India. You consider yourself lucky for being able to afford a computer, but still, you have a very limited budget compared to Americans / Europeans / whatever. What would you do? Buy a better system and get a pirated version of the OS or do The Right Thing (TM) and buy a worse system but with a legally acquired OS? Sure, you won't help your friend whose family is starving, but you're willing to give money away to the richest foreigner in the world.
Bored? Browse Slashdot with a +6 modifier for Troll comme
Megadeth? That is old school. Mozart rules!
Now that all the Longhorn features were either delayed from Longhorn (WinFS) or backported to XP (Avalon, and whatever that "third pillar of Longhorn" was), they're probably just afraid that this product would compete successfully against Longhorn. Since Longhorn's only remaining distinguishing feature from XP is that can only run on the most expensive hardware, this is a nice way of avoiding the compitition.
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does it run on Linux?
oops
Having lived in India, I can tell you why this won't work. The users who pirate Windows are not people who need computers only for basic word processing - they are proper users who use computers as part of their lifestyle, much like people elsewhere in the world do. They do not like their OS to be crippled in any way.
Why then, you ask, do they have to pirate Windows? The reason is cost: A user can afford to spend $100-$200 for a legal copy of Windows in the US, but in India due to the exchange rate it becomes a huge amount! It's comparable to the actual price of the desktop, and note that people spend a large fraction of their income to buy a desktop in the first place. Microsoft does not price their software according to purchasing power, instead it does a straight conversion of $$ to Rupees.
If Microsoft offers a cheaper Windows for a lesser price, people will just keep pirating the 'proper' OS for free. And sometime later, they will migrate to Linux when they find that Linux can offer them pretty much the same functionality. If MS wants people to use Windows and PAY for it, all they need to do is offer an uncrippled OS for a price that is affordable in India.
Note to Microsoft: People don't want to buy your crippled software, even if it cheap.
"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." - Abraham Maslow (1908-1970)
They'll user starter, find out it sucks, use Home and/or Pro, find out it sucks, get bigger and better machines and find out that after all these years IT STILL SUCKS.
Then mumble something about "need Word and Outlook for work..." as they go to buy another copy.
/Why Yes, this WAS typed on a mac!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
At the risk of sounding new here, I am amazed at the mindset. Whatever happened to making the best product you can and trying to sell as much of it as you can? The idea at Microsoft appears to be to sell your product as much as you can by making it perform poorly compared to itself. Or something like that.
Imagine being the engineers tasked with writing the feature that disables the OS on "advanced" CPUs. What pride they must have in their work.
Then consider the conversation between the marketing guru and his twelve-year-old son. "So, Dad, what did you do at work today?". What pride they must have in their work.
Then consider the poor sap who buys XP Starter Edition and finds out that it won't start. He can't return it, having opened it. All he can do is put it on EBay and hope he doesn't get sued.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
I dont get this. EVERYONE (well, most) have p4s an athalons. What am I supposed to run this thing on?????
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
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Frankly, considering the market their trying to attract with this version, it kinda makes sense. Although it would make more sense to drop the price of this thing to free and offer an upgrade to Home for $50.
This is basicially a crippled WinXP anyway, so anyone that's going to do any amount of mid to high end computing is going to go to home or Pro anyway.
Low end wise, they want something out there to make it look like Windows Isn't expensive, After all it's pretty sad when a company can almost build a low end PC cheaper than putting windows on it anymore.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
A high frequency Celeron still costs less than a low frequency P4. It's because they suck that bad.
Trust me, I used to have one.
Don't be so hard on Microsoft. They are just looking to improve mean time between failure.
Squirrel!
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This is just another example of why OSS is the way to go in developing countries. I even think that this move is condescending from microsoft (and it isn't the first time).
Treehugger? Treehugger... Treehugger!
Seems like an interesting way to price their product. The faster your CPU the more you should spend on the OS. Similiar to taxes in most places the more you make the more you should be able to give in taxes hence the higher your tax rate. Hopefully it will be available stateside also. It would be nice to set up cheap computers, running windows, around my house that could control my home automation. Be simplier then the terminal based version that I have been looking at. http://www.zanware.com/
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Linux is a far superior OS anyway. Just dump XP and run Linux!
"If a Pentium 4 or Athlon processor is detected" Doses this mean that Redmond is saying that even the low end AMD Athlons, with the exception of the Semprons, are considered high end when compared to Intel's offerings? This is the one time I may actually agree with microsoft on something.
Pirate it. Arrr!
This is called price discrimination. It allows you to extract maximum profit from people (particularly those who are unwilling/unable to pay the same as the market price). Microsoft is making the simple (and correct!) assumption that people buying budget PCs are more price conscious and therefore will be more enticed by a lower priced operating system. Remember, NOBODY in the US is going to get their hands on a copy of this OS. As long as Dell is selling fully functional PCs with XP Home for $300 or less, this OS is all about foreign markets where consumers can't afford US priced PCs.
I remember when MS introduced Windows 3.0 in 1990 (the first "working" version of the OS), it ran on DOS - or any of the competing DOS-compatibles. However, Win3.0 was hardcoded to fail (quit with a vague error) if it found that it was running on, I believe, "DRDOS". Because DRDOS was the #1 competitor to MS-DOS, and part of Microsoft's strategy was to use demand for Windows to compete (unfairly) with DRDOS. Such bundling leverage of market dominance has made MS what it is today. AMD gets dissed because its popular with Linux, the only credible competition to Windows (Apple doesn't use AMD, so it's immune to that competition). I wonder what exactly MS has against the P4?
