Exactly, I think that's the thing. People do not lust after dead technology when it has been obsoleted or surpassed by newer technology (for the most part). People lust after it when new technology doesn't manage to do the same things as well as the old technology did. That's where I am with Newton OS. I used a Newton MessagePad 2100 and absolutely loved it...... I eventually broke down and made the switch to Palm OS, and have also tried PocketPC devices. My Palm OS device (a Treo 650) works for me, and I'm also impressed at some of the things PocketPCs can do (or Windows Mobile, sorry), but the user experience with them is just not the same as with the Newton. As much as the Newton got knocked for it's large size, there was something to be said for having more room to write with, etc. It seems like in some ways, Microsoft and their Tablet PC stuff is probably about the closest you can get these days to a similar experience (from the brief periods of time I've spent trying them out in stores).
Sorry, I am not trying to mix up the two (although I still find the differences between the two dubious at best, and the recent court ruling laid out a lot of compelling arguments as well that back up the contention that ID and Creationism are more closely related than some would like to admit). But I have heard people arguing for Intelligent Design specifically use the "bee flight" example......... surely you aren't saying that Intelligent Design proponents never use this example (again more as justification for the idea of something that science can't explain, so it must have had a designer)?
First, since when does anti-ID equal anti-religion? I can think of plenty of people who are perfectly supportive of religion who still think ID is bunk. I wouldn't want to lump all religion in with ID specifically.
Aside from that though, from reading some of these posts you'd expect that the majority of posts to this thread would be a bunch of anti-religious ranting, etc. Yet after reading through hundreds of comments, I was struck by how many were actually from pro-ID people complaining about this article being flamebait, etc. and arguing for ID, religion, etc.
It seems like people are exaggerating the anti-religious or anti-ID bias here, since frankly it seems like the scientific viewpoint in these posts seem to be in the minority. Or does it just make people feel good to claim to be persecuted, etc.?
"The fact of the matter is that the majority of Scientists tend to find religion later down the road."
OK, I'll bite. If that's a "fact", what's your evidence for this exactly? Surveys? Polls? What specifically is the basis for this statement, that you would describe it as a fact?
The reason they brought it up is because many Intelligent Design proponents use bee flight specifically as an example. No-one is saying it's logical to bring it up, but that is why it was mentioned. If you want to blame someone, blame Intelligent Design proponents who use this example, not the OP.
I hope you realize that you are probably taking that Hawking quote out of context. The whole thing can be found at http://www.holysmoke.org/cre014.htm where it becomes clear that he was discussing a variety of origin stories/ideas.
I think I agree with you, although I'm not sure. When DVD first came out, I have to admit that I sort of convinced myself I wasn't impressed..... I think my basic thinking was "who needs that kind of quality, VHS tapes are fine?". Oddly enough, I think it was being in a local electronics store and seeing a copy of Eraser playing on DVD that probably convinced me that there was indeed something to the whole DVD thing.
So, having said that, my initial reaction to the whole HD-DVD and Blu-Ray thing is sort of similar to my initial reaction to DVD......... personally, I am more than happy with the quality of the DVD's I have, and I can't really see myself going out and replacing anything I have on DVD with new format stuff. Certainly if I had an HD-DVD or BluRay player, I would probably buy new movies on the new formats, but that's about it.
But then I have to look back at my initial dismissal of DVD as well; when I see these things in person will the difference be so mindblowing that I'd actually buy movies I already owned on DVD in the new formats? I don't know if I want to dismiss them outright just yet.
I'm still a bit confused about exactly what you all are defining as "racism". Someone mentioned the "dictionary definition" above, but it seems like in that case it still doesn't fit. You're trying to make a distinction between racism and prejudice, but the second dictionary definition of racism is "discrimination or prejudice based on race". The first of course is even more broad and doesn't depend on any overt action: "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.". Really, neither of these definitions depend on actions. The belief that blacks were mentally inferior (or even subhuman) was a racist belief, for example, and many people believed it who didn't specifically ACT on that belief......... but the belief itself was still inherently racist. This distinction people are making people racism and prejduce doesn't make sense, since racism is essentially prejudice based on race.
