You are right about upgrading to XP, there is no "killer app"....but the original question was not totally about upgrading. Is was about using XP in Company X.
Upgrading from Win2k to WinXP is stupid. -- True
Upgrading from Win98/95 to WinXP is smart. -- True
Moving all desktops to Linux is stupid -- True
So what "killer app" does Linux bring to the plate for the average corporate desktop user?
Also, I was not saying the the users couldn't learn to use a Linux desktop, I just don't think it's worth the TIME (remember Time=Money) to retrain an IT staff of 40 and 1500 users (insert the numbers for your company here and see if it makes sence for you).
1. Keep working on Linux until it's as easy to use as Winders.
2. Get Exchange Server's Global Address Book to work as good on Linux as it does in Outlook on Windows. (ouch...that's gonna leave a mark)
3. Show IT Management and sell them on Linux
If you make it past step 3, then...
4. Retrain helpdesk staff to support Linux (oh, and by the way guys you still have to support Windows until we can replace them all.. have a nice day:-)
5. Retrain users to use the Linux apps which WILL be slightly different than the Windows apps.
6. Ah....finally....we save $300 on each machine and we all live happily ever after.
Oooops....management wants to know why we spent all that time and effort to save $300 on a $2400 laptop.
Do you think $300 a machine is worth the countless hours of retraining users that are perfectly happy with their current platform?
Sorry guys, but sometimes it's better to pay for stuff that works and users know. Retraining IT staff and users is not fun or cheap.
Good point on 'tweaking' Win2k out to be almost just like XP.
Also, I'm VERY VERY familiar with your AS/400 senario...we have three. Our users bitched and complained for 2 years when we started replacing dumb terminals with Winders PCs.
Users can learn to use different platforms (in 2 years time perhaps), but I have yet to see a real advantage of linux on the desktop.
So, let me get this right... You haven't had a chance to learn XP, but already you don't trust it. Hummmm??? You sound like my kids... "Dad I don't like broccoli"...how do you know you don't like it if you haven't tried it?
On another note. If you are going to start running Linux as the desktop OS for your users.... man I hope your users are a lot smarter than my stupid users.
You "Linux on the desktop" freaks fail to understand that ease of use is KEY on the desktop. Users are STUPID...this will not change. The only way to get Linux on the desktop is to make it VERY easy to use. Sorry, I hate to disappoint you, but it is NOT easy to use right now. Yes, it is good, and I, a techie, like it...but it's not good enough for the stupid user.
We use snap servers with their software to backup the workstations to the snap server's disk. It works pretty well...the snap servers are ~$500 for a 40 gig...they have much bigger unit for more $$$. Take a look.
Don't waste your time figuring out how to make this 100% secure. Use MAC Addresses to determine who should be on the network. If someone spoofs an address then you'll likely have a resident compaining that they can't get online...so you'll investigate it. It's not like they are going to be able to spoof the address forever and get free internet for life.
Also, 95% of the people won't be attempting to do this anyway. You're goal here is to make money and provide reasonable service, not secure the network.
Microsoft's product should not allow the password to be blank. I think is it is stupid that the software allows a blank password. It seems to me that the software company should be liable for damages in cases where the software allows blank passwords. It's just crazy!!!!!
Not a single one...hummm... I'm just wondering.... have you ever thought maybe you just don't know what the fuck you're doing. Maybe you're no good at computer stuff. Maybe you can't write a good resume or cover letter.
I don't mean to be so negative, but sometimes you have to step back and look at reality.
Go see a headhunter...they get you a job somewhere. It may suck, but money is money, eh?
their wallet...well maybe not. I say give them a hefty fine and make them fix the code in x days or they get fined again...and again...and again... After all, they should be happy to fix it because it's in the best interest of National Security.
Everything here is agreed....except that Army comment. DO NOT... I repeat.... DO NOT join the Army.
You'll be wishin' you went to college when you're "on call" 24x7 and your wife and kids are constantly complaining that you're never home. I know this doesn't seem like a big deal right now....but it will be.
I did not finish college... I started working for a local company installing networks, and I learned a lot while doing it. I then moved on to a corporation which has a local corp. office. I left there to work for a consulting firm in a near-by "big city".....but then I came back to the corp. IT job after a year. I'm 23 years old and I have a lot of great experience. I've never had a problem finding a job (knock on wood).
Now, here's what I suggest for you.
Go to school and get a CS degree. While your there intern for some kinda of Tech company or work for the schools IS/IT dept. This way you get "the man's" degree and you get real-world experience at the same time.
Later in life you'll be greatful that you have your degree to fall back on....like when you get bored with tech and decide to move on. Or when you want to move up the corp. ladder, but a degree is required for that sweet IT Director position that comes with a nice "$chuck o' change$".
Neil
If you can't be part of the solution, there's plenty of money to be made prolonging the problem.
Slashdot Mirror
Hummm.... how about a computer and micro-brewery in the same case.... That would be very interesting.
replying to your list
:)
1. Windows XP can too (except the note about old & slow ones)
2. I also know what's happening in XP and how to fix it.
3. Wow! I saved $300 on a $2500 laptop.
4. Same for WinXP if you setup the permissions properly.
5. Ever heard of McAfee?
6. Humm....that's a tough one...ahhh...well... Happiness for Bill and his boys
You are right about upgrading to XP, there is no "killer app"....but the original question was not totally about upgrading. Is was about using XP in Company X.
