Nowhere did I say something about whether that war was justified (from the Allied perspective) or whether the US should have stayed at home (yes and no)
Hmm, I should probably clarify that before the next patriot is trolling along. The yes and no are *two* answers to the *two* questions - the first whether it was justified the second whether the US should have stayed at home. But I also want to add that the US *did* stay at home while France and the Commonwealth fought the 3rd Reich until the last possible moment (i.e. when they were attacked themselves and even then did Germany declare war on the US and not vice versa). FDR had to fight for every little bit of help he gave to the Allies before that and Churchill had a reason to say that the US will always do the right thing after it's exhausted the alternatives.
It was about *civilian deaths*. The US killed probably close to 1 million *civilians* in bombings dropped over civilian targets.
Nowhere did I say something about whether that war was justified (from the Allied perspective) or whether the US should have stayed at home (yes and no) but most casualties from the bombing campaign occured in 1945 when victory was certain, the military usefulness of the bombings is highly debatable and the Allies didn't even try to use their bomber fleet to stop the Holocaust even though they had proof of it since mid 1944.
Why does the fact that Hitler was perhaps more evil than any human before or after mean that the means employed by his enemies have to be just? If I can't say the US did questionable things can't I say it about the USSR either?
You forgot the US. The bombing campaigns of WWII and Vietnam/Cambodia almost certainly killed more than 2 million people so it would be #4 on the list.
Of course for 3D, video and sound, 32bit precision is good enough and *if* programmers (a big if) manage to overcome the pain of 'parallel programming' then it could be a big success.
Most people here call it an IBM chip but if you look at the design it's clearly the successor of the PS2's EE. The EE, especially the vector units were/are a major PITA especially if you want to keep them busy. So imho (and I'm talking with all the authority of a semi-informed/. poster here) the reason Sony (and Toshiba but afaik they were more involved in the production and not the design of the Sony chips) got IBM on board was to reduce the pain of prallelizing programs. IBM has much more experience with OS and compilers especially on uncommon designs so I think the situation will improve compared to EE. (Another thing is that Sony probably has learned much from EE's mistakes and will remove the bottlenecks that have plagued the PS2)
I always thought the rumors were only the talk of people who didn't understand that the PPC core is only a very minor part of Cell.
But IMHO they've grown a lot more believable with Macworld. As someone pointed out you don't get Sony's president at your show just to present a camcorder you can already buy. Yes they're selling it in Apple Stores but that explanation seems kinda weak.
Not really, they wrote their own Objective C look-alike.
C++ is one of the most popular languages out there; to call it arcane just because you don't like it is unfair. Yes C++ offers lots of possibilities to screw things up but it's also one of the most powerful languages. If you do a C++ project it may be more important to think about the structure of the program before you start hacking and to be more careful about the details than with Java but KDE got that right (And a good IDE can help you immensely).
All I see when I read your posts is a disgruntled Debian zealot too lazy to come up with a better argument. We can argue about features, usability, speed, integration, clean design of the different code elements etc. but restarting flame wars about programming language and license that were settled years ago because both sides realized that they were stupid is a bit weak.
The kernel is written in C, Gnome in Objective C, KDE in C++; there's a reason all large-scale projects (correct me if I'm wrong but atm I can't think of any well known 2-3 million lines+ project in Java/C#) use "arcane" languages
And KDE is (L)GPL, Qt is GPL (among others) and it's been that way for years now I really don't see what you're talking about
For one thing, it could be used as a computer. I doubt the PSX was able to do the same.
An Apple][ can be used as a computer, a Gamecube can't. So the Apple is superior? It's a game console the question is how good is it for that purpose.
And the screenshots looked significantly worse than even the average PS1 game (I've not looked at the Edutainment software). Now there's of course the question what dedicated developers would have been able to do with a few years of experience with the platform but I don't see any evidence that it was better than a PS1
Considering it was released in 1995 and surpassed the Playstation in computing and graphical capabilities, it was definately ahead of its time, but miles behind decent marketing.
Any proof of that? The site that you link to offers nothing but some really bad comparison (the PS: good Pippin: better kind) and no actual game screenshots (at least I haven't found them). I don't really doubt you but I'd like to judge myself based on some meaningful specs and/or screenshots and videos
That's off by about factor 10. Sorry for causing any psychological harm by pointing out the insignificance of your nation but look at the bright side. Had you been right the USA would have about 50% of the world population and I don't think the rest of the world could survive that =)
The niche market of "full fletched PC that has to be smaller than a Shuttle". Big market I'm sure.
