This is the result of two decades of court packing with pro-corporate justices. This is also what happens when you let money hoarding go unchecked. When it gets to be more money than a person can spend it's not money anymore, it's power.
We've let too much power accumulate into the hands of too few. We're going to start paying the price more and more often.
so I can't resist feeding you a bit more, even though I know we're not supposed to feed the trolls.
WWII doesn't really matter in this context. It's a strawman you're using to distract from my main point, which is that giving all the money to the 1% hasn't stopped them from outsourcing jobs. We just borrowed $1 trillion and gave it to the 1% in the form of tax cuts and they used it for mother f*king stock buy backs. No jobs, no investment.
Companies don't hire because they've got money, they hire to meet demand. That is why demand side economics works and supply side (aka trickle down) fails. That's the "OVERALL" economic picture that you're ignoring.
But you're just an alt-right troll. You're not interested in solving problems or being right, just winning. I'm not the one that figured that out either, this guy is. He's got a whole series of videos on guys like you.
Thing is, if you're being paid it's not enough. Eventually they'll eat you alive. And if you've drunk the kool-aid then stop. It's poisoned. Go watch the videos on the Alt-Right playbook linked above and learn how you've been had.
Trump outpaced Obama for outsourcing and he's a GOPper. We tried your way and it didn't work. Now try mine. It works. It worked in the 50s when we had a 90% top marginal and it'll work now.
is this gonna change how anyone votes in 2020? No? Then so what.
As long as we keep voting in corrupt folks they're gonna keep being corrupt. And once again I'll drop this link to the only wing of any party that makes it a litmus test to refuse corporate PAC money. As always if anyone knows a GOP equivalent I'm all ears.
that China still calls their military the "China's People's Liberation Army". The people were "Liberated" a long time ago. It's just the army now.
I don't think it matters that we've handed so much manufacturing over to the Chinese. The folks running the show, what we usually call the Ruling Class, are global now. They might have the occasional spat here and there over who's yacht's bigger or who's the richest this week but they're not really fighting (and by extension the countries they run aren't fighting).
I suppose it's a good thing. A World War isn't the solution (though it's one way to kick your economy up a notch). But anything we're seeing here is at best a pissing match between billionaires.
the key is does he think Trump will or not. No telling. I think it's also entirely up to whether Trump's base would get behind a pardon (or at least not notice one).
because I really think he's just a patsy and so are his kids. OTOH they're all pretty arogant and they seem to think they're all real deal makers (there's a interview with I think Ed McMahon where he talks about negotiating with Trump and how he just kept letting him talk until Trump had given up everything).
Trump or his kids might have stuck their nose in where it don't belong instead when they got butthurt over being irrelevant figure heads. If that happened they're sunk. Otherwise I'm not so sure.
Also, WTF is it that we're not freaking out more over Trump doing defacto witness tampering with Cohen? The president of the United States publicly threatened someone's father in law and it barely made the news.
buzzword or not. These kinds of things are a sort of silent increase in efficiency that nobody's talking about. It's much quicker and cheaper to do the maintenance than it is to clean up a mess, but only if you know when to do the maintenance. Otherwise you're stuck spending a fortune on unnecessary maintenance.
This is literally an answer to the old Dilbert joke "I want advanced notice of any unplanned outages, and I want it yesterday". That sounded funny in the 90s, in 2019 somebody did it.
What worries me is when all these little efficiency boosts are applied on a global scale. Folks are gonna bring up the old "break windows to make jobs" hyperbole but that's not what this is. This is massively increasing the efficiency of maintenance done. Imagine if you never had to worry about a car part failing and leaving you stranded because you knew exactly when to do what and for how much. Imagine never paying a mechanic to fix something that didn't need fixing. That's what this is.
the fact that Luddites were violent has nothing to do with their job losses.
Luddite resistance only existed for a few years because they were brutally oppressed.
The discharged soldiers just show that their economy couldn't absorb an uptick in workers. What do you think will happen when we put 10-25% of a population of 350 million+ out of work.
And employers are _always_ complaining about a shortage of employees. Nothing new there.
I'm not saying we should resist these patterns (you're putting words in my mouth). If you want to know what I'm driving at I'm saying we need a society where you can eat even if there's no useful work for you to do. i.e. socialism, UBI or whatever you want to call it.
If I can't imagine the job then it's not going to exist on a time frame that matters to me or even my kids. The resulting technology unemployment, OTOH, will exist.
it's just hyperbole in the article. The scientists are still scientists.
