"Bahahah! I wish I had some goddamned mod points. Plus I wish I could see this in action.:)"
Ugh, no thanks. I've played this game with him, it's funny until you realize somebody's watching. That slowly shaking head just makes you want to seep into the floor below you.
"LSD more often sparks insight or provides a novel point of view rather than causing outright delusions. Cocaine and amphetamines on the other hand can cause outright schizophreniform psychosis if taken for too long. This and the correlation between D2 receptor antagonism and antipsychotic potency is why schizophrenia is thought to be a largely dopaminergic disorder. Though it's becoming clear that glutaminergic and cholinergic systems play a significant role."
Could you please translate this for those of us that smoke crack?
" Why the hell sould we support some commercial company when we have a free browser whose mission is to be truly cross platform and free for everyone? "
Already covered that in my last post, numbnuts.
" It's as simple as that. The fact that you think otherwise shows how out of touch you are with reality."
Opera's out to make money, which is a stronger motivator than "the common good" Star Trek crap you brought up. Besides, Opera's farther ahead than Mozilla UI wise, Mozilla could use the competition.
"Can't understand why we don't all want to shell out cash for a browser or support some company that may go under some day leaving us with nothing?"
If Mozilla improves because of Opera, and it'll have to, then if Opera were to tank we'd still be left with a much better browser.
"Again, what a fucking idiot you are. "
Funny, it's hard to feel like an idiot when the guy calling me it isn't making any effort to understand me.
"Maybe not beta releases, but then why should they, unless Slashdot starts an advertising service?"
You mean like they do with Mozilla?
"Nauseating"? What are you, an Opera developer?"
Ah yes, the "You like this thing that I'm ill informed about? You must work for them!" debate technique. Has anybody ever won an argument that way? Has anybody ever actually done anything but ruin their credibility that way? Usually this technique is employed when somebody correctly points out that Microsoft has an edge over an OSS project. Strange that it's Opera this time.
"How exactly are we, developers or otherwise, supposed to, or expected to put our "eggs" in a basket of proprietary software?"
Saying "don't put your eggs in one basket" cannot possibly be mistaken for "put your eggs in another basket". Did you even take a moment to read what I said? I was talking about diverisifcation.
"What do you suggest, that we offer to do work free of charge for Opera, or maybe just give them, a private company, money just for the hell of it?"
Heaven forbid the Mozilla Community should feel the need to compete and make a browser that's better for all. No no, it's much easier to pretend that alternatives like Opera don't exist so they can just keep puttering around at their snail's pace.
"Seeing the obligatory Opera troll post in every Mozilla thread is equally nausiating.:)"
Give me some credit, at least I mentioned the Zaurus!;)
"In case you haven't noticed, Slashdot is biased towards open-source. Most slashdot readers are mainly interested in open source software."
Maybe I'm just not noticing it, but I'm not seeing "oo there's a new version number!' front page stories about much else than Mozilla. I'll leave the door open by saying that I'm not particularly attuned to it either. I just know that Mozilla is greatly overrated here.
I think Mozilla's open-sourcedness is greatly overrated as well. The important part is does it do browsing well? If the answer is yes, then how come Opera's not up there with it?
In any case, this topic's a bit tired. I can't change Slashdot. They act Open Source is so much better than proprietary closed standards. They don't realize that the pros and cons just shift around, they don't actually grow or decline. "Open Source Software is more secure!""Closed Source Software has a better, more attuned UI.""Closed source software is buggier than Open Source Software.""Closed Source Software is a for-profit business, meaning they have strong incentive to fix it."
Etc.
I wish things weren't so black and white here. I think that's really what's bugging me, not Mozilla's hype so much.
"Mozilla has been done catching up to IE for a while now... Maybe my brain's failing me, but I don't think IE has built in Tab browsing, popup blocking, and a whole other list of things Mozilla has."
That doesn't mean they're not still playing catchup. Spell checking? Yeesh.
