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Real Racing In the Virtual World
zebadee writes "The BBC has a story about a company aiming to pit gamers against the professionals. iOpener Media has a patented system that sucks in real-time GPS data from racing events and pumps it out to compatible games consoles and PCs. This means you can race in real-time against the like of Lewis Hamilton, Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen. The company also claims to have an AI that solves the problem of overtaking and crashes." It would be great to see this applied to historical events and other game domains, too -- like trying to beat Amundsen to the South Pole, using best-known weather data.
I'm pretty sure the Rocket Racing league is planning something similar.
According to the Wikipedia, they are planning a game which will allow people to compete virtually along with actual racers.
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Against Mario Andretti, Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, The Unser brothers, Dale Earnhardt, Cale Yarborough, Donnie Allison, Phil Hiil, Graham Hill, Tazio Nuvolari and all the other great names from racing's past. The current crop of drivers in motor racing are just so homogenized and boring.
I've got your sig, right here.
Feed the GPS data from cars stuck on the 405 in LA into the on-car computers during the Indy 500.
Especially given that the real drivers have to worry about crashing and losing a car whereas the gamer can just restart. On the other hand, perhaps it can help the driver himself since he can't be on the track 24/7.
This would make The Oregon Trail new again!!
Or how about, Poll Chasing With the Best: On the Trail With Barak and Hillary.
Or Across the Ocean With Thor Heyerdahl: The Rowing Game.
Maybe from historical data we can recreate the spreading pattern of the black plague. Across Europe: A Flea's Tale.
The potential is limitless.
Qxe4
Not to begrudge a person of their fantasy, but following a bunch of dogs in the Antarctic at 10 miles a day sounds like it might be a niche market for this device. Real question... Is this a unique enough idea to be patented?
You could actually go to the cantina and see that Han Solo actually did shoot first.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
The possibilities are interesting, but the most exciting idea you can think of is a game where you spend 3+ months riding behind sled dogs across the Antarctic tundra? Sounds like Penn & Teller's Desert Bus.
I mean, don't get me wrong, Roald Amundsen was an interesting guy with a great story, but that doesn't mean it would make a good videogame.
Would this Race-To-The-Pole game also include simulated frostbite?
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Sadly... you fail.
You can't really call it a race when the gamer sees and reacts to the real drivers, but the real drivers don't see or react to the gamers, can you?
Awww, c'mon, how is this off topic? It is about interaction in a live racing event, and I won first post.
The virtual world racers have no such risks.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
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As a fairly new but hardcore motor racing simulation fanatic (F1 challenge, rFactor, GTR2, GPL) this article is just a load of hogwash. First, simply pumping the GPS data from real racecars into an online track is useless. Why?
Because you cannot replicate exactly
1) the track itself, the bumps, kerbs, asphalt, track layout
2) track conditions at the time the gps data for the "real" racers cars, ambient temp, track temp, rubber laid down by previous sessions, debris etc.
3) car setup (good luck getting real time telemtry of all the parameters of the car from the real F1 teams), this would reveal too much information to competitors
These 3 factors combine to change grip and ultimately laptimes.
As anyone who has raced competitively online will tell you - lap times in the virtual world is incomparable to real world runs with the same cars, same track. As a small example, some of the best line sim race drivers in the world are doing = 1.17 laptimes on the '02 version of silverstone in F1C. While the fastest lap in the real world was a 1:18.9.
Almost 2s difference. Which is huge. This is one example of many. The only way this situation can be rectified is by making a hyper realisitc simulation that has never been seen before or, start fudging grip, engine power and other statistics. Which by the way the article says it won't do because "it defeats the point". Yeah right.
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=rkdWkAs9qmo
He points out that no matter how realistic a game is, it is just not a real-life experience:
"The one thing I've learned today... is that you can have the skill to get this car around here in 1:40, and it could do 1:40... [but] it's that part of your brain that makes you frightened."