Go watch this for some context and stop attacking science. You're undermining people's belief in science with what are right wing talking points used to cut funding (and therefore taxes) to scientific research.
I don't think you're doing it on purpose and that's what makes it so awful. It's become insidious propaganda that folks are completely unaware of.
it's been shown in more than one study that a major flag for a long, healthy life is people who can still sleep in their old age. The meme of the tired granpa is because grandpa is unable to get REM sleep and it's killing him.
You're not watching a suicide, you're watching somebody slowly waste away while you make fun of them.
I've got family saved by medicine and all of it was developed in Europe. We've been in "Austerity" mode since 2008.... for working class folk of course. I just saw a news story the New Jersey approved a $750 million dollar subsidy package for Amazon on the same day they vetoed a minimum wage hike....
but I wish I could stop saying it: the Luddites were real people put out of work by technology in a society where if you don't work you don't eat.
It took a _long_ time for technology to catch up. The Luddites died jobless. Their kids did too. There were decades of unemployment and social strife following the industrial revolution until the twogreatest employment programs in history restored full employment.
The tech that came out of the war (and the mad rush to rebuild the world) kept us going for this long. But the rich don't want another World War. It's their stuff, why would they let us break it? I remember when Pakistan looked the other way when some of their folks attacked India's capital. I was ready for WWIII. Didn't happen. India sucked it down because it would have been bad for business.
This means we're not gonna have wars save us this time. The next industrial revolution is upon us in the form of computerized automation. I've never _once_ heard a credible explanation of exactly what jobs we're all gonna retrain for. That's because there isn't one. You say that it's just that I can't imagine those jobs? That's because by the time they're available I'll be dead and I'll have died dirt poor.
It doesn't have to be that way. We can learn from history for a change. We know technology unemployment is coming. Now's the time to do something about it while we still have some economic power.
I'm willing to grant $25 now as the top end, which is right around the $18/hr adjusted for inflation. Also you're not accounting for layoffs, which are frequent and lengthy.
Moreover to put all that into perspective when my kid graduates from college she's start at around $30-$40/hr (depending on what she wants to do as a RN) and it'll go up from there, eventually topping out around 60/hr.
If I may digress a bit: Electricians without certs, experience and extra training make $13/hr. I know several. Again, why do you think Trump got elected? He promised those guys better jobs and pay. They're hurting. All the blue collar guys are. The factories are gone, the mines are closing and the government is so starved for revenue we're not building anything except the occasional third or fourth mansion for some rich prick. Those things were the blue collar guy's bread and butter.
It's actually causing a big problem socially. Women are earning way more than men because their traditional work hasn't been hit the same way. They also do better in academics because they calm down sooner as kids and sit quietly and learn, where as boys are rambunctious for a longer time in their child hood. Ironically the pay game folks have been banging on about is going to get taken care of by that, but the problem is women aren't interested in men who can't support a family, and we're gonna have a ton of single, angry men with no real jobs and no prospects for women. Traditionally when that happens you get wars.
my experience with older coworkers has not been positive. This isn't going to be a popular thing to say on this forum, but, well, they're often sick, leaving the young guys to do their work. When they're not out sick they seem to have a strong sense of entitlement lacking from the young guys which basically means they're happy to dump their work on them and use their seniority to goof off all day.
Worse, a lot of them have atrophied tech skills. I've seen older coworkers who have to bee kept away from important work because they'll screw it up and make the team look bad. I've seen them repeatedly outmaneuvered when negotiating which team would be responsible for dull, repetitive tasks (which they then stick the young guys with).
I wouldn't care, but bean counters are always looking for teams that do simple, repetitive things and then outsourcing/firing them. In a modern enterprise you're often trying to keep one step ahead of the bean counter's by bringing complex, useful work into your wheelhouse, and every place I've been the old guys just can't do it unless they've been doing it for 20 years.
This is all in line with what we know about age related cognitive decline and just plain what it means to get older. Very few re unaffected by aging. Yes, it happens, but our society has a bad habit of holding freaks of nature up as the norm.
I'd rather see more serious discussions on how to get old folks who are still working to retire sooner. I'm sick and tired of folks who are too sick and tired to be working holding a position they don't particularly want because they need a paycheck after Wallstreet stole their pension and 401k.
WTF? Seriously, what the actual fuck. Do you have any idea what losing 25% of the jobs effectively overnight (that's what "at risk" implies) means? We're a winner take all, if you don't eat you don't work society.
