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FBI Arrests Trump Associate Roger Stone Over His Communications With WikiLeaks (nytimes.com)
Roger J. Stone Jr., a longtime informal adviser to President Trump, was charged as part of the special counsel investigation over his communications with WikiLeaks, the organization behind the release of thousands of stolen Democratic emails during the 2016 campaign, in an indictment unsealed Friday.
From a report: Mr. Stone was charged with seven counts, including obstruction of an official proceeding, making false statements and witness tampering, according to the special counsel's office. F.B.I. agents arrested Mr. Stone before dawn on Friday at his home in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., and he was expected to appear in a federal courthouse there later in the morning. F.B.I. agents were also seen carting hard drives and other evidence from Mr. Stone's apartment in Harlem.
The indictment is the first in months by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, who is investigating Russia's interference in the 2016 election and possible coordination with Trump campaign associates. Citing details in emails and other forms of communications, the indictment suggests Mr. Trump's campaign knew about additional stolen emails before they were released and asked Mr. Stone to find out about them. Moments ago, Stone was released on a $250,000 bond.
The indictment is the first in months by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, who is investigating Russia's interference in the 2016 election and possible coordination with Trump campaign associates. Citing details in emails and other forms of communications, the indictment suggests Mr. Trump's campaign knew about additional stolen emails before they were released and asked Mr. Stone to find out about them. Moments ago, Stone was released on a $250,000 bond.
nothing to see here
Looks like they're finding a lot of witches.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
hundreds more traitors to go.
They really have Trump where they want him now...
I thought this is slashdot.org, and not pmsnbc.com?
All Republicans are confused, yes. By definition.
The freaky detail on this is that Stone has a richard nixon tattoo (not kidding). And he's being indicted for orchestrating a conspiracy to obstruct justice. Fate?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Every weekday night on the NBC TV show, Late Night with Seth Meyers, Seth Meyers begins his show with TV clips showing what foolish or dishonest things President Trump did. That segment of his show is called A Closer Look. The segments generally have more than 2 million views.
Roger Stone, probably more than any other single treasonous lying scumbag faggot Trump associate, pretty much caught himself at least on these particular charges. Much more to come for these traitors, lol.
Where is my delicious popcorn.
This isn't his first treasonous rodeo either.
"Only took two years!" cries the retard whose only knowledge of investigations comes from CSI:Miami.
... for Trump to play victim. There's two ways to look at this as I see it:
1) Trump is totally incompetent and stupid that he has no idea what his people are doing. This plays against his image of being the guy in control.
2) Trump is totally involved since it's all his buddies that seem to be getting arrested and convicted.
Trump is a lucky guy, he's had all these criminals around him and didn't even know it! It's fortunate that the authorities have found them out before any of these scoundrels had a chance to take advantage of him.
Fuck that guy. He's a real piece of work.
- In Soviet Korea, only old people loose all their bases to Natalie Portman's petrified hot grits overlords.
Why so many lies to the FBI if there was nothing to hide?
Government breakdown: In 730 days, President Trump has made 8,158 false or misleading claims
Why is this here?
Somehow I can't associate that charge with anything related to communication with Wikileaks. Would he asks for his secretary to handle his encrypted Wikileaks emails and then bribe that person to not to talk to the FBI?
They mentioned WikiLeaks!
It's all good!
AND - Trump at one time talked to Elon Musk and Stone talked to Trump -so we're still good! And I bet Stone paid some of his people with cryptocurrency - so even better!
Evidence, properly collected and protected, is not released until an indictment is made. It might amount to nothing, but just declaring there’s nothing before the evidence is released doesn’t make it true.
But he has managed to do what Obama never could.
One by one all these unsavory assholes are being brought to justice for the decades of sleazy shit they did.
The ivan bots coming.
Except there is evidence right there in the indictment to support the charges. If you bothered to read it that is.
I look forward to reading Wiki Leaks to see what is really happening.
The U.S. government is not functioning in a healthy way!!! That affects all of us.
No treason no collusion just bumbling associates
Exactly, all these dumb shits talking about treason, no one charge of treason. Not one. All we have is a bunch of Trump dummies lying to prosecutors to avoid talking about previous wrongdoings, none of which involve treason.
He's arrested for allegedly lying about how he communicated with wikileaks to "leak" information about Hillary's email server AFTER the election
To wit - he's being charged for a process crime about Hillary running a private email server for which she was NEVER charged and NEVER had CNN show up with along with SWAT team to her door - instead she got to negotiate how much she would testify about.
You can hate Trump all you want as well as Hillary but you have to be concerned about this blatant corruption in our government.
No obstruction! No collusion! :-)
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Actually, you have blown our cover. Very clever of you to deduce this.
The timing was right to address a part of America that we normally don't have time or money to adjust.
We elected Donald Trump in order to bring him down, along with his cohorts and family members.
Look: The situation was a perfect storm for us: Clinton had too much baggage. She didn't address the under-educated poor white women of the Rust Belt. She was Obama 2.0., and the list goes on.
Added to that, Bernie Sanders was a significant spoiler. The Democratic party had groomed Clinton for years. She was supposed to be the only Democratic candidate and it should have been a walk-off.
Trump did not want to win. His plan was to feed his ego and crank up "Trump TV," where he could tap into revenue streams similar to Limbaugh, Coulter, and Hannity.
He would outperform his favourite Fox News Network with over the top conservatism and rabid white supremacy, feeding raw meat to his core.
Well, we screwed that. It makes sense now, doesn't it? Take out the organized crime connection to Russia when the opportunity presented itself. Prior to the election, Trump and his gang were too low-profile. We elevated that situation to the level of close inspection by every American citizen.
We got him.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
ORANGE MAN GOOD!!!
I really hope, America deserve much better than this Orange Hair Clown!!!
Let's make America great Again, Let's kick this bunch of "Amateur" OUT!!!
the indictment suggested that Mr. Trumpâ(TM)s campaign knew about additional stolen emails before they were released and asked Mr. Stone to find out about them.
Ken
"Obstruction of justice" means:
(1) They can't find any charges on you, so they blame you for making the investigation fruitless
(2) You aren't helping bring down people who are in the "correct" political party.
The DOJ should stop trying to enforce their political opinions on everyone
Getting Trump elected was the biggest sting of all time? You read way too much reddit.
He was arrested for "making false statements." That is exactly the reason you shouldn't talk to cops, because even if you are completely innocent they can convict you based on a slip-up in the interview. Martha Stewart was arrested for the same thing.
Now, we should definitely let Meuller keep doing his thing, and find any evidence of collusion, but for impeachment they need to find something better than "making false statements" in an interview with cops.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The indictment is 24 pages long. I'm going through it, but this is part of the introduction (which goes on for 20 pages until the first count). In the indictment, they use the term "Organization 1", which I have replaced with "WikiLeaks".
1. By in or around May 2016, the Democratic National Committee ("DNC") and the
Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee ("DCCC") became aware that their computer
systems had been compromised by unauthorized intrusions and hired a security company
("Company 1") to identify the extent of the intrusions.
2. On or about June 14, 2016, the DNC—through Company 1—publicly announced that it
had been hacked by Russian government actors.
3. From in or around July 2016 through in or around November 2016, an organization
("WikiLeaks"), which had previously posted documents stolen by others from U.S. persons,
entities, and the U.S. government, released tens of thousands of documents stolen from the DNC
and the personal email account of the chairman of the U.S. presidential campaign of Hillary
Clinton ("Clinton Campaign").
a. On or about July 22, 2016, WikiLeaks released documents stolen from the
DNC.
b. Between on or about October 7, 2016 and on or about November 7, 2016,
WikiLeaks released approximately 33 tranches of documents that had been
stolen from the personal email account of the Clinton Campaign chairman, totaling
over 50,000 stolen documents.
4. ROGER JASON STONE, JR. was a political consultant who worked for decades in U.S.
politics and on U.S. political campaigns. STONE was an official on the U.S. presidential campaign
of Donald J. Trump ("Trump Campaign") until in or around August 2015, and maintained regular
contact with and publicly supported the Trump Campaign through the 2016 election.
5. During the summer of 2016, STONE spoke to senior Trump Campaign officials about
WikiLeaks and information it might have had that would be damaging to the Clinton
Campaign. STONE was contacted by senior Trump Campaign officials to inquire about future
releases by WikiLeaks.
6. By in or around early August 2016, STONE was claiming both publicly and privately to
have communicated with WikiLeaks. By in or around mid-August 2016, WikiLeaks made
a public statement denying direct communication with STONE. Thereafter, STONE said that his
communication with WikiLeaks had occurred through a person STONE described as a "mutual
friend," "go-between," and "intermediary." STONE also continued to communicate with members
of the Trump Campaign about WikiLeaks and its intended future releases.
I'll stop there. So, Russians attack the DNC. WikiLeaks releases stolen DNC documents, presumably obtained from the attackers, Russians. During the time period when WikiLeaks was releasing the DNC documents obtained from the Russians, Stone was talking to Trump's campaign about the leaks, and the Trump campaign contacted Stone and directed him to ask WikiLeaks about future releases. Stone then claimed publicly that he had been communicating with WikiLeaks, before then denying that he had done so. And he continued to communicate with the Trump campaign about what WikiLeaks intended to release in the future.
So, Russians steal DNC documents, give them to WikiLeaks, and Stone acts as an intermediary between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks, holder of the documents stolen by Russia, about when those documents are going to be released. Stone was specifically asked by the campaign to communicate with WikiLeaks about the release of documents stolen by Russians. This is where the claims of collusion are starting to coagulate.
