"No, you need to do daily admin on a print server because people are constantly moving, adding and eliminating printers in the environment."
On a daily basis? I'll conceed my point and scamper off to the trollie pen if this is the case. If not, please restate what you said.
--- "Same with file services. New shares need to be created..."
New shares are a part of daily maintenance? Can't you come up with a system that's a little bit more steady and dynamic?
--- "permissions need to be updated"
Oh? Were they not set properly the first time?
--- "groups need to be maintained."
Agreed, however when imagining groups like "documentation", "client_services", etc., I find it hard to believe that this can account for much maintenance, even in a large system.
In general, I must admit I've never admined servers for more than 50 or so folks. However, it seems to me that you're doing a lot of work that can be automated or negated with a good service design.
--- "It baffles me when people who have obviously never been server admins think they are in a position to tell me how to run my servers."
If indeed you can't set up your services to me more maintenance free, as stated, I'll run and play with the other trolls.
If you're an admin set in your ways, of course it would appear to you that I've never admined servers... I'm not doing it the right way [your way], right? Just something you might want to consider in an unbiased fashion.
You might need to do daily admin on a Windows print server, clearing out bad jobs and such, but a cron takes care of this on Linux. And if you're doing daily maintenance on a file server, you've got some issues. Adding new files is not "maintenance."
The whitepaper takes place during this "5-year study of a 2 year old product." The points are still very relevant, since most have not changed.
And to any trolls that want to say "Linux != UNIX"... go look at the common server software and admin applications and notice how... *SHOCK*... most run on both.
Pretty nice theory in general, and for the most part, I agree, but realistically you have to realize (heh) that most folks won't participate in a boycott of something like The Sims. If I wanted to get rid of advertising in The Sims, I would have to be pretty damn ticked not to buy it given the likelyhood of me helping to change anything.
I'm all up for the philosophy that you've got to stick your neck out and hope others follow, but sometimes you've just got to realize that most folks are just sheep who buy things.
It's just a bunch of over-paid yuppies with too much time on their hands. "Where else can we push our ads into?" Somehow corporations think that marketing will fix all the problems with their product. The scary part is that I suppose that view is justified, to a point.
Regarding the over-paid yuppies with too much time on their hands, it's the same with lawyers, but I digress.
I would like to add that not a whole lot of people will stop buying the games... it's likely folks will just go with it. It's annoying, and they want it to stop, which is why they buy it and voice their opinion.
On a tangent, I really wish folks would quit with the mentality that you either don't buy it or shut up. Just because you protest changes you don't like doesn't mean you can't like the overall product.... yeesh.
I was going to reply, but you said it for me. Mod parent up, folks. =)
The point is to smile, live, learn, and then keep the world healthy for the next generation so more people can smile, live, learn, etc. Letting it end while we enjoy it for ourselves is irresponsible.
1a. windows will update itself, should i care to let it do so.
I should also add a note about all the wonderful features that Microsoft likes to install (read: DRM), change (read: EULAs), and re-enable (read: auto-update) when you update your system, but nah, you folks are surely aware of all those.
1a. windows will update itself, should i care to let it do so.
If you think that updates for holes come out relatively close to the time exploits are found in the wild, you're a horrible student of history and I won't feel sorry for you.
--- 1b. so will my anti-virus software
You get some credit with that one. But, in the case of commercial virus scanners (almost always the case), that assumes you still have the update service and paid for a virus scanner in the first place. The point doesn't hold much value, but it should be noted that not all vulnerabilities are exploited through files 100% of the time (read: service exploits).
--- Ditto. speaking of open doors, you did remember to turn off all the crazy shit mandrake installs by default, and patch all your server proggies, and setup your ipchaining, and tunneling for the X server... etc. etc.
Nearly *EVERY* system will require some tweaks -- that's assumed. However, take Joe Public, get him to install Red Hat, and likely he'll set the firewall setting to medium or high. Even given no firewalls, a Red Hat or Debian system is less vulnerable by default than a Windows OS.
