"But, when movies are illegally downloaded from the Internet, these are the people that suffer the most.
It's the woman who does the make-up,
the guy who rigs the lighting,
the sound technician,
the costume designer,
the set decorator
and the caterer.
Do you really want these people to lose their jobs?"
BULL-[censored by the MPAA]!!!
99 percent of the movie pirating that's done is done long after the film has received it's
peak revenue in the theater. And if you haven't noticed, movies are still setting
highest records for the highest revenue per week/weekend.
Since most of the pirating is done after the movie is finished in the theaters,
the only place where they might get hurt is in DVD/VHS sales.
Last time I checked, the technicians, grips and caterers didn't receive ANY royalties for DVD sales.
So basically what they're saying is that the extras, grips, caterers, technicians, personal whores and hired monkies
will get fired if they lose a few bucks on the "extra" millions of dollars they make after the movie
has left the theaters.
How about if they just cut the actor's or producer's or director's or executive producer's
salaries by what... 10 million?
That should cover EVERY OTHER PERSON WORKING ON THE MOVIE.
"My friend's company" actually made an attempt to outsource a (web) project to "another country" and after waiting too long for the code, and a few unanswered international phone calls and emails we finally
got the code we were waiting for.
It was crap.
You want to pay someone $2 an hour (~4K/year) to make crappy web code?
Find yourself a high school kid.
Or a poor college geek with no life.
At least at that point they are right around the corner,
and they can actually come on-site and fix any problems.
And if they end up being really good and writing some good apps for you,
you're investing in your future as they may end up working full time for you
or at least being a good IT contact when they get out of school.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
As my pappy always said: "If someone's giving away diamond rings for 50 cents a piece,
chances are... they ain't worth 50 cents."
You want to send GM plants to Mexico?
Try to get someone down there to work a 50 hour week.
If they really want to battle with Microsoft's infamous marketing machine they'd better make friends with some of the bigger bullies on the block.
Really, all of the cool technology (voice recognition, programming home appliances, etc) exists already in X-10 and other implementations. It's all just a matter of how much time and money you want to spend to create a system you want.
I don't know how everybody can complain about the cartoons being any better
when we were kids. Haven't you tuned in lately?
They are the SAME CARTOONS!!
- He Man
- GI Joe
- Transformers
- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
- Care Bears
- Scooby Doo
- Voltron (aka Power Rangers)
Plus if you count Batman, Superman and The Justice League,
they are all FAR better than the old Super Friends and the
crappy live action Batman.
We are just going to have to keep importing our cartoons from Japan.
Kids a few years ago were all Pokemon freaks anyways,
and now those kids have graduated to be Yu-Gi-Oh freaks.
Not to mention all of the Pokemon clones: Digimon, Food-o-mon??(That food wars one)
And if you want life lessons and good/evil shows, check out Ultimate Muscle.
People have been predicting the end of MS BASIC
since the days of 10 PRINT "HELLO"
But you know what?
While Pascal, C, C++, Perl, LISP, Java and
all the other languages have been sipping tea in high OOP geek
society chatting about their superiority over it,
BASIC has undergone the most evolution of any language.
Not evolution of IDEs and libraries, but actual evolution of the syntax,
operation, compilation, OOP methodologies, interoperabilities, inheritance,
polymorphism, threading, (insert your favorite programming buzzword here).
BASIC gave way to QuickBasic, which gave way to VB1,2,3,4,5,6,7(.NET) with simple changes in some versions, and extreme changes in others.
I've programmed in plenty of languages:
Assembly (SPARC-RISC, INTEL-CISC), BASIC, C, C++, COLDFUSION (If you can call it programming),
FORTRAN, J++, Java, JavaScript, Pascal, PHP, PLC, MSSQL (Stored Procs, etc), VB3, 4, 5, 6, 7.NET,
VBScript (Yuck), not to mention far too many proprietary languages that thankfully died along
the way.
And I can say with confidence that the most improved, from inception to present
is Visual Basic.
Even if you were to start VB off at QuickBasic or VB3,
they still have made the most improvements to the language itself.
Now I'm not going to get up on any high horse and say that VB will be the language
of the future that handles all of the flying cars or whatnot.
But I will say that
the precedent in the computing world is: Evolve or die.
