Eventully you have to do or make something cars, planes, software, genetic s, spaceships SOMETHING.
U know... I've always been bothered by the workforce I see all around me. I live in NYC, use the subway, etc. What strikes me is the total lack of non-service or non-office jobs. It's like the whole population of NYC is divided into `moving papers around the office' (managers, secretaries, etc), or those that `help them do that' (fast food places, plumbers, etc.)
Ah, `service' economy at work. But where is the `wealth' coming from??? That's like the whole city that doesn't produce anything. I'm assuming it's the `brain center' of somewhere (maybe India?), that's helping feed this population of office workers.
Try this mind game: Hire 10000 office workers. Rent a whole building. Have 5000 of those 10000 dedicate their daily jobs to managing the other 5000. Have those other 5000 spend their day browsing the web and using IM. That's the workforce right there. But where do their salaries come from? Who pays the rent on the building?, etc.
The point is that somewhere down the road, you do need manufacturing to actually create wealth. Service jobs do not create wealth. Software industry does not create wealth. The Microsoft is an accident of history - software companies should make other business more profitable, not the other way around.
Look at sky scrapers. Each and every one of those buildings is filled with office workers. For a vast majority, their everyday work is irrelevant (things would just keep on moving if most didn't show up for work one day). In addition to it all, most of those office workers hate their jobs, but can't quit due to $$$.
Ok, I'll agree with pretty much most of what you're saying... except the world can handle only so many `developers', and it seems US has reached a limit a few years ago. So lets say India/China produce 10x more developers who are 10x better, etc., still, most of them will be unemployed (even if they're dime a dozen).
an American, in this case, would have to produce 4x as much to compete
"as much" is really vague when it comes to software. ie: Over the weekend I can write an app that in my mind is `worth' more than what 1000 engineers can think up over a year.
I've noticed that most jobs that are moving abroad are low skill programming. ie: making GUIs in VisualStudio, or writing DB interfaces, etc. Not actually building software that solves business problems. Dealing with customers (figuring out exactly what they want/need) can't be effectively outsourced. (you can't have the client ramble on a bit, and then send the specs to India, have a ready product in a few months, and have it be exactly what the client wanted).
Also, in software development, quantity does not equal quality. ie: id Software has very few developers, that somehow manage to compete with multi-billion dollar corporations with hundreds of times more resources.
Just look at hardware manufacturing (Taiwan/China/etc), textiles (Latin America, Asia), etc.
Well, unlike manufacturing, you don't need fancy plants/equipment or huge teams to make software. That means that as soon as it becomes slightly more convinient for folks to work here, jobs will come back.
I'm about to go onto college. I planned on majoring in CompSci, but I don't want to move aboard to get a job.
If CompSci (or EE) is really your `interest', then don't let a little thing like economy stand in your way. If you want it mainly for a `job' (and not of any particular interest), then do not go into those fields.
ie: Why do poeple go to art school? It's definitely not because of money.
Best advice: Whatever you do, do not pick something that you don't trully enjoy. Most lawyers hate their jobs - mostly because they went after the $$$ when they decided on which field to persue.
Many people have gone into CS (for $$$?) only to find that they're not meant for this field (they ruined the perception of the field, and most of them are currently unemployed).
The great news is that if you trully enjoy something (be it something weird like art, or computers), then usually you'll be able to find $$$ in the long run. (and don't believe the rumor that there are `no jobs' out there; just about all my comp-sci friends are working in the field, and I'm a contractor on 2 projects; ie: there are jobs out there if you have the right sort of passion for this field).
I dunno how they do it, but here's how this sort of thing `might' work (at least how I'd imagine it):
Every camera that ships has a `secret key' (sorta like those cryptographically secure dial-in-password keychains that people carry around). Everytime the camera takes a picture, it also digitally signs the image (take hash, then sign the hash), and stores the signature right along the image file.
Nobody (within reason) can get at the secret key within any particular camera (smart cart hacking applies?). If the image is to be used in court - the camera's serial number (the camera has to be present in court) is used to find the camera's public key (on manufacturer's website?), and verify the signed image.
Nobody (but the camera) knows or stores the camera's secret key. (first time the camera is booted it generates the key, and displays it's public key to the world; which the manufacturer saves in their db).