Then, since everyone did everything just fine, and there was No Collusion(tm), this happened:
7. After the 2016 U.S. presidential election, the U.S. House of Representatives Permanent
Select Committee on Intellig
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Not that I ever feel sorry for criminals, but him getting elected was the worst thing that could have happened to them.
On some level, I find this completely hilarious. He likely thought that he was invincible now. Looking forward to him trying to pardon himself when he is up personally. He will probably make history as the worst scum to ever be a US president.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
And why he would be indicted with stuff instead of other things is because it's a simple charge to make stick - did he lie under oath? Bigly. Did he intimidate a witness / suborn perjury? Yup.
He's going to go jail and the only question is for how long. That depends on his cooperation with the investigation or not.
You ask me if I went to the store last night. I say no.
You ask my wife if I went to a store last night. She says yes.
You charge me for lying.
Turns out, I went to the gas station.
A) Did I actually lie?
B) Does it actually matter?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Well, the DOJ did find Clinton and Kavanaugh innocent of wrong doing.
Clinton: 20+ years of nonstop partisan driven investigations originating from congress and an FBI field office that is widely known for hating Hillary. From the present House minority leader: "We are doing a great job driving her poll numbers down."
Kavanaugh: 4 days including the weekend to make a determination and here is a long list of things you cannot look into.
Yep. The investigations into these two individuals was exactly the same.
"There appears to be incredible amounts of no evidence." - Except for his own text messages black-letter outlining his obstruction effort? Except that, no evidence. Right. Excellent job Mr. Giuliani, you've done it again lol!
Wait, what is that cop doing with the handcuffs? I'm being oppressed!
Good? I mean, the point of an investigation is to investigate possible crimes. So if the investigation is allowed to run its course and uncovers the extent of the illegal activity (which can't properly be determined without an investigation), then you can't help but be satisfied with whatever the result ends up being. Foreign intervention in domestic politics is a very serious matter and there clearly were several foreign contacts in play. That would seem to indicate that investigating the matter fully is in the best interests of the American people. The other side of the debate is essentially people shouting "No collusion!" and "Witch hunt!" and sidestepping the merits of the case by trying to paint the people involved as being biased, somewhat akin to the Chewbacca defense. Given this and the number of key players who have been lying to the investigators, it should come as no surprise that the investigation has gone on this long. The point is that it isn't being cut short due to external interference, so any outcome is a win for the rule of law.
They are stupid lies - notice how there's rarely a crime alleged when Mueller charges someone with lying?
For example, manafort lied about a perfectly legal and appropriate meeting with the Russian ambassador, the issue was CHI had a transcript of call, and manafort lied about conversation. Woo-hoo, that's good for ten years hard time!
Ken
There's 20 pages of evidence in the indictment. Feel free to actually read what you're trying to sound intelligent about.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Go and read the indictment and stop pretending this was some minor slip-up.
No, he wasn't. He was arrested for black-letter obstruction including threats, AND lying to the FBI. Not false statements, LYING TO THE FBI. False statements = everything Trump ever uttered since before Vietnam.
Weave a better basket you cunt, you deserve the combination sink/toilet too you lying faggot.
Obstruction of Proceeding, 5 counts of false statements, and Witness Tampering. And, what were his false statements about? Being the go-between for the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks regarding documents that were stolen from the DNC by Russians. Those 7 counts against Stone are enough to put the old man away for the rest of his life, so with that mind we'll see what he has to say about Trump. Maybe he'll admit which senior campaign officials directed him to contact WikiLeaks about the documents stolen by the Russians.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
That depends on his cooperation with the investigation or not.
From what I heard, the prosecution is saying there should be no credit for cooperation.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Except there is evidence right there in the indictment to support the charges. If you bothered to read it that is.
Except there isn't, if you bothered to read it. Since it relies on the testimony of another person who lied through their teeth so badly that they can't even be considered a witness now.
But let's shake this out so everyone gets it:
Stone voluntarily makes statements to the FBI.
Stone voluntarily surrendered his passport and ageed to various restrictions that haven't been broken. And is effectively a zero flight risk.
The entire case boils down to 'process crimes' which effectively amount to railroading a person because what they said didn't match exactly what they said previously(which is what the docket says).
FBI engages in pre-dawn no-nock raid with 30+ armed agents in full tactical gear(now ask yourself why).
He's been released on 250k bail, and the original sureties still stand that he hasn't broken.
Is that making any sense to anyone?
Now add in some of the other stuff like refusal to disclose a full defense to other individuals as required as law. Or that Muller and his cadre of lawyers some of which are known, have repeatedly fallen back to this tactic when they can't actually find anything to nail a person with. And this was the same method that was used in the Enron case...where nearly everyone got off free, because the courts found those actions(the same as these) a gross violation of civil and legal rights and protections.
Yeah good times or something.
Om, nomnomnom...
A) Yes, because they asked you 15 different ways and you lied about all of them and B) that depends, do you like cafeteria food and orange jumpsuits, toilet wine? You'll have a gay old time, Trump traitor! Enjoy your new life.
Go away Ivan.
ACTUALLY, the "news source" in question was Fox, which was proven to have lied right before your eyes over 50 times, and you tried instead to pretend Comedy Central was the one debunking it. Nope. Wrong again, Trump traitor!
When you get caught lying, the first thing you need to do is look around and see if there are any cripples or old people you can push over to make your cowardly escape. Don't try to fight the facts, you will fucking die horribly.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and...
Another reason to NEVER talk to the FBI without a lawyer.
George Papadopoulos Pled guilty to making false statements to the FBI
Paul Manafort - indicted on a total of 25 different counts related mainly to his past work for Ukrainian politicians and his finances.
Rick Gates - pled guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.
Michael Flynn - pled guilty to making false statements to the FBI.
Richard Pinedo: pled guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments
Alex van der Zwaan: pled guilty to making false statements to the FBI
Michael Cohen: pled guilty to 8 counts — tax and bank charges, related to his finances and taxi business, and campaign finance violations
Roger Stone: accused Stone of lying to the House Intelligence Committee
lefty comedy show ?
Leftists lack credibility which is why you have failed.
You should probably read more history.
There appears to be incredible amounts of no evidence.
Have you read the indictment? You understand he was indicted by a grand jury right? Do you know how that works? Where exactly did you get your law degree?
The evidence of the text and emails he made are right there in the indictment. The evidence will be easy for any jury or judge to understand. He's toast. It's kind of pathetic to rationalise this away and yet...
Hold on. How the fuck does that dumb analogy have anything to do with the 24-page indictment against Stone. Have you read it?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Well the "point" of that traitor's little lie was to insist that the FBI had cleared both Kavanaugh and HRC of "any wrongdoing" which was false. HRC was found to have committed offenses, but they were not proven intentional and thus fell below the traditional threshold others faced in such prosecutions, which under the "equal enforcement" clause of the Constitution would pretty much ensure a slap on the wrist at most. Whereas Kavanaugh was investigated for like 48 hours and they didn't even talk to principal witnesses, so calling him "cleared" by virtue of that is as laughable as saying "boofing" means flatulence, "Renate alumnius" is his shout out to a great female friend he really respects, "devil's triangle" is a drinking game, and lying about your past is acceptable for a Supreme Court Justice facing a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land. I will watch Kavanaugh be removed for cause, and I will watch HRC's charity get shut down.
But not before I watch Trump do the perp walk like Stone, the treasonous cowards truly should hang for their crimes against this country and our Constitution.
A) Inconclusive, the person asking the question is clearly incompetent (is it "the store" or "a store," which store, what counts as a store, when last night, etc.). Now, if the question were "Did you leave your house last night between 10pm and midnight?" and you said no despite going to the gas station at 11pm, then yes, you did lie. If you said you only went to a store on the other side of town, again, you lied. That's how lies work.
B) If there was a shooting at the gas station at 11pm last night, then it matters. If someone claims that a person matching your description brandished a weapon, it matters. If there is evidence that a crime was committed and there is reason to believe that you were involved, it matters, even if you didn't actually commit a crime. If lying during your questioning is a crime, then your lies constitute a crime even if the thing you're lying about doesn't. That's how crimes work.
There's 20 pages of evidence in the indictment. Feel free to actually read what you're trying to sound intelligent about.
Did you actually read my post? Or just the top tier sarcasm of the title?
There are mountains of evidence that have been released already. I'm pretty certain there is a Tsunami of evidence we don't know about yet.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
If he admits it after being arrested then I'll applaud Mueller for his hardball investigation strategies. But let's not pretend this is a smoking gun. This arrest is exploration (of course, Mueller knows things he isn't telling)
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
He is Hydra.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/21/us/mueller-trump-charges.html - they made nice interactive graphics for illiterate treasonous faggots just like you, lol.
But you don't understand, the biggest liar wins. Check our record.
What a sad way to live life. Both sides are corrupt and will always be corrupt, and you will remain angry about it forever. Go outside sometime and enjoy life.
Not that I ever feel sorry for criminals, but him getting elected was the worst thing that could have happened to them.
On some level, I find this completely hilarious. He likely thought that he was invincible now. Looking forward to him trying to pardon himself when he is up personally. He will probably make history as the worst scum to ever be a US president.
I guess it's greed and avarice when taken to an extreme. I know if I were acting as a criminal, I'd fly as far below the radar as possible, and plan everything out to stay that way. But criminal greed and avarice knows no bounds I suppose, and always trips itself up.