--
make install -not war
There's a guy currently flooding Slashdot with randomly generated crap messages with the intent of disrupting normal discussion. Click on one of the links below to see what I mean. If you have mod points left and aren't sure what to use them for, plase mod him down so we can get his network banned.
#12514728
#12514665
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#12514343
Your help would be very much appreciated. Thanks!
...it is designed for low-cost, entry-level desktop PCs running value-based processors...
Uhm.... isn't it just MS-Windows XP with stuff ripped out? If so, then it is NOT "designed for low-cost, entry-level desktop PCs running value-based processors." It is designed for the exact same computers for which XP is designed.
It's marketed for cheap-assed computers. But it was designed for x86 computers.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
But I think it's a bug, not a feature. Haven't you ever tried opening a Windows program and had the screen go black or the computer reboot?
I think even the average user takes this as a "something is REALLY wrong" hint.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Having a screen go black merely covers up the problem. Yes, it makes Microsoft/Windows look better than it really is, but it leaves people with a false impression. What you call "obtrusive" I call "informative".
the asian-black market consists of Tiger Woods and ... ??? Doesn't seem like much of a threat to MS to me.
I didn't see any posts about how the MSDN version behaves. I'm not moved to check it myself, but I do think it would be very interesting to know. If devs have to get oddball hardware in order to develop and test this platform, that's quite inconvenient. How does it do under VMWare?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Remember, NOBODY in the US is going to get their hands on a copy of this OS.
What if we order it from one of those spamhauses that I keep getting each and every day?
I think you meant, noone in the US is supposed to get a copy of this OS.
But, given human nature, they will.
Economics is basically decisions. MSFT maximizing their profit assumes people actually pay them - which as history has shown is not necessarily true.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
With this change, and recent surveys that business people put not being locked into their vendor over cost in selecting software, the term Free/Libre Open Source Software needs to be used more, to let people know there are other options.
It is not about the cost of the software, but the freedom to run the applications you want, on the hardware you want, with the users you want, with fewer restrictions to worry about.
Libre is the difference that needs to be promoted in the open source community.
The statement you've cited is 100% pure Grade-A marketspeak...first they want to familiarize these markets with its products...then, not but a few words later...havens for piracy...
Now, color me idiotic, but why would a market that isn't familiar with a certain product be havens for piracy? I don't know if they realize this, but junk like this makes Microsoft look like an amateur.
They already have something much better than that: XP, by default, reboots automatically on errors. That's why so many people think XP is so much better that 98, they go get a coffee and when they come back the system has rebooted and seems to be running fine.
"hey man, it won't boot"
"fine, hand me the linux cd"
you had me at #!
"This Pentium4/Athlon decision makes perfect sense - if someone can afford the higher-end processor, they can afford the higher priced OS." What about donated P4/Athlon systems? You may not be able to buy them, but somebody gave you one. Now you have 2 choices, run linux(or *BSD, whatever) or steal windows.
This Pentium4/Athlon decision makes perfect sense - if someone can afford the higher-end processor, they can afford the higher priced OS.
No it doesn't. Considering the Pentium 4 is a.. 5 years old processor?
Coupled with the fact that the XP starter's edition is meant to curb piracy in countries where it is rampant, and there you go. A total foobar.
I can buy a Pentium 4 Processor for AU$150, or a rather high end A64 CPU for about AU$200. I do not need to pay A$300 for Windows XP "Normal" edition.
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
I can see why the designed it to only run on low-end CPUs. It locks the OS to the hardware it shipped with. Most of the low-end gear this version of Windows will be going on is non-upgradeable (some of these cheap boards even have the CPUs soldered on!) and who would want to pirate a very limited Windows? No one!
On the other hand, if this starter edition is installed on a PC that is upgradeable, you'll also have to upgrade the OS if you want it to work with higher-end CPUs. How nice, but that's true for most "starter editions" of software.
Note to you: apparently you don't get it. Microsoft sells this directly to PC makers, it doesn't matter if the end-user wants it or not. It doesn't matter if the end user pirates windows. Someone in india who pirates windows was going to do it if it was 200$ or 70$, it really doesn't matter, let's be realistic.
M$ found a way to still make money, while giving manufacturers what they want: a PC they can advertise running windows. The PC makers really don't give a crap if it's a full version or not either. Joe public, whether in india or america or afghanistan hasn't a cluebie the difference between XP starter edition and XP pro.
Microsoft wants them to use Linux.
Dude... the Athlon chip has been out for what, 10 years now? Time to spell it right.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
What did Microsoft learn?
DR DOS was a threat to MS-DOS. Using windows 3.11 they put doubt into the minds of users that DR-DOS wasn't truly stable and compatible. Follwing this was a fierce second blow with windows 95 which finished off DR DOS. Eventually, after Microsoft killed DR DOS they settled out of court for an undisclosed sum. However this sum could never amount to a pittance compared to the billions that Microsoft made as a monopoly.
Microsoft learned that playing games entrenches their monopoly and earns them billions in the long run.
Looking for a job?
Want your resume written professionally?
DON'T USE TUNAREZ!!!
Microsoft has always done business this way. Seems like it's pretty similar to the network crippled version of XP Home compared to XP Pro.
Well i guess this evens out since windows seems to run fine on an old 333, but KDE requires at least a P4 to be usable.. /ducks
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Perhaps it would work to use the trick I mentioned in the RSOD article (more info here) to set the BSOD to black on black, which would have the same effect.
warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.