Texas Instruments once had a powerful computing platform (TI99/4A) and then chose
not to continue developing any more personal computers. The DEC VAX was hailed as a wonderful OS. It's now been purchased by HPaq and discarded.
Dead languages litter the floor of every university: FORTRAN, COBOL, Pascal,
Java^H^H^H^H
VB.NET still has some problems, but every version of BASIC has fewer problems and more
functionality than the last.
Microsoft may win in the end, simply because
they're not afraid to change the language they own, and they don't have to argue with anyone else whenever they want to change it.
The president defending the students??
How uncharacteristic of the university's administration!
I went to Tech for (several) years, and the administration
constantly ignored complaints and requests from the students.
I think the only reason the University had the student government
and took opinion polls was so that they could do the exact opposite
of what the students wanted.
On a side note, the RIAA may have sh!t in the wrong backyard by pissing
off MTU prez Tompkins. If memory serves, he had some pretty close ties
to Ex-US prez Mr. Clinton.
When Hillary is president in 2004 maybe she'll declare them an unfair
monopoly and break them up into mini-RIAAs!
I do have to say that after going through years of DLL Hell,.Net has really fixed things up.
- You can finally overwrite DLLs, even if they are locked by IIS or anything else, primarily because of the Global Assembly Cache (GAC).
Basically it caches the DLL in memory, so any processes currently using a DLL keep using the old version until the references are destroyed and any new processes are given the new version.
Now granted you still have the problem of version compatibility, but I see that as more a responsibility of the developer to adhere to a good internal process for versioning.
- As far as projects go (EXE or Web Projects) the.Net development environment works a LOT better than it used to. You don't get permission denied every time you want to compile your DLLs so badly that you have to shut down all of VStudio just to get anything to work. And to refresh all of your references to their latest version... just click refresh! (What a concept)
For what they are talking about with versioning and separate lists of file versions, etc. etc... I just hear "Marketing marketing marketing blah blah blah."
You want to talk about versioning and storing lists of DLLs and handing applications the correct versions of things... check out: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT
Now check out HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID or HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TypeLib
Spend a few hours and try to figure out exactly how a COM application request figures out which binary file to instantiate. Now throw something like Transaction server in the mix and look again.
I've gotten my hands dirty enough in the registry, and I'd rather it didn't get a lot messier in there.
Many times at work when we talk about backup plans if anything were to ever happen to someone, and the phrase used is always...
Okay, suppose someone gets hit by a bus on the way to work tomorrow.
So now all emergency backup procedures are referenced as HBB.
When I was developing a web site, as sort of a joke I called my style sheet HolySheet.css.
As in "This is the Holy Style Sheet upon which all documents rely" and the obvious joke play on words to go with that.
Imagine my surprise when that document showed up with the most hits on the site usage reports! (Since it's used from every page)
Needless to say it was promptly changed.
I also once wrote (or started to write) a software delivery program I called Milkman.exe
The problem isn't that the PDA has too much crap in it
that you don't want, because everybody wants different things.
The problem is that you really can't pick what you want.
Sure, Sony offers several options for the Clie.
You can usually get one without the digital cam,
or with better attachments or whatever.
But having worked for years in both the manufacturing
and the computing world, Sony REALLY should be able to
customize each Clie to your specifications, automate
the entire process, and (most importantly) serialize
and store details for each order.
I personally want a color PDA with a nice digital camera,
good scientific calculator, (COME ON HP, YOU SHUT DOWN YOUR
CALCULATOR DIVISION, SO PUT ONE IN THE IPAQ FERCHRISSAKES!)
cell phone, universal remote (with powerful IR), GPS,
MP3 player, some sort of removable media (c-flash/mem stick/etc)
and a few other gadgets. I don't want Excel, Word, Visual Studio,
Paint, huge keyboard, etc.
I usually hear people complain that they don't want to put all of their
eggs in one basket, because then if that device fails they are screwed.
Well... I'm sick of carrying around 5 baskets. I've got anywhere from
2 to 7 devices that I have to lug around every day. Give me an all in
one universal "widget" that I can customize to what I do and don't
want, and I'll buy specialized items for the high quality stuff.