Something tells me there will be a broad relaxation to the statutes of limitation, in which he might be offered to resign, or else be handcuffed as soon as he walks out of the White House in 2021.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
We need an updated and complete list of charged traitors, the newest one I can find is from September. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/21/us/mueller-trump-charges.html
They are stupid lies
You mean that lying to Congress is stupid? Yes, we agree.
If you're suggesting that the things that they're lying about are inconsequential, keep in mind that these people thought the lesser of evils was a federal crime of lying to Congress.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Except there is evidence right there in the indictment to support the charges. If you bothered to read it that is.
Read the whole post, not just the title, which was sarcasm.
"There appears to be incredible amounts of no evidence" should have been the real clue.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
A misleading, yeah dare I say false headline being used in the SlashDot feed; Stone was not arrested over his communications with wiki-leaks. He was indicted for allegedly lying to the investigation. Another process crime against the investigation, rather than indictment of a criminal act discovered by the investigation.
This is some Soviet style secret police justice here. Stalin's head of secret police, Lavrentiy Beria, once famously said "Show me the man and I will show you the crime". They keep manufacturing crimes derived from their own investigation and never manage to find any espionage crimes to charge.
Debunk it or shove your head further up your ass. It's really your choice. Nobody is laughing at the "comedy" in those 50 lies, really. This is the death of your party we're laughing at.
Again, have you read the actual indictment? They list the text messages. They show the actual lies. They show him threatening potential witnesses. Hell, they show him threatening the pets of potential witnesses.
He doesn't have to admit anything, it's already there. And if you've got a liar, are you really going to put a lot of stock into whether or not they admit to it? You've got evidence that he did specific things, in writing. Then you ask him, and he says no, I never did those specific things. That's a lie. So, start applauding.
The thing to not lose sight of is that Stone is not the target, Trump is. This isn't victory, it's just the next domino.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
ORANGE MAN BAD GOOD
You're a moron. His text messages are his, it's a smoking gun as far as these charges of obstruction, which you already got caught lying about, faggot traitor.
There are other things besides collusion.
There's the basic mistake of attacking every critic including the FBI, the failing NYT, Wapo, every goddam Trump aid, and so on.
Remember that Trump never bothered to replace Obama's staff at the mid-lower levels of government, especially the FBI.
Those people are pranking Trump all over hell's half an acre with leaks and the intent to bolster the indictment count.
Trump has fired all the competent advisers in his hive and is left with celebrities like himself who know nothing about politics.
Pelosi knows where all the dead bodies are. She's got those left-over Obama loyalists aiding her.
It don't get any better than that. Hell, Trunp's core is crumbling and imploding down to a few batshit crazy, rabid certified nut wings.
You know: Like Giuliani.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
This story had nothing to do with the military, neither did the parent that you responded to. Are you mentally challenged?
Here's a simpler summary of events:
1. A journalistic organization publicly publishes dirt on a political campaign.
2. A rival political campaign contacts the journalistic organization inquiring about any other potential dirt.
3. A member (associate ?) of that political campaign lies to federal authorities about contacting the journalistic organization.
4. Member (associate ?) of that political campaign charged with lying to federal authorities.
Yeah, lying to the feds is bad. Is there anything else shocking or illegal in these events? There doesn't seem to be.
Trump is scum.
If you don't know that by now, you're probably scum too.
That's because most people don't know what treason is. It is literally aiding our enemies. As much as we might hate Russia, until we've declared war on them, we can't be treasonous with them.
I forgot.
Have gnu, will travel.
President Trump is indicted for Conspiracy, Racketeering, Obstruction of Justice, and Perjury.
Sarah Huckabee Sanders rushes to the podium to announce: This was a personal matter! President Trump has nothing to do with the White House or the Trump Administration. This wasn't a crime and even if it was a crime, it wouldn't be criminal. Witch hunt! We don't know this "Donald J. Trump" person, he only worked for us for a short time and wasn't very important. MAGA! Lock her up but don't lock him up, this man we don't know. We employ the best people!
Bzzzt, snap, sparks. Working... Collusion is not a crime! Everything I say is a lie, but if I'm lying, then I'm telling the truth...
(Robot lurches to a halt on full display in Press Room, smoke pouring out of it).
They are stupid lies - notice how there's rarely a crime alleged when Mueller charges someone with lying?
For example, manafort lied about a perfectly legal and appropriate meeting with the Russian ambassador, the issue was CHI had a transcript of call, and manafort lied about conversation. Woo-hoo, that's good for ten years hard time!
That's what got Bill Clinton in trouble... lying about something that (whereas immoral), was illegal. It's also what got Nixon in trouble, lying about knowledge of what happened in Watergate. (he wasn't actually involved in planning that- he just found out about it later and denied knowing).
Lying to congress always has got people in trouble.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Obviously I meant "was legal" not "was illegal" unless my subconscious knows something my conscious doesn't! :)
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
The evidence of the text and emails he made are right there in the indictment. The evidence will be easy for any jury or judge to understand. He's toast. It's kind of pathetic to rationalise this away and yet...
There will be some people who will never admit the world is not flat, that we landed on the moon, that O'Blama is an American Citizen, or that there is any evidence of Russian interference, collusion, or criminal acts. They still think PizzaGate is real.
I read the document. Stone isn't in a real good place, no matter what the kooks think.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
This is how they trick Trump into pardoning him before they've hit them with the REAL charges, cementing Trump's removal, which then triggers the Damocles sword. Mueller has this shit wrapped up like Christmas.
Evidence, properly collected and protected, is not released until an indictment is made. It might amount to nothing, but just declaring there’s nothing before the evidence is released doesn’t make it true.
Come on folks - read my whole post, not just the headline.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
There appears to be incredible amounts of no evidence.
Have you read the indictment? You understand he was indicted by a grand jury right? Do you know how that works? Where exactly did you get your law degree?
Sigh.... yes, I've read it. Stone is in a big pile of self inflicted shit. But doesn't anyone get that when a person writes "incredible amounts of no evidence" that he's meaning there is actually a lot of evidence?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Stone was questioned, at great length, about wikileaks ages ago.
I don't Mueller's latest PR stunt was specifically about wikileaks.
Former President Park of South Korea tried that defense a few years ago, and she didn't get the funny mod points. She got a long prison sentence.
Right now I think there are two big differences here: (1) She's young enough that she may get out of prison someday. (2) The South Korean government is much more honest than America under #PresidentTweety.
I'm not sure how similar Roger Stone is to Choi Tae-min, but it was the close advisor's arrest that soon led to the arrest of Park. I want to refer to her as Inmate #x, but I can't find the number.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Yeah, innocent people always quote The Godfather to imply threats against your family, and explicitly threaten your dog. To try to get you to not testify. Because, Tuesday?
LOL
... which means they don't need him to go after Trump.
All of the indictments relating to the Mueller investigation have been over missteps by people being interrogated by the Mueller investigation! I mean come one one guy was indicted for lying under oath because he was at a function with a Russian official and shook his hand but didn't realize who he was so when asked if he had met him he said no.
>> including obstruction of an official proceeding, making false statements and witness tampering
Misstep? I suppose if I put Infowars glasses on these are simple misunderstandings and Hillary and Obama should be in jail or something, but sorry, we live in the real world.
Don't forget about the emails. He had emails!!! LOCK `IM UP!!!
Fucking morons. "Perhaps the computer isn't testifying honestly."
Yes, it makes sense; you started with smaller lies, then events caused you to double down, and now you're running in circles batshit crazy merely because you were wrong and dishonest at the same time, and are constitutionally unable to confess and return to sane thoughts.
Time to buy a cabin and start working on your manifesto. There is no other way this can end for you.
Actually I think there is a strong relationship between journalism and technology in general. Also some sort of relationship between Wikileaks and Slashdot in particular.
It is clear that journalism is in trouble these years. I think most of the problems are related to bad economic models. For example, Slashdot can't be improved because the economic model is so broken. Also, much of Wikileaks destructive behavior was driven by the need to generate the kind of publicity that would produce funding.
Don't want to spend too much time on this, but I'll just summarize some of my ontology of economic models:
(1) Public service. Broken
(2) Advertising. Broken.
(3) Propaganda. Not only broken, but trying to break society.
(4) Winner take all. Most broken after the winner is decided.
(5) Big-donor charity. Broken by bad decisions.
(6) Small-donor charity. Can't find a good one.
(7) Solution driven. Amusing theory, that.
Time's up, so I bid you ADSAuPR, atAJG.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
I suppose that depends on whether Stone suddenly proffers up something of genuine value to the investigation. Or maybe Mueller is all done with flipping people. I can't say I have any sympathy with Stone if he spends the rest of his life behind bars.
All of the indictments relating to the Mueller investigation have been over missteps by people being interrogated by the Mueller investigation!
lol
A person is smart.
son, you're dumber than a sack of hammers. delete your sig.
I don't read reddit at all. Why the simple fuck would I?
They aren't a more valid source than say, Facebook, right?
Those people don't know bullshit from wild honey.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
"There appears to be incredible amounts of no evidence" should have been the real clue.
These are weird times we're living in, man. I forget which law or theory it is that says it's increasingly difficult to differentiate real opinion from sarcasm online, because enough people who actually have those opinions post online. You can see people claiming that there is no evidence in this very thread.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
It isn't at all clear to me that Stone will go to jail unless they can stick him on some state charges, too. If it's only a federal rap, then #PresidentTweety is certain to pardon him for his "brave" silence.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
You mean all the NWO operative Generals appointed by the closet faggot Obama after he fired the real Men that were running the military? Yeah, they quit rather than end up at the end of a rope.