Dude, the Athlon has been out for what, 10 years now? Time to spell it right.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
... sometimes, doesn't it help to design Hardware and Software as a single 'experience'?
----
Not to be confused with Col.
They could have just included some code to have it refuse to boot after June 30, 2009.
I thought it was just me and my G4 having issues.
... and get a call from MS' lawyers for violating the DMCA.
perks such as bug patches and alerts to demonstrate the value of legal software.
After all, why steal something that doesn't work when you can pay for it?
BSOD is *not* a core dump. BSOD is equivelent to a kernel OOPS on Linux. This is when the OS craps out thanks most likely to one of its drivers.
Core dumped error messages are equivelent to the "Windows detected an error in the application and closed it" dialogs. The difference is that you can send core dumps to the developer(s) and they can get information from it. I have no idea what to do with the stupid windows error message unless the OS your app crashed has a debuger on it.
Core dumps can be triggered by application errors. BSOD and kernel OOPS are triggered by errors in the kernel itself.
It would be impossible to install this version of Windows on a p4....
So, you would have to patch the installer as well.
Otherwise you'd have to pull out the hardrive and stick it in a machine with an older processor every time you wanted to re-install Windows.
I think MS would ofer Windows XP just to keep Linux away, but other parts of the world would ask the same offer. So doing this, users will dump the starter edition and install the proffessional ilegaly but MS won't have to justify (XP proffessional offers) to the rest of the world that is willing to pay. Smart move, but I rather pay the same price a XP pro would cost and get a 100% Linux hardware compatible system, with or without Linux.
Have the system BIOS copy memory to a reserved disk cylinder when warm booting after a crash. If BIOS could be configured to leave memory intact on warm reboot, the boot loader could have a similar feature.
as long as this feature is prominantly displayed on the packagfing and all adverts.
If you company has a volume license for Pro, and your buyer is paying for Starter, then you have a problem of incompetence in the purchasing department. At a minimum, your buyers should be negotiating for purchases with no preload, but any smart buyer will negotiate a 'no charge' preload of a 'buyer provided image' based on the buyers existing license.
Dear Trollaxor:
I've been thinking of switching lately. I've used Windows my whole life, but recently began experimenting with Linux due to political ideologies. I like a lot of things from both operating systems, and now I want one package to offer me both a nice GUI and a command line UNIX. Is Mac OS X what I'm looking for?
-Potential Switcher in Dayton
Dear Gentle Sir:
The first thing you have to look at is what you use your current operating systems for. Do you browse the web and check email? Listen to MP3s? Or are there some specific packages you use for a hobby or job? Are you into video editing? Your habits on your computers dictate how well you can switch. If you're pretty much just editing papers, browsing the web and exchanging email while listening to your favorite songs, you'll appreciate the tightly-integrated Mac experience over Windows and Linux.
If you're into Open Source programming, however, that's a different story.
Quite frankly, we don't want you on the Mac platform. You Linux zealots are all the same, and give a bad name to whatever cause you're championing this week. We Mac users don't give a shit whether something is free as in beer or free as in speech; is it free to download? That's what we want. Your subtle political differences mean nothing to this community.
We also like aesthetically pleasing things. The iBook, iMac, and all of Apple's other products are not only the best, but the best looking. Your pile of shit interfaces and GUIs won't cut it here, asswipe. KDE and GNOME got together on interface standards? Hi. I'm a Mac user. My OS has had interface standards for years. Oh, wait, look at that -- it even set most of the standards to begin with. Nice to see your fat pile of bloated code catching up 20 years later.
For a sample of how your festering pile of programming shit will go over in the Mac world, take a look at the GNU-Darwin project: turned away from Mac users and programmers because of some radical, childish political ideal. Ignored. Denied. Held equivalent to fecal matter. Not wanted. Do you really think anyone with enough money or sense to buy and use a Mac will pay any serious attention to your Open Source/Free Software communism? You're living in a dream world, pal.
Take a shower and get a clue. We don't have time for your communistic hippy bullshit. Slag right off.
-Trollaxor
The saying goes that a statement can be true or false, but not both and not neither (unless you are dealing with certain paradoxes or whatnot).
As far as my experience goes with any computer that runs Windows, it's either a P4 or an Athlon these days. What else is left? P3s? How about my 166? NT runs ok on it although Win95 is preferred for doing what I need to do with it, but I always feared XP would be too slow. There are other processors that are compatible with x86 but I hardly ever hear of them.
If I see a label that says Starter Edition, I just assume it's a lower priced version with fewer features. So naive...
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
That is because cache memory is expensive. Celerons usually have less cache than P4's, therefore they perform much worse regardless of clock rate.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Do they mean that it's actually possible to run Windows on anything less than a P4 or Athlon?
I tried installing XP 64-bit, and it refused to detect my hard drive...
Real_men_don't_need_spacebars.
enough said
And I thought Windows XP home/professional standard versions too were doing the same thing!
As far as I know they can't enforce the DMCA in India yet.
No keyboard detected. Press any key to continue.
What if your company standardizes on DELL or IBM or something.
And you need to buy one new PC for that new hire that starts wednesday.
Good luck getting a system with a rebate on the OS.
*User logs in*
(Internet is not working)
*User goes into control pannel*
*User click on 'network interfaces'*
WINDOWS INFORMATION.
"Sorry, $user, but this function is only available in regular versions of Windows XP"
A user can afford to spend $100-$200 for a legal copy of Windows in the US, but in India due to the exchange rate it becomes a huge amount!