And be serious, unless Apple introduces a media-PC based on the Mini the next innovation for this product will be in about 3 years when they're gonna upgrade it to a G5. 2-3 years is their cycle with minimal upgrades in between.
I toyed with the idea of buying one. It's just as cute and slick as the new smaller PS2 (and I couldn't resist buying one of those) and would come with OSX but I'd need it as a router/server (in the hallway where it can be seen so size/look matters somewhat) and a better suited Shuttle (more RAM, more HD, SATA, no CDRW though, but I don't need one) comes 50 cheaper even if you take into account Apple's student prices. =(
All have hard drive?
No; Revolution won't have one, perhaps an expansion, XBox2 will have different versions, PS3 won't have one out-of-the-box but perhaps a small solid state memory
All use Blue Ray DVD?
I think Nintendo will keep their smaller disks, Sony will use Blu-Ray obviously and Microsoft will either use normal DVD (cost reasons, but I think they won't risk to lose this pissing contest as it's too easy to sway lay persons with this argument) or HD-DVD because they seem to be further along in terms of cheap drives.
Home entertaininment capability (MythTv like)?
Nintendo no, Sony and MS yes; both will use expansion discs/remotes/etc to rip you off
All run Linux?
No
DRM-disabled, I mean enabled?
What do you mean "DRM-enabled"? Copy protection? All consoles have used it for ages. DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray? Of course they'd never get a license otherwise.
Which one out first?
XBox2
Which one has highest first year sales?
PS3
Real name of X-Box next?
Xenon. It sounds shitty I can see the marketing guys eyes gleaming
X-Box ignored in Japan?
Yes. Let's face it. XBox is a console for sports and fps gamers. Some exceptions (KOTOR, DoA) but most XBox games seem to appeal to the college frat boy audience (No offense guys. If it makes you feel better I'll keep generalizing by calling the Gamecube a kiddie-console and PS2 catering to the wannabe gangster, driving master and 14-yr-old girl who's only played FFVII-X and thinks they're like the bestest games ever. Problem is, those audiences are more important in JP and the PAL territories than in the US and therefore I can't see XBox2 overtaking PS3 unless MS change their attitude and I don't think they will)
New console manufacturer enters market by 2010?
Major or minor? And to replace one of the existing or a joint-venture or whatever? I don't think there'll be a 4th successful console-"series". That includes that I don't believe anyone will replace Nintendo should they leave the market. But you'd have to be more specific and I'd have to think about it whether I forgot a potential candidate. Btw. successful means that it puts a dent into the worldwide market. I don't know about China-only consoles or small-but-profitable exotic Japanese products (Wonder Swan *cough*)
Existing manufacturer leaves market by 2010?
Depends on the next round. I can really see Nintendo leaving if the Revolution doesn't sell. MS really wants the living room audience so they'll probably stay. But I could see them switching to home entertainment if the XBox2 flops badly enough what I don't believe. Much will depend on their losses per unit sold. My guess: Sony stays, MS stays, Nintendo well I think they won't stay independent. I don't know whether it'll be a development joint-venture, rebranding of other consoles, slightly out-of-date consoles, being bought out by/supporting the consoles of MS (bad for them because they'd have to sell MS-branded consoles in Japan where they're traditionally strong and it'd probably hurt them) or Sony (Nintendo can hold a grudge for a long time).
Consoles were (at launch) massivly superior to the PC until the current generation. I remember all the weak attempts to get parallax scrolling (I think that's what it was called. Having more than one background scrolling at different speeds to achieve a pseudo-3D effect is what I mean) or smooth scrolling on the PC. And the original Playstation was a mean piece of hardware when it was released in 1994. Most of that was due to the fact that PCs had no 3D graphics cards at that time and the cpu had to do all the work.
Now PCs have catched up with the launch of the Voodoo and everything that's followed and the PS2 and especially the X-Box were actually rather underwhelming at launch. Not bad but not mindblowing cool either
As far as vetoing goes, isn't part of the move towards federalism to eliminate most vetos?