The light hurts his eyes
Cue the desperate "Roger who?!?" tweets from the toddler-in-chief!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
No, I did not get that "incredible amounts of no evidence" meant that there is a lot of evidence. I honestly didn't get that you were being sarcastic until I got to "popcorn and tequila".
Given the number of times I've seen you defend yourself in this thread, it's probably a good time to reconsider whether your sarcasm wasn't properly telegraphed (not a criticism, it's incredibly difficult to do in written communications).
He was arrested for "making false statements." That is exactly the reason you shouldn't talk to cops, because even if you are completely innocent they can convict you based on a slip-up in the interview
Not really.
You can of course, decline to talk to law enforcement. But once you agree to talk to them, you are required to tell the truth, because lying to them can be considered obstruction of justice.
Let's say I know you robbed a bank, but I agree to talk to the police and in my interview I instead tell them you were with me on a beach at the time. If I do that, then my lie about you being on the beach with me has obstructed justice - That's a crime. That isn't a "slip-up in the interview" - This is an outright lie. Same deal here.
"Tick, tick. tick..."
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
This is all true, but it's also important to understand why he did it.
First you need to know who Stone is. He's a very savvy and powerful political actor and has been for decades. He's much more powerful and influential than most people understand. He's almost primarily responsible for the voice and direction and tone of GOP politics since the Reagan era. He's not just some flunky working for Trump.
He did these things because, frankly, he's used to working with complete impunity. He's not doing anything he hasn't done before and is used to working in the muck and the slime and the dirty underbelly of politics. That's his job, and he does it by staying out of the spotlight. The people that benefit from his work pretend he doesn't exist or isn't important and go on their way.
The only reason he's going to be (quite likely) thrown in jail for the rest of his life is that he accidentally got Trump elected and that has brought all of his nonsense under the full scrutiny of the public and powers that be.
Anyone who's known about Stone and what he does is not the least bit surprised.
Trump isn't going to pardon him just like he's not going to Pardon Manafort. He'll use the excuse the crimes were unrelated to him just like he did with Cohen. Trump isn't loyal, he never has been, it's why it's so Ironic that he demands it. He'll gladly throw anyone to the wolves to save himself.
but when are they going to arrest any Democrat for blatantly lying before Congress about running arms to al-Qaeda and Mexican drug lords
When they actually do that. Turns out Inforwars isn't the best source of reality.
(Fast and Furious, btw, was a program started under W's administration. It had strict rules about the guns and following them....until one DEA agent broke all the rules about distributing guns, got caught, and started screaming to certain media outlets to cover his own ass. Difficult to indict a "whistle-blower" and Holder didn't want to try.)
giving $billions to Iran
That would be the Reagan administration.
having the GCHQ spy on the opposing party's candidates
[Citation Required]. No need have GCHQ do it when there's already a FISA warrant.
or any of a half dozen other scandals that would have gotten anyone other than America's First Black President impeached
Yeah, like Pizzagate, right? How'd you guys figure out to cover over the fact that the building doesn't have a basement?
It turns out, you don't have to actually tell the truth to put a story into the media. Lots of people will believe you are telling the truth when you're lying about, say, birth certificates. And many of a certain set of people will gladly eat up the tabloid reporting, so the tabloids keep doing it.
No, what I am saying is this will play out the same way, regardless if I am sad or happy. I choose not to be sad and angry everyday like you are.
Trump could go to jail, or he might not, but do not let it consume your life.
The real crime here is the suggestion "don't talk to the FBI". That is witness tampering, according to the FBI. Of course, according to the ACLU, it's good advice. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/stops-and-arrests-what-do-when-encountering-law-enforcement
They think Pence will save them, lol. Pence is happy to do his denialist work while he's not charged with a crime, let's see what happens when he IS. I have zero doubt, Pence knew something. We'll see if they have evidence of it.
I think it's pretty damn likely. You don't just get into bed with Paul Manafort and Oleg Deripaska without knowing why.
Hahaha oh boy english is your 3rd language isn't it?
Let's unpack your statement so we can laugh at you.
"Witch hunts and suppression of speech"
" telltale signs of a fascist regime"
"medieval time."
MEDIEVAL TIME? Hoo boy in 'medieval time' most people were farmers and nobody gave a fuck what they said. Free speech was not an issue because nobody gave a fuck what you said about the king because it wasn't going to travel far outside the confines of your little hamlet. For this reason we actually know very little about the lives of common people of the era... aside from the payment of taxes their entire lives went unrecorded. There was no fascism because would be authoritarian elements were barely aware of the existence, let alone the words, of people that they didn't like.
Stop coming here to shill you can't afford the sort of salary that would be demanded by any person capable of keeping up with normal conversation
Mister Trump, you must be choking a little right now from the smell of all the smoking guns that surround you. I'd be panicking more than a little if I were you, too.
Ivan's telling the truth this time.
because I really think he's just a patsy and so are his kids. OTOH they're all pretty arogant and they seem to think they're all real deal makers (there's a interview with I think Ed McMahon where he talks about negotiating with Trump and how he just kept letting him talk until Trump had given up everything).
Trump or his kids might have stuck their nose in where it don't belong instead when they got butthurt over being irrelevant figure heads. If that happened they're sunk. Otherwise I'm not so sure.
Also, WTF is it that we're not freaking out more over Trump doing defacto witness tampering with Cohen? The president of the United States publicly threatened someone's father in law and it barely made the news.
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You are seriously a fucking idiot.
For the same reason that the biggest thread of all time was on 9-11.
You won faggot now get over it. Eat your shame.
Shut up traitor!
Orange man bad! ORANGE MAN BAD!
So the Watergate scandal was when the individuals hired by the Nixon campaign broke into the DNC HQ and stole documents and bugged communications.
This current scandal is when a foreign state (Russia) offered to hack the DNC to steal documents and communications in order to assist the Trump campaign. (make no mistake, this is fucking illegal. Treasonous when a foreign state gets involved.)
Present arrests are mostly related to people lying about what they knew when, and effectively stonewalling the investigation of the above.
Muller already has enough evidence to go to the top, but he is building a tidal wave of flipped cronies on his way in order to prevent any weaseling.
At the rate this is going, it is only a matter of time before we hear that Donald Trump Jr.is low level offspring and has nothing to do with Donald J. Trump.
Lying to congress always has got people in trouble.
There's *lots* of people who have lied to congress and not gotten in trouble. Remember this guy https://www.usatoday.com/story... Sorry but Trumps main crime is that he wasn't the establishments choice. He certainly has his faults but to pretend that Hillary would stand up to scrutiny is to forget the email server issue that would have landed any 'normal' person in jail no questions asked. Note that this is not so much to excuse Trump as to say that *all* guilty parties need to be locked up. I personally love the bipartisan approach of locking up both the Clintons and the Trumps.
I'll just stick to the facts, thanks. Facts like the DNC announced that Russians were responsible for attacking them (unless you're trying to assert that the DNC was never hacked in the first place, in which case good luck explaining away all of that evidence), facts like the numerous Russians who have been indicted or sanctioned by the US, facts like Ms. Butina being charged here after attempting to infiltrate various conservative groups (with mountains of evidence), etc.
Keep your conspiracy theories to yourself, you don't speak for me.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Sure, he could realize that dying in prison might not be great and start singing. They were just suggesting that, up until now, he gets no credit for cooperating.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Not really.
Yes, really. And your next paragraph says exactly what you deny.
You can of course, decline to talk to law enforcement. But once you agree to talk to them, you are required to tell the truth, because lying to them can be considered obstruction of justice.
Which is another way of saying "That is exactly the reason you shouldn't talk to cops, because even if you are completely innocent they can convict you based on a slip-up in the interview."
If I do that, then my lie about you being on the beach with me has obstructed justice - That's a crime. That isn't a "slip-up in the interview"
So to prove that they won't charge you with lying based on a slip-up you use an example of where you deliberately lied to them? Sorry. They will charge you with lying if you slip-up in an interview. That's because they won't ask you just once if you tell them he was with you "on the beach at the time". They'll ask you fifteen times, in thirteen different ways. "On a beach." Which beach? Where on the beach? What did you take to the beach? How did you get to the beach? "at the time." What time did you get there? What time did you leave? What time did you meet with him? What time did you separate? Were you with him the entire time? Yes? Did he ever go out of your sight? No? Oh, wait, he went to the bathroom once, I forgot. So he was out of your sight? You lied!
If you really were "on the beach at the time" with him, UNLESS you were planning on creating an alibi, you'll not remember every detail they ask you about. You'll forget stuff. You'll not bother remembering stuff that was completely unimportant until you need to tell the cops exactly what happened. For example, I just met with a couple of people in another part of the building. I couldn't tell you exactly what time I met with them, or when I left, or even a complete recreation of what we talked about. As I tell the story I will remember things, and if anything I remember differs from what I've already said, I've lied to the cops.
If you think you'd be exempt from that "standard of evidence" you're hopelessly naive.
Frankly, until the same standards of justice are applied equally, nobody gives a fuck about these indictments.
You don't speak for anyone else.
Why should we care if Roger Stone lies?
Because doing it was a crime. Try to keep up. The indictment is only 24 pages.
Oh, that's right, that will never happen, because they are not under investigation
2 years of Republican controlled White House and Congress, and no Democrats under investigation. It must be because Mitch McConnell and Trump and his buds are willing to let the Democrats break the law and get away with it. Yeah, that's the most obvious answer. Because they're such great friends.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Why not tell the truth when talking to FBI. Telling the truth works pretty well in general regardless to whom you talk.
