so you can sit around and not work? What gives you the right to take my money to support somebody else? Maybe I don't want to give up my hard earned cash?
Unless you can answer those questions you're not going to get anywhere with post scarcity socialism. I've got answers, but none of them feel good. They're all very reasonable and logical answers and they all make people feel bad. Barack Obama, Hilary Clinton and the American left have been trying to figure out what to do about that sentimentality for years and haven't come up with an answer. I haven't heard anyone on/. give me one either, and I've been asking on every one of these threads...
For one thing, we have too many people who just aren't smart enough for college. I suppose we could do something about that with better child rearing, but that would cost a ton of money and require people to spend a fortune on other people's kids. In my neck of the woods we can't even get a.05% (not cent, percent) sales tax though to fund our schools. There where 45 kids in my kid's high school English. She used to come home tired from standing because there were no seats. She went to one of the best public schools in the city.
And all of this is before we talk about clean air, clean drinking water (Flint, MI is going to have a generation of problems from Lead poisoning, and Donald Trump will be cutting back on the regulations to catch and prevent that sort of thing..). Again, who's gonna pay for it?
And let's imagine for an instant we do get folks to pay for it, what then? What are we going to do with a planet of 6 billion highly educated people? We're gonna get 5 billion people with advanced training, not 5 billion Eisensteins. Are we really going to have jobs for them all? China doesn't, and they're desperately clamping down on their over-educated populace to keep them from revolting...
there was 80+ years of massive unemployment after the industrial revolution. "Luddite" once had a meaning beyond someone afraid of technology. It was a political movement in response to job losses that our social systems didn't make up. Our society never did make those losses up either. We killed several million working age men in two World Wars, saw some technical advancements employ people in new fields and shipped our sweat shops overseas. What we did _not_ do is fix our social structures. Instead there was 200 years of general misery for no good reason.
than modern American workers. There was 80 years of abject poverty and unemployment after the industrial revolution but we sorta skip over that (along with anything in opposition to a pro-capitalism narrative) in school. In the 60s women moved into the workforce not for freedom but to make ends meet as wages started dropping after the post WWII and post Union gains. Again, we ignore all that.
Nobody's saying we should go back to tilling the field. We're saying we should learn history and learn from it.
I'm buying a home soon. It'll be a little over 1000 sq/ft because that's what I can afford.
I have 2 cars in my family and will have a third soon (for my kid). This is not by choice. Without a car I need to live where I work. The increased cost of that is several times more than a car, so I put up with a shitty commute. My kid is in college. In 2 years she starts clinicals and they're spread all over town. No car, no clinicals, no degree. I will work harder to have things I don't want so someone can get rich selling them to me.
I can't afford a stay at home mom to cook. So I eat a lot of cheap take out. It tastes bad and it's bad for me, but after two 50 hour weeks nobody in my household is making a good home cooked meal.
I suppose I have a big honking TV though. And it was cheap ($200 bucks). So I'll give you that. Whoop de fucking do. I can drown my sorrows in cheap electronics made by slave labor in China. Thanks.
1. Who's gonna pay for it? Yeah, I could write a few paragraphs on this topic, but they're not gonna make folks feel good about paying taxes to fund things like single payer health care, basic income, free public university, etc, etc.
2. The Puritan work ethic. Folks get _really_ uncomfortable with the idea that somebody is doing OK and not working their ass off to do it. There's an intense amount of resentment for it. It's not fair they have to put 40 hours of misery in and somebody else stays home eating steak and lobster and bon-bons. Hell, 'not fair' is one of the first concepts children learn. It's deeply ingrained in us.
Unless somebody figures out what to do with those sentiments we're gonna just keep giving everything to the upper class because we can't bear the thought of it going to anybody else...
Islam is NOT founded on what we would call 'ethical good' but instead is based on the supremacy of Allah over all others. So mass rape and murder is considered 'good' because Allah clearly commands Muslims do these to the hated kaffir unbelievers (non-Muslims).
I also didn't follow where you were going with bringing up Abrogation, except maybe you were trying to make a point that there aren't any verses that contradict the command to spread Islam and subjugate the world to the rule of Sharia.