That's a good point............ they are probably an even more interesting example when you do look at the GBA and DS games especially and realize that they have managed to still make some nice innovations and improvements even though many of them seem very much like Symphony of the Night... the Castlevania games generally seem to have stuck much closer to the core formula, yet they still manage to put out fun games to play, which is a pretty incredible accomplishment, I think. To a lesser degree I might point to the GBA Metroid games (and of course Metroid Prime is an example of taking the core elements of a franchise and giving it a whole new perspective, while still staying true to the original games).
Thank you for pointing this out. Nothing is more frustrating to me than the repeated idea that sequels in games cannot be innovative. The Mario and Zelda franchises are both great examples of this. I think people forget why these franchises are so successful. If Nintendo just kept pushing out the same game over and over again, people would have lost interest long ago. But the reason people get so excited isn't just because they like the characters or basic stories, but because they know that most of the time, a new Mario or Zelda game is going to offer something really new and interesting as well. Not always, but a lot of the time.
Right, I wasn't saying whose job it was..... I was just pointing out that there is a reason to not expect the XBOX 360 to operate identically to the original XBOX, as the original poster was saying. It's sort of analagous to expecting a car with a much more powerful engine to operate identically to an older model with a weaker engine.
I'm not saying that the designers of the XBOX 360 shouldn't have anticipated this or done something differently, nor am I saying that the end user should understand everything about the internals of the device. But I am saying that everyone should realize that there are fundamental differences in the hardware and capabilities, and it doesn't make sense to expect identical operation (i.e. to expect that a problem that didn't exist with the original XBOX shouldn't occur with the XBOX 360 as well, even though there is a fundamental difference in the speed of the optical drives in the two devices).
The problem with believing that is that the XBOX 360 DVD drive spins the disc at a much higher speed (I think I read 12x for 360 games compared to 4x for XBOX games and I guess 1x or 2x for DVD's). And I imagine the other internals, etc. of the 360 are different from the original XBOX. But I assume it's the rotation speed that is the big factor here.
Why exactly is reading a book inherently superior to watching a story told on television (or seeing a play, or a movie, or something else)? As far as I see it, a good story is a good story, and good writing is good writing regardless of the medium. I love reading books, but I also love watching good TV shows, reading good comics, watching a good play, watching a good movie, etc. I think it is ridiculous to say that books are inherently superior.
That's really not fair to say that the entire company is based on taking the best ideas out of other UIs and then modifying them. Certainly they have done that, but Apple also contributed a lot of wholly original ideas and innovations that hadn't been seen before (I'm not going to recount them all here, it is discussed in other histories of GUI development, especially at Xerox PARC and Apple).
No. Studying religions is not the same as promoting them. It's like saying that we shouldn't teach any subject because it would be the same as endorsing it (i.e. a course in the Nazis would be seen as endorsing Nazism).
Now this just seems silly. Personally at least, I can tell you that I use lyrics sites for ONE primary purpose; to be able to find a song that I heard somewhere based on its lyrics, so I can then buy it. Seriously; that's all they are really useful to me for (of course, they can also be useful just to know the words of a song, but that's something else). What POSSIBLE benefit can they see in shutting something down that has a primary use of helping people to identify and purchase their product? Really, it just seems like madness.
Come on, this doesn't prove anything at all. Until we can find fossils for every single stage between this and modern birds, you clearly can't prove anything, and there are still holes. Modern birds could have still popped up independently, intelligently designed and perfect.
I hope you don't get modded down as a troll. I think this is an important distinction; there is a big difference between people who get jazzed up just by the idea of creating something cool and great and fun, and people who get jazzed up more by the thought of driving someone else out of the market.
I can't help but find it funny how you seem to be so focused on graphics....... how great the graphics are, etc. And then how Nintendo "sucks" because their "graphics are so kiddy" (I assume you're not including games like Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime and Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess here).
Seriously, is this what the current generation of gaming is like? All we can talk about is graphics? Have you considered that some people still care about gameplay more than anything else, with the graphics being important, but not the most important thing? Great graphics can help of course...... Resident Evil 4 looks stunning; but it holds up so well because the underlying gameplay is excellent too.
I hate to comment on something without even having watched it, but this sounds like the gaming equivalent of a professional baseball player going around beating little leaguers. I'm sure it's funny, but how "l33t" can someone be if all they do is pwn n00bs?