Unless someone hacks their camera and figures out the camera's secret key (note that working camera has to be present in court), the method appears to be relatively secure (?).
They are clearly out to get people to switch from Windows to LindowsOS by imitating MicroSoft's product. They are just asking for it.
What about Microsoft imitating Apple???
And... all of a sudden, all these "Xs" started appearing... OSX, WinXP, Xbox, what's up with that? (are they all `imitating' X11?:-)
I say they should be able to name it anything they feel like, ie: Windowz, or whatever. It's a different product, from a different company - who cares if they `sound' or `appear to sound' similarly.
If someone types www.mikerowesoft.com instead of microsoft.com they deserve to end up at a different website. If someone buys Lindows thinking it's Windows, they deserve it (I mean, who would confuse the two???)
So while it may sound the same, function the same, etc., one company shouldn't be allowed to screw with another company on such naming issues.
I got an idea, why don't Microsoft go after openOffice? They obviously are imitating msOffice.
In other news, Microsoft sues Windows Manufacturers across the world for the use of their trademark:-)
It's obscene to say that someone who gets a four-year degree developing a fairly technical skill deserves to barely gets paid enough to get by and make payments on their university debt.
Very good point. I have a friend in his 30's who still has to pay off $80k in university debt (law school). At the rate he's paying, he'll be done in his mid-40s, at which point, he may become more financially free to consider making a down payment on a house. (apparently many lawyers are just as unemployed, and just as desparate as tech folks).
Does it really pay to get an education to be in debt for most of the better years of your life?
It's funny how in all these scenarios the only people who seem to win are lawyers.
How about lawyers don't get paid if they loose a case?, and their salaries get rerouted to the other side.
(ie: huge corporation sues little guy. little guy wins. lawyers of big corporation make $0, and their millions (that they would've made) go to the little guy's lawyers. Similarly, if a little guy sues the big corp, and wins, he gets money for their lawyers. Also, if the little guy sues the big corp, and looses, the little guy's lawyer gets $0, and the little guy doesn't owe anything).
Wasn't that the whole argument: folks who cannot get a job should start a company???
Yes, you can start with very little money (to run the `business'), but you really can't `run a business' when you're worried about paying rent or buying groceries.
I've had a company that went well for a little while, but when around 2001 it started sucking bad for a while, I really started to appriciate the stability and financial security I had when I was an employee.
So if you don't have a plan for living two years without income, forget the zero-dollar startup and go get a job.
Exactly. Which makes it sort of pointless for the unemployed to be starting a company. (unless they have the funds to not worry about the unemployment in the first place).
Ahh!!! Which is precicely the point why a college degree is not worth much these days! I absolutely agree! (although more to the topic, I still think it's worth more than some `certificate').
Well, I'm a PhD student. While I paid for the masters out of pocket (then again, I had a great job at the time), the PhD is free (/me got a fellowship to cover tuition), and they also provide easy (few hours a week) work that pays enough to stay afloat (and I also teach, which is another income source).
ie: financially, there is no reason not to go for a PhD, and masters isn't usually that expensive either (and could probably be free if you bother to lookup various grants/fellowships, etc.)
Slashdot Mirror
Eventully you have to do or make something cars, planes, software, genetic s, spaceships SOMETHING.
U know... I've always been bothered by the workforce I see all around me. I live in NYC, use the subway, etc. What strikes me is the total lack of non-service or non-office jobs. It's like the whole population of NYC is divided into `moving papers around the office' (managers, secretaries, etc), or those that `help them do that' (fast food places, plumbers, etc.)
Ah, `service' economy at work. But where is the `wealth' coming from??? That's like the whole city that doesn't produce anything. I'm assuming it's the `brain center' of somewhere (maybe India?), that's helping feed this population of office workers.
Try this mind game: Hire 10000 office workers. Rent a whole building. Have 5000 of those 10000 dedicate their daily jobs to managing the other 5000. Have those other 5000 spend their day browsing the web and using IM. That's the workforce right there. But where do their salaries come from? Who pays the rent on the building?, etc.
The point is that somewhere down the road, you do need manufacturing to actually create wealth. Service jobs do not create wealth. Software industry does not create wealth. The Microsoft is an accident of history - software companies should make other business more profitable, not the other way around.