Re:A conversation between two Mozilla programmers
on
Mozilla 1.5 Beta Released
·
· Score: 0, Offtopic
"Damn, the downloads have gone down. People are losing interest in Mozilla."
"Quick! Increment the version number!"
"There's a surge in downloads. It worked! We made Slashdot's front page again!"
Truely great satire makes one wonder if the joke is really a joke. Kudos.
"MSIE isn't violating the TCP standard. It's using a feature of HTTP called Keep-Alive. The connections really do exist, even if you're using Apache or any other halfway decent http server."
Oops. You didn't bash MS. No +1, Informative for you. No -1, Overrated for him.
It's time. Give Mozilla it's own topic. How about mozilla.slashdot.org or altbrowsers.slashdot.org?
I wouldn't mind, but we're not talking about earth-shattering news here. There's more catching up than innovating going on here so why blast everybody about it? If that's not acceptable, then how about giving other browsers some press time too? Opera's a great example. It's ahead of Mozilla UI wise, plus it's the best browser you can get for the Linux based Zaurus, and it works with Symbian so modern cell phones can use it.
C'mon guys, the pro-Mozilla zealousy is nauseating. I know you want IE to have some competition again, heck I want that too, but don't put all your eggs in one basket.
"Yeah because wherefore is in such common use in modern dialect. It's a pity that people think the word 'where' means 'where' instead of 'why' these days. Ignorant fools, they should get off their embiggened asses and study an extinct style of communication."
I resent being modded as flamebait for this comment. There's an important point to my little satire here. People who insult others for not being in touch with an extinct phrase in the english dialect sound like arrogant assholes.
He did. I'd like to add that of all the trolls I've heard against Outlook, you're the first to complain about UI.
"True, although you have to consider the total cost of educating the lusers who use Microsoft Outlook. Did you know that the average Microsoft shop spends more than $700 per seat on internal IT expenditures on support alone? That's not even counting the oppressively high cost of software."
I doubt that. I work where NG works, it's just pick up and use. It has always been that way. Our company's never spent money on any support issues with Outlook or related apps. Your 'statistic' is highly suspect.
"When you install Mozilla, there are absolutely no security vulnerabilities. When you install Outlook, there are 430 security vulnerabilities. Do you see a pattern?"
"Thanks. In the meantime, Mozilla is completely secure from the moment you do apt-get install mozilla."
Yes I do see a pattern. You should marry Mozilla. Meanwhile, as NG pointed out, Mozilla doesn't have near as many features at Outlook. No wonder it's virtually exploit free. (Incidentally, Mozilla is not 100% secure. Slashdot has stories about that once a month or so.) NG's right, we haven't had an Outlook related exploit bite us. Meanwhile, if we were to spontaneously change to Mozilla, we'd be left searching for other apps to pick up the work that Mozilla doesn't do. We'd lose money by switching to Mozilla.
"You do have apt on Windows, right? I wouldn't want to subject you to an inferior "wizard-based" install procedure. Hey look! Time to click "Next" again."
Windows installation of Mozilla: Put in CD, hit OK a couple of times.
Linux installation of Mozilla: 'apt-get install mozilla'? Right. An install that makes people look up the command to do it. Lovely. Remind me never to attempt to install Mozilla on Linux, you make it sound rather painful.
"Read my web site. I've contributed more to the Open Source Community than Bruce Perens and Robert X. Cringely combined."
That certainly explains your ignorant zealousy. Despite all of your contributions, you still behave as though you are more informed than you really are.
"Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. How does that Microshaft propaganda taste?"
Pretty lousy rebuttal to what NG said. He must have nailed you there. It's good you didn't argue, though.
"Name one thing that Outlook does that Mozilla (not "Netscape," you Microshaft shill) doesn't do."
NG knows more about this than I do, however I can give you a small list based on downloading and firing it up here.