I think I know what you are trying to say but this sentance makes little sense. The reason people in India cannot purchase Windows at US prices is because the average person's buying power in India is significantly lower. GDP per capita in the US is $40,100 while in India it is $3,100, an order of magnitude difference. But the exchange rate has only a minor impact on the Indian's ability to purchase "imported" goods at US prices. Mostly it's that most Indians are still too poor to purchase the software.
MS is attempting to prevent arbitrage but seemingly ends up cutting off their nose since their intended customers can't really purchase the product at the higher prices. Truthfully though, I don't think MS is that dumb. They won't admit it but a certain amount of piracy is good as far as they are concerned because as India develops they will have an installed base to sell to. They aren't really out any money from someone who pirates the software who wouldn't have bought it anyway (despite what the BSA claims) but there is the potential of big profits in years to come.
Seriously, if the 'nice people(tm)' at 'Microsoft (tm)' aren't 'smart enough(tm)' to to realise the bad press their actions have been generating as of late, people will stop buying Microsoft(tm) underpants all together. 'I pity the fool(tm)' that can't make it to 'step 3(tm)'.
This is exactly what you do when you are a (convicted) monopoly with $40 billion in the bank. Why is anyone surprised? Something tells me they're not out to bat for our team (the human race).
you had me at #!
..that you can obtain a PC for $299 with an Athlon CPU from Fry's, it's really, really friggin' stupid of Microsoft to do this sort of thing...
That price of XP comprises the cost of the machine at this point, less a monitor. Keep on doin' stupid stuff Billy-boy, all it does is make Open Source stuff look all that much better as an option.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
You could use a hardware watchdog timer card that would reset the PC (or let it reboot on BSODs) and automatically log-on and start the app (using limited user account - secure enough for a display unit IMHO).
:)
Otherwise, I'd rather toggle a line on the parallel port ever so often to reset a 555 timer driving a darlington transistor which would in turn drive a relay (or use an optocoupler or whatever you fancy) to either change video like you did - or just drive the reset button header on the motherboard...
IMHO it's easier in "outp" a value every so often then having to generate a tone, and it's easier to deal with the simple timer than having to deal with a tone in hardware (although both are quite simple).
So many options
///<sig
If you company has a volume license for Pro, and your buyer is paying for Starter, then you have a problem of incompetence in the purchasing department. At a minimum, your buyers should be negotiating for purchases with no preload, but any smart buyer will negotiate a 'no charge' preload of a 'buyer provided image' based on the buyers existing license.
At all the companies that I've worked at (don't claim these are representative, just my observations) have purchased at least THREE Windows licenses per computer.
1. Windows preloaded with newly purchased computer.
2. Windows installed by outsourced IT company.
3. Windows installed by in house IT organization. This is usually what the volume site license is for.
>>>"It's comparable to the actual price of the desktop"
It's the same in the UK. I can buy a computer, printer and TFT monitor cheaper than getting WinXP w/ Office.
From PCWorld.co.uk (the biggest UK high street computer store): WinXP Home = £160 (web exclusive!!), MS Office XP = £306, total = £466.
Same store,
# 2.4GHz Intel Celeron Processor
# 15" TFT Monitor
# Epson C46 Colour Desktop Printer
# 256Mb RAM
# 40Gb Hard Disk
# 4 USB connections
# CD-ROM Drive
# Intel Extreme Graphics
# Windows XP Home Edition
# Media Suite 04 Software
Total price £400.
So, what was that you were saying about windows being comparable to the cost of the desktop? I know I twisted it slightly, but MS Windows is _expensive_. And for reference, that £400 is a 24th my annual before tax income.
I know, you can get MS Win cheaper, cheapest Home Edition I can find (legally) is about £60. But then I can buy a full computer system for £200 (ebuyer.co.uk) too. And I'd have to argue that Office software is an essential part of a cheap computer system.
This has been standard practice in the computing world for decades. Back in the 60s or 70s IBM used to charge a large sum of money to upgrade mainframes by sending in an engineer to remove a part. (Maybe that's an apocryphal story but it's symptomatic of what was considered standard practice.)
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
How will MS be able to recoup the expenses of researching IP related to expensive features like DRM and TC if they sell this so cheap?
You could argue that they saved money by leaving features out of the Stunted Edition, but actually it costs more to create a separate edition than to make identical copies of the same disks. Did they leave DRM out? I doubt it (CPUID support is in there...).
So, how low can the price go before someone claims that they are dumping?
now if only AMD would make it so that your system would halt when Windows is detected, prompting you to get an OS that can take advantage of 64 bits... or just doesnt suck intirly, then we would be making real progress.
Mike
I heart the RIAA & MPAA, im sure its mutual...
In retaliation for all the shrink-wrapped stool samples I've had to deal with from them.
What Microsoft can offer for a cheaper price is not a crippled version, but a full version of the OS but only supporting 1 language. This can be Indian, Thai, Chinese, German, French, etc. etc. Just strip away the possibility of adding another language to the OS and you're set! I'm not saying it shouldn't display different languages on different websites and programs, but the core functionality like help files, file menus, program menu, settings and configurations, can only display 1 language. If so, the market for the multi-language version won't go and purchase the cheaper versions from country X given that there it only supports 1 language now, and most likely not english.
You can sell the 1 language version all you want. What you'll end up doing is selling to the market where people speak the same language. I understand multiple countries sometimes speak the same language (ie most of s. america and spain) and their versions might be compatible. maybe someone has a suggestion to improve upon this or why this won't work.