Ahh, duh. I just posted something saying I couldn't believe The Right Stuff wasn't on this list, or that more people weren't mentioning it. It seems like such a natural; hell, it's the main thing that forms most of what I think about when I think of the space program, astronauts, etc. and gives me so much respect for it....... more so than Apollo 13.
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Exactly, I think that's the thing. People do not lust after dead technology when it has been obsoleted or surpassed by newer technology (for the most part). People lust after it when new technology doesn't manage to do the same things as well as the old technology did. That's where I am with Newton OS. I used a Newton MessagePad 2100 and absolutely loved it...... I eventually broke down and made the switch to Palm OS, and have also tried PocketPC devices. My Palm OS device (a Treo 650) works for me, and I'm also impressed at some of the things PocketPCs can do (or Windows Mobile, sorry), but the user experience with them is just not the same as with the Newton. As much as the Newton got knocked for it's large size, there was something to be said for having more room to write with, etc. It seems like in some ways, Microsoft and their Tablet PC stuff is probably about the closest you can get these days to a similar experience (from the brief periods of time I've spent trying them out in stores).
Sorry, I am not trying to mix up the two (although I still find the differences between the two dubious at best, and the recent court ruling laid out a lot of compelling arguments as well that back up the contention that ID and Creationism are more closely related than some would like to admit). But I have heard people arguing for Intelligent Design specifically use the "bee flight" example......... surely you aren't saying that Intelligent Design proponents never use this example (again more as justification for the idea of something that science can't explain, so it must have had a designer)?
Aside from that though, from reading some of these posts you'd expect that the majority of posts to this thread would be a bunch of anti-religious ranting, etc. Yet after reading through hundreds of comments, I was struck by how many were actually from pro-ID people complaining about this article being flamebait, etc. and arguing for ID, religion, etc.
It seems like people are exaggerating the anti-religious or anti-ID bias here, since frankly it seems like the scientific viewpoint in these posts seem to be in the minority. Or does it just make people feel good to claim to be persecuted, etc.?
There is a reason that ID was dragged into this, and it wasn't the scientists who made the initial connection.
OK, I'll bite. If that's a "fact", what's your evidence for this exactly? Surveys? Polls? What specifically is the basis for this statement, that you would describe it as a fact?
The reason they brought it up is because many Intelligent Design proponents use bee flight specifically as an example. No-one is saying it's logical to bring it up, but that is why it was mentioned. If you want to blame someone, blame Intelligent Design proponents who use this example, not the OP.
I hope you realize that you are probably taking that Hawking quote out of context. The whole thing can be found at http://www.holysmoke.org/cre014.htm where it becomes clear that he was discussing a variety of origin stories/ideas.
So, having said that, my initial reaction to the whole HD-DVD and Blu-Ray thing is sort of similar to my initial reaction to DVD......... personally, I am more than happy with the quality of the DVD's I have, and I can't really see myself going out and replacing anything I have on DVD with new format stuff. Certainly if I had an HD-DVD or BluRay player, I would probably buy new movies on the new formats, but that's about it.
But then I have to look back at my initial dismissal of DVD as well; when I see these things in person will the difference be so mindblowing that I'd actually buy movies I already owned on DVD in the new formats? I don't know if I want to dismiss them outright just yet.
I'm still a bit confused about exactly what you all are defining as "racism". Someone mentioned the "dictionary definition" above, but it seems like in that case it still doesn't fit. You're trying to make a distinction between racism and prejudice, but the second dictionary definition of racism is "discrimination or prejudice based on race". The first of course is even more broad and doesn't depend on any overt action: "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.". Really, neither of these definitions depend on actions. The belief that blacks were mentally inferior (or even subhuman) was a racist belief, for example, and many people believed it who didn't specifically ACT on that belief......... but the belief itself was still inherently racist. This distinction people are making people racism and prejduce doesn't make sense, since racism is essentially prejudice based on race.
All you have to do is look through history and see that there are plenty of examples of racism that do not depend on any overt actions.