- No calendar - No Todo list - No Notes - No Synchornization features with my PocketPC or phone - The filerting system is NOTHING like the Rules Wizard. It's good at blocking messages, but it's nothing like the Rules Wizard when it comes to being productive, such as automatically moving messages you send to somebody into a special folder. - No "test your settings" button when trying to log on. (normally I wouldn't mention that, but it was a pain in the ass getting Mozilla to talk to my mail server.) - I can't copy a message from one account to another. Very lame. - There doesn't appear to be any automatic archiving features worth mentioning. - No Spell Check ?!?
As strictly a mail client, Mozilla is okay. However, Outlook is a productivity suite, not just a mailbox. Mozilla is eclipsed by Outlook by a large margin here. Defend it all you like, but some of us make rather good use of Outlook's productivity features. You should watch over NG's shoulder using Outlook sometimes. He uses it with his PocketPC in a variety of ways with his art projects. He stores inspirations he's come across, schedules time to work on various stages of the project, takes notes about the details of the meshes (like the measurements of the object he's building in Lightwave), and he stores
"6. Microsoft Outlook requires you to install Microsoft Exchange server, which costs $20,000 per license and is also closed-source. It also runs exclusively under Windows "Server," which is just Windows NT Workstation 2000 (or whatever it's called) with a different registry entry."
Yeah because wherefore is in such common use in modern dialect. It's a pity that people think the word 'where' means 'where' instead of 'why' these days. Ignorant fools, they should get off their embiggened asses and study an extinct style of communication.
Slashdot Mirror
"At the end of the day, you've taken away jobs and hurt the economy. That's why this is a bad idea"
Same could be said for cracking down on drug dealers.
"Then it cost you $50 and half a cookie."
He's an optimist. He lost $50, but he got 100% more cookie than he wanted.
"Bahahah! I wish I had some goddamned mod points. Plus I wish I could see this in action. :)"
Ugh, no thanks. I've played this game with him, it's funny until you realize somebody's watching. That slowly shaking head just makes you want to seep into the floor below you.
"With the ever-increasing clock speed of our CPUs, what is the point of having a hardware MPEG decoder?"
Linux is a multi-tasking OS, right?
"You honestly think that simply living in Italy is enough to protect him? Have we learned nothing from reading Slashdot?"
I've learned that paranoia is an epidemic.
I think the most important thing is to not take anybody's red Swingline stapler.
Get a laptop with 802.11. Take it into the bathroom with you and you'll have an office with a door!
... he who smelt it, dealt it.
"LSD more often sparks insight or provides a novel point of view rather than causing outright delusions. Cocaine and amphetamines on the other hand can cause outright schizophreniform psychosis if taken for too long. This and the correlation between D2 receptor antagonism and antipsychotic potency is why schizophrenia is thought to be a largely dopaminergic disorder. Though it's becoming clear that glutaminergic and cholinergic systems play a significant role."
Could you please translate this for those of us that smoke crack?
"Your a total fucking idiot. "
It's "you're" a fucking idiot, you fucking idiot.
" Why the hell sould we support some commercial company when we have a free browser whose mission is to be truly cross platform and free for everyone? "
Already covered that in my last post, numbnuts.
" It's as simple as that. The fact that you think otherwise shows how out of touch you are with reality."
Opera's out to make money, which is a stronger motivator than "the common good" Star Trek crap you brought up. Besides, Opera's farther ahead than Mozilla UI wise, Mozilla could use the competition.
"Can't understand why we don't all want to shell out cash for a browser or support some company that may go under some day leaving us with nothing?"
If Mozilla improves because of Opera, and it'll have to, then if Opera were to tank we'd still be left with a much better browser.
"Again, what a fucking idiot you are. "
Funny, it's hard to feel like an idiot when the guy calling me it isn't making any effort to understand me.
... is to run Linux on it.
"It's solving complex problems and moving 11.8 terraflops, but the real interesting bit is that it's running Linux!"
"Maybe not beta releases, but then why should they, unless Slashdot starts an advertising service?"
You mean like they do with Mozilla?
"Nauseating"? What are you, an Opera developer?"