Look at sky scrapers. Each and every one of those buildings is filled with office workers. For a vast majority, their everyday work is irrelevant (things would just keep on moving if most didn't show up for work one day). In addition to it all, most of those office workers hate their jobs, but can't quit due to $$$.
It's a weird world.
Ok, I'll agree with pretty much most of what you're saying... except the world can handle only so many `developers', and it seems US has reached a limit a few years ago. So lets say India/China produce 10x more developers who are 10x better, etc., still, most of them will be unemployed (even if they're dime a dozen).
Better?
In other news... government officials embarasingly admitted that they need glasses but don't like to wear them.
If you charge for email, people will just move over to instant messengers or other systems.
But then they'll impose charges on IM, and the very bits that fly around. Oh, wait...
Actually, mobile phone companies already charge folks per IM message, so you can't just send millions of them without pay.
Wasn't the Internet developed for military use with funding from DARPA...
:-)
Wasn't it Al Gore?
an American, in this case, would have to produce 4x as much to compete
"as much" is really vague when it comes to software. ie: Over the weekend I can write an app that in my mind is `worth' more than what 1000 engineers can think up over a year.
I've noticed that most jobs that are moving abroad are low skill programming. ie: making GUIs in VisualStudio, or writing DB interfaces, etc. Not actually building software that solves business problems. Dealing with customers (figuring out exactly what they want/need) can't be effectively outsourced. (you can't have the client ramble on a bit, and then send the specs to India, have a ready product in a few months, and have it be exactly what the client wanted).
Also, in software development, quantity does not equal quality. ie: id Software has very few developers, that somehow manage to compete with multi-billion dollar corporations with hundreds of times more resources.
ie: the manufacturer never gets the `private' key... just the public key :-)
Then learn plumbing. afer thet, start your own plumbing business.
After reading a ton of posts here, I can imagine that in 10 years, we'll have nothing but unemployed plumbers and car mechanics.
Just look at hardware manufacturing (Taiwan/China/etc), textiles (Latin America, Asia), etc.
Well, unlike manufacturing, you don't need fancy plants/equipment or huge teams to make software. That means that as soon as it becomes slightly more convinient for folks to work here, jobs will come back.
I'm about to go onto college. I planned on majoring in CompSci, but I don't want to move aboard to get a job.
If CompSci (or EE) is really your `interest', then don't let a little thing like economy stand in your way. If you want it mainly for a `job' (and not of any particular interest), then do not go into those fields.
ie: Why do poeple go to art school? It's definitely not because of money.
Best advice: Whatever you do, do not pick something that you don't trully enjoy. Most lawyers hate their jobs - mostly because they went after the $$$ when they decided on which field to persue.
Many people have gone into CS (for $$$?) only to find that they're not meant for this field (they ruined the perception of the field, and most of them are currently unemployed).
The great news is that if you trully enjoy something (be it something weird like art, or computers), then usually you'll be able to find $$$ in the long run. (and don't believe the rumor that there are `no jobs' out there; just about all my comp-sci friends are working in the field, and I'm a contractor on 2 projects; ie: there are jobs out there if you have the right sort of passion for this field).
Become an Auto Mechanic, a Mortician, or a Lawyer.
Amm... Most Lawyers are actually pretty job desparate themselves (almost as much as programmers).
Unless you're planning to start a lawfirm (ie: similar to a programmer starting a software company), then you're not gonna make enough.
I dunno how they do it, but here's how this sort of thing `might' work (at least how I'd imagine it):
Every camera that ships has a `secret key' (sorta like those cryptographically secure dial-in-password keychains that people carry around). Everytime the camera takes a picture, it also digitally signs the image (take hash, then sign the hash), and stores the signature right along the image file.
Nobody (within reason) can get at the secret key within any particular camera (smart cart hacking applies?). If the image is to be used in court - the camera's serial number (the camera has to be present in court) is used to find the camera's public key (on manufacturer's website?), and verify the signed image.
Nobody (but the camera) knows or stores the camera's secret key. (first time the camera is booted it generates the key, and displays it's public key to the world; which the manufacturer saves in their db).
Unless someone hacks their camera and figures out the camera's secret key (note that working camera has to be present in court), the method appears to be relatively secure (?).
Hmm... just calculated mine... 38.5% (wow, I never realized it was this much).
