All the history books / classes trumpet the whole "US Defender of Freedom" thing regarding WW2, because we helped stop the holocaust. Yet we have the same sorts of concentration camps / ghettos as in WW2, in North Korea right now. You dont think thats something worth considering war for?
Stopping the Holocaust was not really the reason the US entered the war. The public reason was that we were attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. The real reasons are up for debate. But this is a good object lesson in the use of history classes to reinforce the idea that America = Awesome. Unfortunately history is as often about making one's country look good as relating what really happened way back when.
Oh, and you might as well consider things like Social Security as a "tax", because it'll either be gone before you can claim it in forty years or if you have a decent career, it won't be afforded to you in forty years, I'm sure.
You may be sure, but if that's the case I will be calling bullshit along with the rest of the AARP. I have been paying into SS, and I'd better get the benefit when I'm older. I know there's this meme out there that SS is unfunded and unaffordable, but that too is bullshit. It's a choice. We can easily fund SS indefinitely and pay the promised benefits if we choose to.
What happened is that actual people reacted to the news and the trading algorithms (not necessarily HFT, but trading bots) thought they hit a pattern and amplified the movement. Nobody lost anything except the bot herders that sold at -150 because they trusted their bots. I really can't see how that "hurts productive industries and threatens the stability of the economy" as you say.
The one I believe in! My god does not smite people or condemn them for their actions; even bad ones. My god gave us free will (or some semblance of it) and is letting us play it out. If we can work out our differences and learn to get along, great. If we can't, and end up destroying ourselves, that's fine with my god too. The universe is a big place, and my god is not too invested in one small corner of it.
I'm a bit of a Deist. I think god created the universe and is letting it run. It may help us if we ask, but even then it is up to us to take action. It certainly is not so insecure as to need to be worshiped or to play referee. Hell, my god doesn't even care if a lot of people think it doesn't exist!
The reason you get push-back is that you lump an entire religion (Islam) in with a relative few who cause violence. I agree that what goes on in some Muslim countries is backward from my view. But when you talk about an entire religion with over a billion adherents, most of whom are peaceful, it makes you sound like a bigot. The issue really is religious fundamentalism, whether it be Muslim, Jewish, Christian or Hindu. They have all killed people using religion as their justification.
If government could be trusted to serve the people and to be genuinely transparent in its activities AND if we had a MSM which still acted as the "fourth estate" rather than serving as the propaganda wing of the establishment, there wouldn't BE an 'infowars.com'
When they act in their own self interest and exploit sensational incidents like 9-11 and falsify intelligence data to pursue a pre-planned political agenda (Patriot Act, warrantless surveillance, Iraq War, etc.) it raises natural doubts as to the truth of any narrative they try to sell. The media is largely complicit, for instance in selling the 'WMD' story.
This is a good point. More and more people don't trust what government spokespeople tell them because they have been mislead in the past. It's not to say they are always lying or deceiving, but that their statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
Sadly, I think the sociopaths who control our government would be more than willing to hurt innocent Americans to further their objectives. The coincidence of this attack with tax day and the active gun control debate definitely had me concerned about the possibility.
Unfortunately, I agree there are elements of our government that would resort to such measures. It has been done before, such as when the military or CIA have run experiments on unsuspecting civilians, or plans like Operation Northwoods (though that wasn't carried out). This particular case (the marathon bombing) doesn't strike me that way though. It seems more like disaffected youth or some such. We'll have to wait and see.
The wealthy are not discriminated against, and a progressive tax system is not discriminatory. Every dollar in each bracket is taxed the same, regardless of one's "circumstance". Your first $8925 is taxed at 10%, just like mine, just like everyone.
It's not about jealousy. It's about the fact that the wealthy have benefited from this society much more than others have. And as much as they would like to think it's because they're just that awesome, that's not really the case. Isn't it reasonable that they should pay more back into the system that made them so fabulously wealthy? If not, then let them "go Galt" and form their own society so they stop leeching off the work of everyone else.
It's also about the fact that wealth brings power in this country. If you have enough money you can have an out-sized influence on government and society. In a representative democracy that is not healthy, as it allows individuals to use the power of corporations and the state to enact their own narrow agenda. Don't believe me? Ask Intuit why the tax code is still so complicated, or why Wall Street got bailed out while Main Street was left to rot. When a white billionaire can't get a loan, or a cab, or a table at a restaurant or an audience with his representative, or is harassed by police while walking down the street, you can talk to me about discrimination. Until then, the wealthy seem to be overcoming their adversity just fine.