Ah yes, the "You like this thing that I'm ill informed about? You must work for them!" debate technique. Has anybody ever won an argument that way? Has anybody ever actually done anything but ruin their credibility that way? Usually this technique is employed when somebody correctly points out that Microsoft has an edge over an OSS project. Strange that it's Opera this time.
"How exactly are we, developers or otherwise, supposed to, or expected to put our "eggs" in a basket of proprietary software?"
Saying "don't put your eggs in one basket" cannot possibly be mistaken for "put your eggs in another basket". Did you even take a moment to read what I said? I was talking about diverisifcation.
"What do you suggest, that we offer to do work free of charge for Opera, or maybe just give them, a private company, money just for the hell of it?"
Heaven forbid the Mozilla Community should feel the need to compete and make a browser that's better for all. No no, it's much easier to pretend that alternatives like Opera don't exist so they can just keep puttering around at their snail's pace.
"Looks like a calendar to me."
Looks like a seperate install to me.
"Seeing the obligatory Opera troll post in every Mozilla thread is equally nausiating. :)"
;)
Give me some credit, at least I mentioned the Zaurus!
"In case you haven't noticed, Slashdot is biased towards open-source. Most slashdot readers are mainly interested in open source software."
Maybe I'm just not noticing it, but I'm not seeing "oo there's a new version number!' front page stories about much else than Mozilla. I'll leave the door open by saying that I'm not particularly attuned to it either. I just know that Mozilla is greatly overrated here.
I think Mozilla's open-sourcedness is greatly overrated as well. The important part is does it do browsing well? If the answer is yes, then how come Opera's not up there with it?
In any case, this topic's a bit tired. I can't change Slashdot. They act Open Source is so much better than proprietary closed standards. They don't realize that the pros and cons just shift around, they don't actually grow or decline. "Open Source Software is more secure!" "Closed Source Software has a better, more attuned UI." "Closed source software is buggier than Open Source Software." "Closed Source Software is a for-profit business, meaning they have strong incentive to fix it."
Etc.
I wish things weren't so black and white here. I think that's really what's bugging me, not Mozilla's hype so much.
"Mozilla has been done catching up to IE for a while now... Maybe my brain's failing me, but I don't think IE has built in Tab browsing, popup blocking, and a whole other list of things Mozilla has."
That doesn't mean they're not still playing catchup. Spell checking? Yeesh.
Truely great satire makes one wonder if the joke is really a joke. Kudos.
"Outlook has no value. Mozilla has only value."
The value of having virtually no features and perpetual development? Yeah I'm real impressed.
"MSIE isn't violating the TCP standard. It's using a feature of HTTP called Keep-Alive. The connections really do exist, even if you're using Apache or any other halfway decent http server."
Oops. You didn't bash MS. No +1, Informative for you. No -1, Overrated for him.
It's time. Give Mozilla it's own topic. How about mozilla.slashdot.org or altbrowsers.slashdot.org?
I wouldn't mind, but we're not talking about earth-shattering news here. There's more catching up than innovating going on here so why blast everybody about it? If that's not acceptable, then how about giving other browsers some press time too? Opera's a great example. It's ahead of Mozilla UI wise, plus it's the best browser you can get for the Linux based Zaurus, and it works with Symbian so modern cell phones can use it.
C'mon guys, the pro-Mozilla zealousy is nauseating. I know you want IE to have some competition again, heck I want that too, but don't put all your eggs in one basket.
"Yeah because wherefore is in such common use in modern dialect. It's a pity that people think the word 'where' means 'where' instead of 'why' these days. Ignorant fools, they should get off their embiggened asses and study an extinct style of communication."
I resent being modded as flamebait for this comment. There's an important point to my little satire here. People who insult others for not being in touch with an extinct phrase in the english dialect sound like arrogant assholes.
"Pleasant? Define "pleasant."
He did. I'd like to add that of all the trolls I've heard against Outlook, you're the first to complain about UI.
"True, although you have to consider the total cost of educating the lusers who use Microsoft Outlook. Did you know that the average Microsoft shop spends more than $700 per seat on internal IT expenditures on support alone? That's not even counting the oppressively high cost of software."
