Thanks for trolling me, as always I'll feed you a bit, can't have you starving can we?
At no point do I talk about safety, thats the OSS mantra, if you doubt its secure you can always read the source. If YOU think thats what I'm addressing you are just reinforcing my point.
Ah, well if you're the kind of developer who works in complete isolation on your own projects with no interaction with anyone else, I can understand your point of view. But that kind of development is pretty rare these days. Most of us work on teams, and evaluating other people's code is an almost-daily part of the job. The majority of that, at least in my case, involves code reviews (formal or informal) for other people in the company, but our code reviews are by no means limited to in-house code. We take more care with our own code because we know that we're the only eyes on it, but that doesn't mean we're foolish enough to assume that all third-party code is perfect and flawless.
At no point do I make such a claim. What I DID say was that we have enough work to do with our own code, around here developers are hard to come by so we strangely enough value our own projects over external peoples project. If something doesn't work we need someone we can call.
But you are obviously OSS fanatic to the point of being ready to blow up the evil corporations - might wanna seek help on that.
Earth seems to be working on cutting down population at the moment.
Frequent earth quakes, a lot of flooding and rising seawater. We are going to see quite a lot of environmental refugees in the coming years, with huge amount of refugees theres going to be a buildup in diseases, over harvesting on resources etc. this will again lead to more refugees and at some point borders will close, this is when wars start to happen.
Sure hope it will be something left over to over kids, but at the current rate its going to happen quite a lot sooner.
I recently created a lexer and parser for our database so we could generate maps of how the database objects interacts - we got 300+ procedures calling 70+ tables, having comments tells you what each of them do, but how stuff interacts is a life saver.
Consider: someddl.sql --Table for user login create table login( login char(64) not null primary key, password char(32) not null -- applications serve us md5 sum );
someproc.sql --Procedure to check login CREATE PROCEDURE doLogin (username varchar, password varchar) RETURNS (valid int) READ SQL DATA BEGIN exec sql prepare somecur select 1 from login where login = ? and password = ?; exec sql execute somecur using(username, password) into(valid); exec sql fetch somecur; exec sql close somecur; exec sql drop somecur; END;
Comments give a quick oversight of whats going on, however, as a programmer you have to know that doLogin is using login table - it might seem obvious, but when you got hundreds of procedures/functions interacting with tables having oversight is suddenly very hard.
Lets say for instance you have to modify login table, to do so you have to verify that no procedure will be affected by the change - if any is, you have to update them appropriately. This is where my lexer+parser comes into play - I can generate complete call graphs over our system, and using that I can quickly determine what tables and procedures has to be taken into account when doing any modifications. (Also as an added bonus, since I know how everything is interacting I can automate certain tasks - for instance if I need to reinsert anything (lets say someone accidentically dropped 10.000 rows) I can use my program to work out in which order to restore data from running backups without having to rollback the entire database).
Same goes for tables - ER diagram sucks when you hear about them first, but at that point you probably have never had a big database to administrate. When it grows suddenly having a diagram to quickly lookup how everything is screwed together can save you hours hunting for code.
Documentation inside code helps you figuring out what the code is supposed to do, but before you try to figure out what a certain snippet of code does you need to figure out what to look for.
*Disclaimer above sql code is by no means used in live environment, was just whacked together as an example
I keep hearing people pro open source code say "I can check it!" Well can you? Have you done so - in a project spanning more than a few thousand lines of code? Just because the code is there to see doesn't actually mean its doable to waddle through it.
I'm not for either open source or proprietary code, my employer pays me money to produce code, what he does with it is his business, but what I do have, is experience using both proprietary code and open source code - both models have pros and cons.
With proprietary code there are someone I can call and they are by contract obliged to fix problems within a certain time frame. One particular instance is a database we are paying license fees for, I will not name them but to this date I have found more than 10 vectors that causes crashes. Those problems have been addressed by the vendor in a timely manner (I have yet to find bugs that would be show stoppers, but some did require annoying workarounds). With OSS we don't have this possibility, yes, we can log a bug in whatever bug tracker they use and hope someone will address our issue, but we have no guarantee - also in my experience logging a bug with OSS developers can be quite a daunting process, people can have some serious egocentric issues, while this of course is also applicable for proprietary software, there are someone higher in the food chain who can be called. With OSS we of course got the good fortune of being able to go through the source code and try to fix the code ourselves... right? Have you ever even considered just how bloody huge the code base is for something like a database? Tracking down a bug, well yes, the gdb can tell you where the program stopped working, but unless you have some really really good code reading skills and are up to date on everything that happens algorithm wise you have close to zero chance of fixing anything without causing major problems.