That's a good point............ they are probably an even more interesting example when you do look at the GBA and DS games especially and realize that they have managed to still make some nice innovations and improvements even though many of them seem very much like Symphony of the Night... the Castlevania games generally seem to have stuck much closer to the core formula, yet they still manage to put out fun games to play, which is a pretty incredible accomplishment, I think. To a lesser degree I might point to the GBA Metroid games (and of course Metroid Prime is an example of taking the core elements of a franchise and giving it a whole new perspective, while still staying true to the original games).
Thank you for pointing this out. Nothing is more frustrating to me than the repeated idea that sequels in games cannot be innovative. The Mario and Zelda franchises are both great examples of this. I think people forget why these franchises are so successful. If Nintendo just kept pushing out the same game over and over again, people would have lost interest long ago. But the reason people get so excited isn't just because they like the characters or basic stories, but because they know that most of the time, a new Mario or Zelda game is going to offer something really new and interesting as well. Not always, but a lot of the time.
I'm not saying that the designers of the XBOX 360 shouldn't have anticipated this or done something differently, nor am I saying that the end user should understand everything about the internals of the device. But I am saying that everyone should realize that there are fundamental differences in the hardware and capabilities, and it doesn't make sense to expect identical operation (i.e. to expect that a problem that didn't exist with the original XBOX shouldn't occur with the XBOX 360 as well, even though there is a fundamental difference in the speed of the optical drives in the two devices).
I hate it when my disc condom comes off inside my girlfriend's PS2.
The problem with believing that is that the XBOX 360 DVD drive spins the disc at a much higher speed (I think I read 12x for 360 games compared to 4x for XBOX games and I guess 1x or 2x for DVD's). And I imagine the other internals, etc. of the 360 are different from the original XBOX. But I assume it's the rotation speed that is the big factor here.
Why exactly is reading a book inherently superior to watching a story told on television (or seeing a play, or a movie, or something else)? As far as I see it, a good story is a good story, and good writing is good writing regardless of the medium. I love reading books, but I also love watching good TV shows, reading good comics, watching a good play, watching a good movie, etc. I think it is ridiculous to say that books are inherently superior.
That's really not fair to say that the entire company is based on taking the best ideas out of other UIs and then modifying them. Certainly they have done that, but Apple also contributed a lot of wholly original ideas and innovations that hadn't been seen before (I'm not going to recount them all here, it is discussed in other histories of GUI development, especially at Xerox PARC and Apple).
No. Studying religions is not the same as promoting them. It's like saying that we shouldn't teach any subject because it would be the same as endorsing it (i.e. a course in the Nazis would be seen as endorsing Nazism).
Now this just seems silly. Personally at least, I can tell you that I use lyrics sites for ONE primary purpose; to be able to find a song that I heard somewhere based on its lyrics, so I can then buy it. Seriously; that's all they are really useful to me for (of course, they can also be useful just to know the words of a song, but that's something else). What POSSIBLE benefit can they see in shutting something down that has a primary use of helping people to identify and purchase their product? Really, it just seems like madness.
Well, we all know that the FSM was created using the "divine recipe" by the "divine chef", so I think we're still back to square one here.
Come on, this doesn't prove anything at all. Until we can find fossils for every single stage between this and modern birds, you clearly can't prove anything, and there are still holes. Modern birds could have still popped up independently, intelligently designed and perfect.
I hope you don't get modded down as a troll. I think this is an important distinction; there is a big difference between people who get jazzed up just by the idea of creating something cool and great and fun, and people who get jazzed up more by the thought of driving someone else out of the market.
Seriously, is this what the current generation of gaming is like? All we can talk about is graphics? Have you considered that some people still care about gameplay more than anything else, with the graphics being important, but not the most important thing? Great graphics can help of course...... Resident Evil 4 looks stunning; but it holds up so well because the underlying gameplay is excellent too.
I hate to comment on something without even having watched it, but this sounds like the gaming equivalent of a professional baseball player going around beating little leaguers. I'm sure it's funny, but how "l33t" can someone be if all they do is pwn n00bs?
Ahh, duh. I just posted something saying I couldn't believe The Right Stuff wasn't on this list, or that more people weren't mentioning it. It seems like such a natural; hell, it's the main thing that forms most of what I think about when I think of the space program, astronauts, etc. and gives me so much respect for it....... more so than Apollo 13.