(this doesn't include 401K, etc., just federal, state, city, medicare, blah blah blah blah, and you end up with very little of the actual `money').
Hey! Doesn't that sounds a lot like Darl's business plan?
:-)
And it seems to be working, isn't it? Heh.
AAAARRRGGHHH!
Hmm... I can't seem to find that word in the dictionary.
Go blow yourself.
They are clearly out to get people to switch from Windows to LindowsOS by imitating MicroSoft's product. They are just asking for it.
:-)
:-)
What about Microsoft imitating Apple???
And... all of a sudden, all these "Xs" started appearing... OSX, WinXP, Xbox, what's up with that? (are they all `imitating' X11?
I say they should be able to name it anything they feel like, ie: Windowz, or whatever. It's a different product, from a different company - who cares if they `sound' or `appear to sound' similarly.
If someone types www.mikerowesoft.com instead of microsoft.com they deserve to end up at a different website. If someone buys Lindows thinking it's Windows, they deserve it (I mean, who would confuse the two???)
So while it may sound the same, function the same, etc., one company shouldn't be allowed to screw with another company on such naming issues.
I got an idea, why don't Microsoft go after openOffice? They obviously are imitating msOffice.
In other news, Microsoft sues Windows Manufacturers across the world for the use of their trademark
Actually, as a doctor he may be in a very unique position to make the computer field move for him.
Ie: this is the type of person who can automate (or at least improve) all of his friend's med businesses (even if he does use free software to do it).
And major clinics are more likely to trust a doctor than a regular joe in replacing/setting up a patient information system.
He may also be interested in expanding fields like bio-research.
ie: knowledge of both fields may put him way above the curve in job/contract searching.
And to add to that, Dell ships FreeDOS ready systems :-)
It's obscene to say that someone who gets a four-year degree developing a fairly technical skill deserves to barely gets paid enough to get by and make payments on their university debt.
Very good point. I have a friend in his 30's who still has to pay off $80k in university debt (law school). At the rate he's paying, he'll be done in his mid-40s, at which point, he may become more financially free to consider making a down payment on a house. (apparently many lawyers are just as unemployed, and just as desparate as tech folks).
Does it really pay to get an education to be in debt for most of the better years of your life?
The trick is that if this ever went to course (and won?) the lawyers would be the ones who profit most.
This causes even more people to go to law school to become just like those fat-cat lawyers.
And in the end, you find that everyone's a lawyer (kinda like everyone's an IT person now a days).
It's funny how in all these scenarios the only people who seem to win are lawyers.
How about lawyers don't get paid if they loose a case?, and their salaries get rerouted to the other side.
(ie: huge corporation sues little guy. little guy wins. lawyers of big corporation make $0, and their millions (that they would've made) go to the little guy's lawyers. Similarly, if a little guy sues the big corp, and wins, he gets money for their lawyers. Also, if the little guy sues the big corp, and looses, the little guy's lawyer gets $0, and the little guy doesn't owe anything).
If a salary is important to you go get a job.
Wasn't that the whole argument: folks who cannot get a job should start a company???
Yes, you can start with very little money (to run the `business'), but you really can't `run a business' when you're worried about paying rent or buying groceries.
I've had a company that went well for a little while, but when around 2001 it started sucking bad for a while, I really started to appriciate the stability and financial security I had when I was an employee.
So if you don't have a plan for living two years without income, forget the zero-dollar startup and go get a job.
Exactly. Which makes it sort of pointless for the unemployed to be starting a company. (unless they have the funds to not worry about the unemployment in the first place).
a lot of people use easy to guess passwords
Actually, my password is: "easy to guess".
Nobody seems to have guessed it yet.
Ahh!!! Which is precicely the point why a college degree is not worth much these days! I absolutely agree! (although more to the topic, I still think it's worth more than some `certificate').
The lesser of two evils?
Well, I'm a PhD student. While I paid for the masters out of pocket (then again, I had a great job at the time), the PhD is free (/me got a fellowship to cover tuition), and they also provide easy (few hours a week) work that pays enough to stay afloat (and I also teach, which is another income source).
ie: financially, there is no reason not to go for a PhD, and masters isn't usually that expensive either (and could probably be free if you bother to lookup various grants/fellowships, etc.)