To reject integration of multiple devices altogether goes directly against most
technological developments over the last 20 years. The key really is to realize
that when it comes to a PDA, everyone wants different things, and companies need
to respect that. I want a universal device to do everything a "handheld" device
should do. Someone else wants a portable recording studio. Yet another person
wants a tiny portable PC with a good keyboard.
Build a PDA that can be built dynamically and easily with several different options
and you win the fight.
Just because a corporation is a monopoly doesn't mean they should be forced to distribute other corporation's products.
What about the added cost of recreating all the software CDs/DVDs?
Updating websites with Java driver information and troubleshooting?
Or the legal cost of re-drafting the EULA and other docs to include MS protection from Java security holes?
Are we going to force AOL to start shipping HotJava with their AOL CDs because they own Netscape?
Or as someone said below... CLR with Solaris? What about MSSQL ODBC drivers? DDE? OLEDB? COM? DCOM? COM+?
MS -does- make a version of IE for Solaris, shouldn't SUN now have to package that software?
I am not an MS monopoly supporter, but I think SUN is just being silly.
Well, since WMP9 doesn't even come with support for playing Ogg/vorbis stuff, it should be pretty much a no brainer.
Ogg sounds better and compresses smaller than MP3 and WMA, plus no copyright restrictions.
I'm more worried about my hearing getting trashed by cranking up the volume on my headphones than I am about the "neuroacoustics" that I can't "really" hear causing it to degrade.
Yeah, my dog even makes different barking sounds based on how close someone is to the house, how many people are approaching, etc.
This is nothing new, people have researched wolves in the wild (i.e. No human intervention, like Mr. Ape) and they exhibit similar communication abilities.
Gibson is a master.
I have enjoyed several of his books, but it sucks that even he is resorting to using 9/11 topics in his book.
Taken from his web site, an excerpt of "Pattern Recognition": Win Pollard, ex-security expert, probably ex-CIA, took a taxi in the direction of the World Trade Center on September 11 one year ago, and is presumed dead. Win taught Cayce a bit about the way agents work. She is still numb at his loss, and, as much for him as for any other reason, she refuses to give up this newly weird job, which will take her to Tokyo and on to Russia.
He came up with awesome future topics back in the 80s fer chrissakes. Couldn't he just leave 9/11 alone??
As the son of a high school computer teacher, I know that Macintosh makes really great offers to elementary and high schools for Mac computers.
A whole lot of schools pick them up, and kids
learn Macs in school.
Then they go to college and buy a Windows box.
Just because the school is adopting an OS doesn't mean businesses or consumers will,
it just means more business for Linux admins in Denmark schools.
Heck, they have Unix boxes at my old college, and only.001 percent
of the student population used *nix boxes in their dorm/house.
The
Quaoarian
people know that we have spotted their planet,
and now they are attacking us with their fireball launchers
before we realize their hostile intentions!
Too bad X-Files
has been cancelled, now we're all screwed!
Unfortunately I was hoping the act would cover: "It's ok for consumer's to copy and trade music because the record companies
have been overcharging people for years."
It's a good thing to update the DMCA, but it would be really nice if it covered the
whole playing field, not just restrictions on digital practices.
Looking back on the recording companies illegal practices of MAP (Minimum Advertised Price)
that they've been doing for years, this article
states: "The FTC estimates that U.S. consumers may have paid as much as $480 million
more than they should have for CDs and other music because of these policies over the last three years."
Considering that this was brought to court in 2000, you can probably tack on another
(480 million / 3 years) * 2 years = $320 million
So basically the RIAA owes you and me about $800 million.
Considering that they say they've lost $600 million in record sales because of digital piracy,
and they are being fined another $143 million for MAP, they just owe us another $57 million
dollars and we can call it even.
Slashdot Mirror
From the mentioned website:
"But, when movies are illegally downloaded from the Internet, these are the people that suffer the most.
It's the woman who does the make-up,
the guy who rigs the lighting,
the sound technician,
the costume designer,
the set decorator
and the caterer.
Do you really want these people to lose their jobs?"
BULL-[censored by the MPAA]!!!
99 percent of the movie pirating that's done is done long after the film has received it's peak revenue in the theater. And if you haven't noticed, movies are still setting highest records for the highest revenue per week/weekend.
Since most of the pirating is done after the movie is finished in the theaters, the only place where they might get hurt is in DVD/VHS sales.