Also as a developer I got enough to do creating my own applications, I simply do not have the time to dig through thousands of lines of code every time something new breaks. Yes open source is nice, small projects are easy to help get along, fixing small bugs, but at some point the project grows so big that anyone using it needs to have someone they can call at 4 am in the morning to help them.
Oh and just because some software is proprietary it doesn't mean you don't have access to the source code, even at Microsoft you can buy access to the source.
We got builds with debug flags from the database vendor because we cannot share our database with them, therefore stack traces etc. has to be generated locally and shipped to them. (yes this is a bit annoying, but having sensitive records out in the wild is a tad more problematic).
I don't pick OSS over proprietary or visa versa, I pick what ever tool fits my needs.
Had a rabbit once, its amazing what that creature can chew through and survive. Wasn't uncommon to suddenly have a blue flash followed by darkness if we forgot to keep an eye on the critter. Many a 220v. cables had an untimely death due to that critter.
If I where to make such a program I would do it through bit torrent program and have peering clients test each other. They are looking for injected packets, just keep track of the results on the tracker and you should be able to figure out whats going on where.
When the Linux sponsored car crashed it got quite a lot time on web based media, if they had managed to kill the driver in the process they would have gained additional airtime - but this time on TV broad casted around the world for all major channels.
Yes this is a sick thing, but thats how the world works.
Meh! I just keep a 0 and 1 + the current size of my data, this way my backup is less than 40 bits, if I ever need to restore the backup I just create all combinations and pick the right one.
But also remember being a vegan for adult is less of a problem than forcing a child to be so. While adults still will be subject to deficiencies the consequences will be far greater for a child. I've been raised with quite a lot of knowledge about diet and what the body needs - but this is by no means common knowledge, it is a very real possibility that the parents in those cases did what they thought was the best for their child.
But I don't get why enabling cut n paste would lower the learning curve.
How does copy+paste help preventing me from hitting a,A,i,I,C when I want to edit? Or h,j,k,l for moving about? The problem with almost any other editor is they have a tendency to insert values when hitting those keys.
Since I have no idea where my normal tools are in E-Macs and I have to unlearn 10 years of experience and then try to figure out how to do it the E-macs way adding a factor 10 to the time isn't that far fetched.
On top of that the emacs death combo buttons would probably give me carpel tunnel, so adding sick leave every once in a while would not help (I'm not kidding, my hands are not made to do the button combinations, tried E-macs got real sore hands and gave up)
Also using any other editing tool so far has in my experience required me to use a mouse and/or arrow buttons, having to move my left hand a lot also leads to CT, so if some PHB decided that was the way to go I'd rather find something else to do than risk destroying my hands.
(Besides this is a silly discussion, no one would dare trying to force a IDE/Editor around here)
So a company refusing to listen to its developers is better?
If someone told me I had to use Emacs instead of VI I'd tell them that in doing so they would lose about 90% productivity, if told to go ahead anyways I would probably start looking for something else since management no longer respects my opinion.
Re:Uncle Sam is too fat. You need to trim it.
on
The SUV Is Dethroned
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· Score: 1
Well people being that dumb are also the type who starts a campfire with gasoline - they will usually be removed from the gene pool in quite spectacular manners and end up being fun reading for the rest of us.
You forgot to add keeping the "minorities" i check (no I'm not kidding).
There are way too many siblings asking on my view, so I'll just sum up some of the stuff here, mods don't kill for attaching it here:)
I don't know if 12 months is the correct amount, I don't know if 3 years of community service is the right - what I do know is giving someone 25 years imprisonment wont solve anything, other than the points parent made. Punishment should fit the crime and circumstances, not have some arbitrary minimum sentence. Also a society should punish the perpetrator and when released time served has been done, having lists making it impossible to live within a city (sexual offenders) just isn't right. If society deems the punishment to lenient then lock them up for how long it takes, castrate the truly horrible offenders if you think they will do it again if let out, creating a list for flash mobs just isn't the right way.
What I do know is being assaulted sucked, being run over by a hit-n-run sucked, but at NO point did I think either of the perpetrators should be locked up for years or have their lives completely destroyed - I do however think that the guy assaulting me should be offered counseling and perhaps strongly recommended to undergo treating for drugs.
In Denmark life imprisonment means 15-18 years, however in special circumstances a perpetrator can be put into special custody where the perpetrator will never have the possibility of getting out, but that is reserved for extreme cases. In most cases the society is capable of forgiving (but not forgetting) the crime.
But they weren't cold hearted, they where ignorant.