Leave it to Mashiki (an exceptionally dumb strain of right winger) to willfully ignore the dagger sticking out of his eye in order to preserve his emotionally driven narrative. What is this, strike 200? When will you finally let reality slap you across the face?
I don't think most folks understand the goal here.
It isn't about putting Trump in prison. This " investigation " is going to continue and will be front and center when the 2020 election rolls around.
This is all about doing to Team Red what they did to Team Blue.
You can replace " Hillary Email Server " with " Trump Russian Collusion " and that's going to be what Team Blue is going to base their entire
attack ad structure on.
If they wrap this up prior to the elections I will be genuinely surprised.
Also, for the idiots who spam Trump is going to prison on every single GD Slashdot story:
When, in the history of the US, have you EVER seen anyone from the extreme upper echelons of the USG get prison time for anything ?
"There appears to be incredible amounts of no evidence" should have been the real clue.
These are weird times we're living in, man. I forget which law or theory it is that says it's increasingly difficult to differentiate real opinion from sarcasm online, because enough people who actually have those opinions post online. You can see people claiming that there is no evidence in this very thread.
Poe's law, and yeah, I keep violating it. It's where a person can be as over the top sarcastic that it reads like something a fringy believer would write.
I should hang a sign over my computer reminding me not to be so sarcastic. but... its... so....hard sometimes!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
No threats.
He merely mentioned in passing that Cohen's father in law appears to have ties to Organized Crime.
the key is does he think Trump will or not. No telling. I think it's also entirely up to whether Trump's base would get behind a pardon (or at least not notice one).
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If you text threats to witnesses after lying to the FBI already, you've committed multiple offenses, moron. He didn't "text threats to cops" - he lied to cops, and he threatened witnesses. Blaming the FBI for that = you're a retard.
My point RE the "not really" is you're not charged with lying to the FBI if you just "slip up." You're charged if you make a material lie that tries to obstruct justice - Which is what Trump's buddies are doing.
In legal terms - "knowingly and willfully making false or fraudulent statements." Saying your bank-robbing friend went to the beach with you (when he didn't) falls into this category.
He will probably make history as the worst scum to ever be a US president.
According to most of the world, he already IS. It would take a lifetime of reversing every policy he's championed to even balance it out.
Trump knows all the BEST people, he's going to pardon most of them.
You are neglecting some important stuff with Kavanaugh as well.
With Kavanaugh, his "Background check" was limited in scope to the point for the first 3 days of it, they were only allowed to talk to 3 people until it came out at which point they relaxed it somewhat but not really.
At the end of that week, they had over 40 (I think it was over 60 but can't remember) people trying to call them to give them information about how Kavanaugh was lying but the FBI were barred from talking to them, the FBI was also barred from doing any followup questions, talking to all the accusers, talking to Kavanaugh himself, or looking into anything that came up during the hearings such as his repeated acts of perjury.
Quite literally, Bill Cosby and Jared from subway would be considered innocent still if they were given that level of check.
To put this into perspective, we had a JUDGE, interviewing for a spot on the highest court in the land LYING multiple times during the interview on television about minor and major details about his past looking into MAJOR accusation lending even more credibility to those accusations in front of Congress and the Senate. That would have been immediately disqualifying in any credible hearing. As you had a judge committing perjury which is punishable by up to 5 years in prison but he was waved on and the FBI barred from even looking into it.
Clinton was put under a microscope repeatedly and came out, Kavanaugh was held to a lower standard than a drug addict interviewing for a job at a car wash.
And I say this as someone who hates Clinton.
What's interesting though is all the people that haven't been indicted for blatantly lying to Congress or the FBI and been involved with witness tampering (i.e., Bill Clinton, John Brennan, Hillary Clinton, Huma Abedin).
I personally love the bipartisan approach of locking up both the Clintons and the Trumps.
No tears would be shed on my end!
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Stone was working for the CREEP (Committee for the Re-Election of the President), which paid the legal bills of the Watergate burglars. Several of Stone's fellow members went to prison as a result, but he claims he wasn't involved.
How much do you want to bet that a search warrant executed today digs up evidence of Stone's involvement in Watergate?
dom
The CIA openly bragged in the Washington Post, that they meddled with the Russian election to get fat dancing bear Yeltsin elected.
And Yeltsin put Putin in power.
So if Putin put Trump in power ... I'll let you figure out the rest. ;)
Sources:
https://www.zdf.de/assets/faktencheck-vom-7-februar-100~original?cb=1503924628155
All links from the last one on page 12 to the end of page 15.
Most of these really aren't lies, like General Flynn whom the field agents even said "don't charge, this is a non-issue, he got a few dates wrong, doesn't matter". These are ticky-tack little process charges to have SOMETHING to show for the failed effort. Cuomo's just the first one on the left to actually come out and admit the witch hunt has nothing.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Were these actions prior to the Mueller investigation or due to the investigation? If these occurred because of the investigation my observation stands. I don't know anything about Stone and I doubt you know much more than me unless you know him personally. I don't take anything the media, be it CNN or Fox, says at face value anymore. So I'll take anything they claim with a healthy dose of skepticism. I'm not saying they didn't do anything wrong.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
We damned near IMPEACHED President Clinton over it.
My point RE the "not really" is you're not charged with lying to the FBI if you just "slip up."
"Slip up" means "you tell two different stories" or "the story changes" or "the story is factually incorrect" starting with an INTENT to tell the truth but a faulty or incomplete memory. "Lying to the FBI" means "you tell two different stories" or "the story changes" or "the story is factually incorrect" starting with an INTENT to tell a lie.
The only difference between the two is INTENT, which the FBI cannot determine, so they will ASSUME the intent was to lie.
You're charged if you make a material lie that tries to obstruct justice
So exactly how material is it if you lie about doing something that isn't illegal when they ask you what you did? It's not illegal, so they aren't going to charge you with it anyway, and it's not a crime involving anyone else, so what difference does it make? "Did you have a strawberry ice cream cone at 2PM today?" "No." "Did Frank Smith ask you to have a strawberry ice cream cone at 2PM today?" "No." "We can prove you had one!" "Ok, I did have one, I remember now." "Ok, well then, you lied, and we'll charge you with lying even though we can't charge you for eating an ice cream cone."
The only way that the lie is material is because it gives the cops/FBI something to charge you with. It is arguably entrapment at that point, because if they hadn't asked you, you wouldn't have "lied", and the only reason you "lied" is because they asked you.
In legal terms - "knowingly and willfully making false or fraudulent statements."
And "know" and "will" are two things that cannot be proven, they can only be inferred. Hell, even if I told you last week that yes, I did have a strawberry ice cream cone, if you ask me today I might say "no" simply because I forgot I did. There is no "know" and "will" in that lie.
Saying your bank-robbing friend went to the beach with you (when he didn't) falls into this category.
Like I said, trying to prove that the cops won't charge you with lying to them when you slip-up in an interview by giving an example of them charging you with lying when you deliberately lie is pretty stupid. Hey, I can prove they won't charge you with lying to them ever because they will charge you with armed robbery when they catch you with a gun in a bank during an armed robbery, using that kind of logic.
TRIGGERED LOL. Orange Fan Sad? Awww.
Until they find about all of Trump's criminal activity during his Atlantic City casino empire days. I wonder how many bodies got dumped in the Atlantic Ocean thanks to him?
The chickens are coming home to roost, and he surrounded himself with way too many people in an attempt to protect himself. Those people will be his downfall, because there are plenty of snitches in the group. Maybe he can arrange "accidents" for a couple of them, but the darkness will come to light. It's only a matter of time.
Interesting how when it's Liberals who send classified information to WikiLeaks, it's OK and even a brave and noble thing for them to do. Fine for them to use said information against the other side. But when it's Conservatives who use this information to determine how hacked emails were used, it's suddenly a crime.
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
At first, I thought it was just hyperbole, but you really are a tratorious POS. We actually IMPEACHED President Clinton for this shit. But it's ok when it's your man in charge.
GIT FUKT
Reality has become satire.
ORANGE FAN SAD!!!
Yes - did you?
Oh.... Like Clinton? And yes we will keep going there until they are both in jail
Orange Fan SAD! Orange Fan SAD! ORANGE. FAN. SAD.
email server issue
Yeah, you buttery males have lots of issues.
No - you can't legally make up a charge to give yourself an excuse to investigate someone to find wrong doing.
Fruit of the poisonous tree
> Kavanaugh: 4 days including the weekend to make a determination and here is a long list of things you cannot look into.
That's because exactly one person ever "remembered" them, but then couldn't keep track of what YEAR it was, having given multiple mutually exclusive accounts of many events. NONE of the witnesses provided ANY corroboration of the event whatsoever. She has zero proof that she ever met him. In her Senate testimony, she tried to pin down the date by placing Kav's friend at a grocery store that wasn't built until 4 years later. If this works to sink someone, then I remember you being a pedophile at an unknown date, place and time. Sure, I don't know a damn thing about you, where or when this happened, etc., but who cares about details, right?
Meanwhile with Hillary, we have an email between her & Colin Powell detailing how they both ignored the law and the NSA's advice on computer security, but nobody gives a damn about that because it's "just emails" when we learn how they sold us all out. The same people who scream about Trump don't give a crap when the Washington Post is giving an in-kind, off the records donation of party access to top donors, the documentation of false-flag political violence or anything else because it's okay when they do it.
This stuff is in the emails and FBI records, but you guys won't bother to read them and Comey don't play that, so they'll selectively charge people with lying when it suits them.