Last time I checked, the technicians, grips and caterers didn't receive ANY royalties for DVD sales.
So basically what they're saying is that the extras, grips, caterers, technicians, personal whores and hired monkies will get fired if they lose a few bucks on the "extra" millions of dollars they make after the movie has left the theaters.
How about if they just cut the actor's or producer's or director's or executive producer's salaries by what... 10 million?
That should cover EVERY OTHER PERSON WORKING ON THE MOVIE.
Some people have already adopted the idea!
See the evidence!
"My friend's company" actually made an attempt to outsource a (web) project to "another country" and after waiting too long for the code, and a few unanswered international phone calls and emails we finally got the code we were waiting for.
It was crap.
You want to pay someone $2 an hour (~4K/year) to make crappy web code?
Find yourself a high school kid.
Or a poor college geek with no life.
At least at that point they are right around the corner, and they can actually come on-site and fix any problems.
And if they end up being really good and writing some good apps for you, you're investing in your future as they may end up working full time for you or at least being a good IT contact when they get out of school.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
As my pappy always said:
"If someone's giving away diamond rings for 50 cents a piece, chances are... they ain't worth 50 cents."
You want to send GM plants to Mexico?
Try to get someone down there to work a 50 hour week.
Sun (Jini) and Microsoft (UPP) have been fighting over the consumer electronics arena for years.
CNN has an article on it
If they really want to battle with Microsoft's infamous marketing machine they'd better make friends with some of the bigger bullies on the block.
Really, all of the cool technology (voice recognition, programming home appliances, etc) exists already in X-10 and other implementations. It's all just a matter of how much time and money you want to spend to create a system you want.
For anybody who didn't get it... Comic Book Guy / The Aquaman Quote
This just in: .fr to .cesm
All primary worldwide DNS servers modify France's domain from
(SARCASM ref: Matt Groening)
I agree that this idea is on a larger scale than the SpeedPass, but Exxon/Mobil definitely owns the rights to the "proximity charge" idea.
That's why you don't see a BP/Amoco-pass yet, the patent is still in effect.
They'll probably just ask for a big royalty check and it'll be done.
I don't know how everybody can complain about the cartoons being any better when we were kids. Haven't you tuned in lately?
They are the SAME CARTOONS!!
- He Man
- GI Joe
- Transformers
- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
- Care Bears
- Scooby Doo
- Voltron (aka Power Rangers)
Plus if you count Batman, Superman and The Justice League, they are all FAR better than the old Super Friends and the crappy live action Batman.
We are just going to have to keep importing our cartoons from Japan.
Kids a few years ago were all Pokemon freaks anyways, and now those kids have graduated to be Yu-Gi-Oh freaks.
Not to mention all of the Pokemon clones: Digimon, Food-o-mon??(That food wars one)
And if you want life lessons and good/evil shows, check out Ultimate Muscle.
As for me and my house, we watch Static Shock
This gives new meaning to the term "Packet Sniffing"!
I think after the first time some drunk idiot pees on the keyboard they'll rethink their strategy.
Maybe they should install urinal game controllers instead.
SBC Patents Letters S, B and C.
mdrTao to pot new weite here:
http://lahdot.org/
New for Nerd. tuff that matter.
ill Gate of Mirooft announe plan to patent letter M.
People have been predicting the end of MS BASIC since the days of
10 PRINT "HELLO"
But you know what?
While Pascal, C, C++, Perl, LISP, Java and all the other languages have been sipping tea in high OOP geek society chatting about their superiority over it, BASIC has undergone the most evolution of any language.
Not evolution of IDEs and libraries, but actual evolution of the syntax, operation, compilation, OOP methodologies, interoperabilities, inheritance, polymorphism, threading, (insert your favorite programming buzzword here).
BASIC gave way to QuickBasic, which gave way to VB1,2,3,4,5,6,7(.NET) with simple changes in some versions, and extreme changes in others.
I've programmed in plenty of languages: Assembly (SPARC-RISC, INTEL-CISC), BASIC, C, C++, COLDFUSION (If you can call it programming), FORTRAN, J++, Java, JavaScript, Pascal, PHP, PLC, MSSQL (Stored Procs, etc), VB3, 4, 5, 6, 7.NET, VBScript (Yuck), not to mention far too many proprietary languages that thankfully died along the way.