For the record, Christianity has an equally terrifying concept: That God punishes the faithful for the sins of the unfaithful, thus making the sinner an existent threat to the Christian (and indeed, him/herself and all mankind). We see this in Sodom & Gomorrah and the Floods.
That said there's considerable evidence that the stories in the Bible and Koran are meant as parables and not to be taken literally. That they're guidance from on high rather than commandments.
Basically, there are good arguments for purging all religion from mankind, and good arguments for keeping it. So far yours falls into neither category. It's just inflammatory. Please try harder next time.
living on the fringes of society by dropping off the map isn't a way to live, son. If you're trying to disappear from the world you've already lost the battle. Instead of worrying about that do something about income inequality. Do something about Wage Slavery. Put systems in place to prevent economic abuses. There's a reason Donald Trump's got a hot wife, and it's not his winning personality...
by encouraging them to patrol their neighborhoods looking for Muslims _is_. Trump did that, among other things, during the campaign.
And there was a rational discussion. Several folks (notably Jon Oliver) pointed out very rationally that immigrants from terrorists nations are incredibly well vetted. You'd be more likely to see Dutch terrorists sneaking in with wooden shoe bombs than an actual terrorists sneaking through. But all that was lost on the Fox news crowd.
And we got Trump because the Blacks and Latinos couldn't be assed to come out and vote for Hilary. Trump got the 60 million Romney voters from 2012. 5 million of the 65 that showed up for Obama stayed home. For fucks sake people, you don't have to like it but when the consequences are that obvious get the hell out and _vote_. You've got 2 years. Assuming Trump's justice department hasn't locked you all up to fill their private prisons then don't screw it up again.
and you didn't even come close. Hell, just check the Wikipedia article. To wit for those too lazy to click:
Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation
It's really simple. You can say Trump's a piece of shit because he's a grifter who doesn't pay his contractors for honest work done. You can't say it's because his Bavarian heritage makes him prone to deceit because they share a border with the Dutch (naturally, Bavaria isn't anywhere near the Netherlands).
If you didn't vote Hilary you have yourself to blame, I hope whatever satisfaction you get (or whatever economic gains) from a Trump presidency outweigh the value of net neutrality to you.
And the sooner we realize this the better. What you refer to as "Power Elite" are just the water carriers. America has a ruling class, and they do not reside in DC.
And sesame credit. This is exactly as terrifying as it sounds. I hate to be this much of a cynic, but While we really shouldn't doing business with a country that does this sort of thing we're not gonna give up out phones to do it
and enough desperation to figure out that you're working for about $3/hour after factoring in wear and tear on your car. There's only so many recently laid off people trying to make rent.
it helps anyone who can't afford to strike while hurting Uber. For one thing It'll put them into direct competition with taxis & limos and they'll lose that (real professional drivers are much better at it, 3 of 4 Ubers I took got lost along the way. Yeah I got picked up 30 minutes sooner, and I got dropped off a quarter mile from my destination because neither one of us knew where we were going).
For another it means less rides. Uber needs volume. If Surge pricing 100% of the time brought in more money they'd be doing it. Non stop Surge pricing hurts Uber.
with the millions of people who are just barely together enough to flip burgers. I just want to hear you say you're going to abandon them to poverty and death. Go on, say it. Strip away the bullshit and economic lies your kind hides behind and then the rest of us can identify you for what you are and maybe get on with forging a civilization.
Centuries worth of hard fought gains by the working class (minimum wage, OSHA, overtime pay, etc, etc)? People died for the 40 hour work week, ya know?
Is ride sharing? They recruit drivers using the same hiring techniques businesses use to find employees. They control what the drivers can charge and they punish drivers for declining low paying work. The drivers aren't sharing, they're working.
diving is a really, really expensive thing to go do. That's sorta the problem. The rust belters in America who just voted for Trump (or who didn't vote Hilary because they couldn't bring themselves to) really don't care about coral reefs. They care about next month's rent. Until you can fix their economy you're not going to get anyone to care. The environment doesn't really matter to somebody taking out their second payday loan...
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so you can sit around and not work? What gives you the right to take my money to support somebody else? Maybe I don't want to give up my hard earned cash?
/. give me one either, and I've been asking on every one of these threads...