It does seem that, in the USA, the "two party" system has pretty much locked things up.
You have different positions on "seemingly" opposite sides... but the "sides" are artificial. There are lots of folks like you. The problem is the current setup has polarized everyone into one camp or the other, when, in reality, they are BOTH chiseling away our rights. Neither side ever UNDOES what the other side does, just adds their own rules, as they take turns in power.
The way things are going, we will soon be back to a two tier society - the ruling class and the serfs. America had a pretty good run at letting the free go, for a while, but now it is going back to traditional ways...
They have absolutely locked things up. Doesn't everyone want to limit competition? By maintaining their duopoly they ensure each party will always have a seat at the table. When the voters inevitably get fed up with one, the other gets its turn. Since both parties are making Chinese finger cuffs out of the American people, there will always be turnover.
You don't have to be paranoid to think this is the case. If you do the slightest bit of research you will see that neither party is interested in accommodating a third. H. Ross Perot taught them that, if nothing else. Representatives of both parties control who gets into the debates; it's no coincidence that it's always only two dudes up there. In politics nothing is left to chance. The stakes are too high.
Any type of income or wealth tax is theft of property but the graduated tax (the so called 'progressive' tax) is just pure discrimination.
It's all immoral and unconstitutional, it's all theft of property and treatment of people differently under law based on their specific circumstances, so it's discrimination.
Yeah, all those poor rich folks and all the discrimination against them. Why, they might actually be able to get ahead in life if it weren't for all the discrimination! I'm surprised they don't all give up their wealth so they can reap the benefits of lower taxation. Can you believe that almost half the country doesn't pay income taxes at all? Boy, do they have it good!
If you're making the vapid, insipid point that "freedom" was just a PR line for standard military conflict - sigh, fine. You're so clever and against the grain, Britta.
I am making that very vapid and insipid point. It was and continues to be a PR line. I am sometimes clever and often against the grain.
But you seem to feel that point is beleaguered. It may be obvious and WTLW to you, but if I were to make that point to most people on the street, that talk of freedom and democracy are just covers for enacting a geo-strategic agenda, they would think I'm a crazy person or even worse a conspiracy theorist.
When we went to war with Iraq we were told it was because Saddam Hussein had terrible weapons and he was brutal to his people. We had to free the oppressed Iraqi people! Almost everyone I knew bought it. I knew from the start it was bullshit. Did I have proof? No, I just knew how these things go. But Brian Williams has such dreamy eyes, how could he mislead us?
So what if it was, anyway? Going to the freaking moon was a side effect of the Cold War - I'm more than happy to play along if I get my freedom to hold these conversations.
So what if it was? Your government lies to you about why it goes to war and for who's benefit, and you say "So what, at least we went to the moon". You think it's fine because you can post on a website about it, as an AC no less. What if you tried to do something about it? Do you think your government and those that run it would stand idly by while you exercised your freedom to end their gravy train and upset their apple cart? Do you think the Occupy protesters thought so before the FBI and DHS started spying on them, and they were pushed back by the NYPD? Does Julian Assange freely walk the earth? Or are you too busy being like, so beyond all that?
Wait, so "They are playing dirty" makes "We are playing dirty" right?
Siding with scoundrels tends to return and bite you in the ass. Osama is the proof (and he did win with 9/11. Look at your law and your freedoms today.)
If the US did play entirely by the rules, the USSR would win the Cold War. The USSR was a fascist country, although the red sort of fascism, and observed no rules in its quest for dominance over Eurasia. I am glad the West's only country capable of standing against the USSR had politicians like Dr Kissinger that were focused on winning.
Why is it that so many continue to think that the ends justify the means, when in reality the means applied determine what you end up with? The ends don't justify the means, the means determine the ends.
Please forgive me if I'm harder on my own country than others. It is because it is my country, the one I have the most stake in and the most control over (Ha!). It's the same reason I'm more concerned with my own kid's behavior than that of other children.
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All the history books / classes trumpet the whole "US Defender of Freedom" thing regarding WW2, because we helped stop the holocaust. Yet we have the same sorts of concentration camps / ghettos as in WW2, in North Korea right now. You dont think thats something worth considering war for?
Stopping the Holocaust was not really the reason the US entered the war. The public reason was that we were attacked by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor. The real reasons are up for debate. But this is a good object lesson in the use of history classes to reinforce the idea that America = Awesome. Unfortunately history is as often about making one's country look good as relating what really happened way back when.
Oh, and you might as well consider things like Social Security as a "tax", because it'll either be gone before you can claim it in forty years or if you have a decent career, it won't be afforded to you in forty years, I'm sure.