HD Trailers
So many of you are missing the point. These restrictions are specifically limit who will be interested in this version of Windows. They want to limt it, that is the whole point!
1. No one is going to *get it home and find out it does not work and not be able to return it*. It is only being sold pre-installed.
2. They do not care if coporate users can't run it, it is not intended for them!
3. Yes, this WILL prevent a lot of users with newer computers from using it. That is the whole point!
4. NO, this is not MS flexing its monopoly powers. It is perfectly normal to have different products with different feature sets at different prices. You can see it in other software (Light versions, vs Pro versions etc.) and in other markets. How many different versions of a specific brand of fridge can you buy? You want more features, you pay more.
5. No, you can't drop in a new mother board and use the same copy of the os, it is licenced only on the hardware it came with.
If you don't like any of the above, run LINUX.
Jorgie
"This Pentium4/Athlon decision makes perfect sense - if someone can afford the higher-end processor, they can afford the higher priced OS." What about donated P4/Athlon systems? You may not be able to buy them, but somebody gave you one. Now you have 2 choices, run linux(or *BSD, whatever) or steal windows.
I am sure there will be channels for upgrading, they are, of course, a business. Why the mindless hate when Microsoft does something to reduce prices for emerging markets?
How is that really any different to writing the data to any other filesystem?
If the nvram ends up corrupted, it's no big deal. If the filesystem, or a critical file on it, ends up in an incosistent state, you're in deep shit.
Starter edition is targeted towards developing countrise and computers with lows specs. Plus MS is not making newarly the money that they hoped for on starter edition. So wellome to Microfag and if you plan on doing any hacks you should know that this is equivalent to getting an illegal version only you pay for this one and it is highly stripped down. So it's your choise but if you don't have money for Windows XP there is alwas linux and it may actually work better on your aging machine.
A year or so ago, I was head of IT for a mid-sized company.
... unfortunately, Fry's had no such animal at the time.
We had a PC break down and it was owned by a crucial person within the company, who needed a replacement NOW.
So I went to Fry's and purchased a very nice Sony VAIO PC right off the shelf so she could have it NOW.
Imagine my horror when I realized that Windows XP Home, included with that computer, would not interface with our Windows domain. I had to upgrade the computer to XP Pro for $159 from Fry's.
That's one of what I'm sure are many traps that prevent companies from buying XP Home. And yes, it would have been much cheaper for me to buy a machine with XP Pro preinstalled
Now I'm a Mac-based multimedia developer and haven't used a Windows machine in six months. If I never use another one it will be way too soon, etc.
D
Keep it up Microsoft, you are well on your way to becoming a real P.I.T.A.
Microsoft, the E-CockTease in software.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Marketing person #1: You know, we have a real problem with piracy in developing nations.
Marketing person #2: Why is that?
Marketing person #1: I'm not sure. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that our OS costs more then most families make in a month.
Marketing person #2: If they're poor, why do we even want them as customers?
Marketing person #1: Because they're probably not going to be poor forever. Plus, there's like a billion people in India alone.
Marketing person #2: A billion? Please, we're professionals here. Stop making up numbers like "billion" or "gazillion".
Marketing person #1: Sorry about that. But there *are* lots and lots of people there. I think most of them do tech support for Dell computers for like a dollar a day.
Marketing person #2: Wow. That is a lot. Well, we have to figure out a way to make money off them.
Marketing person #1: I just got a great idea! Let's strip out some of the functions of our operating system and sell it really, really cheap over there.
Marketing person #2: Awesome idea, dude. We can call it "Windows Jr."
Marketing person #1: I don't know about that name... it sounds too much like IBM's PC Jr. and nobody liked that product. I mean, wireless keyboards? What kind of crazy person would want that?
Marketing person #2: The PC jr? That was released like a gazillion years ago. What are you, 30 or something?
Marketing person #1: Shhhh!!! I'm 31, but the boss thinks I'm 23.
Marketing person #2: I'll keep my mouth shut if you buy us drinks after work, old man. How about we call it "Windows XP: The Revenge of the Sith". Wait, no, even better, "Windows XP: The Starter Edition"
Marketing person #1: That's way better! I would have never thought of that on my own. I guess it's because I'm so old.
Marketing person #2: I see a problem though. How can we strip down a product when 95% of our users never use the extras we bundle with Windows to begin with?
Marketing person #1: We could pull out Internet Expolorer
Both: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Marketing person #2: That's rich old man. But seriously, how can we do it?
Marketing person #1: We can make sure it only runs on obsolete computers.
Marketing person #2: Of course!! Celerons, Durons... poor people use those, right?
Marketing person #1: Heck if I know. I'm not poor.
Marketing person #2: Then it's settled. We'll make a version of Windows XP, remove the "calculator" and "MS paint" applications, and sell it to poor people. We can even market it as an upgrade to Windows ME.
Marketing person #1: Didn't you get the memo? We want people to use ME. That was one of the clauses with Gates' contract with the devil.
Marketing person #2: Whatever. Let's go to the bar.
The Internet is generally stupid
Yeah, it's definitely worth the extra $100.
to the disk space reserved for swap?
I assume it won't allow multiple processors eh? Damn, guess I have to put that Quad Pentium Pro server back in the closet :|
Miscalculated.
Let's see...they're making Windows POS Edition not run on any Athlon or Pentium 4, and only those two processors.
It says nothing about the Sempron or Pentium M. Socket-754 Semprons are roughly as powerful as Athlon XPs, and Pentium Ms beat the hell out of Pentium 4s. Yet, they're more worried about keeping a out a group of processors that include the original 500 MHz Athlon and the shitty Prescott.
