They actually did reverse trades in something like 6 of the 146 affected symbols. These were stocks that were clearly trading completely out of their realistic ranges, so a small portion of trades were reversed. Though I'm sure Knight was begging them to reverse all the trades...
Wish I had mod points, but instead I'll just add a comment to agree with you.
This whole thing has nothing to do with HFT, except that a bunch of uninformed idiots who have no idea what they are talking about have decided to spout off about HFT. Because it sounds exciting, not because it had anything to do with what happened.
Very true. Be nice, be as honest as you can without stepping on any toes, and don't burn any bridges if you can avoid it. The world is much smaller place than many people realize, and even if you don't end up back at the same company there is a good chance you might end up with some of the same co-workers one day.
Taking your points in order: 1. Adding random delays to all trades will make life harder for (some) HFT traders, but will also add uncertainty to all trades. More uncertainty is rarely a good thing in the markets. 2. Ron Paul for higher taxes! (Hey, it's your sig, not mine). So you seem to support Ron Paul with your signature, but at the same time want more government interference because you think the HFT guys are making too much money. And you even want to use taxes to kill their business. The amount of cognitive dissonance is astounding. 3. HFT guys will love this. They usually stop trading when there is a chance of their trades being reversed. So making it impossible will just make it easier for them.
3. enact a rule that all trades stand.. erroneous trades made by a computer algorithm will never get rolled back
THIS. It is total bullshit that if your computer fucks up massively you get a rollback. Keep your winnings if you win, get your money back if you lose. What a deal for the big firms.
I think the HFT people would be the first to support this rule.
Remember the "flash crash"? From what I understand the reason the market went into freefall was that a lot of the HFT folk pulled out of the market when they though there was a risk their trades would be reversed. So they turned of their computers and the liquidity they added to the market disappeared. Result... market goes into freefall.
OK, so this is anecdotal, and we all know the plural of anecdote is not data...
I buy lots of books, and I can barely remember the last time I bought a book from a source other than Amazon. Even the used books I buy I get through Amazon's marketplace. About 2 months ago I finally broke down and bought a Kindle. I bought it to use on my commute, with the idea that I'd finally get around to reading all the classics (which are free), but would rather buy paper books for anything else.
Two months later I have been completely converted to the Kindle. I now don't even bother looking at books that I can't buy on the Kindle. It kind of sucks, as a lot of publishers charge a premium on Kindle books (how the hell do they justify that???), and other books simply are not available. But the convenience of reading on a Kindle trumps the disadvantages for me.
So for me at least, buying paper books is now a last resort.
So here is something I always ask when people complain about H1B workers. You are going to compete against people from India/China/etc. no matter what you do. But would you rather have them in the US, where they have to compete against you while having the same cost of living as you, or while living in their home country where the cost of living is a fraction of that in the US?
Even better, a lot H1Bs go back home after a few years. However, during their time in the US they paid into the social security fund, a benefit they will never be able to claim. Unfair to them, but great for US citizens.
True. After moving to the US it took me a good three years before I could drive like a big enough asshole to survive in Jersey traffic.
I am still hoping to be able to master Manhattan traffic one day, but I suspect you have to be born with that level of disregard for life, laws and manners. I don't think I'll ever be able to reach that level assholery.
Warning people of how they will be expected to drive should really be a part of the process of getting an H1. And there should be some form of de-programming available as well to H1s (and other immigrants) that teach you how to drive normally again when you leave the US. I know every time I visit my parents they refuse to let me drive... or at least refuse to get in the same car as me.
Too true... unfortunately it seems that SUV drivers believe the hype that they are invincible. I'm "trail-rated" so I can go anywhere at any speed!
I saw the result of this last Saturday when there was some freezing rain early in the morning. Driving down Route 80 I counted 14 accidents in the space of about 20 miles. The majority of the vehicles involved were SUVs, and when a car was involved it was usually because an idiot in an SUV had rear-ended them. Worst accident was some large SUV that looked liked it had rolled end-over-end. Couldn't have been more squashed if it had been hit by a train.