This is not a black and white issue. To say that "WINDOWS IS INSECURE RUN TO LINUX WHERE THE DOORS ARE ALL LOCKED" is retarded, but to dismiss the whole argument is a fallacy. This area is grey -- there are different levels of being secure.
What about those who learn Java or Perl first and don't want to dip into the murky waters of C?
That was me when I started programming.
Then again, there's the question of whether C *should* be learned. It sounds ridiculous to some of 'ye old folk' who think that anything but C is stupid, but as far as I can see, the only real benefit of C is speed. It's widely known, sure, but that will, like with all other things, change in time.
As a disclaimer, I work with Fortran and C for a living. I'm not as ignorant as some would think, but more than others would think. Don't flame, enlighten through logic and making the connections.
I think everyone should learn Perl first. Stick with me, this is a humorously serious post...
Semester 1: Learn Perl.
Semester 2: Write tons and tons and tons of Perl. *Not* graded on correctness and good style.
Semester 3: Debug said code written in semester 2.
As a programmer who started with Perl using gotos, I can personally tell you that debuging your own horrible code is a good enough way to teach good coding, at least in style and design. And Perl is so easy to muck up, it's ridiculous.
On a tangent, that's why I love Perl. It's like English: it's so flexible and can be so cryptic that a bad programmer can quickly create a mess. However, following the analogy with English, a good programmer can make a masterpiece in short time.
I can't wait to see Perl 6 in action. Once they improve OOP style Perl, I'm set.
CEOs and worker drones are often quoted as the reason for upgrading, as far as I can see. Perceived value has a lot to do with it.
Stablitity is another. 95 -> 98. 98 -> W2k. NT -> W2k server. It seems that Microsoft's new found stability is one of the reasons why they're pushing their continuous upgrade licensing scheme -- try to convince people into a continuous contract rather than push them over the hill of paying out the big bucks all at once for a full upgrade.
Of course, the trouble is that folks are a touch smarter than that and they're looking at other platforms.
True. I should add that this is true mostly only in the modern world. In countries like America, we (or at least I was) are taught to question the government and think for ourselves. Maybe I was lucky, or maybe I'm just particularly rebellious. I do know plenty of complacent folks, but I also know plenty who question such things.
He's not saying that. He's saying that our tendency to question things will eventually weed out these "bad truths."
Ignoring racism is not the answer. Open discussion is. Instead of putting your hand over someone's mouth, just speak louder and clearer. If people can't decide then, they're destined to be retards anyway.
Don't mind the closed minded fools taking down your post. Censorship solves nothing. If people can't see that, then they will remain fools.
Ideas, questioning our beliefs, are all a part of life. When given all the information and a chance to decide, that is when people are made. Social engineering will help nothing. If someone with all the information can't make wise decisions, they will be fools regardless of what information we attempt to hide from them.
Do you ignoramuses really think that hiding racism on the web from people will make a difference? Pretty soon you'll want these laws in our schools, restaurants and homes.
When one body begins thinking for another, society has no meaning.
Slashdot Mirror
"No, you need to do daily admin on a print server because people are constantly moving, adding and eliminating printers in the environment."
On a daily basis? I'll conceed my point and scamper off to the trollie pen if this is the case. If not, please restate what you said.
---
"Same with file services. New shares need to be created..."
New shares are a part of daily maintenance? Can't you come up with a system that's a little bit more steady and dynamic?
---
"permissions need to be updated"
Oh? Were they not set properly the first time?
---
"groups need to be maintained."
Agreed, however when imagining groups like "documentation", "client_services", etc., I find it hard to believe that this can account for much maintenance, even in a large system.
In general, I must admit I've never admined servers for more than 50 or so folks. However, it seems to me that you're doing a lot of work that can be automated or negated with a good service design.
---
"It baffles me when people who have obviously never been server admins think they are in a position to tell me how to run my servers."
If indeed you can't set up your services to me more maintenance free, as stated, I'll run and play with the other trolls.
If you're an admin set in your ways, of course it would appear to you that I've never admined servers... I'm not doing it the right way [your way], right? Just something you might want to consider in an unbiased fashion.