Problem is in the US being ignorant is not a defense and thus the deed carries a minimum sentence of umpteen years. Over here ignorance still isn't an excuse it will however allow the judges to levy a punishment better fitting the crime.
Also remember society based on revenge will just spiral out of control - who executes the executioner?
(This is getting off topic and is just my view on prison sentences in general) While I can follow the logic - if people fear prison, harsher sentences will make them fear it even more - I think making prison sentences too harsh will force people to become desperate, desperate animals will fight to their death and thus you end up with more violent arrests where the one being chased will have no regard for others life since their own life is now on the stake.
Here in Denmark we used to have next to no high speed chases, when police came you would generally just give up, get the slap on your wrist, serve the time and get back out for a second try. Lately sentences has gone up, crime has become more violent (but less frequent) and you hear about high speed chases about once a week.
Yes it sucks that people only serve 6 months in jail for rape (in Denmark), but at what point have they suffered enough? Will someone ever be punished enough for the victim to feel restitution? (I think it has been proven that having the victim and perpetrator meet along with counseling works better, than locking him up for umpteen years)
(Disclaimer been victim of assault and I think the 2 month probation and an apology was sufficient - also been victim of a hit-n-run where I think the driver got correct sentence (lost his license for a year and have to do a full drivers test to re-qualify) and paid for destruction of property)
About the couples, just read from a Danish source here: http://politiken.dk/udland/article520653.ece (last paragraph) and they don't list their sources, but based on my (single minded) view of both countries it fits snugly.
Oh also the article claims that he has nothing to gain from a retrial even if found innocent, wtf? If found innocent wouldn't that mean zero time in jail?
No where in the article does it say that he has agreed to it, they are speculating that there might be a reduced sentence if Hans discloses where the body is. Also, he is most likely going to be someone's "slave" once he is in prison, so if he gets 15 or 25 years it is most likely going to be in protected custody (= voluntary solitary confinement) and 15 years alone is going to mess him even up let alone 25 years, either way he is done for.
Glad I'm not in the US, getting life in prison for something that has way too many loose ends, just isn't right.
(On a side note, whats with those extremely long terms in prison? Anyone going in for 25 years will never be able to get back into society - I thought the point of prison was to punish and correct the guilty and get them back into working order. There was a couple who got life in prison for mistreating their child to the point of death (raised her as a vegan) - a British couple got 3 years community service for the same thing)
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I was about to add the more general, locking yourself out of your own system. Done that a couple of times.
At no point do I talk about safety, thats the OSS mantra, if you doubt its secure you can always read the source. If YOU think thats what I'm addressing you are just reinforcing my point.
At no point do I make such a claim. What I DID say was that we have enough work to do with our own code, around here developers are hard to come by so we strangely enough value our own projects over external peoples project. If something doesn't work we need someone we can call.
But you are obviously OSS fanatic to the point of being ready to blow up the evil corporations - might wanna seek help on that.
Earth seems to be working on cutting down population at the moment.
Frequent earth quakes, a lot of flooding and rising seawater. We are going to see quite a lot of environmental refugees in the coming years, with huge amount of refugees theres going to be a buildup in diseases, over harvesting on resources etc. this will again lead to more refugees and at some point borders will close, this is when wars start to happen.
Sure hope it will be something left over to over kids, but at the current rate its going to happen quite a lot sooner.
No unfortunately its created on company time so it only does what I need it to do right now. :-)
Call graphs!
I recently created a lexer and parser for our database so we could generate maps of how the database objects interacts - we got 300+ procedures calling 70+ tables, having comments tells you what each of them do, but how stuff interacts is a life saver.
Consider:
someddl.sql
--Table for user login
create table login(
login char(64) not null primary key,
password char(32) not null -- applications serve us md5 sum
);
someproc.sql
--Procedure to check login
CREATE PROCEDURE doLogin (username varchar, password varchar)
RETURNS (valid int)
READ SQL DATA
BEGIN
exec sql prepare somecur select 1 from login where login = ? and password = ?;
exec sql execute somecur using(username, password) into(valid);
exec sql fetch somecur;
exec sql close somecur;
exec sql drop somecur;
END;
Comments give a quick oversight of whats going on, however, as a programmer you have to know that doLogin is using login table - it might seem obvious, but when you got hundreds of procedures/functions interacting with tables having oversight is suddenly very hard.
Lets say for instance you have to modify login table, to do so you have to verify that no procedure will be affected by the change - if any is, you have to update them appropriately. This is where my lexer+parser comes into play - I can generate complete call graphs over our system, and using that I can quickly determine what tables and procedures has to be taken into account when doing any modifications. (Also as an added bonus, since I know how everything is interacting I can automate certain tasks - for instance if I need to reinsert anything (lets say someone accidentically dropped 10.000 rows) I can use my program to work out in which order to restore data from running backups without having to rollback the entire database).