It's bad enough that they're trying to lock out high-end processors (which is sickening and deplorable). It's laughable that they're not locking out processors that are just as good as the ones they're locking out.
I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
I have a whole garage full of PIIs, that run XP just fine.
-Palal
'nuff said.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Microsoft has released or will release versions of Starter Edition for Brazil, Malaysia, Russia, Indonesia, Thailand and India. These are some of the fastest-growing PC markets in the world, and the software is designed to make it easier for ordinary people in these markets to learn about computing.
Most of those seem to do just fine with bootleg WinXP Pro.
-Palal
I imagine it will just be a matter of time before someone figures out how to diable this - find the bit of machine code that does the check, and modify it to skip it. Just guessing here, but it might be best done at the point in the Windows install process just after the files have been copied from CD to disk, and before the OS has booted for the first time.
Would developing a fix like this be legal ? Would it be illegal in some countries, but legal in others ?
If someone developed a fix like this somewhere where it was legal to do so, then posted a utility on the web that did the fix, and I downloaded it, could I legally use it ?
Any lawyers like to comment on this ?
Pentium 4 and Athlon ...
So you take your computer and never change the software.....I hope it runs for a long time without crashing "whoop dee dooo".
I'd like to see 10 'experts' in their os'es set up secure servers and see how long these servers run without crashing. I am certain that windows would fare far better then windows uptime commonly is.
The fact is that windows users f%&k around with their pc's adding any of 100,000's of application, uninstalling, doing whatever they want without worrying about backing up and what not. You do that on a linux box and see how stable it is after 6 months abuse.
IT was this crap in the first place of Microsoft crippling VisualC++ and WindowsNT that drove me to Linux in 1998. I was on a shoe string budget and wanted to learn gaming and graphics programing without a crippled compiler.
Instead of having MS tell me what to do on my own computer and decide for me how much I should pay if I could afford X, I gave him the finger and decided for myself what I needed. I do not agree with RMS and some of his radical views of free software but I do agree it gives the user and community freedom that is not available with commercial software.
I suggest these users who are dirt poor in the third world to do the same. If they can afford such nice rigs on such a low budget then MS should not come in and demand more. They should use Free operating systems instead and not deal with this crap.
http://saveie6.com/
A black screen does hide the flaws of MS software, but so what? The people that would buy these systems (stores, public transit, government offices, etc.) are not in the business of publicizing software flaws. They want the computer to display relevant information and if it crashes, then a black screen is more attractive than a BSOD.
Phiwum's law: anyone that names an obvious law after himself and then puts it in his own sig is just pathetic.
When a machine is in the 'panic' state writing to the local disks, or sending stuff across the network isn't usually feasible. (True some people have done it but its a hard problem - because you can't actually rely upon the kernel to do anything correctly when it's mid-panic).
Other have pointed out that Mac OS X can save panic info to NVRAM or send it to a panic server.
It's also possible to remotely attach to the paniced machine and run gdb on it.
Apple makes available a KernelDebugKit that contains debug versions of the kernel and drivers containing full symbolic info, and useful gdb macros, such as "showallstacks" which gives a complete stack dump of all kernel threads.
Much more useful than a BSOD containing some short cryptic message.
You have to have a MCSE or Service Contract.
Your Average Joe
Don't forget Tablet Edition.
Why would anybody use this crippled OS over Linux?
Linux costs less.
Linux does more.
It's that simple!
"Linux does more" can not be said of the real OS, but the crippled OS? Hahah. It's a joke and the sales numbers prove it.
What they really need to do is lower the cost of Windows.
Microsoft is continuing a legacy, a legacy that dates back at least to the days of windoze 3. Remember how it would not install if it found the computer was running (shreik) DR-dos?
- Just more intentional brokenness from micro$oft!
Don't they have enough brokenness that they need not put any in intentionally?there is people on here talking out their asshole about windows not getting a fair go, and "what if linux was a desktop" well wake up. lots of us use oss desktops and they don't fall apart like windows does. it's a fact, deal with it, get some help, something, anything to stop your stupid slashdot posts. windows deserves the hard time it gets.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
"Windows XP Starter Edition is designed for beginner home computer users who are seeking a more affordable computing solution for their homes. As such, it is designed for low-cost, entry-level desktop PCs running value-based processors," a representative for Microsoft said in an e-mail.
The parts they left out were, "Microsoft operating systems are not designed for security, performance or anything really. We buy things and sell them to suck your money. Now give it up, bitch!"
Well, it's not really that bad but it's close.
Because of that, Starter Edition is an excellent introduction to the world of Microsoft. It's not that they won't port to another platform, so that they might really have an affordable system, it's that they can't really. They sort of have a crippled version for powerPC, xbox. They kind of have a crippled version for arm, Wince and friends. They tried to make a version for Alpha and failed. One day, real soon they swear, they might have a version for Athlon 64 with DRM, Paladium and other bigger badder restrictions. The only thing that's consistent between their versions is that none of them work very well and have silly limits. Starter edition is an excellent introduction to those kinds of arbitrary limits and attitude.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
They check to make sure that it doesn't run on P4 and Athlon, and the design (=resource hogging) of the operating system and common applications ensures that users wouldn't want to run it on anything else.
You'll need an old computer (is anyone making P3 systems anymore?) to run this crippled operating system. As a computer gets older, generally speaking, it gets less reliable.
Windows crashes frequently, even when not crippled.