Upgrading from Win2k to WinXP is stupid. -- True
Upgrading from Win98/95 to WinXP is smart. -- True
Moving all desktops to Linux is stupid -- True
So what "killer app" does Linux bring to the plate for the average corporate desktop user?
Also, I was not saying the the users couldn't learn to use a Linux desktop, I just don't think it's worth the TIME (remember Time=Money) to retrain an IT staff of 40 and 1500 users (insert the numbers for your company here and see if it makes sence for you).
Now back to reallity....
:-)
1. Keep working on Linux until it's as easy to use as Winders.
2. Get Exchange Server's Global Address Book to work as good on Linux as it does in Outlook on Windows. (ouch...that's gonna leave a mark)
3. Show IT Management and sell them on Linux
If you make it past step 3, then...
4. Retrain helpdesk staff to support Linux (oh, and by the way guys you still have to support Windows until we can replace them all.. have a nice day
5. Retrain users to use the Linux apps which WILL be slightly different than the Windows apps.
6. Ah....finally....we save $300 on each machine and we all live happily ever after.
Oooops....management wants to know why we spent all that time and effort to save $300 on a $2400 laptop.
Do you think $300 a machine is worth the countless hours of retraining users that are perfectly happy with their current platform?
Sorry guys, but sometimes it's better to pay for stuff that works and users know. Retraining IT staff and users is not fun or cheap.
Good point on 'tweaking' Win2k out to be almost just like XP.
Also, I'm VERY VERY familiar with your AS/400 senario...we have three. Our users bitched and complained for 2 years when we started replacing dumb terminals with Winders PCs.
Users can learn to use different platforms (in 2 years time perhaps), but I have yet to see a real advantage of linux on the desktop.
My boss doesn't play video games....hummmm....
flash is the devil incarnate
Well he's obviously stupid....he's buying Linux.
It never fails...they find the dumbest person in the store to interview.
So, let me get this right... You haven't had a chance to learn XP, but already you don't trust it. Hummmm??? You sound like my kids... "Dad I don't like broccoli" ...how do you know you don't like it if you haven't tried it?
On another note. If you are going to start running Linux as the desktop OS for your users.... man I hope your users are a lot smarter than my stupid users.
You "Linux on the desktop" freaks fail to understand that ease of use is KEY on the desktop. Users are STUPID...this will not change. The only way to get Linux on the desktop is to make it VERY easy to use. Sorry, I hate to disappoint you, but it is NOT easy to use right now. Yes, it is good, and I, a techie, like it...but it's not good enough for the stupid user.
Where do you people come from? The article was obviously in reference to Win 2k Pro, NOT Server.
They are separate products, you know. One can be discontinued without the other.
Wake up!
I guess they are hoping people will read this and stop swapping...
We use snap servers with their software to backup the workstations to the snap server's disk. It works pretty well...the snap servers are ~$500 for a 40 gig...they have much bigger unit for more $$$. Take a look.
I think it's really neato :) I just love crashing stupid people's lame devices.
Having all your data accessible from all of your workstations is highly overrated. I think you should just delete all of your data and quit your job.
/. way too much.
You hang-out on
What's this new 820.11 protocol? :-)
Don't waste your time figuring out how to make this 100% secure. Use MAC Addresses to determine who should be on the network. If someone spoofs an address then you'll likely have a resident compaining that they can't get online...so you'll investigate it. It's not like they are going to be able to spoof the address forever and get free internet for life.
Also, 95% of the people won't be attempting to do this anyway. You're goal here is to make money and provide reasonable service, not secure the network.
I can't even bring myself to type it...
Microsoft's product should not allow the password to be blank. I think is it is stupid that the software allows a blank password. It seems to me that the software company should be liable for damages in cases where the software allows blank passwords. It's just crazy!!!!!
You mean there was curriculum??? Doh!
Which is more important:
a)Education or
b)Collecting tution money?
Not a single one...hummm... I'm just wondering.... have you ever thought maybe you just don't know what the fuck you're doing. Maybe you're no good at computer stuff. Maybe you can't write a good resume or cover letter.
I don't mean to be so negative, but sometimes you have to step back and look at reality.
Go see a headhunter...they get you a job somewhere. It may suck, but money is money, eh?
their wallet...well maybe not. I say give them a hefty fine and make them fix the code in x days or they get fined again...and again...and again... After all, they should be happy to fix it because it's in the best interest of National Security .
I'm a pretty hardcore starwars freak, but I thought Spider Man was better than AOTC. I think we should all go see them both again :)
Everything here is agreed....except that Army comment. DO NOT... I repeat.... DO NOT join the Army.
You'll be wishin' you went to college when you're "on call" 24x7 and your wife and kids are constantly complaining that you're never home. I know this doesn't seem like a big deal right now....but it will be.
I did not finish college... I started working for a local company installing networks, and I learned a lot while doing it. I then moved on to a corporation which has a local corp. office. I left there to work for a consulting firm in a near-by "big city".....but then I came back to the corp. IT job after a year. I'm 23 years old and I have a lot of great experience. I've never had a problem finding a job (knock on wood).
Now, here's what I suggest for you.
Go to school and get a CS degree. While your there intern for some kinda of Tech company or work for the schools IS/IT dept. This way you get "the man's" degree and you get real-world experience at the same time.
Later in life you'll be greatful that you have your degree to fall back on....like when you get bored with tech and decide to move on. Or when you want to move up the corp. ladder, but a degree is required for that sweet IT Director position that comes with a nice "$chuck o' change$".
Neil
If you can't be part of the solution, there's plenty of money to be made prolonging the problem.