Yes but the constitution would at the same time drastically strengthen the position of the European Parliament and national parliaments. See here
It's not perfect because the national governments tried to retain as much power for the council as possible but it's better than the situation now because the EP could face the Council as an equal. (That doesn't automatically improve the situation of course. Because as the EP gets more powerful lobbying would intensify but one of the advantages of the EP is the high number of different parties. For effective lobbying you'd have to own influential MEPs from the major parties in at least a dozen EU countries because due to national rivalries party whips lack the influence they have in more homogenous environments)
Sounds interestings but a few things don't add up, more specifically if the Mini becomes Apple's media center the Minis you're purchasing today won't do:
1. I'm no expert on PowerPC performance so this is wild speculation based on GHz numbers but I would say the Mini is too close at the minimum necessary to play back HD AVC videos. I don't think it's powerful enough to guarantee uninterrupted playback
2. So you have a box without a HD burner (whether blu-ray or HD-DVD) and 40/80Gig disk space. Are you kidding? 700mb are not enough for a movie so we're talking about 2 CDs per movie, which won't be popular. Even if you cache on harddisk.
3. Now as a multimedia hub you'd have to calculate disk space for mp3s and basic home office (www, email etc) functionality. Say 10Gig audio files and 5Gig for OS, apps and related data. That leaves 25Gig on a 40Gig Mine, 60something on a 80Gig; space for less than 20 or 50 movies respectively and that at the minimum bitrate I'd call acceptable. Now the problem with that is that Apple would want to sell movies. There are more than enough reasons people are not going to buy at their store so they won't add to that by having their customers juggling with miniscule disk space
4. Now I think, actually I hope, that he has a point but if that's the case the Mini would be a test platform for the form factor more than for the actual media hub because we'd look at a drastically redesigned system (integrating dedicated en-/decoding chips and tv support is non-trivial and I don't even talk about the necessary software frontend) so Apple would dilute their product line if the design of the Mini was anything like the other system.
An additional problem would be that AFAIK the mini uses 2.5" disks; big 2.5" disks, the DVD burner and the necessary dedicated chips are going to make this one expensive toy at a time when Microsoft will roll out the XBox2 which is already hyped as an entertainment hub, is probably going to be similarily priced and can be used for playing games. All the while Sony will hype their Cell chip as the next big thing in digital entertainment talk about its super computer qualities and state that you can't export it to China because it would violate various restrictions for advanced weapons systems.
One of the big advantages of the iPod was that it entered the market when the major players didn't even know there was one and all competing products were by nobodies or lackluster.
Now unfortunatly your pages have exceeded their geocities bandwidth limit but let's assume the whole Tokamak thing was a big scam. You actually believe thousands of scientists around the world are working on a big conspiration with the goal to aquire the billions necessary to build ITER, then build it and then tell everyone sorry, nothing to see here?
Was it part of the McVeigh-UFO conspiracy also reported on your page before geocities axed it?
Fusion power research is known for bitter blood feuds and with nothing but some non-viewable jpgs on a geocities page (the google cache is accessible but it didn't cache the images) I see it as proof of Wikipedia's abilities of self-regulation that your change was reversed.
I didn't doubt that. I just said that even if the plugins show up in the extensions dialog (yes, I know, there's a difference between plugins and extensions but there shouldn't be at least on the GUI level) it seems like there's no way to deactivate one at first. Only if you know how open source (and other software, such crap is commonplace in MS stuff too) normally works you'll immediatly try right-clicking specific extensions
But if this asteroid is at a distance where we have even a theoretical possibility of doing something before it hits us you can only work in probabilities because even minimal (10^-somethingverybig) changes will have a major impact on its course. So we will have people talking about how it's not going to hit us and how the scientists falsified data to further their agenda and all that bs
Even worse the dialog (at least in RC1) that pops up has three big buttons none of which is disable. To conclude that there is no possibility to disable a plugin instead of trying right-clicking it isn't all that far-fetched.
I wouldn't be so sure. Microsoft's trying to cap the per-unit costs. Unless there is real demand for HD-DVD players by mid 2005 I assume the HD-DVD drive will have to go. With wmv it isn't really needed for cutscenes so its only raison-d'etre would be selling more consoles
Unless I'm mistaken QT is GPL'ed too. It was part of an agreement with KDE to keep Trolltech/a hypothetical buyer if Trolltech goes down the drain from screwing them over
Yeah great perhaps we can even replace the Evil Microsoft Empire with the equally evil google empire.