Cool. If you've got evidence that Clinton committed a federal crime, make sure you forward it to the appropriate people. Otherwise, don't expect me to stop you from beating the dead horse if that's what you want to do. Personally, I think that Clinton has already been destroyed, her legacy is shit and her ego is deflated. Hopefully the last chapter of her story is losing to the single most-disliked candidate in the history of presidential polling. She's not actively damaging the country at this point so I don't really care what happens to her, she can rot for all I care. If you want to spend your time worrying about her and thinking about her, you go right ahead. Good luck with your investigation.
Just keep in mind that for 2 years Republicans controlled the White House and both chambers of Congress and they didn't do shit. Maybe you think that's because they're all her friends. Maybe there's another reason why she is currently un-indicted. All of those Benghazi hearings, and not a single indictment. Maybe they just need one more chance. Anyway, if that's what you want to spend your time thinking about, go ahead. Others are going to spend their time on issues which actually affect the country.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Typical response by those that don't have an argument but want to discredit it. Attack the source if you can't fault the content. How about you show you have a single working brain cell and debunk the claims made instead of attacking their source?
So.. what did we learn about just trying to tell a damn joke? No, Ol Olsoc, it's not that you can't do it. It's that you have to structure and give bigger hints up front. If someone is skimming instead of reading, they still need to see something a little ragged that makes them think, "wait... what?" and re-read it.
Have you ever tried simply using a simple mlipsppelling?
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Oh, we're under no illusion that you intend to stop shoehorning Hillary into every argument, relevant or not.
Burn in hell? How very calm and mature
The president of the United States publicly threatened someone's father in law and it barely made the news.
And the threat was... what was the threat? President Trump simply directed attention to Cohen's father-in-law with a spotty history that includes loaning millions of dollars to a taxi cab medallion holder in Chicago, the same individual was also named in the warrant used to toss Cohen's home, office, and apartment.
Ken
They have him now *right*!
Like the last 200+ times?
Lets say at this point Trump is convicted today. How long would that take? Prob about 2 years. Basically nothing would really happen.
This is nothing more than the current DNC fishing for dirt on Trump and trying to get anyone near him to 'flip'. The only one convicted of anything nefarious at this point is someone who was working for the Clintons at the time of the crime...
You should be asking why was CNN on the scene? Why the SWAT team? This is a show. It is for you. Enjoy it. Make sure you thank the people putting it on by voting for X and vote Trump out.
As I understand it, all Stone did was reach out to Wikileaks to see what else they had from the DNC, just like every journalist covering the story did at the time.
There is not, as I understand it, evidence Stone knew anything more than what Wikileaks made private and he only knew it after WikiLeaks made it public.
He's accused of trying to find out what Wikileaks had - just like everyone else did at the time - is that really a crime?
Ken
Again, have you read the actual indictment? They list the text messages. They show the actual lies. They show him threatening potential witnesses. Hell, they show him threatening the pets of potential witnesses.
This is stuff that will get Roger Stone convicted. Poor guy, what a shame.
It's not evidence that Trump colluded with Russia.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
In 2015 Nigel Farage, leader of UKIP, the party that has always pushed for Brexit and was instrumental in it happening went to St Petersburg with the who's who of Europe's far right as Russia hosted a far right convention for European far right politicians. Off the back of that meeting a number of parties received funding overtly, and likely more covertly.
UKIP and Brexit were largely bank rolled by a guy called Arron Banks, no one can explain where his wealth comes from because his companies haven't made enough money to account for his wealth, and his finances are used to issue donations for Brexit illegaly in improperly declared off shore accounts.
Arron Banks is married to Katia Zatuliveter, a Russian living in the UK, who, in 2011 was embroiled in a scandal where she was sleeping with a British MP who was on Britain's defence committee and in the region that houses one of the UK's main nuclear basis, to which she obtained access through her affair with him. She was still married to Arron Banks before, during, and after this affair, and remains so to this day. One Russian general after she was exposed declared her one of Russia's best intelligence assets.
We know therefore that Russia had a heavy hand in Brexit and UKIP, that Nigel Farage and Arron Banks are two peas in a pod, that Arron Banks has untraceable and unexplained funding sources which he pours into disrupting British politics on Nigel Farage's behalf.
On the morning that Wikileaks released the trove of DNC documents, Nigel Farage was caught sneaking into the Ecuadorian embassy to meet with Assange. Subsequently Farage went to the US to help Trump with his presidential campaign also and was there to meet with him immediately after he won the presidency.
Thus, we even know who one of Putin's key couriers was in this affair too; Nigel Farage. It's no coincidence that these people repeatedly refuse to condemn Putin and that they act as "election monitors" for Putin's rigged elections also.
The whole fucking affair has been blown wide open now, the only people who don't want to admit it are people who can't accept that they've been complicit on Russia's most propaganda attack on Britain and the US since the start of the cold war in that Putin, through his funding and propaganda support to ensure Trump became president and Brexit happened has managed to drive a wedge between the US and Britain and just about every single one of their allies in the world. Britain has been separated from Europe and the US, and Trump has been used to separate the US from pretty much every single one of it's allies; Canada, Europe, Turkey, and so on.
It's important that when the UK and US pick themselves back up that they embark ASAP on a plan such as this:
https://thehill.com/opinion/na...
Given we gave Russia a chance to join the civilised world after the cold war and they instead used it as an opportunity for subterfuge and to simply pick themselves back up and to create a neo-USSR, it's clear they can't be trusted. They had their chance and so the only viable solution to Russia once Trump is out the way and Brexit is reverted is to bankrupt Russia and split it up. We can do a deal with nations like China to allow China to retake territory Russia stole from it in the past, areas like St Petersburg are educated enough to turn into modern wealthy states, and the Caucasus should be allowed to stabilise as an Islamic state which would mean less Caucasus originated muslim extremists being exported to the rest of the world; as Putin's oppression of that region has simply created a terrorist recruitment hotbed for ISIS etc. This would further have the advantage of Assad falling and stabilisation of a more moderate middle East could emerge as a natural arc would then span between Turkey and Saudi Arabia North to South which would in turn create a barrier against Iran's export of terrorism to Lebanon and Israel and the Palestinians creating much greater opportunities for peace.
We must make Russia collapse at the earlier opportunity as it's clear they're capable of doing massive damage to us as they have done here.
I think you'll find it is you who doesn't understand what treason is.Treason has *nothing* to do with other countries, it is "the crime of betraying one's country".
He was arrested for lying to investigators about his communications to members of Trumps campaign. The topic of the communications that he lied about, was wikileaks.
So if you absolutely want to split hairs:
"FBI Arrests Trump Associate Roger Stone Over His Communications With WikiLeaks" is not quite accurate
"FBI Arrests Trump Associate Roger Stone Over His Communications ABOUT WikiLeaks" would fix the semantics.
You've got a dead body, an ass-ton of blood, and a guy telling another guy to shut his fucking mouth or he'll wreck his ass.
In general, those who tamper with witnesses, probably have involvement in the suspected crime, even if it isn't nailed down yet.
To claim otherwise is some pathetic gaslighting bullshit.
You're right. All they caught him doing was dousing blood stained walls with ammonia.
He was clearly just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
>Clinton: 20+ years
Bullshit
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
This current scandal is when a foreign state (Russia) offered to hack the DNC to steal documents and communications in order to assist the Trump campaign. (make no mistake, this is fucking illegal. Treasonous when a foreign state gets involved.)
Why would the Russians "offer" to hack the DNC? Why would they seek approval from anyone, let alone the Trump Campaign?
I've seen no evidence to date that there was actual communication/coordination between Trump Campaign and "Russians/WikiLeaks", instead, I see a lot of after-the-fact requests from the campaign to WikiLeaks to find out what the Russians/WikiLeaks have on the Democrats... You know, kinda like every journalist covering this story at the time did.
Muller already has enough evidence to go to the top
You convinced yourself that Mueller has something he's never said he has, and your proof is that no one on Mueller's staff has leaked that they have evidence of a crime committed by a sitting President while a candidate.
Serious question - if a prosecutor, for example Mueller, has solid evidence the President had committed a serious crime, a crime where a conviction could result in jail time, how long can the prosecutor stand by and do nothing with that information? IANAL but I contend that if Mueller had solid, actual evidence of real crimes committed by the sitting President, he would not sit on it for (up to) two years or more before referring it to a prosecutor.
Ken
no Democrats under investigation.
Which is it, is Hillary not a Democrat, or was she not investigated?
Ken
Charging somebody with lying to authorities is lowliest pettiest government tool when they do not have enough evidence on the crux of the matter: were or not Reps and Trump illegally colluding with Russians?
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Let's try this another way. Say you worked in a bar unknowingly for an organised crime syndicate and every Thursday it was your duty to count and take money from point A to point B (as well as working in the bar full time). The FBI are investigating your boss for money laundering (unbeknownst to you of course) and you're asked by the FBI if you were carrying cash from point A to point B on Thursday and you panic and say no. They ask you how much cash you carried, you still deny carrying any money. They ask the same (but more generalised or broadly) or similar questions another 15 times and you deny all of them.
Did you do anything illegal carrying cash from point A to point B? No, probably not.
Did you do anything illegal lying to the FBI about it?.
The point is are you really suggesting that Stone handing over stolen documents to Wikileaks is the same as "eating a strawberry icecream", and could easily forget he did so? You're an idiot or gullible if you believe that.
He's been released on 250k bail, and the original sureties still stand that he hasn't broken.