Unless you can answer those questions you're not going to get anywhere with post scarcity socialism. I've got answers, but none of them feel good. They're all very reasonable and logical answers and they all make people feel bad. Barack Obama, Hilary Clinton and the American left have been trying to figure out what to do about that sentimentality for years and haven't come up with an answer. I haven't heard anyone on
For one thing, we have too many people who just aren't smart enough for college. I suppose we could do something about that with better child rearing, but that would cost a ton of money and require people to spend a fortune on other people's kids. In my neck of the woods we can't even get a .05% (not cent, percent) sales tax though to fund our schools. There where 45 kids in my kid's high school English. She used to come home tired from standing because there were no seats. She went to one of the best public schools in the city.
And all of this is before we talk about clean air, clean drinking water (Flint, MI is going to have a generation of problems from Lead poisoning, and Donald Trump will be cutting back on the regulations to catch and prevent that sort of thing..). Again, who's gonna pay for it?
And let's imagine for an instant we do get folks to pay for it, what then? What are we going to do with a planet of 6 billion highly educated people? We're gonna get 5 billion people with advanced training, not 5 billion Eisensteins. Are we really going to have jobs for them all? China doesn't, and they're desperately clamping down on their over-educated populace to keep them from revolting...
there was 80+ years of massive unemployment after the industrial revolution. "Luddite" once had a meaning beyond someone afraid of technology. It was a political movement in response to job losses that our social systems didn't make up. Our society never did make those losses up either. We killed several million working age men in two World Wars, saw some technical advancements employ people in new fields and shipped our sweat shops overseas. What we did _not_ do is fix our social structures. Instead there was 200 years of general misery for no good reason.
than modern American workers. There was 80 years of abject poverty and unemployment after the industrial revolution but we sorta skip over that (along with anything in opposition to a pro-capitalism narrative) in school. In the 60s women moved into the workforce not for freedom but to make ends meet as wages started dropping after the post WWII and post Union gains. Again, we ignore all that.
Nobody's saying we should go back to tilling the field. We're saying we should learn history and learn from it.
we've had 1 notable instance of fake liberal news in 20 years and 20 years of fake conservative news (fox).
they're going so far out of their way to not be biased that they're giving a voice to absolutely apeshit ideas. That's what got us Trump.
What's the old joke? Reality has a liberal bias.
I'm buying a home soon. It'll be a little over 1000 sq/ft because that's what I can afford.
I have 2 cars in my family and will have a third soon (for my kid). This is not by choice. Without a car I need to live where I work. The increased cost of that is several times more than a car, so I put up with a shitty commute. My kid is in college. In 2 years she starts clinicals and they're spread all over town. No car, no clinicals, no degree. I will work harder to have things I don't want so someone can get rich selling them to me.
I can't afford a stay at home mom to cook. So I eat a lot of cheap take out. It tastes bad and it's bad for me, but after two 50 hour weeks nobody in my household is making a good home cooked meal.
I suppose I have a big honking TV though. And it was cheap ($200 bucks). So I'll give you that. Whoop de fucking do. I can drown my sorrows in cheap electronics made by slave labor in China. Thanks.
but there are two things I can't answer:
1. Who's gonna pay for it? Yeah, I could write a few paragraphs on this topic, but they're not gonna make folks feel good about paying taxes to fund things like single payer health care, basic income, free public university, etc, etc.
2. The Puritan work ethic. Folks get _really_ uncomfortable with the idea that somebody is doing OK and not working their ass off to do it. There's an intense amount of resentment for it. It's not fair they have to put 40 hours of misery in and somebody else stays home eating steak and lobster and bon-bons. Hell, 'not fair' is one of the first concepts children learn. It's deeply ingrained in us.
Unless somebody figures out what to do with those sentiments we're gonna just keep giving everything to the upper class because we can't bear the thought of it going to anybody else...
here:
Islam is NOT founded on what we would call 'ethical good' but instead is based on the supremacy of Allah over all others. So mass rape and murder is considered 'good' because Allah clearly commands Muslims do these to the hated kaffir unbelievers (non-Muslims).
I also didn't follow where you were going with bringing up Abrogation, except maybe you were trying to make a point that there aren't any verses that contradict the command to spread Islam and subjugate the world to the rule of Sharia.