Now write 100 times "google is a corporation now"
Btw am I the only one disillusioned that google seems to concentrate on flashy new services (kitchensink.google.com) and less on improving their search algorithm. I know that the growth of the web makes it more and more difficult but google fails to provide even simple things like a possibility to filter out blogs or removing the most blatant dialer pages (you can't tell me that it's not possible to realize that page that has a whole dictionary in its meta tags and is linked to by thousands of other identical sites isn't fishy)
Slashdot Mirror
Hmm, I should probably clarify that before the next patriot is trolling along. The yes and no are *two* answers to the *two* questions - the first whether it was justified the second whether the US should have stayed at home. But I also want to add that the US *did* stay at home while France and the Commonwealth fought the 3rd Reich until the last possible moment (i.e. when they were attacked themselves and even then did Germany declare war on the US and not vice versa). FDR had to fight for every little bit of help he gave to the Allies before that and Churchill had a reason to say that the US will always do the right thing after it's exhausted the alternatives.
Nowhere did I say something about whether that war was justified (from the Allied perspective) or whether the US should have stayed at home (yes and no) but most casualties from the bombing campaign occured in 1945 when victory was certain, the military usefulness of the bombings is highly debatable and the Allies didn't even try to use their bomber fleet to stop the Holocaust even though they had proof of it since mid 1944.
Why does the fact that Hitler was perhaps more evil than any human before or after mean that the means employed by his enemies have to be just? If I can't say the US did questionable things can't I say it about the USSR either?
You forgot the US. The bombing campaigns of WWII and Vietnam/Cambodia almost certainly killed more than 2 million people so it would be #4 on the list.
n/t
Most people here call it an IBM chip but if you look at the design it's clearly the successor of the PS2's EE. The EE, especially the vector units were/are a major PITA especially if you want to keep them busy. So imho (and I'm talking with all the authority of a semi-informed /. poster here) the reason Sony (and Toshiba but afaik they were more involved in the production and not the design of the Sony chips) got IBM on board was to reduce the pain of prallelizing programs. IBM has much more experience with OS and compilers especially on uncommon designs so I think the situation will improve compared to EE. (Another thing is that Sony probably has learned much from EE's mistakes and will remove the bottlenecks that have plagued the PS2)
But IMHO they've grown a lot more believable with Macworld. As someone pointed out you don't get Sony's president at your show just to present a camcorder you can already buy. Yes they're selling it in Apple Stores but that explanation seems kinda weak.
Not really, they wrote their own Objective C look-alike.
C++ is one of the most popular languages out there; to call it arcane just because you don't like it is unfair. Yes C++ offers lots of possibilities to screw things up but it's also one of the most powerful languages. If you do a C++ project it may be more important to think about the structure of the program before you start hacking and to be more careful about the details than with Java but KDE got that right (And a good IDE can help you immensely).
All I see when I read your posts is a disgruntled Debian zealot too lazy to come up with a better argument. We can argue about features, usability, speed, integration, clean design of the different code elements etc. but restarting flame wars about programming language and license that were settled years ago because both sides realized that they were stupid is a bit weak.
The kernel is written in C, Gnome in Objective C, KDE in C++; there's a reason all large-scale projects (correct me if I'm wrong but atm I can't think of any well known 2-3 million lines+ project in Java/C#) use "arcane" languages
And KDE is (L)GPL, Qt is GPL (among others) and it's been that way for years now I really don't see what you're talking about
An Apple][ can be used as a computer, a Gamecube can't. So the Apple is superior? It's a game console the question is how good is it for that purpose.
And the screenshots looked significantly worse than even the average PS1 game (I've not looked at the Edutainment software). Now there's of course the question what dedicated developers would have been able to do with a few years of experience with the platform but I don't see any evidence that it was better than a PS1
Any proof of that? The site that you link to offers nothing but some really bad comparison (the PS: good Pippin: better kind) and no actual game screenshots (at least I haven't found them). I don't really doubt you but I'd like to judge myself based on some meaningful specs and/or screenshots and videos
That's off by about factor 10. Sorry for causing any psychological harm by pointing out the insignificance of your nation but look at the bright side. Had you been right the USA would have about 50% of the world population and I don't think the rest of the world could survive that =)
And be serious, unless Apple introduces a media-PC based on the Mini the next innovation for this product will be in about 3 years when they're gonna upgrade it to a G5. 2-3 years is their cycle with minimal upgrades in between.