Of course, games are essentially there to entertain, and I'm sure that a lot of people will enjoy racing against the professionals from the comfort of their own couch. But just because you can play Guitar Hero and have a blast of a time doing so, it doesn't necessarily mean you can play the guitar.
Aly =]
The real-world racers will not be reacting to the presence of the gamers. Hitting Speed Racist's car in a video game won't cause him to spin out in real life, though that would be a great WTF moment if it did. At best this will be like singing along with a pre-recorded tape, it'll look good but it won't be the same as actually performing with a real band who can improvise and react to your own performance.
Actually, this is making me think of the old Captain Power toys where you could wave the fighter at the screen while the show was on and your ship would "explode" (pop apart due to springs) if it got "hit" by an enemy robot. The funny thing is, those Captain Power toys would be entirely kick-ass today with our gaming systems and 3D controllers. The fighters were held by pistol grips with the part. For a modern version, make the pistol grip a detachable mount containing the electronics for a wireless controller for a system like Wii or the 360. The fighter part can be a stand-alone toy that can also be mounted atop the controller when playing the video game. From there, the fighter's attitude would control the action on the screen. The toy would respond to what's going on with appropriate vibration, lights, and sound effects. When sufficiently damaged, the whole thing can sproing apart just like Captain Planet's fighters did. And to really merchandise the situation, the game itself would have full storylines to go with each fighter and presumably the character that goes along with it. So you beat the game once with the blue fighter, that's nice, but the red fighter has a full story arc to play through as well. The game is included in the box with the fighter, essentially the same game each time but with different cinematics to go with the new character.
Something like this would be very successful.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Can I race against Hiro Protagonist?
Must be a Windows-based solution.
I knew it started at 3AM Melbourne time. If you are into that sort of thing, you know it. Because its not as if its hard to find out. Formula1.com even converts it to your local time for you!
The ghost person also doesn't know you are next to them, so they won't try tactics that slow other racers down in real life. Of course the AI could do it, but then its not real, and it would also affect where the ghost racer is . . . then the GPS would be off. Wee.
"like trying to beat Amundsen to the South Pole, using best-known weather data." I've always wanted to play a game where after twelve hours of doing the exact same thing in a region that looks exactly the same no matter where you are, you still haven't gotten very far! The left arrow key will make you step with your left foot, and the right arrow key will make you step with your right. Careful not to hit one twice in a row - you will trip! Don't trip too much, or you might lose! Also, don't forget to rest and eat. Repeat this a few dozen times!
You are now manually breathing.
You watch a few stupid movies (Talladega Nights was comedy, BTW) and now all racers are stupid. If only you had a clue...
On the other hand, fearing death and intelligence are pretty much completely unrelated IMO.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
He's a bigot on wheels, he's a bigot
and he's gonna be hatin' on someone.
He's a racist so don't let him meet your friends,
If you do they might not talk to you again,
And when people are the wrong color
Or come from the wrong place,
You bet your life Speed Racist
will get all red-faced,
Go Speed Racist
Go Speed Racist
Go Speed Racist, Go!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
What if you're dealing with a Road Rash type game where you can get out of your car and run around on the track? Would the AI simulate the driver running around on the track swinging a chain at the other drivers as they speed by him or what? I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
I have nothing compelling to say
P.S. Lewis Hamilton, please stop crashing.
As has been mentioned, in game you can do much faster times than real life drivers, and getting live telemetry from the cars during races might be tricky.
;)
So why not use delayed telemetry? And maybe use endurance racing instead of formula racing? Most endurance races have different classes of vehicles, so you're constantly "fighting" traffic (especially if you're in the fastest classes), gamewise you could have to earn your way up from GT2 to GT1 to LMP2 to LMP1 (to use Le Mans standards).
Le Mans alone would qualify as at least 24 hours of gaming
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
www.chessgames.com has been hosting matches against the opening moves of real historical chess matches.