I doubt that. I work where NG works, it's just pick up and use. It has always been that way. Our company's never spent money on any support issues with Outlook or related apps. Your 'statistic' is highly suspect.
"When you install Mozilla, there are absolutely no security vulnerabilities. When you install Outlook, there are 430 security vulnerabilities. Do you see a pattern?"
"Thanks. In the meantime, Mozilla is completely secure from the moment you do apt-get install mozilla."
Yes I do see a pattern. You should marry Mozilla. Meanwhile, as NG pointed out, Mozilla doesn't have near as many features at Outlook. No wonder it's virtually exploit free. (Incidentally, Mozilla is not 100% secure. Slashdot has stories about that once a month or so.) NG's right, we haven't had an Outlook related exploit bite us. Meanwhile, if we were to spontaneously change to Mozilla, we'd be left searching for other apps to pick up the work that Mozilla doesn't do. We'd lose money by switching to Mozilla.
"You do have apt on Windows, right? I wouldn't want to subject you to an inferior "wizard-based" install procedure. Hey look! Time to click "Next" again."
Windows installation of Mozilla: Put in CD, hit OK a couple of times.
Linux installation of Mozilla: 'apt-get install mozilla'? Right. An install that makes people look up the command to do it. Lovely. Remind me never to attempt to install Mozilla on Linux, you make it sound rather painful.
"Read my web site. I've contributed more to the Open Source Community than Bruce Perens and Robert X. Cringely combined."
That certainly explains your ignorant zealousy. Despite all of your contributions, you still behave as though you are more informed than you really are.
"Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. How does that Microshaft propaganda taste?"
Pretty lousy rebuttal to what NG said. He must have nailed you there. It's good you didn't argue, though.
"Name one thing that Outlook does that Mozilla (not "Netscape," you Microshaft shill) doesn't do."
NG knows more about this than I do, however I can give you a small list based on downloading and firing it up here.
- No calendar
- No Todo list
- No Notes
- No Synchornization features with my PocketPC or phone
- The filerting system is NOTHING like the Rules Wizard. It's good at blocking messages, but it's nothing like the Rules Wizard when it comes to being productive, such as automatically moving messages you send to somebody into a special folder.
- No "test your settings" button when trying to log on. (normally I wouldn't mention that, but it was a pain in the ass getting Mozilla to talk to my mail server.)
- I can't copy a message from one account to another. Very lame.
- There doesn't appear to be any automatic archiving features worth mentioning.
- No Spell Check ?!?
As strictly a mail client, Mozilla is okay. However, Outlook is a productivity suite, not just a mailbox. Mozilla is eclipsed by Outlook by a large margin here. Defend it all you like, but some of us make rather good use of Outlook's productivity features. You should watch over NG's shoulder using Outlook sometimes. He uses it with his PocketPC in a variety of ways with his art projects. He stores inspirations he's come across, schedules time to work on various stages of the project, takes notes about the details of the meshes (like the measurements of the object he's building in Lightwave), and he stores
"6. Microsoft Outlook requires you to install Microsoft Exchange server, which costs $20,000 per license and is also closed-source. It also runs exclusively under Windows "Server," which is just Windows NT Workstation 2000 (or whatever it's called) with a different registry entry."
Why do the uninformed have the loudest voice?
"funny sig! was that a reference to Demolition Man?"
Yep! Though I still haven't found a way to work Stallone's swearing to get some make-shift toilet paper into it.
"Basic literacy, you know?"
Yeah because wherefore is in such common use in modern dialect. It's a pity that people think the word 'where' means 'where' instead of 'why' these days. Ignorant fools, they should get off their embiggened asses and study an extinct style of communication.
Gee, imagine picking an unusual example for Linux and using that to thwart me. Never mind that you completely skipped over my point.
Oh well. If you Linux dipshits want to run around thinking you're more secure than you really are, go right ahead. Go beg for your rooting.