The combination of vehicle weight and perceived driver invincibility seems to make SUVs deathtraps in anything other than perfect driving conditions. Ironic, when you think about it.
you know that humanism, atheism, and being agnostic are all religions too
How the hell is atheism a religion? That's like saying that black is just another color. Or that not believing in a fat guy in a red suit delivering presents is just another way of believing in Santa Claus. Or that not screwing your sister is just another form of incest.
If you think nothing humanity has created is worth anything without the blessing of some space fairy, then I guess you are right. I just figure that the existence of some omnipotent pointy haired boss does not really impact anything we have to do to as species. If god exists then it is obviously not doing anything to help humanity, so it is up to us to survive. If it doesn't exist, it is still up to us to survive.
I guess it comes down to whether you want to do something because you think the space fairy told you so, or because it makes sense from a species survival point of view. Does there really have to be any reason other than that?
If there is no God/gods no absolute truth that is critically relevant and can be known then WHY should i care about science?
Well, there is no real "WHY". But think about it this way, if we as a species didn't spend a lot of time caring about science, then you probably would not have been around ask that question. Hell, without science you would still be cowering in a cave somewhere, wondering if that sound you just heard was a lion who invited himself to dinner.
So there is no reason for you to care about science, other than that it is the one way we have of improving our chances, both individually and as a species, of surviving a little longer. If it makes you feel better to believe in some omnipotent space fairy, then go ahead. What really matters is whether you help or hinder the survival of the species.
You are probably asking "but why should the species care about survivial if there is no universal truth". What it comes down to is that it doesn't really matter. If the species stops caring about survival it pretty soon won't be around anymore. The problem pretty much solves itself.
Actually, if there is a god out there, I think it is probably even more in our interest to learn as much about the universe as possible. I mean, if a god exists he is certainly not looking out for us. It might be time for a coup...
Uhm. I think your argument isn't very well thought out. I'd say this would be more a case of me going over and burning down your house in self-defence, partly because I wanted to see how my new flame thrower works on inhabited buildings.
Ok... but I've always wondered why they had to bomb a city. Why not just take out Mount Fuji or something? Or go after a military target to make their point?
Not that anywbody was blameless in WW2. Broadly the Allies were the "good guys", but a lot of times they were just as bad if not worse than their enemies. But once you hear about the bombing of Dresden you start realizing that the "good guys" were a truly relative term in WW2. Or any war for that matter.
Let us pretend I am a really rich guy. Because I am also a really nice guy I allow a destitute couple to move into one of my houses. Pretty soon the husband starts abusing his wife. He keeps her locked up in the basement, beats her and refuses to give her food. She is slowly starving to death and in great pain.
I see all of this happening, but I don't interfere. It is not me killing the woman, so I am not being cruel. Even though I can help her at any time by calling the police, I just sit and watch her suffer.
So is it OK for me to just sit there and watch her die? I guess it is, because I am only doing what God would do in the same situation. And we all know that God is good...
Yeah. Which is kind of sad. Jesus would have really hated his legacy. The Christian Right especially would have pissed him off.
I'm an atheist, but I figure I would have liked Jesus. After all he was pretty much a commie-hippy-pinko-liberal, so we would probably have been voting for the same guy come election day.
Very, very, very few Christians believe that the bible is literally correct. If the Bible says "and the mountains sang with joy", does that mean that they grew wind pipes and sand a song? No. The Bible deals in metaphor, and a huge percentage of Christains believe so.
Well, in the US at least the percentage of people who believe the bible is literally true stands at around 63%.
What I find funny is that almost none of them seem to be following the words of Jesus. These days Christian and hypocrite seem to be synonyms.
Don't agree. Send everybody in the country to the army. Let them realize how badly army life sucks for the average person.
You might end up having less wars.
BTW, the problem with the US isn't its army. It is the idiots in charge of it. Notice how the one military guy in the administration was pretty much ignored by all the idiots who had never been in the military...
Well, that is probably the right way to go about it. But that would mean every gun owner having to be licensed and having to prove they were licensed when buying a gun/ammunition.
I can just imagine what the NRA will have to say about that idea...
Slashdot Mirror
They actually did reverse trades in something like 6 of the 146 affected symbols. These were stocks that were clearly trading completely out of their realistic ranges, so a small portion of trades were reversed. Though I'm sure Knight was begging them to reverse all the trades...
Wish I had mod points, but instead I'll just add a comment to agree with you.