Same goes for tables - ER diagram sucks when you hear about them first, but at that point you probably have never had a big database to administrate. When it grows suddenly having a diagram to quickly lookup how everything is screwed together can save you hours hunting for code.
Documentation inside code helps you figuring out what the code is supposed to do, but before you try to figure out what a certain snippet of code does you need to figure out what to look for.
*Disclaimer above sql code is by no means used in live environment, was just whacked together as an example
I keep hearing people pro open source code say "I can check it!" Well can you? Have you done so - in a project spanning more than a few thousand lines of code? Just because the code is there to see doesn't actually mean its doable to waddle through it.
I'm not for either open source or proprietary code, my employer pays me money to produce code, what he does with it is his business, but what I do have, is experience using both proprietary code and open source code - both models have pros and cons.
With proprietary code there are someone I can call and they are by contract obliged to fix problems within a certain time frame. One particular instance is a database we are paying license fees for, I will not name them but to this date I have found more than 10 vectors that causes crashes. Those problems have been addressed by the vendor in a timely manner (I have yet to find bugs that would be show stoppers, but some did require annoying workarounds). With OSS we don't have this possibility, yes, we can log a bug in whatever bug tracker they use and hope someone will address our issue, but we have no guarantee - also in my experience logging a bug with OSS developers can be quite a daunting process, people can have some serious egocentric issues, while this of course is also applicable for proprietary software, there are someone higher in the food chain who can be called.
With OSS we of course got the good fortune of being able to go through the source code and try to fix the code ourselves... right?
Have you ever even considered just how bloody huge the code base is for something like a database? Tracking down a bug, well yes, the gdb can tell you where the program stopped working, but unless you have some really really good code reading skills and are up to date on everything that happens algorithm wise you have close to zero chance of fixing anything without causing major problems.
Also as a developer I got enough to do creating my own applications, I simply do not have the time to dig through thousands of lines of code every time something new breaks. Yes open source is nice, small projects are easy to help get along, fixing small bugs, but at some point the project grows so big that anyone using it needs to have someone they can call at 4 am in the morning to help them.
Oh and just because some software is proprietary it doesn't mean you don't have access to the source code, even at Microsoft you can buy access to the source.
We got builds with debug flags from the database vendor because we cannot share our database with them, therefore stack traces etc. has to be generated locally and shipped to them. (yes this is a bit annoying, but having sensitive records out in the wild is a tad more problematic).
I don't pick OSS over proprietary or visa versa, I pick what ever tool fits my needs.
Well bottled water does actually have a need. In quite a lot of the world the water in taps is undrinkable.
Had a rabbit once, its amazing what that creature can chew through and survive. Wasn't uncommon to suddenly have a blue flash followed by darkness if we forgot to keep an eye on the critter. Many a 220v. cables had an untimely death due to that critter.
If I where to make such a program I would do it through bit torrent program and have peering clients test each other. They are looking for injected packets, just keep track of the results on the tracker and you should be able to figure out whats going on where.
No, having someone die means even more airtime.
When the Linux sponsored car crashed it got quite a lot time on web based media, if they had managed to kill the driver in the process they would have gained additional airtime - but this time on TV broad casted around the world for all major channels.
Yes this is a sick thing, but thats how the world works.
Meh!
I just keep a 0 and 1 + the current size of my data, this way my backup is less than 40 bits, if I ever need to restore the backup I just create all combinations and pick the right one.
Fool proof plan I tell ya!
Spot on.
But also remember being a vegan for adult is less of a problem than forcing a child to be so. While adults still will be subject to deficiencies the consequences will be far greater for a child. I've been raised with quite a lot of knowledge about diet and what the body needs - but this is by no means common knowledge, it is a very real possibility that the parents in those cases did what they thought was the best for their child.
Well I need caps lock for AOL customers :-)
But I don't get why enabling cut n paste would lower the learning curve.
How does copy+paste help preventing me from hitting a,A,i,I,C when I want to edit? Or h,j,k,l for moving about? The problem with almost any other editor is they have a tendency to insert values when hitting those keys.
Denmark has laws against how long you can tie a person into a contract.
And the minimum total spend on the contract has to be clearly listed in the commercials.
Why?
Since I have no idea where my normal tools are in E-Macs and I have to unlearn 10 years of experience and then try to figure out how to do it the E-macs way adding a factor 10 to the time isn't that far fetched.