Uh... anyone see a pattern here?
On the upside, an old computer probably has an old monitor so the crippled version of Windows' 800x600 video display limitation probably won't matter either...
-Aaron-
You just have the base editions in each country locked to that countries language.
So the MS India editon only has Indian language options, say the top half dozen.
Sure English only software could be loaded & English documents viewed, but things like the OS (& it's utilities)in some foreign language & programs that self adjust to the OS's default language will piss off English speaking cheapskates no end.
I remember when on some bloody computer every Nvdia driver I downloaded would have it's installer automatically reset the dialogues & buttons into bloody Cyrilic Russian for some reason. Really pissed me off, & the computer has it's region settings as Australia with just US keyboard defaults & nothing else... Eventually I worked out that some setting for non-unicode languages had somehow ended up set to Russian in the past.
Yeah, because international bystanders will be really frustrated if they can't understand the error messages on an airport screen. But if they can understand them, they'll be able to help out so much
From my understand Semprons are the same as the older Athlons (maybe manufactured on a smaller process) but with different CPUIDs as Semprons, for the budget market.
So maybe the Windows Starter Edition accepts Duron & Sempron IDs.
Wow, somebody forget their Ritalin today, or what?
IIRC DELL sells their computers with freedos if you ask for it?
Flamebait perhaps, but he's on the money about installing video drivers.
of course, when the processor is out of control. (As in the moments before a xSOD.)
And, yeah, I can't tell my left from my right, either.
(Migi? Hidari? Iya, Hilary janeyah. MUGI!)
I'm more curious about what the chip manufacturers may have to say about this. Would they have a legal case to stand on against Microsoft doing this? Would they want to?
I know it's in another country, but nonetheless, wouldn't it still negatively impact Intel's and AMD's markets in India in one way or another, in a potentially anti-competitive way even if Microsoft aren't themselves chipmakers?
Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
1) Buy new computer.
2) Upgrade processor.
3) Boot. Or not.
Possible scenario?
Obviously, they did it for the warm, fuzzy feeling in their hearts.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
How about when they do it to establish an overwhelming monopoly in those emerging markets, in order to have a firmer stranglehold and better capitalize on their future success?
:rolleyes:
Obviously, they did it for the warm, fuzzy feeling in their hearts.
No, they did it to make money and stay viable in an ever changing world. So, again, what part of them offering a stripped down product as a discount is a problem? Oh, the monopoly possibility.
Okay, if there isn't a monopoly, who's going to supply them with desktop software? Do you really think Linux will be the standard OS of the third world? Why? If non-geeks in the rich areas of the world aren't running it, then what makes you think these emerging markets will want to use it any more than your girlfriend, grandfather, or nephew?
Nothing any company does is for "warm, fuzzy feelings". To even bring it up shows no objective thinking at work, only repitition of previous adolescent mutterings.
they should just continue down the list of processors until there are none left.
this could be their finest contribution to computing...by leaving.
Or the same as SQL server not using more then two gigs of ram unless you upgrade to enterprise edition. The odd thing is that people pay per processor for that bit of crippleware.
evil is as evil does
Back in the late 80's http://www.belfastcityairport.com/ used to run their arrivals/departures information using an Amstrad CPC464 coded in BASIC http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?s t=1&c=84/ the only reason I knew was that it crashed one day and recognised the error screen.
Jonathan
Mobile, Embedded, Professional, Home, Starter, Handheld, Server Web, Server Standard, Server Enterprise (2003), Server DataCenter, Server Small Business, Tablet, Media Center, Server Advanced (2000), and.... XBox. Almost forgot X-Box.
Is that all, or are there more fragments?
A very good idea with just one minor problem; MicroSoft would have to admit that there was a real need for custom BSOD's; they'd be admitting Windows crashes more often that it should.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
What you call informative, I call frustrating, confusing and uninformative. It does absolutely no good for more than 99% og the users and have contributed to making Windows a big joke.
Now, the crashing of the Mac is how it should be done. A screen saying, in 6 languages, that the system has experienced a non-recoverable error and must be rebooted. And here's how you reboot.
The other 1% that actually understand what would be on a windows bluescreen of death on the Mac, can go to NVRAM and check out the message. Even before the machine boots again.
I sure as hell belong to the 99%.
It's the same as having MSDE being a crippled SQLServer that limits the nubmer of threads it can run. Surely the CPU could handle more threads; but they cripple it so that more people buy the bigger one.
That's because MSDE is avaliable for free download, and is intended to allow developers to have a free copy of SQL Server to develop against. It's not meant to be used in production; you're supposed to pay for that.
I really don't see the problem - if you want to use SQL Server, you pay for it. No-one's trying to trick you. It's not like you can only buy hardware that only runs Windows, and Windows will only run MS's RDBMS. You do have a choice.
It's not a quetion of it being crippled so that "people buy the bigger one" - it's crippled so people don't try to use it instead of paying for SQL Server.
If anything, it reduces the cost of developing against SQL Server, as you don't have to have a full SQL Server licence to start coding, just to move into production.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
This is because all following versions of Windows XP are intended to run only on the G5 processor (the same one used in modern Macintosh computers). By checking the CPUID, Microsoft is making sure that you don't try to execute the G5 code on the incompatible and totally different x86 platform, which cannot execute G5 code.
It is a smart business decision to make sure that your customers don't try to run your binaries on the wrong hardware platform.