*best Homer impression*
Emerge.... gaaaaahh *drool*
You might need to do daily admin on a Windows print server, clearing out bad jobs and such, but a cron takes care of this on Linux. And if you're doing daily maintenance on a file server, you've got some issues. Adding new files is not "maintenance."
Do a little educational reading:
Why UNIX is better than Windows... By Microsoft.
Attention misinformed persons! Read this:
... most run on both.
Why UNIX is better than Windows... By Microsoft.
The whitepaper takes place during this "5-year study of a 2 year old product." The points are still very relevant, since most have not changed.
And to any trolls that want to say "Linux != UNIX"... go look at the common server software and admin applications and notice how... *SHOCK*
While you do have a point, two things stand against it in some form:
1) People will buy things that are free. Example: Red Hat is profitable.
2) One cannot simply take source, build a program and sell it, if all source is required to be auditable. That violates copyright.
Here are some points for you:
1) opensource.org
Read some of it, you might find that it makes you think a bit more about this.
2) Just because something is OSS doesn't mean you can't sell it -- read: copyright law.
3) Just because something is free doesn't mean people won't buy it. You can download Red Hat for free. Red Hat as a company is profitable these days.
4) Many companies are based on solutions. Like the one I work for. Clients ask for custom programming, and we do it.
There are other points that you can read on opensource.org. Oh, and no, I have absolutely no relation to the OSI.
Pretty nice theory in general, and for the most part, I agree, but realistically you have to realize (heh) that most folks won't participate in a boycott of something like The Sims. If I wanted to get rid of advertising in The Sims, I would have to be pretty damn ticked not to buy it given the likelyhood of me helping to change anything.
I'm all up for the philosophy that you've got to stick your neck out and hope others follow, but sometimes you've just got to realize that most folks are just sheep who buy things.
It's just a bunch of over-paid yuppies with too much time on their hands. "Where else can we push our ads into?" Somehow corporations think that marketing will fix all the problems with their product. The scary part is that I suppose that view is justified, to a point.
Regarding the over-paid yuppies with too much time on their hands, it's the same with lawyers, but I digress.
Agreed.
... it's likely folks will just go with it. It's annoying, and they want it to stop, which is why they buy it and voice their opinion.
I would like to add that not a whole lot of people will stop buying the games
On a tangent, I really wish folks would quit with the mentality that you either don't buy it or shut up. Just because you protest changes you don't like doesn't mean you can't like the overall product.... yeesh.
I smell lawsuit potential...
Which one of you ambulance chasing laywers is going to help me sue EA for making me think I could eat all the McDonalds and not become fat?
Maybe I should sue McDonalds for making me fat, too...
Oh, that's already been done, you say? Hm...
I was going to reply, but you said it for me. Mod parent up, folks. =)
The point is to smile, live, learn, and then keep the world healthy for the next generation so more people can smile, live, learn, etc. Letting it end while we enjoy it for ourselves is irresponsible.
1a. windows will update itself, should i care to let it do so.
I should also add a note about all the wonderful features that Microsoft likes to install (read: DRM), change (read: EULAs), and re-enable (read: auto-update) when you update your system, but nah, you folks are surely aware of all those.
1a. windows will update itself, should i care to let it do so.
If you think that updates for holes come out relatively close to the time exploits are found in the wild, you're a horrible student of history and I won't feel sorry for you.
---
1b. so will my anti-virus software
You get some credit with that one. But, in the case of commercial virus scanners (almost always the case), that assumes you still have the update service and paid for a virus scanner in the first place. The point doesn't hold much value, but it should be noted that not all vulnerabilities are exploited through files 100% of the time (read: service exploits).
---
Ditto. speaking of open doors, you did remember to turn off all the crazy shit mandrake installs by default, and patch all your server proggies, and setup your ipchaining, and tunneling for the X server... etc. etc.
Nearly *EVERY* system will require some tweaks -- that's assumed. However, take Joe Public, get him to install Red Hat, and likely he'll set the firewall setting to medium or high. Even given no firewalls, a Red Hat or Debian system is less vulnerable by default than a Windows OS.