This whole thing has nothing to do with HFT, except that a bunch of uninformed idiots who have no idea what they are talking about have decided to spout off about HFT. Because it sounds exciting, not because it had anything to do with what happened.
Very true. Be nice, be as honest as you can without stepping on any toes, and don't burn any bridges if you can avoid it. The world is much smaller place than many people realize, and even if you don't end up back at the same company there is a good chance you might end up with some of the same co-workers one day.
Taking your points in order:
1. Adding random delays to all trades will make life harder for (some) HFT traders, but will also add uncertainty to all trades. More uncertainty is rarely a good thing in the markets.
2. Ron Paul for higher taxes! (Hey, it's your sig, not mine). So you seem to support Ron Paul with your signature, but at the same time want more government interference because you think the HFT guys are making too much money. And you even want to use taxes to kill their business. The amount of cognitive dissonance is astounding.
3. HFT guys will love this. They usually stop trading when there is a chance of their trades being reversed. So making it impossible will just make it easier for them.
3. enact a rule that all trades stand.. erroneous trades made by a computer algorithm will never get rolled back
THIS. It is total bullshit that if your computer fucks up massively you get a rollback. Keep your winnings if you win, get your money back if you lose. What a deal for the big firms.
I think the HFT people would be the first to support this rule.
Remember the "flash crash"? From what I understand the reason the market went into freefall was that a lot of the HFT folk pulled out of the market when they though there was a risk their trades would be reversed. So they turned of their computers and the liquidity they added to the market disappeared. Result... market goes into freefall.
Posting about personal responsibility... anonymously...
I'd make a joke, but I think you covered it.
OK, so this is anecdotal, and we all know the plural of anecdote is not data...
I buy lots of books, and I can barely remember the last time I bought a book from a source other than Amazon. Even the used books I buy I get through Amazon's marketplace. About 2 months ago I finally broke down and bought a Kindle. I bought it to use on my commute, with the idea that I'd finally get around to reading all the classics (which are free), but would rather buy paper books for anything else.
Two months later I have been completely converted to the Kindle. I now don't even bother looking at books that I can't buy on the Kindle. It kind of sucks, as a lot of publishers charge a premium on Kindle books (how the hell do they justify that???), and other books simply are not available. But the convenience of reading on a Kindle trumps the disadvantages for me.
So for me at least, buying paper books is now a last resort.
So here is something I always ask when people complain about H1B workers. You are going to compete against people from India/China/etc. no matter what you do. But would you rather have them in the US, where they have to compete against you while having the same cost of living as you, or while living in their home country where the cost of living is a fraction of that in the US?
Even better, a lot H1Bs go back home after a few years. However, during their time in the US they paid into the social security fund, a benefit they will never be able to claim. Unfair to them, but great for US citizens.
True. After moving to the US it took me a good three years before I could drive like a big enough asshole to survive in Jersey traffic.
I am still hoping to be able to master Manhattan traffic one day, but I suspect you have to be born with that level of disregard for life, laws and manners. I don't think I'll ever be able to reach that level assholery.
Warning people of how they will be expected to drive should really be a part of the process of getting an H1. And there should be some form of de-programming available as well to H1s (and other immigrants) that teach you how to drive normally again when you leave the US. I know every time I visit my parents they refuse to let me drive... or at least refuse to get in the same car as me.
Inconcievable!
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Too true... unfortunately it seems that SUV drivers believe the hype that they are invincible. I'm "trail-rated" so I can go anywhere at any speed!
I saw the result of this last Saturday when there was some freezing rain early in the morning. Driving down Route 80 I counted 14 accidents in the space of about 20 miles. The majority of the vehicles involved were SUVs, and when a car was involved it was usually because an idiot in an SUV had rear-ended them. Worst accident was some large SUV that looked liked it had rolled end-over-end. Couldn't have been more squashed if it had been hit by a train.
The combination of vehicle weight and perceived driver invincibility seems to make SUVs deathtraps in anything other than perfect driving conditions. Ironic, when you think about it.
you know that humanism, atheism, and being agnostic are all religions too
How the hell is atheism a religion? That's like saying that black is just another color. Or that not believing in a fat guy in a red suit delivering presents is just another way of believing in Santa Claus. Or that not screwing your sister is just another form of incest.