This move is perfect for any linux distro over there. Please get them to corrupt some officials to make piracy even more criminal. Unlike popular belief, people in developing countries are not unable to think for themselves. Shops selling computers will think again before they put pirated windows on their products. Linux fits the bill much better (free install on all systems you sell) than windows (way to expensive) or cripple-windows(it's crippled).
The more MS wants to rake in the money and uses their evil way to do so, the more people will consider Linux as a very good alternative. So please go right ahead Bill!
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
Yes, it makes Microsoft/Windows look better than it really is,
;o)
I totally agree with you, that is why my Window's box monitor is always turned off... it looks soooo pretty like that
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Is the "Non-Starter" edition the one without the start button?
what does this do for the rest of us?
Tech Public Policy stuff
How much more crippled can this OS get?
Will it only install on a 1GB hard disk, only network via a null-modem cable, only run 16-bit apps?
Why don't they just give away Windows 3.11 instead.
What type of CPU do those emulators emulate? And OSX's VirtualPC of course too...
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
Ooh, that's not cool.
Bad Microsoft, bad!
No treat for you.
What's that behind your back, all of India's limited cash supplies? Give it back . . . come on, give it back.
Coredumps and crash-data are an useful information to make solutions for the kernel, so... what can we expect from M$, making kernels with syscalls to its browser...
I never think in Windows in terms of UNIX substitution OS; it's a toy, with many games and too many beautiful colors to display.
The "Minidump" is in C:\Windows\Minidump and is a .DMP file. It's just a dump of what was in the memory at the time, which is great for solving driver issues (if you don't mind reinstalling XP hundreds of times with only 1 driver in to see whether it was loaded into the memory at the time of the crash)
You're really gutted when it turns out it was just bad RAM after your 17th install...
My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)
Windows XP Starter Edition is meant for DEVELOPING 3rd world COUNTRIES - people that have NEVER USED A MOUSE BEFORE.
It only makes sense that it would have limited functionality because it is designed to teach those with no exposure whatsoever to computers how to use one.
If you think of it in this context, it makes great sense.
I write applications that work with a local database or across the network to SQL server. Previously I'd use MSDAC / ODBC to access either. Unfortunately, MS Access is very long in the tooth and doesn't support stored procedures. So you have to litter your code with lots of SQL. Then you must work around any differences that exist between Access & SQL server, maintaining two code paths or restricting yourself to a common subset of functionality.
With MSDE it's different. It is SQL server. It means that I can write stored procedures that work in either mode and I can remove all that dodgy SQL from the client app. There is little difference codewise except where the DSN points at. Oh and SQL server is much, much better than MS Access.
What does Microsoft get out of it? Consistency, scalability - apps written to MSDE scale up much better than apps written to Access. That means more sales for them.
Personally I'd like to see every DB company do it. Hell, even PostgresSQL 8.0 for Win32 is pretty close to acting like MSDE dataengine already. If it also shipped in a smaller, restributable form sans the pgAdmin GUI tool and documentation it would be pretty nice indeed. They might even steal a few away from going the MSDE -> SQL Server route.
Oooh, dear Microsoft, this is so nice! Please do get so very much pissy with processor manufacturers and their customers.
MS trying to pull their usual strategy in the open and free for all PC hardware market (that brought them up in the first place). It's so very much gonna blow up in their face if they're serious about this. I hope so.
This is great news.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
One of these days, one of these systems is going to get hacked and something truly embarrassing is going to be displayed on all of those big displays.
All your base are belong to us.
:n
RTFM n00b.
http://f0dder.reteam.org/amdp4.htm
Well, perhaps not so good, but it can be done.
VPS-like shared hosting, on under-crowded servers.
WE've seen it all MS is a racist software!
Seriously at what point do you have to run something wonderful for ordinary office desktop apps like SOT/LBA FC3? How much pain are you willing to suffer?
You are probably having low load times from all of us downloading all of the images on his / directory. Check out pornzilla's "linked images" bookmark-- it works really well!
i know that its meant to be a joke, but on a serious note, that much too easy to bypass... even for an idiot user
I am very sucseptible to "let's have another drink"
<--- 1989, Grandpa
M$ has just re-introduced the good old fashioned colonialism.
Starter edition is aimed at the cheapskate home user not a business... Businesses use XP Pro and it works with any x86 CPU.
And what you call "informative", I call "redundant".
Run that by me again. Marketing made a decision that XP Starter Edition... shouldn't start?
(head explodes)
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
OK, you say it's too bulky? Then we'll make a special version for you.
Here it is! Buy it! No, wait, not you or you...or you...
What kind of silliness is this? A crippled, stripped-down OS? Why not just make it Shareware.
"Warning: P4 support will end in 3 Days. Buy upgrade now?"
This is the hook snagging the consumer fish.
Whenever you read this sig someone's refrigerator light turns on.
Yeah, that's what surprises me the most. Being able to charge $4000 for the deliberatelly broken version of a software package is amazing.
I think the phrase we're looking for is "controlled flight into terrain". This suggests pilot, AKA user, error instead of hardware error.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
You can buy something like this off the self. It's a watchdog board. Goes in a PCI slot. Software deamon sends a "ping" to the board every second or so if the board fails to "see" a ping after so many seconds it does a hardware reset of the machine. These are commonly used in computers controling realtime processes. I've never seen one used under Windows but I asume _most_ are.
And you can even create a software one built into your timer interrupt... perfect for software-mitigated freezes/crashes
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
haven't received reports on?
It's not the times it works I'm worried about.
On the other hand, "works well enough to sell this year" has been Microsoft's motto for a long time.
{shrug/}