On top of that the emacs death combo buttons would probably give me carpel tunnel, so adding sick leave every once in a while would not help (I'm not kidding, my hands are not made to do the button combinations, tried E-macs got real sore hands and gave up)
Also using any other editing tool so far has in my experience required me to use a mouse and/or arrow buttons, having to move my left hand a lot also leads to CT, so if some PHB decided that was the way to go I'd rather find something else to do than risk destroying my hands.
(Besides this is a silly discussion, no one would dare trying to force a IDE/Editor around here)
So a company refusing to listen to its developers is better?
If someone told me I had to use Emacs instead of VI I'd tell them that in doing so they would lose about 90% productivity, if told to go ahead anyways I would probably start looking for something else since management no longer respects my opinion.
Well people being that dumb are also the type who starts a campfire with gasoline - they will usually be removed from the gene pool in quite spectacular manners and end up being fun reading for the rest of us.
think OH MY GOD! a squirrel! whee whee wheeeeee
You forgot to add keeping the "minorities" i check (no I'm not kidding).
:)
There are way too many siblings asking on my view, so I'll just sum up some of the stuff here, mods don't kill for attaching it here
I don't know if 12 months is the correct amount, I don't know if 3 years of community service is the right - what I do know is giving someone 25 years imprisonment wont solve anything, other than the points parent made. Punishment should fit the crime and circumstances, not have some arbitrary minimum sentence. Also a society should punish the perpetrator and when released time served has been done, having lists making it impossible to live within a city (sexual offenders) just isn't right. If society deems the punishment to lenient then lock them up for how long it takes, castrate the truly horrible offenders if you think they will do it again if let out, creating a list for flash mobs just isn't the right way.
What I do know is being assaulted sucked, being run over by a hit-n-run sucked, but at NO point did I think either of the perpetrators should be locked up for years or have their lives completely destroyed - I do however think that the guy assaulting me should be offered counseling and perhaps strongly recommended to undergo treating for drugs.
In Denmark life imprisonment means 15-18 years, however in special circumstances a perpetrator can be put into special custody where the perpetrator will never have the possibility of getting out, but that is reserved for extreme cases. In most cases the society is capable of forgiving (but not forgetting) the crime.
But they weren't cold hearted, they where ignorant.
Problem is in the US being ignorant is not a defense and thus the deed carries a minimum sentence of umpteen years. Over here ignorance still isn't an excuse it will however allow the judges to levy a punishment better fitting the crime.
Also remember society based on revenge will just spiral out of control - who executes the executioner?
(This is getting off topic and is just my view on prison sentences in general)
While I can follow the logic - if people fear prison, harsher sentences will make them fear it even more - I think making prison sentences too harsh will force people to become desperate, desperate animals will fight to their death and thus you end up with more violent arrests where the one being chased will have no regard for others life since their own life is now on the stake.
Here in Denmark we used to have next to no high speed chases, when police came you would generally just give up, get the slap on your wrist, serve the time and get back out for a second try. Lately sentences has gone up, crime has become more violent (but less frequent) and you hear about high speed chases about once a week.
Yes it sucks that people only serve 6 months in jail for rape (in Denmark), but at what point have they suffered enough? Will someone ever be punished enough for the victim to feel restitution? (I think it has been proven that having the victim and perpetrator meet along with counseling works better, than locking him up for umpteen years)
(Disclaimer been victim of assault and I think the 2 month probation and an apology was sufficient - also been victim of a hit-n-run where I think the driver got correct sentence (lost his license for a year and have to do a full drivers test to re-qualify) and paid for destruction of property)
About the couples, just read from a Danish source here: http://politiken.dk/udland/article520653.ece (last paragraph) and they don't list their sources, but based on my (single minded) view of both countries it fits snugly.
Oh also the article claims that he has nothing to gain from a retrial even if found innocent, wtf? If found innocent wouldn't that mean zero time in jail?
did the article just speculate?
No where in the article does it say that he has agreed to it, they are speculating that there might be a reduced sentence if Hans discloses where the body is. Also, he is most likely going to be someone's "slave" once he is in prison, so if he gets 15 or 25 years it is most likely going to be in protected custody (= voluntary solitary confinement) and 15 years alone is going to mess him even up let alone 25 years, either way he is done for.
Glad I'm not in the US, getting life in prison for something that has way too many loose ends, just isn't right.
(On a side note, whats with those extremely long terms in prison? Anyone going in for 25 years will never be able to get back into society - I thought the point of prison was to punish and correct the guilty and get them back into working order. There was a couple who got life in prison for mistreating their child to the point of death (raised her as a vegan) - a British couple got 3 years community service for the same thing)