If you think nothing humanity has created is worth anything without the blessing of some space fairy, then I guess you are right. I just figure that the existence of some omnipotent pointy haired boss does not really impact anything we have to do to as species. If god exists then it is obviously not doing anything to help humanity, so it is up to us to survive. If it doesn't exist, it is still up to us to survive.
I guess it comes down to whether you want to do something because you think the space fairy told you so, or because it makes sense from a species survival point of view. Does there really have to be any reason other than that?
If there is no God/gods no absolute truth that is critically relevant and can be known then WHY should i care about science?
Well, there is no real "WHY". But think about it this way, if we as a species didn't spend a lot of time caring about science, then you probably would not have been around ask that question. Hell, without science you would still be cowering in a cave somewhere, wondering if that sound you just heard was a lion who invited himself to dinner.
So there is no reason for you to care about science, other than that it is the one way we have of improving our chances, both individually and as a species, of surviving a little longer. If it makes you feel better to believe in some omnipotent space fairy, then go ahead. What really matters is whether you help or hinder the survival of the species.
You are probably asking "but why should the species care about survivial if there is no universal truth". What it comes down to is that it doesn't really matter. If the species stops caring about survival it pretty soon won't be around anymore. The problem pretty much solves itself.
Actually, if there is a god out there, I think it is probably even more in our interest to learn as much about the universe as possible. I mean, if a god exists he is certainly not looking out for us. It might be time for a coup...
Uhm. I think your argument isn't very well thought out. I'd say this would be more a case of me going over and burning down your house in self-defence, partly because I wanted to see how my new flame thrower works on inhabited buildings.
Oh, and fuck you, you clueless asshole.
Ok... but I've always wondered why they had to bomb a city. Why not just take out Mount Fuji or something? Or go after a military target to make their point?
Not that anywbody was blameless in WW2. Broadly the Allies were the "good guys", but a lot of times they were just as bad if not worse than their enemies. But once you hear about the bombing of Dresden you start realizing that the "good guys" were a truly relative term in WW2. Or any war for that matter.
Strange. I've worked in quite a few countries. They have all taxed me. But for some reason they never wanted me to vote in their elections...
Come to thnk of it, I wonder how the last US election would have gone if all those tax paying H1-Bs could have voted?
OK, so how about this?
Let us pretend I am a really rich guy. Because I am also a really nice guy I allow a destitute couple to move into one of my houses. Pretty soon the husband starts abusing his wife. He keeps her locked up in the basement, beats her and refuses to give her food. She is slowly starving to death and in great pain.
I see all of this happening, but I don't interfere. It is not me killing the woman, so I am not being cruel. Even though I can help her at any time by calling the police, I just sit and watch her suffer.
So is it OK for me to just sit there and watch her die? I guess it is, because I am only doing what God would do in the same situation. And we all know that God is good...
Yeah. Which is kind of sad. Jesus would have really hated his legacy. The Christian Right especially would have pissed him off.
I'm an atheist, but I figure I would have liked Jesus. After all he was pretty much a commie-hippy-pinko-liberal, so we would probably have been voting for the same guy come election day.
Very, very, very few Christians believe that the bible is literally correct. If the Bible says "and the mountains sang with joy", does that mean that they grew wind pipes and sand a song? No. The Bible deals in metaphor, and a huge percentage of Christains believe so.
Well, in the US at least the percentage of people who believe the bible is literally true stands at around 63%.
What I find funny is that almost none of them seem to be following the words of Jesus. These days Christian and hypocrite seem to be synonyms.
Actually the platypus lays eggs and feeds its young with breasts. So it does happen on Earth.
Then again, if you have to use the platypus to justify anything you have probably gone too far...
At least until after my first cup of coffee in the morning...
Don't agree. Send everybody in the country to the army. Let them realize how badly army life sucks for the average person.
You might end up having less wars.
BTW, the problem with the US isn't its army. It is the idiots in charge of it. Notice how the one military guy in the administration was pretty much ignored by all the idiots who had never been in the military...
Well, that is probably the right way to go about it. But that would mean every gun owner having to be licensed and having to prove they were licensed when buying a gun/ammunition.
I can just imagine what the NRA will have to say about that idea...
And what does that have to do with the argument???