Those people aren't going to go quietly into the good night. Forget violence, a lot will start gunning for _your_ job. It'll be a race to the bottom like you've never seen before where the only winners will be the ones that own the robots pitting us against each other for their profit and amusement. You'll be lucky to make min-wage with a 4 year degree there'll be so many desperate workers.
There's a reason I can get a competent programmer in India for $30k/yr instead of $120k/yr, there's too damn many of them. If you don't want your standard of living to go to hell now's the time to do something about it. And no, buying lottery tickets or hoping your gonna get rich off your MCSE doesn't count.
see here. We're still losing jobs to cheap Mexican labor (and Canadian, since companies go there so they don't have to pay for healthcare) but not at the levels of the 1980s. Germany seems to be doing just fine in the manufacturing sector and they're fully unionized.
I know you're just trolling, but my point stands. We're running out of work most folks can do. Want to see what happens to people that nobody needs and nobody wants? Go look at an Indian reservation before the Casinos. Or Africa. It's a whole new level of poverty.
I worked as an electrician. There were a few building inspectors making 6 figures and the company owner. Everybody else made $13-$18/hr (that's a Journeyman). This was in early 2000s, but wages haven't gone up, I assure you. We're not building much of anything and, well, it's not nice to say this but outside of commercial you're competing with illegals. It's a big part of why Trump won.
As for plumbers, well, again unless you're running your own company it doesn't pay well. It's less skilled than electric (as the joke goes: "Paychecks on Friday, Shit runs down hill, don't bite your nails") so it pays less. The reason your plumber charges so much when you need him is you _need_ him, and he needs the money to stay afloat during the months when you don't.
For the record, I don't know what to tell the kids to do. There's not enough decent paying work out there since the Unions got killed. My kid's gonna be a nurse, which still pays well, but it's killing me to pay for her college.
kids aren't that dumb. Those jobs have been outsourced and "insourced" (e.g. replaced by H1-Bs) non stop for 20 years. Go into medicine kids, Folks want to see their doctor in person. br.
Then again maybe this is folks gunning for jobs that didn't used to need a college degree because companies use degrees as leverage to get H1-Bs and skip training costs.
Slashdot Mirror
but it sure helps.
This is the result of two decades of court packing with pro-corporate justices. This is also what happens when you let money hoarding go unchecked. When it gets to be more money than a person can spend it's not money anymore, it's power.
We've let too much power accumulate into the hands of too few. We're going to start paying the price more and more often.
so I can't resist feeding you a bit more, even though I know we're not supposed to feed the trolls.
WWII doesn't really matter in this context. It's a strawman you're using to distract from my main point, which is that giving all the money to the 1% hasn't stopped them from outsourcing jobs. We just borrowed $1 trillion and gave it to the 1% in the form of tax cuts and they used it for mother f*king stock buy backs. No jobs, no investment.
Companies don't hire because they've got money, they hire to meet demand. That is why demand side economics works and supply side (aka trickle down) fails. That's the "OVERALL" economic picture that you're ignoring.
But you're just an alt-right troll. You're not interested in solving problems or being right, just winning. I'm not the one that figured that out either, this guy is. He's got a whole series of videos on guys like you.
Thing is, if you're being paid it's not enough. Eventually they'll eat you alive. And if you've drunk the kool-aid then stop. It's poisoned. Go watch the videos on the Alt-Right playbook linked above and learn how you've been had.
Trump outpaced Obama for outsourcing and he's a GOPper. We tried your way and it didn't work. Now try mine. It works. It worked in the 50s when we had a 90% top marginal and it'll work now.
is this gonna change how anyone votes in 2020? No? Then so what.
As long as we keep voting in corrupt folks they're gonna keep being corrupt. And once again I'll drop this link to the only wing of any party that makes it a litmus test to refuse corporate PAC money. As always if anyone knows a GOP equivalent I'm all ears.
see here. Never been so happy to be wrong in my life.
Now if we can only take back the $750 million dollar subsidy to an already profitable company...
and Resident Evil 2
that China still calls their military the "China's People's Liberation Army". The people were "Liberated" a long time ago. It's just the army now.
I don't think it matters that we've handed so much manufacturing over to the Chinese. The folks running the show, what we usually call the Ruling Class, are global now. They might have the occasional spat here and there over who's yacht's bigger or who's the richest this week but they're not really fighting (and by extension the countries they run aren't fighting).