For the record, Christianity has an equally terrifying concept: That God punishes the faithful for the sins of the unfaithful, thus making the sinner an existent threat to the Christian (and indeed, him/herself and all mankind). We see this in Sodom & Gomorrah and the Floods.
That said there's considerable evidence that the stories in the Bible and Koran are meant as parables and not to be taken literally. That they're guidance from on high rather than commandments.
Basically, there are good arguments for purging all religion from mankind, and good arguments for keeping it. So far yours falls into neither category. It's just inflammatory. Please try harder next time.
living on the fringes of society by dropping off the map isn't a way to live, son. If you're trying to disappear from the world you've already lost the battle. Instead of worrying about that do something about income inequality. Do something about Wage Slavery. Put systems in place to prevent economic abuses. There's a reason Donald Trump's got a hot wife, and it's not his winning personality...
Because that wouldn't cut Nestle's sugar costs by 40%?
by encouraging them to patrol their neighborhoods looking for Muslims _is_. Trump did that, among other things, during the campaign.
And there was a rational discussion. Several folks (notably Jon Oliver) pointed out very rationally that immigrants from terrorists nations are incredibly well vetted. You'd be more likely to see Dutch terrorists sneaking in with wooden shoe bombs than an actual terrorists sneaking through. But all that was lost on the Fox news crowd.
And we got Trump because the Blacks and Latinos couldn't be assed to come out and vote for Hilary. Trump got the 60 million Romney voters from 2012. 5 million of the 65 that showed up for Obama stayed home. For fucks sake people, you don't have to like it but when the consequences are that obvious get the hell out and _vote_. You've got 2 years. Assuming Trump's justice department hasn't locked you all up to fill their private prisons then don't screw it up again.
It's really simple. You can say Trump's a piece of shit because he's a grifter who doesn't pay his contractors for honest work done. You can't say it's because his Bavarian heritage makes him prone to deceit because they share a border with the Dutch (naturally, Bavaria isn't anywhere near the Netherlands).
If you didn't vote Hilary you have yourself to blame, I hope whatever satisfaction you get (or whatever economic gains) from a Trump presidency outweigh the value of net neutrality to you.
18 months ago when he started his candidacy?
And the sooner we realize this the better. What you refer to as "Power Elite" are just the water carriers. America has a ruling class, and they do not reside in DC.
And sesame credit. This is exactly as terrifying as it sounds. I hate to be this much of a cynic, but While we really shouldn't doing business with a country that does this sort of thing we're not gonna give up out phones to do it
and enough desperation to figure out that you're working for about $3/hour after factoring in wear and tear on your car. There's only so many recently laid off people trying to make rent.
it helps anyone who can't afford to strike while hurting Uber. For one thing It'll put them into direct competition with taxis & limos and they'll lose that (real professional drivers are much better at it, 3 of 4 Ubers I took got lost along the way. Yeah I got picked up 30 minutes sooner, and I got dropped off a quarter mile from my destination because neither one of us knew where we were going).
For another it means less rides. Uber needs volume. If Surge pricing 100% of the time brought in more money they'd be doing it. Non stop Surge pricing hurts Uber.
with the millions of people who are just barely together enough to flip burgers. I just want to hear you say you're going to abandon them to poverty and death. Go on, say it. Strip away the bullshit and economic lies your kind hides behind and then the rest of us can identify you for what you are and maybe get on with forging a civilization.
Centuries worth of hard fought gains by the working class (minimum wage, OSHA, overtime pay, etc, etc)? People died for the 40 hour work week, ya know?
Is to do something (pull yourself up by your bootstraps) that is literally impossible.
Creative accounting. That and massive legal fees.
Is ride sharing? They recruit drivers using the same hiring techniques businesses use to find employees. They control what the drivers can charge and they punish drivers for declining low paying work. The drivers aren't sharing, they're working.
diving is a really, really expensive thing to go do. That's sorta the problem. The rust belters in America who just voted for Trump (or who didn't vote Hilary because they couldn't bring themselves to) really don't care about coral reefs. They care about next month's rent. Until you can fix their economy you're not going to get anyone to care. The environment doesn't really matter to somebody taking out their second payday loan...