This is not a black and white issue. To say that "WINDOWS IS INSECURE RUN TO LINUX WHERE THE DOORS ARE ALL LOCKED" is retarded, but to dismiss the whole argument is a fallacy. This area is grey -- there are different levels of being secure.
I was just learning to program. I was coming from programming on Ti calculators. =P
Since then, I've taught myself the better programming techniques through working with my own bad code. =)
eh...
I should add, if it wasn't clear enough, that the CVS source download is free.
Just a suggestion... note to trolls, don't spew that "BUT NOT EVERYONE CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT!!!! J00 SUCK FAG" crap at me.
You can download the CVS version from transgaming. I did it about a year ago, I didn't have any trouble with it, it was pretty easy to install.
What about those who learn Java or Perl first and don't want to dip into the murky waters of C?
That was me when I started programming.
Then again, there's the question of whether C *should* be learned. It sounds ridiculous to some of 'ye old folk' who think that anything but C is stupid, but as far as I can see, the only real benefit of C is speed. It's widely known, sure, but that will, like with all other things, change in time.
As a disclaimer, I work with Fortran and C for a living. I'm not as ignorant as some would think, but more than others would think. Don't flame, enlighten through logic and making the connections.
Jesus, dude. Ouch.
Parent of the parent: read own advice column. k thx d00d
=)
I think everyone should learn Perl first. Stick with me, this is a humorously serious post...
Semester 1:
Learn Perl.
Semester 2:
Write tons and tons and tons of Perl. *Not* graded on correctness and good style.
Semester 3:
Debug said code written in semester 2.
As a programmer who started with Perl using gotos, I can personally tell you that debuging your own horrible code is a good enough way to teach good coding, at least in style and design. And Perl is so easy to muck up, it's ridiculous.
On a tangent, that's why I love Perl. It's like English: it's so flexible and can be so cryptic that a bad programmer can quickly create a mess. However, following the analogy with English, a good programmer can make a masterpiece in short time.
I can't wait to see Perl 6 in action. Once they improve OOP style Perl, I'm set.
The MPAA doesn't want you to be able to share these things. They can rub MS's back (how, I don't know...) and get DRM. But they can't with OSS.
I'm sure DeCSS just steams them up.
Sign up at one of those "Quiz your friends" sites.
Many e-card sites sell your address as well. Just check the privacy policy.
Or, just get a hotmail account. Or does the law say that the ISP hosting the email has to be in TN?
CEOs and worker drones are often quoted as the reason for upgrading, as far as I can see. Perceived value has a lot to do with it.
.02
Stablitity is another. 95 -> 98. 98 -> W2k. NT -> W2k server. It seems that Microsoft's new found stability is one of the reasons why they're pushing their continuous upgrade licensing scheme -- try to convince people into a continuous contract rather than push them over the hill of paying out the big bucks all at once for a full upgrade.
Of course, the trouble is that folks are a touch smarter than that and they're looking at other platforms.
Just my
True. I should add that this is true mostly only in the modern world. In countries like America, we (or at least I was) are taught to question the government and think for ourselves. Maybe I was lucky, or maybe I'm just particularly rebellious. I do know plenty of complacent folks, but I also know plenty who question such things.
He's not saying that. He's saying that our tendency to question things will eventually weed out these "bad truths."
Ignoring racism is not the answer. Open discussion is. Instead of putting your hand over someone's mouth, just speak louder and clearer. If people can't decide then, they're destined to be retards anyway.
Don't mind the closed minded fools taking down your post. Censorship solves nothing. If people can't see that, then they will remain fools.
Ideas, questioning our beliefs, are all a part of life. When given all the information and a chance to decide, that is when people are made. Social engineering will help nothing. If someone with all the information can't make wise decisions, they will be fools regardless of what information we attempt to hide from them.
Do you ignoramuses really think that hiding racism on the web from people will make a difference? Pretty soon you'll want these laws in our schools, restaurants and homes.
When one body begins thinking for another, society has no meaning.