I suppose it's a good thing. A World War isn't the solution (though it's one way to kick your economy up a notch). But anything we're seeing here is at best a pissing match between billionaires.
the key is does he think Trump will or not. No telling. I think it's also entirely up to whether Trump's base would get behind a pardon (or at least not notice one).
it's their website.
because I really think he's just a patsy and so are his kids. OTOH they're all pretty arogant and they seem to think they're all real deal makers (there's a interview with I think Ed McMahon where he talks about negotiating with Trump and how he just kept letting him talk until Trump had given up everything).
Trump or his kids might have stuck their nose in where it don't belong instead when they got butthurt over being irrelevant figure heads. If that happened they're sunk. Otherwise I'm not so sure.
Also, WTF is it that we're not freaking out more over Trump doing defacto witness tampering with Cohen? The president of the United States publicly threatened someone's father in law and it barely made the news.
buzzword or not. These kinds of things are a sort of silent increase in efficiency that nobody's talking about. It's much quicker and cheaper to do the maintenance than it is to clean up a mess, but only if you know when to do the maintenance. Otherwise you're stuck spending a fortune on unnecessary maintenance.
This is literally an answer to the old Dilbert joke "I want advanced notice of any unplanned outages, and I want it yesterday". That sounded funny in the 90s, in 2019 somebody did it.
What worries me is when all these little efficiency boosts are applied on a global scale. Folks are gonna bring up the old "break windows to make jobs" hyperbole but that's not what this is. This is massively increasing the efficiency of maintenance done. Imagine if you never had to worry about a car part failing and leaving you stranded because you knew exactly when to do what and for how much. Imagine never paying a mechanic to fix something that didn't need fixing. That's what this is.
the fact that Luddites were violent has nothing to do with their job losses.
Luddite resistance only existed for a few years because they were brutally oppressed.
The discharged soldiers just show that their economy couldn't absorb an uptick in workers. What do you think will happen when we put 10-25% of a population of 350 million+ out of work.
And employers are _always_ complaining about a shortage of employees. Nothing new there.
I'm not saying we should resist these patterns (you're putting words in my mouth). If you want to know what I'm driving at I'm saying we need a society where you can eat even if there's no useful work for you to do. i.e. socialism, UBI or whatever you want to call it.
"The survivors will thank us".
If I can't imagine the job then it's not going to exist on a time frame that matters to me or even my kids. The resulting technology unemployment, OTOH, will exist.
to crush folks via lawsuits.
it's just hyperbole in the article. The scientists are still scientists.
Go watch this for some context and stop attacking science. You're undermining people's belief in science with what are right wing talking points used to cut funding (and therefore taxes) to scientific research.
I don't think you're doing it on purpose and that's what makes it so awful. It's become insidious propaganda that folks are completely unaware of.
it's been shown in more than one study that a major flag for a long, healthy life is people who can still sleep in their old age. The meme of the tired granpa is because grandpa is unable to get REM sleep and it's killing him.
You're not watching a suicide, you're watching somebody slowly waste away while you make fun of them.
I've got family saved by medicine and all of it was developed in Europe. We've been in "Austerity" mode since 2008.... for working class folk of course. I just saw a news story the New Jersey approved a $750 million dollar subsidy package for Amazon on the same day they vetoed a minimum wage hike....
but I wish I could stop saying it: the Luddites were real people put out of work by technology in a society where if you don't work you don't eat.
It took a _long_ time for technology to catch up. The Luddites died jobless. Their kids did too. There were decades of unemployment and social strife following the industrial revolution until the two greatest employment programs in history restored full employment.
The tech that came out of the war (and the mad rush to rebuild the world) kept us going for this long. But the rich don't want another World War. It's their stuff, why would they let us break it? I remember when Pakistan looked the other way when some of their folks attacked India's capital. I was ready for WWIII. Didn't happen. India sucked it down because it would have been bad for business.
This means we're not gonna have wars save us this time. The next industrial revolution is upon us in the form of computerized automation. I've never _once_ heard a credible explanation of exactly what jobs we're all gonna retrain for. That's because there isn't one. You say that it's just that I can't imagine those jobs? That's because by the time they're available I'll be dead and I'll have died dirt poor.
It doesn't have to be that way. We can learn from history for a change. We know technology unemployment is coming. Now's the time to do something about it while we still have some economic power.
I'm willing to grant $25 now as the top end, which is right around the $18/hr adjusted for inflation. Also you're not accounting for layoffs, which are frequent and lengthy.
Moreover to put all that into perspective when my kid graduates from college she's start at around $30-$40/hr (depending on what she wants to do as a RN) and it'll go up from there, eventually topping out around 60/hr.