You may be sure, but if that's the case I will be calling bullshit along with the rest of the AARP. I have been paying into SS, and I'd better get the benefit when I'm older. I know there's this meme out there that SS is unfunded and unaffordable, but that too is bullshit. It's a choice. We can easily fund SS indefinitely and pay the promised benefits if we choose to.
New York has a city tax as well. I don't know the current rate, as I haven't lived there in a while. But the parent likely pays that as well.
Sorry, is my argument from authority not authoritative enough?
Here ya go. That wasn't hard.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/computerized-front-running-and-financial-fraud/18809
http://247wallst.com/2012/12/04/high-frequency-trading-a-grave-threat-to-the-markets-and-the-economy/
What happened is that actual people reacted to the news and the trading algorithms (not necessarily HFT, but trading bots) thought they hit a pattern and amplified the movement. Nobody lost anything except the bot herders that sold at -150 because they trusted their bots. I really can't see how that "hurts productive industries and threatens the stability of the economy" as you say.
I'll just leave this here. http://247wallst.com/2012/12/04/high-frequency-trading-a-grave-threat-to-the-markets-and-the-economy/
Seriously, which one would that be?
The one I believe in! My god does not smite people or condemn them for their actions; even bad ones. My god gave us free will (or some semblance of it) and is letting us play it out. If we can work out our differences and learn to get along, great. If we can't, and end up destroying ourselves, that's fine with my god too. The universe is a big place, and my god is not too invested in one small corner of it.
I'm a bit of a Deist. I think god created the universe and is letting it run. It may help us if we ask, but even then it is up to us to take action. It certainly is not so insecure as to need to be worshiped or to play referee. Hell, my god doesn't even care if a lot of people think it doesn't exist!
Juuust a little outside! ;-)
You can't generalize amongst a billion people. You just can't, and be accurate. http://www.emuslim.com/islamagainstVoilence.asp
The reason you get push-back is that you lump an entire religion (Islam) in with a relative few who cause violence. I agree that what goes on in some Muslim countries is backward from my view. But when you talk about an entire religion with over a billion adherents, most of whom are peaceful, it makes you sound like a bigot. The issue really is religious fundamentalism, whether it be Muslim, Jewish, Christian or Hindu. They have all killed people using religion as their justification.
Personally I hope the FSB and CIA start working together on the 'Islam' problem.
Is that like the Jewish problem? Someone tried to take care of that a while back too.
If government could be trusted to serve the people and to be genuinely transparent in its activities AND if we had a MSM which still acted as the "fourth estate" rather than serving as the propaganda wing of the establishment, there wouldn't BE an 'infowars.com'
When they act in their own self interest and exploit sensational incidents like 9-11 and falsify intelligence data to pursue a pre-planned political agenda (Patriot Act, warrantless surveillance, Iraq War, etc.) it raises natural doubts as to the truth of any narrative they try to sell. The media is largely complicit, for instance in selling the 'WMD' story.
This is a good point. More and more people don't trust what government spokespeople tell them because they have been mislead in the past. It's not to say they are always lying or deceiving, but that their statements should be taken with a grain of salt.
Sadly, I think the sociopaths who control our government would be more than willing to hurt innocent Americans to further their objectives. The coincidence of this attack with tax day and the active gun control debate definitely had me concerned about the possibility.
Unfortunately, I agree there are elements of our government that would resort to such measures. It has been done before, such as when the military or CIA have run experiments on unsuspecting civilians, or plans like Operation Northwoods (though that wasn't carried out). This particular case (the marathon bombing) doesn't strike me that way though. It seems more like disaffected youth or some such. We'll have to wait and see.
Is that because you think false flag attacks don't happen?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
I've been hanging around this site for a while, and I don't understand why this gets posted so much. And I even used to use a custom hosts file!
Are those my only two choices? Can't I have a god that's nice to people?
The wealthy are not discriminated against, and a progressive tax system is not discriminatory. Every dollar in each bracket is taxed the same, regardless of one's "circumstance". Your first $8925 is taxed at 10%, just like mine, just like everyone.
It's not about jealousy. It's about the fact that the wealthy have benefited from this society much more than others have. And as much as they would like to think it's because they're just that awesome, that's not really the case. Isn't it reasonable that they should pay more back into the system that made them so fabulously wealthy? If not, then let them "go Galt" and form their own society so they stop leeching off the work of everyone else.