You can play against chess champions of centuries past or the modern day. (you have to pay to play against historical players, you can replay historical chess matches for free).
I think this is an awesome idea for games.
Of course, the constraint is a limited number of games where this is applicable (for example, it wouldn't make any sense to play against the replayed opening moves of a Halo 3 match...)
-J_Tom_Moon_79
Being a racer myself, my uncle having held three world records, was one of the founders of ASRA, etc (as well as sitting here with a double compound fracture in my rt leg, broken hip and broken shoulder, all rt side), I can tell you this. It isn't fear, it's respect. My cousin was killed by his dad's car. In the garage, of all places. A malfunction on an electric switch activated the trans-brake and when they switched from alcohol to nitromethane, the car leaped forward and the wing of the dragster hit him in the head. He (my cousin)"acted" fearless, but at the same time, he rarely, if ever, had the throttle wide open on his quads, trucks or anything else he had. Before I learned the restraint that came with respect, I wrecked one of his quads, breaking my nose (simple wreck). Incidentally, my current accident was a mechanical failure.. Lucky to be alive, life-flight said. I won't be touching a bike again for a few years, I can tell you that much. Also, hope the paragraphs work this time. Last two posts where horrible with no line breaks. --Toll_Free
The name is not Raikkonen.
There's no risk, so why would I want to go around an oval hundreds of times with people who can't see me (and probably won't even 'hit' me because of that). Unlike the people I'd be going against, I have no reason to worry about snapping my neck or being in a burning aluminum cage if I screw up, so I'm going as fast as I can, perhaps saying 'oops' if I hit a wall. Besides that, real tracks are boring as hell.
I just read Slashdot for the articles.
In a real race car you have much more sensory input to tell you what the cars doing and many more queues to respond to. Most racing games compenstate for this by artificially tweaking the physics engine to cope with the inputs, something akin to stability control in a real car in fact. In a real car you cannot mash the accelerator or brake and wrench the wheel while cornering at the limit the same way you can in even the most realistic console and PC driving sims. If you do this in a real car - DO try this at home kids to prove a point - you will spin like a top and end up going backwards into the scenery at a high speed.
.1 of a second lap times or even do better. Simply because of this effect. If the physic sim was real enough then the real life drives would have a huge advantage.
... but the real-life pros would seriously pwn game fanboi n00bs
Add to that, brakes seem to be infintely fade resistant, tyres indestructable, and surfaces uncharceristly smooth. A typical road car has no brakes or grip after 1-2 laps of a real race track at full whack.
Even the most stable cars are senstive to subtle inputs and weight shifts at the tiller when on the limit.
In the most realistic of driving sim engines you'll find cars uncontrollable with a keyboard, mouse or joystick. Even with a linear wheel and analog pedals you still have no sense of g-forces and will end up off the track in no time.
If this comes to pass, I won't really be suprised if gamers get within
Still... this would be seriously fun though,can't wait to see it done
Next to the Preview and Submit options, there's the option for "Plain Old Text" or "HTML Formatted". Change it back to Plain old text and it'll be correctly formatted as you've done it within the textarea.
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I'm reminded of those folks who "try to commit suicide..." I mean, what the hell? If they tried, and failed, how the hell CAN they go on with their lives?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
+1 Helping a Guy on Narcotic. (Sorry but had to say it. Been there myself.)
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
More like Red light means stop, mmmkay???
I saw the Sign, and it opened up my eyes
Well, that sounds like it would work perfectly with a wiimote.
Plus, they've already done something like that to Conker. A cutesy, kids' games squirrel turned into a serial-cussing, heavy-drinking, shit-dodging maniac. (And I mean, really, dodging dollops of feces.) Apparently just to make a point that Nintendo isn't a kiddies-only company any more, and now publishes that kind of stuff too. And as a bonus, why wait for deviant fanfic to rape your childhood memories and favourite characters, when you can get it done professionally by its creators?