And I can say with confidence that the most improved, from inception to present is Visual Basic.
Even if you were to start VB off at QuickBasic or VB3, they still have made the most improvements to the language itself.
Now I'm not going to get up on any high horse and say that VB will be the language of the future that handles all of the flying cars or whatnot.
But I will say that the precedent in the computing world is: Evolve or die.
Texas Instruments once had a powerful computing platform (TI99/4A) and then chose not to continue developing any more personal computers. The DEC VAX was hailed as a wonderful OS. It's now been purchased by HPaq and discarded. Dead languages litter the floor of every university: FORTRAN, COBOL, Pascal, Java^H^H^H^H
VB.NET still has some problems, but every version of BASIC has fewer problems and more functionality than the last.
Microsoft may win in the end, simply because they're not afraid to change the language they own, and they don't have to argue with anyone else whenever they want to change it.
The president defending the students??
How uncharacteristic of the university's administration!
I went to Tech for (several) years, and the administration
constantly ignored complaints and requests from the students.
I think the only reason the University had the student government
and took opinion polls was so that they could do the exact opposite
of what the students wanted.
On a side note, the RIAA may have sh!t in the wrong backyard by pissing
off MTU prez Tompkins. If memory serves, he had some pretty close ties
to Ex-US prez Mr. Clinton.
When Hillary is president in 2004 maybe she'll declare them an unfair
monopoly and break them up into mini-RIAAs!
I do have to say that after going through years of DLL Hell, .Net has really fixed things up.
.Net development environment works a LOT better than it used to. You don't get permission denied every time you want to compile your DLLs so badly that you have to shut down all of VStudio just to get anything to work. And to refresh all of your references to their latest version... just click refresh! (What a concept)
- You can finally overwrite DLLs, even if they are locked by IIS or anything else, primarily because of the Global Assembly Cache (GAC). Basically it caches the DLL in memory, so any processes currently using a DLL keep using the old version until the references are destroyed and any new processes are given the new version. Now granted you still have the problem of version compatibility, but I see that as more a responsibility of the developer to adhere to a good internal process for versioning.
- As far as projects go (EXE or Web Projects) the
For what they are talking about with versioning and separate lists of file versions, etc. etc... I just hear "Marketing marketing marketing blah blah blah."
You want to talk about versioning and storing lists of DLLs and handing applications the correct versions of things... check out: HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT
Now check out HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID or HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\TypeLib
Spend a few hours and try to figure out exactly how a COM application request figures out which binary file to instantiate. Now throw something like Transaction server in the mix and look again.
I've gotten my hands dirty enough in the registry, and I'd rather it didn't get a lot messier in there.
Many times at work when we talk about backup plans if anything were to ever happen to someone, and the phrase used is always...
Okay, suppose someone gets hit by a bus on the way to work tomorrow.
So now all emergency backup procedures are referenced as HBB.
When I was developing a web site, as sort of a joke I called my style sheet HolySheet.css.
As in "This is the Holy Style Sheet upon which all documents rely" and the obvious joke play on words to go with that.
Imagine my surprise when that document showed up with the most hits on the site usage reports! (Since it's used from every page)
Needless to say it was promptly changed.
I also once wrote (or started to write) a software delivery program I called Milkman.exe
As long as they mine the moon in the shape of a smiley face.
Because then world peace can't be far behind!!
Yeah... right!
Like reading a EULA has ever convinced someone to that they shouldn't install the software from the pirated CD they have.
I think MS should do usage statistics to determine how many people actually scroll down the EULA or just click Agree.
1 x 10^(-1000000)
The problem isn't that the PDA has too much crap in it that you don't want, because everybody wants different things. The problem is that you really can't pick what you want.
Sure, Sony offers several options for the Clie. You can usually get one without the digital cam, or with better attachments or whatever.
But having worked for years in both the manufacturing and the computing world, Sony REALLY should be able to customize each Clie to your specifications, automate the entire process, and (most importantly) serialize and store details for each order.
I personally want a color PDA with a nice digital camera, good scientific calculator,
(COME ON HP, YOU SHUT DOWN YOUR CALCULATOR DIVISION, SO PUT ONE IN THE IPAQ FERCHRISSAKES!)
cell phone, universal remote (with powerful IR), GPS, MP3 player, some sort of removable media (c-flash/mem stick/etc) and a few other gadgets. I don't want Excel, Word, Visual Studio, Paint, huge keyboard, etc.