I toyed with the idea of buying one. It's just as cute and slick as the new smaller PS2 (and I couldn't resist buying one of those) and would come with OSX but I'd need it as a router/server (in the hallway where it can be seen so size/look matters somewhat) and a better suited Shuttle (more RAM, more HD, SATA, no CDRW though, but I don't need one) comes 50 cheaper even if you take into account Apple's student prices. =(
No; Revolution won't have one, perhaps an expansion, XBox2 will have different versions, PS3 won't have one out-of-the-box but perhaps a small solid state memory
All use Blue Ray DVD?
I think Nintendo will keep their smaller disks, Sony will use Blu-Ray obviously and Microsoft will either use normal DVD (cost reasons, but I think they won't risk to lose this pissing contest as it's too easy to sway lay persons with this argument) or HD-DVD because they seem to be further along in terms of cheap drives.
Home entertaininment capability (MythTv like)?
Nintendo no, Sony and MS yes; both will use expansion discs/remotes/etc to rip you off
All run Linux?
No
DRM-disabled, I mean enabled?
What do you mean "DRM-enabled"? Copy protection? All consoles have used it for ages. DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray? Of course they'd never get a license otherwise.
Which one out first?
XBox2
Which one has highest first year sales?
PS3
Real name of X-Box next?
Xenon. It sounds shitty I can see the marketing guys eyes gleaming
X-Box ignored in Japan?
Yes. Let's face it. XBox is a console for sports and fps gamers. Some exceptions (KOTOR, DoA) but most XBox games seem to appeal to the college frat boy audience (No offense guys. If it makes you feel better I'll keep generalizing by calling the Gamecube a kiddie-console and PS2 catering to the wannabe gangster, driving master and 14-yr-old girl who's only played FFVII-X and thinks they're like the bestest games ever. Problem is, those audiences are more important in JP and the PAL territories than in the US and therefore I can't see XBox2 overtaking PS3 unless MS change their attitude and I don't think they will)
New console manufacturer enters market by 2010?
Major or minor? And to replace one of the existing or a joint-venture or whatever? I don't think there'll be a 4th successful console-"series". That includes that I don't believe anyone will replace Nintendo should they leave the market. But you'd have to be more specific and I'd have to think about it whether I forgot a potential candidate. Btw. successful means that it puts a dent into the worldwide market. I don't know about China-only consoles or small-but-profitable exotic Japanese products (Wonder Swan *cough*)
Existing manufacturer leaves market by 2010?
Depends on the next round. I can really see Nintendo leaving if the Revolution doesn't sell. MS really wants the living room audience so they'll probably stay. But I could see them switching to home entertainment if the XBox2 flops badly enough what I don't believe. Much will depend on their losses per unit sold. My guess: Sony stays, MS stays, Nintendo well I think they won't stay independent. I don't know whether it'll be a development joint-venture, rebranding of other consoles, slightly out-of-date consoles, being bought out by/supporting the consoles of MS (bad for them because they'd have to sell MS-branded consoles in Japan where they're traditionally strong and it'd probably hurt them) or Sony (Nintendo can hold a grudge for a long time).
Consoles were (at launch) massivly superior to the PC until the current generation. I remember all the weak attempts to get parallax scrolling (I think that's what it was called. Having more than one background scrolling at different speeds to achieve a pseudo-3D effect is what I mean) or smooth scrolling on the PC. And the original Playstation was a mean piece of hardware when it was released in 1994. Most of that was due to the fact that PCs had no 3D graphics cards at that time and the cpu had to do all the work.