So I'm kinda still waiting for when they get such ideas like, say, Mario or Link finally fucks the princess. I mean, seriously, after how often those guys save the princess, you'd think she'd put out by now. Hold the wiimote at your crotch and thrust. It's got sensors for that kind of thing, doesn't it? Maybe they'll even figure out how to use the balance board in it too
Or for the all-important casual-gaming female demographic, something like Zelda's Vibrator Training. You know, while Link is busy with his crossbow
Or how about playing the kidnapper and having some BDSM sessions with the princess? If the wiimote can be used as a tennis racket, why not as, say, a whip or paddle handle?
And for the really deviant market segment, Mario Goatse. I'll let you figure that out on your own
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
The Bigger The Headache The Bigger the Pill
but if you make it lego Amundsen then it would be a hit ....
On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, 1996
Although I agree that live would probably be more exciting... but does even 1% of racing gamers actually KNOW precicely the days and times of each race start around the world?
Like last weekend was the Montreal F1 Grand Prix, and I believe that the official race was on Sunday, but I have no clue at what time it started, and the city is barely a 1h30 drive from mine, for hell's sake...
Yeah, it's so difficult to use google to find the F1 calendar on the F1 website, select the race you're interested in and then click on the 'convert to my local times' button to see a detailed schedule adjusted for your local time zone. I think you'd have to be a rocket scientist *and* a brain surgeon to figure that out.
That may take some time.
America, Home of the Brave.
"The company also claims to have an AI that solves the problem of overtaking and crashes" - that must be some amazing piece of AI if it can let Kimi Raikonen's car spin off the track when I virtually crash into him. Or, less dramatically, can prevent him from crashing into the virtual me when I'm overtaking/being overtaken by him. This whole idea is bogus.
Though with one slight change to the rules - first one to finish loses. :-)
"This fantastic result was a complete team effort. We really spanked the competition today."
I remember a company here in Dundee ran a website that had virtual horse racing. You could buy a virtual horse, train it, buy virtual food, race against other horses and get monery back for winning. They even had a full time employee whose role was purely to commentate on the races.
It was so successful that a totally separate company set up in the US just to buy virtual horses and race them and they made a profit.
That was at least 4 years ago.
In danger of being a little off topic, but kind of thought it was interesting.
America, Home of the Brave.
...can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkdWkAs9qmo
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk?
Did he get a Darwin Award?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
From TFA:
"In the next three to five years, we believe that games will not be 'triple A' games unless they have our feature in," he said.
The man clearly does not understand games at all.
Fuck you Anonymous Coward!
Thanks. Appreciate the help.
--Toll_Free
I predict a huge market for Mario Masturbating...
A ghost is usually just a projection of the other racer as he's driving with no way to interact with it, you can just see where the other guy gains speed on you or loses it. Of course that's pointless if you ghost drivers out of a multi-car race where the ghosts interact with cars that aren't there for you while you interact with cars that aren't there for him...
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Who the heck is Lewis Hamilton, Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen. They ain't no racers I never heard of. What about Jr., Kasey Kane, Mark Martin, you know....real race car drivers!
Don't forget Mario Mario: The Recursive Door.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
What happens when one of the real world drivers crashes? will the gamers bear witness to the virtual accident?
The clear goal should be to project virtual racers laps onto real tracks and see how the pros cope with trying to drive the real cars and keep up with the ghosts - that would be sport that I'd pay to watch ;-)
Use/> if line breaks are what you want, but mostly you probably want <p>paragraph</p> tags. Remember to close them.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
Now all the grievers that love crashing into people in racing games can do the same to people in real life.
I'd wager that's the most accurate projection you'll see on this matter.
We may not imagine how our lives could be more frustrating and complex—but Congress can. – Cullen Hightower
iracing is doing something similar to this http://iracing.com/contact/faq.php?lc=4 [iracing.com]