It's also about the fact that wealth brings power in this country. If you have enough money you can have an out-sized influence on government and society. In a representative democracy that is not healthy, as it allows individuals to use the power of corporations and the state to enact their own narrow agenda. Don't believe me? Ask Intuit why the tax code is still so complicated, or why Wall Street got bailed out while Main Street was left to rot. When a white billionaire can't get a loan, or a cab, or a table at a restaurant or an audience with his representative, or is harassed by police while walking down the street, you can talk to me about discrimination. Until then, the wealthy seem to be overcoming their adversity just fine.
"Man I would blow your fucking head off, if I could afford it!" ~Chris Rock
It does seem that, in the USA, the "two party" system has pretty much locked things up. You have different positions on "seemingly" opposite sides... but the "sides" are artificial. There are lots of folks like you. The problem is the current setup has polarized everyone into one camp or the other, when, in reality, they are BOTH chiseling away our rights. Neither side ever UNDOES what the other side does, just adds their own rules, as they take turns in power. The way things are going, we will soon be back to a two tier society - the ruling class and the serfs. America had a pretty good run at letting the free go, for a while, but now it is going back to traditional ways...
They have absolutely locked things up. Doesn't everyone want to limit competition? By maintaining their duopoly they ensure each party will always have a seat at the table. When the voters inevitably get fed up with one, the other gets its turn. Since both parties are making Chinese finger cuffs out of the American people, there will always be turnover.
You don't have to be paranoid to think this is the case. If you do the slightest bit of research you will see that neither party is interested in accommodating a third. H. Ross Perot taught them that, if nothing else. Representatives of both parties control who gets into the debates; it's no coincidence that it's always only two dudes up there. In politics nothing is left to chance. The stakes are too high.
Any type of income or wealth tax is theft of property but the graduated tax (the so called 'progressive' tax) is just pure discrimination.
It's all immoral and unconstitutional, it's all theft of property and treatment of people differently under law based on their specific circumstances, so it's discrimination.
Yeah, all those poor rich folks and all the discrimination against them. Why, they might actually be able to get ahead in life if it weren't for all the discrimination! I'm surprised they don't all give up their wealth so they can reap the benefits of lower taxation. Can you believe that almost half the country doesn't pay income taxes at all? Boy, do they have it good!
I've often suspected that it's idiots all the way down.
If you're making the vapid, insipid point that "freedom" was just a PR line for standard military conflict - sigh, fine. You're so clever and against the grain, Britta.
I am making that very vapid and insipid point. It was and continues to be a PR line. I am sometimes clever and often against the grain.
But you seem to feel that point is beleaguered. It may be obvious and WTLW to you, but if I were to make that point to most people on the street, that talk of freedom and democracy are just covers for enacting a geo-strategic agenda, they would think I'm a crazy person or even worse a conspiracy theorist.
When we went to war with Iraq we were told it was because Saddam Hussein had terrible weapons and he was brutal to his people. We had to free the oppressed Iraqi people! Almost everyone I knew bought it. I knew from the start it was bullshit. Did I have proof? No, I just knew how these things go. But Brian Williams has such dreamy eyes, how could he mislead us?
So what if it was, anyway? Going to the freaking moon was a side effect of the Cold War - I'm more than happy to play along if I get my freedom to hold these conversations.
So what if it was? Your government lies to you about why it goes to war and for who's benefit, and you say "So what, at least we went to the moon". You think it's fine because you can post on a website about it, as an AC no less. What if you tried to do something about it? Do you think your government and those that run it would stand idly by while you exercised your freedom to end their gravy train and upset their apple cart? Do you think the Occupy protesters thought so before the FBI and DHS started spying on them, and they were pushed back by the NYPD? Does Julian Assange freely walk the earth? Or are you too busy being like, so beyond all that?
Wait, so "They are playing dirty" makes "We are playing dirty" right?
Siding with scoundrels tends to return and bite you in the ass. Osama is the proof (and he did win with 9/11. Look at your law and your freedoms today.)
But Mom! Nikita and Leonid did it too!
If the US did play entirely by the rules, the USSR would win the Cold War. The USSR was a fascist country, although the red sort of fascism, and observed no rules in its quest for dominance over Eurasia. I am glad the West's only country capable of standing against the USSR had politicians like Dr Kissinger that were focused on winning.
Why is it that so many continue to think that the ends justify the means, when in reality the means applied determine what you end up with? The ends don't justify the means, the means determine the ends.
What amuses me is that most people like to pretend that this type of stuff doesn't continue into the present day.
Please forgive me if I'm harder on my own country than others. It is because it is my country, the one I have the most stake in and the most control over (Ha!). It's the same reason I'm more concerned with my own kid's behavior than that of other children.