Just because he hasn't run, doesn't mean he wouldn't. Idiot. The stakes have increased for Stone, so why wouldn't one expect him to re-evaluate his decision on staying put? I'm not saying he would run, but historical behaviour isn't proof of future behaviour, especially when circumstances have changed for the worse.
No, it is not. Mueller has, very obviously, and very deliberately, not released any information that he has but that he does not need to release yet. And, exactly like during every other release, when everyone is quick to jump on the fact that this is not proof of Trump colluding with Russia, I will, once again remind people that we have not seen the iceberg yet.
Patience, my young padawan. Mueller has prosecuted organized crime before. This is not his first rodeo. You start at the bottom rung of the ladder and work your way up.
No, he has not yet charged Individual 1 with any crime. That does not mean that he does not have evidence of crimes done by Individual 1, and it does not mean that he will never charge Individual 1.
This is stuff that will get Roger Stone convicted. Poor guy, what a shame.
I really hope that's sarcasm.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I don't believe the content of the actual discussions with WikiLeaks has been made public, so there's a good reason you don't understand what it's about. Patience.
He is charged with lying about the contact at all, there is nothing in the documents about what they actually spoke about. Mueller knows though, don't worry.
He's accused of trying to find out what Wikileaks had - just like everyone else did at the time - is that really a crime?
First, that's not what he's accused of, he's accused of obstructing a proceeding, 5 counts of lying to Congress/FBI, and witness tampering. And secondly, yes, those are crimes. That's why they charged him with crimes.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
If you're wondering why this is all they are charging Stone with, it's because Stone is not Mueller's target. Individual 1 is Mueller's target. Stone is the next rung on the ladder that Mueller has been climbing to get to Individual 1. And, again, we haven't seen the iceberg, only what Mueller needs to release to charge the other people on the ladder.
Too many analogies.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Kavanaugh was investigated before every promotion/new position he ever took, including his seat on the DC District Court, once he was nominated the DOJ and Senate dug in again. After they concluded their investigation, a woman came forward from California with some fantastical claims, and then everyone had only a few days (you say 4 days, that sounds right) to investigate the very specific claims against Kavanaugh.
You don't get to be a District Court Judge without your background being fully investigated by the FBI.
As for Hillary, she and her husband repeatedly danced around the edge of seemingly illegal activities - Republicans didn't just "make stuff up" to harass her. She DID use a private email server, she did delete emails that were subpoenaed, she did miraculously invest $1,000 in commodities and made $100,000, in her first and only investment, her subpoenaed Rose Law Firm records disappeared/couldn't be found, then months later, the box of billing records suddenly "appeared" (as if by magic), on a table in the White House Residence, etc.
By comparison, Kavanaugh drank beer in college.
Ken
Hillary was under investigation over the last two years? Did they just have no evidence and dropped the charges against her? What happened with the investigation into Hillary that was conducted over the first two years of Trump's administration? I missed that story, please fill me in. Because when they controlled the WH and Congress, it really seems like they would have followed through on all of those "lock her up" chants if they could. I must have missed the story though, I thought she just faded into oblivion and released a shitty book.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Let's focus all of your attention of Roger Stone, who may have (not proven) spoken mistruths about the nature of his participation in such endeavors, which were not illegal.
Let's not have you focus on the clear and undeniable illegalities that occurred and are proven by the documents released by WikiLeaks.
Patience, my young padawan
I await.
I really hope that's sarcasm.
LOL
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
So.. what did we learn about just trying to tell a damn joke? No, Ol Olsoc, it's not that you can't do it. It's that you have to structure and give bigger hints up front. If someone is skimming instead of reading, they still need to see something a little ragged that makes them think, "wait... what?" and re-read it.
Have you ever tried simply using a simple mlipsppelling?
There's absolutely no evidence that that would work.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
At this rate, he will have a great case just in time for the end of Trump's second term!
You and I both know "Russians" were never involved.
No. We know Guccifer 2.0 was involved, and we know Guccifer 2.0 worked for GRU.
And best of all we know this from the leaks themselves. They include the attack used to access the emails and it had a Russian source. Unless you're saying Seth Rich had access to state level resources to fake the origin of the attack?
you're asked by the FBI if you were carrying cash from point A to point B on Thursday and you panic and say no.
In other words you deliberately lie. How is this "another way" from using a different deliberate lie trying to prove you won't be charged for lying when you slip up in an interview?
Let's try this another way. You CANNOT use the fact that the cops WILL charge you for lying to the cops when you do so deliberately as proof of any kind that they will NOT charge you when the "factually incorrect" statement you make isn't a deliberate lie. The fact is the cops cannot tell a-priori the difference between an intent to lie and a "slip up" that results in incorrect information, so they will assume the worst and let the legal system sort it out.
The point is are you really suggesting that Stone handing over stolen documents to Wikileaks is the same as "eating a strawberry icecream"
I am suggesting no such thing. I am replying to a claim that the cops won't charge you with lying to the cops if you slip up in an interview. That incorrect claim was made in response to a generic statement about not talking to the cops. I said nothing about Stone.
<Nelson voice> HA HA </Nelson voice>
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
"Closet faggot", "real men" clearly you have issues of your own. It's ok this is a safe space you can let it all out.
So, process crimes as a result of an investigation, not crimes discovered by an investigation.
Also known as Soviet Era police state political persecution shit...
Does anyone here do a little research before making ignorant claims? Kavanaugh has been under investigation for every government position his has held. In all of his previous work, the whole "rape" claim never came up until he was nominated for the SC. He has turned over more documentation then "ALL" previous SC candidates combined.
There's nothing in the indictment about Trump and/or his campaign "colluding" with Russia to rig the election. What you have here are allegations that Stone lied about perfectly legal activity, and an allegation that he has a disagreement with an associate over an underlying legal act, coupled with Stone pointing out to that associate that his lawyer failed to give him good advice.
Here's the key thing: Stone and the Trump campaign were trying to find out what Wikileaks had and when they would release it. The record already includes information that Stone thought Wiki had something different from Podesta's emails. The Trump people were focused on Hillary's emails on her illegal (because she was using it for government business AND storing classified info on it) server and her destruction of evidence and violation of subpoenas. What Wiki had was emails somebody phished FROM PODESTA (not from Hillary's server) ---- and the Trumpers were (like lots of other people) trying to find out what Wiki had, which they would not have needed to find out if they were indeed in cahoots with Moscow.
Mueller clearly wants to nail Trump, but after two years and using a team of lawyers who were Hillary and Obama people, he has not been able to indict ANYBODY for any such "collusion". Normally, a prosecutor gets a small fish ON THE CRIME, then offers him relief in exchange for testimony that a bigger fish ordered him to do THAT CRIME or to be involved as a co-conspirator IN THAT CRIME. Mueller has NOTHING on the alleged "collusion" and is simply turning screws on anybody associated with Trump to create process crimes and then prosecute those.
Amazingly, the same DOJ people never prosecuted Hillary nor any of her associates for actual on-the-record crimes, nor for any process crimes. In fact, some of Hillary's associates were given immunity (normally given to little fish to get them to give testimony to a grand jury in order to indict a big fish) WITHOUT ANY GRAND JURY in use --- in other words, they got immunity in exchange for nothing and there was no intent to go after anybody for anything in the case of the Obama DOJ investigation of Hillary and her associates.
Think that through, and consider if you want the next Democrat president treated like Trump is now, by people Trump will leave behind within the DOJ and FBI when HE leaves office. Turnabout generally sucks, as many Obama fans are learning re: ruling by executive order.
completely corrupt DOJ and FBI which never prosecuted any process crimes related to Hillary (which would have required them to prosecute Obama who lied about not knowing about her private email server WHILE USING IT USING AN ALIAS). The Democrats and the establishment Republicans in Washington who all despise Trump have repeatedly told him they will impeach him if he "interferes" in the Obama team investigation of him, therefore Trump has been unable to do what all presidents before him have done: take control of the DOJ. We are still living under the Obama DOJ, with the "Trump appointees" being selected from a pool of Obama holdovers.
We're on very dangerous ground here:
[a] Our system was not designed to have "special prosecutors" who are under the executive branch and yet not under control of the chief executive - Meuller is the most powerful and most unaccountable man on the planet right now, and he clearly likes it. Any future person named to such a post could be worse than Stalin.
[b] If the public gets the idea that the establishment folks in DC can nullify any election and destroy any non-beltway non-insider who gets elected, the public may lose all faith in the federal government. There lies the path to something nobody should want to see: armed rebellion in a nation where over 300 million guns are in private hands and many of those gun owners are not only gun owners but also ex-military and capable of making ammunition and more guns.
Obama may have truly carried out his biggest campaign promise to "fundamentally transform" the United States of America.
In Soviet America, law breaks you!
Obama's CIA director, John Brennan, lied under oath to congress and he is regularly on CNN trashing Trump. .... and nothing happened to her. .... nothing. They got immunity for free.
Obama's DNI, James Clapper, lied under oath to congress and he's regularly on TV trashing Trump.
Obama's FBI Director, James Comey, lied under oath to congress and he's regularly on twitter trashing Trump.
Obama's Deputy FBI Director, Andrew McCabe, lied to the FBI and the Inspector General recommended he be prosecuted, but while he has indeed been fired-for-cause, nothing else has happened to him (certainly no early morning raid by 20 armed men in tactical gear, and no indictment yet).