I usually hear people complain that they don't want to put all of their eggs in one basket, because then if that device fails they are screwed. Well... I'm sick of carrying around 5 baskets. I've got anywhere from 2 to 7 devices that I have to lug around every day. Give me an all in one universal "widget" that I can customize to what I do and don't want, and I'll buy specialized items for the high quality stuff.
To reject integration of multiple devices altogether goes directly against most technological developments over the last 20 years. The key really is to realize that when it comes to a PDA, everyone wants different things, and companies need to respect that. I want a universal device to do everything a "handheld" device should do. Someone else wants a portable recording studio. Yet another person wants a tiny portable PC with a good keyboard.
Build a PDA that can be built dynamically and easily with several different options and you win the fight.
Just because a corporation is a monopoly doesn't mean they should be forced to distribute other corporation's products.
What about the added cost of recreating all the software CDs/DVDs?
Updating websites with Java driver information and troubleshooting?
Or the legal cost of re-drafting the EULA and other docs to include MS protection from Java security holes?
Are we going to force AOL to start shipping HotJava with their AOL CDs because they own Netscape?
Or as someone said below... CLR with Solaris? What about MSSQL ODBC drivers? DDE? OLEDB? COM? DCOM? COM+?
MS -does- make a version of IE for Solaris, shouldn't SUN now have to package that software?
I am not an MS monopoly supporter, but I think SUN is just being silly.
Well, since WMP9 doesn't even come with support for playing Ogg/vorbis stuff, it should be pretty much a no brainer.
Ogg sounds better and compresses smaller than MP3 and WMA, plus no copyright restrictions.
I'm more worried about my hearing getting trashed by cranking up the volume on my headphones than I am about the "neuroacoustics" that I can't "really" hear causing it to degrade.
Yeah, my dog even makes different barking sounds based on how close someone is to the house, how many people are approaching, etc.
This is nothing new, people have researched wolves in the wild (i.e. No human intervention, like Mr. Ape) and they exhibit similar communication abilities.
Gibson is a master.
I have enjoyed several of his books, but it sucks that even he is resorting to using 9/11 topics in his book.
Taken from his web site, an excerpt of "Pattern Recognition":
Win Pollard, ex-security expert, probably ex-CIA, took a taxi in the direction of the World Trade Center on September 11 one year ago, and is presumed dead. Win taught Cayce a bit about the way agents work. She is still numb at his loss, and, as much for him as for any other reason, she refuses to give up this newly weird job, which will take her to Tokyo and on to Russia.
He came up with awesome future topics back in the 80s fer chrissakes. Couldn't he just leave 9/11 alone??
As the son of a high school computer teacher, I know that Macintosh makes really great offers to elementary and high schools for Mac computers.
.001 percent
of the student population used *nix boxes in their dorm/house.
A whole lot of schools pick them up, and kids learn Macs in school.
Then they go to college and buy a Windows box.
Just because the school is adopting an OS doesn't mean businesses or consumers will, it just means more business for Linux admins in Denmark schools.
Heck, they have Unix boxes at my old college, and only
The Quaoarian people know that we have spotted their planet, and now they are attacking us with their fireball launchers before we realize their hostile intentions!
Too bad X-Files has been cancelled, now we're all screwed!
Unfortunately I was hoping the act would cover:
"It's ok for consumer's to copy and trade music because the record companies have been overcharging people for years."
It's a good thing to update the DMCA, but it would be really nice if it covered the whole playing field, not just restrictions on digital practices.
Looking back on the recording companies illegal practices of MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) that they've been doing for years, this article states:
"The FTC estimates that U.S. consumers may have paid as much as $480 million more than they should have for CDs and other music because of these policies over the last three years."
It is finally being settled, article here.
Considering that this was brought to court in 2000, you can probably tack on another
(480 million / 3 years) * 2 years = $320 million
So basically the RIAA owes you and me about $800 million.
Considering that they say they've lost $600 million in record sales because of digital piracy, and they are being fined another $143 million for MAP, they just owe us another $57 million dollars and we can call it even.