If I may digress a bit: Electricians without certs, experience and extra training make $13/hr. I know several. Again, why do you think Trump got elected? He promised those guys better jobs and pay. They're hurting. All the blue collar guys are. The factories are gone, the mines are closing and the government is so starved for revenue we're not building anything except the occasional third or fourth mansion for some rich prick. Those things were the blue collar guy's bread and butter.
It's actually causing a big problem socially. Women are earning way more than men because their traditional work hasn't been hit the same way. They also do better in academics because they calm down sooner as kids and sit quietly and learn, where as boys are rambunctious for a longer time in their child hood. Ironically the pay game folks have been banging on about is going to get taken care of by that, but the problem is women aren't interested in men who can't support a family, and we're gonna have a ton of single, angry men with no real jobs and no prospects for women. Traditionally when that happens you get wars.
my experience with older coworkers has not been positive. This isn't going to be a popular thing to say on this forum, but, well, they're often sick, leaving the young guys to do their work. When they're not out sick they seem to have a strong sense of entitlement lacking from the young guys which basically means they're happy to dump their work on them and use their seniority to goof off all day.
Worse, a lot of them have atrophied tech skills. I've seen older coworkers who have to bee kept away from important work because they'll screw it up and make the team look bad. I've seen them repeatedly outmaneuvered when negotiating which team would be responsible for dull, repetitive tasks (which they then stick the young guys with).
I wouldn't care, but bean counters are always looking for teams that do simple, repetitive things and then outsourcing/firing them. In a modern enterprise you're often trying to keep one step ahead of the bean counter's by bringing complex, useful work into your wheelhouse, and every place I've been the old guys just can't do it unless they've been doing it for 20 years.
This is all in line with what we know about age related cognitive decline and just plain what it means to get older. Very few re unaffected by aging. Yes, it happens, but our society has a bad habit of holding freaks of nature up as the norm.
I'd rather see more serious discussions on how to get old folks who are still working to retire sooner. I'm sick and tired of folks who are too sick and tired to be working holding a position they don't particularly want because they need a paycheck after Wallstreet stole their pension and 401k.
WTF? Seriously, what the actual fuck. Do you have any idea what losing 25% of the jobs effectively overnight (that's what "at risk" implies) means? We're a winner take all, if you don't eat you don't work society.
Those people aren't going to go quietly into the good night. Forget violence, a lot will start gunning for _your_ job. It'll be a race to the bottom like you've never seen before where the only winners will be the ones that own the robots pitting us against each other for their profit and amusement. You'll be lucky to make min-wage with a 4 year degree there'll be so many desperate workers.
There's a reason I can get a competent programmer in India for $30k/yr instead of $120k/yr, there's too damn many of them. If you don't want your standard of living to go to hell now's the time to do something about it. And no, buying lottery tickets or hoping your gonna get rich off your MCSE doesn't count.
see here. We're still losing jobs to cheap Mexican labor (and Canadian, since companies go there so they don't have to pay for healthcare) but not at the levels of the 1980s. Germany seems to be doing just fine in the manufacturing sector and they're fully unionized.
I know you're just trolling, but my point stands. We're running out of work most folks can do. Want to see what happens to people that nobody needs and nobody wants? Go look at an Indian reservation before the Casinos. Or Africa. It's a whole new level of poverty.
I worked as an electrician. There were a few building inspectors making 6 figures and the company owner. Everybody else made $13-$18/hr (that's a Journeyman). This was in early 2000s, but wages haven't gone up, I assure you. We're not building much of anything and, well, it's not nice to say this but outside of commercial you're competing with illegals. It's a big part of why Trump won.
As for plumbers, well, again unless you're running your own company it doesn't pay well. It's less skilled than electric (as the joke goes: "Paychecks on Friday, Shit runs down hill, don't bite your nails") so it pays less. The reason your plumber charges so much when you need him is you _need_ him, and he needs the money to stay afloat during the months when you don't.
For the record, I don't know what to tell the kids to do. There's not enough decent paying work out there since the Unions got killed. My kid's gonna be a nurse, which still pays well, but it's killing me to pay for her college.
kids aren't that dumb. Those jobs have been outsourced and "insourced" (e.g. replaced by H1-Bs) non stop for 20 years. Go into medicine kids, Folks want to see their doctor in person.
br. Then again maybe this is folks gunning for jobs that didn't used to need a college degree because companies use degrees as leverage to get H1-Bs and skip training costs.
Deficits only matter when a Democrat is in charge.