Hillary Clinton Lied to both the congress and the FBI, she also deleted subpeonad documents and destroyed the machines those docs were stored on (i.e. her lies wer about substantive felonies she had comitted)
Hillary's pals Huma Abedin and Cheryl Mills both lied to the FBI, and they were given immunity in exchange for
Oh yeah, and Democrat congressman Schiff is on tape conspiring with an actual Russian (who he did not know was a Russian shock jock that was punking him) conspiring to take out a duly-elected President of the United States ..... ACTUAL RUSSIAN COLLUSION and he is now a congressional comittee chairman!
Oh, did you mean Stone should go to jail for lying about perfectly legal activities because he is a Republican? or because he is a Trump supporter?
Ah, now it makes sense..... [facepalm]
I think the Bushes are despicable, but "Operation Fast and Furious" was not a Bush admin activity. The Obama team admitted this under oath before congress, but have spent years trying to confuse the public by constantly and deceitfully bringing up an earlier Bush admin program (called "Operation Wide Reciever") that was NEARLY as stupid but not as illegal and deadly.
Under the Bush program, the guns were tagged and tracked and the Mexican government was "in the loop" rather than being victimized by it.
Under the Obama program, the guns were not tagged and not tracked and the Mexican government was not aware of the program which imported at least hundreds but probably thousands of "assault rifles" directly to the Mexican drug gangs who ultimately used one to murder an American Border Patrol officer but who also appear to have used some in a school massacre in Mexico, among other murders.
Barack Obama's Attorney General at the time, Eric Holder, referred to himself as Obama's "wingman" obstructed the congressional investigation into the scandal and hid subpeona'd documents to the point that he bacame the first Attorny General of the United States to ever be held in contempt of congress (a criminal offense normally leading to jail time, but Holder was not about to prosecute himself of course so he got away with the crime). Incidentally, this is where Trump got the idea that his Attorney general should be his "wingman".
Meanwhile in Russia, Vladimir Putin is laughing with delight. Goaded on by Putin's fifty cent army of shills, the worst elements of the American mandarinate are plotting a judicial coup against a sitting President.
Having lost the Mandate of Heaven through disastrous economic mismanagement, promulgation of wicked social policies, and delegitimization of the courts - the mandarins have turned increasingly to authoritarian methods to retain their undeserved privilege. They were taken aback, then utterly enraged, when widespread election fraud failed to secure victory for cartoonishly villainous candidate Hillary Clinton.
The common people rightly despise the mandarinate as the authors of their dispossession. With no hope of winning over the masses, the mandarins began plotting a coup. They would use their control of the justice system - that infernal machine for grinding up human lives - to unseat a popular and virtuous President.
So began the struggle of the oligarchy against the people. Russia, China, and nefarious international financiers rushed in to fan the flames. The financiers of course side with the mandarins. They know in their heart that President Trump is a man of the people who loves his country, so they fear and loathe him. Putin and Xi, on the other hand, just want to stir up trouble.
What could be better than seeing their biggest rival destabilized by factional strife? And if that strife leads to a successful judicial coup or even to civil conflict - then Putin will break out his finest vodka to celebrate, while Emperor Xi dances for joy.
Trump isn't the target. The target is the safety and security of the U.S.
For all we know Trump may never be charged as Meuller finds nothing that he can be charged with or (I am unsure whether this works in American law) it is not in the public interest to charge him. Either way, Meuller needs to conclude his job within the confines of the law and then give a result.
I reserve the write to mangle english.
and most of Trump's "lies" are carnival barker exagerations like "I hire all the best people" or "I have the greatest brain!"
Now: just how many hundred times did Obama lie to all the American people about something critical to their very lives?
"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, PERIOD!"
"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan, PERIOD!"
And how many times did Obama lie about national security issues, sometimes while committing serious felonies?
He claimed no money went to Iran related to his nuke deal..... before it was discovered thast he had sent BILLIONS of dollars there in unmarked currency on pallets aboard unmarked planes (at a time when sending cash to Iran was a felony - it still is, which is why Bill Clinton had to pardon his old buddy Mark Rich so the guy could return to America and not land in prison).
He claimed he made a deal to release some terrorists from Gitmo to a South American country where they would stay; none stayed in that country and that country says Obama made no provision for them to stay there.
He claimed to know nothing about Hillary's private email server, but it turns out he was regularly communicating with her on it and he was using an alias to do it according to the FBI. THIS is why Hillary was not prosecuted for her felony act of moving classified info through her private server; it would have required the prosecution of president Obama for the same felony.
"pathetic gaslighting"
Pot, meet kettle.
Z^-1
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Yes, and Guido and Luigi were not threatening, they were just talking about how fire-prone your business is, shame if something were to happen to it.
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
A crime is a crime though. If you kill cops coming to talk to you because they are investigating something you are just as guilty as if you'd killed them under any other circumstance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
When you can't find real crime, interview all of the parties, then decide one of them is lying. Deciding who to charge with lying to Congress is a political game, not a criminal act. Mueller's plan is straight out of the book, Licensed to Lie. Including some of the same villians from the book. Never trust a federal prosecutor!
God, the lies that refuse to die...
No, Fast and Furious was not a W Bush administration program. It was created entirely by the Obama administration.
There was a program called Wide Receiver under the W Bush administration, which attempted to sell disabled guns with embedded tracking devices to suspected criminals, who were then followed by US law enforcement and Mexican law enforcement.
As it turns out, Wide Receiver was a complete failure - Even with tracking devices, and people in planes and helicopters following the cartel members, they still couldn't track down the cartel armories. So the program was shut down after just a short run, and no program like was run again.
Until Obama. Holder's DoJ decided to create Fast and Furious, a gun-running program with the stated aim of tracking down the cartel's weapon's supplies, just like Wide Receiver... however, there were some differences:
Fast and Furious sold working guns, not disabled ones.
Fast and Furious sold unmarked guns, without any tracking devices.
Fast and Furious did not inform local law enforcement.
Fast and Furious did not inform Mexican law enforcement.
Fast and Furious did not have US Federal law enforcement make any attempt to follow the purchasers.
In other words, Fast and Furious, despite the stated aim, did NOTHING to achieve that aim. The program consisted entirely of forcing gun stores to deliberately violate state and Federal laws against selling guns to criminals. There was nothing else to it. No way to arrest those criminals, no way to track them, no way to charge of punish them... nothing.
The evidence of the text and emails he made are right there in the indictment. The evidence will be easy for any jury or judge to understand. He's toast. It's kind of pathetic to rationalise this away and yet...
Nope, that's not what the docket says. The docket states that his previous testimony didn't match a previous statement based on a text message. Said message was over 2 years old, and they went back fishing because he used the wrong wording.
It's rather sad that you don't realize that this is the same stunt the Muller has pulled in the past, and has had dozens of cases overturned because of it. Those were all 'process crimes' aka testimony not matching the exact phrasing.
Om, nomnomnom...
I read the document. Stone isn't in a real good place, no matter what the kooks think.
Why not go compare the exec trials from enron? Give you a hint though, it's similar. And they were thrown out as well.
Om, nomnomnom...
Right. No assault claims had been filed. Therefore they did not happen.
If you are a big fan of doing a "little research" why don't you look up the reasons and the statistics of how assault victims delay, often indefinitely, the reporting of their respective incidents?
But don't worry. Your beer-drinking paladin of virtue will have his shady financial dealings and his possible perjury looked into anyway thanks to the last election, and all that has nothing to do with his appealing seduction technique. Personally I doubt he will get unseated but it would be nice to have the record documented. You know, since filing things is all important.
I read the document. Stone isn't in a real good place, no matter what the kooks think.
Why not go compare the exec trials from enron? Give you a hint though, it's similar. And they were thrown out as well.
So Stone is an innocent patriots because of Enron. I am beginning to understand you y'all think.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Z^-2
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
There was a program called Wide Receiver under the W Bush administration, which attempted to sell disabled guns with embedded tracking devices to suspected criminals, who were then followed by US law enforcement and Mexican law enforcement.
Both Fast and Furious and Wide Receiver were part of Project Gunrunner. The new name for Fast and Furious was because there were new targets that were different than Wide Receiver. It was the same program with a new target.
As for disabled guns, tracking devices and Mexican cooperation, remember the bit about the DEA agent not following the rules? You just described what he did. And why he suddenly became a whistle-blower after he massively fucked up.
But imagine the shitshow if Holder had prosecuted him. So Holder, stupidly, let him go.
Read the other charges... You're embarrassing yourself somewhat.
Stone pulling a Nixon with his "V For Victory" on the courthouse steps tells you everything you need to know.
Nixon was corrupt. Stone is corrupt. Trump is corrupt.
Birds of a feather.
So Stone is an innocent patriots because of Enron. I am beginning to understand you y'all think.
Nope. There's no claim of innocence, only a long history of a prosecutor abusing power and using parallel construction to create a crime. Perhaps you should be asking how he managed to keep his law license.
Om, nomnomnom...
Read the other charges... You're embarrassing yourself somewhat.
Might want to try that on your own. Maybe you can match up CNN and their inability to read a date properly. If you're looking for embarrassment, try the mirror. Otherwise you wouldn't have made that post when the known evidence shows parallel construction has been going on. That's called the "invention of a crime."
Om, nomnomnom...
So Stone is an innocent patriots because of Enron. I am beginning to understand you y'all think.
Nope. There's no claim of innocence, only a long history of a prosecutor abusing power and using parallel construction to create a crime. Perhaps you should be asking how he managed to keep his law license.
My suspicion is by money passing hands enabled Stone to keep his license, or engaging with others who are Russian sympathisers or affected by kompromat. That is all.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.