Now PCs have catched up with the launch of the Voodoo and everything that's followed and the PS2 and especially the X-Box were actually rather underwhelming at launch. Not bad but not mindblowing cool either
Yes but the constitution would at the same time drastically strengthen the position of the European Parliament and national parliaments. See here
It's not perfect because the national governments tried to retain as much power for the council as possible but it's better than the situation now because the EP could face the Council as an equal. (That doesn't automatically improve the situation of course. Because as the EP gets more powerful lobbying would intensify but one of the advantages of the EP is the high number of different parties. For effective lobbying you'd have to own influential MEPs from the major parties in at least a dozen EU countries because due to national rivalries party whips lack the influence they have in more homogenous environments)
jm2c
1. I'm no expert on PowerPC performance so this is wild speculation based on GHz numbers but I would say the Mini is too close at the minimum necessary to play back HD AVC videos. I don't think it's powerful enough to guarantee uninterrupted playback
2. So you have a box without a HD burner (whether blu-ray or HD-DVD) and 40/80Gig disk space. Are you kidding? 700mb are not enough for a movie so we're talking about 2 CDs per movie, which won't be popular. Even if you cache on harddisk.
3. Now as a multimedia hub you'd have to calculate disk space for mp3s and basic home office (www, email etc) functionality. Say 10Gig audio files and 5Gig for OS, apps and related data. That leaves 25Gig on a 40Gig Mine, 60something on a 80Gig; space for less than 20 or 50 movies respectively and that at the minimum bitrate I'd call acceptable. Now the problem with that is that Apple would want to sell movies. There are more than enough reasons people are not going to buy at their store so they won't add to that by having their customers juggling with miniscule disk space
4. Now I think, actually I hope, that he has a point but if that's the case the Mini would be a test platform for the form factor more than for the actual media hub because we'd look at a drastically redesigned system (integrating dedicated en-/decoding chips and tv support is non-trivial and I don't even talk about the necessary software frontend) so Apple would dilute their product line if the design of the Mini was anything like the other system.
An additional problem would be that AFAIK the mini uses 2.5" disks; big 2.5" disks, the DVD burner and the necessary dedicated chips are going to make this one expensive toy at a time when Microsoft will roll out the XBox2 which is already hyped as an entertainment hub, is probably going to be similarily priced and can be used for playing games. All the while Sony will hype their Cell chip as the next big thing in digital entertainment talk about its super computer qualities and state that you can't export it to China because it would violate various restrictions for advanced weapons systems.
One of the big advantages of the iPod was that it entered the market when the major players didn't even know there was one and all competing products were by nobodies or lackluster.
We could do a /. interview with the interviewer of the interviewer to get to the bottom of this fascinating story... =)
Was it part of the McVeigh-UFO conspiracy also reported on your page before geocities axed it?
Fusion power research is known for bitter blood feuds and with nothing but some non-viewable jpgs on a geocities page (the google cache is accessible but it didn't cache the images) I see it as proof of Wikipedia's abilities of self-regulation that your change was reversed.
Try Weird Al Yankovic's (sp?) Amish Paradise (yes, the music video not the mp3 =)
I didn't doubt that. I just said that even if the plugins show up in the extensions dialog (yes, I know, there's a difference between plugins and extensions but there shouldn't be at least on the GUI level) it seems like there's no way to deactivate one at first. Only if you know how open source (and other software, such crap is commonplace in MS stuff too) normally works you'll immediatly try right-clicking specific extensions
But if this asteroid is at a distance where we have even a theoretical possibility of doing something before it hits us you can only work in probabilities because even minimal (10^-somethingverybig) changes will have a major impact on its course. So we will have people talking about how it's not going to hit us and how the scientists falsified data to further their agenda and all that bs
Even worse the dialog (at least in RC1) that pops up has three big buttons none of which is disable. To conclude that there is no possibility to disable a plugin instead of trying right-clicking it isn't all that far-fetched.
I wouldn't be so sure. Microsoft's trying to cap the per-unit costs. Unless there is real demand for HD-DVD players by mid 2005 I assume the HD-DVD drive will have to go. With wmv it isn't really needed for cutscenes so its only raison-d'etre would be selling more consoles
Unless I'm mistaken QT is GPL'ed too. It was part of an agreement with KDE to keep Trolltech/a hypothetical buyer if Trolltech goes down the drain from screwing them over
Now write 100 times "google is a corporation now"
Btw am I the only one disillusioned that google seems to concentrate on flashy new services (kitchensink.google.com) and less on improving their search algorithm. I know that the growth of the web makes it more and more difficult but google fails to provide even simple things like a possibility to filter out blogs or removing the most blatant dialer pages (you can't tell me that it's not possible to realize that page that has a whole dictionary in its meta tags and is linked to by thousands of other identical sites isn't fishy)